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View Full Version : Another Thread about Green not making the Pro Bowl.


blsilks
12-27-2004, 07:53 AM
Once again I would just like to complain about Trent Green not making the Pro Bowl. Trent Green has completed 336 of 503 passes for 4218 yards with a completion percentage of 66.8%. He has thrown 26 touchdown passes and only 13 interceptions(0 interceptions would be better). This all gives him a QB rating of 99.2. This is all a conspiracy and I think it just proves that everything we see in the NFL is all choreographed.

BigMeatballDave
12-27-2004, 08:01 AM
Eh, someone gets hosed every year...

Amnorix
12-27-2004, 08:01 AM
This is all a conspiracy and I think it just proves that everything we see in the NFL is all choreographed.

:hmmm: :spock:

Please tell me you're kidding. Or do you really believe that there is a vast conspiracy involving hundreds, if not thousands, of people that have all managed to keep silent about it all these years??

blsilks
12-27-2004, 08:08 AM
:hmmm: :spock:

Please tell me you're kidding. Or do you really believe that there is a vast conspiracy involving hundreds, if not thousands, of people that have all managed to keep silent about it all these years??

I am a natural born smarta$$ and I apologize if its hard to catch my sarcasm.

Fat Elvis
12-27-2004, 08:24 AM
Eh, someone gets hosed every year...

Being Chiefs fans, we're just used to it.

Coach
12-27-2004, 08:25 AM
Well I am a bit upset that he didn't get in, but hey, everyone gets hosed every now and then. But really, either he makes it or not, it's for darn sure that he's deftinaly a pro-bowler in most Chiefs fans' heart and mind.

Great season Trent. Just a damn shame it didn't work out the way we hoped for.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 08:26 AM
Once again I would just like to complain about Trent Green not making the Pro Bowl. Trent Green has completed 336 of 503 passes for 4218 yards with a completion percentage of 66.8%. He has thrown 26 touchdown passes and only 13 interceptions(0 interceptions would be better). This all gives him a QB rating of 99.2. This is all a conspiracy and I think it just proves that everything we see in the NFL is all choreographed.


The only stat that matters is that he's a QB for a sub .500 team in his conference. Nuff said.

RedNeckRaider
12-27-2004, 08:27 AM
All Pro is the only award that really matters, the Pro-Bowl is more of a popularity contest IMO

Coach
12-27-2004, 08:28 AM
All Pro is the only award that really matters, the Pro-Bowl is more of a popularity contest IMO

Pretty much agree on what he said. Although Trent won't get the All-Pro, since most likely it'll go to Peyton Manning or someone else.

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 09:20 AM
The only stat that matters is that he's a QB for a sub .500 team in his conference. Nuff said.

You mean like Chad Johnson, Willie Anderson, Jason Taylor, TORY JAMES, Joe Horn, Orlando Pace, Olin Kreutz, Jason Witten, Tiki Barber, Bertrand Berry, Derrick Brooks, La'Roi Glover and many, many more?

Team record matters for NOTHING. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest, plain and simple...

Kclee
12-27-2004, 09:24 AM
The only stat that matters is that he's a QB for a sub .500 team in his conference. Nuff said.

That would make sense if no other Chiefs made it. Yeah, Roaf would have made it if the team wouldn't have been sub .500 in his con... oh, nevermind.

bobbything
12-27-2004, 09:29 AM
At least Mike Vick made the Pro Bowl instead of Brett Favre and Jake Delhomme.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 09:30 AM
You mean like Chad Johnson, Willie Anderson, Jason Taylor, TORY JAMES, Joe Horn, Orlando Pace, Olin Kreutz, Jason Witten, Tiki Barber, Bertrand Berry, Derrick Brooks, La'Roi Glover and many, many more?

Team record matters for NOTHING. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest, plain and simple...

How many of those guys were QB of a 13-3 team last season (and were in the PB) only to find themselves sub .500 and considered a huge disappointment this season???

Some of the AFC players will make the PB due to popularity contest and some will make it because they've lead their teams to success...ala Drew Brees.

As far as NFC players making it with sub .500 records...uh, have you CHECKED the NFC standings lately???

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 09:32 AM
That would make sense if no other Chiefs made it. Yeah, Roaf would have made it if the team wouldn't have been sub .500 in his con... oh, nevermind.

see response #13.

Trent Green did not get robbed, jobbed, or hosed...he simply did not deliver to the level he did his LAST PB season and as most QBs get the credit they also get the blame.

From what I understand he's an alternate so inspite of the fact the team under achieved he's still been recognized as having great success.

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 09:37 AM
How many of those guys were QB of a 13-3 team last season (and were in the PB) only to find themselves sub .500 and considered a huge disappointment this season???

Some of the AFC players will make the PB due to popularity contest and some will make it because they've lead their teams to success...ala Drew Brees.

As far as NFC players making it with sub .500 records...uh, have you CHECKED the NFC standings lately???

Anybody that actually WATCHES football knows that 1) Green is about as responsible for the Chiefs losing as William Bartee is for the Chiefs winning and 2) Drew Brees isn't winning games for the Chargers, the defense is. Brees doesn't make mistakes, and that's about it. That's why Green has 1000 more yards and almost a YARD AND A HALF more per play.

Face it, Pro Bowl voting comes down to people like you -- they don't really know anything about football.

Kclee
12-27-2004, 10:15 AM
Trent Green did not get robbed, jobbed, or hosed...he simply did not deliver to the level he did his LAST PB season and as most QBs get the credit they also get the blame.


He did not deliver to the same level? With one game left to play, he only needs 100+ yards, and 11 comp., to break the all time Chiefs record.(which was not held by him from his '03 stats). Plus he has done this w/o Priest for half the year. And have you seen our WR's? And a QB rating over 90 for 3 years in a row.(only done a handfull of times before). You have no clue, NO CLUE. If we were playing the board game CLUE, you would have no cards in your hand, you wouldn't know if it was Prof. Plum, or the rope, or the Hall. The dice wouldn't even be in your hands to start your turn, and your back would be to the board, that's how much you don't have a clue. :D

ChiTown
12-27-2004, 10:17 AM
Anybody that actually WATCHES football knows that 1) Green is about as responsible for the Chiefs losing as William Bartee is for the Chiefs winning and 2) Drew Brees isn't winning games for the Chargers, the defense is. Brees doesn't make mistakes, and that's about it. That's why Green has 1000 more yards and almost a YARD AND A HALF more per play.

Face it, Pro Bowl voting comes down to people like you -- they don't really know anything about football.

:clap:

Excellent post.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 10:32 AM
Anybody that actually WATCHES football knows that 1) Green is about as responsible for the Chiefs losing as William Bartee is for the Chiefs winning and 2) Drew Brees isn't winning games for the Chargers, the defense is. Brees doesn't make mistakes, and that's about it. That's why Green has 1000 more yards and almost a YARD AND A HALF more per play.

Face it, Pro Bowl voting comes down to people like you -- they don't really know anything about football.


All of which proves my point...

his one stat that is waning is the sub .500 7-8 record. You must remember much of the voting occured DURING the past four weeks and the winning streak but was based on results PREVIOUS to the four game winning streak.

Trent Green did not make the PB because the Chiefs have not had a good season prior to the past four games. End of story.

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 10:41 AM
All of which proves my point...

his one stat that is waning is the sub .500 7-8 record. You must remember much of the voting occured DURING the past four weeks and the winning streak but was based on results PREVIOUS to the four game winning streak.

Trent Green did not make the PB because the Chiefs have not had a good season prior to the past four games. End of story.

Proves your point? You're 100% clueless.

The Super Bowl is about TEAM achievement.

The Pro Bowl is supposed to be about INDIVIDUAL achievement.

Face it, Trent Green's numbers are far and away better than any other QB in the AFC, save Manning. The fact that he didn't get in proves yet again that the majority of Pro Bowl voters are clueless.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 10:49 AM
Proves your point? You're 100% clueless.

The Super Bowl is about TEAM achievement.

The Pro Bowl is supposed to be about INDIVIDUAL achievement.

Face it, Trent Green's numbers are far and away better than any other QB in the AFC, save Manning. The fact that he didn't get in proves yet again that the majority of Pro Bowl voters are clueless.


uh, YOU are arguing mutual exclusiveness, not I. I think one cannot happen without the other. I will not be surprised if Green's accomplishments don't merit All Pro achievements either considering the Chiefs were a SB contender who finished no better than .500. How often have previous QBs with the same situations finished with top individual honors during disappointing TEAM seasons?

And how was it that Gannon received third place PB honors on an 8-8 team his first year as a Raider?????


Because his team was previously a 4-12 team but finished 8-8. :hmmm: They didn't make the playoffs and didn't have a winning record but they improved their record 100% rather than getting worse.

bobbything
12-27-2004, 10:50 AM
Trent Green did not make the PB because the Chiefs have not had a good season prior to the past four games. End of story.
If Holmes were to have remained healthy odds are that he would have made the Pro Bowl. He was putting up good numbers regardless of the team record.

That being said, you can't argue with the QB selections. When all things are equal with the top QB's, you have to take the player with the better record. Which is why I'm surprised that Vick made it....

Hell, Brian Griese has passed for more yards, more TD's, and fewer INT's in fewer games. Favre is 2nd in the NFC in yards and 3rd in TD's. Plus, his team clinched the division as well. There are 10 QB's in the NFC that are have a better year than Mike Vick.

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 11:12 AM
uh, YOU are arguing mutual exclusiveness, not I. I think one cannot happen without the other. I will not be surprised if Green's accomplishments don't merit All Pro achievements either considering the Chiefs were a SB contender who finished no better than .500. How often have previous QBs with the same situations finished with top individual honors during disappointing TEAM seasons?

And how was it that Gannon received third place PB honors on an 8-8 team his first year as a Raider?????


Because his team was previously a 4-12 team but finished 8-8. :hmmm: They didn't make the playoffs and didn't have a winning record but they improved their record 100% rather than getting worse.

There are many examples of what you speak -- guys going to the Pro Bowl with mediocre teams when the team was horrible the year before.

There are also many examples of the converse.

Only 2 conclusions exist:

1) The standard of using wins-losses as a gauge of pro bowl worthiness is not applied equally to all players.

2) There is no win-loss standard. What you speak of is a mere coincidence.

In either case, Trent Green deserved to go the Pro Bowl.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 11:15 AM
There are many examples of what you speak -- guys going to the Pro Bowl with mediocre teams when the team was horrible the year before.

There are also many examples of the converse.

Only 2 conclusions exist:

1) The standard of using wins-losses as a gauge of pro bowl worthiness is not applied equally to all players.

2) There is no win-loss standard. What you speak of is a mere coincidence.

In either case, Trent Green deserved to go the Pro Bowl.

You can argue Trent Green deserved to go to the PB based on personal stats but if there is a tie (between deserving folks) and the determining factor ends up 'does his PERSONAL success equate to TEAM success' then I think he loses...

which, BTW, is the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT I made when people (perhaps yourself) where :deevee: that Gannon did not deserve to go to the PB because he played for an 8-8 team and that his personal stats meant squat... :hmmm:

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 11:19 AM
You can argue Trent Green deserved to go to the PB based on personal stats but if there is a tie (between deserving folks) and the determining factor ends up 'does his PERSONAL success equate to TEAM success' then I think he loses...

which, BTW, is the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT I made when people (perhaps yourself) where :deevee: that Gannon did not deserve to go to the PB because he played for an 8-8 team and that his personal stats meant squat... :hmmm:

If that argument was made vs. Gannon, then those people were wrong. I wasn't one of them. The Pro Bowl should be about personal achievement.

As for there being a "tie" with the tiebreaker going to a player's team's win/loss record, I can agree with that. There's one problem.

There's NO TIE. Trent Green's numbers are better than Tom Brady's and FAR AND AWAY better than Drew Brees'.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 11:22 AM
If that argument was made vs. Gannon, then those people were wrong. I wasn't one of them. The Pro Bowl should be about personal achievement.

As for there being a "tie" with the tiebreaker going to a player's team's win/loss record, I can agree with that. There's one problem.

There's NO TIE. Trent Green's numbers are better than Tom Brady's and FAR AND AWAY better than Drew Brees'.


But one of his numbers is NOT far and away better...

and that is why he's not going.

Which brings me back to my original point. Brees and Brady's lesser personal numbers had more team impact than Green's better personal numbers.

WilliamTheIrish
12-27-2004, 11:22 AM
As stated in the 3 previous Trent Green Pro Bowl threads...

Nobody cares. It's the Pro Bowl. No blitzing. No game planning.

Only Rich Gannon's biggest, freakiest fan cares that somebody is a "Two time Pro Bowl MVP."

You may now carry on.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 11:25 AM
As stated in the 3 previous Trent Green Pro Bowl threads...

Nobody cares. It's the Pro Bowl. No blitzing. No game planning.

Only Rich Gannon's biggest, freakiest fan cares that somebody is a "Two time Pro Bowl MVP."

You may now carry on.

Come salary negotiation time, it matters. The game itself sucks but any major honors you get gain you leverage. Thus, it's not a small matter.

Kclee
12-27-2004, 11:34 AM
But one of his numbers is NOT far and away better...

and that is why he's not going.

Which brings me back to my original point. Brees and Brady's lesser personal numbers had more team impact than Green's better personal numbers.

Had more of a team impact? Who's offense is is higher? The Pat's, Chargers, or Chiefs? It's the Chiefs D that is the cause of the bad record. He leads the second best O in the league. What more can he do. He doesn't have Mannings weapons.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 11:40 AM
Had more of a team impact? Who's offense is is higher? The Pat's, Chargers, or Chiefs? It's the Chiefs D that is the cause of the bad record. He leads the second best O in the league. What more can he do. He doesn't have Mannings weapons.


Sigh.

Your questions seem to indicate the TEAM nature of the personal success part of the equation. Thus, it makes sense that Brees, Brady, and Manning are going to the PB and Trent Green is not. His personal success did not equate to team success where theirs did.

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 11:45 AM
But one of his numbers is NOT far and away better...

and that is why he's not going.

Which brings me back to my original point. Brees and Brady's lesser personal numbers had more team impact than Green's better personal numbers.

Your original point is ABSOLUTE bunk.

You haven't watched a single Charger game, other than when they played your beloved Raiders, have you?

If you had, you wouldn't have mentioned Brees and "team impact" in the same sentence. Brees isn't even the 5th most valuable player to his TEAM...some people reap extreme benefit from being in the right place at the right time. Say "hello" to Drew Brees.

bobbything
12-27-2004, 11:47 AM
What in the hell are you two arguing about?? One of you says that it's about your impact on the team, the other says it's based on individual numbers. Here's the reality...

Typically, the Pro Bowl is about individual numbers (look at Brady getting snubbed last year). But this year, it seems to be more influenced by team record (look at the NFC).

Since this is the case this year, Green doesn't (didn't) go. Favre isn't going. Delhomme isn't going. Who cares? It's the Pro Bowl for chrissakes.

Maybe it's time for the both of you to agree to disagree.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 11:48 AM
Your original point is ABSOLUTE bunk.

You haven't watched a single Charger game, other than when they played your beloved Raiders, have you?

If you had, you wouldn't have mentioned Brees and "team impact" in the same sentence. Brees isn't even the 5th most valuable player to his TEAM...some people reap extreme benefit from being in the right place at the right time. Say "hello" to Drew Brees.

Well there are obviously LOTS of people who disagree with you. I'm sure that is not a first... :p

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 11:48 AM
What in the hell are you two arguing about?? One of you says that it's about your impact on the team, the other says it's based on individual numbers. Here's the reality...

Typically, the Pro Bowl is about individual numbers (look at Brady getting snubbed last year). But this year, it seems to be more influenced by team record (look at the NFC).

Since this is the case this year, Green doesn't (didn't) go. Favre isn't going. Delhomme isn't going. Who cares? It's the Pro Bowl for chrissakes.

Maybe it's time for the both of you to agree to disagree.


Uh, I'm saying it's about BOTH!!!! And when the voting is done fairly it SHOULD be about BOTH because no one player can excel without the work of those around him.

bobbything
12-27-2004, 11:58 AM
no one player can excel without the work of those around him.
Well, I disagree with that statement but I don't want to hijack this thread.

The bottom line is that the Pro Bowl is stupid. Well, scratch that...playing the Pro Bowl is stupid. And this argument isn't going anywhere.

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 12:06 PM
Well, I disagree with that statement but I don't want to hijack this thread.

The bottom line is that the Pro Bowl is stupid. Well, scratch that...playing the Pro Bowl is stupid. And this argument isn't going anywhere.

You can disagree but even Shane Lechlar (if he's being honest) would admit his PB selection was dependent on crappy or inconsistent offensive play by those around him. If he wasn't consistently on the field to punt 60 yard bombs then his stats would not be padded and his performance would go un-noticed.

Dartgod
12-27-2004, 12:50 PM
...some people reap extreme benefit from being in the right place at the right time. Say "hello" to Drew Brees.
*cough*Trent Dilfer*cough*

memyselfI
12-27-2004, 12:51 PM
*cough*Trent Dilfer*cough*


And his lack of personal achievement did not go un-noticed...

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 01:54 PM
Well, I disagree with that statement but I don't want to hijack this thread.

The bottom line is that the Pro Bowl is stupid. Well, scratch that...playing the Pro Bowl is stupid. And this argument isn't going anywhere.

What's stupid is butting into a thread that you obviously care nothing about.

If you don't like the topic, go somewheres else...

htismaqe
12-27-2004, 01:56 PM
Well there are obviously LOTS of people who disagree with you. I'm sure that is not a first... :p

No you're not the first.

I'd be willing to bet that 75% of "NFL fans" disagree with me. Of course, those same 75% think Tom Brady is a good QB because he's "hot" and Ray Lewis is the best LB in the NFL because he does his stupid spastic dance before games...

Face it, the average NFL fan (read: almost nobody that spends time posting here) has the attention span of a gnat and the brains to match. That's why the Pro Bowl is a farce...

Ari Chi3fs
12-27-2004, 02:04 PM
perhaps he will try harder next year.

XXXshogunXXX
12-27-2004, 10:28 PM
Your original point is ABSOLUTE bunk.

You haven't watched a single Charger game, other than when they played your beloved Raiders, have you?

If you had, you wouldn't have mentioned Brees and "team impact" in the same sentence. Brees isn't even the 5th most valuable player to his TEAM...some people reap extreme benefit from being in the right place at the right time. Say "hello" to Drew Brees.


the 5th best? behind who. Ask any Charger fan, Brees is a big reason the team is winning. The team was losing before he got his shit together. He was a game away from being pulled. Then Rivers is announced as the 2nd string qb, moving ahead of flutie, Brees reacts with winning the next 9 out of 10 games.. Tomlinson was slowed by a groin injury during hte beginning of the season, so he could not carry the team. Brees and co kept shit together and became the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. How much of that is Brees...more than 5th best player on the team.






and with that...he'll probably be gone in 2006.

Logical
12-27-2004, 10:31 PM
see response #13.

Trent Green did not get robbed, jobbed, or hosed...he simply did not deliver to the level he did his LAST PB season and as most QBs get the credit they also get the blame.

From what I understand he's an alternate so inspite of the fact the team under achieved he's still been recognized as having great success.Damn I have to agree with D.enise.