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Alphaman
12-28-2004, 10:55 AM
I've rethought the offseason. I've tried to keep in mind Vermeil's history with young players and Carl's conservatism in free agency, along with reports that defensive changes will not be wholesale.

Given those thoughts, I see these starters still in the starting lineup next year: Hicks, Dalton, Sims, Allen, Fujita, Mitchell, Wesley, Warfield. That's 8 so 3 new starters. Assuming we replace Woods, McCleon, and Barber here are the 3 guys I'd like us to get: Julian Peterson, Gary Baxter and Dwight Smith. These would be serious talent upgrades. Peterson is iffy because he's coming off an achilles injury and he was franchised by the 49ers last year. I'm thinking that because of the injury they won't franchise him.

I've also rethought the offense. We can't just stand pat. As you know, I've been touting getting a WR. I've decided we should put that on the backburner depending on what the Rams and the Seahawks do. If the Rams let Orlando Pace go to FA and/or the Seahawks do likewise with Walter Jones, the Chiefs should sign one of them, even if Roaf does not retire. The O-Line is the grease that makes this engine go. We will need to replace Roaf at some time, either this offseason or next offseason. One of those two guys could fill the bill. If Roaf is back next season, then Pace/Jones could be the RT for a year (while still making left tackle money). With Kennison's performance as well as the talent displayed by Parker and Horn, and the potential of Wilson, Smith and Boerigter, we may be able to take a chance on those WRs and get a replacement anchor at LT.

So I say, Peterson, Baxter, Smith and Pace or Jones. If money is left, then David Givens from NE and Kendrell Bell from Pittsburgh.

If we could accomplish those 4 players in FA, then I'd go CB and DE in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft.

Also, I sincerely hope that Vermeil takes a long term approach to this game against SD. There is no way that Morton should play. More real time game reps for Parker, Wilson, and Smith is the way to go. I'd also like to see Battle get some playing time.

BigMeatballDave
12-28-2004, 11:02 AM
Doesn't Pace want a truck load of money?

Alphaman
12-28-2004, 11:08 AM
Doesn't Pace want a truck load of money?

Yes. To get an elite LT that will be their for several years, you are going to pay a truck load of money. I really don't think the cap will be an issue, getting Lamar to agree to give the signing bonuses may be.

jiveturkey
12-28-2004, 11:21 AM
Gary Baxter gets burned on a regular basis.

There has to be another option at CB.

Deberg_1990
12-28-2004, 11:25 AM
DO we really have to keep Hicks?? WTF?? Im tired of seeing this turd draining Lamar's checkbook.

jiveturkey
12-28-2004, 11:27 AM
DO we really have to keep Hicks?? WTF?? Im tired of seeing this turd draining Lamar's checkbook.We don't have to but the priorities have to be at LB, CB and FS.

whoman69
12-28-2004, 11:39 AM
What on the richter scale would be the response on the board if they decide to stand pat again. Don't see how they can do so, Woods/Barber/McCleon obviously need to be replaced. Harts may be an option, but still not confident with his tackling ability. They may look to keep Barber or go with Fox. And you know that William Bartee seems to have an endless stock of do overs.

jiveturkey
12-28-2004, 11:47 AM
Could they play Barber at MLB like they did with Edwards in the past?

Hoover
12-28-2004, 11:47 AM
There is no way that Hicks keeps his starting gig.

I think Woods will stay and we will have a new DE, LB, and CB

Dave Lane
12-28-2004, 11:47 AM
Yes. To get an elite Lawrence Taylor that will be their for several years, you are going to pay a truck load of money. I really don't think the cap will be an issue, getting Lamar to agree to give the signing bonuses may be.

Pace wants cap breaking money $20 million signing bonus. NO WAY. If we signed him I'd pull me own head off!

We need D!

Dave

Count Zarth
12-28-2004, 11:52 AM
There is no way that Hicks keeps his starting gig.

I think Woods will stay and we will have a new DE, LB, and CB

Hicks and Woods are both Goooonther boys. I'd be shocked if they are replaced. :rolleyes:

el borracho
12-28-2004, 01:15 PM
I will probably throw an actual fit if we don't cut Holliday, McCleon and Hicks. They are absolutely horrible. Beyond that, we need to figure out if Woods and Barber have anything left or not. They have both played well in the past but were disasters this season.
If Carl doesn't sign at least 1 CB and 1 LB in free agency this offseason he has failed. We need a DE in the first two rounds and either a LB or a CB in the first two rounds.

OldTownChief
12-28-2004, 01:24 PM
Has anybody seen any articles on what Gun actually wants to do about this D? I'd be interested to hear his take on it. I'd also think he would need to be trusted by Peterson to do whatever the hell he wants to do about it. Or is he in denial along with Dick?

jiveturkey
12-28-2004, 01:36 PM
I will probably throw an actual fit if we don't cut Holliday, McCleon and Hicks. They are absolutely horrible. Beyond that, we need to figure out if Woods and Barber have anything left or not. They have both played well in the past but were disasters this season.
If Carl doesn't sign at least 1 CB and 1 LB in free agency this offseason he has failed. We need a DE in the first two rounds and either a LB or a CB in the first two rounds.Holliday has to be a cut, he has a large roster bonus due in March.

Alphaman
12-29-2004, 03:36 PM
Could they play Barber at MLB like they did with Edwards in the past?

Absolutely not. Barber is the worst tackling LBer we have.

Alphaman
12-29-2004, 03:37 PM
Pace wants cap breaking money $20 million signing bonus. NO WAY. If we signed him I'd pull me own head off!

We need D!

Dave

We'll have to pay a large signing bonus to get him, but it won't be $20M. Pace fired his agent that has been asking for that.

Mr. Laz
12-29-2004, 03:45 PM
Yes. To get an elite Lawrence Taylor that will be their for several years, you are going to pay a truck load of money. I really don't think the cap will be an issue, getting Lamar to agree to give the signing bonuses may be.

if they chiefs didnt have the financial resources to sign free agents last year why in world do you think they have the money to sign a bank busters like Orlando pace or Walter Jones?


not saying i disagree with your plan, but since when have we ever given up HUGE money to a player that wasn't already on our team?

Mr. Laz
12-29-2004, 03:47 PM
I will probably throw an actual fit if we don't cut Holliday, McCleon and Hicks. They are absolutely horrible. Beyond that, we need to figure out if Woods and Barber have anything left or not. They have both played well in the past but were disasters this season.
If Carl doesn't sign at least 1 CB and 1 LB in free agency this offseason he has failed. We need a DE in the first two rounds and either a LB or a CB in the first two rounds.

we are not cutting Hicks ... we just gave him a brand new schspankity contract last year.


i'd say cutting Woods is very much a long shot as well

LiL stumppy
12-29-2004, 03:48 PM
All that will cost us way to much money.We need OLB and a CB,and maybe a DE.

bricks
12-29-2004, 03:53 PM
Hicks and Woods are both Goooonther boys. I'd be shocked if they are replaced. :rolleyes:

who gives a sh*t if there Guns boys. If they can't play, they need to be replaced. It's that simple. i don't know what to think everytime I hear people say "no were not gonna get rid of these guys cause their Guns guys". Gunther is not Eric Hicks's or Jerome Woods's father. and even if he was, he should tell them to pack there bags and move out on there own.

Frankie
12-29-2004, 04:13 PM
We'll have to pay a large signing bonus to get him, but it won't be $20M. Pace fired his agent that has been asking for that.
:thumb:

Frankie
12-29-2004, 04:18 PM
if they chiefs didnt have the financial resources to sign free agents last year why in world do you think they have the money to sign a bank busters like Orlando pace or Walter Jones?


not saying i disagree with your plan, but since when have we ever given up HUGE money to a player that wasn't already on our team?

How about Steelers' OT Barrett Brooks? Is he a good option? Boy seems to me Pitt has the best list of FAs to raid.

StcChief
12-29-2004, 04:20 PM
Doesn't Pace want a truck load of money?

Pace has been Mr. $$$ since being drafted #1 by STL.
Good player but not sure about his team ethic (not a Chiefs guy).

Never plays preseason.

I'd look elsewhere.

Luzap
12-29-2004, 05:02 PM
Darren,

I've heard that the Chiefs have basically given up on Battle. He didn't even suit up for at least one of the last two games.

I hope this is wrong and he can develope, but it doesn't sound good.

Luz
thinking cb, lb, and rt in that order...

Bowser
12-29-2004, 05:15 PM
I've got one wordfor anybody who thinks they are going to go out and make a big splash in free agency.......


Profile.

HemiEd
12-29-2004, 06:07 PM
Darren,

I've heard that the Chiefs have basically given up on Battle. He didn't even suit up for at least one of the last two games.

I hope this is wrong and he can develope, but it doesn't sound good.

Luz
thinking cb, lb, and rt in that order...

I think they are correct at giving up on him, did you watch him play? The game looks too big for him to me, he got burned so many times that he was the barbecue.

chief52
12-29-2004, 07:41 PM
I am pretty sure I read Petersen will not even be ready at the start of next season. They are not sure when he will be available, but thinking is it will be mid season.

Frankie
12-29-2004, 09:09 PM
I am pretty sure I read Petersen will not even be ready at the start of next season. They are not sure when he will be available, but thinking is it will be mid season.
Good. Let his assistant do the drafting and FA recruiting. Can't be any worse.

Frankie
12-29-2004, 09:10 PM
Good. Let his assistant do the drafting and FA recruiting. Can't be any worse.
OK, I'm joking.

2bikemike
12-29-2004, 09:23 PM
I am pretty sure I read Petersen will not even be ready at the start of next season. They are not sure when he will be available, but thinking is it will be mid season.

The only thing I remember about Peterson is the way he mugged TG all game long and got away with it.

Is he really that good? His stats don't impress me. He is very low in tackles averages about 47/yr. He has had 5 int's in 5 years.

Alphaman
12-29-2004, 10:26 PM
if they chiefs didnt have the financial resources to sign free agents last year why in world do you think they have the money to sign a bank busters like Orlando pace or Walter Jones?


not saying i disagree with your plan, but since when have we ever given up HUGE money to a player that wasn't already on our team?


I've been saying all along that this offseason will come down to Lamar being willing to give up the cash to make it happen. IMHO, this is the offseason to really try to set the team up for next season and the future. We have cap room and we have a lot of draft picks. The Cap won't be an issue....CASH will be. Carl needs to be politicing Lamar for CASH this offseason.

Alphaman
12-29-2004, 10:31 PM
Pace has been Mr. $$$ since being drafted #1 by STL.
Good player but not sure about his team ethic (not a Chiefs guy).

Never plays preseason.

I'd look elsewhere.

That's a bit unfair for him and Walter Jones. The owners have the franchise tag to use. It has been used on those 2 guys for about 4 years straight now. That basically keeps those guys from shopping themselves and getting the best market deal they can get. Their only recourse is to negotiate a deal with the only team they can who holds most of the cards. The only leverage they have is to not sign the one year tender while they negotiate a new deal. The would be stupid to practice with out a contract. Teams can't claim it's a business and then talk about team ethic. The business aspect and the on the field aspect are very separate in the NFL.

Alphaman
12-29-2004, 10:34 PM
Darren,

I've heard that the Chiefs have basically given up on Battle. He didn't even suit up for at least one of the last two games.

I hope this is wrong and he can develope, but it doesn't sound good.

Luz
thinking cb, lb, and rt in that order...

That would be out of character for Vermeil and contrary to what he's said. It would also be premature. He's got too much potential to quit on right now. He's only in his 2nd year. We've got another full offseason to work with him on technique. His biggest problem is technique, not talent or instincts.

Alphaman
12-29-2004, 10:39 PM
The only thing I remember about Peterson is the way he mugged TG all game long and got away with it.

Is he really that good? His stats don't impress me. He is very low in tackles averages about 47/yr. He has had 5 int's in 5 years.

He had about 75 tackles per year in 2002 and 2003. He was on pace for about 80 this season before the injury. That is good productivity.

Frankie
12-30-2004, 10:34 AM
That would be out of character for Vermeil and contrary to what he's said. It would also be premature. He's got too much potential to quit on right now. He's only in his 2nd year. We've got another full offseason to work with him on technique. His biggest problem is technique, not talent or instincts.

NFL Europe?

Alphaman
12-30-2004, 11:15 AM
NFL Europe?

Not a bad idea.