PDA

View Full Version : SBC trying to stop affordable broadband in Louisiana ! Yeah !! Damn evil government!


warpaint99
01-04-2005, 11:11 PM
THIS IS WHY WE NEED MUNICIPLE BROADBAND FIBER TO THE CURB. WE NEED MORE COMPETITION AND FASTER SPEEDS.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2005-01-03-fiber-cover_x.htm#

Valiant
01-04-2005, 11:19 PM
Depending on how truthful the article is... If the city is going to pay to lay fiber and dig it in the ground then power to them.. but most of these local governments are just going to use the ones that the phone and cable companies spent millions on???

We had this debate before.. Would you really want a local government running your internet??? Even worse customer service and would be loss of hundreds of jobs because of it... They might be replaced but even worse pay..

It sounds nice on paper, but this would not work out over the long haul...

warpaint99
01-04-2005, 11:41 PM
Good thinking Valiant. Government run electric utilities, highways, water and other important projects just never seem to work . Hey if you knew anything about history , you would know that the government created the internet . But don't let facts cloud your thoughts.

We need sell out to private companies so they can monopolize and raise prices . Maybe we could get Bill Gates to run it. He's a genius , ya know !

Taco John
01-04-2005, 11:52 PM
I don't want my Internet service from the government.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 12:43 AM
till 1994 , the government has been the backbone and. NOT SBC or Time Warner or Cox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

I don't want robberbarons to run my utilities !

You can have your worthless expensive fuc*** Time Warner roadrunner or Everest.

Just keep these unethical businesses from lobbying and trying to ruin these projects.. If the public wants a network , then we should have one.

They already killed the project in KC.

Valiant
01-05-2005, 01:12 AM
till 1994 , the government has been the backbone and. NOT SBC or Time Warner or Cox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

I don't want robberbarons to run my utilities !

You can have your worthless expensive fuc*** Time Warner roadrunner or Everest.

Just keep these unethical businesses from lobbying and trying to ruin these projects.. If the public wants a network , then we should have one.

They already killed the project in KC.


Umm that article is useless... I am saying these companies spent billions country wide to run fiber throughout the country... And if you think the government is not unethical like buisnesses you need to go back to your fantasy world... We are talking broadband distribution, not 56k... You are just looking at what it costs you.. not at how this would effect the whole in short term or long term...

|Zach|
01-05-2005, 01:12 AM
I don't want the government to run this because I love these threads you make.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 01:21 AM
Umm that article is useless... I am saying these companies spent billions country wide to run fiber throughout the country... And if you think the government is not unethical like buisnesses you need to go back to your fantasy world... We are talking broadband distribution, not 56k... You are just looking at what it costs you.. not at how this would effect the whole in short term or long term...


How did those companies acquire those billions ? Bells were all monopolies that gouged the consumer . The cable companies are wicked.

Local governments can be elected and controlled atleast and wont rob us.

|Zach|
01-05-2005, 01:24 AM
I am not interested in the govt spending more money than it has to on something companies already provide...a service that has a great option where you don't buy it if you don't like it...

Miles
01-05-2005, 01:25 AM
How did those companies acquire those billions ? Bells were all monopolies that gouged the consumer . The cable companies are wicked.

Local governments can be elected and controlled atleast and wont rob us.

Do you wear bland, drab, olive colored clothing?

Miles
01-05-2005, 01:27 AM
KRAMER: You see kid, you're being bamboozaled. These capatalist fat cats are inflating the profit margin and reducing your total number of toys.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 08:28 AM
till 1994 , the government has been the backbone and. NOT SBC or Time Warner or Cox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

I don't want robberbarons to run my utilities !

You can have your worthless expensive fuc*** Time Warner roadrunner or Everest.

Just keep these unethical businesses from lobbying and trying to ruin these projects.. If the public wants a network , then we should have one.

They already killed the project in KC.

We've been through this before and already proven you're an idiot.

Until 1991, the Internet backbone was a conglomeration of private educational institutions and government organizations, MANAGED PRIVATELY. How do I know? I work for the company that STARTED IT ALL.

Without the commercialization of the Internet, it would still be an "educational" network and YOU wouldn't be able to use it.

Dumbass.

However, there is a story here. The RBOC's are in a position now where they can eliminate the rest of their competition from IXC's, etc. It won't be long before they start raising rates.

Count Zarth
01-05-2005, 08:30 AM
I'm moving to Japan.

Cochise
01-05-2005, 08:43 AM
Local governments can be elected and controlled atleast and wont rob us.

Yes, yes. That's all we need. Whenever you are angry with something let's just let the government take it over. How could there be a cheaper and better way to get something than for the government to do it?

I read about this in a book once. Would your name happen to be Snowball or Napoleon?

Cochise
01-05-2005, 08:44 AM
We've been through this before and already proven you're an idiot.

Until 1991, the Internet backbone was a conglomeration of private educational institutions and government organizations, MANAGED PRIVATELY. How do I know? I work for the company that STARTED IT ALL.

Does this lunatic still think the government ran the internet until 1991?

I did think this was funny but now I feel a deep sense of pity.

AeroSquid
01-05-2005, 09:41 AM
We've been through this before and already proven you're an idiot.

Until 1991, the Internet backbone was a conglomeration of private educational institutions and government organizations, MANAGED PRIVATELY. How do I know? I work for the company that STARTED IT ALL.

Without the commercialization of the Internet, it would still be an "educational" network and YOU wouldn't be able to use it.

Dumbass.

However, there is a story here. The RBOC's are in a position now where they can eliminate the rest of their competition from IXC's, etc. It won't be long before they start raising rates.

who is it you work for??

In 1969, Arpanet connected four computers in four different universities throughout western United States. Housed separately at the Stanford University, University of California Los Angeles, University of California Santa Barbara and the University of Utah, these four computers are the earliest predecessors of the Internet.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 10:30 AM
who is it you work for??

I work for MCI and we also own UUNet. Along with BBN and AT&T they were really the founders of the modern Internet. UUNet was the very first all-commercial (non-government backbone). We also still manage much of the legacy National Science Foundation network (NSFNet).

And then, of course, Vinton Cerf is our SVP of Tech Strategy. He and Bob Kahn developed the very first spec of transmission control over packet switched networks, laying the groundwork for TCP/IP.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 10:31 AM
Ah, I see what you're getting at. I wasn't claiming my company started the Internet.

My company was instrumental in commercializing the Internet, making it what it is today.

http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 10:52 AM
We've been through this before and already proven you're an idiot.

Until 1991, the Internet backbone was a conglomeration of private educational institutions and government organizations, MANAGED PRIVATELY. How do I know? I work for the company that STARTED IT ALL.

Without the commercialization of the Internet, it would still be an "educational" network and YOU wouldn't be able to use it.

Dumbass.

However, there is a story here. The RBOC's are in a position now where they can eliminate the rest of their competition from IXC's, etc. It won't be long before they start raising rates.


Gloves off.

If you read then you understand the obstacles of government trying to nose in on these robberbaron monopolist telecommunication networks.
It's not easy when you have TimeWarner and SBC blocking everything with their elected cronies putting roadblocks in legislation .



The INTERNET would never FUC***G EXIST if it weren't for the GOVERNMENT.

You FU****ING GOAT HERDER. Just because you worked somewhere installing cables doesn't mean you know sh%% or do sh**.

http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/newpath/chap2.html

not to mention standards.
http://www.hitmill.com/internet/web_history.asp

The internet is a revolution because we don't pay OBSCENELY high rates for long distance communication.

None of this network would have come to be without government.

FACT.

ENDelt260
01-05-2005, 10:55 AM
When I hear some redneck from Kansas spouting tech , I get kind of pissed.

ROFL

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 11:04 AM
I work for MCI and we also own UUNet. Along with BBN and AT&T they were really the founders of the modern Internet. UUNet was the very first all-commercial (non-government backbone). We also still manage much of the legacy National Science Foundation network (NSFNet).

And then, of course, Vinton Cerf is our SVP of Tech Strategy. He and Bob Kahn developed the very first spec of transmission control over packet switched networks, laying the groundwork for TCP/IP.

Quit taking credit. Your company was the first ISP but who gives a damn.

You sound like Al Gore.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 11:07 AM
Ah, I see what you're getting at. I wasn't claiming my company started the Internet.

My company was instrumental in commercializing the Internet, making it what it is today.

http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/

You got fuc***g BALLS.

We are MCI/UUnet . Without us there would be no internet !

LOL !!!!!!!!!! :) :clap: ROFL :thumb:

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 11:20 AM
Too funny!

Try GRADUATING FROM HIGH SCHOOL and getting a JOB before you start lecturing on something you know nothing about...

Cochise
01-05-2005, 11:23 AM
ROFL

This guy is a grade-A wackjob. He should have a new username or something.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 11:24 AM
ROFL

This guy is a grade-A wackjob. He should have a new username or something.

If I weren't so god-damned busy today, I would spend the next hour embarrassing him.

DanT
01-05-2005, 11:29 AM
Government is on both sides of this dispute. There's the local government that's interested in providing broadband to the local residents and then there's the government regulators that the Bells are interested in using to create barriers to entry into the market.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 11:30 AM
Government is on both sides of this dispute. There's the local government that's interested in providing broadband to the local residents and then there's the government regulators that the Bells are interested in using to create barriers to entry into the market.

What's funny is that this guy lumps ALL phone companies together as "Bells"...

I work for an IXC, the RBOCs are the ENEMY.

HC_Chief
01-05-2005, 11:35 AM
Anyone else get the feeling that warpaint99 is DUHnese's whacked-out child?

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 11:37 AM
Anyone else get the feeling that warpaint99 is DUHnese's whacked-out child?

Much less calculated than Denise. Far less "squiggly". Far more prone to call names and get excited.

And FAR LESS educated, obviously.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 11:39 AM
What's funny is that this guy lumps ALL phone companies together as "Bells"...

I work for an IXC, the RBOCs are the ENEMY.

IXC= long distance company.
Rboc= regional bell operating company.

You do know the internet is cutting into long distance profits. I am sure you will respond with ' great , we would like that'.

But once again , Nice to see you invented the internet . :thumb:

Oh sorry. You made the modern day internet .

:clap:

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 11:48 AM
If I weren't so god-damned busy today, I would spend the next hour embarrassing him.


Dude. Go back to work installing phone lines that have fallen.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 11:52 AM
Much less calculated than Denise. Far less "squiggly". Far more prone to call names and get excited.

And FAR LESS educated, obviously.


No one could be as educted as a fu**ing long distance company employee !!!


I am so humbled by talking to such greatness !

Go back to work redneck.

And thanks for inventing the modern day internet ! :thumb:

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 12:07 PM
No one could be as educted as a fu**ing long distance company employee !!!


I am so humbled by talking to such greatness !

Go back to work redneck.

And thanks for inventing the modern day internet ! :thumb:

Beautiful.

Prior to working for a "long distance company" I worked for the world's 2nd largest fenestration provider. You know what fenestration is, right?

Before that, I designed municipal HFC networks. Of course, you know how that all works, right?

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 12:10 PM
IXC= long distance company.
Rboc= regional bell operating company.

You do know the internet is cutting into long distance profits. I am sure you will respond with ' great , we would like that'.

But once again , Nice to see you invented the internet . :thumb:

Oh sorry. You made the modern day internet .

:clap:

The Internet isn't cutting into OUR long distance profits. Price erosion caused by the RBOCs entrance into the market is.

Considering we carry rougly 60% of the world's internet traffic, your local VoIP shop is carrying their traffic over US.

I make my money either way.

Back to Business 101 with you.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 12:15 PM
The Internet isn't cutting into OUR long distance profits. Price erosion caused by the RBOCs entrance into the market is.

Considering we carry rougly 60% of the world's internet traffic, your local VoIP shop is carrying their traffic over US.

I make my money either way.

Back to Business 101 with you.

FUD

I don't buy what you say 100% . VOIP is cutting into profits for long distance companies and it isn't abating.

I really doubt carrying internet traffic is as profitable as long distance calls.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 12:24 PM
FUD

I don't buy what you say 100% . VOIP is cutting into profits for long distance companies and it isn't abating.

I really doubt carrying internet traffic is as profitable as long distance calls.

How do you think VoIP users can call regular PSTN customers? It's called a GATEWAY.

We provide the NSRS/SIP platform for over a million Time-Warner and Comcast residential VoIP customers.

Not to mention the fact that buying long distance minutes requires no additional investment from the customer. If they buy VoIP, they need Internet connectivity. If they buy Internet connectivity, they need firewalls, routers, and in many cases consulting.

There's a TON more revenue in IP than in traditional LD because IP is a building block technology.

No question, long distance is a fast disappearing revenue stream. However, VoIP is not the catalyst. The RBOC's are. They own the local lines so they don't have to compete for local business. Even if you buy VoIP via DSL from Vonage, the RBOC OWNS that copper pair.

Because the RBOC doesn't have to pay anything to deliver services to the curb, they can "buy" their way into the LD market. In some places they're offering sub-2 cent rates to customers that do less than 10000 minutes a month.

Make no mistake, once they've pushed the competitors out of the long distance space, those rates will go up - fast.

beavis
01-05-2005, 12:59 PM
I was going to jump in, but it looks like htismaqe has this assclown covered.

As a side note, has this guy ever made a football related post? All I've ever seen out of him is this nonsense.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 01:21 PM
I was going to jump in, but it looks like htismaqe has this assclown covered.

As a side note, has this guy ever made a football related post? All I've ever seen out of him is this nonsense.


No. He didn't cover me !

I still believe municipal broadband is superior and that the cable and phone companies are moneygrubbing thieves.

:thumb:

|Zach|
01-05-2005, 01:22 PM
No. He didn't cover me !

I still believe municipal broadband is superior and that the cable and phone companies are moneygrubbing thieves.

:thumb:
God damn them for giving us a service that people pay for not because they are forced but because they want it...

DAMN THEM!!!

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 01:24 PM
A service that has no competition. Reread the article.

|Zach|
01-05-2005, 01:29 PM
A service that has no competition. Reread the article.
Then dont buy it and dont support it.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 01:37 PM
Lets educate and empower people and break it up or regulate it.

|Zach|
01-05-2005, 01:39 PM
Lets educate and empower people and break it up or regulate it.
No, I like watching you go apeshit.

Cochise
01-05-2005, 01:39 PM
God damn them for giving us a service that people pay for not because they are forced but because they want it...

DAMN THEM!!!

It's funny that he is decrying non-competition but doesn't want LD to have competition from VoIP

Cochise
01-05-2005, 01:39 PM
Lets educate and empower people and break it up or regulate it.

Yeah, more regulation, that always makes things cheaper for the consumer.

Bob Dole
01-05-2005, 01:41 PM
Lets educate and empower people and break it up or regulate it.

Sing it with Bob Dole, brother.

Workers of the world unite! More government! Less profit!

|Zach|
01-05-2005, 01:45 PM
It's funny that he is decrying non-competition but doesn't want LD to have competition from VoIP
Actully I think Lunar Bowl should be the sole provider of broadband internet.

beavis
01-05-2005, 01:45 PM
No. He didn't cover me !

I still believe municipal broadband is superior and that the cable and phone companies are moneygrubbing thieves.

:thumb:
I know, the nerve of these people. Trying to make a profit from their business. I think they should all be locked up. :shake:

beavis
01-05-2005, 01:46 PM
Actully I think Lunar Bowl should be the sole provider of broadband internet.
I'll do it. I'd only charge warpaint $10,000 up front fee too.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 01:46 PM
Bill Gates , great profiteer and criminal.

Count Zarth
01-05-2005, 01:48 PM
Bill Gates , great profiteer and criminal.

Jesus christ you are stupid.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 01:56 PM
Where is your TAXASS twang ?

Yep , being a abusive monopoly is illegal dufus redneck !

Go check what happened to AT&T and Microsoft.

Though Microsoft got off easy with Republican help.

Cochise
01-05-2005, 02:07 PM
You know that when the high school students are saying profiteer like it's a four letter word the country is slipping towards Marxism.

A spectre is hanging over the Planet... the spectre of Warpaint

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 02:14 PM
First of all , some of you work for the phone and cable companies and don't think highly of me posting . So be it but I really don't care.

Here is the main miscommunication . Profits are ok. Abusive monopolies aren't.

A difference there.

beavis
01-05-2005, 02:16 PM
Whoever maxes out warpaint's negative rep gets a prize.

Bob Dole
01-05-2005, 02:17 PM
First of all , some of you work for the phone and cable companies and don't think highly of me posting . So be it but I really don't care.

Here is the main miscommunication . Profits are ok. Abusive monopolies aren't.

A difference there.

There are a number of different issues at work here.

The primary problem seems to be that your single-minded love of anything government prevents you from seeing them.

Cochise
01-05-2005, 02:27 PM
You guys are on crack. The government can do anything better than private business can. It gets rid of the profiteers. They can even fix the prices. Hell if you run out of money they can just print you more. And why do we need more than one producer of a commodity anyway? I'm sure they will still deliver quality even in the absence of competition. If the government just controlled all the means of production and distribution then everything would be fine. Maybe they can assign us all apartments and guarantee us all jobs too. And everyone can make the same wage, yeah, that sounds fair to me. No "profiteering" that way. It will just take some good central planning. We can just leave it up to the experts.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 02:46 PM
Broadband is not like buying something at the grocery store.

Hearing you guys go with extremist analogies is humorous and puzzling.

I am not saying turn the U.S. into marxist state.

Broadband= Electricity=Water = Public roads. Do you see the common theme here ? Big projects should be left to government. If the electric utilities were run like TWarner road runner then we would be paying out of our ass.

Cochise
01-05-2005, 02:55 PM
Broadband is not like buying something at the grocery store.

Hearing you guys go with extremist analogies is humorous and puzzling.

I am not saying turn the U.S. into marxist state.

Broadband= Electricity=Water = Public roads. Do you see the common theme here ? Big projects should be left to government. If the electric utilities were run like TWarner road runner then we would be paying out of our ass.

Electric utilities are run by the government?

the people at KCPL/Western Resources and at Aquilla, for example, two publicly traded companies, will be surprised to learn that.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 03:26 PM
Electric utilities are run by the government?

the people at KCPL/Western Resources and at Aquilla, for example, two publicly traded companies, will be surprised to learn that.


I don't they would. You might though.

The word regulated is important.

http://www.thinkkc.com/2_partners/2d_corporate/profiles/ksc_kcpl.htm

Wouldn't mind it if cable tv/broadband also were run that way. Cable TV has a local city commission overseeing it but they never interfere in pricing.

Cochise
01-05-2005, 03:45 PM
The word regulated is important.
http://www.thinkkc.com/2_partners/2d_corporate/profiles/ksc_kcpl.htm

Wouldn't mind it if cable tv/broadband also were run that way. Cable TV has a local city commission overseeing it but they never interfere in pricing.

The word regulated never appeared in your post.

So you would be opposed to letting people have alternatives like satellite, as they do now, and institute a choiceless one-provider system with government price controls like with electric utility. You believe that the best solution is to use the government's coffers to abolish the supply and demand process and create disincentives to conserve and produce. Thank you Mr. Engels

Count Zarth
01-05-2005, 04:01 PM
Broadband= Electricity=Water = Public roads.

That is such BS. Alot of people neither use nor need broadband.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 04:49 PM
Lets educate and empower people and break it up or regulate it.

It's already regulated. That's part of the problem. Seriously, you need to do some homework.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 04:57 PM
First of all , some of you work for the phone and cable companies and don't think highly of me posting . So be it but I really don't care.

Here is the main miscommunication . Profits are ok. Abusive monopolies aren't.

A difference there.

My first job in this business was working for an equal access provider (if you know what that is). We designed, built, and maintained dialup and broadband access networks for 175 independent telcos in towns with no more than 750-1000 people.

Our main competitor was the STATE GOVERNMENT. Of course, they used public tax money to build their network. Then they informed the public schools in the state that there were certain statutory situations that required them to purchase internet connectivity from the state, at ONE AND A HALF TIMES to market rate. What did they do with that profit? They certainly didn't reinvest in the network - it's one of the worst clusters I've ever seen -- friends that work at the DOT do nothing but complain about service quality. So I ask again? Where do the profits go?

You simply don't have any idea what you're talking about.

And by the way, you probably out to stop bashing MCI and other "phone companies". We're one of the largest players in a group SPEARHEADING the campaign to regulate broadband better than legacy telecom services are today and keep control of all broadband out of the hands of the RBOCs.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 05:27 PM
My first job in this business was working for an equal access provider (if you know what that is). We designed, built, and maintained dialup and broadband access networks for 175 independent telcos in towns with no more than 750-1000 people.

Our main competitor was the STATE GOVERNMENT. Of course, they used public tax money to build their network. Then they informed the public schools in the state that there were certain statutory situations that required them to purchase internet connectivity from the state, at ONE AND A HALF TIMES to market rate. What did they do with that profit? They certainly didn't reinvest in the network - it's one of the worst clusters I've ever seen -- friends that work at the DOT do nothing but complain about service quality. So I ask again? Where do the profits go?

You simply don't have any idea what you're talking about.

And by the way, you probably out to stop bashing MCI and other "phone companies". We're one of the largest players in a group SPEARHEADING the campaign to regulate broadband better than legacy telecom services are today and keep control of all broadband out of the hands of the RBOCs.

Ok buddy, You are one of the biggest FUD artists I have ever seen.

I know for a FACT municipal broadband is FASTER AND CHEAPER than anything the private sector can or will handle. Do you know why ? pricing structure . There is a tiered system of pricing on the market and they fear the hell out of true highspeed broadband( not the crap TimeWarners has of 2-4 megbits/sec) . Thats why they are attacking the Louisiana , Chicago http://www.tricitybroadband.com and Pennsylvania http://news.com.com/Broadband+boondoggle+in+the+making/2010-7351_3-5511446.html?tag=nefd.ac

Lets talk local news . KC was trying to implement Wi-Fi broadband for the locals. It was blocked . Guess who ? The big cable company thought that the government shouldn't be getting involved giving away affordable broadband. The government is not going to force price increases like the Bells and the Cable companies. Everyone would have a vote to say what the prices should be and they are NOT blocking access like the phone and the cable companies are doing right now using subterfuge tactics and lobbyists to stall and kill with legislation.

Dude . You don't know what your saying. Your only thinking of your fu**ing self.

And I don't give a flying sh$$ about your battles with the Regional Bells.
All the broadband legislations have failed to deliver competition. Where the hell is it ? In my opinion, you people(telephone co.) are part of the problem. You all think you have some rights to tell us who we can only choose cable or DSL,at inflated prices, and nothing else

Thats why we need municipal broadband.

DanT
01-05-2005, 05:39 PM
Here's the text of the Wikipedia.com entry on WorldCom, the company currently now operating as MCI. Go to the link for the hyperlinked version of this article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldCom


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
For a time, WorldCom (WCOM) was the United States' second largest long distance phone company (AT&T was the largest). WorldCom grew largely by acquiring other telecommunications companies, most notably MCI. It also owned the Tier 1 ISP UUNET, a major part of the Internet backbone. It was based in Clinton, Mississippi.

On November 10, 1997, WorldCom and MCI announced their US$37 billion merger to form MCI-WorldCom, making it the largest merger in US history.

In June 2002, an internal audit discovered that US$3.8 billion had been 'miscounted.' The US Securities and Exchange Commission launched an investigation into these matters on June 26, 2002. (See accounting scandals.)

On July 21 2002, WorldCom filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the largest such filing in United States history. Its CEO and founder, Bernard Ebbers, came under fire for his failure to prevent the bankruptcy.

In August 2002, an additional $3.3 billion in improper accounting since 1999 was announced. By the end of 2003, it was estimated that the company's assets had been inflated by around $12 billion.

In May, 2003, the company was given a no-bid contract by the United States Department of Defense to build a cellular telephone network in Iraq. The deal has been criticized by competitors and others who cite the company's lack of experience in the area. [1] (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/123016_worldcomiraq22.html)

The company emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2004 with a new name, MCI, and about $5.7 billion in debt and $6 billion in cash. About half of the cash was intended to pay various claims and settlements. Previous bondholders ended up being paid 35.7 cents on the dollar, in bonds and stock in the new MCI company. The previous stockholders' stock was valueless.

Under the bankruptcy reorganization agreement, the company paid $750 million to the SEC in cash and stock in the new MCI, which was intended to be paid to wronged investors.

WorldCom (now MCI) has yet to pay its creditors, who have waited for 2 years for a portion of monies owed. Many of the small creditors include former employees, primarily those who were laid off in June 2002 and whose severance and benefits were withheld when WCOM filed for bankruptcy. A group of some of these employees have formed the exWorldCom5100 group (http://www.exworldcom5100.com).

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 06:13 PM
Ok buddy, You are one of the biggest FUD artists I have ever seen.

I know for a FACT municipal broadband is FASTER AND CHEAPER than anything the private sector can or will handle. Do you know why ? pricing structure . There is a tiered system of pricing on the market and they fear the hell out of true highspeed broadband( not the crap TimeWarners has of 2-4 megbits/sec) . Thats why they are attacking the Louisiana , Chicago http://www.tricitybroadband.com and Pennsylvania http://news.com.com/Broadband+boondoggle+in+the+making/2010-7351_3-5511446.html?tag=nefd.ac

Lets talk local news . KC was trying to implement Wi-Fi broadband for the locals. It was blocked . Guess who ? The big cable company thought that the government shouldn't be getting involved giving away affordable broadband. The government is not going to force price increases like the Bells and the Cable companies. Everyone would have a vote to say what the prices should be and they are NOT blocking access like the phone and the cable companies are doing right now using subterfuge tactics and lobbyists to stall and kill with legislation.

Dude . You don't know what your saying. Your only thinking of your fu**ing self.

And I don't give a flying sh$$ about your battles with the Regional Bells.
All the broadband legislations have failed to deliver competition. Where the hell is it ? In my opinion, you people(telephone co.) are part of the problem. You all think you have some rights to tell us who we can only choose cable or DSL,at inflated prices, and nothing else

Thats why we need municipal broadband.

You sir, are an uninformed buffoon.

I used to build municipal HFC networks, remember? They COST the same to build, whether you're a city government or a private company. Guess who's helping these cities build their networks? People like me ****HEAD.

You don't know anything about government legislation over broadband. For one thing, THERE ISN'T ANY. You do know what tariffs are, right? Then you would also know that things like long distance voice, access lines, and frame relay are tariffed, while VoIP and DSL are not.

You might also know that companies like Boingo, Vonage, and even MCI and AT&T are FIGHTING the RBOCs and cable companies efforts to prevent legislation/regulation of broadband. We're the ONLY companies ASKING the government to get involved.

Lumping me in with the RBOCs only shows how truly ignorant you are.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 06:14 PM
Here's the text of the Wikipedia.com entry on WorldCom, the company currently now operating as MCI. Go to the link for the hyperlinked version of this article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldCom

Yep. They basically got rid of all of the upper management and everything that was WorldCom.

It's basically the pre-merger MCI, with UUNet retained...

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 06:28 PM
You sir, are an uninformed buffoon.

I used to build municipal HFC networks, remember? They COST the same to build, whether you're a city government or a private company. Guess who's helping these cities build their networks? People like me ****HEAD.

You don't know anything about government legislation over broadband. For one thing, THERE ISN'T ANY. You do know what tariffs are, right? Then you would also know that things like long distance voice, access lines, and frame relay are tariffed, while VoIP and DSL are not.

You might also know that companies like Boingo, Vonage, and even MCI and AT&T are FIGHTING the RBOCs and cable companies efforts to prevent legislation/regulation of broadband. We're the ONLY companies ASKING the government to get involved.

Lumping me in with the RBOCs only shows how truly ignorant you are.

I am calling you dishonest liar . Why don't get your facts right.
Once again, I don't give a damn about tariffs and your problem with the Bells.

Heres your proof. Don't look if its too much for your faint heart.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/37166
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/14924

Theres a million other examples of success . And as for your comment on preventing legislation on broadband. Well we are seeing it in Louisiana. Aren't we ?

http://www.muniwireless.com/reports/

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 06:31 PM
A service that has no competition. Reread the article.

Hmm...there's no competition.

I live in bum**** Iowa, in a town of about 9000 people. I can get DSL from the iLEC, DSL from 2 different cLECs, cable broadband from the cable company, Wi-Fi from a startup ISP, and there's always satellite broadband...

No, there's no competition...

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 06:39 PM
I am calling you dishonest liar . Why don't get your facts right.
Once again, I don't give a damn about tariffs and your problem with the Bells.

Heres your proof. Don't look if its too much for your faint heart.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/37166
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/14924

Theres a million other examples of success . And as for your comment on preventing legislation on broadband. Well we are seeing it in Louisiana. Aren't we ?

http://www.muniwireless.com/reports/

Wow. Articles about municipalities installing networks and the pressures they faced from incumbent telco's and cable companies. That's definitely the proof I was looking for. Those state definitively that municipal networks are far better and cheaper to users than privately-held networks.

The fact that you don't give a damn about tariffs shows that you have NO IDEA how telecom is regulated or not regulated. You took up a cause you found on Broadband Reports.com. You're speaking out of your ass and everyone here knows it.

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 06:49 PM
Did you read the price of monthly broadband ????

$ 25 bucks a month. Not bad. It's faster than the crap from TW.

I don't see how a few DSL companies and a cable company are reducing prices and increasing bandwidth.


I don't think you get it. DSL speeds vary. . I would rather have Fiber to the curb , not the throttled down crap by TimeWarner.

Broadbandreports is one of a couple of websites I read .

And I really don't care about the Telcoms or DSL . Their product is inferior and Verizon will charge up the ass for fiber to the curb.

You have not proven anything except that your telcom crony .

DanT
01-05-2005, 06:54 PM
Yep. They basically got rid of all of the upper management and everything that was WorldCom.

It's basically the pre-merger MCI, with UUNet retained...

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 07:12 PM
Did you read the price of monthly broadband ????

$ 25 bucks a month. Not bad. It's faster than the crap from TW.

I don't see how a few DSL companies and a cable company are reducing prices and increasing bandwidth.


I don't think you get it. DSL speeds vary. . I would rather have Fiber to the curb , not the throttled down crap by TimeWarner.

Broadbandreports is one of a couple of websites I read .

And I really don't care about the Telcoms or DSL . Their product is inferior and Verizon will charge up the ass for fiber to the curb.

You have not proven anything except that your telcom crony .

$25 a month. That's what I pay for my cable modem service from the local cable company. The most expensive service here is $39.99.

You think the government drives down prices but competition doesn't? How old are you, 16?

I've helped independents in this area take fiber to the curb. They use it to provide ethernet internet access, as well as voice and cable TV service.

You do realize that the average WinTel PC can't transmit or recieve data at 10Mbits per second, right? All of that "fat pipe" to your house will NEVER be used, right?

I can see right through you. You're one of those "gimme, gimme, I don't have to earn it types".

Go get a real job, gain some experience, and grow up.

By the way, I'm not surprised you have to call me names. It's a common tactic for those that realize in the middle of an argument that they're intellectually out-matched.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 07:13 PM
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

I lost my entire 401k. Luckily I'm young, so I have a few years to make it back.

I can't wait to see the trial. I hope Bernie does some "hard" time...

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 07:26 PM
$25 a month. That's what I pay for my cable modem service from the local cable company. The most expensive service here is $39.99.

You think the government drives down prices but competition doesn't? How old are you, 16?

I've helped independents in this area take fiber to the curb. They use it to provide ethernet internet access, as well as voice and cable TV service.

You do realize that the average WinTel PC can't transmit or recieve data at 10Mbits per second, right? All of that "fat pipe" to your house will NEVER be used, right?

I can see right through you. You're one of those "gimme, gimme, I don't have to earn it types".

Go get a real job, gain some experience, and grow up.

By the way, I'm not surprised you have to call me names. It's a common tactic for those that realize in the middle of an argument that they're intellectually out-matched.

Over here i pay 40-50 month for broadband . These are monopoly driven prices.

So government doesn't compete in services ? What the hell do you call Electric , Water utilities and highway construction or big project constructions ? We need these government services because there are only a few competitors . If we get rid of them it would be just like broadband and the ridiculous prices. It's basic economics you stupid uneducated turd. Less competition , higher prices. So whats wrong with government competition unless you can't stand the fire.

Here's the Pennsylvani WiFi project that was killed.
http://news.com.com/Broadband+boondoggle+in+the+making/2010-7351_3-5511446.html?tag=nefd.ac

I gave you great links to read , yet you act stupid.

You are the biggest selfserving Corporate slimeball i have ever encountered on a board. I should expect it though from your ilk. Your all bold faced liars. Same typical arguments to the masses "get a real job' , 'no one needs that kind of bandwidth' , ' poor don't deserve bandwidth'.

I albsolutely love that muni broadband fiber and WiFi is gaining steam .

Hopefully , it will put you assholes out of business.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 07:30 PM
So government doesn't compete in services ? What the hell do you call Electric , Water utilities and highway construction or big project constructions ? There are only a few competitors . It's basic economics you stupid uneducated turd. Less competition , higher prices. So whats wrong with government competition unless you can't stand the fire.

Here's the Pennsylvani WiFi project that was killed.
http://news.com.com/Broadband+boondoggle+in+the+making/2010-7351_3-5511446.html?tag=nefd.ac

I gave you great links to read , yet you act stupid.

You are the biggest selfserving Corporate slimeball i have ever encountered on a board. I should expect it though from your ilk. Your all bold faced liars. Same typical arguments to the masses "get a real job' , 'no one needs that kind of bandwidth' , ' poor don't deserve bandwidth'.

I albsolutely love that muni broadband fiber and WiFi is gaining steam .

Hopefully , it will put you assholes out of business.

Again, you reek of desparation. You've realized that your argument is baseless so you have to resort to name calling.

Muni broadband won't put me out of business. Apparently you failed to read the part that said I BUILD THE SHIT.

Cochise
01-05-2005, 07:42 PM
I can see right through you. You're one of those "gimme, gimme, I don't have to earn it types".

Go get a real job, gain some experience, and grow up.

God bless america :clap:

Cochise
01-05-2005, 07:51 PM
oh, and:

Count Zarth
01-05-2005, 08:04 PM
oh, and:

OH GOD OH GOD ROFL

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 08:30 PM
Again, you reek of desparation. You've realized that your argument is baseless so you have to resort to name calling.

Muni broadband won't put me out of business. Apparently you failed to read the part that said I BUILD THE SHIT.

LOL . Desperation ? I think munibroadband is getting stronger every day. The people see the news article of SBC and Cable trying to prevent REAL competition.

You have biased opinion. Many in your industry don't want the gov in the business. You don't want gov in broadband and I do.

I don't give a flip that your in the business. Is that supposed to impress me ?

Inspector
01-05-2005, 08:32 PM
No one could be as educted as a fu**ing long distance company employee !!!


I am so humbled by talking to such greatness !

Go back to work redneck.

And thanks for inventing the modern day internet ! :thumb:

Umm, the long distance company I work for invented the telephone.

Hey, that's something!

No telephone invented = no internet.

So there!

Inspector
01-05-2005, 08:36 PM
No. He didn't cover me !

I still believe municipal broadband is superior and that the cable and phone companies are moneygrubbing thieves.

:thumb:
One of those moneygrubbing thieving phone companies pays me a bunch of money, so I like 'em. Hope they grub more so I can get more.

:thumb:

Barret
01-05-2005, 09:10 PM
Ok this is completely making no sense at all.

Lets say I am a big cable company for a minute. I am out to make money for my investors and grow my business to be competitive in the market I am currently in. (oh by the way this works for any company) So should I sit back and let the federal government or state/local government come in and try to take away my business that I have been cultivating and working hard on. If I was CEO and just stood by and let that happen the investors would vote my bum ass out in a heartbeat.

There is a fine line that a company must draw concerning profit/loss. Now there is competition out there for your Internet dollar not just from cable companies but also from DSL and Satellite. If I am the big cable company I have to adjust my product to be competitive with those other options, and yes there are other options so donít spout monopoly with out information. Again going back up to what I said, a government entity comes in and starts offering lower priced goods because it is being paid for by TAX DOLLARS which is an unfair business practice. How can my company then really compete with that?? I canít raise TAX MONEY to build my fiber links or amps I have to put out on streets. I cant FORCE VIA TAXATION money to come into my coffers to run my company. I have to offer a good product where as the government doesnít have to since IT WILL ALWAYS GET PAID DUE TO TAXES!!!

See this is where it really would burn me up if I were a landowner or someone living in that area. Lets say for an instant that I donít like Lafayette Parrish Internet or whatever the hell it would be called. Ok super I would then go to Cox or SBC or some other choice but...uhm...wait a sec I am still paying Lafayette Parrish internet since I am STILL PAYING TAXES for the crap they installed all over the place.

You donít seem to understand the issue here. I as a taxpayer donít want to subsidize or pay for your FREAKING INTERNET because of taxes. When I look at the crap I already have to pay for taxes I donít want to see on there "county internet service fee" and know that I am not even using that.

Valiant
01-05-2005, 09:43 PM
Ok this is completely making no sense at all.

Lets say I am a big cable company for a minute. I am out to make money for my investors and grow my business to be competitive in the market I am currently in. (oh by the way this works for any company) So should I sit back and let the federal government or state/local government come in and try to take away my business that I have been cultivating and working hard on. If I was CEO and just stood by and let that happen the investors would vote my bum ass out in a heartbeat.

There is a fine line that a company must draw concerning profit/loss. Now there is competition out there for your Internet dollar not just from cable companies but also from DSL and Satellite. If I am the big cable company I have to adjust my product to be competitive with those other options, and yes there are other options so donít spout monopoly with out information. Again going back up to what I said, a government entity comes in and starts offering lower priced goods because it is being paid for by TAX DOLLARS which is an unfair business practice. How can my company then really compete with that?? I canít raise TAX MONEY to build my fiber links or amps I have to put out on streets. I cant FORCE VIA TAXATION money to come into my coffers to run my company. I have to offer a good product where as the government doesnít have to since IT WILL ALWAYS GET PAID DUE TO TAXES!!!

See this is where it really would burn me up if I were a landowner or someone living in that area. Lets say for an instant that I donít like Lafayette Parrish Internet or whatever the hell it would be called. Ok super I would then go to Cox or SBC or some other choice but...uhm...wait a sec I am still paying Lafayette Parrish internet since I am STILL PAYING TAXES for the crap they installed all over the place.

You donít seem to understand the issue here. I as a taxpayer donít want to subsidize or pay for your FREAKING INTERNET because of taxes. When I look at the crap I already have to pay for taxes I donít want to see on there "county internet service fee" and know that I am not even using that.


This is the part he is not seeing...

He does not see that it will subsizdised by the government in taxes, it will not make the government any money.. It would lose money especially when they have to rent the lines from cable and phone companies that already paid for the lines to be ran.. They can also pay to run the lines but the cost of 20 bucks a month would not cover it... Then take in effect what are they going to pay to do it... Will they run it better then they do roads now???

How many jobs would be lost if something this stupid were to pass.. You are just a me person, you want it pratically free... Cant imagine someone bitching about paying 30-40 bucks for internet...

All those articles are fairy tales... They do not go into the cost of maitence, employees, customer service... But it is alright for our taxes to be used on it, right????

warpaint99
01-05-2005, 10:03 PM
This is the part he is not seeing...

He does not see that it will subsizdised by the government in taxes, it will not make the government any money.. It would lose money especially when they have to rent the lines from cable and phone companies that already paid for the lines to be ran.. They can also pay to run the lines but the cost of 20 bucks a month would not cover it... Then take in effect what are they going to pay to do it... Will they run it better then they do roads now???

How many jobs would be lost if something this stupid were to pass.. You are just a me person, you want it pratically free... Cant imagine someone bitching about paying 30-40 bucks for internet...

All those articles are fairy tales... They do not go into the cost of maitence, employees, customer service... But it is alright for our taxes to be used on it, right????


You are so fu***ing clueless. It's not even funny . Way above your head.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 06:38 AM
LOL . Desperation ? I think munibroadband is getting stronger every day. The people see the news article of SBC and Cable trying to prevent REAL competition.

You have biased opinion. Many in your industry don't want the gov in the business. You don't want gov in broadband and I do.

I don't give a flip that your in the business. Is that supposed to impress me ?

I guess you have a problem with comprehension. Did you not understand, or fail to read, when I said I'm ALL FOR GOVERNMENT REGULATION OF BROADBAND?

And the reason you should give a flip about my business is because I SUPPORT MUNICIPAL BROADBAND NETWORKS. I WANT THEM.

Because I build them and I get paid to build them.

You're a complete ****ing idiot.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 06:58 AM
Ok, warpaint, I'm gonna say this and then I'm done with this thread. I'm sure everybody is tired of reading our shit.

In the end, WE WANT THE SAME THING. I want competition, whether it be from muni's, cLEC's, IXC's, and yes, even the RBOC's. But it has to be FAIR, and therefore the government needs to be an intermediary.

Competition is good for the consumer because it keeps prices low. Competition is good for me personally because the more people that build these, the more money I can make.

But let me give you some advice -- if this is a cause you TRULY believe in, you need to get educated. You need to understand the current regulatory environment (you don't), you need to understand the current underlying technology (you don't), and you need to get a grasp on market forces and where they are pushing the industry (again, you don't).

The avearge American consumer doesn't even know this issue exists, and therefore they don't really care. They need to be educated. That isn't at all facilitated by what you did here. In fact, I'm guessing anybody that read this said "Well, whatever HE is for, I'm against." That's not the way to win people to your side.

Valiant
01-06-2005, 08:22 AM
You are so fu***ing clueless. It's not even funny . Way above your head.


Im clueless, whos the one running around screaming like a littel bitch 'me,me,me,me...' You are ****ing joke... Go back to your little fantasy world and leave the rest for rational people... ****ing asshat...

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 09:56 AM
You know what fenestration is, right?

Isn't defenestration throwing stuff out a window?

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 10:05 AM
' poor don't deserve bandwidth'.

Uh... why do they?

Cochise
01-06-2005, 10:09 AM
Uh... why do they?

I missed that... but whom exactly is 'entitled' to any sort of internet, especially broadband. Is this some kind of basic human need? Why aren't they entitled to cable tv too?

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 10:09 AM
I missed that... but whom exactly is 'entitled' to any sort of internet, especially broadband. Is this some kind of basic human need? Why aren't they entitled to cable tv too?
And a new Lincoln. Everyone deserves a new Lincoln.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 10:12 AM
What I don't get is the complaint about "paying $40-50 a month" and those being "monopolistic prices".

Apparently, $40-50 is a price the MARKET WILL BEAR, considering even HE PAID FOR IT.

HC_Chief
01-06-2005, 10:15 AM
C'mon, it's obvious warpaint is just a stupid high school kid whose head has been filled with "communisim is a great idea that just hasn't been properly implemented" propoganda.

He'll grow up eventually. Pounding on him like this will only make it take longer; or drive him completely to the pinko camp. ;)

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 10:16 AM
Isn't defenestration throwing stuff out a window?
Why yes, Brian, it is (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=defenestration&x=0&y=0).

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 10:32 AM
Why yes, Brian, it is (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=defenestration&x=0&y=0).

ROFL

Lzen
01-06-2005, 11:41 AM
....See this is where it really would burn me up if I were a landowner or someone living in that area. Lets say for an instant that I donít like Lafayette Parrish Internet or whatever the hell it would be called. Ok super I would then go to Cox or SBC or some other choice but...uhm...wait a sec I am still paying Lafayette Parrish internet since I am STILL PAYING TAXES for the crap they installed all over the place.

You donít seem to understand the issue here. I as a taxpayer donít want to subsidize or pay for your FREAKING INTERNET because of taxes. When I look at the crap I already have to pay for taxes I donít want to see on there "county internet service fee" and know that I am not even using that.

Yup. :thumb:

My opinion is that I think competition is a good thing. The more the better. Even if that means municipalities. But not if they need my tax dollars to pay for it.

And I agree that paying $40-50 a month is too high. I pay $26 for SBC DSL. May not be superfast but, it's fast enough for me. ;) The reason I chose them is because at the time (couple years ago) I was looking to upgrade to broadband, Cox cable was wanting about $40-50 a month. ;)

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 11:50 AM
Ok, warpaint, I'm gonna say this and then I'm done with this thread. I'm sure everybody is tired of reading our shit.

In the end, WE WANT THE SAME THING. I want competition, whether it be from muni's, cLEC's, IXC's, and yes, even the RBOC's. But it has to be FAIR, and therefore the government needs to be an intermediary.

Competition is good for the consumer because it keeps prices low. Competition is good for me personally because the more people that build these, the more money I can make.

But let me give you some advice -- if this is a cause you TRULY believe in, you need to get educated. You need to understand the current regulatory environment (you don't), you need to understand the current underlying technology (you don't), and you need to get a grasp on market forces and where they are pushing the industry (again, you don't).

The avearge American consumer doesn't even know this issue exists, and therefore they don't really care. They need to be educated. That isn't at all facilitated by what you did here. In fact, I'm guessing anybody that read this said "Well, whatever HE is for, I'm against." That's not the way to win people to your side.

I could care less for your advice ! You are so arrogantly idiotic that it's hillarious. What the hell are you talking about ? No one can understand the current technology, problems and whats pushing the industry ?

I don't need to know every part of what goes into making a high speed network. I do know of regulations about sharing phone lines anc cable lines that are preventing compettion by Michael Powell who said that it would speed up broadband adoption. It has according to the news but prices have NOT come down but it's still the throtted down slow crap of 2 meg bits /sec. speed.

And i do know that most people don't even care about Fiber to the curb or understand how fast it is. This is why the big CABLE and PHONE co. can use propoganda to steal elections away from muni broadband.

I understand the issues and if you keep saying that I don't then your just a troll.

I WANT IS AFFORDABLE FIBER TO THE CURB. 100 MEGABITS A SEC. NOT GONNA HAPPEN WITH CORPORATE AMERICAS RULE.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 12:31 PM
I could care less for your advice ! You are so arrogantly idiotic that it's hillarious. What the hell are you talking about ? No one can understand the current technology, problems and whats pushing the industry ?

I don't need to know every part of what goes into making a high speed network. I do know of regulations about sharing phone lines anc cable lines that are preventing compettion by Michael Powell who said that it would speed up broadband adoption. It has according to the news but prices have NOT come down but it's still the throtted down slow crap of 2 meg bits /sec. speed.

And i do know that most people don't even care about Fiber to the curb or understand how fast it is. This is why the big CABLE and PHONE co. can use propoganda to steal elections away from muni broadband.

I understand the issues and if you keep saying that I don't then your just a troll.

I WANT IS AFFORDABLE FIBER TO THE CURB. 100 MEGABITS A SEC. NOT GONNA HAPPEN WITH CORPORATE AMERICAS RULE.

I never said nobody can understand the technology or industry. I said YOU don't understand it. And it's quite obvious you don't.

It's not gonna happen EVER. Know why? Because it's unnecessary. You don't even know how much bandwidth 100Mbits/sec is.

There's 2 communities within 15 minutes of me that have built municipal networks and plowed fiber to the curb. You know what? They wish now they hadn't done it, because NOBODY WANTS IT.

Nice to see though that you don't care one way or another whether people take you seriously. Great way to get your point acrossed.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 12:35 PM
I could care less for your advice ! You are so arrogantly idiotic that it's hillarious. What the hell are you talking about ? No one can understand the current technology, problems and whats pushing the industry ?

I don't need to know every part of what goes into making a high speed network. I do know of regulations about sharing phone lines anc cable lines that are preventing compettion by Michael Powell who said that it would speed up broadband adoption. It has according to the news but prices have NOT come down but it's still the throtted down slow crap of 2 meg bits /sec. speed.

And i do know that most people don't even care about Fiber to the curb or understand how fast it is. This is why the big CABLE and PHONE co. can use propoganda to steal elections away from muni broadband.

I understand the issues and if you keep saying that I don't then your just a troll.

I WANT IS AFFORDABLE FIBER TO THE CURB. 100 MEGABITS A SEC. NOT GONNA HAPPEN WITH CORPORATE AMERICAS RULE.

Somebody doesn't know the difference between available bandwidth and transmission speed.

2 Mbits per second is PLENTY of bandwidth for the average person with 1 computer to browse the web. The average Windows PC transmits and receives data at about 1.5Mbits/sec.

Of course, 2Mbits/second is nearly enough bandwidth for you to run your gay amateurs porn site.

Cochise
01-06-2005, 12:46 PM
C'mon, it's obvious warpaint is just a stupid high school kid whose head has been filled with "communisim is a great idea that just hasn't been properly implemented" propoganda.

Believe it or not when I was his age I harbored a lot of feelings like you mention. I read of Marx and people like him, the early theoriests, and it sounded allright to me. I just figured that the system had been plagued by corruption in early implementations and that's where the brutality and dehumanization came from. It wasn't really until I was reading some things in a philosophy course including stuff by a guy named huxley (not 'a brave new world', another guy with the same last name) and nietzsche's madman,things like that, where it occurred to me that it was all part of the deal. That the massacre and suffering of all these people under communism didn't begin in the mind of a brutal leader or within the walls of governing houses but it start on the desks and flowed from the pens of these desconstructive philosophers in in the 17000-1800s, and that there isn't a way to make something work correctly that is broken at its base.

Warpaint will move on past the point of longing to snuggle deeper into the loving arms of the state as I did.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 12:53 PM
Believe it or not when I was his age I harbored a lot of feelings like you mention. I read of Marx and people like him, the early theoriests, and it sounded allright to me. I just figured that the system had been plagued by corruption in early implementations and that's where the brutality and dehumanization came from. It wasn't really until I was reading some things in a philosophy course including stuff by a guy named huxley (not 'a brave new world', another guy with the same last name) and nietzsche's madman,things like that, where it occurred to me that it was all part of the deal. That the massacre and suffering of all these people under communism didn't begin in the mind of a brutal leader or within the walls of governing houses but it start on the desks and flowed from the pens of these desconstructive philosophers in in the 17000-1800s, and that there isn't a way to make something work correctly that is broken at its base.

Warpaint will move on past the point of longing to snuggle deeper into the loving arms of the state as I did.

Friedrich Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher. I have his complete works...auf Deutsch, of course.

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 12:55 PM
Somebody doesn't know the difference between available bandwidth and transmission speed.

2 Mbits per second is PLENTY of bandwidth for the average person with 1 computer to browse the web. The average Windows PC transmits and receives data at about 1.5Mbits/sec.

Of course, 2Mbits/second is nearly enough bandwidth for you to run your gay amateurs porn site.

Fuc* off and TELCOM dude. Your a stupid arrogant nobody. Your expertise is in nothing of importance.

People do want broadband that can handle HDTV on demand at a good price.

Obviously anymore discussion with you is going to come down to -

'I'm the telcom expert and you know nothing" , " No one needs that kind of speed"


All I know is that muni fiber to the curb works and shows we don't need telcom assholes like you telling people what we need or don't need.

So I say go FUC* YOURSELF and farewell.

|Zach|
01-06-2005, 12:55 PM
Friedrich Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher. I have his complete works...auf Deutsch, of course.
That great...I also have a complete set of my favorite works. When you want to get the big leagues give me a call I will help work you into this kind of stuff...

http://www.educationworld.com/a_images/goosebumps.gif

:)

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 12:56 PM
Friedrich Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher. I have his complete works...auf Deutsch, of course.

"Nietzsche is dead."

--God

|Zach|
01-06-2005, 12:57 PM
Fuc* off and TELCOM dude. Your a stupid arrogant nobody. Your expertise is in nothing of importance.

People do want broadband that can handle HDTV on demand at a good price.

Obviously anymore discussion with you is going to come down to -

'I'm the telcom expert and you know nothing" , " No one needs that kind of speed"


All I know is that muni fiber to the curb works and shows we don't need telcom assholes like you telling people what we need or don't need.

So I say go FUC* YOURSELF and farewell.
He gives you actual examples having to do with the disucussion and technical knowlege and you come at hmi with this...seems par for the course...

Cochise
01-06-2005, 12:57 PM
"Nietzsche is dead."

--God

Heh.

I guess he knows whether he was right or not now, eh?

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 12:59 PM
Fuc* off and TELCOM dude. Your a stupid arrogant nobody. Your expertise is in nothing of importance.

People do want broadband that can handle HDTV on demand at a good price.

Obviously anymore discussion with you is going to come down to -

'I'm the telcom expert and you know nothing" , " No one needs that kind of speed"


All I know is that muni fiber to the curb works and shows we don't need telcom assholes like you telling people what we need or don't need.

So I say go FUC* YOURSELF and farewell.

Absolutely hilarious.

When did I ever say muni fiber to the curb didn't work? I know it does -- and this is I think the FIFTH time I've said this -- I'VE DESIGNED AND INSTALLED MUNI HFC NETWORKS.

You didn't say anything about HD-ready broadband, you said "100Mbits/sec to the curb". HDTV and Internet access are two separate things, but I guess I'm an arrogant nobody for pointing that out, too.

It's too bad you're bidding farewell. I think everybody here was enjoying watching you make an ass of yourself.

The world is considerably larger than Overland Park, KS. Some day, you'll realize it all by yourself.

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 01:00 PM
I think everybody here was enjoying watching you make an ass of yourself.

Indeed. I'm sure he'll start another thread soon enough, though.

|Zach|
01-06-2005, 01:02 PM
Indeed. I'm sure he'll start another thread soon enough, though.
The think the gov't should be in charge of ENDelt posting.

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 01:03 PM
Believe it or not when I was his age I harbored a lot of feelings like you mention. I read of Marx and people like him, the early theoriests, and it sounded allright to me. I just figured that the system had been plagued by corruption in early implementations and that's where the brutality and dehumanization came from. It wasn't really until I was reading some things in a philosophy course including stuff by a guy named huxley (not 'a brave new world', another guy with the same last name) and nietzsche's madman,things like that, where it occurred to me that it was all part of the deal. That the massacre and suffering of all these people under communism didn't begin in the mind of a brutal leader or within the walls of governing houses but it start on the desks and flowed from the pens of these desconstructive philosophers in in the 17000-1800s, and that there isn't a way to make something work correctly that is broken at its base.

Warpaint will move on past the point of longing to snuggle deeper into the loving arms of the state as I did.


Is our communist military doing a good job ? Should we sell it off to Kmart ? And that our PUBLIC utilities don't work and we need to go to a system that California used and which created a energy crisis in that state.

Yes. All government is EVIL. They are all communists which must be killed.

Lzen
01-06-2005, 01:03 PM
Warpaint, why do you continually attack htismaqe rather than attack his arguments?

|Zach|
01-06-2005, 01:05 PM
I suppose your one of those that thinks those soldiers in Iraq are a cause of a Communist government military . And that our PUBLIC utilities don't work and we need to go to a system that California used and which created a energy crisis in that state.

Yes. All government is EVIL. They are all communists which must be killed.
You may want to google what bidding farewell means on your internet given to you by a company that has you by the balls

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 01:06 PM
Warpaint, why do you continually attack htismaqe rather than attack his arguments?


Why don't you read the 500 previous posts .

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 01:11 PM
Absolutely hilarious.

When did I ever say muni fiber to the curb didn't work? I know it does -- and this is I think the FIFTH time I've said this -- I'VE DESIGNED AND INSTALLED MUNI HFC NETWORKS.

You didn't say anything about HD-ready broadband, you said "100Mbits/sec to the curb". HDTV and Internet access are two separate things, but I guess I'm an arrogant nobody for pointing that out, too.

It's too bad you're bidding farewell. I think everybody here was enjoying watching you make an ass of yourself.

The world is considerably larger than Overland Park, KS. Some day, you'll realize it all by yourself.


You can't even respond without insulting people that aren't in the telcom business.

You think your a know-it-all but your a clownass.

If your for munibroadband , you sure as hell don't show it. Your duplicitous. First you say your for it then you say people don't need it and people hate it. Yeah, whatever.

Cochise
01-06-2005, 01:11 PM
I suppose your one of those that thinks those soldiers in Iraq are a cause of a Communist government military .

Hey, that's almost a coherent English sentence. Good work.

And that our PUBLIC utilities don't work


You are the who was telling me earlier that the government runs electric utilities.


and we need to go to a system that California used and which created a energy crisis in that state.


Uhh.. what system? the one where the population expands rapidly but they don't build any new power plants for 15 years?


Yes. All government is EVIL. They are all communists which must be killed.

Nah, I dont want to kill them. I thought the same things once.

I wouldn't mourn too long if you took a bath with a radio, however.


Your duplicitous. First you say your for it then you say people don't need it and people hate it.


Are you completely devoid of any logical ability? It is entirely possible for someone to be for something that people don't need and hate. Those are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe you should forget the internet and go back to Mickey Mousecapade on NES

Lzen
01-06-2005, 01:11 PM
Why don't you read the 500 previous posts .

That might be kind of difficult since this thread is only 116 posts now. And I did read it all. You're jumping all over him for being in the industry yet you don't refute most of his solid arguments. In other words, your blind hatred for anything corporate clouds your rationale.

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 01:35 PM
Hey, that's almost a coherent English sentence. Good work.



You are the who was telling me earlier that the government runs electric utilities.



Uhh.. what system? the one where the population expands rapidly but they don't build any new power plants for 15 years?



Nah, I dont want to kill them. I thought the same things once.

I wouldn't mourn too long if you took a bath with a radio, however.



Are you completely devoid of any logical ability? It is entirely possible for someone to be for something that people don't need and hate. Those are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe you should forget the internet and go back to Mickey Mousecapade on NES


Cochise.
My previous post on the military is that people like you probable don't think the military is any good also. Who in the hell is goin to run it then
? Walmart ?

California went to an auction system for energy . It was FAILURE.

And can you even respond without diatribes. I say your just a troll .

|Zach|
01-06-2005, 01:40 PM
I say your just a troll .
Ban Cochise

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 01:41 PM
That might be kind of difficult since this thread is only 116 posts now. And I did read it all. You're jumping all over him for being in the industry yet you don't refute most of his solid arguments. In other words, your blind hatred for anything corporate clouds your rationale.


I KNOW all of his arguments are NOT solid.

You think they are.

If you knew anything about the current state about broadband and the politics , you would know that the TELCOM people and Cable people will use FUD(look it up) to destroy any arguments to prevent affordable fiber to the curb.

I gave like 10 links of muni-broadband success but he could care less.

KCTitus
01-06-2005, 01:53 PM
You think your a know-it-all but your a clownass.

Excuse me, but I believe the proper term is 'assclown', but must agree that clownass did make me chuckle.

Lzen
01-06-2005, 01:56 PM
I read some of your links and I'm still not convinced. Like I said earlier, I hate monopolies. A municipal option would not be a bad thing if(and that's huge if) it doesn't get funded through my tax dollars.

Your military example was not a good example, btw. The DOT was better I suppose. However, sometimes they work well and sometimes they don't. For instance, MODOT sucks. Missouri's highways are terrible. Yet, Kansas has a highly ranked highway system. Do you know why? Kansas has the comprehensive transportation program funding it and Missouri doesn't get much funding for their highways. It all comes down to the tax dollars in this case.

Cochise
01-06-2005, 01:58 PM
Ban Cochise

Yes! BURN...er...BAN HIM!

WORTHLESS TROLL!

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 02:08 PM
http://www.muniwireless.com/reports/
http://news.com.com/City-owned+network+moves+forward/2100-1034_3-5272638.html?tag=nl
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/56298
http://www.municonsortium.com/muni_032204.shtml
Attempt at fiber but prevented by propoganda campaign by big business.

http://www.tricitybroadband.com/

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 02:08 PM
You can't even respond without insulting people that aren't in the telcom business.

You think your a know-it-all but your a clownass.

If your for munibroadband , you sure as hell don't show it. Your duplicitous. First you say your for it then you say people don't need it and people hate it. Yeah, whatever.

I don't show it, or I don't come off as a pompous overzealous prick?

I am all for it. More muni networks means more work, and more money for me. But nobody around here wants to build them after the 1st two went up because NOBODY IS SIGNING UP.

There have been about 6 people participating on this thread over the last few hours, none of them work for telecom companies but me. Yet, they're not only NOT insulted, they're GIVING ME REP. But if you want to project the shortcomings of your argument on me by calling me names, that's fine.

Maybe I wouldn't be so arrogant if I had more shining examples of humility like"

You FU****ING GOAT HERDER. Just because you worked somewhere installing cables doesn't mean you know sh%% or do sh**.


or

When I hear some redneck from Kansas spouting tech , I get kind of pissed.

or maybe

Go back to work redneck.

and finally

Dude. Go back to work installing phone lines that have fallen.

Lzen
01-06-2005, 02:09 PM
Yes! BURN...er...BAN HIM!

WORTHLESS TROLL!

The pond! Throw him into the pond!

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 02:10 PM
The pond! Throw him into the pond!
Yeah, COCHISE is the one we're supposed to throw in the pond! Yeah, that's the ticket!

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 02:12 PM
I KNOW all of his arguments are NOT solid.

You think they are.

If you knew anything about the current state about broadband and the politics , you would know that the TELCOM people and Cable people will use FUD(look it up) to destroy any arguments to prevent affordable fiber to the curb.

I gave like 10 links of muni-broadband success but he could care less.

Uh-oh, somebody knows an Internet buzzword. Look mom, I can look up "FUD" on Wikipedia! And I have a "blog" too!

I read all of your links. And they say exactly what I expected them to say:

That many cities want to build muni networks and the RBOCs and cable companies are trying to stop them.

Your argument was the muni networks are inherently better than privately-run networks. Those articles didn't even ADDRESS that argument, let alone prove it.

And again, you lump all Telecom people together, showing how very little you know about the industry.

Lzen
01-06-2005, 02:12 PM
Yeah, COCHISE is the one we're supposed to throw in the pond! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Well, he turned me into a newt.






I got better.

Cochise
01-06-2005, 02:22 PM
Well, he turned me into a newt.

I got better.

But I'm not a troll! They dressed me up like this!

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 02:40 PM
Uh-oh, somebody knows an Internet buzzword. Look mom, I can look up "FUD" on Wikipedia! And I have a "blog" too!

I read all of your links. And they say exactly what I expected them to say:

That many cities want to build muni networks and the RBOCs and cable companies are trying to stop them.

Your argument was the muni networks are inherently better than privately-run networks. Those articles didn't even ADDRESS that argument, let alone prove it.

And again, you lump all Telecom people together, showing how very little you know about the industry.


The only uneducated fool is yourself . Refering to people as children because they challenge your mediocre knowledge is not helping your case. Anyways you were the fool that started the name calling assault.


Munis are FASTER and BETTER than most privately run networks. I have given links of success stories.

I mentioned this a billion times.


.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 02:55 PM
Munis are FASTER and BETTER than most privately run networks.

I mentioned this a billion times.

.

Yes, you have mentioned it many times.

However, you haven't proven it. The articles you linked to don't either.

Again, those articles talk about muni networks and the challenges they have gotten from cable companies and RBOC's.

Nowhere do those articles assert that muni networks are BETTER, just that they should be allowed to exist.

And I agree, they should be allowed to exist.

HC_Chief
01-06-2005, 02:57 PM
...they should be allowed to exist.

ONLY if voted-for. ;)

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 03:04 PM
ONLY if voted-for. ;)

Absolutely.

One of the HFC networks I did was for a small coop in north-central Iowa. They actually asked their customers if they wanted 1) to have their dividend checks or 2) fiber to all of their houses.

They ended up doing option 2 and now they provide all-digital TV (110 channels with HD and on-demand PPV) 2 phone lines and 1Mbit internet for around $90 a month. The whole system is very cool. I wish I know more about how the head-end stuff works, I just did the transport...

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 03:14 PM
Yes, you have mentioned it many times.

However, you haven't proven it. The articles you linked to don't either.

Again, those articles talk about muni networks and the challenges they have gotten from cable companies and RBOC's.

Nowhere do those articles assert that muni networks are BETTER, just that they should be allowed to exist.

And I agree, they should be allowed to exist.



In this interview there are names of town success stories. Even one in Iowa.
http://news.com.com/2008-1037-5190220.html

.

HC_Chief
01-06-2005, 03:16 PM
Absolutely.

One of the HFC networks I did was for a small coop in north-central Iowa. They actually asked their customers if they wanted 1) to have their dividend checks or 2) fiber to all of their houses.

They ended up doing option 2 and now they provide all-digital TV (110 channels with HD and on-demand PPV) 2 phone lines and 1Mbit internet for around $90 a month. The whole system is very cool. I wish I know more about how the head-end stuff works, I just did the transport...

There's a little town between KC and Lawrence that has that... either Eudora or DeSoto. Pretty kewl - fibre direct to each house. Phone, cable, internet - all over an optics line (no attenuation, unlimited bandwidth).

beavis
01-06-2005, 03:19 PM
My previous post on the military is that people like you probable don't think the military is any good also. Who in the hell is goin to run it then
? Walmart ?
Yes, the militaries bad cause it kilz peoples and does bad stuff to them. Now shut ups you trollz~

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 03:24 PM
In this interview there are names of town success stories. Even one in Iowa.
http://news.com.com/2008-1037-5190220.html

.

See how well being civil works? :D

That's a good article. A few points:

1) It talks about cities building muni networks for economic development. This is one thing I've seen ALOT. For instance, where I worked before I was involved with the City in planning an HFC network. They didn't really care about broadband to the homes however. They wanted to get us (a 3000-person employer in a town of 10000) on THEIR network. Don't think that cities are solely interested in doing "what is best" for the average citizen. They also want to make money.

2) They bring up a great point about the RBOC's and cable companies bitching about muni access to tax dollars. If the local populous VOTES FOR IT, the RBOCs and cables are OUT OF LUCK. Let them cry as far as I'm concerned. If the citizens want to pay a half-cent option sales tax to get muni broadband, it's their right.

3) The city in Iowa referred to in the article is Cedar Falls. Their HFC network is a good one, but it's not fiber to the home (at least not the last time I talked to someone who worked for CFU) it's cable, just like you'd get from ComCast or Mediacom and performs almost the same way. But they do a good job of it, that's true.

And one last thing...look at the article again and see that it talks about LOCAL phone companies. I don't work for a LOCAL phone company. I'm on your side, make no mistake about that. We're the world's largest Internet provider. Muni's need backbone access from somewhere and alot of them buy it from us.

ENDelt260
01-06-2005, 03:26 PM
See how well being civil works?

Fart you, butthole!

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 03:28 PM
One more thing, warpaint...you're in OP,KS and I'm in Iowa. The article does a great job of pointing out a major difference we have:

Do you see large cities like New York City or Los Angeles building their own fiber networks?
In the major cities, the economics are different. If you are in a large city where there are many providers offering services to different segments of customers, the take-rates that you would need to be able to build out a fiber-to-the-home system would be very difficult to achieve. We have something of a reverse digital divide. Communities that are outside the major population centers, where there is less competition, are more likely to be able to build out a fiber-to-the-home system. This isn't to say that cities, such as Los Angeles or New York, may not play an important role supporting fiber development in certain underdeveloped areas. But the likelihood of a fiber-to-the-home overbuild by a municipal provider is a long shot.

warpaint99
01-06-2005, 03:34 PM
One more thing, warpaint...you're in OP,KS and I'm in Iowa. The article does a great job of pointing out a major difference we have:

Do you see large cities like New York City or Los Angeles building their own fiber networks?
In the major cities, the economics are different. If you are in a large city where there are many providers offering services to different segments of customers, the take-rates that you would need to be able to build out a fiber-to-the-home system would be very difficult to achieve. We have something of a reverse digital divide. Communities that are outside the major population centers, where there is less competition, are more likely to be able to build out a fiber-to-the-home system. This isn't to say that cities, such as Los Angeles or New York, may not play an important role supporting fiber development in certain underdeveloped areas. But the likelihood of a fiber-to-the-home overbuild by a municipal provider is a long shot.

Nothing new there.

And also the Cable companies have BLOCKED government involvment in Wi-Fi in cities including KC. Include fiber also.

.

htismaqe
01-06-2005, 03:48 PM
And also the Cable companies have BLOCKED Wi-Fi in cities including KC. Include fiber also.

Wi-Fi isn't the be-all, end-all. Not yet anyway. It has alot of shortcomings. But there's alot of hotspots now and more are going up every day...

Wireless is the one thing RBOCs really fear...why?

Because this isn't about VoIP or minutes or anything else. The RBOCs and cable companies OWN the last mile and they know that wireless keeps them from being untouchable. That's why BellSouth and SBC own Cingular and bought AT&T. That's why Verizon (Bell Atlantic) markets their wireless brand like no other.