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2bikemike
01-05-2005, 01:40 AM
In a candid conversation with PFW last week, Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson recognized that the team’s offseason priority of retaining their own defensive veterans (DE Eric Hicks, FS Jerome Woods, CB William Bartee, etc.) instead of adding outside talent did not yield the results he had hoped for. Far from it, as the Chiefs actually dropped a spot, from 29th to 30th in yards allowed heading into Week 17, and gave up more points in 2004. Peterson stated the Chiefs’ continuing issues defensively were not the fault of Gunther Cunningham, who returned to town as defensive coordinator, and implied that they need to surround Cunningham with players, and even coaches, who are more familiar with his system and can be more effective within it. “Objectively, it hasn’t happened,” Peterson told PFW. “… We haven’t improved the level of defense to where we wanted. And that’s disappointing.” Peterson said he plans to sit down with head coach Dick Vermeil and vice president of player personnel Lynn Stiles to scrutinize the situation. “We know where the problem is and what needs to be fixed,” he said. “We just are going to evaluate it and go from there. I will very readily admit that when it’s all said and done, it was the wrong decision to retain perhaps all of these guys. Now, not all of them played badly, but (we need to find out) are they ascending, plateauing or descending, and that’s what we’re going to do."





Doesn't quite sound like DV's final interview.

Rausch
01-05-2005, 01:42 AM
" Now, not all of them played badly, but (we need to find out) are they ascending, plateauing or descending, and that’s what we’re going to do."

Doesn't quite sound like DV's final interview.

Sounds a helluva' lot like Rufus though...

whoman69
01-05-2005, 07:39 AM
Now if only he could admit he sucks at the draft and give up his job.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 09:33 AM
Now if only he could admit he sucks at the draft and give up his job.

The few times where we're 100% certain Carl flexed his muscle and got the guy he wanted, it's turned out better than average (see Larry Johnson).

The times where we're 100% certain Vermeil flexed his muscle and got the guy that he wanted, well, we got Ryan Sims.

bricks
01-05-2005, 09:51 AM
Ok:

Vermeil: "But at this time we're not 100% convinced what is the most critical
area and why it is the most critical area".

Peterson:"We know where the problem is and what needs to be fixed".

I am so confused! :shake: I'm convinced that Vermeil and Peterson aren't working in conjuction.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 10:59 AM
Ok:

Vermeil: "But at this time we're not 100% convinced what is the most critical
area and why it is the most critical area".

Peterson:"We know where the problem is and what needs to be fixed".

I am so confused! :shake: I'm convinced that Vermeil and Peterson aren't working in conjuction.

I agree. I don't think they're on the same page at all.

Count Alex's Wins
01-05-2005, 11:03 AM
I agree. I don't think they're on the same page at all.

Except when they meet Saturday night for dinner and drinks and have a good laugh.

King_Chief_Fan
01-05-2005, 11:07 AM
I agree. I don't think they're on the same page at all.

Peterson to Vermeil : STFUSD

HC_Chief
01-05-2005, 11:54 AM
If this team has any hopes of contending next season, CP HAS to step in and take charge. DV has proven that he is incapable of making the tough decisions necessary to improve the team as a whole.

It happened in StLoser, it has to happen here... or this team will go down as one of the biggest wastes of offensive talent in league history.

Phobia
01-05-2005, 11:59 AM
If this team has any hopes of contending next season, CP HAS to step in and take charge. DV has proven that he is incapable of making the tough decisions necessary to improve the team as a whole.

It happened in StLoser, it has to happen here... or this team will go down as one of the biggest wastes of offensive talent in league history.

What do you mean "will go down"?

HC_Chief
01-05-2005, 12:01 PM
IF they win a SB, the past three seasons become somewhat forgiveable... not completely; somewhat.

ChiTown
01-05-2005, 12:51 PM
I agree. I don't think they're on the same page at all.

That's sad, really. I thought the combo of these two would be much better than Marty and Carl. Well, it looks like we can at least isolate the problem area now.... ;)

The Bad Guy
01-05-2005, 01:04 PM
IF they win a SB, the past three seasons become somewhat forgiveable... not completely; somewhat.

If they win the SB, I would forgive all of Carl Peterson's faults.

bogie
01-05-2005, 02:02 PM
At least one of them is admitting the mistake publicly. So at least one of them should be focused on fixing the problem. Question is, who has the biggest balls?

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2005, 02:31 PM
I'm almost convinced that DV is the problem here, not Carl. Carl just needs to step up and tell DV and Lynn Stiles this, not PFW. Like mentioned earlier, they are not on the same page, and as far this situation goes, Carl is the one on the right page, not DV, from what we know so far. Anyone agree?

bogie
01-05-2005, 02:39 PM
I'm almost convinced that DV is the problem here, not Carl. Carl just needs to step up and tell DV and Lynn Stiles this, not PFW. Like mentioned earlier, they are not on the same page, and as far this situation goes, Carl is the one on the right page, not DV, from what we know so far. Anyone agree?

IMHO I think they all realize the problem. It seems however that Carl is the only one admitting it.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2005, 02:49 PM
IMHO I think they all realize the problem. It seems however that Carl is the only one admitting it.

But if and when they all admit it, won't it be impossible to do anything because of the dead cap money?

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2005, 02:53 PM
Boy did they f#ck shit up by retaining all those players. Are they stupid or what? lol

bogie
01-05-2005, 02:57 PM
Boy did they f#ck shit up by retaining all those players. Are they stupid or what? lol

Yes sir, they are.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2005, 03:08 PM
Yes sir, they are.

Lets hope a miracle happens and those players get better over the offseason (if they don't get some FAs).

Mr. Laz
01-05-2005, 03:09 PM
Peterson said he plans to sit down with head coach Dick Vermeil and vice president of player personnel Lynn Stiles to scrutinize the situation. “We know where the problem is and what needs to be fixed,”
i'm not sure he CAN KNOW what the problem is


because HE is talking to Stiles .... and i think they might be a big part of the problems.



the chiefs need to hire a GM ... a real one. A Gm that doesn't have a conflict of interest by being the head of the financial part of the chiefs as well.

Mr. Laz
01-05-2005, 03:12 PM
Boy did they f#ck shit up by retaining all those players. Are they stupid or what? lol


and what's really funny is that when the fans said "it was stupid" to keep all the same players the chiefs mouthpiece calls us beer guzzling idiots(or something)


but now that they say it it's the rationale intelligent thing to say.


4321 you Carl, you rat b@stard

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2005, 03:12 PM
I don't see why Carl cares about the dead money, this is his last year anyway. I think he kind of mentioned that at the end of the press conference, yesterday, did he not? If so, then who cares about the dead money? DV and him don't care about the mess they leave behind anyway, or else they'd really look to solve the problem and would have seen it all along.

Calcountry
01-05-2005, 03:30 PM
Now if only he could admit he sucks at the draft and give up his job.
Atmitting that one is an alcoholic is but the first step on the road to recovery. :p

Calcountry
01-05-2005, 03:32 PM
I agree. I don't think they're on the same page at all.
It wouldn't surprise me if Peterson might be hinting at a HC change?

Calcountry
01-05-2005, 03:33 PM
If they win the SB, I would forgive all of Carl Peterson's faults.
...and if they don't?

Chiefs Pantalones
01-05-2005, 03:36 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Peterson might be hinting at a HC change?

I thought about that too, but then I couldn't believe that CP would ever think of firing his hetero-lifemate.

JohnnyV13
01-05-2005, 03:41 PM
Actually...they can save quite a bit of cap money by ditching Morton and Vonnie Holiday.

Morton's cap number for 2005 is 3.8 milliop, with a 7 year overall contract and a 5.5 million SB. Morton has played 3 years, so that leaves around 3 Million of unused bonus. If we cut him after June 1, we save around 2.3 million on our cap.

Vonnie Holiday has a 5 year contract with a 5.5 million SB also. His overall deal is worth 21 million, with 6.7 million in the first two years. Holiday has a 6 million roster bonus coming up this year to trigger the final three years of the contract. Obviously, he's not going to earn that bonus.

Holiday will have to be cut before June 1, because his roster bonus is triggered in March. Even without the bonus, Holiday's 05 cap number is over 4 million. By cutting him there is 3.3 million in unused bonus. Bottom line, we save around 800k off our current cap by cutting him.

That's 3.1 million in cap room, just by cutting two players. Also the chiefs can flip the excess cap room from this year to next year by some relatively simple contract manuevers.

When you give a player performance incentives, if they are "likely to be earned" they are included in that years' cap number. "Likely to be earned is determined by whether the player reached the incentive last year. IF a likely to be earned bonus is NOT earned, the cap charge is given as a credit to the following year.

For example, you add a 04 bonus for Priest Holmes if he scores 25 TDs. Since he's on IR he's not going to score 25 TDs, so that bonus would soak up our current cap excess and flip it to the next year. Of course there might be some problem doing that with a player on IR, so you do this contract trick BEFORE you put Priest on IR.

That's just an example. But with any kind of cap competence, the Chiefs should have at least 8-9 million in cap room by flipping our current excess to next year and cutting Holiday and Morton.

Mr. Laz
01-05-2005, 03:44 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Peterson might be hinting at a HC change?

fine with me...


i dont know what they fug Vermeil does anyway


he doesn't do anything with the defense

he doesn't do anything "directly" with the offense


we walks arounds and says stupid stuff to the media about his players wearing diapers and stuff. But doesn't say anything about the worse defense in the history of the league.


fire Vermeil... looks for another head coach


if we dont find anyone great let Saunders take over for a year.


i know people cringe when they hear that... but honestly, having Al Saunders as head coach with Gunther as DC is going to be the exact same result as keeping vermeil.

heck we might even improve a little bit because without Vermeil we might actually change some defense coaches and players that Vermeil would want to be loyal to.


if Saunder is successful then give him another contract, if not then find another head coach next year and clean house.

Mr. Laz
01-05-2005, 03:49 PM
Actually...they can save quite a bit of cap money by ditching Morton and Vonnie Holiday.

Morton's cap number for 2005 is 3.8 milliop, with a 7 year overall contract and a 5.5 million SB. Morton has played 3 years, so that leaves around 3 Million of unused bonus. If we cut him after June 1, we save around 2.3 million on our cap.

i dont think that's correct


morton's cap number might be 3.8 ... but it's only his 2005 base salary that they chiefs would save

3 million (SB)
2.5 million (base)

costs us .5 million to cut morton this year... if we cut morton AFTER june 1st then it would save us 1 million in cap room this year, but cost us 1.5 million in dead money next year.

it might save us more if the chiefs elect to use the 40/60 split, then it saves us about 1.5 million this year, but will cost us more next year in dead money.

Mike Grose
01-05-2005, 03:51 PM
[Morton's cap number for 2005 is 3.8 milliop, with a 7 year overall contract and a 5.5 million SB. Morton has played 3 years, so that leaves around 3 Million of unused bonus. If we cut him after June 1, we save around 2.3 million on our cap.

Vonnie Holiday has a 5 year contract with a 5.5 million SB also. His overall deal is worth 21 million, with 6.7 million in the first two years. Holiday has a 6 million roster bonus coming up this year to trigger the final three years of the contract. Obviously, he's not going to earn that bonus.]

Or we cut one or both before June 1, accelarate their bonus into the current year and absorb it with the cap money we didn't use this year :banghead: .

Didn't we have about 5 mil we didn't use in 2004?

Calcountry
01-05-2005, 03:55 PM
IMHO I think they all realize the problem. It seems however that Carl is the only one admitting it.
I am a good conspiracy theorist and it goes something like this:

Scene:
Day after the Indy playoff loss, DV's office;

Phone goes brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring

DV: Hello, Yes Carl I have been expecting your call

CP: So WTF is with it with our D? I mean they couldn't even stop em once.

DV: Some of those players just don't have the talent to compete in the NFL, We need a shutdown corner, a MLB, and maybe even a solid pass rusher.

CP: No, that can't be, I drafted those players myself. I hear from a reputable website that it is the scheme and not the players. This Robinson guy, are you sure about him and all his wacky schemes.

DV: Greg is a hard working, talented man who has devoted everything he has to getting the most out of that Defense, I stand by him as you should expect me to.

CP: Come on Dick, I like you and all, but they even have a fire Robinson website created for crhisakes, we have GOT to have a scapegoat for that performance yesterday, heh, and it AINT GONNA BE ME.

DV: I stand by Greg

CP: Look Dick, I don't have a lot of time for this chit, I have to go and speak with the marketing department about how we can squeeze more profits from this exiting offense you have put up there, bottom line, its GROB or You.

DV: Well, if you put it that way.

Calcountry
01-05-2005, 04:02 PM
I am a good conspiracy theorist and it goes something like this:

Scene:
Day after the Indy playoff loss, DV's office;

Phone goes brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring

DV: Hello, Yes Carl I have been expecting your call

CP: So WTF is with it with our D? I mean they couldn't even stop em once.

DV: Some of those players just don't have the talent to compete in the NFL, We need a shutdown corner, a MLB, and maybe even a solid pass rusher.

CP: No, that can't be, I drafted those players myself. I hear from a reputable website that it is the scheme and not the players. This Robinson guy, are you sure about him and all his wacky schemes.

DV: Greg is a hard working, talented man who has devoted everything he has to getting the most out of that Defense, I stand by him as you should expect me to.

CP: Come on Dick, I like you and all, but they even have a fire Robinson website created for crhisakes, we have GOT to have a scapegoat for that performance yesterday, heh, and it AINT GONNA BE ME.

DV: I stand by Greg

CP: Look Dick, I don't have a lot of time for this chit, I have to go and speak with the marketing department about how we can squeeze more profits from this exiting offense you have put up there, bottom line, its GROB or You.

DV: Well, if you put it that way.


SceneII:

DV fuming
DV thinking: FUG it man, no one disses my guy like that, I'll show that smart sonofabitch who knows football. We'll just see if it was the schemes. heck, I have 2 years left on my contract, I have won a SB, I don't have nothing to prove to that sonofbaatch carl. We'll bring in his beloved Carl, keep the players constant, that is what you have to do to perform a valid scientific experiment. You have to isolate the variables in order to proove which one was the problem, so we will keep the players, fire the coach, and just see who knows about football.

DV, typing on his phone Grobs phone #.

bbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring

GR: Hello, Dick, I have been expecting your call.

DV:Greg, well, snifff, this is never easy Gr..

GR: Interupting Dick: Stop it Dick, would it be best for the team if I move on.

Slobbering all over the phone:DV, ummm yes, I think so at this time.

GR: NP, lets hold a PC and let everyone know.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-05-2005, 04:19 PM
The few times where we're 100% certain Carl flexed his muscle and got the guy he wanted, it's turned out better than average (see Larry Johnson).

The times where we're 100% certain Vermeil flexed his muscle and got the guy that he wanted, well, we got Ryan Sims.
This is a good point.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-05-2005, 04:21 PM
I'm almost convinced that DV is the problem here, not Carl. Carl just needs to step up and tell DV and Lynn Stiles this, not PFW. Like mentioned earlier, they are not on the same page, and as far this situation goes, Carl is the one on the right page, not DV, from what we know so far. Anyone agree?
Yes.

patteeu
01-05-2005, 05:22 PM
Ok:

Vermeil: "But at this time we're not 100% convinced what is the most critical
area and why it is the most critical area".

Peterson:"We know where the problem is and what needs to be fixed".

I am so confused! :shake: I'm convinced that Vermeil and Peterson aren't working in conjuction.

That's not necessarily contradictory. They may be speaking from different perspectives (big picture versus detail). From CP's position at the top of the organization, they know that the problem is on the defensive side of the ball and in particular, the atrocious pass defense. From DV's position as a coach he needs to determine whether it's secondary, linebacker, pass rushing or coaching that should be the highest priority for overhaul.

This is just an example, I'm not trying to suggest that these are their thoughts or that these are the right problems.

JohnnyV13
01-05-2005, 06:43 PM
i dont think that's correct


morton's cap number might be 3.8 ... but it's only his 2005 base salary that they chiefs would save

3 million (SB)
2.5 million (base)

costs us .5 million to cut morton this year... if we cut morton AFTER june 1st then it would save us 1 million in cap room this year, but cost us 1.5 million in dead money next year.

it might save us more if the chiefs elect to use the 40/60 split, then it saves us about 1.5 million this year, but will cost us more next year in dead money.


From what I understood, Morton's base salary is 3 million next year. His cap number is the prorated portion of his original signing bonus for that year plus his base salary. Since Morton got 5.5 Million in SB over 7 years, that's approximately 800k, Thus 3.8 million cap figure.

I thought that the June 1 split is 50/50 since june 1 is 1/2 of the calender year. With 3 million in unused bonus, 1.5 million would accelerate into 05 and 1.5 in 06. That means cutting Morton after June 1 would save 2.3 million in 05 cap because his cap number would become 1.5 million instead of 3.8 and cost 1.5 in dead money in 06.