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View Full Version : Are Dv and Carl at odds????


Big Chief Homer
01-05-2005, 06:54 AM
I dont get much chiefs news out here and ive been lurking over all the press conference threads and found a few interviews online and it seem to me that Carl and Dv aren't on the same page.


When together at a Press conference Carl seems to only half agree with Vermiel saying "well we know we have a problem,but i"d like to give the guys one more year"

Then By himself Carl seems to claim to know what the problem is say it will be fixed and say we made a mistake by signing OUR f/a's last year.

I know you shouldnt believe everything you read or hear from those 2,but maybe Carls getting sick of Dv throwing him under the bus.Every mistake Dv has made falls to Carl for letting him do it

Carl said this off season that if the defense failed he would take full blame(as well he should).By saying that he put his faith in Vermiel and he was rewarded with a defense worse than last year.

The last couple of weeks we have heard him say "letting Dv talk him into cutting Donnie Edwards was a huge mistake",and signing all our F/A was a mistake.

How many other times has Dv talked carl into doing something only to have it explode in his face.I think carl put to much faith in Vermiel and he is now starting to regret it.Or at least thats the impression im getting.


from the display with Lj ,the edwards comments and the F/A comments it sounds like Dv may have lost alittle of his pulling power with King Carl.

tomahawk kid
01-05-2005, 06:57 AM
I dont get much chiefs news out here and ive been lurking over all the press conference threads and found a few interviews online and it seem to me that Carl and Dv aren't on the same page.


When together at a Press conference Carl seems to only half agree with Vermiel saying "well we know we have a problem,but i"d like to give the guys one more year"

Then By himself Carl seems to claim to know what the problem is say it will be fixed and say we made a mistake by signing OUR f/a's last year.

I know you shouldnt believe everything you read or hear from those 2,but maybe Carls getting sick of Dv throwing him under the bus.Every mistake Dv has made falls to Carl for letting him do it

Carl said this off season that if the defense failed he would take full blame(as well he should).By saying that he put his faith in Vermiel and he was rewarded with a defense worse than last year.

The last couple of weeks we have heard him say "letting Dv talk him into cutting Donnie Edwards was a huge mistake",and signing all our F/A was a mistake.

How many other times has Dv talked carl into doing something only to have it explode in his face.I think carl put to much faith in Vermiel and he is now starting to regret it.Or at least thats the impression im getting.


from the display with Lj ,the edwards comments and the F/A comments it sounds like Dv may have lost alittle of his pulling power with King Carl.

I think from a personel standpoint, the 2 have been at odds for some time.

I don't think its too much to be worried about.

As far as the Press Conference goes, I wouldn't put too much stock in what was said.

I'm fully expecting the Chiefs to go out and try to get 2-3 defensive free agents.

They're not going to completely rip the defensive personel in public.

Big Chief Homer
01-05-2005, 07:05 AM
agreed,but Im actually hoping theres a rift in the carl ,Dv love fest.If Dick has no say in the defense(F/a,draft,personel, ect.)it would be best for the team.

ROYC75
01-05-2005, 07:23 AM
We have some UFA that we can sign, I think that allows us to be active in the FA market . I'm sure this is the DV/CP comments they are relating to.

Cormac
01-05-2005, 07:27 AM
It amazes me that everybody says DV is only interested in offense. He certainly built a better offense when he moved here. He put most of his effort into that. And he did an incredible job. That was his MO, and his success in StL depended on that. He is infatuated with good offense......but you know what.....I am too. We have been awesome the last few years.

However, it was CP (and others?) who pushed for the drafting of a 1st round RB (LJ). DV wanted Tyler Brayton as a DE. But now DV's an idiot for not giving LJ all he deserves?

Most of this board was clamouring for a WR in the first round last season (remember Rashaun Woods?). Instead the Chiefs FO chose a DT with the top pick.

The previous offseason we spent all of our FA dollars on defense with Barber, Holliday and McCleon, and 5-6 new starters heading into the season.

Yeah, DV is all about the offense.

CrazyHorse
01-05-2005, 07:30 AM
I remember DV saying that he wished he would not have let Robinson talk him into letting Edwards go.

Also, from an organizational standpoint everyone is saying what they need to be saying.

Look at last season for example. If DV is saying that our corners suck before he has a replacement for them, he would be shooting himself in the foot. However, they did try to bring in Vincent, if I remember correctly. Dv has to stand behind what he has, until he has someone to take thier place. Anything less and he makes a bad situation worse.

Another example, DV was disappointed with LJ. He basically went public with that fact and look at the results of that disapproval.

DV is doing what he has to do. He is not a PR man, he is a coach. He has to keep the players happy.

On the other hand, Peterson is PR. Peterson has to keep the fans happy. Thusly, Peterson is saying exacly what needs to be said to keep public interest peaked.

I am not so concerned about what is said, or what is not said. I am more interested in what is done, and not done. This is not the time to evaluate the off season, or the Chiefs front office position. If you want to do that look at last season.

But for next season, we will have to wait to see what is bullshit and what isn't. As for Peterson and DV being pissed at one another. I doubt they are in any worse shape then they were season before last, when Peterson stepped over DV and drafted Johnson.

I do believe however, that Peterson will play a more active role on the defensive side of the ball. I also believe DV will be more receptive to it. That's just speculation though.

CrazyHorse
01-05-2005, 07:35 AM
It amazes me that everybody says DV is only interested in offense. He certainly built a better offense when he moved here. He put most of his effort into that. And he did an incredible job. That was his MO, and his success in StL depended on that. He is infatuated with good offense......but you know what.....I am too. We have been awesome the last few years.

However, it was CP (and others?) who pushed for the drafting of a 1st round RB (LJ). DV wanted Tyler Brayton as a DE. But now DV's an idiot for not giving LJ all he deserves?

Most of this board was clamouring for a WR in the first round last season (remember Rashaun Woods?). Instead the Chiefs FO chose a DT with the top pick.

The previous offseason we spent all of our FA dollars on defense with Barber, Holliday and McCleon, and 5-6 new starters heading into the season.

Yeah, DV is all about the offense.

I appreciate what you are saying. But remember, DV came in and cut half the defense, and built an offense before he did anything else. He has spent 4 years trying to get the defense back to where it was when he got here.

tomahawk kid
01-05-2005, 07:35 AM
I remember DV saying that he wished he would not have let Robinson talk him into letting Edwards go.

Also, from an organizational standpoint everyone is saying what they need to be saying.

Look at last season for example. If DV is saying that our corners suck before he has a replacement for them, he would be shooting himself in the foot. However, they did try to bring in Vincent, if I remember correctly. Dv has to stand behind what he has, until he has someone to take thier place. Anything less and he makes a bad situation worse.

Another example, DV was disappointed with LJ. He basically went public with that fact and look at the results of that disapproval.

DV is doing what he has to do. He is not a PR man, he is a coach. He has to keep the players happy.

On the other hand, Peterson is PR. Peterson has to keep the fans happy. Thusly, Peterson is saying exacly what needs to be said to keep public interest peaked.

I am not so concerned about what is said, or what is not said. I am more interested in what is done, and not done. This is not the time to evaluate the off season, or the Chiefs front office position. If you want to do that look at last season.

But for next season, we will have to wait to see what is bullshit and what isn't. As for Peterson and DV being pissed at one another. I doubt they are in any worse shape then they were season before last, when Peterson stepped over DV and drafted Johnson.

I do believe however, that Peterson will play a more active role on the defensive side of the ball. I also believe DV will be more receptive to it. That's just speculation though.

Agreed.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-05-2005, 07:47 AM
It's starting to appear that Dick may be the bigger idiot of the two.

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 08:46 AM
I appreciate what you are saying. But remember, DV came in and cut half the defense, and built an offense before he did anything else. He has spent 4 years trying to get the defense back to where it was when he got here.

I got news for ya, the defense was BAD when he got here.

milkman
01-05-2005, 08:57 AM
I remember DV saying that he wished he would not have let Robinson talk him into letting Edwards go.

Another example, DV was disappointed with LJ. He basically went public with that fact and look at the results of that disapproval.

That was Carl that said that about Edwards.

As for LJ, we can't begin to speculate what kind of a motivational impact Dick's criticism of LJ had on him, since we rarely saw him in a game .

What he did, he might well have done without those comments from Dick.

Phobia
01-05-2005, 09:00 AM
It's starting to appear that Dick may be the bigger idiot of the two.

I think you're dead on.

Word on the street says DV's ego is so large, Arrowhead stadium can't contain it.

Big Chief Homer
01-05-2005, 09:02 AM
yeah,DV brought in Troy Vincent and tried real hard to sign him...........he tried so hard he told vincent if he came yo K.C. he would have to compete with Bartee for a starting job.

KCTitus
01-05-2005, 09:15 AM
yeah,DV brought in Troy Vincent and tried real hard to sign him...........he tried so hard he told vincent if he came yo K.C. he would have to compete with Bartee for a starting job.

Actually it's worse than that...KC didnt bring in Vincent, rather Vincent came to KC and KC showed no interest in him--or so the story goes.

Cormac
01-05-2005, 09:35 AM
I remember DV saying that he wished he would not have let Robinson talk him into letting Edwards go.

Also, from an organizational standpoint everyone is saying what they need to be saying.

Look at last season for example. If DV is saying that our corners suck before he has a replacement for them, he would be shooting himself in the foot. However, they did try to bring in Vincent, if I remember correctly. Dv has to stand behind what he has, until he has someone to take thier place. Anything less and he makes a bad situation worse.

Another example, DV was disappointed with LJ. He basically went public with that fact and look at the results of that disapproval.

DV is doing what he has to do. He is not a PR man, he is a coach. He has to keep the players happy.

On the other hand, Peterson is PR. Peterson has to keep the fans happy. Thusly, Peterson is saying exacly what needs to be said to keep public interest peaked.

I am not so concerned about what is said, or what is not said. I am more interested in what is done, and not done. This is not the time to evaluate the off season, or the Chiefs front office position. If you want to do that look at last season.

But for next season, we will have to wait to see what is bullshit and what isn't. As for Peterson and DV being pissed at one another. I doubt they are in any worse shape then they were season before last, when Peterson stepped over DV and drafted Johnson.

I do believe however, that Peterson will play a more active role on the defensive side of the ball. I also believe DV will be more receptive to it. That's just speculation though.

Excellent post.

Cormac
01-05-2005, 09:44 AM
I appreciate what you are saying. But remember, DV came in and cut half the defense, and built an offense before he did anything else. He has spent 4 years trying to get the defense back to where it was when he got here.

There is no doubt that DV came here and said "let's build a strong offense". However, as htis said, the D had sucked for 3 years before he got here. They fell apart in Marty's last season, and they were horrible during the Three Stooges period too. How bad was Kurt Schottenheimer's "spinelessjellyfish" soft zone defense? The D didn't go downhill (much) when DV got here, IMO. It just didn't improve - there's an understatement ;).

I think DV's biggest mistake on D was hiring GRob. That led to the release of Donnie Edwards (per CP), and his replacement with Glenn Cadrez :rolleyes:. He listened too closely to too many idiots when making defensive personnel decisions. Since then he has defended his players (no pun intended) because it's not in his nature to blame them to the media. That's something I respect. I have no idea what he's like in team meetings....and my money says he's nothing like as lovey-dovey as he appears. If he was as blind to the defensive needs as many fans seem to think, why would he have been so pissed about the LJ draft pick?

This is a real "chicken and egg" debate, but that is JMHO.

:thumb: