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View Full Version : Vermeil thinks we need to be only decent on defense.


Tuckdaddy
01-05-2005, 03:46 PM
and that is the problem. All he wants from a defense is to slow down a team just enough so we can out score them. The rest of the world wants a defense that hits hard, kills QB's, stuffs the run and refuses to give up big plays. He figures, they can't keep playing this bad. But Dick is flat wrong. They can and will keep playing this bad. If the offense wasn't scoring he'd cut people left and right and get the right players.


I have to say that Vermeil wants to stay loyal and will not want to cut any of them but the King may just force it. I will be stunned if we don't get some FA's, probably not many, 3 max but definitely 2. No matter what Dick says, Carl will not allow nothing to be done this off season and Gun will bitch and grip his head off until he does something.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-05-2005, 03:50 PM
I agree with all of that.

Poor Dick must be crying somewhere since he's not a genius/genious to anyone anymore.

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2005, 03:51 PM
We can only hope.

"Help me Julian Peterson. You're my only hope."

Shooting for mediocrity gets you nowhere. We should be shooting for perfection.

ck_IN
01-05-2005, 03:58 PM
I like defense. I like dlinemen that blot out the sun. I like LB's that make Viking Beserkers nervous. I like CB's that think the ball has their name on it. I like safeties that make WR's pee their pants. That said, DV is right, and I'm a charter member DV hater. If our defense was high teens/low 20's we'd probably be in the playoffs right now instead of Denver.

The question isn't 'where should our defense be?', the question is 'How can we get improvement in 1 of DV's 5yrs?'. I dont' think DV has a clue on that 2nd question.

As for FA's I've no doubt that we'll sign someone. Most likely we'll sign 2 tier two FA's, probably a CB to replace Bartee and a LB to replace Barber but we'll be trading an old nickleback for a new nickleback and an average OLB for the same.

I simply don't see us making that jump from high 20's/low 30's to low 20's. That opportunity has been wasted by DV's magical mystery drafts.

Wallcrawler
01-05-2005, 05:03 PM
Dont be too stunned.

Carl isnt just going to all of a sudden decide to pay the top tier talent the salary that they require to bring them here. He never has, and he never will.

Hell, Priest Holmes won the rushing title during his one year tenure here, and was ripping defenses up left and right, and STILL had to threaten to sit out before he could get paid.

Same thing with Tony Gonzalez.

Carl hates to pay anyone, even when they excel for his team. There is very, very little hope that he will just drop some bigtime cash and get some real defensive talent in here.

Look for maybe another sleeper pickup like Lional Dalton was, or something of that nature. Im not really seeing any blockbuster pickups for the Chiefs, even though there is going to be some outstanding talent in the defensive free agent pool again this offseason.

The stadium is still filling up regularly, so there is no need for Carl to hit the panic button and actually pay out some money to make it look like he really is trying to improve the team just yet.

Out of the big name free agent talent that is going to be available, how many of them do you actually believe will be wearing a Chiefs jersey at the end of Free Agency?

One, maybe if there is an act of God.

Count Alex's Losses
01-05-2005, 05:05 PM
Dont be too stunned.

Carl isnt just going to all of a sudden decide to pay the top tier talent the salary that they require to bring them here. He never has, and he never will.

Hell, Priest Holmes won the rushing title during his one year tenure here, and was ripping defenses up left and right, and STILL had to threaten to sit out before he could get paid.

Same thing with Tony Gonzalez.

Carl hates to pay anyone, even when they excel for his team. There is very, very little hope that he will just drop some bigtime cash and get some real defensive talent in here.

Look for maybe another sleeper pickup like Lional Dalton was, or something of that nature. Im not really seeing any blockbuster pickups for the Chiefs, even though there is going to be some outstanding talent in the defensive free agent pool again this offseason.

The stadium is still filling up regularly, so there is no need for Carl to hit the panic button and actually pay out some money to make it look like he really is trying to improve the team just yet.

Out of the big name free agent talent that is going to be available, how many of them do you actually believe will be wearing a Chiefs jersey at the end of Free Agency?

One, maybe if there is an act of God.


Stop it! You're depressing me!

Wallcrawler
01-05-2005, 05:18 PM
Im not liking it any better than anyone else is.

Wheres the FireCarlPeterson.com petition at? Ill sign that, and get everyone I know to sign it also.


Ive questioned the front office's desire for a championship for a long time, because they just never go after anyone that could really give them a shot.

Maybe its Lamar hunt. He's seen his superbowl victory, waaaay back in superbowl 4. Now he's just concerned with living to see the sun rise tomorrow.

Mr. Laz
01-05-2005, 05:49 PM
settling for mediocrity as pretty much always been are problem



we only need a decent defense
we only need a decent QB
we only need a decent RB




all BS

htismaqe
01-05-2005, 06:01 PM
I'll be the first to say it.

**** Dick Vermeil.

I can't take one more year of this.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-05-2005, 06:04 PM
I'll be the first to say it.

**** Dick Vermeil.

I can't take one more year of this.
The first??????!!!!

Damn.....I've been crushing Vermeil's head on every other post since week #3.

:banghead:

Mr. Christopher
01-05-2005, 06:40 PM
THAT'S the problem. If DV would be aiming for having the #1 defense or even a top ten defensive unit in the league, instead of aiming for mediocrity, then we'd be looking forward to a playoff game or two this post season.

The Red Death
01-05-2005, 06:48 PM
The frustrating thing is that this is what they said at Arrowhead each of the last two years. When are these guys going to learn that when you aim for mediocrity you usually end up getting a lot less? Of course, last year is when the bold changes should have been made. Now, assuming there is a desire to improve the defense, the improvements will be severely inhibited by financial and salary cap restraints. I hate to agree with Whitlock, but he's right when he says Vermeil treats the defense with apathy. He cares about special teams far more than defense. Don't get me wrong, I love watching this offense, but I'm still in shock about how quickly the Chiefs' defense evaporated and that there has been little to no attempt to fix it.

tk13
01-05-2005, 06:49 PM
I'd like to see a quote somewhere where Vermeil has ever said he just hoped to be mediocre on defense... I'm not arguing the success of the defense or the success of player development, just when has anyone involved with this team ever said they just hope to reach mediocre status on defense? I know they've failed miserably but I've never heard Carl or DV or Robinson or Gunther or anybody actually mention they do not want this to be a top ten defense...

Mr. Christopher
01-05-2005, 07:02 PM
I know they've failed miserably but I've never heard Carl or DV or Robinson or Gunther or anybody actually mention they do not want this to be a top ten defense...

I don't have a quote, but I know that they never said: "We do NOT want this to be a top ten defense." On the other hand, I remember reading a quote one time from DV that he felt if the Chiefs could just reach #15 on defense, we'd be in contention for the playoffs.

Now I realize that all of this is hearsay, and none of this is substantiated from quotes. Nevertheless, it does seem to me that there is not near enough attempt to even out the gap between our defense and our offense. I don't mind having a supercharged offense and an average defense. But when you AIM for average, you end up with subaverage.

Mr. Laz
01-05-2005, 07:09 PM
I'd like to see a quote somewhere where Vermeil has ever said he just hoped to be mediocre on defense...
he has said several times that "all we need is to get the defense up to middle level"

paraphrase of course...


our course he didnt say "i ONLY WANT" a middle of the road defense


but that's splitting hairs and you know it


the problem is "settling for"

make the playoff and "see what happens"

"our (insert position here) is good enough to get by"



you never reach perfection, but if you continue to make excuses and settle for mediocre you won't EVEN GET mediocre, you'll get less.

Nightfyre
01-05-2005, 07:18 PM
Yeah, **** that. I remember the Marty Days.

Remember when our solid defense alone (with the worst offense) was good enough to get us to playoff contention. Solid proof right there. Defense wins championships. That paired with a priest holmes and our O-Line would be a GUARANTEED superbowl. Ball-Control. Defense. Martyball. Marty's only flaw was that he needed to pass a little more. Passing is okay, particularly a solid play-action or deep ball that opens stuff up for the running game. The running game is also cheaper than the passing game. You just need your sold RB and Oline. (FBs and TEs dont hurt.) Your QB costs more than all that put together when you have a passing game that is as consistant as your running game. (See Pay-me-more Manning.) Plus with a decent QB, you can run underneath routes to your HBs, TEs, and FBs. You dont need the perfectly accurate QB with the super fast wideouts. You can snag a possession reciever and be game. You dont have to worry about falling behind cuz you can dink and dunk to the endzone. Someday, I'll buy the chiefs and you will see what I mean.

ck_IN
01-05-2005, 07:25 PM
Nightfyre, it sounds to me like you're talking about Marty's current incarnation in SD. Great running game, good defense, above average QB and handy posession WRs with a great TE/FB.

Nightfyre
01-05-2005, 07:27 PM
Nightfyre, it sounds to me like you're talking about Marty's current incarnation in SD. Great running game, good defense, above average QB and handy posession WRs with a great TE/FB.
yeah, somebody must have told him about balance or something.

tk13
01-05-2005, 07:32 PM
You dont have to worry about falling behind cuz you can dink and dunk to the endzone.

I like Martyball, but I would say that I think that is the one flaw to it, if you fell behind, you didn't have the quick-score capabilities to make a big comeback.... "Martyball" in it's purest sense was much easier to use when you were in the lead because you could pound the ball and run the clock, whereas now with a more vertical offense we're never out of any game because we can score points in bunches.

Garcia Bronco
01-05-2005, 07:32 PM
and that is the problem. .

I think he's right....you don't need a defense anymore....about six teams in the playoffs all have defenses in the bottom half on the league in total defense. Because the NFL has slanted the rules enough over the years towards the offense to get scoring up.

Garcia Bronco
01-05-2005, 07:33 PM
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Chicago (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/CHI)161046336.95.218.96722030.541526.712091431:402112

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Nightfyre
01-05-2005, 07:39 PM
I like Martyball, but I would say that I think that is the one flaw to it, if you fell behind, you didn't have the quick-score capabilities to make a big comeback.... "Martyball" in it's purest sense was much easier to use when you were in the lead because you could pound the ball and run the clock, whereas now with a more vertical offense we're never out of any game because we can score points in bunches.
But the point is, if modified to the point where you actually pass when youre behind, you can dink and dunk to the same players you use in your running game. Its cheaper in that sense. And you can comefrom behind.

Amnorix
01-05-2005, 09:07 PM
I agree, you guys only need to be "decent".

The Pats are #4 in scoring and #2 in points allowed, and we're both in the AFC, so I'd rather see you just stay "decent". :thumb:


:p

BigChiefFan
01-06-2005, 11:23 AM
The frustrating thing is that this is what they said at Arrowhead each of the last two years. When are these guys going to learn that when you aim for mediocrity you usually end up getting a lot less? Of course, last year is when the bold changes should have been made. Now, assuming there is a desire to improve the defense, the improvements will be severely inhibited by financial and salary cap restraints. I hate to agree with Whitlock, but he's right when he says Vermeil treats the defense with apathy. He cares about special teams far more than defense. Don't get me wrong, I love watching this offense, but I'm still in shock about how quickly the Chiefs' defense evaporated and that there has been little to no attempt to fix it.
I'm in awe that Carl said what he said. If they go into FA and make a feeble attempt, Carl can shove his season tickets up his ass sideways. That's where my frustration stems from, it's like they don't even give a flyin' **** about improving because the games are sold-out. He can kiss my ass.

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 11:50 AM
and that is the problem. All he wants from a defense is to slow down a team just enough so we can out score them. The rest of the world wants a defense that hits hard, kills QB's, stuffs the run and refuses to give up big plays. He figures, they can't keep playing this bad. But Dick is flat wrong. They can and will keep playing this bad. If the offense wasn't scoring he'd cut people left and right and get the right players.


I have to say that Vermeil wants to stay loyal and will not want to cut any of them but the King may just force it. I will be stunned if we don't get some FA's, probably not many, 3 max but definitely 2. No matter what Dick says, Carl will not allow nothing to be done this off season and Gun will bitch and grip his head off until he does something.
If Dick doesn't get fired, then it is because he simply doesn't give a fug about the Defense either way.

Me personally, I want the Chiefs to shoot for 19 shutout victories, and total domination and humiliation of all of their opponents and the NFL. Yeah, that would be nice.

You can fall short of that goal and still win the Super Bowl.

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 11:53 AM
I like defense. I like dlinemen that blot out the sun. I like LB's that make Viking Beserkers nervous. I like CB's that think the ball has their name on it. I like safeties that make WR's pee their pantsAND TWINS!!!!!

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 11:55 AM
Im not liking it any better than anyone else is.

Wheres the FireCarlPeterson.com petition at? Ill sign that, and get everyone I know to sign it also.


Ive questioned the front office's desire for a championship for a long time, because they just never go after anyone that could really give them a shot.

Maybe its Lamar hunt. He's seen his superbowl victory, waaaay back in superbowl 4. Now he's just concerned with living to see the sun rise tomorrow.
After next year, they are all gone. Heck, the team might even move.

Actually, drink it in bros, these are great days we are livin.

The Arrowhead deal didn't go through, Lamar is getting real frail, Carl's & Dicks contract is up, Priest will definitely hang it up next year. TG and Trent maybe a couple more.

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 11:56 AM
The first??????!!!!

Damn.....I've been crushing Vermeil's head on every other post since week #3.

:banghead:
I have to admit it beer man, you were the first to call his whiney teary eyed ass out.

Cochise
01-06-2005, 11:56 AM
Daddy T thinks he needs to start a new thread about everything.

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 12:01 PM
I'd like to see a quote somewhere where Vermeil has ever said he just hoped to be mediocre on defense... I'm not arguing the success of the defense or the success of player development, just when has anyone involved with this team ever said they just hope to reach mediocre status on defense? I know they've failed miserably but I've never heard Carl or DV or Robinson or Gunther or anybody actually mention they do not want this to be a top ten defense...
They could have been a mediocre defense this year if they could have just recovered a few of the fugging fumbles that were on the ground in front of them. DAM, I don't think I have ever watched more offensive fumble recoveries in my life as I have seen this past season. Shit, its like, OMG, what do I do, the ball is on the ground, I was expecting them to just score quickly, oh dang, they recovered it.

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 12:03 PM
I like Martyball, but I would say that I think that is the one flaw to it, if you fell behind, you didn't have the quick-score capabilities to make a big comeback.... "Martyball" in it's purest sense was much easier to use when you were in the lead because you could pound the ball and run the clock, whereas now with a more vertical offense we're never out of any game because we can score points in bunches.
I think playing with the lead is preferrable in almost any offensive game plan.

The Patriots have scored first in like forever in their games.

Hey, how about that, they win most of them too.

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 12:05 PM
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SanDiego (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/SD)16991335.05.420.06919635.2132454.210994028:301910

Cincinnati (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/CIN)161031335.35.218.98021836.751533.310688730:404016

Carolina (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/CAR)161021336.45.319.29921546.061250.0117107830:042912

Chicago (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/CHI)161046336.95.218.96722030.541526.712091431:402112

Detroit (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/DET)161071337.65.020.09823142.471936.811497631:572010

Houston (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/HOU)16971341.15.619.08920543.41616.712397930:01228

San Francisco (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/SF)161014342.65.420.18320640.36966.710786731:002412

GreenBay (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/GB)16967346.35.719.26919735.05955.611294229:32177

Seattle (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/SEA)161047351.35.419.49722942.46966.79174831:002512


Tennessee (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/TEN)16977357.85.919.96218633.391275.09577428:202212

Minnesota (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/MIN)161018368.95.821.99019645.9101662.511097429:582511

Indianapolis (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/IND)161042370.65.720.79121741.992832.111687731:203617

Oakland (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/OAK)161072371.05.522.910121347.471546.710283733:13149

Kansas City (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/KC)16960377.36.320.47118538.451631.211795727:46238

New Orleans (http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/NO)161067383.85.821.48021038.16785.711996531:423120
Then the NFL will become like tennis. Whoever gets a service break will win the game. Hey, that still means the team with the best D will win.

Calcountry
01-06-2005, 12:07 PM
I'm in awe that Carl said what he said. If they go into FA and make a feeble attempt, Carl can shove his season tickets up his ass sideways. That's where my frustration stems from, it's like they don't even give a flyin' **** about improving because the games are sold-out. He can kiss my ass.
Thats it right their boys and girls. The implosion will be made complete when the Season tickets dont' get sold.