PDA

View Full Version : Rand: Vermeil's Legacy


Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 06:56 AM
RAND: Vermeil's Last Year Will Shape Legacy
Jan 06, 2005, 1:48:06 AM by Jonathan Rand

With his announcement that he wonít coach past 2005, Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil left himself one last year to define his legacy as an NFL head coach. Iím not sure a coach who would rather listen to National Public Radio than read or hear whatís said about him cares all that much about his legacy.

Yet the issueís intriguing because Vermeil possesses Hall of Fame coaching ability but not a Hall of Fame record.

His overall NFL record stands at 116-108, including two NFC championships and one Super Bowl win. Thatís not a bad, considering Vermeil took over three losing franchises. He left the St. Louis Rams after winning a Super Bowl, though heíd built a team that was primed to win for several more years.

And Vermeil didnít exactly help his won-loss record when he took a 14-season break in the midst of his coaching prime. If Vermeil can write a storybook finish to his career with another Super Bowl win, heíd become Hall of Fame material. No matter how his career ends, it will certainly be memorable.

Vermeilís the coach who made burnout a household name. And who became a hero in Philadelphia, where reputations are more often ruined than made. He became just the fourth NFL coach to take two different franchises to a Super Bowl. And the only NFL head coach to lead three different teams to 6-0 starts.

Vermeil turned each of the three losing teams he inherited into playoff teams in the third season. In 1997, he started the most improbable coaching comeback in NFL history. He led the Rams to a Super Bowl victory after two dreadful seasons that begged the question whether Vermeil would be fired.

Now weíll see if Vermeil has one more comeback left. After a 13-3 record in 2003, another trip to the mountain top was widely predicted for him. Instead, Vermeil experienced his seventh losing record in 14 NFL seasons.

Vermeilís last season will require every ounce of his trademark passion and energy, even if itís not at as high a level at age 68 as it was at age 38. Donít be misled by his recent remarks when he understated how many changes are needed on defense. Vermeil didnít build two Super Bowl teams by failing to correct their major weaknesses.

Vermeil is as complete a head coach as youíll find. Heís excelled at assembling potent offenses, developing young talent and motivating and connecting with players.

Lately heís taken flak for supposedly ignoring his defense. He insists that he devotes plenty of time to his defense but the point is really moot. Offenses and defenses are almost two separate football teams and a typical head coachís background lies primarily with one or the other.

The 1985 Bears had one of the NFLís best defenses ever and coordinator Buddy Ryan liked to brag about how little input head coach Mike Ditka had on his unit.

When Tony Dungy, a former defensive back, coached in Tampa Bay, he was accused of being too defensive-minded and ignoring his offense. Nobodyís saying that now Ė not after Peyton Manning threw 49 touchdown passes but the Coltsí defense continues to struggle.

In the salary cap era, itís a tough chore to develop strength on both sides of the ball. Most franchises try to excel on one side and become respectable on the other. Vermeil and team president Carl Peterson have tried to build a powerhouse offense and a respectable defense. Theyíve gotten it only half right so far.

If the Chiefs canít bulk up their defense for 2005, it wonít be for lack of trying. Itís hard to imagine them allowing Vermeil to go into his final hunt low on ammunition.

MichaelH
01-06-2005, 07:01 AM
He's got a lot of work to do. He might be loved in Philadelphia and St. Louis, he won't be in Kansas City if next year is like the last 4 years. It will never happen, but I think he'd find things will come so much easier if he'd just check his ego at the door.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 07:05 AM
It will never happen, but I think he'd find things will come so much easier if he'd just check his ego at the door.
One of the most true statements ever made on this bb.


:thumb:

HemiEd
01-06-2005, 09:25 AM
He's got a lot of work to do. He might be loved in Philadelphia and St. Louis, he won't be in Kansas City if next year is like the last 4 years. It will never happen, but I think he'd find things will come so much easier if he'd just check his ego at the door.

I guess I am really dense on this one, would you please elaborate for me? I have felt all along that he is a very good leader. :hmmm:

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 09:30 AM
I guess I am really dense on this one, would you please elaborate for me? I have felt all along that he is a very good leader. :hmmm:
here we go again.................


:spock:

cash1000
01-06-2005, 09:31 AM
Dick Vermeil's legacy in KC. 5 X $3 MILLLION = $15 MILLION. Thanks to his buddy Carl and the viewing and paying fans of the NFL Dick got PAAAAAAAAYED!!!!!!!

Phobia
01-06-2005, 09:56 AM
Dick Vermeil's legacy:

I can't speak for everybody, but here's what he's left with me. If you put on some rose colored glasses and lie about a whole bunch of stuff, all you are is a liar.

If Dick Vermeil told me water was wet, I would need independent verification.

MichaelH
01-06-2005, 10:09 AM
I guess I am really dense on this one, would you please elaborate for me? I have felt all along that he is a very good leader. :hmmm:

Sure, I'd love to elaborate.
Dick may be a good leader, I'm not sure. He cares for his players and his coaches. In my opinion way too much. He seems afraid to hurt feelings or make enemies, at least publicly. He fails to see his shortcomings on defense because he believes his superior offense can score 45 points a game. He's had four years, and between him and Carl Peterson, they've done nothing. If he doesn't address the defense and get things turned around in 2005, I think it's safe to say he'll be disliked almost as much as Grbac or Bono in KC. That's just my opinion, but regardless of how many offensive records his offense has broken, the fans will always remember no playoff wins and his inability to see his shortcomings.

HC_Chief
01-06-2005, 10:11 AM
Vermeil's legacy IMO: brought the greatest offense this team has ever had, then f*cked it up by putting the defense 100% in the hands of an idiot (Knobinson).

BigChiefFan
01-06-2005, 10:16 AM
Sure, I'd love to elaborate.
Dick may be a good leader, I'm not sure. He cares for his players and his coaches. In my opinion way too much. He seems afraid to hurt feelings or make enemies, at least publicly. He fails to see his shortcomings on defense because he believes his superior offense can score 45 points a game. He's had four years, and between him and Carl Peterson, they've done nothing. If he doesn't address the defense and get things turned around in 2005, I think it's safe to say he'll be disliked almost as much as Grbac or Bono in KC. That's just my opinion, but regardless of how many offensive records his offense has broken, the fans will always remember no playoff wins and his inability to see his shortcomings.
I won't say I will dislike him after his tenure in K.C., but everything else you said is right on the money. Great post.

patteeu
01-06-2005, 10:41 AM
If he doesn't address the defense and get things turned around in 2005, I think it's safe to say he'll be disliked almost as much as Grbac or Bono in KC. That's just my opinion, but regardless of how many offensive records his offense has broken, the fans will always remember no playoff wins and his inability to see his shortcomings.

No way. You are in a tiny minority if you would hold Vermeil in "almost as much" disdain as Grbac or Bono, IMO.

patteeu
01-06-2005, 10:43 AM
I won't say I will dislike him after his tenure in K.C., but everything else you said is right on the money. Great post.

This is what I mean, MichaelH. Even the people who agree with your take on Vermeil, don't follow you down the path of disliking Vermeil almost as much as Grbac or Bono (if things don't turn around).

MichaelH
01-06-2005, 10:50 AM
This is what I mean, MichaelH. Even the people who agree with your take on Vermeil, don't follow you down the path of disliking Vermeil almost as much as Grbac or Bono (if things don't turn around).

It was only speculation. Look at the disdain for Marty on this BB and he did manage to get the Chiefs in the playoffs.

Myself personally, I don't "hate" DV or any other Chief and never will. I guess linking him with Grbacer or Bonehead wasn't appropriate. :rolleyes:

HemiEd
01-06-2005, 10:52 AM
Sure, I'd love to elaborate.
Dick may be a good leader, I'm not sure. He cares for his players and his coaches. In my opinion way too much. He seems afraid to hurt feelings or make enemies, at least publicly. He fails to see his shortcomings on defense because he believes his superior offense can score 45 points a game. He's had four years, and between him and Carl Peterson, they've done nothing. If he doesn't address the defense and get things turned around in 2005, I think it's safe to say he'll be disliked almost as much as Grbac or Bono in KC. That's just my opinion, but regardless of how many offensive records his offense has broken, the fans will always remember no playoff wins and his inability to see his shortcomings.

Thank you, I agree with most of it. My main problem with him is this: I think the game is now too fast for him to run. I think he is a great personel guy, put together a heck of a team. However, I can recall 0 for 4 on critical calls early in the season. If he had been 50/50 they would have been in the playoffs instead of the Donkeys. Even last year, he made stupid decisions during the game. He would make a rediculous challenge and not challenge the ones that he should. He needs to have someone youger run the game time decisions.

Woodrow Call
01-06-2005, 11:19 AM
So far my opinion of Vermeil's Legacy is not good. If you take out last years schedule induced 13-3 record his overall record is 20-28 even with that season he is only 2 games over .500 with no playoff wins. That is not good enough.

When he first arrived I wasnt pleased anyway. I liked Gun and hated anything from St Louis. Then last year I got sucked into the trap and bought into it. If you view my posts prior to the season I was saying that defense would be top 15 if not top 10. Talk about being brainwashed. I can see very clearly now that year was nothing more that scheduling fluke. Hell even Dick admitts that.

He fell into the trap that the Air Coryell, Manning's Colts, and the Post-Vermeil Rams all fell into. That trap is that you only need a mediocre defense to win if you have a great offense. That is a terrible way to build a team.

The one thing that makes me the most upset with Dick isnt his loyalty to his players its that he has turned the Chiefs into a bunch of pussies. Seems like every year since he has been here it has gotten worse. Everyone is hugging and consoleing all the damn time. This reflects on the field. Remember the days before Vermeil when Woods and Wesley would completely kill receivers now they might as well be matadors. Kennison and Stills saying that the Chiefs dont need new players is also a fine example of this.

Vermeil is a good person there is no doubt about that. He has brought us an exciting offense for 4 years, but I would rather win 13-6 Marty style and punch someone the mouth then lose 38-35 every damn game and hug afterwards.

Vermeil does have one shot for redemption. Give me at least a 2 playoff wins and I will be happy he stopped by. But I am afraid next season might just be like the last 4 good offense, bad defense, no playoff wins.

Yippee :banghead:

ck_IN
01-06-2005, 11:23 AM
<i>I can't speak for everybody, but here's what he's left with me. If you put on some rose colored glasses and lie about a whole bunch of stuff, all you are is a liar.</i>

I arrived at this point with the whole Grbac affair. Green is a far better QB then Grbac and I don't blame DV a bit for going after him even though I think he overpaid. But the whole 'we had planned on Elvis and he up and left us in the lurch' line that DV was spewing was a total lie. DV lost all cred with me when he perpetuated that lie. He didn't want Elvis, he wanted Green. He had no intention of not getting Green and that was obvious which was fine. Rather then simply saying this he lied to us all, painted Grbac as a villian and himself as a victim.

A complete and total lie and the first of many from him and CP during this era.

HemiEd
01-06-2005, 11:31 AM
<i>I can't speak for everybody, but here's what he's left with me. If you put on some rose colored glasses and lie about a whole bunch of stuff, all you are is a liar.</i>

I arrived at this point with the whole Grbac affair. Green is a far better QB then Grbac and I don't blame DV a bit for going after him even though I think he overpaid. But the whole 'we had planned on Elvis and he up and left us in the lurch' line that DV was spewing was a total lie. DV lost all cred with me when he perpetuated that lie. He didn't want Elvis, he wanted Green. He had no intention of not getting Green and that was obvious which was fine. Rather then simply saying this he lied to us all, painted Grbac as a villian and himself as a victim.

A complete and total lie and the first of many from him and CP during this era.


Wow, I did not know that! I had never heard that perspective. However, I am so fugging glad Grbac is gone that anyone would have been fine. Grbac blamed everyone but himself. He was a pathetic excuse for a QB, heck the Mayor of San Francisco didn't even want him as a citizen! He literally choked in the closing minutes of the playoff loss to Denver. I sent my Grbac jersey to my nephew in Denver!

MichaelH
01-06-2005, 11:34 AM
<i>I can't speak for everybody, but here's what he's left with me. If you put on some rose colored glasses and lie about a whole bunch of stuff, all you are is a liar.</i>

I arrived at this point with the whole Grbac affair. Green is a far better QB then Grbac and I don't blame DV a bit for going after him even though I think he overpaid. But the whole 'we had planned on Elvis and he up and left us in the lurch' line that DV was spewing was a total lie. DV lost all cred with me when he perpetuated that lie. He didn't want Elvis, he wanted Green. He had no intention of not getting Green and that was obvious which was fine. Rather then simply saying this he lied to us all, painted Grbac as a villian and himself as a victim.

A complete and total lie and the first of many from him and CP during this era.

I remember the whole soap opera. At first, I was mad at Vermiel for letting Grbacer go. After the season he had, how could he have done this? Obviously, it worked out far better. I agree 100%. This was the start of many lies for the Vermeil era.

ck_IN
01-06-2005, 11:45 AM
Understand I'm not defending or supporting Grbac. His time here had passed and his exit was inevitable. DV wanted his QB and that's fine.

The way DV handled it was the problem. He lied through his teeth about it, disparaged the rep of EG and tried to buy sympathy from the public. Unfortunately all too many people swallowed it hook line and sinker.

Brock
01-06-2005, 11:47 AM
disparaged the rep of EG

ROFL

Mr. Laz
01-06-2005, 11:48 AM
as far as i can tell he doesn't have much of a legacy.



i guess maybe we can say he pulled the chiefs outa the basement :hmmm:



mediocre .... i guess that's his legacy, in a word

HemiEd
01-06-2005, 11:49 AM
Understand I'm not defending or supporting Grbac. His time here had passed and his exit was inevitable. DV wanted his QB and that's fine.

The way DV handled it was the problem. He lied through his teeth about it, disparaged the rep of EG and tryed to buy sympathy from the public. Unfortunately all too many people swallowed it hook line and sinker.

I am one of them, all it did was add to my disdain for Grbac. :deevee:
This all happened right afteer I moved to Illinois. I thought it was gospel, I really did. He really earned his money in Baltimore didn't he!

Lzen
01-06-2005, 12:27 PM
<i>I can't speak for everybody, but here's what he's left with me. If you put on some rose colored glasses and lie about a whole bunch of stuff, all you are is a liar.</i>

I arrived at this point with the whole Grbac affair. Green is a far better QB then Grbac and I don't blame DV a bit for going after him even though I think he overpaid. But the whole 'we had planned on Elvis and he up and left us in the lurch' line that DV was spewing was a total lie. DV lost all cred with me when he perpetuated that lie. He didn't want Elvis, he wanted Green. He had no intention of not getting Green and that was obvious which was fine. Rather then simply saying this he lied to us all, painted Grbac as a villian and himself as a victim.

A complete and total lie and the first of many from him and CP during this era.

My only question is how do you know that it was a lie? How do you (as a fan) or I or anyone else here know exactly what went on at One Arrowhead at that time? We don't. We can only speculate. Which is exactly what you're doing. But that doesn't make it fact.

KCTitus
01-06-2005, 12:38 PM
I think the legacy will be one of missed opportunities...

They discovered gold in Holmes, revamped the OL to be one of the best in the NFL and Green had 3 pro bowl years all the while the defense has suffered as one of the worst in the NFL.

They put together the offense but failed miserably in their attempts to fix the defense.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 12:48 PM
No way. You are in a tiny minority if you would hold Vermeil in "almost as much" disdain as Grbac or Bono, IMO.
I already dislike him as much as Grbac. I hope he proves me wrong next season.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 12:51 PM
I think he is a great personel guy, put together a heck of a team.
He put together a heck of an offense... but not a whole team.

HemiEd
01-06-2005, 01:06 PM
He put together a heck of an offense... but not a whole team.

Even though part of it is very disfunctional, I would still call them a team. At no point in the last four years have I heard a single person "call out" another member, Maybe I missed it if they have.
It does not seem like very long ago that we had a somewhat successful bunch of thugs. The thug defense was so good that they set an NFL record of going ten straight games without allowing a touchdown in the second half. You had a guy making over three million a year, as a kick returner selling stolen SUVs. You had another one running pot across the border. I won't even bring up Dale Carters problems.
I am the first one to say the William Bartee is about as big of a mistake as Todd Blackledge, almost. But he aint pimpin stolen cars and pot on the side. He performs as a team member, even though he is inadequate.

I think we should draft a wide receiver! PBJ

KCTitus
01-06-2005, 01:08 PM
I am the first one to say the William Bartee is about as big of a mistake as Todd Blackledge, almost.

Well, other than the fact that Bartee wasnt a top5 overall pick.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 01:13 PM
Even though part of it is very disfunctional, I would still call them a team. At no point in the last four years have I heard a single person "call out" another member, Maybe I missed it if they have.
It does not seem like very long ago that we had a somewhat successful bunch of thugs. The thug defense was so good that they set an NFL record of going ten straight games without allowing a touchdown in the second half. You had a guy making over three million a year, as a kick returner selling stolen SUVs. You had another one running pot across the border. I won't even bring up Dale Carters problems.
I am the first one to say the William Bartee is about as big of a mistake as Todd Blackledge, almost. But he aint pimpin stolen cars and pot on the side. He performs as a team member, even though he is inadequate.

I think we should draft a wide receiver! PBJ
Of course no one "calls anyone out." These are all "profile guys." They're nice guys. Too damn nice if you ask me. No one has any attitude. No one on defense intimidates any other offense. They're doormats.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I want a bunch of thugs and criminals on the team... but someone trying to fire up their team mates on 3rd and 5 would be nice. Someone to make the other teams offense have to gameplan outside of their comfort zone would be nice. Someone who was more into high impact tackles than group hugs would be nice.

I hope Dick makes the changes necessary in the off season. I'll be the first to give him credit if he does. I'm just afraid he won't. Hopefully Carl won't give him a choice though.

Chief Henry
01-06-2005, 01:16 PM
DV legacy in KC will be written after NEXT YEARS
football season

HemiEd
01-06-2005, 01:17 PM
Well, other than the fact that Bartee wasnt a top5 overall pick.

But we "re-upped" with Bartee, I don't think we kept Blackledge around that long did we? That whole thing has become a fog in my memory,

ck_IN
01-06-2005, 01:18 PM
Didn't we have Hicks getting in a fistifight with Sims last season? And there was Freeman clocking Tait. It seemed like Minnis and Holmes got into it as well but I can't recall for sure.

And frankly who cares if there's a love fest in the locker room or simply mutual respect as long as nothing illegal takes place. The Lakers won several trophies with Bryant and Shaq barely speaking to each other. Or at least that's Shaq's take.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 01:19 PM
DV legacy in KC will be written after NEXT YEARS
football season
Yea....that's what the article says. We're just discussing what it may be.

HemiEd
01-06-2005, 01:22 PM
Of course no one "calls anyone out." These are all "profile guys." They're nice guys. Too damn nice if you ask me. No one has any attitude. No one on defense intimidates any other offense. They're doormats.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I want a bunch of thugs and criminals on the team... but someone trying to fire up their team mates on 3rd and 5 would be nice. Someone to make the other teams offense have to gameplan outside of their comfort zone would be nice. Someone who was more into high impact tackles than group hugs would be nice.

I hope Dick makes the changes necessary in the off season. I'll be the first to give him credit if he does. I'm just afraid he won't. Hopefully Carl won't give him a choice though.


You are probably right, maybe this team is as far off center as the thug team was. Somewhere in the middle might be best, I am sure no expert. I know I have a hard time respecting Ray Lewis when I see him fire up his team, he was guilty IMO. I thought the highlight of the year for the Chiefs was when they made him whimper like a whipped dog. :thumb:

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 01:22 PM
Didn't we have Hicks getting in a fistifight with Sims last season? And there was Freeman clocking Tait. It seemed like Minnis and Holmes got into it as well but I can't recall for sure.

And frankly who cares if there's a love fest in the locker room and simply mutual respect as long as nothing illegal takes place. The Lakers won several trophies with Bryant and Shaq barely speaking to each other. Or at least that's Shaq's take.
I'm not sure who you're responding too but as for me infighting or group hugging has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Leadership on the field on the defensive side of the ball is what I'd like to see.

They can beat the hell out of each other or have nightly cirlce-jerks if they want...just get the job done on the field.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-06-2005, 01:24 PM
I thought the highlight of the year for the Chiefs was when they made him whimper like a whipped dog.
That was quite nice....and another offensive highlight I might add.

KCTitus
01-06-2005, 01:40 PM
Leadership on the field on the defensive side of the ball is what I'd like to see.

They can beat the hell out of each other or have nightly cirlce-jerks if they want...just get the job done on the field.

Amen.

Raiderhader
01-06-2005, 02:26 PM
Good grief, the world some of you live in......

Sure, I'd love to elaborate.
Dick may be a good leader, I'm not sure. He cares for his players and his coaches. In my opinion way too much. He seems afraid to hurt feelings or make enemies, at least publicly. He fails to see his shortcomings on defense because he believes his superior offense can score 45 points a game.

Would you care to provide a link to a quote for this? From just about everything I have seen the man say, he acknowledges that you cannot win it all with out a decent, at the very least, defense.

He's had four years, and between him and Carl Peterson, they've done nothing.

I want to focus on the CP portion here, because if you remember correctly it was CP's decision to draft LJ when DV wanted to draft defense. Now I am not a CP hater (nor am I an apologist), I am just pointing out that DV did want to address the defensive personel in the first round of the 2003 draft, and was overruled. Let also not forget that Ryan Sims was added during DV's tenure. Bust or not, we did trade up in a draft to get a high profile defensive player. If you want to criticize the decisions that have been made on defense, fine, but do not criticize DV for not doing anything.

If he doesn't address the defense and get things turned around in 2005, I think it's safe to say he'll be disliked almost as much as Grbac or Bono in KC. That's just my opinion, but regardless of how many offensive records his offense has broken, the fans will always remember no playoff wins and his inability to see his shortcomings.

Whatever.

KCTitus
01-06-2005, 02:36 PM
He's had four years, and between him and Carl Peterson, they've done nothing.

I dont get it...I just dont get it. You can complain what they did was wrong, but it's just flat out lunacy to say they did nothing on defense for 4 years...let me demonstrate:

2001: Drafted: Downing, Beisel, Sands -- 3 of 9 picks on Defense. Signed Cadrez as FA, lost Edwards in FA.

2002: Drafted: Sims, Freeman, Fujita, and a LB in 7th round -- 4 of 5 draft picks used on Defense. I dont recall if any FA's.

2003: Drafted: Mitchell, Battle, Wilkerson, Sharpe, Pile -- 5 of 8 picks used on Defense, signed Barber, Holliday and McCleon in FA.

2004: Drafted: Siavii, Fox, Allen in FA -- 3 of 7 picks on Defense and no FA's.

That's far from 'doing nothing'...

chiefsfan1963
01-06-2005, 02:43 PM
As you all know I'm a big supporter of DV. If DV get's us to the SB and wins next year then he will rank as our best coach, if he doesn't get there and win then he will be ranked as our 3rd best. I rank the top 3 as follows:

1.Stram (2 SB appearances won one)
2.Marty (7 playoff seasons, only reached 1 AFC Champ game and lost)
3.DV* (4 seasons, 1 playoff appearence no playoff wins)

*Both Stram and Marty had the luxury of time, DV has not. Who knows what DV would have accomplished if he had 10 seasons with the Chiefs!

All 3 are excellent coaches and I won't be surprised that one day both Marty and DV will join Stram in the HOF.

Raiderhader
01-06-2005, 02:43 PM
I dont get it...I just dont get it. You can complain what they did was wrong, but it's just flat out lunacy to say they did nothing on defense for 4 years...let me demonstrate:

2001: Drafted: Downing, Beisel, Sands -- 3 of 9 picks on Defense. Signed Cadrez as FA, lost Edwards in FA.

2002: Drafted: Sims, Freeman, Fujita, and a LB in 7th round -- 4 of 5 draft picks used on Defense. I dont recall if any FA's.

2003: Drafted: Mitchell, Battle, Wilkerson, Sharpe, Pile -- 5 of 8 picks used on Defense, signed Barber, Holliday and McCleon in FA.

2004: Drafted: Siavii, Fox, Allen in FA -- 3 of 7 picks on Defense and no FA's.

That's far from 'doing nothing'...


The more complete list of what actions have been taken. Thank you Titus.

Chiefnj
01-06-2005, 02:43 PM
In 2004 they signed a lot of free agents. Dalton from outside the org and then Hicks, Wesley, Woods, Bartee and probably a few other guys. The problem was who they signed. Had they brought in a different DE, SS, FS and CB things might be a lot different.

Raiderhader
01-06-2005, 02:45 PM
As you all know I'm a big supporter of DV. If DV get's us to the SB and wins next year then he will rank as our best coach, if he doesn't get there and win then he will be ranked as our 3rd best. I rank the top 3 as follows:

1.Stram (2 SB appearances won one)
2.Marty (7 playoff seasons, only reached 1 AFC Champ game and lost)
3.DV* (4 seasons, 1 playoff appearence no playoff wins)

*Both Stram and Marty had the luxury of time, DV has not. Who knows what DV would have accomplished if he had 10 seasons with the Chiefs!

All 3 are excellent coaches and I won't be surprised that one day both Marty and DV will join Stram in the HOF.


Time is not a luxury the current crop of Chiefs' fans are willing to afford Dick, even with his accomplished record.

Raiderhader
01-06-2005, 02:47 PM
In 2004 they signed a lot of free agents. Dalton from outside the org and then Hicks, Wesley, Woods, Bartee and probably a few other guys. The problem was who they signed. Had they brought in a different DE, SS, FS and CB things might be a lot different.


I totally agree on the CB position, but as to the safeties, no one knew or expected they would suddenly start playing like crap. Hard to blame anyone for that re-signing.