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View Full Version : Mitchell = Bulluck ????


royr17
01-06-2005, 05:37 PM
Thought this would be a intriguing topic. (FOUND IT OVER ON KCSTAR BOARD.)

In 2000, Keith Bulluck was selected with the 30th pick in the first round. He played very little in his first year, and started only two games in his second year.

Everyone knew he had size and speed, he lacked a fundamental knowlege of the game. He lacked the football instincts.

In 2002, he finally caught on and had a great season.

Looking at Mitchell, the same thing might be happening. Mitchell has played his two best back to back games as a Chief. He looks like he is finally starting to get comfortable. He is starting to hit alot harder and cover more of the field.

Frankly, I don't know what the Chiefs should do.

On the one hand, even if he closes out this season well, it will have only been three games that he has played well. And, there is no guarantees that he will continue to improve.

On the other hand, signing a starter may be keeping a potential star off the field.

Anyways, as I was watching the game, the similarities Bulluck and Mitchell seemed apparent...figured I would see what you all thought.

tk13
01-06-2005, 05:43 PM
I think, unlike some of our other projects (i.e Bartee, Battle, Wilkerson, Freeman), Kawika has shown more playmaking ability than any of them, he actually makes his fair share of positive plays that show he has potential to do some good things, but he still makes mistakes that hurt the team. It's an interesting question... I think Mitchell can keep improving and maybe turn into a solid player, but how soon will that be?

Deberg_1990
01-06-2005, 05:45 PM
I think, unlike some of our other projects (i.e Bartee, Battle, Wilkerson, Freeman), Kawika has shown more playmaking ability than any of them, he actually makes his fair share of positive plays, but he still makes mistakes that hurt the team. It's an interesting question... I think Mitchell can keep improving and maybe turn into a solid player, but how soon will that be?

Its next year or never for Mitchell. Most good players usually "blow up" in their 3rd year. We definately need to draft someone to push him no doubt and I think we will. Hey, Whitlock says he does one thing well at least. He knows how to read and blow up screen plays!

Nightfyre
01-06-2005, 05:47 PM
Its next year or never for Mitchell. Most good players usually "blow up" in their 3rd year. We definately need to draft someone to push him no doubt and I think we will. Hey, Whitlock says he does one thing well at least. He knows how to read and blow up screen plays!
FA is the way to go with LBs this year, Im telling you!

Deberg_1990
01-06-2005, 05:50 PM
FA is the way to go with LBs this year, Im telling you!

True, If we want to load up and try and win it all. I think we will see that.

Cochise
01-06-2005, 06:01 PM
It would probably help if he had some players around him.

I think Barber is a better player than most around here give him credit for, but with his health in question and Fujita looking average, we need help outside and could leave Mitchell inside to grow.

As many needs as we have I think we might be blessed with a wider range of optinons in quality players in the draft, I wouldn't be unhappy if Mitchell was starting on opening day next year.

royr17
01-06-2005, 07:02 PM
Come on guys alot of you guys have to have something to say about this matter.

whoman69
01-06-2005, 07:08 PM
I think that Kawika takes himself out of too many plays to be considered an all-star potential just yet, but he is getting better. With all the holes in our D, I would think we have to take a chance on him next year with having to replace Woods, Barber, McCleon and others. We also cannot just totally concentrate on D and let our O fall. Some mid to late round picks need to be made on the O.

ZootedGranny
01-06-2005, 07:11 PM
Mitchell's play during the last few games of the season puts the Chiefs in an odd situation. Kawika showed improvement, but hasn't yet proved that he's the answer in the middle.

There will be some guys @ MLB in FA, but will the Chiefs pass on them and hope Mitchell keeps ascending, or will they go out and get help, possibly stunting Mitchell's growth? I'm not sure they can move him outside, so it's awkward.

I still think we need to go CB in the first, considering that position is more stacked than usual, and a top 3 CB may still be there when the Chiefs pick.

go bowe
01-06-2005, 07:22 PM
It would probably help if he had some players around him.

I think Barber is a better player than most around here give him credit for, but with his health in question and Fujita looking average, we need help outside and could leave Mitchell inside to grow.

As many needs as we have I think we might be blessed with a wider range of optinons in quality players in the draft, I wouldn't be unhappy if Mitchell was starting on opening day next year.i agree that with all the needs we have at other positions (cbx2, olb, pass rush de), we may have to stick with mitchell...

i think he has the potential to be very good and he really did show some flashes against san diego, imo...

i'm guardedly optimistic that he can get it done in the middle... [crossed-finger smilie]

go bowe
01-06-2005, 07:27 PM
Mitchell's play during the last few games of the season puts the Chiefs in an odd situation. Kawika showed improvement, but hasn't yet proved that he's the answer in the middle.

There will be some guys @ MLB in FA, but will the Chiefs pass on them and hope Mitchell keeps ascending, or will they go out and get help, possibly stunting Mitchell's growth? I'm not sure they can move him outside, so it's awkward.

I still think we need to go CB in the first, considering that position is more stacked than usual, and a top 3 CB may still be there when the Chiefs pick.cb is obvious, but maybe the second round or later would be better...

at best (considering dickie's attitude about rookies), a rookie cb might be the 3rd or 4th cb... we should draft a cb, but not in the first (unless we can somehow snag rolle)...

de's otoh can be much more productive in their rookie year...

there is less to learn and a good pass rusher can contribute a lot in his rookie year...

i'd rather go with a de in the first (unless we can get rolle)...

unlurking
01-06-2005, 08:22 PM
It seems like every one has a similar opinion. The needs at OL (Barber is out even if he were playing well and Fujita playing inconsistently), and secondary (more than obvious), and DE (to help the secondary) grossly outway the need at MLB.

That being said, the one thing that GROB has is a history of selecting quality LBs. Look at Wilson, Gold, and the other blasted ass donks and you can tell that is probably one area he can scout.

I won't mind seeing Kawika starting next year IF it is apparent that steps are being made to improve in other areas of this defense. Hoping for at least 2 new secondary starters, at least one new OLB starter, and a new DE starter (BTW, I wouldn't mind seeing Browning replace Hicks for a cheap internal solution). I think 4 new starters on D is probably the most we can hope for.

LiL stumppy
01-06-2005, 09:44 PM
I think Kawika will be good

Straight, No Chaser
01-06-2005, 10:02 PM
...
There will be some guys @ MLB in FA, but will the Chiefs pass on them and hope Mitchell keeps ascending,...


I hate it when posters use Vermiel "speak" especially his use of the verbs "ascending" and "descending".

I know Kawika played better, on his own terms, the last few games but this guy is going to be our middle linebacker of the future? I could just as easily see him go Tracy Simien. It's possible, in the best of all worlds, that Maz comes back "healthy" and wins MLB in camp. Maybe that will buy Kawika some time and motivate his arse --it would also allow Gun to figure out if he's teachable or not.


--->

tk13
01-06-2005, 10:07 PM
I hate it when posters use Vermiel "speak" especially his use of the verbs "ascending" and "descending".

I know Kawika played better, on his own terms, the last few games but this guy is going to be our middle linebacker of the future? I could just as easily see him go Tracy Simien. It's possible, in the best of all worlds, that Maz comes back "healthy" and wins MLB in camp. Maybe that will buy Kawika some time and motivate his arse --it would also allow Gun to figure out if he's teachable or not.


--->
That's the tough thing about draft picks I guess... sometimes you have to patient because you don't want to give up too soon and watch somebody else turn what should've been your stud player into their stud player. The problem is sometimes you be patient and wait and get Dante Hall and Derrick Blaylock, other times you get William Bartee.

ZootedGranny
01-06-2005, 11:56 PM
I hate it when posters use Vermiel "speak" especially his use of the verbs "ascending" and "descending".

I know Kawika played better, on his own terms, the last few games but this guy is going to be our middle linebacker of the future? I could just as easily see him go Tracy Simien. It's possible, in the best of all worlds, that Maz comes back "healthy" and wins MLB in camp. Maybe that will buy Kawika some time and motivate his arse --it would also allow Gun to figure out if he's teachable or not.


--->

Sorry, I didn't know Vermeil trademarked "ascending." Next time I'll put down my mental thesaurus and plainly say "getting better." We agree on Mitchell's growth in comparison to his early play. He didn't look like Ray Lewis out there, but he seemed to look less and less confused as the season progressed. He still made unforgivable errors, but he started to make positive plays.

Yes, he could get worse. That's the whole point I was trying to make. With his play improving, as slight as it may be, he could be have a good year next year, or have someone step in front of him and take his job, thus the quandary @ MLB.

But do you really want Maz out there pushing him?

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 08:26 AM
As much as I'd like to see improvement at MLB, I think our needs at OLB, DE, and most of all CB, outweigh it.

J Diddy
01-07-2005, 08:27 AM
As much as I'd like to see improvement at MLB, I think our needs at OLB, DE, and most of all CB, outweigh it.

don't forget safety

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 08:30 AM
And people need to get it through their heads.

Maz is not goign to be back next year.

Count Zarth
01-07-2005, 08:31 AM
And people need to get it through their heads.

Maz is not goign to be back next year.

Even if he was, our run D was better with Kawika in there than at ANY TIME with Maslowski.

Lzen
01-07-2005, 09:00 AM
As much as I'd like to see improvement at MLB, I think our needs at OLB, DE, and most of all CB, outweigh it.

Yup.

Chieficus
01-07-2005, 09:41 AM
The best option right now considering that we don't have a crystal ball looking into Mitchell's future, would be to sign a middle-of-the-road FA MLB--someone who can play solid but won't cost us a shot at a quality corner or d-lineman...

That way if Mitchell continues his development, we're set anyway... If he scrubs out, then we have someone who can take his place and maybe not be a big-time playmaker, but will at least keep the middle somewhat sure...

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 09:49 AM
The best option right now considering that we don't have a crystal ball looking into Mitchell's future, would be to sign a middle-of-the-road FA MLB--someone who can play solid but won't cost us a shot at a quality corner or d-lineman...

That way if Mitchell continues his development, we're set anyway... If he scrubs out, then we have someone who can take his place and maybe not be a big-time playmaker, but will at least keep the middle somewhat sure...

I don't have a problem with that as long as his SB/salary don't get in the way of signing help at OLB and a top-flight CB.

Chiefnj
01-07-2005, 09:54 AM
In all honesty, guys like Mitchell, Battle, Siavii, Wilkerson and even maybe Sims all need more time.

All of them (except for Sims) either went to smaller schools, left early/were raw, or are being asked to play a different position. The transition to the NFL is difficult enough when you don't have those factors against you. Couple in the fact that they have gone through two vastly different coordinators with vastly different schemes in the last two years, it is no wonder they are lost or aren't developing as quickly as people would like.

bricks
01-07-2005, 10:11 AM
Thought this would be a intriguing topic. (FOUND IT OVER ON KCSTAR BOARD.)

In 2000, Keith Bulluck was selected with the 30th pick in the first round. He played very little in his first year, and started only two games in his second year.

Everyone knew he had size and speed, he lacked a fundamental knowlege of the game. He lacked the football instincts.

In 2002, he finally caught on and had a great season.

Looking at Mitchell, the same thing might be happening. Mitchell has played his two best back to back games as a Chief. He looks like he is finally starting to get comfortable. He is starting to hit alot harder and cover more of the field.

Frankly, I don't know what the Chiefs should do.

On the one hand, even if he closes out this season well, it will have only been three games that he has played well. And, there is no guarantees that he will continue to improve.

On the other hand, signing a starter may be keeping a potential star off the field.

Anyways, as I was watching the game, the similarities Bulluck and Mitchell seemed apparent...figured I would see what you all thought.

Uh, no. You wanna know what I think? He's going to be the next Willie Lanier!
Period. :rolleyes: We have to take into consideration, this is coming from a defensive matermind in Vermeil. I'm 100% convinced. Keith Bulluck is OUT of the equation!

Straight, No Chaser
01-07-2005, 10:22 AM
The best option right now considering that we don't have a crystal ball looking into Mitchell's future, would be to sign a middle-of-the-road FA MLB--someone who can play solid but won't cost us a shot at a quality corner or d-lineman...

That way if Mitchell continues his development, we're set anyway... If he scrubs out, then we have someone who can take his place and maybe not be a big-time playmaker, but will at least keep the middle somewhat sure...

Who might a middle-of-the-road FA MLB be?

As mentioned before on this thread even though Kawika looked absolutely lost at times while taking himself out of the play it's too early to give up on him. I still think Maz can come back and until I hear otherwise I see both of them playing MLB. Who pushes who really doesn't matter...does it?


---->

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 11:12 AM
Who might a middle-of-the-road FA MLB be?

As mentioned before on this thread even though Kawika looked absolutely lost at times while taking himself out of the play it's too early to give up on him. I still think Maz can come back and until I hear otherwise I see both of them playing MLB. Who pushes who really doesn't matter...does it?


---->

You have heard the (somewhat conflicting) reports that Maz is still visibly limping, right?

Deberg_1990
01-07-2005, 11:14 AM
Who might a middle-of-the-road FA MLB be?

As mentioned before on this thread even though Kawika looked absolutely lost at times while taking himself out of the play it's too early to give up on him. I still think Maz can come back and until I hear otherwise I see both of them playing MLB. Who pushes who really doesn't matter...does it?


---->


This sounds like a guy who might be interesting:

Here is another name that ive never heard of before. Got this from Dr Z's column on cnnsi:

He plays for the Cardinals


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...art2/index.html


One of the NFL's unsung careers belongs to Ron McKinnon, the free-agent middle linebacker once deemed too small to play. He's a nine-year vet, never a Pro Bowl choice but a guy who recorded more than 2,000 tackles. He'll be a free agent. He doesn't know what the future holds. "No one would have heard of me, if not for the Arizona Cardinals," he says without bitterness.

Straight, No Chaser
01-07-2005, 11:17 AM
You have heard the (somewhat conflicting) reports that Maz is still visibly limping, right?

Well, yea but that never stopped him before (or Willie Roaf for that matter). The next few months should be interesting... I'd like to seee Maz come back if he can. I still think he could contribute even if it isn't as a starter. Still, even that doesn't solve the problem of a LB that can cover (or at least fake it well enough).


---->

Straight, No Chaser
01-07-2005, 11:20 AM
This sounds like a guy who might be interesting:

Here is another name that ive never heard of before. Got this from Dr Z's column on cnnsi:

He plays for the Cardinals


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...art2/index.html


One of the NFL's unsung careers belongs to Ron McKinnon, the free-agent middle linebacker once deemed too small to play. He's a nine-year vet, never a Pro Bowl choice but a guy who recorded more than 2,000 tackles. He'll be a free agent. He doesn't know what the future holds. "No one would have heard of me, if not for the Arizona Cardinals," he says without bitterness.

TRUE. Right under my nose too. We'll see what Green does. It wouldn't surprise me if McKinnon stayed in AZ. I think he would a solid pick-up for KC.


---->

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 11:23 AM
Well, yea but that never stopped him before (or Willie Roaf for that matter). The next few months should be interesting... I'd like to seee Maz come back if he can. I still think he could contribute even if it isn't as a starter. Still, even that doesn't solve the problem of a LB that can cover (or at least fake it well enough).


---->

If Maz is playing MLB for us next year, we might as well kiss the season goodbye.