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View Full Version : Holthus on Des Moines radio...you've GOT to hear this...


htismaqe
01-07-2005, 07:21 AM
If you didn't believe there's a rift at 1 Arrowhead Drive before, you will after reading this.

Mitch was on with Larry Cotlar this morning, as he is every Friday. Some things he said:

There are likely to be coaching changes, especially on defense. Gunther is upset, feels like he's been hung out to dry because these aren't his coaches.

Cotlar asked why, and Holthus said Gunther wanted his own coaches but VERMEIL said no. After this season Carl is firmly in GUNTHER'S camp.

Holthus said without question there WILL be player movement and likely ALOT of player movement. Some guys are only here because they are "Dick's guys" and some of those veterans will have to move on. He only mentioned one by name - Johnnie Morton.

He said Carl has some things he wants to do, and he said Gunther really wants to "buy a corner and draft a corner" plus pick up some speed at LB. Sounds like both Gunther and Carl are at Arrowhead working, without Dick. Apparently Vermeil is at his farm in Pennsylvania and there will be some difficult discussions when he gets back.

And then there was the gem of the interview:

After Mitch said all this, Cotlar asked (paraphrased) "It doesn't sound like these moves are going to be popular with Vermeil. Do you think there's any chance that he just decides to hang it up instead of going through it?"

Mitch's EMPHATIC answer, and I quote: "Oh, absolutely...absolutely"

KCTitus
01-07-2005, 07:24 AM
Sounds like Gun and Carl want to do the things that appear to be the obvious things...if DV doesnt like it and leaves, so be it.

stumppy
01-07-2005, 07:24 AM
Maybe, just maybe they are going to actually do something to improve the team.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 07:25 AM
Maybe, just maybe they are going to actually do something to improve the team.

I don't think Vermeil cares about improving the team.

KCTitus
01-07-2005, 07:26 AM
I don't think Vermeil cares about improving the team.

Based upon that, I cant really disagree...but find that to be a bit extreme.

Skip Towne
01-07-2005, 07:29 AM
It wouldn't bother me a bit for VD to leave. We have to fix that defense.

Lzen
01-07-2005, 07:30 AM
Wow. :shake: I've always been in Vermeil's corner but this is beyond insane. If he decides to leave because of this, so be it. I just want to see a respectable defense to go with that championshp-caliber offense.

Lzen
01-07-2005, 07:33 AM
Sounds like Gun knows exactly what needs to be done. Heh, as most of us fans already knew as well. There's been a lot of discussion around here about the coaching staff Gun inherited. I don't think Gun is wrong here. He knows the coaches he inherited aren't getting the job done. If, after 4 years and 2 defensive coordinators, Vermeil can't see that there needs to be some changes then he can go **** himself. :cuss:

Coach
01-07-2005, 07:33 AM
I can see why Gunther is upset, and I mentioned several times that this is NOT Gunther's coaching staff, especially on the defensive side. If I was ever the HC, I would let my OC and DC to decide what they want as their assistants/position coaches. There's no reason for Vermeil to decide why Gunther should have to stick with this crappy assistant coaches.

cdcox
01-07-2005, 07:35 AM
Dick went through the same thing in St.L where he was forced to make changes to keep his job. That turned out very well for him. I'm surprised he didn't learn that lesson of listening to others in the organization when he is overwelmingly in the minority. If he is truely as stubborn as he appears, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him just walk away at this stage of his career.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:36 AM
Wow. Good riddance Dick. Who could ever have imagined that the head coach might be the teams biggest road block to improvement.


:shake:

morphius
01-07-2005, 07:36 AM
Sounds like Gun is thinking a lot like the rest of us here. Get rid of some of the that underperforming position coaches, get 2 corners (draft and FA), more speed at LB. I would like to hear what Gun is thinking about Hicks right now.

Radar Chief
01-07-2005, 07:37 AM
If, after 4 years and 2 defensive coordinators, Vermeil can't see that there needs to be some changes then he can go **** himself. :cuss:

Exactly, I appreciate Vermeil and the offense hes brought to the Chiefs, but if hes nearly as inflexible as this makes it seem, Id rather he just leave.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 07:37 AM
If you didn't believe there's a rift at 1 Arrowhead Drive before, you will after reading this.
interview:

After Mitch said all this, Cotlar asked (paraphrased) "It doesn't sound like these moves are going to be popular with Vermeil. Do you think there's any chance that he just decides to hang it up instead of going through it?"

Mitch's EMPHATIC answer, and I quote: "Oh, absolutely...absolutely"


:thumb:

Seems consistent with King Carl's previous antics. Make bad decisions and then the coaches get frustrated and leave or are run out of town. I guess this is a further indication that the King will stoop, er, stop at nothing to save his azz.

I'm no Vermeil fan but DV had good reason to believe that bringing in Gunther was a ploy and apparently Carl is going to sell out his 'good friend' in an attempt to make the ploy work. Watch, next season a bad defense will be blamed on new personnel and Guther's coaching staff needing time to 'gel.' Carl is basically conceeding next season to an overhaul...

and it might be his last season in KC. Co-inky dinky?

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:38 AM
There's no reason for Vermeil to decide why Gunther should have to stick with this crappy assistant coaches.
More blind loyalty to losers.

Baby Lee
01-07-2005, 07:39 AM
I don't think Vermeil cares about improving the team.
Vermiel thinks the NFL is 100% a chemistry puzzle, when in fact it is a mix of a chemistry puzzle AND a physics puzzle.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 07:40 AM
Based upon that, I cant really disagree...but find that to be a bit extreme.

Well, let me be honest.

I don't think Vermeil doesn't care. I'm sure he does.

I think he honestly feels that the guys he has here now can get it done. In fact, I'll bet he still feels that Greg Robinson was treated unfairly.

I think he's senile and borderline delusional. Either way, I want him on the next bus to Pennsylvania or California or wherever he's taking up residence now.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 07:40 AM
This is ridiculous. What does Vermeil have against improving the team? Is his ego so large that he won't get rid of "Vermeil guys" even if they suck?

Secondly, I can't BELIEVE that Gunther went into the season knowing he had a coaching staff he didn't want.

Screw Vermeil. And you know what, if he wants to leave, that's just fine. We're better off without him.

They would probably promote Gunther to HC. :shake: :banghead:

Claynus
01-07-2005, 07:40 AM
Vermiel thinks the NFL is 100% a chemistry puzzle, when in fact it is a mix of a chemistry puzzle AND a physics puzzle.

And alot of elbow grease...

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:41 AM
:thumb:

Seems consistent with King Carl's previous antics. Make bad decisions and then the coaches get frustrated and leave or are run out of town. I guess this is a further indication that the King will stoop, er, stop at nothing to save his azz.

I'm no Vermeil fan but DV had good reason to believe that bringing in Gunther was a ploy and apparently Carl is going to sell out his 'good friend' in an attempt to make the ploy work. Watch, next season a bad defense will be blamed on new personnel and Guther's coaching stafff needing time to 'gel.'
It seems to me there are waaaaay to many big ego's trying to have everything their way rather than work together and do their individual jobs. Our front office is the poster family for disfunctional.

KCTitus
01-07-2005, 07:41 AM
Wow. Good riddance Dick. Who could ever have imagined that the head coach might be the teams biggest road block to improvement.


:shake:

So exactly when did you start following the Chiefs?

Coach
01-07-2005, 07:41 AM
More blind loyalty to losers.

Unfortunately, that's DV problem. I'm all for loyalty, but this is the NFL, which stands for "Not For Long", if my assistant coaches are making this type of a f*cking performance, I would be at home, selling groceries. About time that the changes are needed. I would had done this last year, not only my DC, but I would had also gave Gunther the choice of who he wants to bring in.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 07:42 AM
:thumb:

Seems consistent with King Carl's previous antics. Make bad decisions and then the coaches get frustrated and leave or are run out of town. I guess this is a further indication that the King will stoop, er, stop at nothing to save his azz.

I'm no Vermeil fan but DV had good reason to believe that bringing in Gunther was a ploy and apparently Carl is going to sell out his 'good friend' in an attempt to make the ploy work. Watch, next season a bad defense will be blamed on new personnel and Guther's coaching staff needing time to 'gel.' Carl is basically conceeding next season to an overhaul...

and it might be his last season in KC. Co-inky dinky?

I call BS. You didn't hear the interview.

Holthus made it very clear. Up to this point, Vermeil was making the decisions.

It hasn't worked, Carl is stepping in.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:42 AM
This is ridiculous. What does Vermeil have against improving the team? Is his ego so large that he won't get rid of "Vermeil guys" even if they suck?


uh............ yes........ this seems to be the pattern.

HemiEd
01-07-2005, 07:42 AM
Maybe, just maybe they are going to actually do something to improve the team.

Geeesh, the grass is always greener isnt't it! Five years ago Gunther made a pathetic embarrassment out of this team, now he is the savior. Wow, how soon we forget. At least this team currently has respectability. I only hope that GC is restricted to defensive restructing. Maybe if they run DV off Al Saunders will step in. I wish the best for the Defense under Gunther without DT and Neil Smith!

Claynus
01-07-2005, 07:43 AM
It seems to me there are waaaaay to many big ego's trying to have everything their way rather than work together and do their individual jobs. Our front office is the poster family for disfunctional.

That's what I was thinking. Gunther shouldn't have even taken the job if he wasn't going to get his own choice of coaches brought in.

I can only imagine what this past season was like. Gunther wanting to cuss out his position coaches and Vermeil stepping in and blocking him from doing so. :shake:

siberian khatru
01-07-2005, 07:43 AM
I don't get DV. Bizarre, if true. Can't believe I'm actually pulling for Carl now.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:44 AM
So exactly when did you start following the Chiefs?
I should have said "the head's coaches stubborness" is the biggest road block......... and 25 or so years ago.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 07:44 AM
More blind loyalty to losers.

I disagree.

Look at it from Granny's perspective. A coach he trusted and admired was run out of town and scapegoated because of the GMs CONSISTENT inability to bring in the talent necessary to make the defense work.

As a ploy to pacifiy the fans and do 'something' Carl brings in someone who he'd unceremoniously run out of town just four years earlier. Now in order for this ploy to work Carl needs to look like he's doing everything possible to help Gunther to succeed but in the process he's alienated DV by publically bringing back a previous head coach of the same team in a subordinate role to himself.

I think with DV this has less to with loyalty to his coaches and more to do with a desire to surround himself with people he trusts...seeing he's doesn't have much left with Carl. :hmmm:

Claynus
01-07-2005, 07:44 AM
Wow, how soon we forget. At least this team currently has respectability.

Yeah, we got so much respect for going 7-9.

Are you another one of these blind Vermeil homers? This isn't pop warner football here. The Chiefs haven't gotten jack shit for results under him.

Coach
01-07-2005, 07:44 AM
htismaqe, is Holthus still talking? If so, please advise.

Thanks.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:45 AM
Well, let me be honest.

I don't think Vermeil doesn't care. I'm sure he does.

I think he honestly feels that the guys he has here now can get it done. In fact, I'll bet he still feels that Greg Robinson was treated unfairly.

I think he's senile and borderline delusional. Either way, I want him on the next bus to Pennsylvania or California or wherever he's taking up residence now.
Belleview I think.

Frazod
01-07-2005, 07:45 AM
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, Dick. Go somewhere else and build half a team. 4321

Baby Lee
01-07-2005, 07:45 AM
Unfortunately, that's DV problem. I'm all for loyalty, but this is the NFL, which stands for "Not For Long", if my assistant coaches are making this type of a f*cking performance, I would be at home, selling groceries. About time that the changes are needed. I would had done this last year, not only my DC, but I would had also gave Gunther the choice of who he wants to bring in.
Nice reference to the greatest sideline soundbyte, evar!!

Jerry Glanville might not have been the best coach, but he gave good byte.

tomahawk kid
01-07-2005, 07:45 AM
I'm completely okay with this.

If DV want to leave, give Saunders the HC position.

Promote one of the position coaches (Charlie Joiner?) to OC or bring back Terry Shea to fill that role.

Keep Gun at DC, load up on defense and make one last run at this thing.

Its time to either put up or shut up for KC.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 07:47 AM
I call BS. You didn't hear the interview.

Holthus made it very clear. Up to this point, Vermeil was making the decisions.

It hasn't worked, Carl is stepping in.

Vermeil didn't make the decision to bring Gunther in the first place. So how can it then be said he was TRULY making decisions?

You cannot tie someone's hands and then turn around and blame them for their inability to function with your handicap being applied.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:47 AM
At least this team currently has respectability.
No...they have offensive respectabbility. The defense is a punch line...literally.

KCTitus
01-07-2005, 07:48 AM
I should have said "the head's coaches stubborness" is the biggest road block......... and 25 or so years ago.

Really, that doesnt change the point, but I was making a little joke...

Marty had his moments (Greg Hill and changing the playbook in the playoffs), Gunther wouldnt change his coordinators and now DV's doing similar stuff. Prior to that, it seem HC's were fired if they started to become successful.

Coach
01-07-2005, 07:48 AM
Nice reference to the greatest sideline soundbyte, evar!!

Jerry Glanville might not have been the best coach, but he gave good byte.

ROFL

Yeah, he was really good at this stuff. I always enjoyed listening to his sound bytes on the sidelines. Hilarious stuff.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 07:48 AM
I'm completely okay with this.

If DV want to leave, give Saunders the HC position.

Promote on of the position coaches (Charlie Joiner?) to OC or bring back Terry Shea.

Keep Gun at DC, load up on defense and make one last run at this thing.

Its time to either put up or shut up for KC.

If Saunders is the head coach we're going to turn into Air KC. :shake:

Coach
01-07-2005, 07:49 AM
No...they have offensive respectabbility. The defense is a punch line...literally.

More like a punching bag.

morphius
01-07-2005, 07:49 AM
:thumb:

Seems consistent with King Carl's previous antics. Make bad decisions and then the coaches get frustrated and leave or are run out of town. I guess this is a further indication that the King will stoop, er, stop at nothing to save his azz.

I'm no Vermeil fan but DV had good reason to believe that bringing in Gunther was a ploy and apparently Carl is going to sell out his 'good friend' in an attempt to make the ploy work. Watch, next season a bad defense will be blamed on new personnel and Guther's coaching staff needing time to 'gel.' Carl is basically conceeding next season to an overhaul...

and it might be his last season in KC. Co-inky dinky?
Just like Al Davis bringing in a consistently underperforming HC with some poor coordinators and a group of big named underachieving players so that it could look like he was trying to build a good team, but was really only worried about putting on a good face for his law suits against the city and the NFL for not selling out the stadium.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:50 AM
I disagree.


what a shock.

ChiTown
01-07-2005, 07:50 AM
.......
I think he honestly feels that the guys he has here now can get it done. In fact, I'll bet he still feels that Greg Robinson was treated unfairly.
..........

Yeah, that's my main problem with this guy. He's in denial, big time.

I knew, at some point, Gun would explode and start demanding some changes, but I didn't think it would happen until after Vermeil was gone. Good for Gun, and I hope CP follows through with allowing these changes to occur.

First order of business, FIRE GUINTA! :banghead:

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 07:51 AM
Just like Al Davis bringing in a consistently underperforming HC with some poor coordinators and a group of big named underachieving players so that it could look like he was trying to build a good team, but was really only worried about putting on a good face for his law suits against the city and the NFL for not selling out the stadium.

Yes, rather like this. Though he managed somehow to build a good team for four years...

Carl has escaped this feat of late. :hmmm:

ChiTown
01-07-2005, 07:51 AM
Just like Al Davis bringing in a consistently underperforming HC with some poor coordinators and a group of big named underachieving players so that it could look like he was trying to build a good team, but was really only worried about putting on a good face for his law suits against the city and the NFL for not selling out the stadium.

Morph

Is this you? WTF is up with this Pooky stuff?

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:52 AM
I was making a little joke...


I know, I got it. Just decided to answer anyway.

tomahawk kid
01-07-2005, 07:52 AM
If Saunders is the head coach we're going to turn into Air KC. :shake:

What the hell were we this season after Priest was hurt?

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 07:53 AM
what a shock.

From where I sit this is the same shit, different day that he did with Marty...

tying the coaches hands with the GMs bad decisions and then scrambling to make it look like the HC was the problem in first place.

With Carl agreeing with Gunther he is basically stating that the defense could have won with these players and Gunther's coaches. :spock: That is a slap at Vermeil.

Chiefnj
01-07-2005, 07:53 AM
More off-season B.S.

Why in the world would Gunther be mad? He knew what he was getting into when he rejoined his old internet-firing buddy. Recall Gunther's brilliant statement that he didn't watch any tape of last year's (2003) defense? Boy, that paid off.

Remember all of those preseason interviews with Dick and Gun where Dick said he and Gun sat down and Gun told him he's going to do X and Y and Dick said "you can do that with our guys?" and Gun said "Hell yeah, take their heart, take their soul..."?


Vermeil has repeatedly said he leaves the Defense to the DC. Why is he going to be upset with defensive changes? Carl admitted the entire staff thought it was best to retain their own players. Most of the guys who were retained, and who had poor seasons, were Gunther's old picks or players.

morphius
01-07-2005, 07:53 AM
Morph

Is this you? WTF is up with this Pooky stuff?
Look on the Garfield thread from yesterday (post 19), I knew I shouldn't have shared because there was no way Phobia would be able to resist changing it...

Baby Lee
01-07-2005, 07:54 AM
Morph

Is this you? WTF is up with this Pooky stuff?
Poor guy. Goaded into some candid banter, and a Mod ran with it as is his want.

morphius
01-07-2005, 07:54 AM
Yes, rather like this. Though he managed somehow to build a good team for four years...

Carl has escaped this feat of late. :hmmm:
Yup, last year we sucked ass.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-07-2005, 07:56 AM
From where I sit this is the same shit, different day that he did with Marty...

tying the coaches hands with the GMs bad decisions and then scrambling to make it look like the HC was the problem in first place.

With Carl agreeing with Gunther he is basically stating that the defense could have won with these players and Gunther's coaches. That is a slap at Vermeil. :spock:
The blame falls on Dick and Carl both. I never said it didn't. There are other coaches that deserve some blame too. That said, I see Dick as the biggest problem right now.

...and I'd like to slap Dick too....











(heh.....I said slap dick........................)

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 07:56 AM
Yup, last year we sucked ass.

No, winning with a last place schedule is good for the soul...

but hardly an indicator of a GOOD team.

HemiEd
01-07-2005, 07:56 AM
Yeah, we got so much respect for going 7-9.

Are you another one of these blind Vermeil homers? This isn't pop warner football here. The Chiefs haven't gotten jack shit for results under him.

No, just a long term Chiefs homer. I do like what he has done, albeit not perfect! :clap:

HemiEd
01-07-2005, 07:57 AM
If Saunders is the head coach we're going to turn into Air KC. :shake:


That would be fine with me! :thumb:

morphius
01-07-2005, 07:57 AM
No, winning with a last place schedule is good for the soul...

but hardly an indicator of a GOOD team.
In the current NFL a last place schedule is a difference of 2 games in a season, sorry not a viable excuse.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 07:57 AM
The blame falls on Dick and Carl both. I never said it didn't. There are other coaches that deserve some blame too. That said, I see Dick as the biggest problem right now.

...and I'd like to slap Dick too....

heh.....I said slap dick........................)

Yes, blame does fall on DV. Like I said, I don't like him, never have. But we've seen Carl do this before and the common denominator has been three different coaches with the same GM.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 07:58 AM
I'll bet he still feels that Greg Robinson was treated unfairly.

VERMEIL: Lord Carl, what about Robinson and the defense?

CARL: They must never again enter this city.

VERMEIL: That was never a condition of our agreement, nor was giving Donnie Edwards to the Chargers.

CARL: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly.

VERMEIL: No.

CARL: Good. It would be unfortunate if I had to leave Gunther Cunningham's garrison here.

http://img111.exs.cx/img111/5421/VADER1.jpg

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 08:00 AM
In the current NFL a last place schedule is a difference of 2 games in a season, sorry not a viable excuse.

Until proven differently, last season was an exception and not the rule of the past seven seasons. :hmmm:

morphius
01-07-2005, 08:01 AM
Until proven differently, last season was an exception and not the rule of the past seven seasons. :hmmm:
And those 4 so called good years are a fluke to the last 15 years for yer raiders.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 08:03 AM
And those 4 so called good years are a fluke to the last 15 years for yer raiders.

Perhaps. But the ratio of winning in their fluke is still greater than Carl's 1 of 7. So.......

Claynus
01-07-2005, 08:03 AM
That would be fine with me! :thumb:

The offense is best when it has balance.

stevieray
01-07-2005, 08:07 AM
Damn, this was going to be a great thread, till Denise showed up and ruined it.

morphius
01-07-2005, 08:08 AM
Perhaps. But the ratio of winning in their fluke is still greater than Carl's 1 of 7. So.......
WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 08:11 AM
WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China?


You brought up the comparison, not I. Ask yourself.

JimNasium
01-07-2005, 08:12 AM
VERMEIL: Lord Carl, what about Robinson and the defense?

CARL: They must never again enter this city.

VERMEIL: That was never a condition of our agreement, nor was giving Donnie Edwards to the Chargers.

CARL: Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly.

VERMEIL: No.

CARL: Good. It would be unfortunate if I had to leave Gunther Cunningham's garrison here.

http://img111.exs.cx/img111/5421/VADER1.jpg
Sometimes I have a difficult time comprehending just how much of a geek you really are. Other times it becomes so painfully obvious that it makes my hair hurt. This is one of those times.

Lzen
01-07-2005, 08:13 AM
Yes, blame does fall on DV. Like I said, I don't like him, never have. But we've seen Carl do this before and the common denominator has been three different coaches with the same GM.

Shut up. WTF do you act like you care about the Chiefs? You're a Faiders fan. 4321

morphius
01-07-2005, 08:13 AM
You brought up the comparison, not I. Ask yourself.
I made an stupid ass comment to TRY and show you how stupid you were being. Obviously I went WAY over your head.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 08:17 AM
Sometimes I have a difficult time comprehending just how much of a geek you really are. Other times it becomes so painfully obvious that it makes my hair hurt. This is one of those times.

Yoda and I will always be with you.

J Diddy
01-07-2005, 08:22 AM
WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China?


UMMMM.
Chinese tea.

:homer:

ROYC75
01-07-2005, 08:25 AM
BOUT DAMN TIME A SHAKE UP IS HAPPENING..........

As one poster said, last time it worked in St Louis..... BTA, they had a weak ass schedule too !

Skip Towne
01-07-2005, 08:28 AM
Shut up. WTF do you act like you care about the Chiefs? You're a Faiders fan. 4321
Really. And she needs to have her name changed.

Phobia
01-07-2005, 08:44 AM
More off-season B.S.

Why in the world would Gunther be mad? He knew what he was getting into when he rejoined his old internet-firing buddy. Recall Gunther's brilliant statement that he didn't watch any tape of last year's (2003) defense? Boy, that paid off.

That's not exactly fair. Gunther made that statement a week after he was hired and 2 weeks before the draft. Jeesh.

The Bad Guy
01-07-2005, 08:47 AM
Good, I hope Gun sticks it up Vermeil's ass.

It's poetic justice. Vermeil was sniffing around the Chiefs all year during Gun's last year and now Gun has Vermeil's wingman in his corner.

What kind of coach tells you you can't assemble your own defensive staff?

It's almost like Vermeil wanted him to fail. It's a shame too. Gun should of taken the job with the Falcons or Jets.

The Bad Guy
01-07-2005, 08:47 AM
Why are people responding to Denise's bullshit?

She's the biggest benedict on this board.

the Talking Can
01-07-2005, 08:48 AM
Damn, this was going to be a great thread, till Denise showed up and ruined it.

she feeds on "controversy" like Takeru Kobayashi with a plate of hotdogs in front of him

http://mensual.prensa.com/mensual/contenido/2003/07/09/hoy/revista/217622.jpg

note which threads she posts on....drama


anyways, back to the point:

Has DV become Joe Paterno right before our eyes?

I have no sympathy for Gunther. If he wasn't smart enough to negotiate questions about staff or personel he has only himself to blame...remember, he kept the 3 stooges. He's pretty dumb. And, he did a terrible job this year.

BUT....if his belated whining helps us make real changes then that is good. And if DV is going to stand in the way of changes that need to be made DV should quit.

I love ya coach, but it sounds like you're in denial.

Chief Henry
01-07-2005, 08:51 AM
It seems to me there are waaaaay to many big ego's trying to have everything their way rather than work together and do their individual jobs. Our front office is the poster family for disfunctional.



REP for sure beer me... I couldn't agree more.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 08:52 AM
Vermeil didn't make the decision to bring Gunther in the first place. So how can it then be said he was TRULY making decisions?

You cannot tie someone's hands and then turn around and blame them for their inability to function with your handicap being applied.

It was the first of many decisions Carl has made because he HAD TO. If DV had gotten his way, Greg Robinson would still be the coordinator of the Chiefs.

Vermeil's hands were NOT tied. All of his assistant coaches on defense were retained, except Joe Vitt. Vermeil got EVERYTHING he wanted in the deal.

shaneo69
01-07-2005, 08:57 AM
I like some aspects of each of the three main players here, Gunther, Carl, and Dick. But these guys have some serious flaws.

I love Gunther, but he is all about excuses. He thinks he can mold the same crappy players that sucked for G Rob into a good defense. Then when they suck again (surprise!) he blames the assistant coaches. Same thing he did as head coach.

Dick has been able to bring an offensive juggernaut to KC, something most of us felt we'd never see in our lifetimes. But he is way too loyal to "good guys" who suck, and he refuses to bring in players who could help the team if they so much as show any inclination whatsoever of putting themselves in the spotlight.

Carl is a piece of work. At the end of the 2000 season, he invites DV to come check out a game at Arrowhead, knowing that DV feels like he still has something to prove after the whole "Mike Martz was the one responsible for the Rams winning the Super Bowl" thing. So Carl hires Dick and Gunther finds out that he is no longer the head coach on the internet. Now four years later, Carl and Gunther are the ones sneaking around behind DV's back, trying to make changes as they see fit, without DV's blessing. The whole thing has come full circle.

Pretty pathetic.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 08:57 AM
Can and TBG hit the nail on the head.

Gunther is NO victim. He set himself up for this. He came back here as the same foot-shuffling porter he left as, agreeing to whatever was put in front of him so that he could coach here. HE is the one who said he could get it done with the current personnel.

As for all this "blame" that Denise wants to put on Carl, notice that the original post by me says NOTHING about BLAME. Holthus didn't BLAME anybody.

In fact, he made it clear that EVERYONE is to blame.

ChiTown
01-07-2005, 09:05 AM
I agree. Gun is no victim.

That said, he better throw his fuggin anger in the right direction and get this thing moving. ie. Demand his own guys come in (coaches), get the type of players that can play his system, etc.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 09:11 AM
I agree. Gun is no victim.

That said, he better throw his fuggin anger in the right direction and get this thing moving. ie. Demand his own guys come in (coaches), get the type of players that can play his system, etc.

Yup.

Better late than never.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 09:15 AM
Carl is a piece of work. At the end of the 2000 season, he invites DV to come check out a game at Arrowhead, knowing that DV feels like he still has something to prove after the whole "Mike Martz was the one responsible for the Rams winning the Super Bowl" thing. So Carl hires Dick and Gunther finds out that he is no longer the head coach on the internet. Now four years later, Carl and Gunther are the ones sneaking around behind DV's back, trying to make changes as they see fit, without DV's blessing. The whole thing has come full circle.

Pretty pathetic.

Excellent post.

Chief Henry
01-07-2005, 09:18 AM
I like some aspects of each of the three main players here, Gunther, Carl, and Dick. But these guys have some serious flaws.

I love Gunther, but he is all about excuses. He thinks he can mold the same crappy players that sucked for G Rob into a good defense. Then when they suck again (surprise!) he blames the assistant coaches. Same thing he did as head coach.

Dick has been able to bring an offensive juggernaut to KC, something most of us felt we'd never see in our lifetimes. But he is way too loyal to "good guys" who suck, and he refuses to bring in players who could help the team if they so much as show any inclination whatsoever of putting themselves in the spotlight.

Carl is a piece of work. At the end of the 2000 season, he invites DV to come check out a game at Arrowhead, knowing that DV feels like he still has something to prove after the whole "Mike Martz was the one responsible for the Rams winning the Super Bowl" thing. So Carl hires Dick and Gunther finds out that he is no longer the head coach on the internet. Now four years later, Carl and Gunther are the ones sneaking around behind DV's back, trying to make changes as they see fit, without DV's blessing. The whole thing has come full circle.

Pretty pathetic.


Very good SoaP Opera wouldn't say??? BTW, good recap on your part.

morphius
01-07-2005, 09:18 AM
Why are people responding to Denise's bullshit?

She's the biggest benedict on this board.
Its like a scab really, you don't want to itch it and pick on it, but sometimes you just can't help yourself.

Chief Henry
01-07-2005, 09:22 AM
If you didn't believe there's a rift at 1 Arrowhead Drive before, you will after reading this.

Mitch was on with Larry Cotlar this morning, as he is every Friday. Some things he said:

There are likely to be coaching changes, especially on defense. Gunther is upset, feels like he's been hung out to dry because these aren't his coaches.

Cotlar asked why, and Holthus said Gunther wanted his own coaches but VERMEIL said no. After this season Carl is firmly in GUNTHER'S camp.

Holthus said without question there WILL be player movement and likely ALOT of player movement. Some guys are only here because they are "Dick's guys" and some of those veterans will have to move on. He only mentioned one by name - Johnnie Morton.

He said Carl has some things he wants to do, and he said Gunther really wants to "buy a corner and draft a corner" plus pick up some speed at LB. Sounds like both Gunther and Carl are at Arrowhead working, without Dick. Apparently Vermeil is at his farm in Pennsylvania and there will be some difficult discussions when he gets back.

And then there was the gem of the interview:

After Mitch said all this, Cotlar asked (paraphrased) "It doesn't sound like these moves are going to be popular with Vermeil. Do you think there's any chance that he just decides to hang it up instead of going through it?"

Mitch's EMPHATIC answer, and I quote: "Oh, absolutely...absolutely"



Thanks for posting this, this is GOOD STUFF...I wish 1460am
would come in down here in lap land :banghead: I can't get any IOWA HAWK conversation down here and it tikes me off.

Phobia
01-07-2005, 09:22 AM
I find it hard to believe that Carl and Gunther are "sneaking around behing DV's back. If Holtus knows about this, DV knows, too. He either:
1. Needs a vacation so badly, he's taking one no matter what.
2. Is really and truly delegating defensive responsibilities this time around.
3. Doesn't give a shit because it's his last year.

I like to think it's probably a combination of 1 and 2.

I have heard whispers out of One Arrowhead for a long time that DV is the egomaniac responsible for much of the strife in the franchise. Considering several of the other whispers, DV and CP will part ways on poor terms unless the Lombardi lands at One Arrowhead next February.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 09:38 AM
I find it hard to believe that Carl and Gunther are "sneaking around behing DV's back. If Holtus knows about this, DV knows, too. He either:
1. Needs a vacation so badly, he's taking one no matter what.
2. Is really and truly delegating defensive responsibilities this time around.
3. Doesn't give a shit because it's his last year.

I like to think it's probably a combination of 1 and 2.

I have heard whispers out of One Arrowhead for a long time that DV is the egomaniac responsible for much of the strife in the franchise. Considering several of the other whispers, DV and CP will part ways on poor terms unless the Lombardi lands at One Arrowhead next February.

Yeah, if somebody (I see Shane did) got the impression that Holthus was implying that Dick was in Pennsylvania and Carl and Gunther were at Arrowhead BEHIND HIS BACK, I apologize.

Nothing at all in the interview made it sound sneaky, it sounded to me like Vermeil knows full-well what's going on at Arrowhead, but really didn't want (or need?) to be a part of it.

I actually think it's a combination of ALL THREE of your points, Phil, but more 1 and 3 rather than 1 and 2.

After the "absolutely" line (about Vermeil potentially hanging it up) they spent a good 5 minutes talking about how drained Vermeil is and how unusual this lame duck season is shaping up. They spent quite a bit of time pointing out how uncommon it is to go into a season knowing it's your last, most people don't make the decision to retire and then come back for one last season.

Mitch also mentioned several times that EVERYONE in the front office knew what needed to be done, with both the coaching staff and free agency/draft. But every time he mentioned DOING something about it, he said Gunther or Carl. Every time he mentioned it being hard to do, or upsetting to cut players, he talked about DV.

morphius
01-07-2005, 09:43 AM
Yeah, if somebody (I see Shane did) got the impression that Holthus was implying that Dick was in Pennsylvania and Carl and Gunther were at Arrowhead BEHIND HIS BACK, I apologize.

Nothing at all in the interview made it sound sneaky, it sounded to me like Vermeil knows full-well what's going on at Arrowhead, but really didn't want (or need?) to be a part of it.

I actually think it's a combination of ALL THREE of your points, Phil, but more 1 and 3 rather than 1 and 2.

After the "absolutely" line (about Vermeil potentially hanging it up) they spent a good 5 minutes talking about how drained Vermeil is and how unusual this lame duck season is shaping up. They spent quite a bit of time pointing out how uncommon it is to go into a season knowing it's your last, most people don't make the decision to retire and then come back for one last season.

Mitch also mentioned several times that EVERYONE in the front office knew what needed to be done, with both the coaching staff and free agency/draft. But every time he mentioned DOING something about it, he said Gunther or Carl. Every time he mentioned it being hard to do, or upsetting to cut players, he talked about DV.
Yeah, I remember this DV quote from the final press confrence:

[quote]We spent three and a half hours as a defensive staff this morning in a very intense, emotional meeting. I got my a-$% chewed out pretty good. I listened; I learned some things and it was good.[quote]

Which leads me to believe he knows full well what Gun has in mind.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 09:45 AM
Which leads me to believe he knows full well what Gun has in mind.

It not only leads me to believe he knows what Gun wants, but that he doesn't want to be around when some his "boys" on the defensive coaching staff get let go.

Brock
01-07-2005, 09:45 AM
Going to be hard to draw free agents when they all know Vermeil's gone after this year.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 09:48 AM
Damn...it's sounding like next year could really, REALLY suck.

ptlyon
01-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Damn...it's sounding like next year could really, REALLY suck.

3 or 4 years after that too.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Damn...it's sounding like next year could really, REALLY suck.

I've already resigned myself to it.

The more I think about this "lame duck" season, the more I think there's absolutely no hope of anything good coming out of it.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 09:52 AM
3 or 4 years after that too.

Depends who the new coach and GM.

It would be cruel and unusual punishment if Gun actually plants the seeds of a good D this year, and they come to fruition in two or three years. Only to have the O totally collapse after this next season.

We're probably going to be looking at getting a new QB, WR corps and two or three spots on the O-Line.

At least we will have Waters/Gonzo/LJ.

tomahawk kid
01-07-2005, 09:58 AM
Damn...it's sounding like next year could really, REALLY suck.

What makes you say that?

If we can fix the "D", we should be okay.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 10:00 AM
What makes you say that?

If we can fix the "D", we should be okay.

That's a huge if.

And we don't know how the decline of players like Shields, Roaf and Kennison are going to effect the offense. Plus we're looking at a very inexperienced WR corps.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 10:02 AM
No, winning with a last place schedule is good for the soul...

You really don't even follow the NFL, do you?

Where you finish in your division determines TWO of the 16 games.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 10:04 AM
Damn, this was going to be a great thread, till Denise showed up and ruined it.
What is phrases often heard (er, read) at chiefsplanet.com?

Nightfyre
01-07-2005, 10:06 AM
Depends who the new coach and GM.

It would be cruel and unusual punishment if Gun actually plants the seeds of a good D this year, and they come to fruition in two or three years. Only to have the O totally collapse after this next season.

We're probably going to be looking at getting a new QB, WR corps and two or three spots on the O-Line.

At least we will have Waters/Gonzo/LJ.
We'd still have Wiegman I hope to. Hes a damn fine center.

Brock
01-07-2005, 10:07 AM
And we don't know how the decline of players like Shields, Roaf and Kennison are going to effect the offense.

None of those three players is declining.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 10:08 AM
None of those three players is declining.

You're fooling yourself if you think that. Roaf clearly showed his age at times this year. Shields didn't, I guess but he's getting up there. Kennison was caught from behind a few times.

tomahawk kid
01-07-2005, 10:11 AM
You're fooling yourself if you think that. Roaf clearly showed his age at times this year. Shields didn't, I guess but he's getting up there. Kennison was caught from behind a few times.

Holy sh!t.

Batton down the hatches!

Brock
01-07-2005, 10:12 AM
You're fooling yourself if you think that. Roaf clearly showed his age at times this year. Shields didn't, I guess but he's getting up there. Kennison was caught from behind a few times.

Roaf mostly dominated, as usual, as did Shields. Kennison had his best year as a pro, period. Watch football for a few more years, then get back to us with your opinion. Maybe it will be worth something then.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 10:14 AM
Roaf mostly dominated, as usual, as did Shields. Kennison had his best year as a pro, period. Watch football for a few more years, then get back to us with your opinion. Maybe it will be worth something then.

Dude, remember the Carolina game? Mike Rucker was beating Roaf quite a bit. Kennison had his best year as a pro, yes, but he still got caught from behind. That would have never happened two years ago.

They're OLD football players. It happens.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 10:16 AM
I like some aspects of each of the three main players here, Gunther, Carl, and Dick. But these guys have some serious flaws.

I love Gunther, but he is all about excuses. He thinks he can mold the same crappy players that sucked for G Rob into a good defense. Then when they suck again (surprise!) he blames the assistant coaches. Same thing he did as head coach.

Dick has been able to bring an offensive juggernaut to KC, something most of us felt we'd never see in our lifetimes. But he is way too loyal to "good guys" who suck, and he refuses to bring in players who could help the team if they so much as show any inclination whatsoever of putting themselves in the spotlight.

Carl is a piece of work. At the end of the 2000 season, he invites DV to come check out a game at Arrowhead, knowing that DV feels like he still has something to prove after the whole "Mike Martz was the one responsible for the Rams winning the Super Bowl" thing. So Carl hires Dick and Gunther finds out that he is no longer the head coach on the internet. Now four years later, Carl and Gunther are the ones sneaking around behind DV's back, trying to make changes as they see fit, without DV's blessing. The whole thing has come full circle.

Pretty pathetic.

Aside from the 'behind the back' remark, which I don't think is true seeing that DV openly expressed his reservation of having Gunther return and Carl openly hired him anyway thus if Gun and Carl are working to fix something without DV he can hardly claim he's out of the loop and he was overriden from the beginning, you've nailed it.

Everyone of the three has/had something to prove and it doesn't seem like all three of them are on the same page to do it...

and with Carl claiming his biggest career mistake was 'allowing' GR to convince him to let go of Donnie Edwards and is now siding with Gunther in believing that a big mistake this season was not bringing in his coaches to fix the "D" it looks like Carl is still missing the common denominator in why these coaches seem be faltering. :hmmm:

bricks
01-07-2005, 10:17 AM
Dude, remember the Carolina game? Mike Rucker was beating Roaf quite a bit. Kennison had his best year as a pro, yes, but he still got caught from behind. That would have never happened two years ago.

They're OLD football players. It happens.

Kennison HAD his best games when the games didn't count. I still think he's not #1 wr material. But, an adequate #2 wr. Mike Rucker is one of the best DE's in the game, Willie Roaf was hurt in the Panthers game.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 10:17 AM
I made an stupid ass comment to TRY and show you how stupid you were being. Obviously I went WAY over your head.


Nah, in your stupid ass comment you end up pointing out how much more of a loser CP has been than you intended...

that didn't go over my head at all.

go bowe
01-07-2005, 10:26 AM
Sometimes I have a difficult time comprehending just how much of a geek you really are. Other times it becomes so painfully obvious that it makes my hair hurt. This is one of those times.ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Iowanian
01-07-2005, 10:30 AM
I don't know that I believe Vermeil doesn't "care about improving the team".........I think he is just one of those guys, who if they like someone, can't separate business and friendship.

Vermiel Likes Giunta and co, feels loyalty, and can't "see" that they really suck. How the CB coach has kept his job is Beyond me.

I used to work for a guy just like him......hired locals he liked, let them sponge off of him.......a "salesmen" who was a crook and NEVER sold a thing in 4 years, a methhead brother, a data entry kid that was dislexic..but worked fast.

He's been bankrupts since 6 months after myself and 3 other guys left.

I'm glad to hear that Gunther at least knows what HE wants to fix the defense.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 10:33 AM
I don't know that I believe Vermeil doesn't "care about improving the team".........I think he is just one of those guys, who if they like someone, can't separate business and friendship.

Vermiel Likes Giunta and co, feels loyalty, and can't "see" that they really suck. How the CB coach has kept his job is Beyond me.

I used to work for a guy just like him......hired locals he liked, let them sponge off of him.......a "salesmen" who was a crook and NEVER sold a thing in 4 years, a methhead brother, a data entry kid that was dislexic..but worked fast.

He's been bankrupts since 6 months after myself and 3 other guys left.

I'm glad to hear that Gunther at least knows what HE wants to fix the defense.


Agreed. I am not a Granny fan but I cannot believe he does not care about improving the team.

Ask yourself, if you believe hiring someone is a mistake are YOU going to condone them bringing their staff along as well. Or are you going to try to keep your people in place and hope the new guy can make things work with them while simultaneously hoping that the Boss sees that hiring the guy was a mistake in the first place....and that a short term fix for a long term problem was NOT going to work.

Iowanian
01-07-2005, 10:37 AM
Nah, in your stupid ass comment you end up pointing out how much more of a loser CP has been than you intended...

that didn't go over my head at all.

ITs not really that difficult to understand it wouldn't take much for anything to go "over your head"...........since its obviously wedged so deeply near your shipping and Receiving dept.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 10:38 AM
ITs not really that difficult to understand it wouldn't take much for anything to go "over your head"...........since its obviously wedged so deeply near your shipping and Receiving dept.

Oh, I understood his point. I just wanted him to see that it ended up making Carl look worse...

which works for me. :thumb:

Sure-Oz
01-07-2005, 10:39 AM
Anything to improve this team, esp that damn D!!

Bob Dole
01-07-2005, 10:41 AM
Aside from the 'behind the back' remark, which I don't think is true seeing that DV openly expressed his reservation of having Gunther return and Carl openly hired him anyway thus if Gun and Carl are working to fix something without DV he can hardly claim he's out of the loop and he was overriden from the beginning, you've nailed it.


Strange. Bob Dole missed that.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 10:42 AM
Sounds like Gun and Carl want to do the things that appear to be the obvious things...if DV doesnt like it and leaves, so be it.
Al Saunders could be the HC, fug DV.

Nightfyre
01-07-2005, 10:42 AM
Al Saunders could be the HC, fug DV.
No. Can you say Mike Martz?

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 10:45 AM
Dick went through the same thing in St.L where he was forced to make changes to keep his job. That turned out very well for him. I'm surprised he didn't learn that lesson of listening to others in the organization when he is overwelmingly in the minority. If he is truely as stubborn as he appears, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him just walk away at this stage of his career.
Dick needs to stick it out, I mean he asked us to stick it out with that chitty D.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 10:47 AM
It seems to me there are waaaaay to many big ego's trying to have everything their way rather than work together and do their individual jobs. Our front office is the poster family for disfunctional.
Thats Right, Carl should go to.

The Bad Guy
01-07-2005, 10:48 AM
Dude, remember the Carolina game? Mike Rucker was beating Roaf quite a bit. Kennison had his best year as a pro, yes, but he still got caught from behind. That would have never happened two years ago.

They're OLD football players. It happens.

One game against a great DE?

Roaf was awesome this year. He had a couple of bad snaps, but the guy is tops at his position.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 10:49 AM
Geeesh, the grass is always greener isnt't it! Five years ago Gunther made a pathetic embarrassment out of this team, now he is the savior. Wow, how soon we forget. At least this team currently has respectability. I only hope that GC is restricted to defensive restructing. Maybe if they run DV off Al Saunders will step in. I wish the best for the Defense under Gunther without DT and Neil Smith!
If DV goes, then the job should go to AS.

:thumb:

Iowanian
01-07-2005, 10:49 AM
I thought Roaf declined this year........he was beaten alot more than last year.

Chief Henry
01-07-2005, 10:50 AM
ITs not really that difficult to understand it wouldn't take much for anything to go "over your head"...........since its obviously wedged so deeply near your shipping and Receiving dept.


BRILLIANT ROFL

BigChiefFan
01-07-2005, 10:50 AM
The bottomline is the Chiefs MUST improve the defense to even come close to competiting for a championship next year. Vermeil seems blind to this or just doesn't want to get his hands dirty and is allowing CP and Gunther to take the reigns with it. Either way, he needs to own up to the fact that the defense is utter shit and quit making excuses. It makes him sound either too damn loyal or a complete bafoon that really doesn't even know his own weaknesses. Either way something must be done. The fans have voiced their displeasure and believe it or not, Carl has listened ( no ticket increase). The man is very sharp, he's a shark that has his pulse on the entire fanbase. He knows what he can and can't get by with. Don't believe me,? He has 16 years and counting with no tangiable TEAM accomplishments( Super Bowl Victories, AFC Champions) , the stadium is still full, and he has absolutely zero chance of losing his job. CP will do just enough to get by. If he goes beyond me expectations, I will give the man credit, but the previous 16 years of disappointment, don't leave me ecstatic with the hope that he will go after players that actually will make us legit.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 10:51 AM
Vermeil didn't make the decision to bring Gunther in the first place. So how can it then be said he was TRULY making decisions?

You cannot tie someone's hands and then turn around and blame them for their inability to function with your handicap being applied.
You just have to stir up shit dont you. Its like a fuggin reflex, you don't even know you are doing it, do you ?

bricks
01-07-2005, 10:53 AM
I thought Roaf declined this year........he was beaten alot more than last year.

that's okay. the guy has an excuse, his knees are extremely banged up, and remember he's getting older, so his road to recovery isn't as good. His still one of the best OT's in the game. I love the guy.

Wallcrawler
01-07-2005, 10:53 AM
I said it before in another thread.

I think that Dick Vermiel has taken the improvement of the team as far as he can. He brought an outstanding offense to Kansas City, and really knows his offense. However, he knows nothing of defense, evaluating defensive talent, and is too friendly with the current guys with the team to let them go when they arent getting the job done.

They might be great guys, but they damn sure cant play/coach. Time for them to go.


Holding out for a guy to come around is one thing, like we saw with Dante Hall. But its been 4 seasons now, and the defense is still getting owned by every offense that they play against.


Dick would have been better suited as just an offensive specialist, rather than a Head Coach. He is pretty much the opposite of Gunther. All Gun knew was defense, and nothing of offense. He had a .500 record.

Dick is too loyal, too friendly with the players and coaches to the point where it is hurting the team keeping the dead weight on board just because they happen to be good guys.


I think if Dick refuses to make the proper changes, then Carl and Gun need to step in and get something done.

Dartgod
01-07-2005, 10:53 AM
As for all this "blame" that Denise wants to put on Carl, notice that the original post by me says NOTHING about BLAME. Holthus didn't BLAME anybody.

In fact, he made it clear that EVERYONE is to blame.
Shhhhhh.....

You're getting in the way of her....uh, his...er, it's agenda.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 10:54 AM
What the hell were we this season after Priest was hurt?
We have 2 top flight running backs and an OL, that just isn't going to happen.

StcChief
01-07-2005, 10:55 AM
Sounds like Gun will get his way with the D and coaches
which he should.

Vermeil will stick around for the chance for the 3rd SB and his place in NFL history.

I see no reason he would leave knowing about the D's problems. Let Gun make some D decisions

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 10:57 AM
You brought up the comparison, not I. Ask yourself.
You see???

WTF don't you change your nickname or something, fug. :cuss:

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:00 AM
she feeds on "controversy" like Takeru Kobayashi with a plate of hotdogs in front of him

http://mensual.prensa.com/mensual/contenido/2003/07/09/hoy/revista/217622.jpg

note which threads she posts on....drama


anyways, back to the point:

Has DV become Joe Paterno right before our eyes?

I have no sympathy for Gunther. If he wasn't smart enough to negotiate questions about staff or personel he has only himself to blame...remember, he kept the 3 stooges. He's pretty dumb. And, he did a terrible job this year.

BUT....if his belated whining helps us make real changes then that is good. And if DV is going to stand in the way of changes that need to be made DV should quit.

I love ya coach, but it sounds like you're in denial.
Yep, he will just spout off a blizzard of statistics that will demonstrate that they are not really that bad, really.

BigChiefFan
01-07-2005, 11:01 AM
I said it before in another thread.

I think that Dick Vermiel has taken the improvement of the team as far as he can. He brought an outstanding offense to Kansas City, and really knows his offense. However, he knows nothing of defense, evaluating defensive talent, and is too friendly with the current guys with the team to let them go when they arent getting the job done.

They might be great guys, but they damn sure cant play/coach. Time for them to go.


Holding out for a guy to come around is one thing, like we saw with Dante Hall. But its been 4 seasons now, and the defense is still getting owned by every offense that they play against.


Dick would have been better suited as just an offensive specialist, rather than a Head Coach. He is pretty much the opposite of Gunther. All Gun knew was defense, and nothing of offense. He had a .500 record.

Dick is too loyal, too friendly with the players and coaches to the point where it is hurting the team keeping the dead weight on board just because they happen to be good guys.


I think if Dick refuses to make the proper changes, then Carl and Gun need to step in and get something done.

Agreed!!!! Vermeil needs to realize that football is about being aggressive and knocking the shit out of the other player. There isn't time for holding hands. The man is in complete denial if he wants to give players like Bartee another shot. The experiment should have been over when Bartee was a FA last year. Vermeil mentioned, Mike Maslowski, Mike ****ing Maslowski?, like he's counting on him being back. They think after his severe injury that he can not only come back, but be a signifigant contributor. They are in denial and it's exhausting.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 11:02 AM
You just have to stir up shit dont you. Its like a fuggin reflex, you don't even know you are doing it, do you ?

Oh give me a break.

This situation had complicated written all over it from the beginning...when Carl gave DV the list of candidates and Gunther was number one.

The fact that King Carl is now apparently siding with Gun is not a surprise. Gun is probably the person who is telling Carl what he wants to hear... the problems on the team are coaching. Carl wants to believe this.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:04 AM
I agree. Gun is no victim.

That said, he better throw his fuggin anger in the right direction and get this thing moving. ie. Demand his own guys come in (coaches), get the type of players that can play his system, etc.
You know, come to think of it, getting fired the way he did must have really sucked.

What a better way to enact revenge, but to come back in and completely fug up a franchise, and get to blame it on someone else. :p

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:04 AM
Oh give me a break.

This situation had complicated written all over it from the beginning...when Carl gave DV the list of candidates and Gunther was number one.

The fact that King Carl is now apparently siding with Gun is not a surprise. Gun is probably the person who is telling Carl what he wants to hear... the problems on the team are coaching. Carl wants to believe this.

WTF? The problem is the players on defense. EVERYONE knows that.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:05 AM
What a better way to enact revenge, but to come back in and completely fug up a franchise, and get to blame it on someone else.

Take their soul, kill the franchise. Take their heart, kill the head coach.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:07 AM
It not only leads me to believe he knows what Gun wants, but that he doesn't want to be around when some his "boys" on the defensive coaching staff get let go.
Didn't he give them a hint in that Press conference, "This is my last year, and I certainly would understand if you guys had an opportunity to coach somewhere else, than to go for it." Sounds like he was saying get out while the getting is good, don't wait to be fired.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 11:07 AM
WTF? The problem is the players on defense. EVERYONE knows that.


Then why bring in one coach you'd run out of town years earlier?

And then when the problem worsens, why blame the fact that you did not have your own staff on hand?

Dartgod
01-07-2005, 11:08 AM
Gun is probably the person who is telling Carl what he wants to hear... the problems on the team are coaching. Carl wants to believe this.
S T F U, Carl has admitted that there are coaching AND personnel problems on defense.

You are a shit-stirrer. That is an undeniable fact.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:08 AM
Then why bring in one coach you'd run out of town years earlier?

That was LAST OFFSEASON. :banghead:

Clearly everyone at One Arrowhead Drive now knows we have to get better players for the defense.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 11:09 AM
Take their soul, kill the franchise. Take their heart, kill the head coach.


that is so completely evil... :fire: ROFL

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 11:11 AM
That was LAST OFFSEASON. :banghead:

Clearly everyone at One Arrowhead Drive now knows we have to get better players for the defense.


Right. And now the excuse for the next season, possibly two, is that the new coaches and new players need time to gel. Of course then there will be a new HC so the staff Gun assembles might not even be around afterall...

if this had been done last season (new players and coaches) then they would have had a season of rebuilding the defense under their belt and one year of DV still as HC with a window still open...

but this way, who knows.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:13 AM
I said it before in another thread.

I think that Dick Vermiel has taken the improvement of the team as far as he can. He brought an outstanding offense to Kansas City, and really knows his offense. However, he knows nothing of defense, evaluating defensive talent, and is too friendly with the current guys with the team to let them go when they arent getting the job done.

They might be great guys, but they damn sure cant play/coach. Time for them to go.


Holding out for a guy to come around is one thing, like we saw with Dante Hall. But its been 4 seasons now, and the defense is still getting owned by every offense that they play against.


Dick would have been better suited as just an offensive specialist, rather than a Head Coach. He is pretty much the opposite of Gunther. All Gun knew was defense, and nothing of offense. He had a .500 record.

Dick is too loyal, too friendly with the players and coaches to the point where it is hurting the team keeping the dead weight on board just because they happen to be good guys.


I think if Dick refuses to make the proper changes, then Carl and Gun need to step in and get something done.
The whole family thing sure was looked on differently when we were 9-0 last year.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:14 AM
Right. And now the excuse for the next season, possibly two, is that the new coaches and new players need time to gel. Of course then there will be a new HC so the staff Gun assembles might not even be around afterall...

WHAT?

What coach, player or front office person said ANYTHING about that?

You are talking out of your ass. Now I see why everyone dislikes you.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:15 AM
that is so completely evil... :fire: ROFL

It's a nice conspiracy theory. ROFL

Dartgod
01-07-2005, 11:15 AM
WHAT?

What coach, player or front office person said ANYTHING about that?

You are talking out of your ass. Now I see why everyone dislikes you.
What took you so long?

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 11:16 AM
WHAT?

What coach, player or front office person said ANYTHING about that?

You are talking out of your ass. Now I see why everyone dislikes you.

If this had been done last season (new players and coaches) then they would have had a season of rebuilding the defense under their belt and one year of DV still as HC with a window still open...

but this way, who knows.

Of course they are not going to SAY it and I'm not saying they did.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:16 AM
Oh give me a break.

This situation had complicated written all over it from the beginning...when Carl gave DV the list of candidates and Gunther was number one.

The fact that King Carl is now apparently siding with Gun is not a surprise. Gun is probably the person who is telling Carl what he wants to hear... the problems on the team are coaching. Carl wants to believe this.
Fug all that football shit for a minute, I was talking about you. WTF is it with you anyway. Every single fuggin post that you put up is negative. I mean it screams out of the puter. If someone is for something ,you are agianst it. No, there is a real conspiracy where there isn't one.

Heck, its funny chit to see you get pasted, and bashed, so you must be into massochism or something cause you keep coming back for more. :shake:

Bob Dole
01-07-2005, 11:16 AM
Right. And now the excuse for the next season, possibly two, is that the new coaches and new players need time to gel. Of course then there will be a new HC so the staff Gun assembles might not even be around afterall...

if this had been done last season (new players and coaches) then they would have had a season of rebuilding the defense under their belt and one year of DV still as HC with a window still open...

but this way, who knows.

Shut up woman, and bake Bob Dole a pie.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:17 AM
S T F U, Carl has admitted that there are coaching AND personnel problems on defense.

You are a shit-stirrer. That is an undeniable fact.
You see what I am talking about MEME???

Brock
01-07-2005, 11:18 AM
Shut up woman, and bake Bob Dole a pie.

bitch can't cook

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:18 AM
Right. And now the excuse for the next season, possibly two, is that the new coaches and new players need time to gel. Of course then there will be a new HC so the staff Gun assembles might not even be around afterall...

if this had been done last season (new players and coaches) then they would have had a season of rebuilding the defense under their belt and one year of DV still as HC with a window still open...

but this way, who knows.
That would make you happy wouldn't it? Because all of us guys would be pissed. So whatever pisses us off makes you happy?

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:18 AM
If this had been done last season (new players and coaches) then they would have had a season of rebuilding the defense under their belt and one year of DV still as HC with a window still open...

but this way, who knows.

Of course they are not going to SAY it and I'm not saying they did.

No one is denying that fact. They screwed up last offseason.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:19 AM
What took you so long?

I spend about 2 minutes a day in the political forum.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:20 AM
Shut up woman, and bake Bob Dole a pie.
More evidence biotch.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 11:20 AM
So whatever pisses us off makes you happy?

Indeed. She's a troll. She takes pleasure in seeing others unhappy.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 11:21 AM
Fug all that football shit for a minute, I was talking about you. WTF is it with you anyway. Every single fuggin post that you put up is negative. I mean it screams out of the puter. If someone is for something ,you are agianst it. No, there is a real conspiracy where there isn't one.

Heck, its funny chit to see you get pasted, and bashed, so you must be into massochism or something cause you keep coming back for more. :shake:

You have to own the crap to feel 'bashed or pasted', I don't.

The only negative thing about what I'm saying is that bottom line it was Carl's mistake of changing only the DC that made this season tank. The Chiefs lost a season for no reason.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:22 AM
Indeed. She's a troll. She takes pleasure in seeing others unhappy.
Well, don't you mods have the power to ban trolls??

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 11:24 AM
You have to own the crap to feel 'bashed or pasted', I don't.

The only negative thing about what I'm saying is that bottom line it's it was Carl's mistake of changing only the DC that made this season tank. The Chiefs lost a season for no reason.
I must have struck a cord, because that was an incoherent post.

HC_Chief
01-07-2005, 11:25 AM
Back on topic: I sincerely HOPE this is accurate!!!!!!! If DV doesn't like it, quit. SEE YA!

Gunther has a proven track record as a DC. He knows defense; DV does not (at least, not to the same degree). Give Gun what he needs to make this D good.

Keep the O as-is, with the addition of a replacement for Morton.

siberian khatru
01-07-2005, 11:25 AM
I must have struck a cord, because that was an incoherent post.

You don't have to strike a chord to elicit those from her.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 11:25 AM
Well, don't you mods have the power to ban trolls??
She's some sort of special case. I have no idea why.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 11:27 AM
Give Gun what he needs to make this D good.

.

It's not that easy to go out and get stud bookend pass rushers and cover corners.

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 11:28 AM
That would make you happy wouldn't it? Because all of us guys would be pissed. So whatever pisses us off makes you happy?


Hey, I understand your anger. It's displaced. Carl Peterson is the one who wasted a season this season and has taken to 'allowing' folks to 'convince' him of things he feels are a mistake later. I'm just pointing out that he has compiled a nice record of doing this...

and if he listened to Gun, who reportedly told him he could work/win with these guys, then why all of a sudden is Gun more credible now after he couldn't and says he didn't because he did not have his own people. :hmmm:

Frankie
01-07-2005, 11:49 AM
I just discovered this thread and not gonna read 12 pages of it. Help me out here. Has DV's replacement been discussed in the event he walks away with his ego? Would it be Saunders or back to Gun? I love Gun, but I think he should have a very strong say about the 'D' only. Would he accept Saunders as the new HC?

bogie
01-07-2005, 11:49 AM
I've already resigned myself to it.

The more I think about this "lame duck" season, the more I think there's absolutely no hope of anything good coming out of it.

OMG! I look forward to next year way to much to spend the entire off season resigned to the fact that "there's absolutely no hope" next year. Forget about this season. It's over. I don't give a f**k whose fault it was. Honestly, I believe it's CP, DV, GC and the players fault. I know DV is a mushy gushy guy and all. But I want him to stay. I don't want to see anything happen to our outstanding "O"! I choose to believe that DV is not an idiot. He's been standing on the sidelines all year long watching our horrendous "D". He must know that what happened this year did not work and it's time for a change. I'm encouraged that GC wants to bring in his own team of coach's. I believe DV will allow it. Anyway, didn't CP pretty much say "the buck stops here"? There are going to lots of changes on the "D" side and that's exactly what we need. I for one am very excited to see what happens the next few months. I believe there will be lots of positive things to discuss on the Chiefsplanet.

tomahawk kid
01-07-2005, 11:50 AM
I just discovered this thread and not gonna read 12 pages of it. Help me out here. Has DV's replacement been discussed in the event DV walks away with his ego? Would be Saunders or back to Gun. I love Gun, but I think he should have a very strong say about the 'D' only. Would he accept Saunders as the new HC?

It has been "inferred" in the past that Sauders will be the next Chiefs HC.

Frankie
01-07-2005, 11:53 AM
It has been "inferred" in the past that Sauders will be the next Chiefs HC.

Oh I'm aware of that. I meant just on this thread. I don't want to repeat anyone, but I think the correct step would be to elevate AS to HC and maybe hire Terry Shea as OC. However, I wonder if that's an acceptable situation for Gun.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-07-2005, 11:56 AM
Hell I thought going in that Gun was being set up for a letdown. How can you be comfortable coaching if you don't have any of your own coaches with you?

Also, sounds like to me the samething that happened in St. Louis...DV needs to make changes, or he can leave. He's going to end up being his own worst enemy and let his most glaring fault come through...loyalty.

Don't be stubborn, DV. It about cost you your job in St. Louis, and then look what happened? You won the Super Bowl. Do the same here. Let your loyalty slide and make the changes that need and have to be made in order to win a Super Bowl.

(I'm thinking more and more that DV wasn't a major part in the Rams winning their Super Bowl, he was more like a person along for the ride while the front office overrided him)

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:01 PM
I hope to God that Al Saunders is not ever the HC of this team.

That being said, I think that whole thing started when Peterson and Vermeil made Saunders assistant HC. Some kind of promise was made to Saunders about succeeding Vermeil.

However, in light of recent events -- especially Peterson's "you'd have to ask the offensive coordinator" comment in reference to Larry Johnson not getting on the field -- I'm guessing that "promise" is tenuous at best.

ptlyon
01-07-2005, 12:06 PM
especially Peterson's "you'd have to ask the offensive coordinator" comment in reference to Larry Johnson not getting on the field

you mean Parker, Parker

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:10 PM
you mean Parker, Parker

Yeah, I thought about that. I figured if I said Parker, it was Johnson and if I said Johnson, it was Parker.

Damn short-term memory!!!

Claynus
01-07-2005, 12:37 PM
Yeah, I thought about that. I figured if I said Parker, it was Johnson and if I said Johnson, it was Parker.

Damn short-term memory!!!

Hell, it's both, really. They should have been on the field long before the time they actually got out there.

Frankie
01-07-2005, 12:47 PM
I hope to God that Al Saunders is not ever the HC of this team.


I won't have any problem with it. The offensive continuity is IMO necessary. I know a lot of the fans are afraid of a Mike Martz syndrome. But I think AS is a hell of a lot more together than Martz. Plus he has a lot more coaching experience than Martz.

Claynus
01-07-2005, 12:48 PM
I won't have any problem with it. The offensive continuity is IMO necessary. I know a lot of the fans are afraid of a Mike Martz syndrome. But I think AS is a hell of a lot more together than Martz. Plus he has a lot more coaching experience than Martz.

Why would we need offensive continuity when half of Vermeil's offensive players are gone? Seriously, I can see Green, Roaf, Shields and Kennison hanging it up after this year.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-07-2005, 12:51 PM
I can only imagine what this past season was like. Gunther wanting to cuss out his position coaches and Vermeil stepping in and blocking him from doing so. :shake:

You could tell on the field that the coaches were conflicting. Some players were playing to Gun's style and some were playing to GRobs style. Heck, DV even said it. He said at one point during the last few weeks of the season that he told HIS coaches to play a certain way, and DV was asked if it was ok with Gun and DV said he didn't tell Gun anything about it. That's not a good sign, and it is no surprise that their is some friction at Arrowhead, we all saw the signs on the field and between the coaches.

Get all of Gun's coaches in here so everyone will be on the same page!!! Once we get better players and coaches that are Gunther style coaches, we'll have a much better defense because of the talent and COMMUNICATION.

Bob Dole
01-07-2005, 01:22 PM
Still expecting a ****ing pie.

Damnit.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 01:24 PM
I won't have any problem with it. The offensive continuity is IMO necessary. I know a lot of the fans are afraid of a Mike Martz syndrome. But I think AS is a hell of a lot more together than Martz. Plus he has a lot more coaching experience than Martz.

Al Saunders' "experience" doesn't say much. He's been on successful teams as a position coach, but as he ascend the ranks (from PC to OC to HC) his teams get progressively worse. His stint here as OC has been bad, and his stint as a HC was HORRIBLE.

As far as comparing him to Mike Martz, neither one of them seem to know when it's appropriate to run the ball. The comparison is not only fair, but valid.

Rausch
01-07-2005, 01:32 PM
It's obvious this has to have been faked. First, I was assured Gunther was a puppet lead around by the hand of Peterson.

2nd, if Gunther and Peterson are working hand in hand to revamp this defense, and that causes DV to leave, who do you think will be our interm HC?

tk13
01-07-2005, 02:09 PM
Well, the good news is that this should finally shut everybody up who's been going on and on about the idea that Carl would be stupid enough to stand pat again. Other than that, I'm not sure any of it is real good news other than the fact that by some act of God we repeat what happened in St. Louis and a little turmoil turns into a whole lot of success. I still don't want DV to go, hopefully he can use that vacation to clear his mind and come back and be positive and hopefully Gunther knows what he's doing this time around. I trust Al and Gun to be able to call and run an offense/defense, I'm not sure how well I trust them to evaluate all the talent, we'll see I guess.

stevieray
01-07-2005, 02:27 PM
I wish she could be banned from talking about the Chiefs.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 02:27 PM
I wish she could be banned.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 02:37 PM
I wish she could be banned.

I know what you mean. I wish I had a dime for every time somebody complained about her.

We could by an island in the South Pacific...

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 02:39 PM
We could by an island in the South Pacific...

Is this your way of telling me you want to run away with me?

I'm flattered, really. But, I'm into chicks. Sorry.

Bob Dole
01-07-2005, 02:46 PM
I wish she could be banned.

Bob Dole just wishes she get busy baking Bob Dole that mother****ing pie.

(Bob Dole missed lunch.)

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 02:49 PM
Hey, I understand your anger. It's displaced. Carl Peterson is the one who wasted a season this season and has taken to 'allowing' folks to 'convince' him of things he feels are a mistake later. I'm just pointing out that he has compiled a nice record of doing this...

and if he listened to Gun, who reportedly told him he could work/win with these guys, then why all of a sudden is Gun more credible now after he couldn't and says he didn't because he did not have his own people. :hmmm:
No, you don't have a fuggin clue about my anger.

:mad:

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 02:50 PM
Is this your way of telling me you want to run away with me?

I'm flattered, really. But, I'm into chicks. Sorry.

People read into things what they WANT to read into them, or so I've heard.

It came from YOUR brain, not mine.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 02:52 PM
Still expecting a ****ing pie.

Damnit.
Dude, it might not be the kind of pie you are looking for.

I would give it a rest. :)

Bob Dole
01-07-2005, 02:55 PM
People read into things what they WANT to read into them, or so I've heard.

It came from YOUR brain, not mine.

You're giving him too much credit.

It came from the cavity where his brain should be. The MRI allegedly revealed that the cavity now contains a really small penis and a roach clip.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 02:55 PM
Dude, it might not be the kind of pie you are looking for.

Bob Dole loves hair pie.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 02:56 PM
You're giving him too much credit.

It came from the cavity where his brain should be. The MRI allegedly revealed that the cavity now contains a really small penis and a roach clip.
Oddly enough, that's strikingly similar to the contents of my pants.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 02:57 PM
You're giving him too much credit.

It came from the cavity where his brain should be. The MRI allegedly revealed that the cavity now contains a really small penis and a roach clip.

ROFL

PastorMikH
01-07-2005, 03:25 PM
Definitely an interesting read. I think it is good to see Carl finally step up and take the control of the team. Only took him 2 years longer than it did for Georgia to do it. If DV CAN swallow his pride, these changes can get him his second ring.


FWIW, I had thought Gunther had mentioned a couple of guys he wanted to bring with him but noticed nothing ever developed.

ChiefsCountry
01-07-2005, 03:47 PM
I think Gun wanted Chuck Cecil to be the Linebackers coach instead of that loser we hired from the Raiders who Vermeil loved bc he was the defensive coordinator of Ohio State when Vermeil did college fb for ABC.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 03:49 PM
I know what you mean. I wish I had a dime for every time somebody complained about her.

We could by an island in the South Pacific...
Pre or post Tsunami?

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 03:53 PM
I know what you mean. I wish I had a dime for every time somebody complained about her.

We could by an island in the South Pacific...

I guess they can't figure out the ignore option so they :deevee: .

Poor Mods. :thumb:, you have my empathy.

stevieray
01-07-2005, 03:57 PM
I guess they can't figure out the ignore option so they :deevee: .

Poor Mods. :thumb:, you have my empathy.


please. You don't ignore negative comments made about you.

In fact, every time there is a fav poster thread, there you are, crying and unable to ignore the people you say should ignore you.

ZootedGranny
01-07-2005, 03:59 PM
This almost sounds too good to be true.

I could give a **** less if Vermeil stays, as I think his style has worn thin. He has an excuse for everything, from profile, to cap dollars to whining about the schedule, and still losing to shitty teams.

This thread actually gave me some hope that next season could be a success.

ENDelt260
01-07-2005, 04:00 PM
please. You don't ignore negative comments made about you.

Of course not. She cherishes them.

Calcountry
01-07-2005, 04:02 PM
Bob Dole loves hair pie.
Of that I have no doubt, but Meme's pie??? :Lin:

Frankie
01-07-2005, 04:06 PM
Meanwhile..... about the turmoil in the Chiefs front office......
:shake:

memyselfI
01-07-2005, 05:27 PM
Meanwhile..... about the turmoil in the Chiefs front office......
:shake:


It's old news...hence their desire to talk about me. Must be more interesting. :hmmm: :eek: :harumph: :shake:

stevieray
01-07-2005, 05:32 PM
It's old news...hence their desire to talk about me. Must be more interesting. :hmmm: :eek: :harumph: :shake:

stop pretending this isn't your agenda, Iselfmemy.

ChiefsCountry
01-07-2005, 05:33 PM
Don't worry we will be good next year its an odd year.

Judge Smails
01-07-2005, 08:47 PM
His stint here as OC has been bad, and his stint as a HC was HORRIBLE.




Wait, what? I gotta say having a top five offense for the last couple seasons is a helluva lot better than watching some of Joe Pendry's and Paul Hackett's and Jimmy Raye's.

Bowser
01-09-2005, 07:28 PM
Missed this thread completely. Interesting read, from the turmoil in the front office, to nearly everybody's disdain of D'nise, to the issue of ENDelt's schlong. Or, according to ENDelt, schlort.

And Bob Dole wanting some mother****ing pie.

That's it. I nominate this thread for the Hall of Classics. :)

BigRedChief
01-09-2005, 10:10 PM
This almost sounds too good to be true.

I could give a **** less if Vermeil stays, as I think his style has worn thin. He has an excuse for everything, from profile, to cap dollars to whining about the schedule, and still losing to shitty teams.

This thread actually gave me some hope that next season could be a success.

Or maybe DV and King Carl are like this gentlemen here
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/chefdaddy/butthead.jpg

Mr. Kotter
01-09-2005, 10:56 PM
I haven't read the entire thread yet....but, "Dick, don't let the door hit you in the ass...." :shake:

:banghead: