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View Full Version : My preliminary (and somewhat more realistic) offseason plan...


htismaqe
01-07-2005, 11:57 AM
Free Agents:

Corey Bradford, WR, Texans
Upside - solid WR with big play potential, 29 years old, won't cost too much
Downside - never caught more the 45 passes in a year, some injury problems
Bottom line - Gives us low-cost depth at a position of need without sacrificing any defensive needs

Ken Lucas, CB, Seahawks
Upside - bonafide NFL starting CB, only 25 years old
Downside - will likely command a huge contract
Bottom line - the one need we should break the bank on

Idrees Bashir, FS, Colts
Upside - Young (25) and athletic, won't break the bank
Downside - has struggled at times, some injury concerns
Bottom line - IMO, his struggles were due to Dungy's cover 2 and he will play better in Gunther's scheme

Draft
Round 1 - Justin Miller, CB, Clemson
Upside - a PURE playmaker that can score from anywhere on the field, great in coverage, but still a good hitter
Downside - some might say too short (5'11"), sometimes goes for the big play instead of the sure play, some off-field problems
Bottom line - he's got Deion-like ability, but a Deion-like attitude...we could use that

Round 2 - Michael Boley, OLB, Southern Miss
Upside - good speed, is good at rushing the passer as well as stopping the run
Downside - not as good in coverage, could use some bulk (6'3" 218lbs.)
Bottom line - Gunther says we need speed at LB, he's the 2nd-fastest LB in the draft after DJ

That's my start...feel free to rip away...just remember, my emphasis here was on trying to be REALISTIC about our chances in the offseason...

Kris Kringle
01-07-2005, 12:00 PM
We should have a few cap dollars to spend. We should have 11 draft picks too. I hope we can't get 4 new starters on D and a WR.

Deberg_1990
01-07-2005, 12:02 PM
Here is another name that ive never heard of before. Got this from Dr Z's column on cnnsi:

He plays for the Cardinals


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/dr_z/01/05/drz.rankings.part2/index.html


One of the NFL's unsung careers belongs to Ron McKinnon, the free-agent middle linebacker once deemed too small to play. He's a nine-year vet, never a Pro Bowl choice but a guy who recorded more than 2,000 tackles. He'll be a free agent. He doesn't know what the future holds. "No one would have heard of me, if not for the Arizona Cardinals," he says without bitterness.

Count Alex's Losses
01-07-2005, 12:03 PM
I'd love to see Bradford brought in. He's got quicks and is probably as fast as Kennison.

siberian khatru
01-07-2005, 12:03 PM
just remember, my emphasis here was on trying to be REALISTIC about our chances in the offseason...

This is Chiefs Planet -- check your reality at the door. :)

Brock
01-07-2005, 12:08 PM
I'd be pretty damn happy if all that came to pass.

morphius
01-07-2005, 12:13 PM
I haven't watched the Seahawks at all, but all the talking heads are saying what a field day StL could have with this secondar because they give up some many big plays. I don't know if Lucas is a part of the problem or not, but it does seem a bit scary.

BigChiefFan
01-07-2005, 12:14 PM
Ken Lucas or Gary Baxter and Kendrell Bell would be the moves I would make. Possibly pick-up a veteran OLBer on the cheap.

1st Round Possibilities CB Rolle, OLB Brooks, DE Kiwi
2nd Round Possibilities OLB Blackstock, MLB Odell Thurman, DE Justin Tuck, QB Kyle Orton

Cochise
01-07-2005, 12:16 PM
McKinnon is a solid player. Dr. Z is right on there. Been on enough bad teams to be little known though.

Cochise
01-07-2005, 12:16 PM
I think we should just stand pat on personnel and change the defensive coaches.

Deberg_1990
01-07-2005, 12:17 PM
McKinnon is a solid player. Dr. Z is right on there. Been on enough bad teams to be little known though.

Yea, 2000 tackles in 9 years is outstanding! definately worth a look.

The Bad Guy
01-07-2005, 12:17 PM
I don't like Bradford.

He's already 29 and with Porter and Burress out there, I would rather go after Porter.

I would also sign Ed Hartwell for our MLB and Will Witherspoon from Carolina for our WLB.

Ken Lucas would be fine with me. I'd love Smoot but Lucas would be fine.

Smoot would add some serious attitude and swagger to our defense, which is something we need.

This is pretty much our shot next year, the Chiefs have to go balls to the wall to pull it off.

Saulbadguy
01-07-2005, 12:18 PM
I like Bashir.

Ultra Peanut
01-07-2005, 12:19 PM
Idrees Bashir, FS, Colts
Upside - Young (25) and athletic, won't break the bank
Downside - has struggled at times, some injury concerns
Bottom line - IMO, his struggles were due to Dungy's cover 2 and he will play better in Gunther's schemeOne Memphis FS to replace another. :thumb:

Saulbadguy
01-07-2005, 12:20 PM
One Memphis FS to replace another. :thumb:
Hmm....Didn't know he was from Memphis. He seemed to be the only decent part of the Colts secondary this year, IMO.

Deberg_1990
01-07-2005, 12:21 PM
the Chiefs have to go balls to the wall to pull it off.

This is the million dollar question isnt it??? Do Lamar, Carl and DV have the balls to do it? Are they all even on the same page??

Count Alex's Losses
01-07-2005, 12:22 PM
I dunno if I want another ex-Colt safety here. The last one sucked.

Mr. Laz
01-07-2005, 12:29 PM
Free Agents:

Corey Bradford, WR, Texans

Ken Lucas, CB, Seahawksshould break the bank on

Idrees Bashir, FS, Colts

Draft
Round 1 - Justin Miller, CB, Clemson
Upside - a PURE playmaker that can

Round 2 - Michael Boley, OLB, Southern Miss

That's my start...feel free to rip away...just remember, my emphasis here was on trying to be REALISTIC about our chances in the offseason...

well i'd have to say that's its pretty realistic


the only part that would be an impact move would be Lucas


i dont think it's near enough... sooooo ... that means the chiefs might actually do it.

don't know anything about justin miller though ... why not Rodgers?


i would think that at 15 Jackson,Rolle or Rodgers will be there.

is miller really a top 3 cb in this year's draft?




btw... i'm sure Carl would applaud your bottom basement NO expectation plan for this offseason. It should be good enough to win us another game next year.

8-8 here we come :thumb:

Nightfyre
01-07-2005, 12:35 PM
Free Agents:

Corey Bradford, WR, Texans
Upside - solid WR with big play potential, 29 years old, won't cost too much
Downside - never caught more the 45 passes in a year, some injury problems
Bottom line - Gives us low-cost depth at a position of need without sacrificing any defensive needs

Ken Lucas, CB, Seahawks
Upside - bonafide NFL starting CB, only 25 years old
Downside - will likely command a huge contract
Bottom line - the one need we should break the bank on

Idrees Bashir, FS, Colts
Upside - Young (25) and athletic, won't break the bank
Downside - has struggled at times, some injury concerns
Bottom line - IMO, his struggles were due to Dungy's cover 2 and he will play better in Gunther's scheme

Draft
Round 1 - Justin Miller, CB, Clemson
Upside - a PURE playmaker that can score from anywhere on the field, great in coverage, but still a good hitter
Downside - some might say too short (5'11"), sometimes goes for the big play instead of the sure play, some off-field problems
Bottom line - he's got Deion-like ability, but a Deion-like attitude...we could use that

Round 2 - Michael Boley, OLB, Southern Miss
Upside - good speed, is good at rushing the passer as well as stopping the run
Downside - not as good in coverage, could use some bulk (6'3" 218lbs.)
Bottom line - Gunther says we need speed at LB, he's the 2nd-fastest LB in the draft after DJ

That's my start...feel free to rip away...just remember, my emphasis here was on trying to be REALISTIC about our chances in the offseason...
I like what you bring to the table. However, I would like to see us also bring in proven LB, particularly with the amount of FAs out there. I would sign a LB in addition to what you are doing and draft a DE in the first round and a CB in the second, simply because the draft is deep in CB talent and someone will get overlooked. I hope Tait brings an end of 1st round pick. How sweet would that be?

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:35 PM
OK, to address all of the input:

1) Ronald McKinnon - I considered putting him on the list, but he's a MLB, and one that I think would command enough money to prevent us from addressing more pressing needs at OLB and CB. Alot of fans may not have heard of him, but you can bet your ass, NFL front offices know who he is.

2) Kendrell Bell - I just can't understand why people think signing him is realistic. He's one of the top FA defenders this season that could realistically hit the market (ie. won't be franchised). His contract is going to be outrageous for a guy who can't stay healthy.

3) Gary Baxter - another guy I considered for the list...this one goes with #4 so read on. Baxter is not a tier 1 CB, IMO. I would prefer to get a bonafide #1 CB, but Baxter does present one opportunity...

4) Will Witherspoon - I strongly considered putting him on the list, essentially swapping two positions of need. If we went with Baxter instead of Lucas, Baxter would likely leave us with some money to sign Witherspoon, who is easily the best OLB available. He's going to get a fat contract, he might be out of our price range.

5) Joey Porter and Plaxico Burress - I have a feeling both of these guys are going to be hot commodities. Again, because my emphasis was trying to remain realistic, I didn't include them because I think they'll end up out of our price range.

6) Antrel Rolle won't be available when we pick, IMO.

Cochise
01-07-2005, 12:37 PM
No one took my stand-pat bait huh. You guys are smarter than you look.

Count Alex's Losses
01-07-2005, 12:37 PM
5) Joey Porter and Plaxico Burress - I have a feeling both of these guys are going to be hot commodities. Again, because my emphasis was trying to remain realistic, I didn't include them because I think they'll end up out of our price range.

Don't you mean JERRY Porter?

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:44 PM
well i'd have to say that's its pretty realistic


the only part that would be an impact more would be Lucas


i dont think it's near enough... sooooo ... that means the chiefs might actually do it.

don't know anything about justin miller though ... why not Rodgers?


i would think that at 15 Jackson,Rolle or Rodgers will be there.

is miller really a top 3 cb in this year's draft?



btw... i'm sure Carl would applaud your bottom basement NO expectation plan for this offseason. It should be good enough to win us another game next year. 8-8 here we come :thumb:

It's going to depend some on the combine.

Jackson is one of those guys that has alot of physical ability but sometimes you wonder what's going on upstairs, both on the field and off. He could be a top-10 pick, or he could fall to the 3rd round. I just don't know how to look at him right now.

I haven't seen Rogers play as much and the one thing I've noticed is that I haven't seen him make plays because nobody ever throws at him. I think he had a redshirt freshman starting opposite him, so that might be more of it than anything he brings to the table. Also, every draft bio I've read says "struggles against the run", "not a good tackler", "relies on physical ability, struggles with technique".

As for Rolle, I'm more convinced by the day that he's gone long before we pick.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:45 PM
Don't you mean JERRY Porter?

Why yes, I do.

bricks
01-07-2005, 12:46 PM
I think we should break the bank and sign Woodson. He's the best CB available. And, we should put in our best efforts to snag Rolle out of the draft.
If we don't get Rolle, draft Marlin Jackson. All these guys may not fit DV's profile, but, I say F*ck it. If we are going to improve this defense, it has to be with Carl and Gunther at the helm. Work on this whole secondary first. I like Idrees Bashir, he'll come in at a cheap price. I also forgot they have to fire Peter Giunta! Pick up a couple of LB's. Hartwell is a good choice. Kendrell Bell would be a good choice, IF he doesn't demand a lot of dollars. Will Witherspoon, and Brian Simmons are solid choices as well.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:47 PM
I like what you bring to the table. However, I would like to see us also bring in proven LB, particularly with the amount of FAs out there. I would sign a LB in addition to what you are doing and draft a DE in the first round and a CB in the second, simply because the draft is deep in CB talent and someone will get overlooked. I hope Tait brings an end of 1st round pick. How sweet would that be?

Holthus said this morning that Gunther wants 2 cornerbacks (1 FA, 1 draft) and possibly 3.

The problem here is that we have more needs than money. If we add a proven LB, we'll have to settle for a lesser CB. Not adding a CB at all in FA would be a HUGE mistake IMO, as even the most talented rookie won't be likely to contribute prior to about week 8.

Count Alex's Losses
01-07-2005, 12:49 PM
I think we should break the bank and sign Woodson. He's the best CB available. And, we should put in our best efforts to snag Rolle out of the draft.
If we don't get Rolle, draft Marlin Jackson. All these guys may not fit DV's profile, but, I say F*ck it. If we are going to improve this defense, it has to be with Carl and Gunther at the helm. Work on this whole secondary first. I like Idrees Bashir, he'll come in at a cheap price. I also forgot they have to fire Peter Giunta! Pick up a couple of LB's. Hartwell is a good choice. Kendrell Bell would be a good choice, IF he doesn't demand a lot of dollars. Will Witherspoon, and Brian Simmons are solid choices as well.

Woodson has had some injury problems too, and I think he's overrated. I'm not sure how much better he is than Lucas.

bricks
01-07-2005, 12:50 PM
Holthus said this morning that Gunther wants 2 cornerbacks (1 FA, 1 draft) and possibly 3.

The problem here is that we have more needs than money. If we add a proven LB, we'll have to settle for a lesser CB. Not adding a CB at all in FA would be a HUGE mistake IMO, as even the most talented rookie won't be likely to contribute prior to about week 8.

Well...we have no option, but, to draft GOOD :huh: (unlikely). Or, sign a guy that will come at a cheap price and suprise. Like a hidden gem. Ala Lionel Dalton

Straight, No Chaser
01-07-2005, 12:50 PM
Draft
Round 1 - Justin Miller, CB, Clemson
Upside - a PURE playmaker that can score from anywhere on the field, great in coverage, but still a good hitter
Downside - some might say too short (5'11"), sometimes goes for the big play instead of the sure play, some off-field problems
Bottom line - he's got Deion-like ability, but a Deion-like attitude...we could use that

Round 2 - Michael Boley, OLB, Southern Miss
Upside - good speed, is good at rushing the passer as well as stopping the run
Downside - not as good in coverage, could use some bulk (6'3" 218lbs.)
Bottom line - Gunther says we need speed at LB, he's the 2nd-fastest LB in the draft after DJ

That's my start...feel free to rip away...just remember, my emphasis here was on trying to be REALISTIC about our chances in the offseason...

I just think drafting a CB is too risky right now --can a rookie come in and impact next year? Julian Battle was taken under the pretense of being a big, shut-down corner.

Consider Carl's tenor in his last press conference. I think he'll be aggressive in The Draft and FA. It wouldn't surprise me if he negotiates a lower draft spot in order to get the LB from Texas. Carl simply cannot ignore "the art of the deal".



--->

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:50 PM
I think we should break the bank and sign Woodson. He's the best CB available. And, we should put in our best efforts to snag Rolle out of the draft.
If we don't get Rolle, draft Marlin Jackson. All these guys may not fit DV's profile, but, I say F*ck it. If we are going to improve this defense, it has to be with Carl and Gunther at the helm. Work on this whole secondary first. I like Idrees Bashir, he'll come in at a cheap price. I also forgot they have to fire Peter Giunta! Pick up a couple of LB's. Hartwell is a good choice. Kendrell Bell would be a good choice, IF he doesn't demand a lot of dollars. Will Witherspoon, and Brian Simmons are solid choices as well.

Woodson is NOT the best CB available. Even if you can get past his attitude, he's got injury concerns. He'll also be well out of our price range, as he'll command at least double what he's actually worth.

I'm not worried about the profile at all, wasn't even a consideration in my picks.

philfree
01-07-2005, 12:51 PM
It's going to depend some on the combine.

Jackson is one of those guys that has alot of physical ability but sometimes you wonder what's going on upstairs, both on the field and off. He could be a top-10 pick, or he could fall to the 3rd round. I just don't know how to look at him right now.

I haven't seen Rogers play as much and the one thing I've noticed is that I haven't seen him make plays because nobody ever throws at him. I think he had a redshirt freshman starting opposite him, so that might be more of it than anything he brings to the table. Also, every draft bio I've read says "struggles against the run", "not a good tackler", "relies on physical ability, struggles with technique".

As for Rolle, I'm more convinced by the day that he's gone long before we pick.

I thought I read that Rogers was good in run support but I haven't read that many profiles yet. He was very intense in the Sugar Bowl and made some good hits. He also had his man covered when they did throw his way. His intensity really stood out to me.

PhilFree :arrow:

bricks
01-07-2005, 12:52 PM
Woodson has had some injury problems too, and I think he's overrated. I'm not sure how much better he is than Lucas.

Woodson is good. He's had some injuries, and off-field problems lately, I agree. When he plays his game, he's better than the rest of the CB's in the FA market. He's better than Lucas.

Nightfyre
01-07-2005, 12:53 PM
Holthus said this morning that Gunther wants 2 cornerbacks (1 FA, 1 draft) and possibly 3.

The problem here is that we have more needs than money. If we add a proven LB, we'll have to settle for a lesser CB. Not adding a CB at all in FA would be a HUGE mistake IMO, as even the most talented rookie won't be likely to contribute prior to about week 8.
I agree CB is the most pressing need. Perhaps then, we draft LB first and draft CB in the second? I think this plan is very suitable. I just think it would be a shame to not sign a LB when there is such a large market for them. They will be cheaper.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:53 PM
I just think drafting a CB is too risky right now --can a rookie come in and impact next year? Julian Battle was taken under the pretense of being a big, shut-down corner.

Consider Carl's tenor in his last press conference. I think he'll be aggressive in The Draft and FA. It wouldn't surprise me if he negotiates a lower draft spot in order to get the LB from Texas. Carl simply cannot ignore "the art of the deal".



--->

It wouldn't surprise me to see us trade up 3-4 spots if it meant being able to get Rolle or Johnson. I could realistically see Carl doing that.

As for drafting a CB, that's why I chose Miller. No, he won't come in and line up opposite Rod Smith day 1, but with Lucas we wouldn't need him to. But as a nickel corner, he'd be a real specimen early in the year, with the ability to replace Warfiled long-term...

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:54 PM
I thought I read that Rogers was good in run support but I haven't read that many profiles yet. He was very intense in the Sugar Bowl and made some good hits. He also had his man covered when they did throw his way. His intensity really stood out to me.

PhilFree :arrow:

Well, it's hard to know which draft sites have actually done their homework, so some of the stuff we are reading could be made up...

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 12:57 PM
Woodson is good. He's had some injuries, and off-field problems lately, I agree. When he plays his game, he's better than the rest of the CB's in the FA market. He's better than Lucas.

I think you must be confusing Wolverine Woodson with Raiders Woodson. He hasn't done shit since getting his mega-payday.

philfree
01-07-2005, 12:59 PM
I just think drafting a CB is too risky right now --can a rookie come in and impact next year? Julian Battle was taken under the pretense of being a big, shut-down corner.

Consider Carl's tenor in his last press conference. I think he'll be aggressive in The Draft and FA. It wouldn't surprise me if he negotiates a lower draft spot in order to get the LB from Texas. Carl simply cannot ignore "the art of the deal".



--->

Riskier than putting Barttee on the field? Any of the top 5 or 6 CBs in the draft will be a big improvement over what we have now at the #2 and $.05 CB positions. IMO one of the top CBs in the draft will have an immediate impact on our D.

PhilFree :arrow:

bricks
01-07-2005, 01:00 PM
This is what kills me. How many good f*cking CB's were available last year in FA? What? about 10. And, the Chiefs elected to NOT sign any! And, now how good ones are there? 3,4. :shake: Now, it's OH we need a CB? Too f*cking late.

Count Alex's Losses
01-07-2005, 01:00 PM
I think you must be confusing Wolverine Woodson with Raiders Woodson. He hasn't done shit since getting his mega-payday.

Yep. Except getting burned by Derrick Alexander (not sure if that was before or after but I do remember him getting toasted all day long by that waste o talent).

If you think the Chiefs can realistically accomplish all this, htis, why do you think next year is gonna suck?

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 01:07 PM
Yep. Except getting burned by Derrick Alexander (not sure if that was before or after but I do remember him getting toasted all day long by that waste o talent).

If you think the Chiefs can realistically accomplish all this, htis, why do you think next year is gonna suck?

I just have a bad feeling.

I'd feel much better if we could do all of this without DV coming back as HC.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 01:08 PM
This is what kills me. How many good f*cking CB's were available last year in FA? What? about 10. And, the Chiefs elected to NOT sign any! And, now how good ones are there? 3,4. :shake: Now, it's OH we need a CB? Too f*cking late.

Well, the Vikings got the premiere CB on the market last year in Antoine Winfield and how did they do?

Oh yeah, they SUCKED.

Brock
01-07-2005, 01:09 PM
Well, the Vikings got the premiere CB on the market last year in Antoine Winfield and how did they do?

Oh yeah, they SUCKED.

True, but you aren't saying that Winfield wouldn't have been an improvement over what the Chiefs have, are you?

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 01:11 PM
True, but you aren't saying that Winfield wouldn't have been an improvement over what the Chiefs have, are you?

No, I'm just saying that going out and giving 1/8th of your salary cap to the biggest "name" on the market isn't a magic bullet.

bricks
01-07-2005, 01:11 PM
Well, the Vikings got the premiere CB on the market last year in Antoine Winfield and how did they do?

Oh yeah, they SUCKED.

Yeah. And he wasn't THE problem.

BigChiefFan
01-07-2005, 01:39 PM
Gary Baxter is the corner that I think makes the most sense. He shouldn't command top-tier money, but I believe he would be a good fit for the Chiefs. He fits the mold of the Gunther Bump n Run CB. He's 6'2", 215 lbs. The prototype corner for a Gunther defense. He's not stellar corner, but he is solid and I think with Gunther's game-plannning could become a contributing player. He also would be a player, that is still young and hasn't peaked yet. We need to invest our money is ASCENDING players (remember Gretz, proof is in the pudding). Baxter only has 4 years in the league and I like that he has played on a team with a swagger when it comes to defense. We could do alot worse than signing Baxter.

Entrenched in the Baxter camp.

ROYC75
01-07-2005, 01:40 PM
Free Agents:

Ken Lucas, CB, Seahawks
Upside - bonafide NFL starting CB, only 25 years old
Downside - will likely command a huge contract
Bottom line - the one need we should break the bank on


Draft
Round 1 - Justin Miller, CB, Clemson
Upside - a PURE playmaker that can score from anywhere on the field, great in coverage, but still a good hitter
Downside - some might say too short (5'11"), sometimes goes for the big play instead of the sure play, some off-field problems
Bottom line - he's got Deion-like ability, but a Deion-like attitude...we could use that...

I agree on Lucas .

Miller is a local boy 30 miles up the street from here, a great HS talent, ahead of his peers.
Jumping early to the NFL from Clemson, most so called experts I have read are calling him a 2nd rd pick.

By any chance have you watched him, I have not, only hearing and reading about him in the papers down here.

Do you feel that Rolle will be gone by the 15th pick ?

Straight, No Chaser
01-07-2005, 01:45 PM
I just think drafting a CB is too risky right now --can a rookie come in and impact next year? Julian Battle was taken under the pretense of being a big, shut-down corner.
Consider Carl's tenor in his last press conference. I think he'll be aggressive in The Draft and FA. It wouldn't surprise me if he negotiates a lower draft spot in order to get the LB from Texas. Carl simply cannot ignore "the art of the deal".
Riskier than putting Barttee on the field? Any of the top 5 or 6 CBs in the draft will be a big improvement over what we have now at the #2 and $.05 CB positions. IMO one of the top CBs in the draft will have an immediate impact on our D.

PhilFree :arrow:

ROFL :thumb: Yes, point taken.
Too bad because William finally had his chance(s). I meant "risk" in a sense that an individual pick not only represents it's own opportunity but it also affects each pick thereafter.

I guess you're post-2004 assessment puts Battle and Sapp in the Pile... I still see FA as the path for a CB but who knows... El Rey should use Woodson as a decoy...


---->

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 02:20 PM
Gary Baxter is the corner that I think makes the most sense. He shouldn't command top-tier money, but I believe he would be a good fit for the Chiefs. He fits the mold of the Gunther Bump n Run CB. He's 6'2", 215 lbs. The prototype corner for a Gunther defense. He's not stellar corner, but he is solid and I think with Gunther's game-plannning could become a contributing player. He also would be a player, that is still young and hasn't peaked yet. We need to invest our money is ASCENDING players (remember Gretz, proof is in the pudding). Baxter only has 4 years in the league and I like that he has played on a team with a swagger when it comes to defense. We could do alot worse than signing Baxter.

Entrenched in the Baxter camp.

The other thing about signing Baxter is that, if we could save some money by signing him, we might have a shot at Will Witherspoon. Getting both of them would be a major upgrade.

Nightfyre
01-07-2005, 02:21 PM
The other thing about signing Baxter is that, if we could save some money by signing him, we might have a shot at Will Witherspoon. Getting both of them would be a major upgrade.
Will Witherspoon is YOUNG too! I would be pleased, our defense would be all kinds of good with him.

philfree
01-07-2005, 02:23 PM
ROFL :thumb: Yes, point taken.
Too bad because William finally had his chance(s). I meant "risk" in a sense that an individual pick not only represents it's own opportunity but it also affects each pick thereafter.

I guess you're post-2004 assessment puts Battle and Sapp in the Pile... I still see FA as the path for a CB but who knows... El Rey should use Woodson as a decoy...


---->
IMO we should sign a FA CB and draft a CB too. I think Sapp has a role on next years team but Bartee and Battle need to be replaced. Dexter can play in the dime if he's cheap enough.

PhilFree :arrow:

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 02:27 PM
IMO we should sign a FA CB and draft a CB too. I think Sapp has a role on next years team but Bartee and Battle need to be replaced. Dexter can play in the dime if he's cheap enough.

PhilFree :arrow:

I think you can count on it. Holthus didn't provide much DETAILED info on personnel moves this morning, but the one he did mention was that Gunther wants at least 2, if not 3 CB's - at least one free agent and one from the draft.

Nightfyre
01-07-2005, 02:28 PM
What if....
Sign Witherspoon
Sign Baxter
Sign Bashir
Draft Rolle
Draft a DE

we have a young defense to begin rebuilding off of.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 02:38 PM
What if....
Sign Witherspoon
Sign Baxter
Sign Bashir
Draft Rolle
Draft a DE

we have a young defense to begin rebuilding off of.

BRILLIANT!

I wish I had thought of that...

No seriously, that scenario right there would be an almost perfect offseason...way too good to be possible...

shaneo69
01-07-2005, 04:12 PM
Love the idea of getting Corey Bradford. I think he's been underrated his entire career and he's just reaching his peak at age 29 (very similar to Kennison IMO).

I think we definitely need Lucas or Baxter. However, the people here who think Baxter will be cheaper may be fooling themselves. These two might be the only two legit starting CB's on the open market, so they'll both probably be in line for at least a $10 mil signing bonus like Shawn Springs got last year.

Bashir? Not a big fan. Didn't Indy draft Bob Sanders to replace him? I think Pile can be just as good with some decent CB's around him.

Draft.....I don't think we should take a CB in the 1st round, because I don't think any of these guys are big enough impact players. Yeah we need one, but don't let "need" cloud your judgement. There are like 8-9 good CB's in this draft----Rolle, Jackson, Rogers, Webster, Miller, Browner, Washington, Pac Man, possibly Will Blackmon, etc., so I think we could get a starter quality CB in the 2nd, and a more impact player in the 1st, whether it be Kiwi, Pollack, E. James, Ahmad Brooks, Odell Thurman, Boley, S. Cody, or whoever your highest rated front seven player is.

I'm not a big fan of Ron McKinnon. He is about the equivalent of Marvcus Patton, circa 1999. I'd rather have a guy who hasn't been pounded on for 10 years. Since there's no LB's I really like out in Free Agency, I'd probably look to the draft for that position and maybe go after a Reggie Hayward to improve our pass rush from the line.

htismaqe
01-07-2005, 04:17 PM
Love the idea of getting Corey Bradford. I think he's been underrated his entire career and he's just reaching his peak at age 29 (very similar to Kennison IMO).

I think we definitely need Lucas or Baxter. However, the people here who think Baxter will be cheaper may be fooling themselves. These two might be the only two legit starting CB's on the open market, so they'll both probably be in line for at least a $10 mil signing bonus like Shawn Springs got last year.

Bashir? Not a big fan. Didn't Indy draft Bob Sanders to replace him? I think Pile can be just as good with some decent CB's around him.

Draft.....I don't think we should take a CB in the 1st round, because I don't think any of these guys are big enough impact players. Yeah we need one, but don't let "need" cloud your judgement. There are like 8-9 good CB's in this draft----Rolle, Jackson, Rogers, Webster, Miller, Browner, Washington, Pac Man, possibly Will Blackmon, etc., so I think we could get a starter quality CB in the 2nd, and a more impact player in the 1st, whether it be Kiwi, Pollack, E. James, Ahmad Brooks, Odell Thurman, Boley, S. Cody, or whoever your highest rated front seven player is.

I'm not a big fan of Ron McKinnon. He is about the equivalent of Marvcus Patton, circa 1999. I'd rather have a guy who hasn't been pounded on for 10 years. Since there's no LB's I really like out in Free Agency, I'd probably look to the draft for that position and maybe go after a Reggie Hayward to improve our pass rush from the line.

You could be right about Baxter. I only thought about his talent, I didn't consider his talent relative to the available market.

The reason the Colts drafted Bob Sanders is because Sanders played in a zone his entire college career. I think Bashir struggles because he's more suited to a scheme like Gunther's rather than Dungy's cover 2. I don't necessarily disagree about Pile though. I like his potential.

As for the draft, we'll probably have to get into more detail there after the combines and such. Alot of the guys you have listed I don't see as 1st round guys, while some you have falling to the 2nd I think of more as 1st-rounders. It's all just speculation at this point.

And I wasn't drafting a CB in the 1st based on "need" anyway. If you read back through my posts the last few days, you'll notice that I'm one of the most vocal that a 1st-year CB likely won't contribute right away.

I put Justin Miller in there because I think he's got playmaker/star power, not because he is a CB.