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View Full Version : Carlos Rogers NOT worth a first round pick (from the KC Star Board)


royr17
01-08-2005, 05:23 AM
(Found this over at the KC Star Board, lets see what some of you guys have to say bout it and think.)

There are going to be at least 2 or 3 players that will still be on the board at 15 that should be taken before Rogers. If the Chiefs were to grab this kid, they need to upgrade our second round pick, maybe package it with another mid-round pick to get up to the 30-40 range.

Besides, our cornerback issue will more than likely be figured out with a free agent signing.

royr17
01-08-2005, 05:24 AM
Of what he said there may be right cause this draft is loaded with corners like Rolle, Miller, Browner, and Rogers and a few other really good ones.

If there is a position of need guys wouldnt you think it would be corner and that we should address that in the 1st round. I wouldnt mind getting 2 corners in this draft.

So which guys that are gonna be in the draft would you want that you think fits GUNS style of play ?

royr17
01-08-2005, 05:31 AM
Here's a mock draft and these are the corners in round 1 and 2 of the NFL Countdown Mock Draft :

CB Antrel Rolle, Miami
CB Pac-Man Jones, West Virginia
CB Carlos Rogers, Auburn
CB Justin Miller, Clemson
CB Marlin Jackson, Michigan
CB Bryant McFadden, Florida St.
CB Eric Green, Virginia Tech
CB Corey Webster, L.S.U.

And here are the Safeties :
S Thomas Davis, Georgia
S Ernest Shazor, Michigan
S Brodney Pool, Oklahoma
S Donte Nickolson, Oklahoma
S Michael Huff, Texas

What we really need is a CB and a FS, and we could get a DE later but Eric Hicks is not gonna be replaced and is not as bad as some think.

Fairplay
01-08-2005, 06:07 AM
I like Marlin Jackson out of Michigan personally.

Fairplay
01-08-2005, 06:07 AM
Screw the safties, we need CB's!

Fairplay
01-08-2005, 06:08 AM
Antrel Rolle will be long gone by the time our pick comes up anyway.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:09 AM
The 3 I really like is Carlos Rogers, Justin Miller, and Marlin Jackson.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:12 AM
I know he will I was just posting who is available. And man I was actually thinking more in the lines of drafting a corner first and then safety in the second round.

Then CB 3rd and possibly DE in the 4th round.

Fairplay
01-08-2005, 06:13 AM
The 3 I really like is Carlos Rogers, Justin Miller, and Marlin Jackson.




Rogers, no way. Miller would be my second pick with Jackson the first.
Rolle is already taken.

Fairplay
01-08-2005, 06:16 AM
I know he will I was just posting who is available. And man I was actually thinking more in the lines of drafting a corner first and then safety in the second round.

Then CB 3rd and possibly DE in the 4th round.




To be quite honest with you. I would not doubt if Carl concedes the first pick for a second,third and 5th round player.
Then it would be an all new, who would you pick? Thread.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:17 AM
Rogers, no way. Miller would be my second pick with Jackson the first.
Rolle is already taken.

Why do you have something against Rogers. I mean the guy is a good player. What is it you dont like about him ???

Fairplay
01-08-2005, 06:21 AM
Why do you have something against Rogers. I mean the guy is a good player. What is it you dont like about him ???



Hes not bad. I just think Jackson is better. Thats my opinion.
Maybe Rogers is better for our team.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:25 AM
Hes not bad. I just think Jackson is better. Thats my opinion.
Maybe Rogers is better for our team.

Ok, plus Miller is from around here. Just a hour from where im at, he was born in Ownesboro, KY and frow what i've heard he is a pretty good player too.

I've heard alot of good things about Rogers too just havent hardly heard anything about Jackson and WHO THE HELL IS PAC-MAN JONES ???

Fairplay
01-08-2005, 06:33 AM
I've heard alot of good things about Rogers too just havent hardly heard anything about Jackson and WHO THE HELL IS PAC-MAN JONES ???




Pac-Man Jones. If we pick him first i will not be very happy. I would much rather have Rogers then him. Hes just an under wieght over achiever. Plus, Rory, you have to look at the talent the schools play against. West Virginia? Ummm, no.

siberian khatru
01-08-2005, 06:41 AM
I've seen Rogers play 3-4 times this year, and he impressed me every time. I even saw him come up and make tackles in run support.

But what the hell do I know about football? :shrug:

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:43 AM
Pac-Man Jones. If we pick him first i will not be very happy. I would much rather have Rogers then him. Hes just an under wieght over achiever. Plus, Rory, you have to look at the talent the schools play against. West Virginia? Ummm, no.

Umm dude i was just wondering who the hell he was and I dont want us to pick him. I'd flip out if I ever heard "AND PAC-MAN JONES WITH THE INTERCEPTION AND HE"S GONNA TAKE IT TO THE HOUSE".

I dont know i more want Rogers and Miller but I would settle for Jackson if they arent available.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:48 AM
Ok, here we go, scouting reports on the 3 guys we all like :

First off CB Carlos Rogers from Auburn :
Carlos Rogers

College: Auburn
Height: 6-1
Weight: 194
Position: Cornerback
Class: Senior
40-Yard: 4.45

SCOUTING REPORT

Strengths: Excellent size and speed for the position...Tough player who will fight through injuries...Great athleticism...Good ball skills and has become a a playmaker as a senior...Has a lot of experience and made an impact early on as a freshman.

Weaknesses: Doesn't always play up to his physical tools...Isn't a great tackler...Not very stout against the run...Has a lot of work to do in terms of his technique...Needs to master the nuances of the position rather than relying on his physical gifts so much.

Notes: Has just the type of size / speed ratio you are looking for in an NFL corner...A bit of an underachiver throughout his career but came on as a senior...You can bet some team will be more than willing to take a chance on a player with his physical tools and he could go a little higher than his play on the field would suggest.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:49 AM
Second off CB Justin Miller from Clemson :

Justin Miller

College: Clemson
Height: 5-11
Weight: 200
Position: Cornerback
Class: Junior
40-Yard: 4.40

SCOUTING REPORT

Strengths: Playmaker in the secondary...Has great ball skills and a knack for making the big play...Very good speed and quickness...Fluid hips in coverage...Excellent athletic ability...Has a lot of experience despite being just a true junior...A threat to score every time he touches the ball...Physical and likes to hit...Also a dynamic return man.

Weaknesses: Only average size...Had a down year as a sophomore...Gambles too much in an effort to make the big play...Inconsistent and will lose his concentration...Had some off the field problems...Can be too confident for his own good.

Notes: Has just about everything the NFL is look for in a top cornerback...Not a finished product by any means, but a playmaker like this won't last long when he enters the draft.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:51 AM
Thirdly CB Marlin Jackson from Michigan.

Marlin Jackson

College: Michigan
Height: 6-1
Weight: 196
Position: Cornerback
Class: Senior
40-Yard: 4.40

SCOUTING REPORT

Strengths: Great size...Excellent athlete...Very physical and aggressive...Good speed with the ability to close in a hurry...Really steps up and rises to the occasion when facing top wideouts.

Weaknesses: Had a down junior season when he was moved to safety...Character might be a concern after some off the field troubles in 2003...Inconsistent at times and may lack top awareness.

Notes: Bounced back nicely as a senior when he made the move back to his natural cornerback position...Should vie to be either the second or third cornerback off the board come April of '05.

royr17
01-08-2005, 06:52 AM
There they are guys, Carlos Rogers, Justin Miller, and Marlin Jacksons reports from NFL Draft Countdown.

philfree
01-08-2005, 08:17 AM
Smell Kiper writes that Rogers is a good open field tackler and is an asset in run support :shrug: I liked his intensity when I watched him play.


PhilFree :arrow:

DaKCMan AP
01-08-2005, 08:17 AM
I wouldn't mind trading down to take one of those CBs or even late into the 1st or early 2nd to take Corey Webster.

whoman69
01-08-2005, 08:18 AM
If we are going for the 4th best available CB with the 15th pick in the first round, then something is wrong. These lists are yet incomplete as most underclassmen have yet to declare.
What sucks is just about every draft site I used last year is now going by membership.

DaKCMan AP
01-08-2005, 08:21 AM
Corey Webster

College: LSU
Height: 6-0
Weight: 201
Position: Cornerback
Class: Senior
40-Yard: 4.50

SCOUTING REPORT

Strengths: Excellent athletic ability...Good ball skills and hands...Great instincts...Good size and lanky frame...Just touching the tip of the iceberg in terms of his potential.

Weaknesses: Doesn't have a lot of experience at corner...Still learning the nuances of the position...Has to refine his technique...Doesn't have elite speed.

Notes: Former wide receiver...Didn't have the amazing senior season most were expecting but his physical tools and upside are hard to ignore.

ChiefsFanatik88
01-08-2005, 08:22 AM
It's not gonna matter who we pick in the draft anyway. Vermiel will say the kid is not ready, needs to take off the diapers and then about 3/4 of the way through the season the kid will crack the starting lineup and be the best cornerback since James Hasty

cdcox
01-08-2005, 08:25 AM
I don't watch collge ball. But from the descriptions, I would like Miller from Clemson, followed by Jackson from Michigan. Rogers being an underachiever does not seem compatible with a coaching staff that has a terrible track record on developing defensive backs. If Gunita is gone, I might reconsider, depending on who they got as DB coach.

ChiefsFanatik88
01-08-2005, 08:26 AM
Ok, here we go, scouting reports on the 3 guys we all like :

First off CB Carlos Rogers from Auburn :
Carlos Rogers

College: Auburn
Height: 6-1
Weight: 194
Position: Cornerback
Class: Senior
40-Yard: 4.45

SCOUTING REPORT



Weaknesses: Doesn't always play up to his physical tools...Isn't a great tackler...Not very stout against the run...Has a lot of work to do in terms of his technique...Needs to master the nuances of the position rather than relying on his physical gifts so much.

Great, another player that can't tackle very well, Can't defend the run. No Thanks, we got enough of these on the team all ready.

philfree
01-08-2005, 08:43 AM
I don't watch collge ball. But from the descriptions, I would like Miller from Clemson, followed by Jackson from Michigan. Rogers being an underachiever does not seem compatible with a coaching staff that has a terrible track record on developing defensive backs. If Gunita is gone, I might reconsider, depending on who they got as DB coach.


IMO these draft profiles need to taken with a grain of salt. Each one is one mans opinion. And a underachiever? Didn't Rogers just win the Thorpe Award for the best CB in the Nation? How is that underachieving? What's the guy gotta do win it 4 years straight? I may be wrong but I bet that all the CBs after Rolle move up in the draft rankings between now and the draft. Seems like CBs and DEs always do.


PhilFree :arrow:

cdcox
01-08-2005, 08:58 AM
I think the premimum lies with guys that are freakish physical specimens (combo of size and speed) and have also shown some football ability. Workouts really help these guys. So the guys that tend to go in the first half of the first round are: CB with good speed and size, any DL that shows potential to be a monster, massive OT with good footwork, and WR with blazinig speed and decent size. Also QB for obvious reasons.

You may get a few RB, S, LB, TE, and interior lOL guys taken early, but these will be great football players, guys who have the potential to be the best coming out of college at their position in a multiyear time period. It is interesting that RB is not more of a premium position, given the importance of their role in the offense. But clearly you can get a top caliber back later in the draft.

philfree
01-08-2005, 09:25 AM
I just joined a premium draft site and in the profile they had they said Rogers ahd only allowed 18 receptions all season. Because it's a premium site I cant copy and past it. They had Miller ranked as the #1 CB and Rogers #2. I'm not saying these guys are right but it's just an example of different perceptions put forth in the player profiles. The main thing is that if we choose to target CB in the 1st round of the draft we should be able to get a good one.

PhilFree :arrow:

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-08-2005, 09:29 AM
CB Pac-Man Jones, West Virginia

ROFL

That's awesome!

Straight, No Chaser
01-08-2005, 09:44 AM
I don't know how seriously you can trust some of the scouting descriptions of the cornerbacks the Chiefs may be interested in. It's kind of like reading descriptions of personal ads on the back page; it sounds good on paper but you'll only know for sure after a test drive. Internally, the Chiefs scouts will make their own private assessments and given the wants and needs of the team (Gunther, Al, and DV) they will rank these guys. At that point, none of these "soundbites" published by the so-called gurus will matter diddly squat. Translation: We need a cornerback that can excel in Gunther's scheme, preferrably cloned from either Deron Cherry, James Hasty or has the uncanny skills of a young Dale Carter.


--->

alanm
01-08-2005, 10:27 AM
F*ck the KC Star board. Those guys are bigger morons than we are. :thumb:

Cochise
01-08-2005, 10:28 AM
Miller or Rogers plz~

philfree
01-08-2005, 10:45 AM
With about 7 good CB prospects in the draft I'm wondering which one is gonna slip to our 2nd round pick. Browner maybe. This draft is deep in the one position that's been identified as a position of need on the worst pass D in the league. Depending what happens in free agency I wouldn't be oppossed to doubling up on CBs in the draft. IMO we'd be better off with 2 rookies over Barttee and McCleon.

PhilFree :arrow:

Herzig
01-08-2005, 10:47 AM
I would be so frikin happy if we drafted Rogers. I watched him play quite a bit since the Razorbacks are in the SEC. He's a stud...plus he plays against top-notch teams in the SEC. ONLY 18 receptions allowed :eek: !! Jim Thorpe award winner...played great in the Sugar bowl. Plays through injuries. What's not to like?

Skip Towne
01-08-2005, 10:53 AM
F*ck the KC Star board. Those guys are bigger morons than we are. :thumb:
Bigger morons than us? Damn, they must REALLY be stupid.

2bikemike
01-08-2005, 10:59 AM
Man I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet.




Carlos Rodgers is no Rich Scanlon! :D

HolmeZz
01-08-2005, 11:07 AM
Justin Miller is far from a top flight corner. If he hadn't made a name for him in the return game, he'd be a lot less known than he currently is.

Adam 'Pac-Man' Jones is an absolute ballhawk. He's only about 5'11, but he's got great speed and one of the best tacklers/hitters in the draft. I'd love to have him.

Carlos Rogers is a good corner, although I'd rather we not have to take him in the first round. He's got good height. He's a good hitter in the open field, but not a particularly good wrap-up tackler, which is what I think we need. I think he'll fair well at the next level.

Marlin Jackson's stock slid pretty far after this season. He's been switching between corner and safety for the last year or so, and does look confused out there. I'm not particularly high on him, although he has the potential to be good. He's apparently had off the field problems, which is something that doesn't sit well with CP.

Corey Webster had a weak senior campaign. He was a lock to be a top 3 corner back before the season, now that doesn't even look likely. He's got all the physical tools to be good, but he's still pretty raw at corner.

royr17
01-09-2005, 06:46 AM
bump

htismaqe
01-09-2005, 07:33 AM
Justin Miller is far from a top flight corner. If he hadn't made a name for him in the return game, he'd be a lot less known than he currently is.

Adam 'Pac-Man' Jones is an absolute ballhawk. He's only about 5'11, but he's got great speed and one of the best tacklers/hitters in the draft. I'd love to have him.

Carlos Rogers is a good corner, although I'd rather we not have to take him in the first round. He's got good height. He's a good hitter in the open field, but not a particularly good wrap-up tackler, which is what I think we need. I think he'll fair well at the next level.

Marlin Jackson's stock slid pretty far after this season. He's been switching between corner and safety for the last year or so, and does look confused out there. I'm not particularly high on him, although he has the potential to be good. He's apparently had off the field problems, which is something that doesn't sit well with CP.

Corey Webster had a weak senior campaign. He was a lock to be a top 3 corner back before the season, now that doesn't even look likely. He's got all the physical tools to be good, but he's still pretty raw at corner.

None of these guys are "top-flight" CB's. Few are going from college to the NFL. But Miller has all of the tools to be one.

Rogers is solid. But the thing that makes me want Miller over Rogers is that Miller has the ability to be a game-breaker. Rogers is solid.

Marlin Jackson played S last year. He didn't split time at all this year, he played CB. He did have off-field problems. IIRC, he hit someone with a beer bottle.

And IMO Corey Webster=Julian Battle.

htismaqe
01-09-2005, 07:34 AM
Oh, back to the original post:

Besides, our cornerback issue will more than likely be figured out with a free agent signing.

"A" free agent signing. WRONG. We need more than 1 CB this offseason. And Gunther has already said he wants one from the draft and one from free agency.

royr17
01-09-2005, 07:39 AM
Sign a CB and Draft One ... and then draft a FS, QB, and a DE.

philfree
01-09-2005, 08:12 AM
None of these guys are "top-flight" CB's. Few are going from college to the NFL. But Miller has all of the tools to be one.

Rogers is solid. But the thing that makes me want Miller over Rogers is that Miller has the ability to be a game-breaker. Rogers is solid.

Marlin Jackson played S last year. He didn't split time at all this year, he played CB. He did have off-field problems. IIRC, he hit someone with a beer bottle.

And IMO Corey Webster=Julian Battle.

I'd have to disagree with the Battle/Webster comparison. I don't have Battles college pedigree but I don't think it is anything close to Websters. He had 7 ints in back to back seasons 25 pdus one of those years and had two ints this year. That's production at the CB position. I don't recall Battle having any thing close those numbers. Does any of the other CBs in the draft have numbers like that against that kind of competition? IMO he could be the guy that best fits what Gun wants in a CB better then any of the others.

PhilFree :arrow:

Manila-Chief
01-09-2005, 08:25 AM
Sign a CB and Draft One ... and then draft a FS, QB, and a DE.

No LB?

Why draft a QB? Wouldn't that be just wasting a pick? Especially if we draft one late in the draft? We need a QBOF and not stretch.

royr17
01-09-2005, 08:29 AM
Because there is a QB from Purdue and UConn that I like that we need to go after ...

royr17
01-09-2005, 10:12 AM
I want either Carlos Rogers, Justin Miller, or Marlin Jackson and Sign Lucas and Bell !!!

Dave Lane
01-09-2005, 10:28 AM
The 3 I really like is Carlos Rogers, Justin Miller, and Marlin Jackson.

I like Carlos personally. He'd be my #1 where we are at.

Dave