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Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:04 AM
ROFL

Jake has got plenty of heart. He just can't pass from the pocket very well. He doesn't have pocket skills to hide his actions when he's standing in there. You know what Jake is going to do when he's in the pocket, because he's telegraphing it. From staring down routes, to hesitating before passes, Jake gives defenders the opportunity to react to what he's doing before he does it.

The bottom line is, do you, or don't you believe that Jake can win a Superbowl with the Broncos. It's my unfortunate displeasure to say that I don't. I love everything about Jake except the fact that he can't pass from the pocket, and we are in a passing league right now. We need a more complete quarterback.

KCTitus
01-10-2005, 08:08 AM
Odd that we're not seeing Teej posting here today. That's really unusual for him.

Mr. Kotter
01-10-2005, 08:08 AM
Elvis Grbac is available... :hmmm:

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:09 AM
Bottom line is, there are no free agent options that appeal to me. I understand the issues with him in the pocket. Griese was a better pocket passer and less mobile.

There just aren't many really good QBs that have both... none that are on the market or in the draft.

So, you work with what you have. 4,000+ yards and 27 TDs is good. 20 INTs is not, but we'll go from there.

KCTitus
01-10-2005, 08:09 AM
How much is that roster bonus this offseason? 8M?

Saulbadguy
01-10-2005, 08:10 AM
Kurt Warner.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:10 AM
Bottom line is, there are no free agent options that appeal to me.

Drew Brees might be available.

Garcia Bronco
01-10-2005, 08:11 AM
How much is that roster bonus this offseason? 8M?


6 million...not that much spread out. MHM said it...their just isn't anybody else out there the would make the change worth it.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:13 AM
6 million...not that much spread out. MHM said it...their just isn't anybody else out there the would make the change worth it.

Erm, doesn't he get all 6 million at once since it's a roster bonus?

And that's in addition to his salary.

The Broncos need to upgrade their offensive line in the worst way, too. Plummer has his problems, but they are only magnified by horrible pass protection.

RNR
01-10-2005, 08:13 AM
6 million...not that much spread out. MHM said it...their just isn't anybody else out there the would make the change worth it.
Do you think Brees is worth a look if the Chargers don't tag him?

Coach
01-10-2005, 08:14 AM
As much as Taco would want a new QB, I don't see Shanahan is going to get one, considering that he wants to pick up Jake's option (Not sure if that's been done yet.)

I think Denver will be stuck with Jake Plummer for awhile.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:15 AM
I'm not buying. I just don't see much upside from here with Plummer. He is what he is, and more importantly, he isn't what he isn't... and that's a pocket passer. I just don't see him winning a Superbowl for anybody.

Garcia Bronco
01-10-2005, 08:15 AM
Erm, doesn't he get all 6 million at once since it's a roster bonus?

And that's in addition to his salary.

The Broncos need to upgrade their offensive line in the worst way, too. Plummer has his problems, but they are only magnified by horrible pass protection.

It's still a signing bonus spread out over the life of the contract....I'm sure Bowlen has the cash flow if that's what you're refering to.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:15 AM
GC...

Look at the passing yards, rushing yards and sacks allowed. The Oline isn't in shambles.

Brees will likely be franchised and cost a team two #1 picks and I haven't seen enough from the 1-year wonder to view him as worthy.

One of the keys in FA ... beware of players that kicked ass in their contract year.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:17 AM
Do you think Brees is worth a look if the Chargers don't tag him?

Not for the price. If you ask me to give $4M a year and a big bonus to either Plummer or Drew... I choose Plummer. He knows the system and Brees has performed for 1 year only. I'm not saying he won't rock for years to come, but I don't see him doing better than Plummer in Denver... they have other areas to address that can improve the team with Plummer.

Coach
01-10-2005, 08:17 AM
One of the keys in FA ... beware of players that kicked ass in their contract year.

This one I can deftinaly relate, since there are quite a few FA's that will be somewhat wanting top-notch money, only giving little production. (I.E. Hugh Douglas)

Garcia Bronco
01-10-2005, 08:17 AM
Do you think Brees is worth a look if the Chargers don't tag him?

Given our situation...maybe...

We don't have a good pass protecting o-line...Brees would have to be able to move. I'll be honest though...haven't watched him enough to see how mobile he is....it could work out though.

Cochise
01-10-2005, 08:18 AM
the Rat has staked what's left of his rep on him.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:18 AM
Look at the passing yards, rushing yards and sacks allowed. The Oline isn't in shambles.

You and I both know that the sacks allowed is low mostly due to Plummer's mobility.

When Plummer was forced to stand in the pocket against KC, the Chiefs nailed him 6 times.

Plummer runs for his life more than any QB in the league. You need an upgrade at two or three spots on the O-Line.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:18 AM
This one I can deftinaly relate, since there are quite a few FA's that will be somewhat wanting top-notch money, only giving little production. (I.E. Hugh Douglas)

Case in point ... Muhsin. He's a FA and had a PHENOMENAL year... he'll want to get paid, I'm wondering what will happen with him.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:19 AM
You and I both know that the sacks allowed is low mostly due to Plummer's mobility.

When Plummer was forced to stand in the pocket against KC, the Chiefs nailed him 6 times.

Plummer runs for his life more than any QB in the league. You need an upgrade at two or three spots on the O-Line.

Yes, in one game ... Denver gave up 6 of the 16 (?) sacks over the season. The Oline has it's strengths, run blocking being the key - so they need a QB with mobility. You pointed that out in your statement.

Coach
01-10-2005, 08:20 AM
Case in point ... Muhsin. He's a FA and had a PHENOMENAL year... he'll want to get paid, I'm wondering what will happen with him.

Well he is over 30, since I'm not sure what his exact age is, but I would think that his production will slip once he gets that money. It's usually like this for most old-aged "veterans".

I would think you would know what I mean when the name "Dan Williams" is mentioned.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:20 AM
Given our situation...maybe...

We don't have a good pass protecting o-line...Brees would have to be able to move. I'll be honest though...haven't watched him enough to see how mobile he is....it could work out though.

He's pretty mobile...kind of a tweener in that area.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:22 AM
One thing about Jake running for his life... many times, those were designed rollouts/bootlegs to take advantage of what the defense offered.

Again - not saying the Oline is perfect, there's a FA or two that needs to be resigned or upgraded. But, if Jake had a consistent safety blanket (read solid TE), then a lot of that running for his life as you describe is eliminated.

He's not a great pocket passer... I've never denied it, but they typically game plan around that and it has worked.

RNR
01-10-2005, 08:26 AM
Not for the price. If you ask me to give $4M a year and a big bonus to either Plummer or Drew... I choose Plummer. He knows the system and Brees has performed for 1 year only. I'm not saying he won't rock for years to come, but I don't see him doing better than Plummer in Denver... they have other areas to address that can improve the team with Plummer.
That is the catch, is it he has reached that point where he gets it, or is he a one year wonder. I went on record saying I thought Plummer would be a real good QB in that system. He has not got there yet, and at this point I wonder if he will.

I also would not be shocked to see Shanny coaching the 49ers. They need a coach, he needs a fresh start. I would not be shocked to see huge change in Denver. It will be a very interesting offseason.

royr17
01-10-2005, 08:27 AM
OH NO, say it aint so, wtf happened Taco a few years before you was comparing Green and Plummer and saying that Plummer was gonna be a better QB then GREEN.

SO WTF HAPPEN TO THAT ?

Just goes to show how ignorant Donkey fans can be.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:28 AM
OH NO, say it aint so, wtf happened Taco a few years before you was comparing Green and Plummer and saying that Plummer was gonna be a better QB then GREEN.

SO WTF HAPPEN TO THAT ?

Just goes to show how ignorant Donkey fans can be.

You need to teach us to be smarter.

Cochise
01-10-2005, 08:30 AM
I think it's pretty obvious what the situation is here.

Plummer needs to scramble to be effective, the Rat figured that out. It's not because for some reason he magically becomes a decent quarterback when his feet are moving. It's because (1) he can't read the whole field (2) when receiving pressure in the pocket he tends to lob the ball up for grabs.

Sorry, Peter King and other Plummer pimps. He's not just somehow "good throwing on the run". He doesn't suddenly understand football when he leaves the tackle box. He doesn't all of a sudden gain the ability to throw a pass on target when moving. The reason is because he sucks at performing the full duties of a starting QB in the NFL so they have to make things simpler for him.

royr17
01-10-2005, 08:30 AM
You need to teach us to be smarter.

Sure if you ever become a chiefs fan that goal will have been succeeded.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:31 AM
I think it's pretty obvious what the situation is here.

Plummer needs to scramble to be effective, the Rat figured that out. It's not because for some reason he magically becomes a decent quarterback when his feet are moving. It's because (1) he can't read the whole field (2) when receiving pressure in the pocket he tends to lob the ball up for grabs.

Sorry, Peter King and other Plummer pimps. He's not just somehow "good throwing on the run". He doesn't suddenly understand football when he leaves the tackle box. He doesn't all of a sudden gain the ability to throw a pass on target when moving. The reason is because he sucks at performing the full duties of a starting QB in the NFL so they have to make things simpler for him.

And still, he had a good 2004.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:33 AM
You need to teach us to be smarter.

ROFL

Gotta rep that.

Cochise
01-10-2005, 08:49 AM
And still, he had a good 2004.

How about the tank toward the end of the season that left the team limping into the playoff slaughter? Even one more win would have put the team as the 5 seed and avoided the your-number-having Colts.

Iowanian
01-10-2005, 08:52 AM
Didn't the Donks just give Elvis Plummer a 5 year extention a couple of weeks ago?

hahaha

Trent Green > Elvis Plummer

At least Denver traded Portis for Champ Bartee.

the Talking Can
01-10-2005, 08:52 AM
thank god Jack Plummber is the Donco QB

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:53 AM
How about the tank toward the end of the season that left the team limping into the playoff slaughter? Even one more win would have put the team as the 5 seed and avoided the your-number-having Colts.

Sure, had they won at KC or at SD, that would have helped.

Had they not lost by 1 point to Jax, that would have helped.

Had they not lost that big lead late to OAK at home, that would have helped.

Had they not let Chad Johnson and the Bengals go wild, that would have helped.

Had they not been the first team to really let Vick go nuts, rushing and passing, that would have helped.

Pick a game - any of the ones above. It's not all Plummer. The defense failed them just as often and didn't live up to their billing.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:53 AM
thank god Jack Plummber is the Donco QB

I'm glad they were able to make your season, offseason and seasons to come. :clap:

the Talking Can
01-10-2005, 08:54 AM
Plummber can only read half the field at a time...that's why he rolls out, he can't handle the mental strains of a real pass offense...

patteeu
01-10-2005, 08:56 AM
Bottom line is, there are no free agent options that appeal to me. I understand the issues with him in the pocket. Griese was a better pocket passer and less mobile.

There just aren't many really good QBs that have both... none that are on the market or in the draft.

So, you work with what you have. 4,000+ yards and 27 TDs is good. 20 INTs is not, but we'll go from there.

I hate to help you guys out, but Jeff George could probably be signed for a reasonable amount. I'm serious.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:59 AM
he can't handle the mental strains of a real pass offense...

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/9752/mitchellplummer.gif

Cochise
01-10-2005, 08:59 AM
Sure, had they won at KC or at SD, that would have helped.

Had they not lost by 1 point to Jax, that would have helped.

Had they not lost that big lead late to OAK at home, that would have helped.

Had they not let Chad Johnson and the Bengals go wild, that would have helped.

Had they not been the first team to really let Vick go nuts, rushing and passing, that would have helped.

Pick a game - any of the ones above. It's not all Plummer. The defense failed them just as often and didn't live up to their billing.

Sorry. I guess I missed all the games that you wouldn't have won without him. I saw a couple that you might not have lost without him.

RNR
01-10-2005, 08:59 AM
I hate to help you guys out, but Jeff George could probably be signed for a reasonable amount. I'm serious.
ROFL he helped Oakland in the draft, if Denver is looking to move up in the draft he is their guy.

Cochise
01-10-2005, 09:01 AM
ROFL he helped Oakland in the draft, if Denver is looking to move up in the draft he is their guy.

Hey, maybe Todd Marinovich is a free man?

philfree
01-10-2005, 09:02 AM
We'll trade them Todd Collins to them for Champ Bailey :thumb:


PhilFree :arrow:

RNR
01-10-2005, 09:04 AM
Hey, maybe Todd Marinovich is a free man?
Last I heard he had a rock band no kidding!

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 09:05 AM
Plummber can only read half the field at a time...that's why he rolls out, he can't handle the mental strains of a real pass offense...

I'm not totally happy that he's not a "complete" QB... bottom line is that there isn't one available. There really wasn't one available when they signed Plummer. So, they've made the best of the situation - in my opinion.

Yes, he has issues, but he showed this year that he can do well. Jake could have thrown for 15 INTs (even 10) and many would still call him a failure. That's fine.

Going into this season and throughout, I said this was not a "super bowl team", but I believed and still believe the foundation is there. Super Bowl teams are not built over night.

The last draft was a very good draft, the first near complete draft in a long time for Denver. Williams is a stud. Bell looks like he can and will be the real deal in 2005. Luke and Watts showed really nice signs of being #3-4 receivers. Roc Alexander was a street FA (I believe) and while he was inserted as a starter due to injuries and was SMOKED yesterday, he's a rookie and hopefully he learned some painful lessons.

There are a number of holes to fill, but Denver can be a 10+ win team again and compete for the division. The question is, can they game plan better. I don't know if it's Coyer or Shanahan or Kubiak ... but, they had mental lapses at times. Maybe it's burnout for Shanahan, I dunno.

All I know is that Indy again exposed the defense yesterday. I didn't like how Shanahan crafted the game plan in the first half or whether or not he stuck with it.

Denver has the making to be a 10 win team that does only that and nothing else, that's what they've been for 2 years now. They've made some solid moves and draft picks the last 2 years, time to continue that this offseason and hope for the best.

Denver again faded down the stretch in the second half, which is greatly concerning. I'm not sure how they address that, but they need to fix it. Changing QBs isn't the way to fix it in my mind.

Many of their defensive woes are directly drawn back to the ineffective pass rush and lack of creating turnovers. If you're not pressuring the QB and you're not creating turnovers... the defense is in for a long day and that's exactly what they have been the last 2-3 seasons.

Has Plummer done some dumb things? Yes. But, he's played better in big games than the defense has and isn't that where building championship teams start?

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 09:06 AM
I hate to help you guys out, but Jeff George could probably be signed for a reasonable amount. I'm serious.

ROFL Thanks for the chuckle.

morphius
01-10-2005, 09:07 AM
One of the keys in FA ... beware of players that kicked ass in their contract year.

Can't argue with that at all.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 09:09 AM
Sorry. I guess I missed all the games that you wouldn't have won without him. I saw a couple that you might not have lost without him.

I'm not saying he's the end all be all. A field goal on 3rd down within the 30 would have won the game in the final minute at Jax. Q fumbles, game over. Q keeps the ball, Elam kicks the winner on 4th down.

Jake had 3 INTs vs ATL, but also had 499 yds and 4 TDs. Jake didn't let Vick rush for 115 yards and score 2 TDs to Price.

Jake didn't let Porter go for 160 yards and 2 TDs, letting a 13 point lead vanish.

Like I've said .. PLENTY of blame to be shared by those with and without grizzly beards.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 09:10 AM
We'll trade them Todd Collins to them for Champ Bailey :thumb:


PhilFree :arrow:

Eh, they already have an immobile spare at backup ... Danny Kannel.

Straight, No Chaser
01-10-2005, 11:47 AM
I'm not totally happy that he's not a "complete" QB... bottom line is that there isn't one available. There really wasn't one available when they signed Plummer. So, they've made the best of the situation - in my opinion...


All I know is that Indy again exposed the defense yesterday. I didn't like how Shanarat crafted the game plan in the first half or whether or not he stuck with it...

I would agree and certainly, IMO, it wasn't all on Jake yesterday. I was extremely puzzled as to Shanarat 's strategy... Lame, and as far from creative and genius as it gets. I figure after providing the Colts a scouting report in technicolor the week before that Shanarat would've brewed up some surprises, twists, some un-pre-dick-ta-bility for Indy. When the Dolts lead was 21 the Rat refused to go for it on 4th down and 1. "You mean to tell me that with the game slipping away and the opportunity to change momentum the Rat can't show some balls?" WEAK! They need some new coaches that have some activity in the gonads.

Look, Indy was going to get their points yesterday. Being able to watch the third quarter on TV, I was thinking Denver could actually make it interesting. Someone forgot to tell their defensive players they were trying to climb back in a football game. Shooting their mouths off all week was probably not a good idea but at least they could've tried to look like they wanted to make a big play defensively. Shanarat needs to let Jake be Jake or let Jake go. It's too bad the Donks didn't represent the West yesterday. Instead, thanks to the Donk coaches, they put in the tape from last year and pressed the "PLAY" button.


--->

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 12:03 PM
I would agree and certainly, IMO, it wasn't all on Jake yesterday. I was extremely puzzled as to Shanarat 's strategy... Lame, and as far from creative and genius as it gets. I figure after providing the Colts a scouting report in technicolor the week before that Shanarat would've brewed up some surprises, twists, some un-pre-dick-ta-bility for Indy. When the Dolts lead was 21 the Rat refused to go for it on 4th down and 1. "You mean to tell me that with the game slipping away and the opportunity to change momentum the Rat can't show some balls?" WEAK! They need some new coaches that have some activity in the gonads.

Look, Indy was going to get their points yesterday. Being able to watch the third quarter on TV, I was thinking Denver could actually make it interesting. Someone forgot to tell their defensive players they were trying to climb back in a football game. Shooting their mouths off all week was probably not a good idea but at least they could've tried to look like they wanted to make a big play defensively. Shanarat needs to let Jake be Jake or let Jake go. It's too bad the Donks didn't represent the West yesterday. Instead, thanks to the Donk coaches, they put in the tape from last year and pressed the "PLAY" button.


--->

I would love to disagree... hopefully they will burn the 2003 and 2004 post season game plans and tapes.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 12:03 PM
Look, Indy was going to get their points yesterday. Being able to watch the third quarter on TV, I was thinking Denver could actually make it interesting. Someone forgot to tell their defensive players they were trying to climb back in a football game. Shooting their mouths off all week was probably not a good idea but at least they could've tried to look like they wanted to make a big play defensively. Shanarat needs to let Jake be Jake or let Jake go. It's too bad the Donks didn't represent the West yesterday. Instead, thanks to the Donk coaches, they put in the tape from last year and pressed the "PLAY" button.


--->

The offensive pace in the second half was disgusting. There was no sense of urgency at all.

Sure-Oz
01-10-2005, 12:39 PM
They can keep plummer he is awesome!!

cdcox
01-10-2005, 12:43 PM
The offensive pace in the second half was disgusting. There was no sense of urgency at all.

When your house has burnt to the gound and you are sifting through the ashes to salvage anything of value, there is no need to make haste.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 12:46 PM
When your house has burnt to the gound and you are sifting through the ashes to salvage anything of value, there is no need to make haste.

The Donks made it 35-17 at the end of 3 quarters. If they had been in the hurry up it could have been 35-24 or better.

I dunno, maybe Plummer's not capable of running a no-huddle offense.

The playcalling was stupid though. They ran the ball 12 times in the second half.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 06:18 PM
More shocking reveal from TJ:

Sorry Mike... We need a more consistent quarterback. I agree, we were close. But without a quarterback who can be counted on from week to week, especially during the clutch stretch, we're going to get the same results.

You can't gameplan a ball control offense with a quarterback who can't control the ball. You can't expect clutch wins over the stretch with a quarterback who can't stand in the pocket and deliver. Jake has proven over the course of his career, including his two years in Denver, that he can't do either effectively.

Brian Griese was a fundamentally better quarterback than Jake. He just didn't have the heart and never say die disposition that Jake has, let alone mobility given the terrible offensive lines we had during that time. Our offensive line isn't the best pass protecting line in the league now, but it's good enough to get the job done. Lepsis was a monster out there against Freeny on Sunday. What a great job.

I hate to say it, but we need a new quarterback.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 07:14 PM
Boy, this well is far from dry:

I hate to be the guy who defended Griese and abandoned Jake, but nobody can accuse me of not learning my lessons. And I love everything about Jake, except that he simply is not consistent in the pocket. There's just no two ways around that.

I defended Griese, because at the time, I thought we had an inferior offensive line, especially when it came to the passing game. Those guys couldn't create a pocket if they were working for Levi Strauss. Griese had the blind side protection of Gene Wilder in See No Evil.

Plummer can't claim that. We've gotten a pretty good group of offensive linemen, and credit Dennison for maintaining the good thing that Alex Gibbs installed here. But when your quarterback hesistates in the pocket as much as Plummer does, things like tipped balls are going to be the norm.

I just don't believe that we can put together a 13 win team with a quarterback who hesitates in the pocket.

But let me be clear. I'm not saying get rid of Plummer. I didn't want to get rid of Griese. I wanted to bring two quarterbacks in and invest in competition. I wanted to take two guys with shaken confidence and put them up against eachother to compete and learn from eachother.

I am saying, I have my doubts. Plummer didn't develop this year like anyone imagined he would. He looked like Arizona Jake, not like Denver Jake of last year. Typically, I'm a "give him three years" kind of guy, but his contract called for two.

I have no doubt that Jake can make big plays. He's one of the most exciting quarterbacks to watch... for both teams. Turning the ball over is not a recipe for post-season success.

Valiant
01-10-2005, 07:21 PM
ROFL
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Taco John
Jake has got plenty of heart. He just can't pass from the pocket very well. He doesn't have pocket skills to hide his actions when he's standing in there. You know what Jake is going to do when he's in the pocket, because he's telegraphing it. From staring down routes, to hesitating before passes, Jake gives defenders the opportunity to react to what he's doing before he does it.

The bottom line is, do you, or don't you believe that Jake can win a Superbowl with the Broncos. It's my unfortunate displeasure to say that I don't. I love everything about Jake except the fact that he can't pass from the pocket, and we are in a passing league right now. We need a more complete quarterback.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


odd... he told us jake was the perfect QB for their team???

OldTownChief
01-10-2005, 07:26 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Taco John
Jake has got plenty of heart. He just can't pass from the pocket very well. He doesn't have pocket skills to hide his actions when he's standing in there. You know what Jake is going to do when he's in the pocket, because he's telegraphing it. From staring down routes, to hesitating before passes, Jake gives defenders the opportunity to react to what he's doing before he does it.

The bottom line is, do you, or don't you believe that Jake can win a Superbowl with the Broncos. It's my unfortunate displeasure to say that I don't. I love everything about Jake except the fact that he can't pass from the pocket, and we are in a passing league right now. We need a more complete quarterback.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


odd... he told us jake was the perfect QB for their team???
Yep, exactly what he'll say after the Donks first win with Plummit next season. He's so predictable it's funny. The people at the Mane have to see through this twit but just don't call him out.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 07:27 PM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Taco John
Jake has got plenty of heart. He just can't pass from the pocket very well. He doesn't have pocket skills to hide his actions when he's standing in there. You know what Jake is going to do when he's in the pocket, because he's telegraphing it. From staring down routes, to hesitating before passes, Jake gives defenders the opportunity to react to what he's doing before he does it.

The bottom line is, do you, or don't you believe that Jake can win a Superbowl with the Broncos. It's my unfortunate displeasure to say that I don't. I love everything about Jake except the fact that he can't pass from the pocket, and we are in a passing league right now. We need a more complete quarterback.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


odd... he told us jake was the perfect QB for their team???

It took a late season meltdown and a stagnant first half of a playoff game to convince him.

And he's right...Denver's D was strung out to dry by the Donk O in the first half...mostly because of poor third down play by Plummer.

No one wants a QB that only plays well when you're down by 32 points.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 07:28 PM
Yep, exactly what he'll say after the Donks first win with Plummit next season. He's so predictable it's funny. The people at the Mane have to see through this twit but just don't call him out.

I dunno, I guess we'll see. I think TJ is an honest fan, he's just a little bipolar. His ups are high and his downs are low.

OldTownChief
01-10-2005, 07:34 PM
I dunno, I guess we'll see. I think TJ is an honest fan, he's just a little bipolar. His ups are high and his downs are low.

He'll just chalk it up to Shanarat working on Jake's "pocket passing" in the offseason :hump:

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 07:53 PM
It took a late season meltdown and a stagnant first half of a playoff game to convince him.

And he's right...Denver's D was strung out to dry by the Donk O in the first half...mostly because of poor third down play by Plummer.

No one wants a QB that only plays well when you're down by 32 points.

That last part is the dumbest thing that you have ever typed. Well, aside from earlier stating that girls were better looking with their clothes "on".

You've always had a woody for TJ, I wonder if he's aware.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 07:57 PM
That last part is the dumbest thing that you have ever typed. Well, aside from earlier stating that girls were better looking with their clothes "on".

You've always had a woody for TJ, I wonder if he's aware.

Why is that dumb? The best Plummer has played in the playoffs ever was in the second half of that game on Sunday.

I don't have a woody for TJ, but he's alot of fun.

Taco John is the bomb.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 08:06 PM
Why is that dumb? The best Plummer has played in the playoffs ever was in the second half of that game on Sunday.

I don't have a woody for TJ, but he's alot of fun.

Taco John is the bomb.

The second half of yesterday's game was the best ever... ever? I'm guessing his win vs Dallas while with AZ was his best playoff game ever.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 08:09 PM
The second half of yesterday's game was the best ever... ever? I'm guessing his win vs Dallas while with AZ was his best playoff game ever.

Nope, go look it up, he threw two interceptions and his O only put up 20 points.

Arizona won because they held Dallas to 260 yards and picked off Ache-Man 3 times.

Taco John
01-10-2005, 09:30 PM
Odd that we're not seeing Teej posting here today. That's really unusual for him.


I'm planning a press tour for a client, and haven't had a chance to drop in this afternoon. I was here quite a bit yesterday afternoon after the loss...

ChiefsFanatik88
01-10-2005, 09:36 PM
Not for the price. If you ask me to give $4M a year and a big bonus to either Plummer or Drew... I choose Plummer. He knows the system and Brees has performed for 1 year only. I'm not saying he won't rock for years to come, but I don't see him doing better than Plummer in Denver... they have other areas to address that can improve the team with Plummer.

For a donkey fan, you're kinda smart.

ChiefsFanatik88
01-10-2005, 09:43 PM
And still, he had a good 2004.

And he shares the lead in Interceptions

Taco John
01-10-2005, 09:53 PM
He'll just chalk it up to Shanarat working on Jake's "pocket passing" in the offseason :hump:



If Plummer were to improve in the pocket, what would you chalk it up to? A fairy God Mother?

Taco John
01-10-2005, 09:56 PM
odd... he told us jake was the perfect QB for their team???



I've never said no such thing... Prove it.


I've always liked Plummer, and still do. But I've never once said he was the perfect QB for the Broncos. Just that he's better for the Broncos than Brian was.

Taco John
01-10-2005, 09:59 PM
And for what it's worth, I doubt you'll ever win a Superbowl with Trent. That offensive line isn't going to last forever, and once they're done, so is TrINT. He was only 3 ints away from Jake this year. That's pretty piss poor.

Mile High Mania
01-10-2005, 10:00 PM
And he shares the lead in Interceptions

Yes, he had just 3 more than TrINT... same number of TDs. I know... phrase of the year "you're deflecting". No, just comparing.

Rausch
01-10-2005, 10:06 PM
And for what it's worth, I doubt you'll ever win a Superbowl with Trent. That offensive line isn't going to last forever, and once they're done, so is TrINT. He was only 3 ints away from Jake this year. That's pretty piss poor.

And you only had 2 more wins than the Chiefs.

Also piss poor...

2bikemike
01-10-2005, 10:08 PM
Yes, he had just 3 more than TrINT... same number of TDs. I know... phrase of the year "you're deflecting". No, just comparing.

Trent also had 500 more yds and 66 more completions on 35 more attempts.

TEX
01-10-2005, 10:17 PM
Trent also had 500 more yds and 66 more completions on 35 more attempts.

Wow. It's amazing how when more facts are presented the picture becomes more clear. Once again, Taco only includs bits and pieces to paint his own picture. ROFL

TEX
01-10-2005, 10:19 PM
The second half of yesterday's game was the best ever... ever? I'm guessing his win vs Dallas while with AZ was his best playoff game ever.

Wow. I'm impressed. He did it against a prevent trailing 35-3. Don't ya think the Colts let up just a bit? Kind of hard to maintain intensity when you're up by a mile. Just a thought... :hmmm:

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 10:26 PM
17 interceptions is not that high in a high-risk, pass-first O that the Chiefs run. And he still only had 13 going in the season finale.

He also didn't have a stretch where he tossed 9 picks and only 2 TDs. There's that to consider.

Oh, and the fact that Chiefs fans rarely complain about Trent Green. Our passing offense is fine. It's not a concern at ALL.

Count Zarth
01-10-2005, 10:28 PM
As far as Green going when the O-Line goes, it's pretty literal. Willie Roaf and Shields are out of here in 1 to 2 years. So is Green. So I doubt we have to worry about that.

The next QB, however. :shake:

Taco John
01-10-2005, 11:11 PM
And you only had 2 more wins than the Chiefs.

Also piss poor...



I'd never call 10 wins piss poor...

Mile High Mania
01-11-2005, 05:35 AM
Wow. I'm impressed. He did it against a prevent trailing 35-3. Don't ya think the Colts let up just a bit? Kind of hard to maintain intensity when you're up by a mile. Just a thought... :hmmm:

Don't confuse my comment ... Goat Boy called it the best ever. I was questioning it.

Mile High Mania
01-11-2005, 05:36 AM
And you only had 2 more wins than the Chiefs.

Also piss poor...

Hang on... 10 wins and 7 wins, right? Is this new math?

OldTownChief
01-11-2005, 05:54 AM
If Plummer were to improve in the pocket, what would you chalk it up to? A fairy God Mother?

You misunderstood. I didn't say Flake would improve at anything. If anything I would predict him to fail miserably again. I was only predicting your response to his first win next season.

the Talking Can
01-11-2005, 05:57 AM
If Plummer were to improve in the pocket, what would you chalk it up to? A fairy God Mother?

Trent Green wearing a Plummber mask...

OldTownChief
01-11-2005, 06:08 AM
Trent Green wearing a Plummber mask...

All he would need to do is grow a beard and start walking like a fag.

Count Zarth
01-11-2005, 06:19 AM
All he would need to do is grow a beard and start walking like a fag.

OldTownChief
01-11-2005, 06:22 AM
Strong resemblance to Abe Lincoln.

Count Zarth
01-11-2005, 06:22 AM
Strong resemblance to Abe Lincoln.

"Four scores and seven points ago..."

OldTownChief
01-11-2005, 06:24 AM
"Four scores and seven points ago..."

"Chump Bailey was scratching his ass again..."