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View Full Version : Interesting comment on Antrel Rolle from a Miami fan


htismaqe
01-11-2005, 04:50 PM
I was over at the Madden Planet BB browsing around and was reading a thread on a mock draft from Fantasy Football Toolbox.

They have Rolle going FIRST OVERALL.

Several people chimed in saying they didn't think Rolle would even be the 1st CB taken, let alone the 1st player...

That elicited the following comment from one of the more-respected Miami fans on the board:

That was my first thought when I looked at the mock. While I think he has a shot at being the 1st CB if he has a great pro day, it's not likely. He's not the 1st player taken either way though. I don't even know that corner will be the best spot for him, he might make a better safety.

htismaqe
01-11-2005, 04:55 PM
OK, NFL Draft Countdown has him going 10th to the Cowboys with the following write-up:

After letting Mario Edwards leave as a free agent the team was relying on the essentially unproven and untested Pete Hunter to start opposite Terence Newman, but Hunter was lost for the season with an injury and that combined with Newman's drop-off in play has left Dallas in dire straights in pass defense, seemingly unable to cover anyone. While not an elite, shutdown corner prospect in the same mold as guys like Deion Sanders, Charles Woodson or Champ Bailey, Rolle is right there in the next group and could have a career similar to that of a guy like Chris McAlister. Adding another playmaker like Rolle would give Dallas one of the premier young secondaries in the league and if they choose they could even stick Rolle at free safety next to Roy Williams, which would be an impressive duo indeed. Finding this guy on the board when it is their turn to pick would have to be a dream scenario for the Cowboys. The other direction the team could go is the defensive line since they have major needs at both end as well as tackle so you certainly can't rule out names like Erasmus James, Travis Johnson of Florida St. and Rodrique Wright of Texas since they have little or nothing next to La'Roi Glover and Marcellus Wiley has been a major disappointment after being brought in as a free agent. One final option would be for Dallas to surprise and nab a premier wide receiver like Braylon Edwards since Keyshawn Johnson isn't much of a big play threat and Terry Glenn is getting up there in years. In the end though the decision to take Rolle if he is available would have to qualify as a no-brainer.

beavis
01-11-2005, 04:56 PM
I don't even know that corner will be the best spot for him, he might make a better safety.
You've got to be shitting me.

Hell, I'm sure we'll trade up to get him now.

Fairplay
01-11-2005, 04:57 PM
I think Rolle will be the first CB taken. Doubt the first player. He won't be around by the Chiefs pick anyway. Jackson, Rodgers or Miller will be our pick. Hope its not that Jones kid.

htismaqe
01-11-2005, 04:58 PM
He's a college CB that could play FS in the NFL...

The Chiefs go for the opposite...

htismaqe
01-11-2005, 05:00 PM
Alot of the guys over there seem to think Rolle won't be the 1st CB taken...

They also pretty much agree that Derrick Johnson goes to the Titans at #6.

Skip Towne
01-11-2005, 05:04 PM
So who will be the first pick overall?

Fairplay
01-11-2005, 05:06 PM
The different draft boards i've seen have Rolle being taken in the early first rounds.

Cochise
01-11-2005, 05:07 PM
So who will be the first pick overall?

Thought the Niners wanted Rogers?

shaneo69
01-11-2005, 05:20 PM
I think Rolle's draft position will depend on his 40 time at his pro day. If he runs a 4.34, he could go to Cleveland at #3. If he runs under 4.45, I think he'll be the top CB and go top 10. But if he runs a 4.5, I think one of the other guys like Marlin Jackson will sneak by him.

shaneo69
01-11-2005, 05:21 PM
Thought the Niners wanted Rogers?

Leinart.

Pants
01-11-2005, 05:25 PM
I don't know why, but for some reason I don't see Leinart succeeding in the NFL. Just a feeling though.

HolmeZz
01-11-2005, 06:08 PM
Rolle won't be the first player taken because the Niners have a lot more pressing needs than Cornerback. There isn't a unanimous clear-cut #1 corner in this draft, but if you asked MOST people who pay attention to college and the draft, I think most people would say Rolle's the top guy. It's very much debatable though.

Ralphy Boy
01-11-2005, 06:12 PM
From Sporting News
1 (1) 49ers Aaron Rodgers* QB Cal.
Rodgers has announced he will be coming out for the '05 draft. The 49ers may not keep this first pick but if they do, Rodgers is the right choice to start their rebuilding process. He has shown remarkable improvement the past two years and is ready for the NFL.
2 (2) Dolphins Cedric Benson RB Texas
The Dolphins may not be able to resist Matt Leinart if he comes out -- a big, lefty gunslinger -- but Benson is a better choice for them. He is a fast and physical workhorse-type runner.
3 (3) Browns Derrick Johnson OLB Texas
Johnson is a Ray Lewis-type defender. Cleveland can build a big-time unit around him.
4 (4) Bears Braylon Edwards WR Michigan
The Bears need a go-to receiver. Edwards is a big-time playmaker with tremendous skills, size and speed.
5 (5) Buccaneers Alex Barron T Florida St.
Barron has the strength and athleticism to dominate the line of scrimmage.
6 (6) Titans David Pollack DE Georgia
Pollack is a big, physical and experienced end. His size, speed, and relentless pursuit should make him a dominant NFL player.
7 (7) Raiders Carnell Williams RB Auburn
Williams has the speed, size and lower-body strength to fight for yardage. He will be a welcome addition to a team that finished last in rushing in 2004.
8 (8) Cardinals Matt Leinart* QB USC
The Heisman Trophy winner and Orange Bowl MVP hasn't decided whether he will be an early draft entry. If he is, Leinart could be just the right fit for a young offense that already has very dangerous receivers.
9 (9) Redskins Erasmus James DE Wis.
Washington needs to improve its defensive line. James, powerful and athletic, never gives up plays and excels at both pass-rushing and tackling.
10 (10) Lions Kevin Burnett OLB Tennessee
Burnett has great speed and athleticism. His nonstop hustle, tackling skills and knack for big plays make him a very dangerous player.
11 (11) Cowboys Antrel Rolle CB Miami (FL)
Rolle is the shutdown corner Dallas needs. He has the size, speed, and skills to be a game-altering presence.
12 (12) Chargers Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
(from NY Giants) Jackson, a tough, physical shutdown corner, can have an immediate impact on the San Diego's young secondary.
13 (13) Texans Dan Cody DE Oklahoma
The Texans are one season away from being winners. Cody, a tough, physical, speedy, big-play end is a leader who knows what it takes to win.
14 (14) Panthers Elton Brown G Va.
Brown, a dominant force up front, can blast holes for Stephen Davis and DeShaun Foster.
15 (15) Chiefs Corey Webster CB LSU
Webster, a fast, hard-hitting corner, will bring big playmaking skills and a tough attitude to Kansas City's secondary.
16 (16) Saints Travis Johnson DT Florida St.
Johnson, a quick and strong hard-hitter, can stop the run and excels at getting penetration.
17 (17) Bengals Jamaal Brimmer S UNLV
Brimmer is a tough, hard-hitting, big-play safety whose physical style and aggressive play will make an immediate impact in the Cincinnati's secondary.
18 (18) Vikings Barrett Ruud ILB Nebraska
The Vikings need to upgrade their defense to compete with the top teams. Ruud has the size, speed and hard-hitting tackling ability they sorely need.
19 (19) Rams Antonio Perkins CB Oklahoma
Perkins is just what the St. Louis needs -- an experienced shutdown corner with outstanding speed and skills. He also is a standout special teams performer.
20 (20) Cowboys Jammal Brown T Oklahoma
(from Buffalo) Brown, an athletic giant with outstanding blocking skills, will be just the right addition for a young Dallas offense.
21 (21) Jaguars Mike Williams* WR USC
Williams would be a steal here with his size and outstanding playmaking flair. With his incredible hands, he and Byron Leftwich could be a dynamic duo.
22 (22) Ravens Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma
Clayton, an all-around receiver, does everything very well -- run, jump, catch, and block. He would be a perfect target for Kyle Boller and the right complement for Jamal Lewis.
23 (23) Seahawks Mathias Kiwanuka* DE Boston Coll.
Kiwanuka is a solid underclassman entry. A huge force with speed and great potential, he would bring a game-altering presence to Seattle's defense.
24 (24) Packers Alex Smith* QB Utah
Smith has declared he will enter the draft after an outstanding junior season for the Utes. He has size, speed and a great arm. The chance to learn under Brett Favre will make his decision look even smarter.
25 (25) Broncos Ronnie Brown RB Auburn
Brown, a two-dimensional back, can both run the ball with power and speed and is a big receiving threat. He is the type of player Mike Shanahan would love to have in his backfield.
26 (26) Jets Donte Nicholson S Oklahoma
The Jets need a defensive upgrade. Nicholson, a punishing hitter, excels both in run support and coverage.
27 (27) Falcons Vince Carter C Oklahoma
Carter, a big, powerful center, can give Michael Vick protection and room to roam.
28 (28) Chargers Adam Terry T Syracuse
San Diego's offensive line could use some more youth. Terry has the wingspan to ride off rushers and the blocking skills to open holes for LaDainian Tomlinson.
29 (29) Colts Shaun Cody DT USC
Cody creates matchup problems with his quickness and size. Indianapolis needs big-time defensive playmakers, and he fits that mold.
30 (30) Eagles Anttaj Hawthorne DT Wis.
Hawthorne has the strength and size to be a solid NFL run stopper and is an unblockable force when rushing the passer.
31 (31) Patriots Antwaun Rogers CB Purdue
New England has been hurting in the secondary all season. Rogers is a big, playmaking corner with good experience.
32 (32) Steelers D'Brickashaw Ferguson* T Va.
Ferguson, a junior, seems to be leaning toward staying in school. But if he enters the draft, he could have an immediate impact on Pittsburgh's tough young defense. An exceptional athlete with an enormous wingspan, he also can add more bulk.

Ralphy Boy
01-11-2005, 06:16 PM
Is he related to William Bartee?
Corey Webster
CB, LSU
War Room analysis
Strengths: Has the long arms and upper-body strength to jam receivers well at the line. Is especially difficult to beat on downfield routes because of his height, long arms and leaping ability. Is tough, and relishes contact. Shows good tackling fundamentals.

Weaknesses: Lacks experience at the position. Must improve technique and route-recognition skills. Lacks ideal speed to recover from mistakes.

Bottom line: After spending his first two years at LSU playing wide receiver, 2004 is Webster's third at cornerback. If his technique and route-recognition skills improve, he probably will be selected in the second round by a team that likes to play bump-and-run coverage.

Dan Pompei analysis
Has everything you want in a corner: size, ball skills, cover ability, instincts. Played with a bad ankle this season, and his performance dropped from 2003. Could be better in run support.

Of course, they have him at a 4.59 40 time, so it's good to know he's also a little slow.
It's also good to know the folks at Sporting News know that we like to reach in the first round and have projected accordingly.

2bikemike
01-11-2005, 06:22 PM
I hope we don't take a corner in the first round. I would rather get a good LB. I don't expect any CB to come in and make an immediate impact and that is what we need.

DanT
01-11-2005, 06:44 PM
I knew that Samari Rolle was cousins of Keyshawn Johnson and Chad Johnson (source (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bengals/2002-12-14-johnson_x.htm)), so I wondered whether Antrel is also related to them. Here's what one source on the Internet says, in a 2000 article on what were the top high school cornerbacks in the nation (many of whom are now CB prospects for the 2004 NFL Draft):

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_48_224/ai_67683282


RECRUITING TRAIL RUMBLINGS AND LOCKER ROOM WHISPERS BY BOBBY BURTON

Antrel Rolle has so much in common with the Titans' Samari Rolle--they have same last name, play the same position and both attended Dade County, Fla., high schools--you'd think they're related. They're not--Rolle is a common name in the Bahamas, where both have relatives. They do have one big difference--Samari attended Florida State; Antrel heavily favors Miami.... COPYRIGHT 2000 Sporting News Publishing Co.
COPYRIGHT 2000 Gale Group

philfree
01-11-2005, 07:03 PM
Is he related to William Bartee?
Corey Webster
CB, LSU
War Room analysis
Strengths: Has the long arms and upper-body strength to jam receivers well at the line. Is especially difficult to beat on downfield routes because of his height, long arms and leaping ability. Is tough, and relishes contact. Shows good tackling fundamentals.

Weaknesses: Lacks experience at the position. Must improve technique and route-recognition skills. Lacks ideal speed to recover from mistakes.

Bottom line: After spending his first two years at LSU playing wide receiver, 2004 is Webster's third at cornerback. If his technique and route-recognition skills improve, he probably will be selected in the second round by a team that likes to play bump-and-run coverage.

Dan Pompei analysis
Has everything you want in a corner: size, ball skills, cover ability, instincts. Played with a bad ankle this season, and his performance dropped from 2003. Could be better in run support.

Of course, they have him at a 4.59 40 time, so it's good to know he's also a little slow.
It's also good to know the folks at Sporting News know that we like to reach in the first round and have projected accordingly.


One of the premium sites I'm suscribing(NFL Draft Scout) to this year has Webster with 4.51 40. As far being compared to Bartee, Webster has 16 INTs the last three years at LSU. 7 in his soph year and his 1st year as a starter at CB and then 7 the next year as a Jr and then only 2 as a SR. IMO that speaks way beyond any combine type numbers. Also Bartee ran a 4.3something when we drafted him so these two guys are opposites. Bartee has combine speed with no ball skills or production where as Webster has ball skills and the production that goes along with it. It will be interesting to see what Webster runs at the combine but to me he's as good a prospect as the other guys who are ranked ahead of him. I would not be unhappy if we ended up with Rolle, Rogers, Jackson, Miller or Webster. Those guys are all good prospects and any one of the bunch could end up being the best of the bunch.

PhilFree :arrow:

philfree
01-11-2005, 07:07 PM
I hope we don't take a corner in the first round. I would rather get a good LB. I don't expect any CB to come in and make an immediate impact and that is what we need.

This draft doesn't have many good LBs in it and only one maybe two 1st rounders so getting a good LB probably won't be an option in the 1st round. CBs and DEs are available though and we need both.

PhilFree :arrow:

Baby Lee
01-11-2005, 07:24 PM
Does Coady have the speed and instincts to move to LB? Seems like he'd make a great RB crusher in the mold of Ray Lewis, or if he stays on the line, a smallish Leonard Little type.

Deberg_1990
01-11-2005, 07:48 PM
This draft doesn't have many good LBs in it and only one maybe two 1st rounders so getting a good LB probably won't be an option in the 1st round. CBs and DEs are available though and we need both.

PhilFree :arrow:

Exactly why you take the "best athlete" left on the board when we pick. We need just about every position on the defense so that gives us plenty of options. It also depends very much on what route they decide to go in free agency.

Iowanian
01-11-2005, 07:49 PM
If it goes like that in round 1, I'll be happy with that on a condition.............Move the hell up in round 2 and Get matt Roth.

CanadaKC
01-11-2005, 08:15 PM
http://www.draftshowcase.com/swmock05.htm

RedNeckRaider
01-11-2005, 08:31 PM
http://www.draftshowcase.com/swmock05.htm
7. Oakland R-aiders
Aaron Rodgers, QB, California
If Rodgers starts to slide, I think the R-aiders will be the team to stop the slide. He is a local boy who could sit for a couple years behind Kerry Collins and be the player the R-aiders hang their future on. He is also an excellent fit in the west coast offense.
Got this off your link, not going to happen. Oakland does not run the west coast anymore :rolleyes:

OmahaChief
01-11-2005, 08:38 PM
I was over at the Madden Planet BB browsing around and was reading a thread on a mock draft from Fantasy Football Toolbox.

They have Rolle going FIRST OVERALL.

Several people chimed in saying they didn't think Rolle would even be the 1st CB taken, let alone the 1st player...

That elicited the following comment from one of the more-respected Miami fans on the board:

That was my first thought when I looked at the mock. While I think he has a shot at being the 1st CB if he has a great pro day, it's not likely. He's not the 1st player taken either way though. I don't even know that corner will be the best spot for him, he might make a better safety.


Yeah the guy that locked down Larry Fitzgerald and numerous others last year and played this entire year with nagging injuries and still shut down most opponents should not be a corner. That fan is a moron. Now Rolle might not be the first CB taken, some scouts like the kid at LSU and the kid at WV but if I was betting I would bet he is the first CB off the board. His pro day numbers will be good and he has a proven track record on the field.

BigChiefFan
01-11-2005, 11:26 PM
Yeah the guy that locked down Larry Fitzgerald and numerous others last year and played this entire year with nagging injuries and still shut down most opponents should not be a corner. That fan is a moron. Now Rolle might not be the first CB taken, some scouts like the kid at LSU and the kid at WV but if I was betting I would bet he is the first CB off the board. His pro day numbers will be good and he has a proven track record on the field.
I agree. From what I've seen of Rolle he is the real deal and most likely will be the first corner taken in the draft barring injury. I also believe he goes in the top 15 of all players drafted. I would be ecstatic if Rolle fell to us. We could do a hell of alot worse, especially if we land some quality defenders in FA.

Manila-Chief
01-12-2005, 02:17 AM
One of the premium sites I'm suscribing(NFL Draft Scout) to this year has Webster with 4.51 40. As far being compared to Bartee, Webster has 16 INTs the last three years at LSU. 7 in his soph year and his 1st year as a starter at CB and then 7 the next year as a Jr and then only 2 as a SR. IMO that speaks way beyond any combine type numbers. Also Bartee ran a 4.3something when we drafted him so these two guys are opposites. Bartee has combine speed with no ball skills or production where as Webster has ball skills and the production that goes along with it. It will be interesting to see what Webster runs at the combine but to me he's as good a prospect as the other guys who are ranked ahead of him. I would not be unhappy if we ended up with Rolle, Rogers, Jackson, Miller or Webster. Those guys are all good prospects and any one of the bunch could end up being the best of the bunch.

PhilFree :arrow:

Phil, I agree!!! At best it is a guessing game as to who will be the best. Any of them can step in and set the woods on fire or just be ordinary ... even a bust. Hype a player does not make ... and mostly what we read/hear at this time of the year is hype. But, if we take one and he just becomes a good CB we will be ahead of the game. Now, I'd rather have a shut down CB!!!

All we can do is draft the one that our scouting department determines is the best. (Now, ain't dat a comforting thought????) And, I'm hoping they go for one of these or a stud LB or DL in the first round. At them moment I'd go with a one of these guys.

Ultra Peanut
01-12-2005, 03:39 AM
I think we should draft Thomas Tapeh.

So what if he's already in the league? I don't care. We need a backup in case Easy can't go.

Fairplay
01-12-2005, 03:55 AM
I think we should draft Thomas Tapeh.

So what if he's already in the league? I don't care. We need a backup in case Easy can't go.





We need backups for our backups.

Fairplay
01-12-2005, 04:02 AM
If we got a real good shut down CB. Rolle, Rogers, Jackson, or Miller. That would help the saftys cover are other weak links at CB. Almost like a Champ Bailey coming in to give our defense more options. Presumeing the CB we drafted turned out great.

milkman
01-12-2005, 08:08 AM
Since it usually takes a CB a year or 2 to develop, and since the rules that are so slanted towards the offenses have made the shutdown corner a extinct species, I'd rather draft a LB or DL than CB in the first round.

Chiefnj
01-12-2005, 08:47 AM
From now until the draft millions of rumors are going to fly around; 99.9% of them untrue. You are going to see 40 times and heights and weights on guys that are complete guesses. There will be a half dozen guys with 40 times that would shatter existing world records. There will be guys who can bench a lot of weight who will automatically jump to the top of the LB or DL charts because of it, regardless of how much football they have played or what their techniques are.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 09:51 AM
Yeah the guy that locked down Larry Fitzgerald and numerous others last year and played this entire year with nagging injuries and still shut down most opponents should not be a corner. That fan is a moron. Now Rolle might not be the first CB taken, some scouts like the kid at LSU and the kid at WV but if I was betting I would bet he is the first CB off the board. His pro day numbers will be good and he has a proven track record on the field.

Maybe it's you that's the moron? Or maybe you just didn't bother to READ.

He DID NOT SAY that Rolle should not be a corner. He said he might make a BETTER safety.

donkhater
01-12-2005, 09:52 AM
Who the hell cares where Rolle would play? the dude is a playmaker. The last I looked KC's safties weren't anything to write home about either. Get a stud leader from a top pedigreed program like Miami and hope he is even close to being a type of player and leader like Ray Lewis or Ed Reed.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:22 AM
Who the hell cares where Rolle would play? the dude is a playmaker. The last I looked KC's safties weren't anything to write home about either. Get a stud leader from a top pedigreed program like Miami and hope he is even close to being a type of player and leader like Ray Lewis or Ed Reed.

I think everybody here needs to calm down, take a drink, and figure out that they've COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTOOD this thread.

I thought it was interesting because Rolle is arguably the best CB available in the draft, but somebody I talk to frequently that has seen every game Rolle has played in thought he would make a BETTER free safety.

Last time I checked we need a FS AND a CB.

milkman
01-12-2005, 10:32 AM
I think everybody here needs to calm down, take a drink, and figure out that they've COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTOOD this thread.

I thought it was interesting because Rolle is arguably the best CB available in the draft, but somebody I talk to frequently that has seen every game Rolle has played in thought he would make a BETTER free safety.

Last time I checked we need a FS AND a CB.

I think that the ones that have suggested moving Bartee to safety have the right idea.
He's shown that he can't learn the CB position, but he is athletic, relatively fast, physical, and a hard hitter, all attributes you look for in a safety.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:37 AM
I think that the ones that have suggested moving Bartee to safety have the right idea.
He's shown that he can't learn the CB position, but he is athletic, relatively fast, physical, and a hard hitter, all attributes you look for in a safety.

Maybe, maybe not. Forgive me if I have ZERO confidence that Bartee can play ANY position, let alone play it well.

Rolle is a playmaker the presents us with an opportunity to line him up at either CB or FS, both of which are needs.

To me, he sounds like a perfect use of our 1st-round pick.

milkman
01-12-2005, 10:47 AM
Maybe, maybe not. Forgive me if I have ZERO confidence that Bartee can play ANY position, let alone play it well.

Rolle is a playmaker the presents us with an opportunity to line him up at either CB or FS, both of which are needs.

To me, he sounds like a perfect use of our 1st-round pick.

I think using a 1st round pick on a position that it takes a couple of years to develop at is a waste.
Or using it to draft corner, with the intent to convert him to safety, when you have adequate, if unspectacular, talent at that position already, is also a waste.
Unless, in both scenarios, you are looking to the future, and not to next season.

DLmen and LBs have a far greater chance of making an impact as rookies than CBs, especially in this era when the WRs, as well as the QBs, should all just be dressed in skirts.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:50 AM
I think using a 1st round pick on a position that it takes a couple of years to develop at is a waste.
Or using it to draft corner, with the intent to convert him to safety, when you have adequate, if unspectacular, talent at that position already, is also a waste.
Unless, in both scenarios, you are looking to the future, and not to next season.

DLmen and LBs have a far greater chance of making an impact as rookies than CBs, especially in this era when the WRs, as well as the QBs should all just be dressed in skirts.

I'm looking at both next year and the future.

I agree that 1st-year CB's don't often make an impact.

I disagree that the talent at FS is adequate. Wesley is adequate. Woods flat-out sucks.

A first-year S can start right away. A stud S can make a WORLD of difference in the efficacy of a defense. With Rolle, we get a skilled coverage CB that we can get on the field right away...

BigChiefFan
01-12-2005, 10:55 AM
I think using a 1st round pick on a position that it takes a couple of years to develop at is a waste.
Or using it to draft corner, with the intent to convert him to safety, when you have adequate, if unspectacular, talent at that position already, is also a waste.
Unless, in both scenarios, you are looking to the future, and not to next season.

DLmen and LBs have a far greater chance of making an impact as rookies than CBs, especially in this era when the WRs, as well as the QBs, should all just be dressed in skirts.I agree with the sentiment of using a 1st rounder on a FS is somewhat of a waste ( there are exceptions), but I disagree that it is waste to draft for the future. If Rolle is there, he is a no-brainer, IMO. The guy is a quality player, who would easily become our best CB in the next couple of years, if he progresses to where he is projected to. I've seen some comment that CB isn't as much of a priority and I disagree. It takes all 11 players and corners that can cover and knock players on their asses at the LOS a VERY IMPORTANT in a Gunther scheme.


Can't believe the "gurus" of football are suggesting that solid corners aren't a foundation of a Gunther scheme.

milkman
01-12-2005, 11:06 AM
I'm looking at both next year and the future.

I agree that 1st-year CB's don't often make an impact.

I disagree that the talent at FS is adequate. Wesley is adequate. Woods flat-out sucks.

A first-year S can start right away. A stud S can make a WORLD of difference in the efficacy of a defense. With Rolle, we get a skilled coverage CB that we can get on the field right away...

Woods did suck, no question.
But Harts performed adequately, as did Pile for Wesley.

I don't disagree that we could stand to upgrade at safety, but I don't think that we should use a 1st pick, this draft, to do that, when we have so many other glaring holes.

I also don't agree that a safety has much of an impact as you think.
I think they can make huge contributions when the rest of the D is solid, but are limited by the talent around them.

You might point to Reed as an example, but I would point to Williams.

Reed did make big plays, but in a D that is one of the best.

Williams made big plays last season, when the Cowboys played above their heads, but he was virtually MIA when the Cowboys played to their level.

Give me a LB or DL in the draft.
Sign a FA corner.

That, IMO, is the road that leads to improvement.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 11:10 AM
Woods did suck, no question.
But Harts performed adequately, as did Pile for Wesley.

I don't disagree that we could stand to upgrade at safety, but I don't think that we should use a 1st pick, this draft, to do that, when we have so many other glaring holes.

I also don't agree that a safety has much of an impact as you think.
I think they can make huge contributions when the rest of the D is solid, but are limited by the talent around them.

You might point to Reed as an example, but I would point to Williams.

Reed did make big plays, but in a D that is one of the best.

Williams made big plays last season, when the Cowboys played above their heads, but he was virtually MIA when the Cowboys played to their level.

Give me a LB or DL in the draft.
Sign a FA corner.

That, IMO, is the road that leads to improvement.

It's all going to boil down to value. There might not be a DL or LB there at #15 that's worth a #15 pick.

I agree we should try to get a LB or DE in the 1st round, but not at the expense of passing up on a REAL talent.

If your contention is that we should not draft a CB or S in the 1st round, REGARDLESS of talent, I would suggest that the best move for the Chiefs would be to trade down into the mid-20's. There will be several d-linemen available late in the 1st...

milkman
01-12-2005, 11:17 AM
I agree with the sentiment of using a 1st rounder on a FS is somewhat of a waste ( there are exceptions), but I disagree that it is waste to draft for the future. If Rolle is there, he is a no-brainer, IMO. The guy is a quality player, who would easily become our best CB in the next couple of years, if he progresses to where he is projected to. I've seen some comment that CB isn't as much of a priority and I disagree. It takes all 11 players and corners that can cover and knock players on their asses at the LOS a VERY IMPORTANT in a Gunther scheme.


Can't believe the "gurus" of football are suggesting that solid corners aren't a foundation of a Gunther scheme.

I'm saying that the Chiefs window in the Dick era is going to close after next season.
If the team wants to compete, and make a run at the SB with Dick, then drafting for the future is not an option.

If, however, that is not the case, and there is no urgency to make that run next season, then I'm all for drafting for the future.

And the gurus, if I may speak for them (I'm not suggesting that I am one), are not suggesting that solid cover corners are not important to Gunther's scheme.

They are suggesting that, with the rules slanted the way they are, that shutdown corners, like dinosaurs, are extinct, a creature of a bygone era.

I want a good, solid, cover corner.
I just know, that without a superior front 7, the CB is going to get burned consistently.

milkman
01-12-2005, 11:21 AM
It's all going to boil down to value. There might not be a DL or LB there at #15 that's worth a #15 pick.

I agree we should try to get a LB or DE in the 1st round, but not at the expense of passing up on a REAL talent.

If your contention is that we should not draft a CB or S in the 1st round, REGARDLESS of talent, I would suggest that the best move for the Chiefs would be to trade down into the mid-20's. There will be several d-linemen available late in the 1st...

This all boils down to priorities.

If we're drafting for a SB run, then do what is best for the team for the season.
If that involves trading dow, then so be it.

If we're drafting with an eye for the future, then take the best available athlete, regardless of position.

chiefsfolife
01-12-2005, 11:25 AM
then maybe we shouldnt use the corner position...just cause its hard doesnt mean u give up