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shaneo69
01-11-2005, 08:58 PM
Here’s how the Chiefs look now and how they need to look next season:

ROSTER

The Chiefs finished the season with 16 players on the active roster who will be 30 or older at the start of next season. For a team that started last season hoping to make a Super Bowl run, a veteran-dominated roster made sense. But a team that needs to improve dramatically needs players who can improve dramatically, and up-and-coming players best fill that bill.

The Chiefs won’t be dramatically but veterans who didn’t contribute much in 2004 likely will be gone. Veteran offensive stars like quarterback Trent Green and linemen Will Shields and Willie Roaf aren’t going to crumble overnight because of old age.

And it’s not as if the Chiefs are without young talent. Running back Larry Johnson and defensive end Jared Allen had big seasons. The Chiefs also saw some good things from wide receiver Samie Parker, tackle Jordan Black, linebacker, Kawika Mitchell and defensive backs Willie Pile and Benny Sapp. Promising tight end Kris Wilson, whose rookie season was ruined by injury, will finally get a chance to show his stuff.

COACHING STAFF

With Dick Vermeil and nearly his entire staff coming back, continuity will not be a problem. Offensive coordinator Al Saunders continues to oversee the high-scoring attack he was expected to bring from St. Louis. Gunther Cunningham is a proven talent as a defensive coordinator, if you give him enough talent. Vermeil and president Carl Peterson overrated their defensive talent before last season but it’s hard to imagine them doing that again.

THE APPROACH

The Chiefs obviously need better balance. They ranked first in total offense and 31st in total defense. They scored a whopping 483 points and yielded a whopping 435. You don’t have to look beyond those numbers to understand why they had a losing record.

The Chiefs wound up hurting on defense because they figured Cunningham’s return plus the play of 2003 free agents Vonnie Holliday, Shawn Barber and Dexter McCleon would make a bad defense respectable. Instead, the defense got even worse and none of those three players made a good case for having a role in 2005.

The Chiefs need to set the bar higher for defensive improvement because it’s hard to hard to fix every leak. If they strive for excellence, they’ll do well to achieve respectability. If the Chiefs strive for respectability, as they did last year, they’ll wind up with much less.

WHAT COMES NEXT?

Making defense a priority in the draft and free agency is a no-brainer. Establishing priorities is a little trickier because no defensive area can be left alone.

The top priority is a right cornerback, opposite Eric Warfield. The Chiefs have given their own players enough of an audition to know that spot must be filled from outside.

The Chiefs need at least one, and preferably two, more linebackers. If Scott Fujita, on the strong side, is their third-best linebacker, they’re in good shape. If he’s their best, they’re in trouble. The Chiefs need a sure-tackling middle linebacker and a quick weak-side linebacker with coverage and pass-rushing skills.

There’s always the chance Mitchell could take a big step forward next year and Barber or Mike Maslowski could bounce back from injuries. But the Chiefs can’t afford to bank on any of that happening. Too much optimism burned them last year.

The Chiefs got a pleasant surprise when Allen developed into a big-time pass rusher. The addition of a strong, run-stopping tackle would also give the defense a boost.

Now here’s where the Chiefs’ picture gets cloudy. What do they make of the disappointing play of safeties Greg Wesley and Jerome Woods? This was supposed to be an area of strength and instead became iffy.

Can Wesley, just 27 next season, bounce back. Can Woods, who’ll be 32, show he hasn’t lost a step? And if the Chiefs’ determine they need help here, can they really afford to make changes given all their other defensive needs?

Offensively, the Chiefs could use a young wide receiver. Eddie Kennison, 32, and Johnnie Morton, 33, had good seasons but the Chiefs can’t count on Parker alone for young legs at the position. Dante Hall has young legs but they won’t be fresh enough for consistently good kick returns if he’s overused as a receiver.

The Chiefs’ needs are easy to identify, but much tougher to fill. How many they can fill will determine if the Chiefs are one of those teams we’re still watching next January.

BigChiefFan
01-11-2005, 11:28 PM
That's alot of holes to fill.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-11-2005, 11:46 PM
That's alot of holes to fill.

Yep, I agree.

I'm gonna be more simpler stating than Rand is. And I don't have to take up a whole page to tell you about the Chiefs and the 05 season, so I'll save everyone a bunch of time so you won't have to read the article... Ready? Here it goes...



We're f#cked, guys.


This team is SO one dimensional, they may have to trade some of their O talent for some D help. That's how far DV was on the offensive side of the ball, and not on the D. Usually with a head coach, it's a happy medium, but we TOTALLY abused the defense to get the O to where it is today. It's like they didn't even know you still play defense in football, that's how bad our D is. Pathetic. Now, some of that is due to ignoring that side of the ball, and some of it is poor FA acquistions/poor drafting, which could've been done better, but not a big emphasis, I think, was put on the D.

Carl and DV will be gone after this year, and they could possibly be leaving this team in a big shithole after 05 (hopefully I'm wrong).

Deberg_1990
01-11-2005, 11:54 PM
Now, some of that is due to ignoring that side of the ball, and some of it is poor FA acquistions/poor drafting, which could've been done better

Id say it was mostly this.

Here are a few names ill throw out there:

Ryan Sims
Eddie Freeman
Kawika Mitchell
Julian Battle
Vonnie Holliday
Shawn Barber

Its not like they havent tried to fix the defense....they just suck at it.

Sure-Oz
01-11-2005, 11:57 PM
I think adding a few good guys may help alot to make them an average d. The problem was this year's d didn't get turnovers worth shit and oh yeah didn't stop anyone either. PRevious year the TO's helped slow down the bleeding.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-12-2005, 12:10 AM
Its not like they havent tried to fix the defense....they just suck at it.

Oh they tried, but they didn't try hard enough, IMO. What they did in retaining their own players was one of the dumbest moves in pro sports history. No one ever does that after so many horrible seasons in a row, hell, even one season should be enough to tell you something isn't right.

I hope we aren't in too big of a hole after they leave at the end of this year.

Deberg_1990
01-12-2005, 12:48 AM
What they did in retaining their own players was one of the dumbest moves in pro sports history. No one ever does that after so many horrible seasons in a row, hell, even one season should be enough to tell you something isn't right.



Very much agreed. I cant believe they never rebuilt this defense after the horrendous performance of 2002. Someone like Bill Bellicheck would have never stood pat. But I guess thats why he has won 2 of the last 3 Super Bowls.

Ari Chi3fs
01-12-2005, 12:48 AM
That's alot of holes to fill.

yeah. Kinda like a room full of pornstars.

chiefsfolife
01-12-2005, 01:15 AM
all they need is maybee one corner and linebacker, should be enough for the offense to take over ever game

J Diddy
01-12-2005, 01:22 AM
all they need is maybee one corner and linebacker, should be enough for the offense to take over ever game

That's what they said after robinson left.

Here's my idea:

hicks-bye
sims-one more year then bye
holliday bye

with the exception of fujita, no starting lb needs to keep his job

Bartee bye
mccleon bye
battle bye
woods bye


I would replace 1 maybe 2 dl,2 lb and 3 dbs.
If nothing else that would light a fire under the other half of the teams ass.

chiefsfolife
01-12-2005, 01:23 AM
yea but they never did it

Deberg_1990
01-12-2005, 01:25 AM
That's what they said after robinson left.

Here's my idea:

hicks-bye
sims-one more year then bye
holliday bye

with the exception of fujita, no starting lb needs to keep his job

Bartee bye
mccleon bye
battle bye
woods bye


I would replace 1 maybe 2 dl,2 lb and 3 dbs.
If nothing else that would light a fire under the other half of the teams ass.

EXACTLY!!!

Problem is, i seriously doubt Carl and DV would have the balls to do it.

J Diddy
01-12-2005, 01:31 AM
EXACTLY!!!

Problem is, i seriously doubt Carl and DV would have the balls to do it.

I say right now that if robinson hadn't volunteered to leave he would still be coaching the defense.

I just can't understand how they talked gun into this shit.

"Hey gun, I know I fired you via the internet last time and totally stuck my sneaky little knife up your ass to hire my old buddy who I had to beg to come out of retirement. But how would you like to come back so I can give you some shitty players and everyone can blame you when the offense is lighting up the scoreboard and the d can't stop anyone more than 2 times a game. Oh sounds good." As Peterson cackles slightly, and fondles himself at the notion of firing someone twice on the internet.

chiefsfolife
01-12-2005, 01:45 AM
dunno guess he likes a challenge...who would have guessed that

tk13
01-12-2005, 01:56 AM
Yep, I agree.

I'm gonna be more simpler stating than Rand is. And I don't have to take up a whole page to tell you about the Chiefs and the 05 season, so I'll save everyone a bunch of time so you won't have to read the article... Ready? Here it goes...



We're f#cked, guys.


This team is SO one dimensional, they may have to trade some of their O talent for some D help. That's how far DV was on the offensive side of the ball, and not on the D. Usually with a head coach, it's a happy medium, but we TOTALLY abused the defense to get the O to where it is today. It's like they didn't even know you still play defense in football, that's how bad our D is. Pathetic. Now, some of that is due to ignoring that side of the ball, and some of it is poor FA acquistions/poor drafting, which could've been done better, but not a big emphasis, I think, was put on the D.

Carl and DV will be gone after this year, and they could possibly be leaving this team in a big shithole after 05 (hopefully I'm wrong).
Eh, it can be done in one offseason, but a big part of that has to be Carl doing well in the draft this year. Doesn't mean we will, but we can. I look at this Jets team in the playoffs and they retooled a large chunk of their defense before this season.

DE - Didn't do anything major, had Abraham and Ellis, two studs, which obviously helps.

DT - Got much-improved play from 2003 1st rounder DT Dwayne Robertson... who had struggled during his rookie season, helped solidify the line to go along with Jason Ferguson.

OLB - Signed Eric Barton from the Raiders to start at one spot, the other spot was split between 2003 2nd rounder Victor Hobson and undrafted rookie Mark Brown.

ILB - Jonathan Vilma, obviously... 2004 1st rounder (12th overall), NFL defensive rookie of the year.

CB - Already had vet Donnie Abraham, added 26-year old David Barrett from Arizona, signed vet Terrell Buckley after he was cut by the Pats in training camp, and 2004 3rd round pick Derrick Strait to form a group of 4 solid corners.

S - Two new starters here, signing FA safety Reggie Tongue, and 2004 5th round draft pick Erik Coleman stepped up and took the other starting spot.

They also changed defensive coordinators, bringing in Donnie Henderson (secondary coach from the Ravens). They also originally intended to sign Antoine Winfield, who was a big name FA, but he backed out of a big contract to take an even bigger one with Minnesota, so this is what their offseason looked like. This Jets defense above finished 4th in the league in scoring and allowed one less point than the Patriots.

New veterans:
LB Eric Barton
CB David Barrett
CB Terrell Buckley
S Reggie Tongue

Draft picks who stepped up/in:
2003 1st Rd DT Dwayne Robertson
2003 2nd Rd LB Victor Hobson
2004 1st Rd LB Jonathan Vilma
2004 3rd Rd CB Derrick Strait
2004 5th Rd S Erik Coleman
2004 Undrafted LB Mark Brown

That's 10 guys signed as FA's this last offseason or drafted in the last two years stepping in and playing a big role, solely on defense. Of course a lot of that depends on drafting well, and the Jets usually do a pretty good job obviously. Smart FA moves, a good draft with some immediate impact players, and the further maturation of 2003 picks like Siavii and Allen could help turn the D around. It would take quite a miracle to be a top 5 defense, but being a good quality defense is not out of reach. It is possible.

Ari Chi3fs
01-12-2005, 02:27 AM
wow. I like the Jets now.

Deberg_1990
01-12-2005, 02:30 AM
wow. I like the Jets now.

Obviously we lost a good talent evaulator in Terry Bradway.

jAZ
01-12-2005, 02:50 AM
The Chiefs also saw some good things from ... linebacker, Kawika Mitchell
They did?

Wallcrawler
01-12-2005, 03:56 AM
The Chiefs front office just needs to bite the bullet and perform a massive housecleaning. These guys here, ABSOLUTELY have to go.


Johnnie Morton has never played up to the contract that he was given. The guy is making damn near the yearly salary that Tony Gonzalez is making. Tony G- 102 catches, 1200+ yards. Johnnie Morton, 55 catches and a load of plays that he just flat ass blew or quit on. Morton is washed up, and needs to go.


Eric Hicks had ONE decent season waay back before Gun was let go, he had 14 sacks in 13 games, and he hasnt done jack since then. Looks like he was a one year wonder, and its time for someone else to get a shot at it. Jared allen came in and in his first season, not even playing every game blew away everyone else on the team in terms of sacks. Hicks didnt even come close.


William Bartee- Heh. No explanation needed.


Jerome Woods. 32 years old, obviously lost a step and plagued by injuries of late. Its time for Jerome Woods to go, and bring in someone who can shore up the free safety position. I like Woods, I think he has a lot of heart and character, but he doesnt have the skill anymore.


Ryan Sims- Holy God what a bust. 15 tackles on the entire season. Get rid of this lazy bastard and give someone else a shot. They certainly couldnt do any worse than ALMOST a one tackle per game average.


Kawika Mitchell- Ive never seen anyone get blocked more than this guy. Its like he seeks out someone to block him, and makes a beeline toward him to take himself out of the play. Get lost Mitchell.

Vonnie Holliday- Huge Contract, very little payoff on the field. His huge roster bonus due this year is reason enough to cut him loose. Jared Allen took his job from him, and never looked back.

Mike Maslowski- Never was the fastest, and now the bum knee. He's not getting any younger. As with woods, I love the guy, but he just doesnt have what it takes to get this defense to the next level.


There are others who could probably get the axe and I wouldnt mind, but all of the above really need to be let go.

Gaz
01-12-2005, 06:49 AM
Vermeil [and Peterson?] will be gone in 2006. Time enough then for a “massive housecleaning." This off-season should [and most certainly will] be about upgrading the Defense in a hurry.

In free agency, we need a starting CB & MLB. This will NOT be cheap.
In the draft, we need OLB & DE.

Gone are:
Battle
Bartee
Woods
Maslowski [sorry, man]
Holliday
Morton
Blaylock [because someone is going to give him some money]

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes to see some D next season.

NewChief
01-12-2005, 07:34 AM
Secondary:

Of course we have to get a new corner. That's a given. As for our weakness at safety, I wonder if those problems might be fixed with a new secondary coach. Guinta sucks.

Of course, we've seen what kind of panacea a mere coaching change is without the personnel changes to reinforce it. That being said, I'm not sure that new personnel with the same old position coach will help either.

Chief Faithful
01-12-2005, 07:57 AM
CP, fix the secondary!

I would like to see a real MLB also, but fix the secondary.

Another DE would make a positive difference, but fix the secondary.

Morton needs to be replaced, BUT FIX THE SECONDARY!!!

milkman
01-12-2005, 08:16 AM
CP, fix the secondary!

I would like to see a real MLB also, but fix the secondary.

Another DE would make a positive difference, but fix the secondary.

Morton needs to be replaced, BUT FIX THE SECONDARY!!!

Yeah, he does need to fix the secondary, hopefully with a good FA, but there isn't an area on the D that doesn't need fixing.

LBs are bad to average.
We need 2 new starters, at the least.

DL is average, at best.
We need better production up the middle, and a new starter to replace Hicks.

FIX THE D.

RedNeckRaider
01-12-2005, 08:26 AM
I think like many others the way to fix a defense is the front 7. With the way the NFL is handcuffing the DBs there is no reason to waste huge dollars at those positions. Generate a pass rush, pressure the QB into making a mistake or get the sack. It will only get worse for DBs in the future as the NFL wants NBA type scores.

Tuckdaddy
01-12-2005, 08:30 AM
It's not possible to fix all of it in one season. We could sign a CB, MLB and DE/pass rusher in one off season. Hit the draft for duture stars all on defense in ther first 3 rounds.

I would go DE, CB, OLB with the first 3 picks but maybe not in that order.

Gaz
01-12-2005, 08:47 AM
SECONDARY:
We need a CB. A good, solid starter. Forget this “shutdown corner” crap. He does not exist. Champ Bailey was kind enough to provide clear, lucid [and funny] illustrations of that this season. The term “shutdown corner” is false in the modern NFL. Still, our CBs are SO bad that we need an upgrade, even in the modern NFL. CB in FA. I would also consider drafting a young CB in the 2nd or 3rd Round [only if there is not a spongeworthy DE & OLB].

Woods appears to be done. Time for a young gun to take over. Bring on Harts. No FA or draft action at Safety.

DL:
We have not had sustained interior pressure from our DL. That is a serious problem. However, with draft picks invested in Sims and Siavii, we simply cannot afford to spend more money at that position. No draft or FA action at DT.

I do not believe that Hicks will be cut [despite angry yapping from the mob], but I would like to see the potential for an upgrade. To that end, I would like to see a DE in the draft. DE is a position that can come in and contribute immediately. Sure, he will share time with Hicks and Allen, but will have a chance to seize a starting role. DE or OLB is where I would spend my 1st Rounder.

LB:
Despite the anguished howls for the mythical “shutdown corner,” here is the real weakness in the Chiefs Defense. Fujita appeared lost on several occasions. Mitchell appeared lost on most occasions. We need a starting MLB & OLB. There are no worthy MLBs in the draft, so OLB is the draft option. We will have to get our starting MLB in FA.

OFFENSE:
We can draft some OL replacements in the last half of the draft. That is it for you Offense Homers. No draft for you!!!

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees this as doable [since it is “do or die” time for Vermeil].

Gaz
01-12-2005, 08:48 AM
I think like many others the way to fix a defense is the front 7. With the way the NFL is handcuffing the DBs there is no reason to waste huge dollars at those positions. Generate a pass rush, pressure the QB into making a mistake or get the sack. It will only get worse for DBs in the future as the NFL wants NBA type scores.

Yep.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders when the NFL will just outlaw CBs altogether.

Lzen
01-12-2005, 08:54 AM
That's what they said after robinson left.

Here's my idea:

hicks-bye
sims-one more year then bye
holliday bye

with the exception of fujita, no starting lb needs to keep his job

Bartee bye
mccleon bye
battle bye
woods bye


I would replace 1 maybe 2 dl,2 lb and 3 dbs.
If nothing else that would light a fire under the other half of the teams ass.

That's pretty good. Although, I think Hicks would make a very good backup. Not sure what is his salary so that could also play into it. Sims may improve with some more talent in that front 7 but who knows. And Mitchell may get a lot better. Remember, Gun said it took Tennessee's linebackers 2 or 3 years to get good in that system. However, I wouldn't be against bringing someone in (either via draft or FA) to challenge for the MLB position.

NewChief
01-12-2005, 08:55 AM
Yep.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders when the NFL will just outlaw CBs altogether.


I'm a complete offensive homer, but I've got to agree that it's getting ridiculous. I couldn't believe how many game-changing pass interference and defensive holding calls were made in the playoff games this first week. It was disgusting. Not to mention that many of the calls were completely arbitrary.

I'm beginning to agree with that Hunter S. Thompson article that was written after the Chiefs vs. Tenn. game where he talked about their being three teams on the field: the Chiefs, the Titans, and the Zebras.

DaKCMan AP
01-12-2005, 09:15 AM
There are no worthy MLBs in the draft, so OLB is the draft option. We will have to get our starting MLB in FA.




I agree with almost everything you said, but not this. Channing Crowder is definately a worthy MLB in the draft who can come in and start immediately.

Gaz
01-12-2005, 09:27 AM
I agree with almost everything you said, but not this. Channing Crowder is definately a worthy MLB in the draft who can come in and start immediately.

He is a sophomore with busted up knees.

Not spongeworthy.

xoxo~
Gaz
Had enough bum knees with Maslowski.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:04 AM
I say right now that if robinson hadn't volunteered to leave he would still be coaching the defense.

I just can't understand how they talked gun into this shit.

"Hey gun, I know I fired you via the internet last time and totally stuck my sneaky little knife up your ass to hire my old buddy who I had to beg to come out of retirement. But how would you like to come back so I can give you some shitty players and everyone can blame you when the offense is lighting up the scoreboard and the d can't stop anyone more than 2 times a game. Oh sounds good." As Peterson cackles slightly, and fondles himself at the notion of firing someone twice on the internet.

They didn't talk gun into anything.

His EGO jumped at the chance to take this job.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:07 AM
Kawika Mitchell- Ive never seen anyone get blocked more than this guy. Its like he seeks out someone to block him, and makes a beeline toward him to take himself out of the play. Get lost Mitchell.

Ahem. Mitchell misdiagnoses and overruns plays. That is HIS fault.

Getting blocked as much as he does is the DEFENSIVE LINE'S FAULT.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:08 AM
SECONDARY:
We need a CB. A good, solid starter. Forget this “shutdown corner” crap. He does not exist. Champ Bailey was kind enough to provide clear, lucid [and funny] illustrations of that this season. The term “shutdown corner” is false in the modern NFL. Still, our CBs are SO bad that we need an upgrade, even in the modern NFL. CB in FA. I would also consider drafting a young CB in the 2nd or 3rd Round [only if there is not a spongeworthy DE & OLB].

Woods appears to be done. Time for a young gun to take over. Bring on Harts. No FA or draft action at Safety.

DL:
We have not had sustained interior pressure from our DL. That is a serious problem. However, with draft picks invested in Sims and Siavii, we simply cannot afford to spend more money at that position. No draft or FA action at DT.

I do not believe that Hicks will be cut [despite angry yapping from the mob], but I would like to see the potential for an upgrade. To that end, I would like to see a DE in the draft. DE is a position that can come in and contribute immediately. Sure, he will share time with Hicks and Allen, but will have a chance to seize a starting role. DE or OLB is where I would spend my 1st Rounder.

LB:
Despite the anguished howls for the mythical “shutdown corner,” here is the real weakness in the Chiefs Defense. Fujita appeared lost on several occasions. Mitchell appeared lost on most occasions. We need a starting MLB & OLB. There are no worthy MLBs in the draft, so OLB is the draft option. We will have to get our starting MLB in FA.

OFFENSE:
We can draft some OL replacements in the last half of the draft. That is it for you Offense Homers. No draft for you!!!

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees this as doable [since it is “do or die” time for Vermeil].


Sounds almost exactly like what I would do.

Chief Faithful
01-12-2005, 10:09 AM
Yeah, he does need to fix the secondary, hopefully with a good FA, but there isn't an area on the D that doesn't need fixing.

LBs are bad to average.
We need 2 new starters, at the least.

DL is average, at best.
We need better production up the middle, and a new starter to replace Hicks.

FIX THE D.

I agree, but if our secondary could cover just a little longer / better the team sack count would have been much higher. Plus, the run defense did significantly improve, which is another indication that the DLine did improve this year. I just believe there is good young talent on the DLine that will continue to get better. Thus, the area the team needs to improve the most is the secondary.

With that said, LB is almost as bad as the secondary. MLB was a glaring weakness that must be addressed, but if only one area gets addressed let it be the secondary.

CP, FIX THE SECONDARY!! :cuss:

milkman
01-12-2005, 10:21 AM
I agree, but if our secondary could cover just a little longer / better the team sack count would have been much higher. Plus, the run defense did significantly improve, which is another indication that the DLine did improve this year. I just believe there is good young talent on the DLine that will continue to get better. Thus, the area the team needs to improve the most is the secondary.

With that said, LB is almost as bad as the secondary. MLB was a glaring weakness that must be addressed, but if only one area gets addressed let it be the secondary.

CP, FIX THE SECONDARY!! :cuss:

I tend to think that the reason run D appeared improved is because our pass D was so horrid.
Fix the front 7, with a better pass rush, and LBs that can run, shed blocks, and tackle, and that will go a long way to improving our D.

If we fix the secondary, but don't address the issues in the front 7, then our pass D might improve marginally, at best.

If we fix the front 7, and just sign 1 solid FA corner, then our D has a chance to improve dramatically.

JMO.

Gaz
01-12-2005, 10:26 AM
You need to stop obsessing on the secondary. The modern NFL handcuffs CBs [see the aforementioned Champ Bailey for corroborating documentation]. We must disrupt the passing game before the QB throws the ball.

Fix the Defense. Upgrade the secondary, yes, but focus on the root problems:
1. Lousy LB corps
2. No interior pressure from the DTs.

Given the current rules, you will not dramatically improve your Defense by throwing money at a CB who will be unable to do anything without drawing a flag [heh, Champ Bailey again].

xoxo~
Gaz
Waiting for some football fans to join the 21st century.

siberian khatru
01-12-2005, 10:29 AM
[font=Garamond][size=4]
You need to stop obsessing on the secondary. The modern NFL handcuffs CBs [see the aforementioned Champ Bailey for corroborating documentation]. We must disrupt the passing game before the QB throws the ball.

Fix the Defense. Upgrade the secondary, yes, but focus on the root problems:
1. Lousy LB corps
2. No interior pressure from the DTs.

Given the current rules, you will not dramatically improve your Defense by throwing money at a CB who will be unable to do anything without drawing a flag [heh, Champ Bailey again].


I agree totally.

As Bill Walsh once said, the most important thing in the NFL is to have a pass rush in the last two minutes of a game. That may be overstating it a bit, but considering how many games are close and how rules favor passing offenses and receivers, breaking the pencil-neck is vitally important.

Count Alex's Losses
01-12-2005, 10:32 AM
I agree totally.

As Bill Walsh once said, the most important thing in the NFL is to have a pass rush in the last two minutes of a game. That may be overstating it a bit, but considering how many games are close and how rules favor passing offenses and receivers, breaking the pencil-neck is vitally important.

That's why Bill Walsh was a great head coach. Everyone remembers the Niners for their amazing offense but they had studs on the D side of the ball too. Walsh > Vermeil.

Baby Lee
01-12-2005, 10:38 AM
Not spongeworthy.
That has to be the most disgusting term for talent evaluation I've seen, evar!!

ROFL ROFL

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:38 AM
You need to stop obsessing on the secondary. The modern NFL handcuffs CBs [see the aforementioned Champ Bailey for corroborating documentation]. We must disrupt the passing game before the QB throws the ball.

Fix the Defense. Upgrade the secondary, yes, but focus on the root problems:
1. Lousy LB corps
2. No interior pressure from the DTs.

Given the current rules, you will not dramatically improve your Defense by throwing money at a CB who will be unable to do anything without drawing a flag [heh, Champ Bailey again].

xoxo~
Gaz
Waiting for some football fans to join the 21st century.


Lazarus is going to be giga-pissed when he reads this one...

Chiefnj
01-12-2005, 10:40 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs brought in the following free agent LB's:

1. Tommy Polley for outside LB. Pretty quick, decent hands, can play all three downs.

2. Rocky Calmus for MLB. Knows Gunther and was starting to be a productive MLB before injury setbacks.

BigChiefFan
01-12-2005, 10:40 AM
Vermeil [and Peterson?] will be gone in 2006. Time enough then for a “massive housecleaning." This off-season should [and most certainly will] be about upgrading the Defense in a hurry.

In free agency, we need a starting CB & MLB. This will NOT be cheap.
In the draft, we need OLB & DE.

Gone are:
Battle
Bartee
Woods
Maslowski [sorry, man]
Holliday
Morton
Blaylock [because someone is going to give him some money]

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes to see some D next season.

I like your list, but I would also add a DRAFTED CB as well. We need to replace 2 or 3 corners. I would also like to see Carl go after MLB Kendrell Bell and CB Gary Baxter in FA. That would help us with the draft. We could take BAA on defense, because we have needs on all 3 phases. Picking at 15, we should be able to land either a quality DE, LBer, or CB. All three of which I think should be given strong consideration depending on who is available. Having said that, Carl must LAND some quality FAs to define our draft needs and can't take the same lacksidasical approach as last year to even have a shot of going all the way.

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:41 AM
I hope we stay away from Kendrell Bell. ChiefNJ's scenario looks more realistic, IMO.

Chiefnj
01-12-2005, 10:42 AM
I hope we stay away from Kendrell Bell. ChiefNJ's scenario looks more realistic, IMO.

It's not my ideal/dream free agent acquisition list, but I think the Chiefs might go that way. Polley, IMO, would probably be a good value pickup.

Chief Faithful
01-12-2005, 10:44 AM
You need to stop obsessing on the secondary. The modern NFL handcuffs CBs [see the aforementioned Champ Bailey for corroborating documentation]. We must disrupt the passing game before the QB throws the ball.

Fix the Defense. Upgrade the secondary, yes, but focus on the root problems:
1. Lousy LB corps
2. No interior pressure from the DTs.

Given the current rules, you will not dramatically improve your Defense by throwing money at a CB who will be unable to do anything without drawing a flag [heh, Champ Bailey again].

xoxo~
Gaz
Waiting for some football fans to join the 21st century.


I understand what you are saying and agree that MLB is critical. But, the talent is soooo lacking at CB it has to be addressed. With that said, I would not be disappointed to see MLB or DE as the first draft pick. If a Safety or OLB is the first pick over a CB I will be disappointed.

Please understand my reasoning, the secondary is not just bad it is legendary bad, mythical bad, bad like never seen in the history of man kind bad, bad at Biblical porportions. Even with the new rules the secondary must be over-hauled.

There is no hope for improvement with the current secondary (only exception Warfield and Wesley). Sapp looked great in the Chiefs secondary this year and he is terrible. How did it ever get so bad that a half talent hack like Sapp can look like a great promise for the future? You keep pointing to Champ Bailey as an example of how even good CB's are bad under current rules, but if the Chiefs had Bailey's performance instead of McCleon or Barftee they would have won at least 3 more games and been in the playoffs.

I would appreciate a good MLB and another DE, BUT FIX THE SECONDARY!! :mad:

BigChiefFan
01-12-2005, 10:46 AM
I hope we stay away from Kendrell Bell. ChiefNJ's scenario looks more realistic, IMO.
How is signing an OLBer going to help the MLBer position? Don't get me wrong, I like Polley, but I doubt the Rams let him walk and alot of what I've read or heard has Bell becoming a FA. BTW, Bell is a pretty damn good player, he's alot better than Mitchell has shown up to this point. Bell has had some injuries, but so has Mitchell and Maslowski. BTW, why don't you like Bell?

Mr. Laz
01-12-2005, 10:49 AM
Lazarus is going to be giga-pissed when he reads this one...

i had to count to 10 more than once :)



no reply from me either ... if i get started, i will just get pissed off again

Chiefnj
01-12-2005, 10:50 AM
I understand what you are saying and agree that MLB is critical. But, the talent is soooo lacking at CB it has to be addressed.

I think everyone is in agreement that it needs to be fixed. I think, or at least in my opinion, it doesn't make sense in today's NFL to spend 10 million on a CB because of the league's infatuation with scoring. If you can't touch, sniff, sneeze or look at a WR after 5 yards and the receiver can get away with major pushoffs then a 2 million dollar corner is almost as effective as a 9 million dollar corner. The current rules minimize the impact a corner has on the game. Since that's the case, spend the money on positions that can impact the game without drawing a flag - DE and MLB.

Oxford
01-12-2005, 10:51 AM
It's apparent that if you have a good CB and an average CB starting, then nothing after that you are dead in the NFL today. So you get 3rd and 4 (a passing down), bring in your 3rd corner (who can't cover a thing) and bingo -- first and ten.

We need cannot have the black hole CB corp (Bartee and McCleon) as the 2nd and 3rd CB's next year. What would help the CB's is better pressure and better LB play.

I would like to see CP/DV/GC hire a personal coach for the CB's they draft this year to get them acclimated to the NFL. Because they are going to play alot.

Chief Faithful
01-12-2005, 10:51 AM
I like your list, but I would also add a DRAFTED CB as well. We need to replace 2 or 3 corners.

If the Chiefs keep 5 CB's again then 3 must go. Warfield can do the job and Sapp can tackle. McCleon and Barftee must go. I would prefer to see the group swept clean and start over with Warfield and 4 new guys.

BTW - Guinta must go and CP FIX THE SECONDARY!! :cuss:

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 10:51 AM
How is signing an OLBer going to help the MLBer position? Don't get me wrong, I like Polley, but I doubt the Rams let him walk and alot of what I've read or heard has Bell becoming a FA. BTW, Bell is a pretty damn good player, he's alot better than Mitchell has shown up to this point. Bell has had some injuries, but so has Mitchell and Maslowski. BTW, why don't you like Bell?

Maybe you missed where he said Polley AND Calmus?

NewChief
01-12-2005, 10:53 AM
I would like to see CP/DV/GC hire a personal coach for the CB's they draft this year to get them acclimated to the NFL. Because they are going to play alot.

But we already have Guinta! :banghead:

BigChiefFan
01-12-2005, 10:57 AM
Maybe you missed where he said Polley AND Calmus?No, still waiting to hear why you don't want Bell? Surely you aren't going to say because of injuries and then back Calmus are you?

htismaqe
01-12-2005, 11:08 AM
No, still waiting to hear why you don't want Bell? Surely you aren't going to say because of injuries and then back Calmus are you?

Injuries.

But it's not quite that simple.

Both of them have had injuries, yes. But only one of them is going to be WORTH their money.

The reason I don't want Bell is because I'll think he'll command a salary that is way out of line for a guy like that. Calmus likely won't.

Gaz
01-12-2005, 11:40 AM
Lazarus is going to be giga-pissed when he reads this one...

Do you think we’ll be able to tell the difference?

xoxo~
Gaz
Suspects lazarus was born giga-pissed.

Gaz
01-12-2005, 11:51 AM
I agree that we need a FA CB. Even in the "no pass D" NFL, our CBs are way below average.

However, I see no value in paying Champ Bailey money [heh…Shanahan…heh] for somebody who cannot DO anything. I want a FA CB who is an upgrade over Bartee/McCleon, but do not spend megabucks on the best of the best. The huge increase in cost is not proportional to the incremental increase in coverage.

At top-tier MLB would improve our Defense far more than a top-tier CB [if there is such a thing in the pass-happy modern NFL]. More bang for the buck.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not want to go into next season with Warfield, Bartee & McCleon.

Chief Faithful
01-12-2005, 12:01 PM
I agree that we need a FA CB. Even in the "no pass D" NFL, our CBs are way below average.

However, I see no value in paying Champ Bailey money [heh…Shanahan…heh] for somebody who cannot DO anything. I want a FA CB who is an upgrade over Bartee/McCleon, but do not spend megabucks on the best of the best. The huge increase in cost is not proportional to the incremental increase in coverage.

At top-tier MLB would improve our Defense far more than a top-tier CB [if there is such a thing in the pass-happy modern NFL]. More bang for the buck.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not want to go into next season with Warfield, Bartee & McCleon.


I see the need for a top tier MLB, CB, 2 additional good hard hitting CB, and another young DE. I believe DT is in good shape if Saivii can come close to his potential.

Champ would have made a much bigger impact for the KC defense than he did for Denver's, but I agree he is over paid. CB is simply the worst position on the KC defense (worst in the NFL) followed close by MLB. I believe Champ in KC would have resulted in 3 more wins and a playoff birth.

shaneo69
01-12-2005, 12:18 PM
Calmus has only played 3 years in the league----he's not unrestricted. So that issue is moot.

shaneo69
01-12-2005, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs brought in the following free agent LB's:

1. Tommy Polley for outside LB. Pretty quick, decent hands, can play all three downs.

Polley has not been a good player for the Rams. He's been benched off and on during the past 4 years for inconsistent play. The Rams run defense has been as bad as ours, and he's one of the reasons for it. He actually got beat out by 4th round pick Brandon Chillar at the beginning of this season but became the starter again when Chillar got hurt. Pisa Tinoisamoa is by far their best LB.

Brock
01-12-2005, 12:27 PM
Polley has not been a good player for the Rams. He's been benched off and on during the past 4 years for inconsistent play. The Rams run defense has been as bad as ours, and he's one of the reasons for it. He actually got beat out by 4th round pick Brandon Chillar at the beginning of this season but became the starter again when Chillar got hurt. Pisa Tinoisamoa is by far their best LB.

All true. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him brought in.

Chiefnj
01-12-2005, 12:33 PM
Calmus has only played 3 years in the league----he's not unrestricted. So that issue is moot.

You're right he's a RFA.

chiefscafan
01-12-2005, 02:42 PM
ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY GUYS



GIVE GUN TIME HE'LL TURN THE D AROUND

ct
01-12-2005, 04:45 PM
...
I'm beginning to agree with that Hunter S. Thompson article that was written after the Chiefs vs. Tenn. game where he talked about their being three teams on the field: the Chiefs, the Titans, and the Zebras.

It is along this theory that I see Indy goin all the way this year. It's not the Colts who will beat the Pats this weekend, it'll be the gold hanky-happy stooges in stripes. This rematch is precisely why this new emphasis on the 5-yard chuck rule has come about.

Oh and on the Defense, you've got to start on the opposite side of the ball, the opponent's backfield. Clog the running lanes, blow up the blockers, force the RB off his line of attack, crush the QB, else make him squirm!

The DT position with Sims, Siavi(sp?), Dalton, Browning will not get any attention this off-season, unless it's to resign Dalton. Our DE needs some more talent, with potential to unseat Hicks or maybe even push Allen back to a rotation role(this ain't my choice, I just see Allen getting pushed aside before Gun pushes aside Hicks). Draft a DE round 1/2, someone with skills/smarts to challenge the starters right away.

The LB corp needs a major overhaul, but the best we'll get I think is 2 guys. A MLB is an absolute must! Maz cannot be relied on, and Mitchell just flat doesn't get it. This is a HUGE need immediately, and I'm not willing to rely on CP's 1st round selection to pan out here. There will be some good options in FA, i.e. Bell, Calmus, maybe even Zach Thomas. Draft an OLB in Round 2/1, someone with pass rush skills and mad speed sideline to sideline!! Fujita will probably have to stay in the starting lineup, but perhaps Biesal/Fox could challenge there.

I'm not conviced that Woods is done, and will be just fine with Woods and Wesley returning as starters, with Harts and Pile to fill in, or Harts to take over if I'm wrong with Jerome.

Warfield has developed nicely, but we do have his suspension to consider here. The other CB spot needs a replacement, but takes a back seat to MLB, DE, and above OLB in my opinion. Find a decent FA, maybe Ty Law might sign a friendly contract, or Baxter has already been mentioned. Draft a CB late Day1 or early Day2, a TRUE CB, no more conversions please!!!