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View Full Version : Is Sims really a bust or just getting his azz kicked by double teams?


Tuckdaddy
01-13-2005, 10:22 AM
We have no one on the edge right now that demands attention so Sims does get doubled alot. Junior, in the few games he did play, took pressure off him and he performed better. Maybe we are treating him a little harsh.

Deberg_1990
01-13-2005, 10:27 AM
Hes not a bust, but at theis point a dissappointment. When he was coming out of college he was billed as a pass rusher, ala (Warren Sapp). Its apparant now that hes nothing like that at all. Right now hes basically a big body who can clog up the middle. He may be lazy and doesnt love the game but fortunately for him, he will always have a job because some NFL team is always looking for a wide body in the middle. If we had better edge rushers nobody would care much.

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 10:28 AM
Both.

For example, in the NYG preseason game when Whitlock went off, Sims WAS getting double-teamed quite often.

However, there were MANY MANY times when he wasn't double-teamed and managed to get pushed right out of the play.

I honestly think his problem is that he has no motivation. He's not a bust, he's a bum.

bricks
01-13-2005, 10:42 AM
I honestly think his problem is that he has no motivation. He's not a bust, he's a bum.



:hmmm: I'm trying to figure out how I can put your words into perspective?
Thinking of an example, that would be like me telling my co-worker, "oh you know your an ok worker, but, your just lazy. you simply don't have a feel for this job." Does people like him improve my working environment? No. Do I think he's a piece of sh*t? yes. Simply cause I don't want lazy people working for me, who simply don't have a passion for the job. Servicable sucks! Let's get some real people in here :thumb:

e_train69
01-13-2005, 10:44 AM
Bust!

Just because of what was expected when we drafted him and how high he was drafted. He is still serviceable, but far from what we had hoped for.

I believe he really benefitted from playing on the same line in college as Julius Peppers.

Chiefnj
01-13-2005, 10:46 AM
Bust.

You can draft a 4th rounder to do what he does and get the same production.

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 10:46 AM
:hmmm: I'm trying to figure out how I can put your words into perspective?
Thinking of an example, that would be like me telling my co-worker, "oh you know your an ok worker, but, your just lazy. you simply don't have a feel for this job." Does people like him improve my working environment? No. Do I think he's a piece of sh*t? yes. Simply cause I don't want lazy people working for me, who simply don't have a passion for the job. Servicable sucks! Let's get some real people in here :thumb:

Well, look at is this way.

Value = talent + desire

When desire is negative, overall value goes down, even if value is high. The reason Ryan Sims is "servicable" is not because he lacks physical talent, it's because he has motivation problems. If those motivation problems go away, he could be dominant.

For instance, I'm not exactly the most motivated person here at work. Hell, I spend most of my workday posting on the Planet. But I know shit that nobody else here does. And onn the days that I do get motivated, I can sell shit like nobody else here can. :D

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 10:48 AM
Bust!

Just because of what was expected when we drafted him and how high he was drafted. He is still serviceable, but far from what we had hoped for.

I believe he really benefitted from playing on the same line in college as Julius Peppers.

Julius Peppers said the opposite...

Soupnazi
01-13-2005, 10:48 AM
In my mind he'll be a bust until he learns the concept of getting off a block and making a tackle.

Watching him play is maddening-it's like he thinks his only purpose out there is to push the interior line back and then you're done.

Learning this and acting on it would improve his game significantly.

Rausch
01-13-2005, 10:52 AM
Julius Peppers said the opposite...

Then you look at their NFL careers and you can see that Peppers was trying to be polite...

Rausch
01-13-2005, 10:53 AM
Bust.

You can draft a 4th rounder to do what he does and get the same production.

YOu mean like Browning?...

Deberg_1990
01-13-2005, 10:54 AM
That draft, the 2002 draft was a huge failure for this organization. Sims and Freeman were the first 2 picks for us and both are failures or dissappointments. Those picks if successful should have both been huge contributors to our defense these past 2 years. One of the big reasons our D has sucked these past few years was that draft.

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 10:55 AM
Then you look at their NFL careers and you can see that Peppers was trying to be polite...

No, you look at their NFL careers and you can see that Peppers decided he needed to work for a living.

Both of them benefitted from each other in college. Watch some games if you get a chance, Sims was a FORCE. Then he signed with Englehard, got caught up in the Atlanta rap scene, and lost his desire to play football. He got his fat check and that was all she wrote.

Mr. Laz
01-13-2005, 10:56 AM
from what i've seen he's doubled less than 50%(much less) of the time, so i don't see how that's a big issue. I saw Browning and dalton get doubled a higher % of plays than Sims imo.



i think he's lazy



chester jr.

Deberg_1990
01-13-2005, 10:59 AM
Why would teams have to double him so much? So far hes shown close to zero pass rushing skillz??

Chief Henry
01-13-2005, 11:01 AM
That draft, the 2002 draft was a huge failure for this organization. Sims and Freeman were the first 2 picks for us and both are failures or dissappointments. Those picks if successful should have both been huge contributors to our defense these past 2 years. One of the big reasons our D has sucked these past few years was that draft.


Many of our drafts have been failures for this organization...

MOhillbilly
01-13-2005, 11:02 AM
gotta wait till they get some LBs who can play, makes a big diffrence.

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 11:04 AM
from what i've seen he's doubled less than 50%(much less) of the time, so i don't see how that's a big issue. I saw Browning and dalton get doubled a higher % of plays than Sims imo.

i think he's lazy

chester jr.

Yep.

Dalton looks so good because he tries. He doesn't have half the physical ability of Sims, but he puts forth the effort to make up for it.

Sims is the worst kind of player. Some guys, like Bartee, have no talent. Sims just doesn't try.

Chiefnj
01-13-2005, 11:08 AM
Yep.

Dalton looks so good because he tries. He doesn't have half the physical ability of Sims, but he puts forth the effort to make up for it.

Sims is the worst kind of player. Some guys, like Bartee, have no talent. Sims just doesn't try.


Just you wait until his contract year, or when he gets cut by several teams like jellyroll did. Then you'll see some effort.

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 11:11 AM
Just you wait until his contract year, or when he gets cut by several teams like jellyroll did. Then you'll see some effort.

It'll have to be after he gets cut.

Because he signed like a 6-year deal with us. He won't make it to his contract year at this pace.

It just pisses me off. I defended this guy like no other and he can't even put forth the effort to finish a play.

the Talking Can
01-13-2005, 11:24 AM
Sims does not get doubled much...he can be handled by one player easy

royr17
01-13-2005, 11:40 AM
Sims is DEFINATELY a bust, hell he got manhandled by a rookie player this year, that is totally uncalled for and unacceptable .....

Wile_E_Coyote
01-13-2005, 11:51 AM
If Sims was DV's pick & LJ was Peterson's pick, does Saunders get credit for Wilson. Gun's turn, or was that Jr.?

PHOG
01-13-2005, 11:58 AM
Bust!

Just because of what was expected when we drafted him and how high he was drafted. He is still serviceable, but far from what we had hoped for.

I believe he really benefitted from playing on the same line in college as Julius Peppers.

Maybe if we drafted a pass rushing stud DE ( AND BENCH HICKS OR CUT HIM), he would start to play better. :thumb:

ck_IN
01-13-2005, 12:26 PM
Where did this myth that Sims gets doubled come from? He rarely gets doubled. You might see two guys on him for a moment when teams are doing slide blocking and passing him from one to the next but that's about it.

Is he a bust. Absolutely if you put it in context. He was drafted to be the cornerstone of our defense from which we'd build. He was the 4th (?) overall pick of that draft. In those terms he's a total failure. If he was drafted in the 4th or 5th round then I'd say he's doing fine. As it is on the occasions I've seen Jr. play Siavii is already head and shoulders better then Sims.

crossbow
01-13-2005, 12:30 PM
I was so mad on draft day when they passed up Henderson that my wife told me to chill out. She said: "You're scaring the neighbors". I thought Freeman was going to be pretty good, though. Oh well, the draft is a crap shoot and that one killed us.

Taco John
01-13-2005, 12:35 PM
Simms = Young McGlockton

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 12:36 PM
Sims = Young McGlockton

Yup.

Taco John
01-13-2005, 12:39 PM
That's the problem with drafting monster DTs...

ck_IN
01-13-2005, 12:40 PM
<i>Simms = Young McGlockton</i>

I wouldn't give Sims that much credit. As nuts as Glock made me with his offsides he at least did draw some doubleteams and freed Hicks up to kill the QB. The minute Glock left Hicks came back to earth. Sims can't even accomplish that much.

Count Zarth
01-13-2005, 12:40 PM
Sims doesn't try? What was all that BS about Gunther Cunningham saving his career, then? If he doesn't care enough to try, why does he care enough to tout his new defensive coordinator?

Mr. Kotter
01-13-2005, 12:42 PM
Simms = Young McGlockton

Except Chester actually had a couple of "good" years.....Pro-bowl even, IRC. :banghead:

Phobia
01-13-2005, 12:43 PM
Sims doesn't try? What was all that BS about Gunther Cunningham saving his career, then? If he doesn't care enough to try, why does he care enough to tout his new defensive coordinator?

He's following DV's lead and throwing a bunch of spin.

Taco John
01-13-2005, 12:46 PM
What was all that BS... about Gunther Cunningham saving his career, then? If he doesn't care enough to try, why does he care enough to tout his new defensive coordinator?


Seems you answered your own question while you were asking it...

Count Zarth
01-13-2005, 12:48 PM
I just dunno guys. I see a guy out there giving effort, he's not taking plays off. I can SEE it. Why does he bother to celebrate when the defense makes a big play?

I've seen guys take plays off on the D-line, it doesn't look like Sims is doing that to me.

royr17
01-13-2005, 12:50 PM
Anybody think that is Elbow injury could have really screwed his career over ????

ROYC75
01-13-2005, 12:50 PM
Bust ? Not yet.... He's a project that DV figured would produce his 1st year.

Maybe Gun can get him lined up ?

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 12:52 PM
Anybody think that is Elbow injury could have really screwed his career over ????

Doubt it.

He was knee deep in the scene with Englehard before he ever signed a contract with the Chiefs...

Mr. Kotter
01-13-2005, 12:52 PM
I just dunno guys. I see a guy out there giving effort, he's not taking plays off. I can SEE it. Why does he bother to celebrate when the defense makes a big play?

I've seen guys take plays off on the D-line, it doesn't look like Sims is doing that to me.

I suspect you are right about that. However, he has God given talent that is being wasted because he doesn't bust his azz like Priest does, or like Allen does. His "motor" runs--but he's idling, going through the motions. Someone with his talent, physical skills, AND Priest's motivation would have led the NFL in sacks for a DT last year. What did he have, four....five? :shake:

Mr. Kotter
01-13-2005, 12:54 PM
...He was knee deep in the scene with Englehard before he ever signed a contract with the Chiefs...

If he were to dedicate that energy to the Chiefs and the weight room, he'd be a Pro-Bowler IMO.

htismaqe
01-13-2005, 12:54 PM
I suspect you are right about that. However, he has God given talent that is being wasted because he doesn't bust his azz like Priest does, or like Allen does. His "motor" runs--but he's idling, going through the motions. Someone with his talent, physical skills, AND Priest's motivation would have led the NFL in sacks for a DT last year. What did he have, four....five? :shake:

TWO.

Perfect description, BTW...

Count Zarth
01-13-2005, 12:55 PM
I suspect you are right about that. However, he has God given talent that is being wasted because he doesn't bust his azz like Priest does, or like Allen does. His "motor" runs--but he's idling, going through the motions. Someone with his talent, physical skills, AND Priest's motivation would have led the NFL in sacks for a DT last year. What did he have, four....five? :shake:

2

Mr. Kotter
01-13-2005, 12:55 PM
2

See what I mean? :banghead:

gblowfish
01-13-2005, 01:13 PM
Sims was the 6th pick in the draft the year he was taken, highest pick the Chiefs have had since drafting DT in King Carl's first year.

They paid him a $7 mill signing bonus.

All the Chiefs 2004 player stats are here:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/KC/2004/regular

Sims played in 15 games. He had 13 tackles....13 in 15 games. He had 2 assisted tackles, 2 sacks, zero fumble recoveries. That's pathetic, even if you're double teamed you should be able to make at least one tackle a game.

Chiefs defensive lineman get fewer snaps than some other teams, because we rotate guys in and out. Even with that, 15 tackles is pathetic. And if you say he's being double teamed, that would free other players to make tackles. Fujita led the Chiefs in tackles, but wasn't in the top 50 players in the NFL in tackles. Our defense is just bad all over, and Sims is a big part of that.

crispystl420
01-13-2005, 01:23 PM
I think the reason he played so well in college was because julius peppers was right next to him. He benifited from that alot, Peppers is badazz.

Deberg_1990
01-13-2005, 01:26 PM
Sims was the 6th pick in the draft the year he was taken, highest pick the Chiefs have had since drafting DT in King Carl's first year.

They paid him a $7 mill signing bonus.

All the Chiefs 2004 player stats are here:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/KC/2004/regular

Sims played in 15 games. He had 13 tackles....13 in 15 games. He had 2 assisted tackles, 2 sacks, zero fumble recoveries. That's pathetic, even if you're double teamed you should be able to make at least one tackle a game.

Chiefs defensive lineman get fewer snaps than some other teams, because we rotate guys in and out. Even with that, 15 tackles is pathetic. And if you say he's being double teamed, that would free other players to make tackles. Fujita led the Chiefs in tackles, but wasn't in the top 50 players in the NFL in tackles. Our defense is just bad all over, and Sims is a big part of that.

Exactly. It appears that King Carl has had enough of this turd as well. Judgeing from that thread that was posted on here last week when he was interviewed by Petro.

crossbow
01-13-2005, 01:50 PM
Exactly. It appears that King Carl has had enough of this turd as well. Judgeing from that thread that was posted on here last week when he was interviewed by Petro.

Agreed 100% man. A 1st round/6th overall should be Niel Smith calibre at least. If not that good then at least as good as Joe Philips or Dan Saliumua.

Grunhard says his technigue is terrible otherwise he would dominate. Which means he isn't going to get any better because if he was working on it he would be improving from game to game but he is not.

tk13
01-13-2005, 02:02 PM
I don't know, I always thought Hicks was the guy who got his behind kicked by double teams in previous years moreso than Sims.... not that Hicks is all-world or didn't get beat one-on-one sometimes, but really before this year he was our best (and only) guy for getting QB pressure.

brent102fire
01-13-2005, 02:11 PM
I do think Sims could be a dominant player on the DL. He has the talent, he just needs to get his ass kicked into gear by Gunther. I'm not saying Gunther can perform magic, but he has a proven track record with developing Defensive players. I think Sims needs to be more consistent and really work hard this offseason to make himself a better player...maybe he should start hanging out with Jared Allen, Junior Siavii and Lional Dalton. :hmmm:

Mike Grose
01-13-2005, 02:15 PM
"maybe he should start hanging out with Jared Allen, Junior Siavii and Lional Dalton."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I want Junior around good influences. Put him around a workout animal like Waters or Shields. I don't want ANY bad influences near Siavii.

DTLB58
01-13-2005, 07:01 PM
Both.

For example, in the NYG preseason game when Whitlock went off, Sims WAS getting double-teamed quite often.

However, there were MANY MANY times when he wasn't double-teamed and managed to get pushed right out of the play.

I honestly think his problem is that he has no motivation. He's not a bust, he's a bum.

I get that same feeling watching him. And if Gun and all the critical media dosen't motivate him, what will?

Deberg_1990
01-13-2005, 07:09 PM
Grunhard says his technigue is terrible otherwise he would dominate. Which means he isn't going to get any better because if he was working on it he would be improving from game to game but he is not.

Exactly, thats the thing about him. I see actually zero improvement from him over 3 years time. Hes actually regressed if you look at his stats.

rocks
01-13-2005, 08:24 PM
BUST
I went to camp this past August and Sims stood around and acted like he had other things to do. Did not go through the drills with any heart. His Momma and Daddy looked more eager than he did. Just no gas in the tank.

nychief
01-13-2005, 09:25 PM
That was a tragic draft... ****ing Sims and Freeman?

kill me.... who would have thought that we would end up getting more out of Eric Downing during his time here.

CanadaKC
01-13-2005, 10:24 PM
I think Phobia said it best....."it's amazing how good Sims could look like he could play when he was playing at North Carolina beside Julius Peppers." In retrospect....Peppers must take a lot of the credit cause HE was double and sometimes triple teamed. He was that good (and now the NFL can see how good he is too). Alas...without Peppers...
Sims looks like a stiff.

Wallcrawler
01-14-2005, 12:37 AM
Ryan Sims is a bust.


A top ten defensive draft pick who cannot even muster up a ONE TACKLE PER GAME AVERAGE.


The guy is selfish, lazy, and basicly could really give a shit about improving his technique based on his performances since he's been here.

Some would fault the coaches for his lack of technique, but like they say, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

The guy could have the greatest coach in the world showing him what he needs to do, and it wouldnt make a damn bit of difference. He isnt interested in football, he's interested in stuffing his face with cheeseburgers and stealing a paycheck every week. His less than one tackle per game average is clear proof that he isnt putting forth any effort.

Christ, even I could line up in the NFL and tackle someone at least ONE TIME in each game I played, and Im not near the level of professional. If I were him, Id be absolutely ashamed.


The Chiefs need to kick this loser to the curb, and get another effort player like Lional Dalton in here who can pull their weight. Someone who actually gives a rats ass whether or not they win the game.

elvomito
01-14-2005, 01:39 AM
so then, we need to recreate the atmosphere he had in college? you mean we need a dominant pass rusher to play beside him?
so, having a good outside pass rush would make the players on the D better?

seems like it

Taco John
01-14-2005, 01:41 AM
When is the last time a rookie held out in training camp and went on to a great career? There's got to be at least one.

KC Jones
01-14-2005, 05:36 AM
Add another drop to the Bust bucket here.

In addition to being lazy he's also weak - as in lacks the upper body strength to play DT in the NFL. This is probably (big surprise) the result of him being too lazy to stick with the weight training regimen the Chiefs have him on.

KC Jones
01-14-2005, 05:37 AM
When is the last time a rookie held out in training camp and went on to a great career? There's got to be at least one.

Tony Gonzalez comes to mind. He was signed in mid training camp IIRC. Not sure if that counts for your criteria though.

Chief Faithful
01-14-2005, 05:58 AM
Yep.

Dalton looks so good because he tries. He doesn't have half the physical ability of Sims, but he puts forth the effort to make up for it.

Sims is the worst kind of player. Some guys, like Bartee, have no talent. Sims just doesn't try.

Dalton is a good example of why Sims still could live up to his potential. Jelly was a lazy underachiever until he was let go by two NFL teams. He then woke up motivated and showed what he can do this last year. Hopefully Jelly will not turn into a Dan Williams and maybe Sims will get serious and have a statement season next year. All I can do is hope because DT is the last position I want to see the Chiefs spend more money this off season.

CrazyHorse
01-14-2005, 07:15 AM
If he's not working to get better, and the coaches keep putting him in the game, then the coach is a bust not Simms. To be honest, if I could make the same money sitting on my ass as I could busting my ass, I would likely choose to sit.

Another variable to be considered, is that we have drafted about 50 D linemen since the Vermiel era, and none of them are really worth a shit. The only difference in Simms is his draft position.

I would expect defensive line coach to be one of the positions heavily scrutinized this off season. We had a decent season from our D line this year, but not good enough for the investment we have made there.

htismaqe
01-14-2005, 07:46 AM
I think Phobia said it best....."it's amazing how good Sims could look like he could play when he was playing at North Carolina beside Julius Peppers." In retrospect....Peppers must take a lot of the credit cause HE was double and sometimes triple teamed. He was that good (and now the NFL can see how good he is too). Alas...without Peppers...
Sims looks like a stiff.

Go back and watch the games.

Sims spent plenty of time at NC fending off double-teams, especially his senior year.

Sims is a KC Chiefs bust, but let's not be revising history...

htismaqe
01-14-2005, 07:48 AM
When is the last time a rookie held out in training camp and went on to a great career? There's got to be at least one.

LaDanian Tomlinson is the most recent example I can think of.

htismaqe
01-14-2005, 07:49 AM
Dalton is a good example of why Sims still could live up to his potential. Jelly was a lazy underachiever until he was let go by two NFL teams. He then woke up motivated and showed what he can do this last year. Hopefully Jelly will not turn into a Dan Williams and maybe Sims will get serious and have a statement season next year. All I can do is hope because DT is the last position I want to see the Chiefs spend more money this off season.

You have a point, but I am forced to point out the obvious negative:

Jelly doesn't play for the team that drafted him...

CanadaKC
01-14-2005, 09:28 AM
Sims spent plenty of time at NC fending off double-teams, especially his senior year. ...

you give Sims too much credit...and Peppers not enough

Mr. Kotter
01-14-2005, 09:34 AM
Sims spent plenty of time at NC fending off double-teams, especially his senior year. ...

you give Sims too much credit...and Peppers not enough

Peppers is a great, great player. While I don't watch a ton of college FB, I did see Sims play four or five times his senior year. He was an animal, and he WAS often double-teamed (along with Peppers.)

He has NOT been that same player in KC. I've coached, and alhough no NFL "expert" I would strongly contend it's because he's lazy. He doesn't have the passion, or the explosiveness, he demonstrated in college. A fat contract, signing bonus, and a secure "place" in the NFL does that to some people.... :banghead:

:shake: