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View Full Version : If the Pats can Hold the Colts to 3 with Scrub corners...why can't we?


JohnnyV13
01-17-2005, 04:40 AM
Why is it that the Pats can hold the Colts to 3 points with two corners off the street and without their best player (Richard Seymour) and the Chiefs get constantly burned with their best personnel?

Discuss....

Rausch
01-17-2005, 04:47 AM
Confidence + HFA + dominant front 7 = playoff wins...

elvomito
01-17-2005, 05:37 AM
and weather. if it was snowy last year at arrowhead instead of sunny, we would have won

Rausch
01-17-2005, 05:39 AM
and weather. if it was snowy last year at arrowhead instead of sunny, we would have won

That's like saying "Sorry, if not for those last two drinks I could have gotten it up..."

Don't cut it.

elvomito
01-17-2005, 05:49 AM
or, because of these last two drinks, i can get it up:)

Rausch
01-17-2005, 05:58 AM
or, because of these last two drinks, i can get it up:)

Reminds me of my uncle...

He said: "Beer keeps me single, whiskey helps me meet new people...like lawyers, and judges, and county clerks, and...." about this time I quit listening...

Herzig
01-17-2005, 06:20 AM
and weather. if it was snowy last year at arrowhead instead of sunny, we would have won

With our defense last year and this year, even if we had beaten the Colts, someone would have beaten us. Our defense is a fatal weakness that has to fixed if we are to have any chance at a ring.

MichaelH
01-17-2005, 06:39 AM
Why is it that the Pats can hold the Colts to 3 points with two corners off the street and without their best player (Richard Seymour) and the Chiefs get constantly burned with their best personnel?

Discuss....

The Patriot's linebackers. They were simply awesome last night.

donkhater
01-17-2005, 06:48 AM
Why is it that the Pats can hold the Colts to 3 points with two corners off the street and without their best player (Richard Seymour) and the Chiefs get constantly burned with their best personnel?

Discuss....
Because even their WR-turned part-time CB is better than anything the Chiefs have in their defensive backfield.

KC Jones
01-17-2005, 06:48 AM
Because we also have scrub linebackers and scrub safeties, and our D-line isn't as good.

Next Question.

Dartgod
01-17-2005, 07:35 AM
One word.

Coaching.

CosmicPal
01-17-2005, 09:17 AM
One word.

Coaching.

If it was coaching, then OUR own defense would have been so much better.

Trust me, it's not the coaching....

Garcia Bronco
01-17-2005, 09:32 AM
Intestinal Fortitude. That's all...nothing more...they want it more. All these guys are quick enough...might not be smart enough, but those PAts players want it more.

chief52
01-17-2005, 09:33 AM
Because the Chief defense is not the Patriot defense...or even close.

Dartgod
01-17-2005, 09:53 AM
If it was coaching, then OUR own defense would have been so much better.

Trust me, it's not the coaching....
Sure it is. How many times last year were our DBs in position to make a play if they had only turned to look for the ball? Who teaches them their techniques? Sure, there may be some differences in ability, but A LOT of New England's success comes from coaching.

Cochise
01-17-2005, 09:54 AM
Come on, what are you guys talking about? Your 3 corners are the whole defense! You must have teh shutdown corner (tm)

Tuckdaddy
01-17-2005, 09:55 AM
and weather. if it was snowy last year at arrowhead instead of sunny, we would have won

snow killed the Colts offense more than the Pats. They would catch and fall down or not be able to get those steps to separate because the field was a wet mud hole.

2bikemike
01-17-2005, 09:57 AM
Sure it is. How many times last year were our DBs in position to make a play if they had only turned to look for the ball? Who teaches them their techniques? Sure, there may be some differences in ability, but A LOT of New England's success comes from coaching.

I agree. You can watch the players and see that their technique sucks. It is most apparent in the Corners.

Also a good coach will motivate his players to get them to play beyond expectations.

bricks
01-17-2005, 10:03 AM
Sure it is. How many times last year were our DBs in position to make a play if they had only turned to look for the ball? Who teaches them their techniques? Sure, there may be some differences in ability, but A LOT of New England's success comes from coaching.

that's why Peter Giunta sucks.

CosmicPal
01-17-2005, 10:16 AM
Intestinal Fortitude. That's all...nothing more...they want it more. All these guys are quick enough...might not be smart enough, but those PAts players want it more.

The fact of the matter is- it is a culmination of a myriad of things.

It does begin with coaching, I'll agree with that. But, todays' defenses are built upon pure speed and power.

You need a QB in the middle of the defense- meaning your MLB must be trusted, reliable, and responsible for the entire defense.

You need your OLB's to have blazing speed, and they must be able to tackle at will. They must be able to cover TE's, third/fourth WR's, RB's and be able to get after the QB.

You must have a building in the middle of your defensive line that moves with power and grace, and requires a persistent double-team.

Your defensive ends must have the speed and upper-strength to fend off monstrous offensive tackles, get around the corners, get after the QB, and at the same time- not be fooled when the QB leaves the pocket or the offensive runs a misdirection.

Your safeties must be the generals on the field- intelligent and mean, with the keen ability to fly to the ball and must be trusted to make open field tackles w/out the help of anyone else around.

Your DB's must have quick feet and blazing speeds, and they must be bright enough to read formations, routes, and the QB.

That's your recipe, and your coach is your cook.

CosmicPal
01-17-2005, 10:18 AM
Oops...sorry Garcia Bronco, I meant to quote Dartgod's response...

MOhillbilly
01-17-2005, 10:21 AM
because the pats front 7 have real starting nfl talent where the Chiefs have second stringers at best in 5 outta seven positions.

bricks
01-17-2005, 10:32 AM
Intestinal Fortitude. That's all...nothing more...they want it more. All these guys are quick enough...might not be smart enough, but those PAts players want it more.

Yeah I agree. Really folks, it boils down to the people's will and desire to play the game. It's all about passion. And, New England has a lot more of that than KC does. That's the difference really. I recall a time, where I watched a Sunday night game between the Pats and the Bills, Dan Patrick and Paul Maguire discussed the 4 things Belichek looks for in a player during evaluation process, 1. commitment to football, 2. Intellegence, 3. passion to play the game, 4. overall team attitude


The difference here, is, Bellichek and his FO are working in conjuction. They're bringing in the personnel that is suitable to Bellichek's profile of what he wants in a player, sure, he looks like a genius. I don't see how he is any different than any other coach. I think his understanding, philosophy, beliefs outweigh DV's. I think his motto is the right fit for todays NFL. that's all it is really. So what does that tell us about Bellichek? He's more of a judge of character, than he is talent. And I'm saying that character is the way to go in todays NFL. that's what the Patriots are. Character. The whole team. And the Chiefs, well, aren't.

philfree
01-17-2005, 10:43 AM
We did beat the Colts this year that said Bartee is the worst CB in the NFL. Combine that with McCleon being short and old and we have two guys with targets on them saying throw it here. Besides that the Pats are in Peytons head and he chokes when he plays them. His WRs dropped alot of balls too but the real reason that Peyton and the Colts can't get their offense off agaisnt the Pats is time. He doesn't have the time because Beliceck's D is harder to read and even if Peyton does read the D properly it doesn't matter because the D still gets pressure quick enough that the Colts can't exacute.


PhilFree :arrow:

philfree
01-17-2005, 10:46 AM
I recall a time, where I watched a Sunday night game between the Pats and the Bills, Dan Patrick and Paul Maguire discussed the 4 things Belichek looks for in a player during evaluation process, 1. commitment to football, 2. Intellegence, 3. passion to play the game, 4. overall team attitude

Those things are part of DVs profile too. I bet if we could lay each coaches profile for players side by side that they would be almost identicle.


PhilFree :arrow:

bricks
01-17-2005, 10:53 AM
Those things are part of DVs profile too. I bet if we could lay each coaches profile for players side by side that they would be almost identicle.


PhilFree :arrow:

so, if that the case. It has to be that Carl, and, DV aren't working in conjuction. Something, somebody is screwing up somewhere.

SNR
01-17-2005, 10:57 AM
Wouldn't you rather have 2 of those 3 scrub corners rather than Bartee and McCleon?

bricks
01-17-2005, 11:00 AM
sure. I don't see how they could be any worse. See the licking Samuel put on Stokley? Or the pass broken up by Troy Brown on Stokley? If only Bartee and McCleon could do those things.

philfree
01-17-2005, 11:07 AM
so, if that the case. It has to be that Carl, and, DV aren't working in conjuction. Something, somebody is screwing up somewhere.

The Patriots have had a good D for a while now but they lucked out on Brady in the 6th round. They got a Hall Of Fame QB in the 6th round :) If we were to get a D player of that quality in the 6th round we'd probably be better too. That's not an excuse for the Chiefs but rather an observation of why the Patriots are what they are.

The Donks got Davis in the 6th round so I think it's clear that we are fugging up the 6th round of the draft. Damit Carl :cuss:


PhilFree :arrow:

bricks
01-17-2005, 11:12 AM
and jimmy Wilkerson will be our defensive savior. Watch and see, he'll beat hicks out in tc this year. He will be starting, and, will be a defensive terror. I mean relentless pass rush specialist. :rolleyes:

Garcia Bronco
01-17-2005, 11:20 AM
The Patriots have had a good D for a while now but they lucked out on Brady in the 6th round. They got a Hall Of Fame QB in the 6th round :) If we were to get a D player of that quality in the 6th round we'd probably be better too. That's not an excuse for the Chiefs but rather an observation of why the Patriots are what they are.

The Donks got Davis in the 6th round so I think it's clear that we are fugging up the 6th round of the draft. Damit Carl :cuss:


PhilFree :arrow:



LOL

Deberg_1990
01-17-2005, 11:22 AM
Vermeil knows offense, almost every decision he has made for our team about offense he has been dead on correct. He knows almost nothing about defense, the mentality or the types of defensive players it takes to win.

Skip Towne
01-17-2005, 11:25 AM
If we aren't going to use Samie Parker at WR, then give him a shot at CB. He can't be any worse than Bartee and could be a pleasant surprise.

ChiefsCountry
01-17-2005, 12:47 PM
Secondary sucks bc Peter Gunita is our freaking db coach. He is the worst Defensive coach outside of Greg Robinson.

JohnnyV13
01-17-2005, 02:47 PM
I guess the thing that really struck me about this question is that most here see CB as our number one need and the most likely route to solving our D problems. Yet, the Pats put on a great D performance without prime talent at the CB spot.

I guess my question is relelvant to how the Chiefs attempt to rebuild the defense. Clearly, you CAN put a respectable defense on the field without prime talent. To me it comes down to this: what moves do the Chiefs need to make to bring what they currnetly have on par with what the Pats put on the field yesterday?

warpaint99
01-17-2005, 03:04 PM
If you watched ESPN , Salsbury-steak said 'LINEBACKERS !'

.They jammed their WR and TACKLED.

They also got pressure on Manning some of the time.

But the weather contributed.