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tk13
01-18-2005, 01:28 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/sports/10668159.htm

Vermeil: Defensive coaches staying

By ADAM TEICHER The Kansas City Star


Despite pressure to improve a defense that finished next to last in yards allowed, Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil said Monday that he will make no changes to his defensive staff.

Vermeil was encouraged by president/general manager Carl Peterson to make some moves, particularly at defensive back. Peter Giunta and Vernon Dean coached a secondary that allowed more passing yards than any other NFL team.

Vermeil took the two weeks since the Chiefs' season-ending loss in San Diego to ponder changes. He returned to his Arrowhead Stadium office Monday, saying that while all of his assistants would be welcome to return, he also expected better results next season.

“The only way any football coach is evaluated is on how many games they won,” Vermeil said. “Since we won only seven games, everybody on this staff, including me, is evaluated as below average. An 8-8 record would have meant we were average.”

Although the Chiefs played poorly on defense since he joined the Chiefs in 2001, Vermeil has remained steadfastly loyal to his assistants. He resisted pressure from Peterson to replace coordinator Greg Robinson two years ago.

The only defensive staff changes were made last year when Vermeil accepted Robinson's resignation and linebackers coach Joe Vitt left for the Rams.

Giunta and Dean are under scrutiny after many of the defensive backs had poor seasons. The play of safeties Greg Wesley and Jerome Woods slipped noticeably. Young cornerbacks William Bartee and Julian Battle failed to develop into reliable players.

Vermeil said his coaches weren't to blame.

“Peter Giunta is no more guilty now than he was 100 percent responsible for the Super Bowl championship defense and the secondary he coached with the Rams,” Vermeil said. “They coached the players we give them to coach to the best of their ability. Do I blame them if a guy blows a coverage or breaks down fundamentally? No.

“If I thought they were doing a poor job of that, I would handle that. But I don't think that's true.”

Vermeil last year replaced Robinson with Gunther Cunningham and Vitt with Fred Pagac, but otherwise made few changes to defensive personnel. The Chiefs were even worse defensively. They allowed 103 more points and 330 additional yards and forced 17 fewer turnovers.

The Chiefs would have a second offensive staff departure if quarterback coach Jason Verduzco departs. He is a candidate to become offensive coordinator on Robinson's staff at Syracuse, where he recently became head coach.

Tight-ends coach Keith Rowen left two weeks ago to become offensive coordinator for the Arizona Cardinals. He is replaced by Terry Shea, a former Chiefs assistant who spent one year with Chicago.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 01:31 AM
“The only way any football coach is evaluated is on how many games they won,” Vermeil said. “Since we won only seven games, everybody on this staff, including me, is evaluated as below average. An 8-8 record would have meant we were average.”


The ****?!?! The only way a football coach is evaluated on MY staff is how they performed on their ****ing side of the ball. #31 out of 32 is slightly below ****ing average. Slightly.

I'm growing less fond of Dick Vermeil by the hour.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 01:33 AM
GUNTA needs to go, our dbacks suck ass, hello.

tk13
01-18-2005, 01:34 AM
ROFL Yeah, this should cause a riot. I will be famous on ChiefsPlanet for starting a riot.

Actually, hopefully that this is a bit of good news in that he pretty much says we have to get the coaches better players to coach.... hopefully.....

Pants
01-18-2005, 01:35 AM
The ****?!?! The only way a football coach is evaluated on MY staff is how they performed on their ****ing side of the ball. #31 out of 32 is slightly below ****ing average. Slightly.

I'm growing less fond of Dick Vermeil by the hour.

What he said.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 01:37 AM
Actually, hopefully that this is a bit of good news in that he pretty much says we have to get the coaches better players to coach.... hopefully.....

I didn't get to that part before my head exploded.

If it were possible to be top 5 in the league in defense and offense and STILL go 7-9, Dick Vermeil would be talking about how his coaches were amongst the top ****ing 5 in the league instead of below average.

He is such a gunt. Wow, that pisses me off. Does he think people are really that stupid?

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 01:37 AM
Well, I guess we can look forward to 8-8 next year.

KcMizzou
01-18-2005, 01:38 AM
I'm growing less fond of Dick Vermeil by the hour. I'm a homer by nature, but I agree. We've got to do something... anything. If they pull off a big FA move or two, at least I'll feel like they tried. This is really getting depressing. We'll see...

Phobia
01-18-2005, 01:38 AM
I swear to God the next time I see Dick Vermeil in public, rather than shaking his hand, I will kick him in the shins. Mark my words. I may chicken out at the last moment and make it appear as though it were an accident, but either way DICK VERMEIL WILL BE RUBBING HIS SHINS AND CRYING.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 01:40 AM
I swear to God the next time I see Dick Vermeil in public, rather than shaking his hand, I will kick him in the shins. Mark my words. I may chicken out at the last moment and make it appear as though it were an accident, but either way DICK VERMEIL WILL BE RUBBING HIS SHINS AND CRYING.

hah haah... :deevee:

yeah, Im all excited about the 2006 season. Perhaps I should change my avatar to 2006? heh.

Pants
01-18-2005, 01:42 AM
hah haah... :deevee:

yeah, Im all excited about the 2006 season. Perhaps I should change my avatar to 2006? heh.

Does the ring go by the year of the season or the SB? This Superbowl is the one in '05.

BigMeatballDave
01-18-2005, 01:44 AM
Dick cannot leave soon enough!

Phobia
01-18-2005, 01:46 AM
Dick cannot leave soon enough!

Watch that goofy little bastard cry this team into a superbowl win this year, too. Gawd, won't we feel like dipshits?

tk13
01-18-2005, 01:47 AM
I didn't get to that part before my head exploded.

If it were possible to be top 5 in the league in defense and offense and STILL go 7-9, Dick Vermeil would be talking about how his coaches were amongst the top ****ing 5 in the league instead of below average.

He is such a gunt. Wow, that pisses me off. Does he think people are really that stupid?
Yeah, this is really the only good part of the article I imagine in most people's minds...

“They coached the players we give them to coach to the best of their ability."

I think it's pretty obvious what that means, hopefully they follow through. I think they will.

KcMizzou
01-18-2005, 01:47 AM
Watch that goofy little bastard cry this team into a superbowl win this year, too. Gawd, won't we feel like dipshits? Man, I hope so. I can handle feeling like a dipshit.

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 01:48 AM
I swear to God the next time I see Dick Vermeil in public, rather than shaking his hand, I will kick him in the shins. Mark my words. I may chicken out at the last moment and make it appear as though it were an accident, but either way DICK VERMEIL WILL BE RUBBING HIS SHINS AND CRYING.

He'll sue your ass.

Have you even shaken his hand, anyway?

Just flip him off.

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 01:49 AM
Man, I hope so. I can handle feeling like a dipshit.

So if we win the Super Bowl I won't feel any different?

KcMizzou
01-18-2005, 01:51 AM
So if we win the Super Bowl I won't feel any different? You'll feel like an insanely happy dipshit.

Just like me.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 01:52 AM
He'll sue your ass.

Have you even shaken his hand, anyway?

Just flip him off.

Yeah. Stevieray and I had our picture taken with him. He left the impression that he couldn't get away fast enough. I'm sure it was me, but maybe he's not quite the people person everybody thinks he is....

KcMizzou
01-18-2005, 01:54 AM
Hey Phob.. if you could pick our next coach, who would it be?

I don't have any point to this... I'm just curious.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 01:57 AM
Does the ring go by the year of the season or the SB? This Superbowl is the one in '05.

its based on teh season, as the real ring was 1969... Im thinking of making one that is 2028, cuz i think that is prolly more accurate.

Good thing we are Jayhawk fans, eh? I feel like a Patriots fan... cuz Bill Self is so young. We are gonna be awesome for years!!! woo hoo.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 01:57 AM
Hey Phob.. if you could pick our next coach, who would it be?

I don't have any point to this... I'm just curious.

Anybody who isn't a Marty disciple. Really. I don't follow the entire league as closely as I used to, but I do know that Marty disciples don't win superbowls. I'd like somebody who doesn't hug players who fumble and draw flags. It think that's kinda important to instilling discipline despite what Dick Vermeil would lead us to believe in his bullshit, joke press conferences.

I'd rather watch Dr. Phil 10x a day than one Dick Vermeil press conference. Hold me to that, it's no bullshit.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 01:59 AM
Yeah. Stevieray and I had our picture taken with him. He left the impression that he couldn't get away fast enough. I'm sure it was me, but maybe he's not quite the people person everybody thinks he is....

yeah, you were kinda rank both times that I have hung out with you. Its called deoderant dude....

just saying.

http://www.ironcircus.com/tmyk.jpg

Phobia
01-18-2005, 02:01 AM
The handle is "Phobia", not Donger, dude. I have no hygiene issues.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 02:02 AM
The handle is "Phobia", not Donger, dude. I have no hygiene issues.


ROFL

Pants
01-18-2005, 02:03 AM
its based on teh season, as the real ring was 1969... Im thinking of making one that is 2028, cuz i think that is prolly more accurate.

Good thing we are Jayhawk fans, eh? I feel like a Patriots fan... cuz Bill Self is so young. We are gonna be awesome for years!!! woo hoo.

Yeah man I know. Bill is the shit, and (according to Phobia) unlike DV he is genuinely nice.

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 02:03 AM
I'd like the Chiefs to find a guy like Jack Del Rio.

I watched that preseason show about the Jaguars training camp on HBO and I think he's exactly what the Chiefs need. Smart off the field, tough on the field.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 02:04 AM
Yeah man I know. Bill is the shit, and (according to Phobia) unlike DV he is genuinely nice.

maybe the Chiefs need a head coach whose name starts with Bill?

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 02:04 AM
Parcells, Walsh, Belichek... :hmmm:

Phobia
01-18-2005, 02:06 AM
I'd like the Chiefs to find a guy like Jack Del Rio.

I watched that preseason show about the Jaguars training camp on HBO and I think he's exactly what the Chiefs need. Smart off the field, tough on the field.

Oh CHRIST.

You though Skip Towne hated you before?

Wait until he sees this one. Holy shit. I think I'm gonna have to email him. ROFL

Jack Del Rio

You do know that Jack was a Scab who assaulted the Chiefs most beloved WR in '82, don't you?

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 02:09 AM
Oh CHRIST.

You though Skip Towne hated you before?

Wait until he sees this one. Holy shit. I think I'm gonna have to email him. ROFL

Jack Del Rio

You do know that Jack was a Scab who assaulted the Chiefs most beloved WR in '82, don't you?

I had no idea.

I still think he's a good head coach.

splatbass
01-18-2005, 02:09 AM
Oh CHRIST.


You do know that Jack was a Scab who assaulted the Chiefs most beloved WR in '82, don't you?

I think it was '86, but your point still stands...

Phobia
01-18-2005, 02:10 AM
I think it was '86, but your point still stands...

Oh. Well. Thanks.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 02:12 AM
Oh CHRIST.

You though Skip Towne hated you before?

Wait until he sees this one. Holy shit. I think I'm gonna have to email him. ROFL

Jack Del Rio

You do know that Jack was a Scab who assaulted the Chiefs most beloved WR in '82, don't you?

who? Stephone Paige? Or Carlos Carson? Or JJ Birden? Or uh, Lake Dawson?

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 02:12 AM
86?

I thought Otis Taylor was the most beloved WR.

So are you talking about Carson or Paige?

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 02:13 AM
Head coach JACK DEL RIO played LB for Chiefs from 1987-88

Phobia
01-18-2005, 02:18 AM
who? Stephone Paige? Or Carlos Carson? Or JJ Birden? Or uh, Lake Dawson?

Otis. He worked in the FO at the time.

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 02:22 AM
Otis. He worked in the FO at the time.

thank you google...

New Panthers coach mixed it up with Chiefs legend
By JEFFREY FLANAGAN

Former Chiefs linebacker Jack Del Rio is expected to be introduced as head coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars today. When you mention the name Del Rio in these parts, you can't help but think of Otis Taylor as well.

Del Rio and Taylor were involved in one of the ugliest incidents in the 1987 NFL strike, the last time the NFL went on strike.

Del Rio, along with several other players, was picketing outside the stadium offices when Taylor, then a Chiefs scout, tried to walk through the line with some replacement players he had scouted.

Del Rio did not recognize Taylor and thought he was a replacement player, too. Taylor said Del Rio called him a "dirty scab" and a "lowlife."

A scuffle ensued, and witnesses reported that Del Rio got Taylor in a headlock and body-slammed him to the ground. Another striking player, Dino Hackett, and sports agent Charles Meek eventually separated the players.

Kansas City Star sportswriter Randy Covitz was covering the strike story and was on the scene. He said once Del Rio finally recognized Taylor, Del Rio said, "Hey, Otis, I used to love watching you. You were a great player."

Taylor did not take the incident lightly and filed a criminal complaint against Del Rio. But the Kansas City prosecutor did not file charges.

Taylor then filed a $1 million lawsuit against Del Rio, player representative Nick Lowery and the NFL Players Association. The case was settled out of court two years later.

Taylor, who recently retired from Blue Cross and Blue Shield, could not be reached for comment Thursday.

TRR
01-18-2005, 02:30 AM
It doesn't matter who we have coaching our defensive backs as long as we have scrubs like McCleon, Bartee, and Battle back there.

We need to upgrade the defense by adding more talented players. We tried the "coaching" change last offseason. It didn't work.

KcMizzou
01-18-2005, 02:32 AM
It doesn't matter who we have coaching our defensive backs as long as we have scrubs like McCleon, Bartee, and Battle back there.

We need to upgrade the defense by adding more talented players. We tried the "coaching" change last offseason. It didn't work. Hey! You're that bastard that started the rumor about Trotter!

Phobia
01-18-2005, 02:33 AM
It doesn't matter who we have coaching our defensive backs as long as we have scrubs like McCleon, Bartee, and Battle back there.

We need to upgrade the defense by adding more talented players. We tried the "coaching" change last offseason. It didn't work.

That's crap. You seen the DB's the Patriots are fielding lately?

The Patriots could put me in the defensive backfield and hold the Colts to 10 (I'd probably give up at least 1 TD to Marv).

tk13
01-18-2005, 02:34 AM
Just as we say this, the Super Bowl video from Vermeil's SB loss with the Eagles is on ESPN right now.... if only we could trade our defense for that team's defense...

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 02:35 AM
That's crap. You seen the DB's the Patriots are fielding lately?

The Patriots could put me in the defensive backfield and hold the Colts to 10 (I'd probably give up at least 1 TD to Marv).

Believe it or not, the Patriots defensive backfield even with their injuries, has alot of talent in it. Granted, it's YOUNG talent, but they have done a great job of drafting.

Their front seven and the game conditions helped them alot against the Colts though.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 02:39 AM
Believe it or not, the Patriots defensive backfield even with their injuries, has alot of talent in it. Granted, it's YOUNG talent, but they have done a great job of drafting.

Their front seven and the game conditions helped them alot against the Colts though.

Dude, they're playing an undrafted rookie and a WR as their 2nd corner and nickel.

KcMizzou
01-18-2005, 02:40 AM
Just as we say this, the Super Bowl video from Vermeil's SB loss with the Eagles is on ESPN right now.... if only we could trade our defense for that team's defense... Wow.. DV looks really, really young.

Obvious I know...

Ari Chi3fs
01-18-2005, 02:42 AM
yeah but if we traded our defense for theirs, we would be complaining about how old our defense is.


bah dum- pah....ching

tk13
01-18-2005, 02:44 AM
Wow.. DV looks really, really young.

Obvious I know...
Yeah, believe it or not if you look up the stats on that team you'd see that they were the #1 defense in the league, a couple years running too... he always had better defensive teams, until he came here of course.

tk13
01-18-2005, 02:46 AM
yeah but if we traded our defense for theirs, we would be complaining about how old our defense is.


bah dum- pah....ching
Har har. Hopefully he's not here all week folks. :)

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 02:56 AM
Dude, they're playing an undrafted rookie and a WR as their 2nd corner and nickel.

I know. They're talented guys. And that Eugene Wilson is pretty good too.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 03:00 AM
I know. They're talented guys. And that Eugene Wilson is pretty good too.

We put either one of them in our backfield and you're BEGGING for Bartee and McCleon back.

It's not the DB's.

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 03:05 AM
We put either one of them in our backfield and you're BEGGING for Bartee and McCleon back.

It's not the DB's.

I saw Manning get protection numerous times the other night. He stood in the pocket for five, six, seven seconds...no one was open.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 03:14 AM
I saw Manning get protection numerous times the other night. He stood in the pocket for five, six, seven seconds...no one was open.

Do you seriously believe an undrafted rookie and a WR can cover as well as Bartee? Nothing on that entire Patriot team relies exclusively on individual talent.

MichaelH
01-18-2005, 04:06 AM
After reading every post in this thread, there's 10 minutes I'll really miss, I've decided this.I think the defensive failures are a combination of players and coaching. Every aspect of that defense could and should be upgraded, with the defensive backs and linebackers taking priority. I also think there's a lack of fire and emotion on the field. If there is emotion, it's gentle and loving emotion, not "I'm going to rip your head off and shit down your throat" emotion. I used to really admire and respect the head coach, now I can't wait for him to retire. The only problem is once that happens, the team as we know will probably be dismantled and yet another rebuilding will occur.

Phobia
01-18-2005, 04:10 AM
After reading every post in this thread, there's 10 minutes I'll really miss, I've decided this.I think the defensive failures are a combination of players and coaching. Every aspect of that defense could and should be upgraded, with the defensive backs and linebackers taking priority. I also think there's a lack of fire and emotion on the field. If there is emotion, it's gentle and loving emotion, not "I'm going to rip your head off and shit down your throat" emotion. I used to really admire and respect the head coach, now I can't wait for him to retire. The only problem is once that happens, the team as we know will probably be dismantled and yet another rebuilding will occur.

Yup. More importantly, no leadership on that side of the ball. Erica Hicks is supposedly the defensive captain. I've heard/seen him squeak up twice in 7 years, once when begging off training camp for his wife to experience a complicated childbirth and the other time to cuss a female reporter, Rhonda Moss. Yeah, he's a great leader. Is it any wonder our defense hasn't made a play since 1998?

The Bad Guy
01-18-2005, 06:32 AM
Start the god damn petition for this old bag to leave and never come the F back.

So basically Gunita, who has always sucked monkey balls, gets a pass because he won the 1999 Super Bowl with Vermeil?

Greg Robinson won 2 SBs with the Broncos and Shanahan threw him under the bus when he started to suck.

I love it. Does he blame the coaches if a player breaks down fundamentally and blows a coverage? I will say it again, how do we expect these players and coachs to be held accountable for their actions when the head coach wants to make excuses and have a no accountability policy?

Vermeil is the WORST thing that could of happened to this organization.

If I was Gunther, I would tell him to shove his 1999 ring up his ass. He won it because he had an easy schedule - he's basically said that every time he cries about how hard his schedule is.

tomahawk kid
01-18-2005, 06:36 AM
Start the god damn petition for this old bag to leave and never come the F back.

So basically Gunita, who has always sucked monkey balls, gets a pass because he won the 1999 Super Bowl with Vermeil?

Greg Robinson won 2 SBs with the Broncos and Shanahan threw him under the bus when he started to suck.

I love it. Does he blame the coaches if a player breaks down fundamentally and blows a coverage? I will say it again, how do we expect these players and coachs to be held accountable for their actions when the head coach wants to make excuses and have a no accountability policy?

Vermeil is the WORST thing that could of happened to this organization.

If I was Gunther, I would tell him to shove his 1999 ring up his ass. He won it because he had an easy schedule - he's basically said that every time he cries about how hard his schedule is.

Amen.

Dartgod
01-18-2005, 06:38 AM
I was very disappointed to hear this on the news this morning. My wife and I are this close >< to saying FU to Carl and Dick and not renew our season tickets.

old_geezer
01-18-2005, 06:47 AM
I rarely post anymore. As an avid follower of the Chiefs since my high school days in the early 60's, I found this season and this coaching staff to just seemingly suck all of the joy and expectations out of my body.

If Vermeil says it's not the coach's fault then why did we stand pat and sign all the underachievers to new contracts last year? Vermeil is senile and can't buy a clue. I, too, am sick of him making excuses every time for this pathetic defense. The Chiefs will remain a one-demensional mediocre team as long as this "Dick" is allowed to remain head coach.

I seriously doubt we make much of a splash in the free agent market, but even one or two players aren't enough for this grotesque abortion that calls itself an NFL defense.

I feel like we have a one year window left for a miracle to happen; then the house-cleaning starts again. Thanks Dick............for nothing. You did wonders for the offense, but oh my God, what it cost the defense. At least let your DC pick the coaches he wants to work with. I will happily kiss your @ss goodby.

NewChief
01-18-2005, 07:03 AM
Interesting. I was sure that Gunther and CP had decided to make some staffing changes. I'll be curious to see if DV truly has the final word on this one.

Ralphy Boy
01-18-2005, 07:26 AM
None of this should be surprising to anyone, as a functioning team we have a very lopsided organization and that entire organization hasn't proven to know anything about defense the last few years.

Many of us have said that having even a middle of the pack defense would get us deep into the playoffs and I would consider only the AFC & NFC Championship games to mean "deep". A look back over the last 4 years to reflect DV's tenure compared to teams in this years lineup for the Championship games, I don't think that a middle of the pack D will cut it. DV needs to wake up and realize that serious changes are needed and his decision to keep his coaches coupled with Carl's comments the other night about not cutting vets because of contract accelerations doesn't bode well for this season at all.

The Defensive rankings of the 4 teams in the Championship games compared to ours.
Steelers #1 in yards, #2 in rushing, #4 in passing, #1 in scoring
Eagles # 10 in yards, #16 in rushing, #12 in passing, #2 in scoring tied
Falcons #14 in yards, #8 in rushing, #22 in passing, #14 in scoring
Patriots # 9 in yards, #6 in rushing, #17 in passing, #2 in scoring tied
KC # 31 in yards, #12 in rushing, #32 in passing, #29 in scoring

We have a huge mountain to climb and to say that I don't think this offseasons changes or additions will be enough to get us there is an understatement.

our Offense compared to those teams:
Steelers #16 in yards, #2 rushing, #28 passing, #11 in scoring
Eagles #9 in yards, #24 rushing, #7 passing, #8 in scoring
Falcons #20 in yards, #1 rushing, #30 passing, #16 in scoring
Patriots #7 in yards, #7 rushing, #11 passing, #4 in scoring
KC #1 in yards, #5 rushing, #4 passing, #2 in scoring

A lot of good being a good offense does us, or Indy, Minnesota, Green Bay, St Louis, Denver or Seattle. All are ranked in the top 10 in offensive yards and just like us having a good O doesn't mean squat.

DV of all people should know better than anyone that defense is key because it was one of the biggest reasons he got his ring.

Looking at the teams still in it, the defense is what has got them this far, but their drafts have been fairly well balanced on both sides of the ball and each team had players who haven't performed up to expectation, whether it was just from being a bust or injury or whatever.
Steelers
2001 - Casey Hampton DT, Kendrell Bell LB
2002 - Kendall Simmons OG, Antwaan Randle El WR
2003 - Troy Polamalu S, Alonzo Jackson DE
2004 - Ben Roethlisberger QB, Ricardo Colclough CB
4 defensive picks in the first 2 rounds & 3 offensive
Not sure that Jackson has made any impact, but other than that pretty good.
Hampton was a hella starter til injury same for Bell & Simmons. Add the 3 of them plus BR, & Polamalu & that is 5 starters.

Eagles
2001 - Freddie Mitchell WR, Quinton Caver LB
2002 - Lito Sheppard CB, Michael Lewis S
2003 - Jerome McDougle DE, LJ Smith TE
2004 - Shawn Andrews OT, no 2nd
4 defensive picks in the first 2 & 3 offensive
Caver was obviously a bust there & McDougle hasn't done jack considering they traded up to get him. Then again playing behind Kearse...
Mitchell only became a starter by default of TO and Andrews got hurt before the season really got started
Lewis, Sheppard are the only 2 to have helped this year.

Falcons
2001 - Vick QB, Alge Crumpler TE
2002 - TJ Duckett RB, Will Overstreet DE
2003 - no 1st, Bryan Scott CB
2004 - DeAngelo Hall CB, Michael Jenkins WR
4 offensive picks & 3 defensive
Duckett hasn't lived up to the hype, but fits well in the offense, Overstreet has been hurt.
Vick, Crumpler, Scott & Hall are starters

Patriots
2001 - Richard Seymour DT, Matt Light OG
2002 - Daniel Graham TE, Deion Branch WR
2003 - Ty Warren DT, Eugene Wilson CB, Bethel Johnson WR
2004 - Vince Wilfork DT, Ben Watson TE, Marquise Hill DE
5 defensive picks & 5 offensive
Seymour, Light, Graham, Branch, Warren & Wilson are starters

Chiefs
2001 - Trade Trent Green QB, Trade DV
2002 - Ryans Sims DT, Eddie Freeman DT
2003 - Larry Johnson RB, Kawika Mitchell LB
2004 - no 1st, Junior Siavii DT, Kris Wilson TE
4 defensive picks & 2 offensive plus the 2 traded picks to pick up Green and the offensive minded DV.
Green is a starter but when you trade a 1st for a vet, he'd better be.
Mitchell & Sims are the only drafted starters.

It's obviously easy to look at the stats & amount of starters drafted in the first 2 rounds and say that New England is the best run organization, but point blank they've gotten 6 starters in 4 drafts. It's hard to compare that to our 2 starters because you have to consider that DV & Green were traded for also but it just goes to show that we are far from being worthy of a ring.

Like most of, a job change is inspiring and motivates you to give it your all. To say that Guinta & others can't be a good coach is probably shortsighted, but to say that they can't be a good coach here is probably very true. They've become complacent under DV because they know he doesn't hold them accountable so they aren't motivated to do a good job and that may not necessarily be obvious to DV. However a new staff that is just coming together is generally more excited about building something together.

ROYC75
01-18-2005, 07:26 AM
This is sad news, but it is what I expected of him. With all the coaches and staff only signed for the next year, I see why DV did this.

As a coach, who wants to come to KC for 1 year, a year where there is a good chance to meet failure ?

old_geezer
01-18-2005, 07:34 AM
I might also add that this is object lesson #1 in why it's not a good idea to hire your friend and good buddy to be head coach. If Marty or Gun pulled this same crap they'd be gone already, but Carl can't (or won"t) fire his good buddy Dick.

Tuckdaddy
01-18-2005, 07:46 AM
The players need to change, not the coaches. No coach teaches not to turn your head around and look for the ball. Or to blow assignments. We need players that play better and understand the defense and where they are suppose to be at.

tomahawk kid
01-18-2005, 07:46 AM
I might also add that this is object lesson #1 in why it's not a good idea to hire your friend and good buddy to be head coach. If Marty or Gun pulled this same crap they'd be gone already, but Carl can't (or won"t) fire his good buddy Dick.

Firing is too good for this gray haired old f#ck.

His complete lack of respect and accountability to and for this franchise, along with its fans, deserves a savage f#cking beating and a one way ticket back to his p#ssy a$$ ranch in PA.

He's done absolutely nothing for this organization.

And to think I was excited when he landed here. This f#ck is more worried about his "friends" on the coaching staff than winning a championship - its that simple. I'm glad that we've become a haven for the "limber dick club" of NFL coaches. It really makes me want to go out and pay even more cash for tickets and merchandise (sarcasm).

The sooner we get "Dick" and his loser buddy Carl out of this town, the better.

What a complete b!tch.

DaWolf
01-18-2005, 07:49 AM
OK fine Dick, then if this is the case, admit that you guys were dumbasses for sticking with Bartee and drafting Battle and go out and get new corners if these guys are such excellent coaches.

Do I blame them if a guy blows a coverage or breaks down fundamentally? No.

And here I was thinking that a coach is SUPPOSED to teach fundamentals and get his lessons across in a way where the guy won't be breaking down fundamentally time and time again. I guess this is an admission that this is the DUMBEST group of DB's in the history of the league too.

“Peter Giunta is no more guilty now than he was 100 percent responsible for the Super Bowl championship defense and the secondary he coached with the Rams,” Vermeil said.

I'm sure he also wasn't responsible for the last place defense the Rams fielded the very next year either, once John Bunting left as the co-defensive coordinator. At least Martz had the balls to get rid of the guy.

All I know is this: in 1999 the Rams front office stepped in and forced Vermeil's hand to change his staff. Since Carl isn't doing the same thing here and forcing Vermeil's hand, it is ultimately Carl's responsibility. So Carl, you damn well better have the offseason of your life and get these brilliant coaches some players, otherwise you're gonna be sending your dream coach home with a broken legacy instead of riding off into the sunset...

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 07:50 AM
so I take it everybody is now ready to take seriously what I posted LAST week, from Holthus?

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 07:52 AM
Vermeil = Gunther

kc rush
01-18-2005, 07:55 AM
How many times did we hear Dick say that they failed as coaches to prepare the players to play? Fans and the media were too tough on the players, because they have talent. Dick saw it on the practice field every day.

Now that it means that his friends may have to go, it is the players fault for not being talented enough.

Which is it Dick? Either way changes need to be made and Dick doesn't seem to have the balls to do it. He doesn't want to move outside of his comfort zone to build something truly great and Carl doesn't want to upset his buddy. Hooray for mediocrity.

I wonder what Gunther has to say about all of this. I wonder what Lamar has to say.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-18-2005, 08:01 AM
“They coached the players we give them to coach to the best of their ability."


Well maayyyyyybe Dick is finally admitting that the players aren't good enough. Now if we could just get him to believe that he and the defensive coaches aren't good enough we might start getting somewhere.

morphius
01-18-2005, 08:09 AM
If after every loss you say that you as a coaching staff need to do a better job at coaching the players, well, who is the real problem?

Oh well, I can almost guarntee that the reason that DV doesn't want to make any changes is because he knows it is his last year here and doesn't think he would be able to get anyone good to come in here for what is basically a one year job.

Gunther and Carl need to step in and tell DV that they gave him a chance to do it, but they need to make the changes anyway.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-18-2005, 08:16 AM
If after every loss you say that you as a coaching staff need to do a better job at coaching the players, well, who is the real problem?

Oh well, I can almost guarntee that the reason that DV doesn't want to make any changes is because he knows it is his last year here and doesn't think he would be able to get anyone good to come in here for what is basically a one year job.

Gunther and Carl need to step in and tell DV that they gave him a chance to do it, but they need to make the changes anyway.
100% agree. He had to be forced in St. Louis and it won them a Super -Bowl. It needs to be done here.

Dick would make a great offensive coordinator.

brent102fire
01-18-2005, 08:23 AM
Shouldn't Gunther have a say in who the defensive coaches are going to be? There was nothing said about how Gun feels and that frightens me a little bit :hmmm:

shaneo69
01-18-2005, 08:25 AM
This just pisses me off. Every f*cking time that Vermiel brings up a Super Bowl that him or one of his coaches won elsewhere, I just wanna f*cking strangle him.

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 08:29 AM
100% agree. He had to be forced in St. Louis and it won them a Super -Bowl. It needs to be done here.

Dick would make a great offensive coordinator.

Dick would make a great RETIRED HEAD COACH.

Sure-Oz
01-18-2005, 08:32 AM
I am glad this is dicks last year, i really hope we win it all and he goes out on top again but its time for another HC.

siberian khatru
01-18-2005, 08:40 AM
I'm tired of everything that comes out of this old goat's mouth. I don't pay attention anymore. Just STFU, upgrade the talent and win a Super Bowl.

Mike Grose
01-18-2005, 08:41 AM
I'm getting sick to DEATH of half-measures.

Two years ago we tried to fix this broke-ass defense by bringing in some new blood while keeping all the coaches. Didn't work.

Then we tried to fix it by bringing in a new DC while keeping all the old sorry players and assistant coaches. Didn't work.

It's time to fix blow this thing up and go for broke by letting Gunther pick his own assistants and players. GR had to use Vermeil's chosen assistants Gunther had to use Vermeil's chosen assistants, and it's not WORKING!

1 Year. Make or break.

There are plenty of good young minds out there that would be happy to take a shot under Gunther to make their reputation.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-18-2005, 08:43 AM
I'm getting sick to DEATH of half-measures.

Two years ago we tried to fix this broke-ass defense by bringing in some new blood while keeping all the coaches. Didn't work.

Then we tried to fix it by bringing in a new DC while keeping all the old sorry players and assistant coaches. Didn't work.

It's time to fix blow this thing up and go for broke by letting Gunther pick his own assistants and players. GR had to use Vermeil's chosen assistants Gunther had to use Vermeil's chosen assistants, and it's not WORKING!

1 Year. Make or break.

There are plenty of good young minds out there that would be happy to take a shot under Gunther to make their reputation.
I wonder how much Gunther regrets coming back.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-18-2005, 08:43 AM
Dick would make a great RETIRED HEAD COACH.
Even better.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-18-2005, 08:46 AM
I just can't believe that Dick is willing to go out on a sour note. Why doesn't he want to do whatever he can to make a real run at a championship in his last year? He should be going for broke. Instead he's still perfectly happy with mediocrity. Unbelievable.

MichaelH
01-18-2005, 08:47 AM
I wonder how much Gunther regrets coming back.

I've been thinking that too. While DV is contemplating life on his farm, Gunther and Carl have been trying to fix the problem. And they can't fix the problem because he's staring at his swans in his backyard, recharging his batteries for another season of propoganda.

shaneo69
01-18-2005, 08:48 AM
I wonder how much Gunther regrets coming back.

I wonder what Peterson would do if Gunther went to him and threatened to quit if Guinta wasn't fired?

bricks
01-18-2005, 08:51 AM
I wonder what Peterson would do if Gunther went to him and threatened to quit if Guinta wasn't fired?

I think that's what Gunther should do.

bricks
01-18-2005, 08:54 AM
How many times did we hear Dick say that they failed as coaches to prepare the players to play? Fans and the media were too tough on the players, because they have talent. Dick saw it on the practice field every day.

Now that it means that his friends may have to go, it is the players fault for not being talented enough.

Which is it Dick? Either way changes need to be made and Dick doesn't seem to have the balls to do it. He doesn't want to move outside of his comfort zone to build something truly great and Carl doesn't want to upset his buddy. Hooray for mediocrity.

Three words describe Vermeil:

Clueless. Contradicting. Senile.

shaneo69
01-18-2005, 08:54 AM
I think we should all pray that G Rob asks Guinta to be his defensive coordinator at Syracuse. Oh, wouldn't that be too good to be true?

tomahawk kid
01-18-2005, 08:57 AM
I think we should all pray that G Rob asks Guinta to be his defensive coordinator at Syracuse. Oh, wouldn't that be too good to be true?

Don't freaking tease me.

NewChief
01-18-2005, 09:00 AM
I just can't believe that Dick is willing to go out on a sour note. Why doesn't he want to do whatever he can to make a real run at a championship in his last year? He should be going for broke. Instead he's still perfectly happy with mediocrity. Unbelievable.

I don't think that he's "willing to go out on a sour note." I think that he's staying true to his philosophy (loyalty), however misguided that philosophy might be in today's NFL.

bricks
01-18-2005, 09:01 AM
I completely don't understand this. Carl said there was going to be changes. Particularily on his defensive staff and players. Now WTF is happening? Vermeil is coming in and saying no? We'll not make changes? Is Vermeil over-ruling Carl? WTF? Why doesn't Carl just step in and say no! Dick these guys aren't good enough, we need to make a change. He's the f*cking GM, he's got a higher position than Dick. C'mon Carl :cuss: STEP IN AND SHOW DICK YOUR THE BOSS!!!

bricks
01-18-2005, 09:03 AM
If a coach can decide and over-rule over our GM, then, that says a lot about our GM as well. They can both go to hell if that's the case. :cuss: :mad:

shaneo69
01-18-2005, 09:05 AM
Don't freaking tease me.

He hasn't named a D-coordinator yet. He hired Major Applewhite to be QB coach, and former B ronco LB Steve Russ ('95-'00) to be LB coach. I guess we're lucky we didn't have more former B roncos on the defensive staff when he was here. I would bet money that Glenn Cadrez gets a job working for him somewhere down the line.

ck_IN
01-18-2005, 09:08 AM
<i>100% agree. He had to be forced in St. Louis and it won them a Super -Bowl. It needs to be done here.</i>

But in St. Lou the GM had intentions of staying and had no intention of letting DV bring him down. Their GM forced the issue. Our GM won't. If CP were to go gay it would be for DV and there's no way he'll force DV's hand in anything.

DV in turn won't change his coaches because its just not in him. Look at the whole Robinson saga and how DV was so teary eyed about it. There's no way DV would've fired Robinson and the same goes for the rest of this sorry crew.

The Chiefs have basicly wasted 4 years and counting on what could've been a rebuild with a coach dedicated to building a team that was his.

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 09:11 AM
I wonder how much Gunther regrets coming back.

I wonder how much Gunther regrets letting pride get the best of him not once, but twice...

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 09:12 AM
I wonder if Gunther can sit there and be satisfied with the coaches Vermeil is shoving in his lap.

If Gunther doesn't demand that serious upgrades in talent are brought in, he should just resign.

There's way too many egos at One Arrowhead Drive. Sheesh.

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 09:13 AM
<i>100% agree. He had to be forced in St. Louis and it won them a Super -Bowl. It needs to be done here.</i>

But in St. Lou the GM had intentions of staying and had no intention of letting DV bring him down. Their GM forced the issue. Our GM won't. If CP were to go gay it would be for DV and there's no way he'll force DV's hand in anything.

DV in turn won't change his coaches because its just not in him. Look at the whole Robinson saga and how DV was so teary eyed about it. There's no way DV would've fired Robinson and the same goes for the rest of this sorry crew.

The Chiefs have basicly wasted 4 years and counting on what could've been a rebuild with a coach dedicated to building a team that was his.

There is a subtle implication here that is good news...

In St. Louis, the GM had intentions of staying. That's why he stepped in. Perhaps Carl has no intention of staying...

:hmmm:

:bravo:

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 09:14 AM
I wonder if Gunther can sit there and be satisfied with the coaches Vermeil is shoving in his lap.

If Gunther doesn't demand that serious upgrades in talent are brought in, he should just resign.

There's way too many egos at One Arrowhead Drive. Sheesh.

Gunther agreed to take the job, knowing that he would be given no say over coaches.

Once a foot-shuffling porter, always a foot-shuffling porter...

Wile_E_Coyote
01-18-2005, 09:17 AM
CP will have to retire after this year, If the BB can no longer see him as a selfish prick...there is no hope

bricks
01-18-2005, 09:22 AM
The more and more I hear about the Chiefs, and the way they handle their off-season problems, the more and more I think they're a joke. The way I hear the head coach speak, the more I think he's a contradiction. Not only a contradiction, but, an egotistical bastard as well. He's absolutely senile, has no balls, or toughness. The GM is arrogant. Can't even over-rule a HEAD COACH.
the Chiefs deserve to be what they are, 7-9, 8-8. simply cause of the FO down. I can't wait for an entire new over-haul. Here's to 2006 :toast:

Lzen
01-18-2005, 09:29 AM
Every time I hear something out of DV about the defense, I lose more respect for him. :shake: It's obvious that this defense is broken. And major changes need to happen this offseason. Why not give Gun the tools he needs? C'mon DV, stop feeding us BS and do your job that you're being paid to do. :cuss:

Chiefnj
01-18-2005, 09:30 AM
"Vermeil was encouraged by president/general manager Carl Peterson to make some moves, particularly at defensive back. "

At least Peterson can see there is a problem. To bad he can't force a change.

Bowser
01-18-2005, 09:32 AM
How many times has it been posted here......

We are wasting a Super Bowl winning caliber offense!

Over what? Pride? Loyalty? Look at Bellichick in New England. You think anybody on that team, coaches or players, feels that their job is safe after Lawyer Milloy and Drew Bledsoe get the axe? Fear is one hell of a motivator, and unfortunately, nobody has a fear of losing their jobs on this team. Vermeil's players all love the guy to death, but I would guess being in your players' good graces doesn't necessarily make you a good coach (or doesn't mean you'll always make the right decisions).

Vermeil is always saying how he doesn't get in his coordinators way. He needs to prove it now by letting Gunther do what he wants to do to that defensive staff. Let him revamp the coaches and the players as he sees fit. Vermeil holding onto these coaches is just a joke.

Chiefnj
01-18-2005, 09:34 AM
IMHO, perhaps the best thing for the organization would be for Peterson to demand coaching changes, have Vermeil refuse and retire and throw money at Romeo to come over to the west.

ck_IN
01-18-2005, 09:34 AM
I'm glad my subtlety wasn't lost htismaqe.

Contrast Bill Parcells with DV. I pick up the sports page this morning and see where Parcells is trashing his assistant coaching staff. Two (IIRC) heads chopped and perhaps more to come.

DV on the other hand not only keeps his but is appearing to make excuses for them. Now Bill might or might not find better heads to replace those chopped but at least he sees a problem and is doing something about it. Is Dick?

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 09:42 AM
IMHO, perhaps the best thing for the organization would be for Peterson to demand coaching changes, have Vermeil refuse and retire and throw money at Romeo to come over to the west.

Crennel's deal in Cleveland is all but done, IMO.

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 09:43 AM
I'm glad my subtlety wasn't lost htismaqe.

Contrast Bill Parcells with DV. I pick up the sports page this morning and see where Parcells is trashing his assistant coaching staff. Two (IIRC) heads chopped and perhaps more to come.

DV on the other hand not only keeps his but is appearing to make excuses for them. Now Bill might or might not find better heads to replace those chopped but at least he sees a problem and is doing something about it. Is Dick?

Am I the only one that noticed?

You gave me hope, Chuck! Hope that Carl Peterson may yet be on his way out! :thumb:

BigRedChief
01-18-2005, 09:47 AM
Am I the only one that noticed?

You gave me hope, Chuck! Hope that Carl Peterson may yet be on his way out! :thumb:

Scott Pioli has said that he's staying though thew end of his contract next year and then he would reevaluate his situation after next year.

DV and King Carl ride off into the sunset together after next year and Pioli comes into KC to start a new era. Hey, it's a possibility.:thumb:

bricks
01-18-2005, 09:51 AM
At least Peterson can see there is a problem. To bad he can't force a change.

If Peterson can't over-rule a "head coach". then, that goes to show something about this organization, doesn't it? He's not a leader, and definately not leading by example. he sees the problem so go fix it. F*ck what the coach says. I want Carl gone. He can't lead. That's THE main problem.

KCFalcon59
01-18-2005, 09:58 AM
Looks like San Diego is gonna win the west by default again. The rest of the teams will continue to suck.

PHOG
01-18-2005, 09:59 AM
I think we should all pray that G Rob asks Guinta to be his defensive coordinator at Syracuse. Oh, wouldn't that be too good to be true?

Thanks to a nutless CP ( %(/ ) and a clueless DV ( %(/ ) this may be the best we could hope for. :mad:

siberian khatru
01-18-2005, 09:59 AM
I'd really like to know if Carl thinks he has gotten what he thought he was getting in Vermeil.

Chiefnj
01-18-2005, 10:09 AM
I'd really like to know if Carl thinks he has gotten what he thought he was getting in Vermeil.

I think both men thought they would see eye-to-eye more often and when disagreements arise they are tougher to work out because of their past friendship.

philfree
01-18-2005, 10:12 AM
I'm glad my subtlety wasn't lost htismaqe.

Contrast Bill Parcells with DV. I pick up the sports page this morning and see where Parcells is trashing his assistant coaching staff. Two (IIRC) heads chopped and perhaps more to come.

DV on the other hand not only keeps his but is appearing to make excuses for them. Now Bill might or might not find better heads to replace those chopped but at least he sees a problem and is doing something about it. Is Dick?


IMO Parcells has done a shit job coaching the Cowboys so at this point I wouldn't hang my hat on anything he does or doesn't do. He's the biggest coaching disapointment of 2004 IMO.


PhilFree :arrow:

Mr. Laz
01-18-2005, 10:18 AM
i figured there wouldn't be much change this offseason


Vermeil "loyal to a fault" @ss won't change the coaches

peterson's greedy @ss won't change the players




pretty much the same team next year IMO





i imagine morton is gone because he made Trent Green look bad and that is a Sin in Vermeil's eyes.

Holliday will be gone because his contract was structure that way.

Barber might be gone because of injury

maz might be gone because of injury

Blaylock might be gone because priest and larry johnson will both still be here next year. Priest is Vermeil's guy, he's not going anywhere. Larry Johnson is Carl's guy, so he's not going anywhere.

That's it

1 wide receiver = filled by samie parker

1 RDE = filled by john Browning

1 OLB = ????

1 MLB = Maz has already been replaced

1 RB = ???

and whomever we draft


So 1 OLB, a backup RB and prolly 1 cornerback someplace, the rest of the team will be basically the same.

siberian khatru
01-18-2005, 10:24 AM
So 1 OLB, a backup RB and prolly 1 cornerback someplace, the rest of the team will be basically the same.

Q: Coach, as you retire now, for good, do you have any regrets in your five years here in KC?

A: Yes, I wish we'd gotten easier schedules.

Iowanian
01-18-2005, 10:25 AM
Keeping the secondary coaching staff is UNACCEPTABLE.

Dick........Those guys had better be "retiring".

bricks
01-18-2005, 10:26 AM
i figured there wouldn't be much change this offseason


Vermeil wouldn't change the coaches

peterson's greedy @ss won't change the players




pretty much the same team next year IMO





i imagine morton is gone because he made Trent Green look bad and that is a Sin in Vermeil's eyes.

Holliday will be gone because his contract was structure that way.

Barber might be gone because of injury

maz might be gone because of injury

Blaylock might be gone because priest and larry johnson will both still be here next year. Priest is Vermeil's guy, he's not going anywhere. Larry Johnson is Carl's guy, so he's not going anywhere.

That's it

1 wide receiver = filled by samie parker

1 RDE = filled by john Browning

1 OLB = ????

1 MLB = Maz has already been replaced

1 RB = ???

and whomever we draft


So 1 OLB, a backup RB and prolly 1 cornerback someplace, the rest of the team will be basically the same.

:hmmm: sounds pretty realistic in their eyes. The Chiefs, will probably used some excuse to cover that up.

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 11:21 AM
Guinta to the Orangemen is still a possibility...

Looks like Terry Shea might get his old job back...Jason Verduzco is going to the Cuse to work for Robinson...

siberian khatru
01-18-2005, 11:22 AM
Guinta to the Orangemen is still a possibility...


Wouldn't that be ironic -- GRob improving the Chiefs' D ...

go bowe
01-18-2005, 11:43 AM
The ****?!?! The only way a football coach is evaluated on MY staff is how they performed on their ****ing side of the ball. #31 out of 32 is slightly below ****ing average. Slightly.

I'm growing less fond of Dick Vermeil by the hour.just slightly?

i have a bad feeling about next year if they aren't gonna change some, if not all, of the defensive coaches except gun and the d-line coach...

go bowe
01-18-2005, 11:46 AM
I didn't get to that part before my head exploded.

If it were possible to be top 5 in the league in defense and offense and STILL go 7-9, Dick Vermeil would be talking about how his coaches were amongst the top ****ing 5 in the league instead of below average.

He is such a gunt. Wow, that pisses me off. Does he think people are really that stupid?apparently...

go bowe
01-18-2005, 11:47 AM
I swear to God the next time I see Dick Vermeil in public, rather than shaking his hand, I will kick him in the shins. Mark my words. I may chicken out at the last moment and make it appear as though it were an accident, but either way DICK VERMEIL WILL BE RUBBING HIS SHINS AND CRYING.he doesn't rub his shins now?

go bowe
01-18-2005, 11:49 AM
Yeah, this is really the only good part of the article I imagine in most people's minds...



I think it's pretty obvious what that means, hopefully they follow through. I think they will.yeah, and you're a blind homer...

worse, you're an optimistic blind homer... :p :p :p

ck_IN
01-18-2005, 11:52 AM
<i>IMO Parcells has done a shit job coaching the Cowboys so at this point I wouldn't hang my hat on anything he does or doesn't do. He's the biggest coaching disapointment of 2004 IMO.</i>

I wasn't commenting on his results. I was commenting on the fact that he sees a problem and is taking steps to solve it. It may turn out that he's the problem but at least he's moving to try and resolve things. DV is apparently oblivious to the problem.

Donger
01-18-2005, 11:57 AM
The handle is "Phobia", not Donger, dude. I have no hygiene issues.

Nor do I.

go bowe
01-18-2005, 11:57 AM
Man, I hope so. I can handle feeling like a dipshit.yeah, it's not like you don't have lots of practice... :D :D :D

go bowe
01-18-2005, 11:58 AM
Nor do I.what? did you make a new year's resolution to keep yourself clean this year?

go bowe
01-18-2005, 11:59 AM
So if we win the Super Bowl I won't feel any different?ROFL ROFL ROFL

ENDelt260
01-18-2005, 12:05 PM
I'd like the Chiefs to find a guy like Jack Del Rio.

I watched that preseason show about the Jaguars training camp on HBO and I think he's exactly what the Chiefs need. Smart off the field, tough on the field.
Let's try to keep the sharp objects away from the idiot kickers, tho.

Bowser
01-18-2005, 12:09 PM
Let's try to keep the sharp objects away from the idiot kickers, tho.

ROFL

I'm sure it wasn't funny when it happened. But, damn!!

The Bad Guy
01-18-2005, 12:10 PM
It should be a huge friggen red flag that Guinta has had Bartee and Battle at corner and NEITHER of them have gotten any better.

Vermeil is such a damn idiot. Martz had to drag old ass Bud Carson out of retirement to attempt to fix all of Guinta's screwups, but he helped win a SB ring so he's a god in Vermeil's eyes.

The KC media should get some balls and blast this organization at every turn. But they won't because the Chiefs run their organization like a big fish in a small pond.

Donger
01-18-2005, 12:12 PM
what? did you make a new year's resolution to keep yourself clean this year?

Nah. I was fooling around since the infamous (I guess) leg washing thread. IYRC, my brother had just had surgery and the doctors told him that he wouldn't be able to bend down to wash his legs, or some such sh*t.

Hence, the thread. But, no, I don't wash my legs every day. Probably every third day, on average.

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 12:13 PM
The KC media should get some balls and blast this organization at every turn. But they won't because the Chiefs run their organization like a big fish in a small pond.

It's inevitable. It's just like the Packers. The only pro sports competition is the freaking Royals...

go bowe
01-18-2005, 12:20 PM
Q: Coach, as you retire now, for good, do you have any regrets in your five years here in KC?

A: Yes, I wish we'd gotten easier schedules.ROFL ROFL ROFL

go bowe
01-18-2005, 12:25 PM
Nah. I was fooling around since the infamous (I guess) leg washing thread. IYRC, my brother had just had surgery and the doctors told him that he wouldn't be able to bend down to wash his legs, or some such sh*t.

Hence, the thread. But, no, I don't wash my legs every day. Probably every third day, on average.you know you'll never live down that leg washing thread, don't you? :D :D :D

The Bad Guy
01-18-2005, 12:25 PM
It's inevitable. It's just like the Packers. The only pro sports competition is the freaking Royals...

But they treat the media like scum if they say one bad thing about the Chiefs, which is why I think the media in KC is too light on the FO, Peterson and Vermeil.

Look at 810's relationship with Peterson as a prime example before Vermeil came along.

shaneo69
01-18-2005, 12:26 PM
The KC media should get some balls and blast this organization at every turn. But they won't because the Chiefs run their organization like a big fish in a small pond.

"We know from email and our surveys that readers of the official site of the Chiefs tend to be independent thinkers who resist the cynicism coming from the usual places. While they are generally disposed to display a pro-Chiefs stance, they still like to make up their minds and want clear, evidence-based articles and opinions that often times ignore what is appearing in the conventional media."

Donger
01-18-2005, 12:27 PM
you know you'll never live down that leg washing thread, don't you? :D :D :D

Heh. Probably not.

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 02:35 PM
But they treat the media like scum if they say one bad thing about the Chiefs, which is why I think the media in KC is too light on the FO, Peterson and Vermeil.

Look at 810's relationship with Peterson as a prime example before Vermeil came along.

I don't think the KC media is AT ALL "too light" on the Chiefs.

But I think the KK's and Jack Harry's make such stupid arguments that the average "informed" fan automatically dismisses them as assinine.

We need REAL, hard-nosed, and INFORMED media calling out the Chiefs. Petro would be just the guy, but for some reason he's pretty neutral when he's not defending Carl Peterson...

The Bad Guy
01-18-2005, 02:40 PM
I don't think the KC media is AT ALL "too light" on the Chiefs.

But I think the KK's and Jack Harry's make such stupid arguments that the average "informed" fan automatically dismisses them as assinine.

We need REAL, hard-nosed, and INFORMED media calling out the Chiefs. Petro would be just the guy, but for some reason he's pretty neutral when he's not defending Carl Peterson...

I think KC has a couple of tougha sses, but they are tough asses just to get ratings on the radio. They willl go against the grain just to be different.

Whitlock is the only one who will call a spade a spade.

I hope the Star grabs someone from Philly to come cover the Chiefs - that would cause Bob Moore and the rest of the PR spindoctors they have in the FO to have a heart attack.

We need someone to call Vermeil's bullshit when he starts talking about Peter Guinta and how tough the schedule is instead of a reporter that will gobble his knob just for 15 seconds of his time.

Frankie
01-18-2005, 03:02 PM
What's with this mentality that there is always only one thing wrong? Last year they thought it was the DC and NOT the players. This year they think it's only the players and NOT the coaches? Could a car have engine trouble AND flat tires too? FIX EVERYTHING DV!!

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 03:12 PM
I think KC has a couple of tougha sses, but they are tough asses just to get ratings on the radio. They willl go against the grain just to be different.

Whitlock is the only one who will call a spade a spade.

I hope the Star grabs someone from Philly to come cover the Chiefs - that would cause Bob Moore and the rest of the PR spindoctors they have in the FO to have a heart attack.

We need someone to call Vermeil's bullshit when he starts talking about Peter Guinta and how tough the schedule is instead of a reporter that will gobble his knob just for 15 seconds of his time.

Exactly.

Negative for negativity's sake. Not because it's warranted.

When it's warranted (Greg Robinson last year was a perfect example) they are SILENT.

DTLB58
01-18-2005, 03:34 PM
Yawn, another career day defense for 2005 :banghead: :mad: :cuss:

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 03:50 PM
We need someone to call Vermeil's bullshit when he starts talking about Peter Guinta and how tough the schedule is instead of a reporter that will gobble his knob just for 15 seconds of his time.

Please submit your application to the Star.

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 03:55 PM
I'm a homer by nature, but I agree. We've got to do something... anything. If they pull off a big FA move or two, at least I'll feel like they tried. This is really getting depressing. We'll see...
I am afraid that DV is loyal to a fault, and has thrown down the gauntlet to Carl.

Something like, if I can't have the coaches that I want, then I am the first to go.

Well, Dick, just go.

The Bad Guy
01-18-2005, 03:58 PM
Please submit your application to the Star.

I would gladly.

I just don't know how my fiancee would feel about living in KC.

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:11 PM
The handle is "Phobia", not Donger, dude. I have no hygiene issues.
ROFL ROFL ROFL

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:12 PM
Parcells, Walsh, Belichek... :hmmm:
If we could coax Walsh out of retirement, that might be interesting.

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:15 PM
yeah but if we traded our defense for theirs, we would be complaining about how old our defense is.


bah dum- pah....ching
It would still be an improvement. :shrug:

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:19 PM
I was very disappointed to hear this on the news this morning. My wife and I are this close >< to saying FU to Carl and Dick and not renew our season tickets.
Put the money into an IRA every year.

:thumb:

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:24 PM
Firing is too good for this gray haired old f#ck.

His complete lack of respect and accountability to and for this franchise, along with its fans, deserves a savage f#cking beating and a one way ticket back to his p#ssy a$$ ranch in PA.

He's done absolutely nothing for this organization.

And to think I was excited when he landed here. This f#ck is more worried about his "friends" on the coaching staff than winning a championship - its that simple. I'm glad that we've become a haven for the "limber dick club" of NFL coaches. It really makes me want to go out and pay even more cash for tickets and merchandise (sarcasm).

The sooner we get "Dick" and his loser buddy Carl out of this town, the better.

What a complete b!tch.
Well spoken. ROFL

suds79
01-18-2005, 04:24 PM
I was dissapointed in hearing this but I've about all given up on next year so I guess it doesn't hurt so much.

1st the Carl statement on giving the guys another year and now this with DV. Is there any doubt that our defense will be 25th or higher in the league next year? I really can't see it being any different.

DV is overrated and he's full of crap.

I remember when he 1st got here. "When you're 7-9 nobody's job is safe" and he cleaned house.

Now he has his guys in place an nobody's moving.

He'd rather play buddies rather than do what's best for the team. :bang: DV.

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:25 PM
OK fine Dick, then if this is the case, admit that you guys were dumbasses for sticking with Bartee and drafting Battle and go out and get new corners if these guys are such excellent coaches.



And here I was thinking that a coach is SUPPOSED to teach fundamentals and get his lessons across in a way where the guy won't be breaking down fundamentally time and time again. I guess this is an admission that this is the DUMBEST group of DB's in the history of the league too.



I'm sure he also wasn't responsible for the last place defense the Rams fielded the very next year either, once John Bunting left as the co-defensive coordinator. At least Martz had the balls to get rid of the guy.

All I know is this: in 1999 the Rams front office stepped in and forced Vermeil's hand to change his staff. Since Carl isn't doing the same thing here and forcing Vermeil's hand, it is ultimately Carl's responsibility. So Carl, you damn well better have the offseason of your life and get these brilliant coaches some players, otherwise you're gonna be sending your dream coach home with a broken legacy instead of riding off into the sunset...
Bros, I think the truth is DV is on the down low with all of his coaches. :shake:

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:27 PM
If after every loss you say that you as a coaching staff need to do a better job at coaching the players, well, who is the real problem?

Oh well, I can almost guarntee that the reason that DV doesn't want to make any changes is because he knows it is his last year here and doesn't think he would be able to get anyone good to come in here for what is basically a one year job.

Gunther and Carl need to step in and tell DV that they gave him a chance to do it, but they need to make the changes anyway.
Money can always make someone come here.

Calcountry
01-18-2005, 04:29 PM
I'm getting sick to DEATH of half-measures.

Two years ago we tried to fix this broke-ass defense by bringing in some new blood while keeping all the coaches. Didn't work.

Then we tried to fix it by bringing in a new DC while keeping all the old sorry players and assistant coaches. Didn't work.

It's time to fix blow this thing up and go for broke by letting Gunther pick his own assistants and players. GR had to use Vermeil's chosen assistants Gunther had to use Vermeil's chosen assistants, and it's not WORKING!

1 Year. Make or break.

There are plenty of good young minds out there that would be happy to take a shot under Gunther to make their reputation.
Agreed. Anyone who is taking a promotion will be willing to come in here for "just one year".

They need to find someone who is young, but is from a solid defensive family tree, and give him his shot.

RINGLEADER
01-18-2005, 05:04 PM
I'm now totally convinced that Dick Vermeil sees the defense as nothing more than an impediment to getting his "high-powered" offense on the field. I'm really starting to believe that this guy doesn't care if we stop the other team or not...

Deberg_1990
01-18-2005, 05:16 PM
Well, I certainly look forward to another 8-8 season again in 2005! Thanks for nothing DV! You have totally wasted one of the finest offense's and running games the NFL has ever seen for the past 3 years. If I were Priest, why the hell would i want to come back for this Sh9t???

Count Zarth
01-18-2005, 05:19 PM
Can someone start www.firedickvermeil.com already?

OldTownChief
01-18-2005, 05:25 PM
We need all new young blood in the organization from Hunt on down. When that happenes I could stomach a few "rebuilding years" **** these old bastards.

Mr. Laz
01-18-2005, 05:35 PM
We need REAL, hard-nosed, and INFORMED media calling out the Chiefs. Petro would be just the guy, but for some reason he's pretty neutral when he's not defending Carl Peterson...

:hmmm:


pretty neutral WHEN HE'S NOT defending carl peterson




you just like him because he tells the masse to not overreact about EVERYTHING.

if everyone's happy ... he says don't be too happy

if everyone's is pissed ... he says don't be too pissed



he's just like you ... a contrarian :)



he's so busy trying to delute whatever feeling is going on that he's worthless.

CHIEF4EVER
01-18-2005, 05:59 PM
Do you seriously believe an undrafted rookie and a WR can cover as well as Bartee? Nothing on that entire Patriot team relies exclusively on individual talent.

I believe my dog Casey can cover as well....wait, correction, BETTER than Burntee. :p

htismaqe
01-18-2005, 06:17 PM
:hmmm:

pretty neutral WHEN HE'S NOT defending carl peterson

you just like him because he tells the masse to not overreact about EVERYTHING.

if everyone's happy ... he says don't be too happy

if everyone's is pissed ... he says don't be too pissed

he's just like you ... a contrarian :)

he's so busy trying to delute whatever feeling is going on that he's worthless.

He's also the most well-researched, well-read, informed, and intelligent sports personality in KC, IMO. And in the end, I think that's why I like him, and why I identify with him.

When it gets right down to it, that's the reason he's neutral. A good amount of research leads one inevitably the fact that reality is neither black nor white...extremes (of opinion) are generally arrived at emotionally, not rationally...it's true of life in general and it's true of the Kansas City Chiefs.

In the team's present state, every fan has the right to be upset, and should take every opportunity to let the team know about it. Unfortunately, they've been so overly vocal about things that weren't real problems with the team (running Greg Robinson out on a rail and ignoring the fact we had no talent) that nobody cares to listen anymore...it's like the little boy who cried "wolf".

Frankie
01-19-2005, 09:46 AM
How's about we call GRob and ask him to hire Giunta for his DC?

go bowe
01-19-2005, 11:48 AM
I believe my dog Casey can cover as well....wait, correction, BETTER than Burntee. :pahhhhhhh...

but did he play safety in college?

go bowe
01-19-2005, 11:52 AM
How's about we call GRob and ask him to hire Giunta for his DC?that might work... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

besides isn't guinta one of dv's boys?

i would think he would want his own buddies around him...

but it would be nice to get rid of guinta any way we can...

Frankie
01-19-2005, 02:15 PM
Well GRob has already raided DV's staff for his OC. Might as well grab Giunta for DC. Sweet... no?

go bowe
01-19-2005, 02:17 PM
Well GRob has already raided DV's staff for his OC. Might as well grab Giunta for DC. Sweet... no?just about anything that results in getting rid of guinta would be sweet...

HC_Chief
01-19-2005, 02:18 PM
We should simply fire Vermeil.

Experiment ended... Dick = failure who refuses to make the moves necessary to improve.

htismaqe
01-19-2005, 02:38 PM
We should simply fire Vermeil.

Experiment ended... Dick = failure who refuses to make the moves necessary to improve.

Yep.

HC_Chief
01-19-2005, 02:40 PM
If it were to happen (not outside the realm of possibility), do we give Saunders a one-year shot at it, or scrap and bring in a whole new staff?

go bowe
01-19-2005, 02:57 PM
If it were to happen (not outside the realm of possibility), do we give Saunders a one-year shot at it, or scrap and bring in a whole new staff?i'd like to see al have a shot at it at least once, while the o is still intact (or nearly so)...

he should keep gun, thought and let him bring in his own defensive coaches and have control over fa acquistions and drafting defensive players...

other teams have turned around their defense in one season, maybe we can do it too...

but i doubt it will happen while carl is still here...

htismaqe
01-19-2005, 03:01 PM
If it were to happen (not outside the realm of possibility), do we give Saunders a one-year shot at it, or scrap and bring in a whole new staff?

Holthus said two weeks ago that he wouldn't be at all surprised if this deal with the coaching changes comes down to Carl saying "we will" and DV retires.

Given that all these guys are under contract, I'd say it's a 100% guarantee that Saunders becomes HC.

In fact, given our luck as fans, I'm sure Saunders would be promoted to interim HC and given a 3-year extension to line his contract up with Carl Peterson's new 3-year extension. :cuss:

Frankie
01-19-2005, 03:15 PM
Holthus said two weeks ago that he wouldn't be at all surprised if this deal with the coaching changes comes down to Carl saying "we will" and DV retires.

Given that all these guys are under contract, I'd say it's a 100% guarantee that Saunders becomes HC.

In fact, given our luck as fans, I'm sure Saunders would be promoted to interim HC and given a 3-year extension to line his contract up with Carl Peterson's new 3-year extension. :cuss:

I'm one who is actually comfortable with that. Provided Gunther is not dissed. I love to keep our 'O' staff intact. ESPECIALLY SOLARI.

BigChiefFan
01-19-2005, 04:00 PM
If Jason V leaves, I would ask Shea to take over the QB coaching instead of the TEs coach.