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the Talking Can
02-01-2005, 06:44 PM
ha-ha funny or o-shit funny? (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-cia1feb01,1,4146281.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true)

THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ
CIA Corrects Itself on Arms
# A report, the first of its kind, says Baghdad ended its chemical weapons program in '91.


By Greg Miller, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON ó In what may be a formal acknowledgment of the obvious, the CIA has issued a classified report revising its prewar assessments on Iraq and concluding that Baghdad abandoned its chemical weapons programs in 1991, intelligence officials familiar with the document said.

The report marks the first time the CIA has officially disavowed its prewar judgments and is one in a series of updated assessments the agency is producing as part of an effort to correct its record on Iraq's alleged weapons programs, officials said.

The CIA's decision to distribute the report ó titled "Iraq: No Large-Scale Chemical Warfare Efforts Since Early 1990s" ó in classified channels underscores the awkwardness the agency faces as it continues to reconcile its prewar reporting with postwar realities in Iraq. Before the war, the CIA asserted that Iraq had stockpiled biological weapons and was reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.

A U.S. intelligence official said the document was "not a high-level report," meaning it was designed to supplant outdated assessments still on classified computer networks and was not meant to be called to the attention of President Bush or other senior government officials.

"It's basically updating the books," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, "so the information on the shelf is the most current."

Current and former intelligence officials described it as a highly unusual step for the CIA.

"It's stunning that they would actually put on paper a reversal" of previous intelligence estimates, said one intelligence official who had seen the document.

Richard J. Kerr, a former senior CIA official who was hired by the agency last year to conduct an internal review of its prewar analysis, said he couldn't recall the agency ever issuing such a revisionist report on any subject.

"But the situation is rather unique," Kerr said, noting that Iraq's postwar reality had made the agency's failings obvious. "Ordinarily, you're never proven wrong in a clean, neat way."

The report is based largely on findings by the Iraq Survey Group, a CIA-led team of weapons experts that searched the country for more than a year without finding clear evidence of active illegal weapons programs.

U.S. intelligence officials have long acknowledged that the prewar assessments were flawed. David Kay, the former head of the search team, told Congress last January, "We were almost all wrong."

But other officials' statements have been more qualified. In a speech at Georgetown University last February, then-CIA Director George J. Tenet said that "when the facts of Iraq are all in, we will neither be completely right nor completely wrong."

The new report from the CIA, which is dated Jan. 18, retreats from the agency's prewar assertions on chemical weapons on almost every front. It concludes that "Iraq probably did not pursue chemical warfare efforts after 1991."

The report notes that its new conclusions "vary significantly" from prewar judgments "largely because of subsequent events and direct access to Iraqi officials, scientists, facilities and documents."

A note in the report describes the document as the second in a "retrospective series that addresses our post-Operation Iraqi Freedom understanding of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and delivery system programs."

A Jan. 4 report focused on Scud missiles and other delivery systems. Intelligence officials said future reports would revise the agency's claims that Iraq had stockpiles of biological weapons and was rebuilding its nuclear weapons program. Those allegations were a centerpiece of the Bush administration's case for war with Iraq.

KCWolfman
02-01-2005, 06:49 PM
Are some of you still crying about no WMDs?

memyselfI
02-01-2005, 07:04 PM
Better stock up on the barf bags cuz revisionist history has begun. Pretty soon the story will be the Iraq effort was ALWAYS for democracy and the whole WMD thing will be a distant memory.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20050201/wl_nm/iraq_cia_dc


CIA Rectifying Prewar Estimates on Iraq WMD

2 hours, 15 minutes ago World - Reuters



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The CIA (news - web sites) is publishing a series of classified reports revising its prewar intelligence assessments of Iraq (news - web sites)'s weapons of mass destruction, an intelligence official said on Tuesday.

A Jan. 18 report, titled "Iraq: No Large-Scale Chemical Warfare Efforts Since Early 1990s," concludes that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) abandoned major chemical weapons programs after the first Gulf War (news - web sites) in 1991.


A Jan. 4 CIA report addressed Baghdad's Scud missile and delivery system, while forthcoming reports are expected to revise prewar estimates of Iraq's biological and nuclear capabilities.


The intelligence official, who asked not to be named, said the latest report was not considered a high-level document for review by President Bush (news - web sites).


"This matches up what the assessment was before the war and what the assessment is after the war," the official said. "It takes into account post-war information that was, by definition, not available earlier."


U.S. intelligence claims that Iraq possessed large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and was attempting to acquire nuclear capability formed a main justification for the 2003 invasion.


Former CIA Director George Tenet, who resigned last July, told Bush that finding WMD in Iraq would be a "slam dunk" according to journalist Bob Woodward's book "Plan of Attack."


But no WMD have been found in Iraq and U.S. weapons inspector Charles Duelfer is expected this month to issue a final addendum to his September report concluding that prewar Iraq had no such stockpiles.


"The CIA has finally admitted that its WMD estimates were wrong," Rep. Jane Harman (news, bio, voting record) of California, ranking Democrat on the House intelligence committee, said in a statement.


She also called on CIA officials to conduct a vigorous review of intelligence on Iran and North Korea (news - web sites), "where active WMD programs are known to exist."


Bush has branded prewar Iraq, Iran and North Korea as an "axis of evil."


The United States contends that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons.


Tehran denies the charge. But Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites), a main proponent of the Iraq war, stirred concern about possible military action against Iran recently by saying the country tops the administration list of world trouble spots.


The Bush administration is engaged in six-party talks with North Korea, which U.S. officials say could have more than eight nuclear weapons.

Cochise
02-01-2005, 07:13 PM
Better stock up on the barf bags cuz revisionist history has begun. Pretty soon the story will be the Iraq effort was ALWAYS for democracy and the whole WMD thing will be a distant memory.

Kind of like how liberal academia has revised the civil war to have been about freeing the slaves?

RINGLEADER
02-01-2005, 07:39 PM
Actually I heard that the revisions were based largely on Dulfur's report from about three or four months ago.

Old news is good news for Dems...

bkkcoh
02-01-2005, 07:58 PM
Actually I heard that the revisions were based largely on Dulfur's report from about three or four months ago.

Old news is good news for Dems...


Not to mention, bad news is good news for the democrats.

Bearcat2005
02-01-2005, 07:59 PM
Not to mention, bad news is good news for the democrats.
ROFL

2bikemike
02-01-2005, 08:44 PM
Wow I guess Clinton had it wrong for 8 years too.

Pitt Gorilla
02-01-2005, 09:20 PM
Wow I guess Clinton had it wrong for 8 years too.Probably, but I guess I don't see your point. Two wrongs make a right?

jAZ
02-01-2005, 09:41 PM
There will still be legions of Chiefs Planet members who swear that Saddam had his WMD, he just moved them to Syria before we invaded.

2bikemike
02-01-2005, 09:44 PM
Probably, but I guess I don't see your point. Two wrongs make a right?

Nah just pointing it out to the Bush bashers. Personally if this is not a 20/20 hindsight somebody needs their balls cut off and fed to them.

bkkcoh
02-01-2005, 09:59 PM
Wow I guess Clinton had it wrong for 8 years too.


If this is truly the case, I wonder why more head haven't been lost at the CIA? If nothing else, someone would have to take the fall for the mi-information and aren't they the one who supplied the information? :hmmm:

2bikemike
02-01-2005, 10:26 PM
If this is truly the case, I wonder why more head haven't been lost at the CIA? If nothing else, someone would have to take the fall for the mi-information and aren't they the one who supplied the information? :hmmm:

Not to mention all the other intelligence agencies across the world who had it wrong as well. The UN who levied sanctions for 12 years for failure to comply to the resolutions.

DenverChief
02-02-2005, 12:19 AM
Kind of like how liberal academia has revised the civil war to have been about freeing the slaves?

I thought it was about saving the Union? What school did you go to? ;)

NewChief
02-02-2005, 04:27 AM
Are some of you still crying about no WMDs?

Heck no! The ends justify the means, baby. Democracy for everyone. Who is next? Syria? Bring it on! Iran? Bring it on! China? Bring it on! I won't be happy until I see people in every country getting their day to vote. Let Freedom Ring! Let the Eagle Soar!!!

Radar Chief
02-02-2005, 06:24 AM
There will still be legions of Chiefs Planet members who swear that Saddam had his WMD, he just moved them to Syria before we invaded.

Just out of curiosity, since you guys have your crystal balls warmed up and all, whereíd all this stuff go? Itís still missing ya know, and this isnít even the full extent of whatís missing just the most prominent stuff.

when you take away all the hyperbole, we are still left with all these things missing. (http://www.desert-voice.net/what_is_missing.htm)

Chemical: What happened to 3.9 tons of VX chemical agent? Experts either want proof of its destruction or its location. The Iraqis have told different stories over the years, but ultimately admitted prior to 1998 that they had produced that much VX and had stabilized it. Iraq has claimed the documentation on the destruction was lost or destroyed by coalition bombing, but the inspectors do not believe the Iraqis, noting that officials made seven copies of every program document, each for a different archive.
The Iraqis also claim that after 10 years, the VX would be destabilized even if it did exist. The inspectors say that once VX is stabilized ó and the Iraqis admit they were able to stabilize it ó it can remain effective for up to 100 years. Iraq has also denied it had weaponized VX for missile warheads, but tests conducted by an earlier weapons inspection team proved otherwise. In addition, the United Nations is seeking information on 6,000 aerial bombs filled with chemical weapons and 550 artillery shells filled with mustard gas.

Biological weapons: U.N. experts either want proof of destruction or the location of 17 tons of biological growth media needed for growing the biological agents for weaponry. The missing growth media represent half of what inspectors believe was imported by Iraq. The inspectors also want information on 15 missile warheads filled with biological agents and 157 aerial bombs believed to be filled with biological agents.

Missiles: U.N. experts either want proof of destruction or the location of Scud-type missiles. Estimates of these weapons are based in part on what Iraq did with 845 Scud missiles it imported from the Soviet Union, some of which were fired during the Iran-Iraq and Gulf Wars, and some of which were converted to longer-range missiles.
What concerns the inspectors is that Iraq developed its own missile design based on Scud and Condor missile technology. They now believe that Iraq actually built missiles based on that design but they cannot locate the weapons. The Condor missile was an Argentine-Egyptian-Iraqi program whose technology was far superior to the Scuds. Iraq said it had only tested the missile, but the inspectors believe Iraq has deployed it. Estimates vary greatly on how many missiles may be missing. U.N. experts believe there are around seven, the CIA estimates there are two to 12 and Israel believes there are up to 70. The weapons inspectors also are interested in 50 conventional missile warheads and 500-plus tons of missile fuel.

Nuclear: The International Atomic Energy Agency, which has responsibility for nuclear weapons inspections, wants Iraq to provide some key information: documentation related to Iraqís nuclear weapons design program and details on foreign sources of assistance. The inspectors fear that Iraq may have either continued to pay foreigners who helped assist their program, or sent its own scientists abroad to work with those who provided assistance, and that when sanctions are listed, the scientists could easily restart their programs. Still, the nuclear agency has long said it ďfound no indication of Iraq having achieved its program goal of producing nuclear weapons, or of Iraq having retained a physical capability for the production of weapon-useable nuclear material or having clandestinely obtained such material.Ē

mlyonsd
02-02-2005, 06:41 AM
Makes you wonder why Saddam didn't just save himself by pointing out where the weapons went doesn't it?

Three possibilities I can think of:

1) Either he didn't dare because they really did still exist somewhere.

2) They were actually destroyed and he didn't want the rest of the Arab world to know he had backed down.

3) He was a moronic lunatic that believed Bush would buckle to world pressure and back off.

Radar Chief
02-02-2005, 08:05 AM
Makes you wonder why Saddam didn't just save himself by pointing out where the weapons went doesn't it?

Three possibilities I can think of:

1) Either he didn't dare because they really did still exist somewhere.

2) They were actually destroyed and he didn't want the rest of the Arab world to know he had backed down.

3) He was a moronic lunatic that believed Bush would buckle to world pressure and back off.

If he actually did destroy all of those things still unaccounted for and expected the bluff of there presence to keep us from taking him out, itíd be one of the stupidest moves of all time and I just donít see Saddam being that dumb.

Cochise
02-02-2005, 08:09 AM
If he actually did destroy all of those things still unaccounted for and expected the bluff of there presence to keep us from taking him out, itíd be one of the stupidest moves of all time and I just donít see Saddam being that dumb.

I dont know if I agree there. I've seen a documentary or two about the first Gulf War, and by all accounts he actually thought he was going to defeat the Americans.

Radar Chief
02-02-2005, 08:11 AM
I dont know if I agree there. I've seen a documentary or two about the first Gulf War, and by all accounts he actually thought he was going to defeat the Americans.

Course he probably got that idea from watching CNN. ;)

Cochise
02-02-2005, 08:32 AM
Course he probably got that idea from watching CNN. ;)

buh dum TISH ROFL

If he could still watch CNN, he'd probably think he did win this time around :banghead:

DenverChief
02-02-2005, 11:18 AM
Just out of curiosity, since you guys have your crystal balls warmed up and all, whereíd all this stuff go? Itís still missing ya know, and this isnít even the full extent of whatís missing just the most prominent stuff.

when you take away all the hyperbole, we are still left with all these things missing. (http://www.desert-voice.net/what_is_missing.htm)

if that wasn't a home-made site....it might be more believeable


http://www.desert-voice.net/what_is_missing.htm

DenverChief
02-02-2005, 11:20 AM
Heck no! The ends justify the means, baby. Democracy for everyone. Who is next? Syria? Bring it on! Iran? Bring it on! China? Bring it on! I won't be happy until I see people in every country getting their day to vote. Let Freedom Ring! Let the Eagle Soar!!!ROFL:thumb:

Brock
02-02-2005, 11:24 AM
I don't remember anyone shouting bullshit when Clinton said it.

Radar Chief
02-02-2005, 11:56 AM
if that wasn't a home-made site....it might be more believeable


http://www.desert-voice.net/what_is_missing.htm

ROFL Well, at least you posted relevant information discrediting that link.
BTW, thatís all information taken from UNSCom. When I get back from my next meeting Iíll post the UN link, if youíll believe it that is.

Radar Chief
02-02-2005, 12:07 PM
ROFL Well, at least you posted relevant information discrediting that link.
BTW, thatís all information taken from UNSCom. When I get back from my next meeting Iíll post the UN link, if youíll believe it that is.

Howís Ďbout this one? Itís directly referencing UNSCom. Believe it?
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/leitenberg.html

Thing that cracks me up Ďbout this is itís public information, anyone that actually wanted to look can find it. Why so doubtful DC? Itís not like this is some closely held secret, unless you just donít want to know Ďbout it. :hmmm:

RINGLEADER
02-02-2005, 12:22 PM
There will still be legions of Chiefs Planet members who swear that Saddam had his WMD, he just moved them to Syria before we invaded.


It's possible, but I don't think so. It should be noted that a lot of WMDs that Saddam never reconciled in his various declarations in late 2002 still haven't been accounted for.

What I do know is that he'll never have them again, be able to create more or be able to use them again.

Rausch
02-02-2005, 12:27 PM
There will still be legions of Chiefs Planet members who swear that Saddam had his WMD, he just moved them to Syria before we invaded.

Oh, I think it's more than possible. But I'm not going to go around stating it as fact until proven.

Numerous Iraqi scientists noted that they were to hide weapons plans and basic electronics to start rebuilding these programs once inspections were done.

They just never got the chance.

There were enough good reasons to go into Iraq, even if one of the biggest was proven wrong.

Chief Henry
02-02-2005, 03:06 PM
Wow I guess Clinton had it wrong for 8 years too.


So did ALgore and Madeline ALbright and John Kerry and Tom Dashole
among others.... :harumph:

Chief Henry
02-02-2005, 03:09 PM
Course he probably got that idea from watching CNN. ;)
ROFL

KCWolfman
02-02-2005, 06:14 PM
Heck no! The ends justify the means, baby. Democracy for everyone. Who is next? Syria? Bring it on! Iran? Bring it on! China? Bring it on! I won't be happy until I see people in every country getting their day to vote. Let Freedom Ring! Let the Eagle Soar!!!
You forgot Somalia and Bosnia, well at least Bosnia since Somalia became so f*cked up, eh?

KCWolfman
02-02-2005, 06:15 PM
There will still be legions of Chiefs Planet members who swear that Saddam had his WMD, he just moved them to Syria before we invaded.
And there will be swarms of Dunderground people like yourself that don't care what happened to all those catalogued orders and will pretend they just disappeared one day.

SBK
02-02-2005, 06:35 PM
And there will be swarms of Dunderground people like yourself that don't care what happened to all those catalogued orders and will pretend they just disappeared one day.

Disappeared, no. NEVER EXISTED. ROFL