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shaneo69
02-03-2005, 08:38 AM
I guess he's once again telling us that if Carl drafts busts, our team will suck and we must sit back and enjoy it.

DAWES: You Might Have Missed It
Feb 03, 2005, 1:28:33 AM by Media Watch by Rufus Dawes

The Pittsburgh Steelers are at it again following a model they and other successful NFL teams originated back when free agency was supposed to change the way the league works. Hardly noticeable, to all but a few general mangers that is and a dedicated blogger like me, the Steelers are apparently prepared to say good-bye to Keydrick Vincent, who started 27 games at left and right guard the past two seasons. The Steelers finished second in the NFL in average rushing yards per game (154) in 2004.

Now the loss of a starting guard on the surface doesn’t signal anything significant and to tell the truth Vincent isn’t gone yet. Free agency doesn’t begin until March 2. But if Vincent does depart he will follow a long line of starters who, upon becoming free agents, the Steelers have parted ways with when the price for keeping them became too high. “They don’t have plans for me,” Vincent admitted after talking to team officials late last month. (Jerry DiPaola, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, January 28, 2005)

If Vincent leaves as he expects, he will join Rod Woodson, Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Neil O’Donnell, Charles Johnson, Carnell Lake, Dewayne Washington, Carlos Emmons, Orpheus Roye, Mike Vrabel, Earl Holmes, and Wayne Gandy among others who were all starters on successful Steelers teams through the years but that the franchise never missed when they left via free agency. Like the New England Patriots and Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh has a distinctly different way of building a team that doesn’t fit the popular public or media perception. No one could accuse Pittsburgh of being a major player in free agency and the Patriots have taken a similar approach. Meanwhile, the Eagles did become more active this year picking up Jevon Kearse in free agency, but that move overshadowed the departure of starting cornerbacks Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor.

Today’s winning franchises look to re-sign players they believe are worth it; they look to replace others from within first and then try other means. They know the value of players currently on their team, look for players who fit their system, and work behind the scenes to acquire them through the draft or, in the case of New England, by waiting until the later stages of free agency and picking up bargain players – ones who are companion pieces, not marquee talent. The Patriots have only two players who count more than $5 million against the salary cap and rank no better than 25th in the NFL in average annual payroll. (paid as opposed to cap computations)

Pittsburgh has always built from within. Kendall Simmons, the Steelers’ 2002 first-round draft pick, who is coming off an injury, will likely take Vincent’s place next season. Moves like this too often escape notice. In their place, we get urgings such as this one:

“Please, Bill Polian (Indianapolis general manager). Legions of Colts fans would rather have you spend money on importing (my italics) than keeping Edgerrin James.” (SI.com, January 24, 2005).

Understanding and problem solving are obscured when fashionable opinion conforms to pieties like free agency is the way to go. A small matter like Keydrick Vincent’s possible departure may be useful in breaking up the smug certainty that unless the Chiefs move quickly in free agency in 2005 all is lost. Or so I would hope.

htismaqe
02-03-2005, 08:42 AM
For the most part, he's right.

But he completely ignores that fact that the "Patriot/Steeler" method HASN'T WORKED FOR US.

Chiefnj
02-03-2005, 08:44 AM
There have been a couple of articles coming from kcchiefs.com supporting the "build from within" mantra. I'm all for it, if the team could draft and develop its own talent. You can't use the Pats, Eagles and Steelers as a model when you aren't developing your draft picks. Well, you can, but you end up with the 32 defense and the career day defense.

BigRedChief
02-03-2005, 08:46 AM
For the most part, he's right.

But he completely ignores that fact that the "Patriot/Steeler" method HASN'T WORKED FOR US.

King Carl is no Scott Pioli.

BigChiefFan
02-03-2005, 08:47 AM
For the most part, he's right.

But he completely ignores that fact that the "Patriot/Steeler" method HASN'T WORKED FOR US.
Comparing us to the Patriots in the first place is a joke. They were coming off a Super Bowl and and what did they do? Did they stand pat? No, they went out and TRADED for one of the best HBs in the league. We chose to re-sign the same scrubs that made up one of the worst defenses 3 years running (4 years now). Also, both teams have been to the Super Bowl in the last 15 years. I don't seem to recall King Carl getting the Chiefs to the Super Bowl. The Chiefs PR department is a bunch of windbags, who have an excuse for everything. I've never heard so many excuses in all my life.

htismaqe
02-03-2005, 08:49 AM
King Carl is no Scott Pioli.

That's what it boils down to.

If this staff could draft WORTH A SHIT, we'd be ok now...

siberian khatru
02-03-2005, 08:53 AM
For the most part, he's right.

But he completely ignores that fact that the "Patriot/Steeler" method HASN'T WORKED FOR US.

Because it's not about which philosophy works best. Regardless of which path you take, YOU STILL HAVE TO EVALUATE TALENT. Which this organization has been doing poorly for some time.

htismaqe
02-03-2005, 08:54 AM
Because it's not about which philosophy works best. Regardless of which path you take, YOU STILL HAVE TO EVALUATE TALENT. Which this organization has been doing poorly for some time.

True.

siberian khatru
02-03-2005, 08:55 AM
True.

You pretty much covered it in Post #6 while I was typing. :)

BigRedChief
02-03-2005, 08:55 AM
Look at our second rounders, freeman, mitchell, cloud etc the list goes on and on. If we can get Surtain for a 2nd rounder the deal should have already been done.

Chiefnj
02-03-2005, 09:03 AM
That's what it boils down to.

If this staff could draft WORTH A SHIT, we'd be ok now...

Do you think it is primarily the draft coming up short, or the development? For instance, I found that scouting report on Keyaron Fox and posted it yesterday. He seemed like he could be a very good linebacker and make an impact his first year. In reality he didn't even step on the field when our 2nd and 3rd LBs were banged up.

Iowanian
02-03-2005, 09:04 AM
Titus, this article wouldn't be too bad.............If the Chiefs Scouting and personell dept had done a better job in the draft, and where The teams mentioned in this article HAVE let starters Go in favor of their depth.......The Chiefs Chose to RESIGN most of the scrubs that were starting already.

htismaqe
02-03-2005, 09:12 AM
Do you think it is primarily the draft coming up short, or the development? For instance, I found that scouting report on Keyaron Fox and posted it yesterday. He seemed like he could be a very good linebacker and make an impact his first year. In reality he didn't even step on the field when our 2nd and 3rd LBs were banged up.

I honestly think it's both.

1) They pick guys that NEED development (according to pre-draft scouts) and then don't develop them -- Battle and Mitchell come to mind.

2) They pick guys that appear to be ready (according to pre-draft scouts) and then simply don't play them -- Johnson and Fox come to mind.

NewChief
02-03-2005, 09:18 AM
Hardly noticeable, to all but a few general mangers that is and a dedicated blogger like me, the Steelers are apparently prepared to say good-bye to Keydrick Vincent, who started 27 games at left and right guard the past two seasons. The Steelers finished second in the NFL in average rushing yards per game (154) in 2004.


The Chiefs, on the other hand, will be clinging for dear life to such defensive standouts as William Bartee.

Otter
02-03-2005, 09:24 AM
Titus, could you hook me up with a free Chiefs T-Shirt?

whoman69
02-03-2005, 09:53 AM
Pittsburg can afford to build from within because they can draft. The Chiefs only starter drafted by the current coach is Kawika Mitchell. He doesn't exactly emit images of past Chiefs MLBs, maybe Cardinals MLBs. If you can judge talent then you can build from within. We have way too many reaches, tweeners and busts.

jspchief
02-03-2005, 09:59 AM
The Chiefs, on the other hand, will be clinging for dear life to such defensive standouts as William Bartee.

Exactly my thoughts....rep.

The Bad Guy
02-03-2005, 10:31 AM
The Chiefs employ these writers to spin their failures and point to models of successful teams and say "we are trying to emulate them."

Nice try, Rufus. But the Chiefs aren't the Steelers or the Patriots.

Calcountry
02-03-2005, 10:42 AM
For the most part, he's right.

But he completely ignores that fact that the "Patriot/Steeler" method HASN'T WORKED FOR US.That is because strategy is worthless without successful talent evaluation.

Talent evaluation="worth it"

Calcountry
02-03-2005, 10:43 AM
That's what it boils down to.

If this staff could draft WORTH A SHIT, we'd be ok now...Better trade down, the pressure of that number one pick not panning out is just too great. :eek:

htismaqe
02-03-2005, 10:46 AM
Better trade down, the pressure of that number one pick not panning out is just too great. :eek:

Yeah, trade down into the 2nd...at least there, the expectation is that he will be a GUARANTEED BUST. :D

Mr. Laz
02-03-2005, 11:37 AM
That is because strategy is worthless without successful talent evaluation.

Talent evaluation="worth it"

there it is...


if you evaluate talent properly you can have success either way


evaluate free agents properly and you can fill the holes you need to


evaluate draftees properly and you can avoid alot of big spending in free agency.




thus our problem = whomever is doing the talent evaluation for the chiefs sucks ... and it shows in FA and the draft.

Mr. Laz
02-03-2005, 11:38 AM
Better trade down, the pressure of that number one pick not panning out is just too great. :eek:

you joke, but i think Carl DOES think this way

htismaqe
02-03-2005, 12:18 PM
you joke, but i think Carl DOES think this way

I think it comes more from Crybaby Vermeil than from Carl.

The drafts have always been suspect, but it's been different in recent years.

kc rush
02-03-2005, 03:14 PM
DAWES: You Might Have Missed It
Feb 03, 2005, 1:28:33 AM by Media Watch by Rufus Dawes

Today’s winning franchises look to re-sign players they believe are worth it; they look to replace others from within first and then try other means.

Yeah, that worked well.


They know the value of players currently on their team...


Apparently they don't.

Mr. Laz
02-03-2005, 03:48 PM
I think it comes more from Crybaby Vermeil than from Carl.

The drafts have always been suspect, but it's been different in recent years.

i don't know ... you and petro seem to love to push all the blame on the short-timer Dick Vermeil, but most of the things we are doing have been done for a long time ... before Vermeil got here.

htismaqe
02-03-2005, 03:55 PM
i don't know ... you and petro seem to love to push all the blame on the short-timer Dick Vermeil, but most of the things we are doing have been done for a long time ... before Vermeil got here.

Not necessarily.

I think we can look at our drafts and see that the coaches had an awful lot of say in who we got -- there's a definite difference in our draft boards under Marty and the ones we've had under Vermeil.

Marty's drafts seemed to have a purpose. We were either trying to find a real RB (or QB) or drafting defense.

With Vermeil, the drafts have been inexplicably spastic and sometimes downright desperate.

I'm not saying Carl deserves no blame, after all it was him who hired Vermeil.

Mr. Laz
02-03-2005, 03:58 PM
Not necessarily.

I think we can look at our drafts and see that the coaches had an awful lot of say in who we got -- there's a definite difference in our draft boards under Marty and the ones we've had under Vermeil.

Marty's drafts seemed to have a purpose. We were either trying to find a real RB (or QB) or drafting defense.

With Vermeil, the drafts have been inexplicably spastic and sometimes downright desperate.

I'm not saying Carl deserves no blame, after all it was him who hired Vermeil.

this is true ... the drafts definately have gotten more "freaked out" in recent years.

i don't know whether that is the coaching staff or whether it because we have 2 guys in charge(vermeil/peterson) and they are tugging back and forth making decisions.


but talent evaluation has pretty much been total crap since Marty left.


before AND after Vermeil got here

Dave Lane
02-03-2005, 05:42 PM
For the most part, he's right.

But he completely ignores that fact that the "Patriot/Steeler" method HASN'T WORKED FOR US.

No he is completely wrong because we have no scouting department / personnel evaluation that is even close to reality. We could fugg up a wet dream in this department. Therefore we let good players go and keep non perfomers like they were pro-bowlers for life.

Dave

htismaqe
02-04-2005, 07:43 AM
No he is completely wrong because we have no scouting department / personnel evaluation that is even close to reality. We could fugg up a wet dream in this department. Therefore we let good players go and keep non perfomers like they were pro-bowlers for life.

Dave

No, he's not completely wrong. GREAT teams build from within. That's what we've tried to do.

Unfortunately, we've been unsuccessful because our personnel people STINK.

But he's absolutely right - great teams build from within...

Manila-Chief
02-04-2005, 08:01 AM
Pittsburg can afford to build from within because they can draft. ... If you can judge talent then you can build from within. We have way too many reaches, tweeners and busts.

Very TRUE!!!! Especially the "reaches, tweeners and busts." And, these are our first day drafts....