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Ugly Duck
11-30-2000, 09:09 AM
Ok, DiscoJones made a statement in another thread which basically said that the Raiders were 'right' for firing Shanahan, Gruden is the better coach and will have more SBs when it's all said and done.

I think Gruden is a good coach, and I know that DJ is a homer... so am I, but there's no way to compare the two right now. Gruden hasn't done jack with them yet... other than keep them from fading so far.

In time, possibly DJ's statements may ring true. Obviously, you know where I stand.

What are your thoughts?

Baby Lee
11-30-2000, 09:15 AM
It's hard to make a fair comparison. Gannon, Wheatley, Brown & Dudley are a far cry from Elway, Davis, R. Smith & Sharpe.

Now, raiderfans, before you jump all over this post, let it be known that Brown is a better receiver than Smith, but the group as a whole is less talented. Plus, the Rat always has a pretty good O-line, unlike chucky.

Now, if they had equal talent, that would be a better measuring stick.

Ugly Duck
11-30-2000, 09:19 AM
Not to be picky... but, in response to your "if they had equal talent" remark... isn't that the responsiblity of the head coach? True, Elway and Sharpe were there. Davis was not - Smith was developing... etc.

Gruden had Brown, brought over Gannon - a possible MVP candidate (not in my eyes, but that's fine)... so, things are leveling out.

Lightning Rod
11-30-2000, 09:26 AM
I just want to state for the record that I wasn't completely serious when I posted the statement. I just know that Shanahan/Gruden is like Grbac/Gannon for the Faders and Donkeys. Maybe I should go post this on a Donkey board and see what happens.... :p

Honestly, I think Shanahan has Grudens number head-to-head (kind of like Gunther to Shanahan). Shanahan also has two Lombardis and Gruden has none. I guess time will be the ultimate judge.

[This message has been edited by DiscoJones (edited 11-30-2000).]

aaaaa
11-30-2000, 09:28 AM
I belive that Gruden will have to win some playoff games first before we can start comparing him to the coach of a team that had one of the most-impressive three-year runs in NFL History (1996-1998). I believe that any playoff team that Gruden faces which has an above-average corps of linebackers has a great chance of beating his team, so I find it hard to imagine him being able to win 3 straight postseaon games in any 1 year, which is a minimum requirement for a Super Bowl Champion.

Baby Lee
11-30-2000, 09:36 AM
Brad,
Not all coaches have the final say in personnel decisions, and certainly not over Al Davis. The Rat does, doesn't he?

So far, I would have to say that Gruden can get alot out of the talent he has. It's not yet a fair comparison, though.

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 11-30-2000).]

Ugly Duck
11-30-2000, 09:39 AM
Ahhh, and there lies the rub...

With Oakland it all reverts back to Al Davis. Maybe Gruden can get his experience there, then go to KC and win his SuperBowls.

Now, wouldn't that just make Raiduh fans puke. :D Two coaches leave, go to divisional foes and win multiple SuperBowls.

Baby Lee
11-30-2000, 09:40 AM
I'd take Gruden as the head coach here in a minute.

BTW, does Shanny have the final say in personnel?

Fat Homer
11-30-2000, 09:41 AM
They both have the silliest looks on their faces I've ever seen....

Shanahan has to get the nod...

I wonder if we can get him as an OC?...

------------------
joe

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst

morphius
11-30-2000, 09:42 AM
IMO almost any coach could be successful with a hall-of-fame QB, a 2,000 yard RB, a hall-of-fame TE, and two 1,000 yard receivers.

The Rat hasn't done squat since Elway retired, and his drafts have been even worse than Peterson's.

Marcus Nash.

Ugly Duck
11-30-2000, 09:46 AM
Clint, it's still too early to be drinking. I've seen shock value statements before, but that one takes the cake.

Go ahead and compare Shanahan's drafts to Peterson's drafts... hell, Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson pretty much give Shanahan the nod over Carl by themselves.

Thanks for the laugh... oh and Elway is not there now, but the team is 8-4. Thanks again, Clint. :D

[This message has been edited by Mile High Mania (edited 11-30-2000).]

redhed
11-30-2000, 09:48 AM
Shannahan, no doubt. Elway played in this league for a long time without winning a Superbowl before Shannahan came along. He also had the guts to start a 6th round pick because he recognized TD was the best running back he had on the roster. Gruden may or may not be great someday but Mike Shanahan has the rings right now and whatever else some may believe, that is the only measure of success in the NFL.

Baby Lee
11-30-2000, 09:52 AM
Don't forget Brad, the donx have beaten only 2 team with a winning record(Gruden's boys and the Jets)and have only 1 remaining (New Orleans). Kinda says something about the schedule.

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 11-30-2000).]

Buzzbait
11-30-2000, 09:55 AM
In Mike I trust....Holmgren that is...... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

milkman
11-30-2000, 10:00 AM
I would take the coach that can get the most out of his players and finds ways to use their strengths to an advantage and not force them into some role they cannot succeed in. For this I will take the wait and see approach, because both are kind of disguesting to me at this point.

Ugly Duck
11-30-2000, 10:07 AM
Mi... I never said the schedule wasn't easy. KC went 9-7 on a "easy" schedule last year, remember?

It's all good...

Baby Lee
11-30-2000, 10:15 AM
Comparing the 99 chiefs schedule to the 2000 donx schedule is a joke. Let's see:
AFC east opponents:
99chiefs: colts, patriots
00donx:jets, patriots
More difficult:chiefs

Central: 99chiefs: Ravens, Steelers
00donx:Browns, Bengals
More difficult:chiefs

Nice try though, Brad. I'll have to give you an E for effort. ;)<BR>

mlyonsd
11-30-2000, 10:21 AM
Mile High...

Not exactly a fair comparison.

But at similar stages in their careers, the advantage is Grudens.

Gru's first 3 seasons.. 26-18
The Rats... 16-20

People tend to forget it was 5 years between being fired as the coach of the L.A. Raiders and his hiring as HC of the Donx.

The Rat had a lot more talent when he took over as Raider coach than did Gruden but he was overwhelmed his first go around as head coach.

You can't argue with Lombardis but if you compare them at similar stages in their career, Grudens been more productive.

mlyonsd
11-30-2000, 10:24 AM
And for all the "genious" labels put on him, I think he's only had 3 over .500 seasons.... I know he went 8-8 his first year at Pile High.

Phobia
11-30-2000, 10:30 AM
Some numbers on the 1999 v. 2000 assertion:

KC's out of division schedule in 1999 was against teams with a combined 70-58 record.

As it stands right now, All 3 teams out of division records are fairly even. If the season ended as of last Sunday, the combined records of out of division teams would be:

(I really botched the first post, Im editing this because I got a few columns of numbers confused)

Oak: 25-37 w/3 to play those 3 remaining have a combined 19-17 (44-54)

Den: 27-47 w/2 to play, those 2 remaining have a combined 12-12 (39-59)

KC: 35-25 w/3 to play, those 3 remainin have a combined 11-26 (46-51)

[This message has been edited by KCTitus (edited 11-30-2000).]

Baby Lee
11-30-2000, 10:32 AM
Thanks titus.

Baby Lee
11-30-2000, 10:38 AM
It's so quiet that I can actually hear Mile High's wheels turning.

Ugly Duck
11-30-2000, 12:08 PM
I've been away for a few hours...

Basically KC of 98 and Den of 99 sucked... giving them *soft* schedules the next year.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif