PDA

View Full Version : Marine general: It's 'fun to shoot people'


Donger
02-03-2005, 05:33 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/general.shoot/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A three-star Marine general who said it was "fun to shoot some people" should have chosen his words more carefully, the Marine Corps commandant said Thursday.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who commanded Marine expeditions in Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday during a panel discussion in San Diego, California.

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Mattis' press office has not yet responded to a request to answer questions about his comments.

However, the Marine commandant, Gen. Michael Hagee, defended Mattis, calling him "one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

"While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," he said in a written statement. "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor."

Hagee said he had counseled Mattis regarding the remarks and that Mattis "agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

"Throughout our history, Marines have given their lives in the defense of this nation and human rights around the globe," Hagee's statement read. "When necessary, this commitment helps to provide us the fortitude to take the lives of those who oppress others or threaten this nation's security. This is not something we relish, yet we accept it as a reality in our profession of arms."

"Lt. Gen. Mattis is a superb leader and one of the Corps' most courageous and experienced warriors," Hagee wrote. "I remain confident that he will continue to serve this nation with dedication and distinction."

Added Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "The last three times that that general has been in combat, when he was leading Marines in Afghanistan and the two times that he led his division in Iraq, his actions and those of his troops clearly show that he understands the value of proper leadership and the value of human life."

Pace spoke Thursday during a Pentagon briefing. He declined to comment directly on Mattis' comments.

Early in his career, Mattis served as a rifle and weapons platoon commander as a lieutenant and later a captain. He also commanded assault battalions in Operation Desert Storm and Desert Shield. He was the commander of the 1st Marine Division for the initial attack on Iraq.

San Diego television station KNSD, which calls itself NBC 7/39, captured Mattis' Tuesday comments on video and interviewed a retired military man afterward who said the general's remarks were "flippant."

"I was a little surprised," said retired Vice Adm. Edward H. Martin. "I don't think any of us who have ever fought in wars liked to kill anybody."

KCWolfman
02-03-2005, 05:46 PM
I am sure a great deal of the military agree with him.


Of course, the politically correct whiners will attempt to rip him for giving his true feelings on the subject. After all, we are bad if we enjoy removing a threat from society.

picasso
02-03-2005, 05:53 PM
Another touching moment with Lt. General Mattis.
Wasn't he the guy in Full Metal Jacket the said "When you shoot women and children, well hell it's easy, you just don't lead them as much. HAHA!!Get it? HAHA!!"

memyselfI
02-03-2005, 05:57 PM
I am sure a great deal of the military agree with him.


Of course, the politically correct whiners will attempt to rip him for giving his true feelings on the subject. After all, we are bad if we enjoy removing a threat from society.

Oh please. Most people won't be surprised one iota. I wonder why this made news at all because it's likely so prevalent and standard operating procedure.

At some level a person has to have a comfort level with killing human beings in order to do the job. I'm sure some out there even really enjoy the job and see it as 'fun'..as this guy explained.

ck_IN
02-03-2005, 07:28 PM
All I can say in response to this is




Semper Fi :thumb:

Garcia Bronco
02-03-2005, 07:51 PM
He's a Marine...it's his job to enjoy killing when he's told too....

Iowanian
02-03-2005, 08:23 PM
His job is to teach Men to Break things and Kill People.

I'd prefer one of the sensitive guys who cut truckers hair on Bravo, not have that job.

Saggysack
02-03-2005, 09:36 PM
What an idiot. He should have known better than to put it in those words. Nobody in their right mind thinks shooting humans is fun. I will just say that the joys of survival far outweigh the grim reality of death is what he meant.

BIG_DADDY
02-03-2005, 10:55 PM
I certainly hope he enjoys killing those POS. It's his job he might as well enjoy it. I prefer having an animal like that in there as opposed having someone shooting rice patties so he can get a purple heart and run for the presidency.

Hoover
02-03-2005, 11:08 PM
Didn't someone after the Vietnam war ask a vet how he was able to kill women and childrens and his response was "you don't lead them as much"?

Radar Chief
02-04-2005, 07:34 AM
Are these Generals Hagee and Mattis reminding anyone else of Bradley and Patton?

Radar Chief
02-04-2005, 07:36 AM
Didn't someone after the Vietnam war ask a vet how he was able to kill women and childrens and his response was "you don't lead them as much"?

You're probably thinking of the movie, "Full Metal Jacket".

Amnorix
02-04-2005, 07:45 AM
Dumb thing to say, but honestly, who cares? He's a Marine for God's sake.

StcChief
02-04-2005, 07:50 AM
Good for him. Candid. Killing those POS is what they deserve.

I'm sure the woman and children of Iraq Afganistan, and the rest of the totalitarian Muslim world would agree.

The are bad guys period.

Mr. Kotter
02-04-2005, 07:57 AM
It is.

So? :shrug:

tiptap
02-04-2005, 08:46 AM
I am sure a great deal of the military agree with him.


Of course, the politically correct whiners will attempt to rip him for giving his true feelings on the subject. After all, we are bad if we enjoy removing a threat from society.

It is just the conceit that he can be judge, jury and executioner and do so in minutes in evaluating the conduct of those he likes to shoot. It does mollify the difficult position of having to kill people to imagine that they are guilty and I understand that most of those killed do have violent tendencies. But it seems a service to war and not to the ideals that we must wage war in behalf of.

Mr. Kotter
02-04-2005, 09:15 AM
It is just the conceit that he can be judge, jury and executioner and do so in minutes in evaluating the conduct of those he likes to shoot. It does mollify the difficult position of having to kill people to imagine that they are guilty and I understand that most of those killed do have violent tendencies. But it seems a service to war and not to the ideals that we must wage war in behalf of.

Good thing you didn't join the armed forces and have to fight in combat. You'd have been a dead man. You think too much.

Donger
02-04-2005, 09:28 AM
Didn't someone after the Vietnam war ask a vet how he was able to kill women and childrens and his response was "you don't lead them as much"?

Close. Michael Herr was a freelance combat journalist in Vietnam. He apparently witnessed the infamous "You just don't lead them as much" incident. He also helped script the film Full Metal Jacket; hence its inclusion in the film.

Hoover
02-04-2005, 09:29 AM
Close. Michael Herr was a freelance combat journalist in Vietnam. He apparently witnessed the infamous "You just don't lead them as much" incident. He also helped script the film Full Metal Jacket; hence its inclusion in the film.
Hey thanks for the info

BroWhippendiddle
02-04-2005, 09:57 AM
Oh please. Most people won't be surprised one iota. I wonder why this made news at all because it's likely so prevalent and standard operating procedure.

At some level a person has to have a comfort level with killing human beings in order to do the job. I'm sure some out there even really enjoy the job and see it as 'fun'..as this guy explained.

It is obvious that, again, you have no clue as to what you are speaking aobut. Have you ever been in the military? Have you ever been in a position to defend yourself in combat? Have you ever killed a human in the line of duty?

The facts are that you never get used to it. You learn to live with it or you end up in a mental ward with the VA or elsewhere.

There is no diffeence between what this General said and what you hear some gangbangers say after they have pulled off a drive by, the bravado may speak, but when they sleep they remember.

Those that truly have no feeling about taking a life are not often in the military because there are "rules" to fighting and killing compared to "outside" the structure.

This might seem incoherent rants, but I am so appaled by your comments that I can't believe anyone would even write them. You are truly a sick individual.

Duck Dog
02-04-2005, 02:30 PM
I'm sure the liberals who say they support the troops will back this guy up since he enjoy's his job so much.

tiptap
02-04-2005, 04:29 PM
Good thing you didn't join the armed forces and have to fight in combat. You'd have been a dead man. You think too much.


My grandfather raised me. Fought in WW1 and tells of how he got his bone graft that saved his leg. My father fought in the south pacific as a Marine, Iwo Jima and all. Both of them told me early on that it wasn't a good idea for me to seek combat. (This doesn't mean I was unathletic, it simply meant I thought through a lot of the games I played.) But they and I take offence to the notion that you can think too much. What you really mean to say is that it is a difficult task to engage in war and to be hesitant in battle can cost one dearly. Those individuals, may by necessity, might need to reflect upon their task and field an immediate judgement. But it is not war and its necessities that we as a nation should entertain when we choose to wage war and especially away from war in pursuit of life. It should not be the best of our country to raise the horror of war as our highest pursuit. Within the necessity of war such discussion may be entertained among participants. But when it is paraded in a larger audience its must also be actively circumscribed. It is in defense of principles that lives are sacrificed as illustrated by the choice of characterizations that this Marined used in his justifications ie principles of equality and freedom. To voice those principles, of equality and freedom and life must always trump the sacrifices or they are for naught.

Demonpenz
02-04-2005, 04:44 PM
If shooting people weren't fun, there wouldn't be any first person shooters.

Mr. Kotter
02-04-2005, 04:51 PM
My grandfather raised me. Fought in WW1 and tells of how he got his bone graft that saved his leg. My father fought in the south pacific as a Marine, Iwo Jima and all. Both of them told me early on that it wasn't a good idea for me to seek combat. (This doesn't mean I was unathletic, it simply meant I thought through a lot of the games I played.) But they and I take offence to the notion that you can think too much. What you really mean to say is that it is a difficult task to engage in war and to be hesitant in battle can cost one dearly. Those individuals, may by necessity, might need to reflect upon their task and field an immediate judgement. But it is not war and its necessities that we as a nation should entertain when we choose to wage war and especially away from war in pursuit of life. It should not be the best of our country to raise the horror of war as our highest pursuit. Within the necessity of war such discussion may be entertained among participants. But when it is paraded in a larger audience its must also be actively circumscribed. It is in defense of principles that lives are sacrificed as illustrated by the choice of characterizations that this Marined used in his justifications ie principles of equality and freedom. To voice those principles, of equality and freedom and life must always trump the sacrifices or they are for naught.

I agree.

Dang, you teach philosophy, don't you? :hmmm:

:thumb:

Baby Lee
02-04-2005, 05:11 PM
But they and I take offence to the notion that you can think too much.
And I agree with that statement, albeit from the outside. I have the upmost respect for the troops, but I know I could never be an effective fighter. Not because I couldn't get myself in fighting shape [though nowadays. . . :hmmm: ]. Not because my conscience would interfere. But because I am incapable of giving myself over to the wholly to the authority of the history of a fighting band.
I have a visceral reaction to those scenes of drill sergeant getting in your face and screaming for you to "do another 100 MAGGOT!!!" I just shut down and go into full on sullen rebellion.
I'll never forget, my freshman year at NMSU/TSU, we were required to take either health and exercise science or military science as part of our core. I figured six-1/2 dozen and signed up for military science because it fit my schedule best. The classroom stuff was all right, not all that exciting, but all right. Then we got to the physical fitness test at midterm, and sure enough, there's some dude, in full dress garb, on the campus of a liberal arts [that's "liberal arts," not "liberal" arts] and sciences, screaming at the top of his lungs at sorority girls and band geeks and beer swilling frat boys alike, as if he were auditioning for "An Officer and a Gentleman" or "Full Metal Jacket." "I could do more pushups with one hand, maggot!" "My lowest scrub could whip you, maggot."
I shook my head, walked out of class, and never went back.
I appreciate that some people need to be broken down and rebuilt. I appreciate the possibility that every member of a fighting squad needs to be broken and rebuilt. It's just not for me. I put a lot of thought into who I am, and I'm never gonna put myself on a track to have a "I've got nowhere else to go!!!!" moment.

WilliamTheIrish
02-04-2005, 07:14 PM
BFD.

He's a warrior. What do the men/ women who serve under him have to say?

If he's a leader of warriors, he should have this mentality.

WilliamTheIrish
02-04-2005, 07:26 PM
Another touching moment with Lt. General Mattis.
Wasn't he the guy in Full Metal Jacket the said "When you shoot women and children, well hell it's easy, you just don't lead them as much. HAHA!!Get it? HAHA!!"

If your looking for 'touching moments' from a war decorated Marine General, ....well...... you've got a long wait.

WilliamTheIrish
02-04-2005, 07:29 PM
I'm just really glad that he didn't say something really bad like "It's great fun to make the Radical Islamists wear underwear on their heads."

Mean stuff like that might lead to an Arab Street eruption.

SCTrojan
02-04-2005, 11:24 PM
It's one thing to say this when you are talking with a gathering of troops. It's completely different when you're speaking on a panel where, apparently, there are journalists who are recording your every word.

Like it or not, generals are expected to be a bit more circumspect with their words. Most people can say whatever is on their minds, and it can be taken as just another anonymous opinion. Generals, however, are not allowed that luxury.

He should take the ass chewing, learn his lesson and move on.

Mr. Kotter
02-04-2005, 11:53 PM
...He should take the ass chewing, learn his lesson and move on.

Yup.

The suggestion, though, that he ought to resign, or otherwise be held accountable? Bullshit.

Fugg 'em. :shake:

craneref
02-05-2005, 02:10 AM
Amazing how some will cream until they turn red in the face over the comments of this General, yet have no problem with elected officials calling the sitting National Security Advisor and the President a liar on national TV. Different set of rules I guess, however, as a military man myself, I do believe their is a place a time for everything, and obviously to me at least,this was said at the wrong place at the wrong time. Doesn't mean I disagree with the General, just his timing and location. I believe the general feels bad if he feels that he has brought any shame upon the Corps, to a marine like him, this is worse that any ass chewing he could get. Those with a since of duty, country and honor will understand that better than some others.

BroWhippendiddle
02-05-2005, 08:27 AM
Amazing how some will cream until they turn red in the face over the comments of this General, yet have no problem with elected officials calling the sitting National Security Advisor and the President a liar on national TV. Different set of rules I guess, however, as a military man myself, I do believe their is a place a time for everything, and obviously to me at least,this was said at the wrong place at the wrong time. Doesn't mean I disagree with the General, just his timing and location. I believe the general feels bad if he feels that he has brought any shame upon the Corps, to a marine like him, this is worse that any ass chewing he could get. Those with a since of duty, country and honor will understand that better than some others.

Comments like that usually draw the ire of many of the anti-military types on this board. It seems as if the swing is moving the other direction relating to our military brothers and sisters that are doing a job that needed to be done.

This fourm needs to be renamed "As the Stomach Turns"!!

WilliamTheIrish
02-05-2005, 11:39 AM
It's one thing to say this when you are talking with a gathering of troops. It's completely different when you're speaking on a panel where, apparently, there are journalists who are recording your every word.

Like it or not, generals are expected to be a bit more circumspect with their words. Most people can say whatever is on their minds, and it can be taken as just another anonymous opinion. Generals, however, are not allowed that luxury.

He should take the ass chewing, learn his lesson and move on.


I tend to agree with your assertion.

However, it seemed to me that the general was addressing a broader point and his comments were snipped and clipped and packaged so as to cause a furor.

I only know for certain that he was addressing the operational tactics of the war and none of his other quotes were used.

"Don't patronize this enemy. They mean business. They mean every word they say... They're killing us now. Their will is not broken."

The above was also a quote of Mattis' from the panel discussion. I'd like to have heard the question that led to the above quoted answer.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec03/marine_9-26.html (Here is a good article on Mattis' from PBS regarding his leadership in the occupation (from 09-03))

SCTrojan
02-05-2005, 11:56 AM
However, it seemed to me that the general was addressing a broader point and his comments were snipped and clipped and packaged so as to cause a furor.

Absolutely agree. But this shouldn't be a surprise. The news is made up almost entirely of 15-second sound bites. That is all the more reason that he should carefully choose his words. I don't think he said any of this to cause an uproar. But that's what he's created in some media outlets.

Bowser
02-05-2005, 12:00 PM
But that's what he's created in some media outlets.

Sells papers and pulls in ratings, don'tchaknow?

Calcountry
02-05-2005, 01:37 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/general.shoot/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A three-star Marine general who said it was "fun to shoot some people" should have chosen his words more carefully, the Marine Corps commandant said Thursday.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who commanded Marine expeditions in Afghanistan and Iraq, made the comments Tuesday during a panel discussion in San Diego, California.

"Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot," Mattis said, prompting laughter from some military members in the audience. "It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis said. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

Mattis' press office has not yet responded to a request to answer questions about his comments.

However, the Marine commandant, Gen. Michael Hagee, defended Mattis, calling him "one of this country's bravest and most experienced military leaders."

"While I understand that some people may take issue with the comments made by him, I also know he intended to reflect the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," he said in a written statement. "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor."

Hagee said he had counseled Mattis regarding the remarks and that Mattis "agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

"Throughout our history, Marines have given their lives in the defense of this nation and human rights around the globe," Hagee's statement read. "When necessary, this commitment helps to provide us the fortitude to take the lives of those who oppress others or threaten this nation's security. This is not something we relish, yet we accept it as a reality in our profession of arms."

"Lt. Gen. Mattis is a superb leader and one of the Corps' most courageous and experienced warriors," Hagee wrote. "I remain confident that he will continue to serve this nation with dedication and distinction."

Added Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, "The last three times that that general has been in combat, when he was leading Marines in Afghanistan and the two times that he led his division in Iraq, his actions and those of his troops clearly show that he understands the value of proper leadership and the value of human life."

Pace spoke Thursday during a Pentagon briefing. He declined to comment directly on Mattis' comments.

Early in his career, Mattis served as a rifle and weapons platoon commander as a lieutenant and later a captain. He also commanded assault battalions in Operation Desert Storm and Desert Shield. He was the commander of the 1st Marine Division for the initial attack on Iraq.

San Diego television station KNSD, which calls itself NBC 7/39, captured Mattis' Tuesday comments on video and interviewed a retired military man afterward who said the general's remarks were "flippant."

"I was a little surprised," said retired Vice Adm. Edward H. Martin. "I don't think any of us who have ever fought in wars liked to kill anybody."He needs the Political Corectness medal of honor.

I love people who aren't afraid to tell it like it is. Fug all this look over my shoulder to see who is listening before I speak BS. What happened to fuggin free speach?

memyselfI
02-05-2005, 02:47 PM
It is obvious that, again, you have no clue as to what you are speaking aobut. Have you ever been in the military? Have you ever been in a position to defend yourself in combat? Have you ever killed a human in the line of duty?

The facts are that you never get used to it. You learn to live with it or you end up in a mental ward with the VA or elsewhere.

There is no diffeence between what this General said and what you hear some gangbangers say after they have pulled off a drive by, the bravado may speak, but when they sleep they remember.

Those that truly have no feeling about taking a life are not often in the military because there are "rules" to fighting and killing compared to "outside" the structure.

This might seem incoherent rants, but I am so appaled by your comments that I can't believe anyone would even write them. You are truly a sick individual.

oh boo hoo. Don't WILLINGLY sign up to kill people and then expect kudos for not going crazy when you actually HAVE to do your job...afterall, the military supposedly preps their folks appropriately, right? :hmmm:

if anyone is sick it would be those who believe that this general's remarks are somehow out of the norm or are not to be expected...as most people on this thread have pointed out.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 04:49 PM
Yup.

The suggestion, though, that he ought to resign, or otherwise be held accountable? Bullshit.

Fugg 'em. :shake:

Now, now, now. I don't think he should resign. But, let's be honest here. You know and I know that man will never see another promotion again for what he said in public. No adminstration will ever give another star for those idiotic comments. He fugged himself for something he should have never said. He is an idiot for those comments, plain and simple. You should also know that the military has to play the PR game as well. He took a major PR shit with those comments. And I'm sure he realizes it now.

Calcountry
02-05-2005, 04:53 PM
Now, now, now. I don't think he should resign. But, let's be honest here. You know and I know that man will never see another promotion again for what he said in public. No adminstration will ever give another star for those idiotic comments. He fugged himself for something he should have never said. He is an idiot for those comments, plain and simple. You should also know that the military has to play the PR game as well. He took a major PR shit with those comments. And I'm sure he realizes it now.YOu need to watch the Movie Patton and his opening comments to see how I feel about this.

"I feel sorry for them bastards, I really do. Not only are we going to kill them, but we are going to use thier living guts, to greese our tanks."

BroWhippendiddle
02-05-2005, 04:55 PM
oh boo hoo. Don't WILLINGLY sign up to kill people and then expect kudos for not going crazy when you actually HAVE to do your job...afterall, the military supposedly preps their folks appropriately, right?

if anyone is sick it would be those who believe that this general's remarks are somehow out of the norm or are not to be expected...as most people on this thread have pointed out.

Once again you show how much you don't know. You don't even have a clue as to what goes on.

How many Generals are in the Marines? How many Generals have made that or similar comments? To carry this further, how many General officers are in the Army? Air Force? How many Admirals in the Navy? And again, how many of them have made the comment you ascribe to with your assertion that they all sign up to kill. The reason anyone signs up in the military (regardless of which branch) is to defend their country.

Mostly I wonder which country is the one you claim as you definately do not have a grasp on anything relating to Honor, Courage and Committment (the core values of the Marines and Navy). The Air Force and the Army have similar core values. What are your core values? Hate, miscontent and accusations?

You don't know shit.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 05:08 PM
YOu need to watch the Movie Patton and his opening comments to see how I feel about this.

"I feel sorry for them bastards, I really do. Not only are we going to kill them, but we are going to use thier living guts, to greese our tanks."

I don't know if that is an actual Patton comment or not. If it is, I'm sure you would agree that a comment made from Patton in the 40's means nothing for what Lt. Gen. Mathis says in 2005.

ANother point of clarity I would like to make is that this is a General we are talking about, not a troop on the front line fighting. I have no doubt in my mind that Lt. Gen. Mathis was sitting safely, miles behind in a CP(command post) from those that were fighting. I doubt he even fired a shot in Iraq. Most of his time spent in Iraq was more than likely sitting in something air conditioned while his steak was being served to him.

Deberg_1990
02-05-2005, 05:09 PM
I dont remember General Patton being very "Politically correct" either....history has been kind to him. It takes a certain type of mentality to get the job done...

Loki
02-05-2005, 07:07 PM
why is there an issue with this? i am sick to death of people expecting
our military to be politically correct.

grow some friggin nads...

i'm good to go with the good general's comments. semper fi and
lead on sir.

Calcountry
02-05-2005, 07:11 PM
I don't know if that is an actual Patton comment or not. If it is, I'm sure you would agree that a comment made from Patton in the 40's means nothing for what Lt. Gen. Mathis says in 2005.

ANother point of clarity I would like to make is that this is a General we are talking about, not a troop on the front line fighting. I have no doubt in my mind that Lt. Gen. Mathis was sitting safely, miles behind in a CP(command post) from those that were fighting. I doubt he even fired a shot in Iraq. Most of his time spent in Iraq was more than likely sitting in something air conditioned while his steak was being served to him.I don't know about you, but I WANT MY FUGGIN GENERALS IN 2005 HAPPY TO KILL KILL KILL MOTHA FUGGA.

Loki
02-05-2005, 07:12 PM
I don't know if that is an actual Patton comment or not. If it is, I'm sure you would agree that a comment made from Patton in the 40's means nothing for what Lt. Gen. Mathis says in 2005.

ANother point of clarity I would like to make is that this is a General we are talking about, not a troop on the front line fighting. I have no doubt in my mind that Lt. Gen. Mathis was sitting safely, miles behind in a CP(command post) from those that were fighting. I doubt he even fired a shot in Iraq. Most of his time spent in Iraq was more than likely sitting in something air conditioned while his steak was being served to him.

how do you think he got to be a general? he had to be a platoon
leader at one point in time and get shot at and watch his men die...
rarely do officers make high rank with no combat experience.

i can't really say i have much love for many of the officers i had the
displeasure of meeting, so i know what you're saying. however, those
that WERE squared away (as i imagine this general is) i would follow
straight into hell no questions asked. those officers usually led from
the front... got right down and dirty with the rest of us. full respect.

Calcountry
02-05-2005, 07:13 PM
I don't know if that is an actual Patton comment or not. If it is, I'm sure you would agree that a comment made from Patton in the 40's means nothing for what Lt. Gen. Mathis says in 2005.

There is no fuggin difference between then and now. We have ****ing enemies dammit.

BroWhippendiddle
02-05-2005, 09:04 PM
There is no fuggin difference between then and now. We have ****ing enemies dammit.

That fact seems to elude some of the folks on this forum. It seems as if they equate natural born killers with anyone in the military. So, if that is true, there are hundreds of thousands if not millions, of serial type killers running the streets of America. You know, the kind that go out because they were trained to kill they are still out doing it.

Are you former military? How many people have you killed since your discharge?

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 10:36 PM
I don't know about you, but I WANT MY FUGGIN GENERALS IN 2005 HAPPY TO KILL KILL KILL MOTHA FUGGA.

I want my Generals to have enough wits with them not to make a dumbass comment like that in todays world. He should have known full well that his comment was not something you say for the whole world to see and hear. It's just stupid. This fact shouldn't even be up for debate.

stevieray
02-05-2005, 10:39 PM
I want my Generals to have enough wits with them not to make a dumbass comment like that in todays world. He should have known full well that his comment was not something you say for the whole world to see and hear. It's just stupid. This fact shouldn't even be up for debate.

yup, let's not face the fact that war is brutal, and takes brutal men to do the 'dirty work' that most can't handle.

KCWolfman
02-05-2005, 10:41 PM
I want my Generals to have enough wits with them not to make a dumbass comment like that in todays world. He should have known full well that his comment was not something you say for the whole world to see and hear. It's just stupid. This fact shouldn't even be up for debate.
Why is it stupid? Does it take away from his abilities somehow?

So you would prefer a disingenious person to complete his tasks as opposed to an honest one? Considering previous posts, I don't doubt that at all.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 10:54 PM
how do you think he got to be a general? he had to be a platoon
leader at one point in time and get shot at and watch his men die...
rarely do officers make high rank with no combat experience.

i can't really say i have much love for many of the officers i had the
displeasure of meeting, so i know what you're saying. however, those
that WERE squared away (as i imagine this general is) i would follow
straight into hell no questions asked. those officers usually led from
the front... got right down and dirty with the rest of us. full respect.

I'm trying to play down his time in service one bit. He obviously has seen combat at some level. A platoon leader in Vietnam? I dunno, might have been to young. But, a Bat. Cmdr. during Gulf War I, I can see. But you know as well as I know that MF'er(no offense, I was enlisted, okay...) was sitting in his air conditioned Range Rover acting like Mr. Fuggin Tough Guy. His tough mouth just came back and bit his long and great career in the ass with that one comment. It's kinda sad if you think about it. His future in the military really is no longer. He's peaked I guess you could say.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 10:58 PM
yup, let's not face the fact that war is brutal, and takes brutal men to do the 'dirty work' that most can't handle.

Oh please. I didn't say that I don't understand where his comment comes from. It just not a comment that you make in public. Hence, it was a stupid comment.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 11:01 PM
Why is it stupid? Does it take away from his abilities somehow?

So you would prefer a disingenious person to complete his tasks as opposed to an honest one? Considering previous posts, I don't doubt that at all.

It's stupid because he only fugged himself. No chance he will ever get his 4th star now.

stevieray
02-05-2005, 11:04 PM
Oh please. I didn't say that I don't understand where his comment. It just not a comment that you make in public. Hence, it was a stupid comment.

In your opinion.

and unless you are a General leading troops during battle, you don't hold the morality bagde over his head and stomp your foot.

stevieray
02-05-2005, 11:05 PM
It's stupid because he only fugged himself. No chance he will ever get his 4th star now.


please, like he needs you to save him from himself.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 11:08 PM
please, like he needs you to save him from himself.

WTF are you talking about? Where did I say anything about me saving him from himself?

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 11:09 PM
In your opinion.

and unless you are a General leading troops during battle, you don't hold the morality bagde over his head and stomp your foot.

I also wouldn't go on public record and say shooting humans is fun either.

stevieray
02-05-2005, 11:12 PM
I also wouldn't go on public record and say shooting humans is fun either.

so what? are you a general? he doesn't have to "live" by your standard.

stevieray
02-05-2005, 11:15 PM
WTF are you talking about? Where did I say anything about me saving him from himself?

then why bother saying he "won't get his star"

I bet you're really concerned about his welfare.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 11:16 PM
then why bother saying he "won't get his star"

I bet you're really concerned about his welfare.

because he won't

KCWolfman
02-05-2005, 11:18 PM
It's stupid because he only fugged himself. No chance he will ever get his 4th star now.
So his feelings should be determinate upon his rankings?

Wow, that sounds fair.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 11:28 PM
so what? are you a general? he doesn't have to "live" by your standard.

Nope, he doesn't. Never said he did.

He made stupid comment. A comment made like that in public will hang over his head for the rest of his career. Who knows how long that will be now, a few months, maybe a few years. It's unfortunate for him that the comment will hold him back from going any further in his career. His 4th star will take approval from Congress, he will never get it even though he may deserve it.

Saggysack
02-05-2005, 11:30 PM
So his feelings should be determinate upon his rankings?

Wow, that sounds fair.

Speaking to the choir.

Tell that the Pentagon PR players and Congress.

stevieray
02-06-2005, 12:28 AM
[QUOTE=Saggysack] It's unfortunate for him QUOTE]

Why is his fortune important to you?

Rausch
02-06-2005, 01:14 AM
Nope, he doesn't. Never said he did.

He made stupid comment. A comment made like that in public will hang over his head for the rest of his career. Who knows how long that will be now, a few months, maybe a few years. It's unfortunate for him that the comment will hold him back from going any further in his career. His 4th star will take approval from Congress, he will never get it even though he may deserve it.

There was once this guy, Patton...

Saggysack
02-06-2005, 03:04 AM
There was once this guy, Patton...

Different time, different rules to the game...

That's right, war is a strategic game.

BroWhippendiddle
02-06-2005, 07:51 AM
I'm trying to play down his time in service one bit. He obviously has seen combat at some level. A platoon leader in Vietnam? I dunno, might have been to young. But, a Bat. Cmdr. during Gulf War I, I can see. But you know as well as I know that MF'er(no offense, I was enlisted, okay...) was sitting in his air conditioned Range Rover acting like Mr. Fuggin Tough Guy. His tough mouth just came back and bit his long and great career in the ass with that one comment. It's kinda sad if you think about it. His future in the military really is no longer. He's peaked I guess you could say.

You obviously haven't been watching. Are you aware of how many years it takes to get one star, let alone 3. If I were going to bet, I'd bet that he did at least one tour in Vietnam as a junior officer if not more.

It's really sad that you can position this guy in his a/c'd Range Rover when you don't have any knowledge of what he has been involved with or where he has been.

It's not that you don't have a clue about what this guy is all about, you don't even suspect anything!!

Chief Henry
02-06-2005, 08:13 AM
Oh please. Most people won't be surprised one iota. I wonder why this made news at all because it's likely so prevalent and standard operating procedure.

At some level a person has to have a comfort level with killing human beings in order to do the job. I'm sure some out there even really enjoy the job and see it as 'fun'..as this guy explained.


Same chit just a different day with this lover of terrorist er freedom fighters!!!! It must be standard operating procedure for those ****ing terrorist to to kill human beings with "strap on" bombs. I am sure MOST of those terrorist have a comfort level and see it as fun killing people.

Look how fricking simple it is to use her own words to discribe her
own kind. :harumph:

Saggysack
02-06-2005, 11:08 AM
You obviously haven't been watching. Are you aware of how many years it takes to get one star, let alone 3. If I were going to bet, I'd bet that he did at least one tour in Vietnam as a junior officer if not more.

It's really sad that you can position this guy in his a/c'd Range Rover when you don't have any knowledge of what he has been involved with or where he has been.

It's not that you don't have a clue about what this guy is all about, you don't even suspect anything!!

You obviously havent been watching. According to his bio, As a Lieutenant, he served as a rifle and weapons platoon commander in the 3d Marine Division. As a Captain, he commanded a rifle company and a weapons company in the 1st Marine Brigade. As a Major, he commanded RS Portland. As a Lieutenant Colonel, he commanded 1st Battalion, 7th Marines, one of Task Force Ripper's assault battalions in Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm. As a Colonel, he commanded 7th Marines (Reinforced). As a Brigadier General, he commanded 1st Marine Expeditionary Brigade and then Task Force 58, during Operation Enduring Freedom in southern Afghanistan. As a Major General, he commanded 1st Marine Division during the initial attack and subsequent stability operations in Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

No Vietnam service that I can see.
If you look here on his new updated bio pic maybe you could find his Vietnam Service Medal. I can't seem to find it.

http://www.usmc.mil/genbios2.nsf/9523e931e0579c1a852569bd0037b1a2/35e4cf7347323b108525680800620eed/$FILE/highres.jpg

Phobia
02-06-2005, 11:25 AM
He's peaked I guess you could say.

Peaked at 3 stars. That's unfortunate. He's a complete failure now. Considering there are roughly a dozen 3 star generals and only 2 **** generals in the USMC at any one time, a 3 star is quite an achievement.

BroWhippendiddle
02-06-2005, 01:13 PM
You obviously havent been watching. According to his bio, As a Lieutenant, he served as a rifle and weapons platoon commander in the 3d Marine Division. As a Captain, he commanded a rifle company and a weapons company in the 1st Marine Brigade. As a Major, he commanded RS Portland. As a Lieutenant Colonel, he commanded 1st Battalion, 7th Marines, one of Task Force Ripper's assault battalions in Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm. As a Colonel, he commanded 7th Marines (Reinforced). As a Brigadier General, he commanded 1st Marine Expeditionary Brigade and then Task Force 58, during Operation Enduring Freedom in southern Afghanistan. As a Major General, he commanded 1st Marine Division during the initial attack and subsequent stability operations in Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

No Vietnam service that I can see.
If you look here on his new updated bio pic maybe you could find his Vietnam Service Medal. I can't seem to find it.


You are correct, on his ribbon rack he does not have any of the Vietnam ribbons or medals, but he does have the National Defense Medal awarded three times. To get that medal awarded three times you have to been in the service during the Vietnam era, Desert Storm era and the current conflict. I had not seen anything about the guy, but was commenting on the fact that he has to have been in the service back that far to be a General time in grade to get the stars.

I have that same medal with two bronze stars, the same as the General, however, I did serve in Vietnam and do not have the "fun to Kill attitude" which somewhat debunks duhnese and her comment that all of us that were military are natural born killers.

BroWhippendiddle
02-06-2005, 01:15 PM
Peaked at 3 stars. That's unfortunate. He's a complete failure now. Considering there are roughly a dozen 3 star generals and only 2 **** generals in the USMC at any one time, a 3 star is quite an achievement.

Unless they have kicked them all out you need to check your numbers. During 2002 I saw 5 Four Star Generals from the Marine Corps all in one place on the same day.

Phobia
02-07-2005, 04:09 PM
Active duty? When I served, the only 4 stars we had were the Commandant and the AC. Each Division and Wing had a 3 star with a few left to sprinkle between HQMC and the Pentagon.

BroWhippendiddle
02-07-2005, 06:49 PM
Active duty? When I served, the only 4 stars we had were the Commandant and the AC. Each Division and Wing had a 3 star with a few left to sprinkle between HQMC and the Pentagon.

During my recall SECNAV, CNO and CMC held a conference in Orlando for all General Officers of the Marines and all Flag Officers in the Navy, active and reserve. I saw more stars during that 4 day conference than you could see at midnight in the Carribean during the new moon. There were 5 Marines with 4 stars on their collars.

The Sailors and Marines in our Security Department managed the security issues for the conference.

I did find that the 3 and 4 star guys seemed to all be laid back, even the Marines. The onesies and twosies were very intense and seemed to be jockeying for position.