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memyselfI
02-12-2005, 09:36 AM
Guess he's now the leader of the party.

I could not support him as leader of the country but I think he could do a good job as leader of the Dems. :thumb:

Bwana
02-12-2005, 10:34 AM
Seriously? You really like the idea of Dean as the leader? The guy is a raving mad man.

Brock
02-12-2005, 10:44 AM
Just one more step forward into the tarpits of political irrelevance. I applaud this kevorkianesque maneuver.

WilliamTheIrish
02-12-2005, 10:59 AM
Here's the Yahoo story.. it contains some classics..

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050212/ap_on_re_us/democrats



Democrats Elect Howard Dean As Chairman


By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Democrats elected Howard Dean (news - web sites) chairman of their national party on Saturday, casting their lot with a skilled fund-raiser and organizer whose sometimes caustic, blunt comments can lead to controversy.

The 447-member Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) chose Dean on a voice vote to replace outgoing party chief Terry McAuliffe. The former Vermont governor and presidential candidate had promised to rebuild the state parties, take the offensive against Republicans, and better explain party positions on issues.

Democrats are eager to renew their campaign to regain political power, though some admit to a bit of anxiety. President Bush (news - web sites) just won his second term. Republicans are firmly in control of the House and the Senate. And the GOP is gaining strength in conservative states in the South and West.

"We only have one way to go, and that's up," Georgia delegate Lonnie Platt said.

For Joyce Cusack, a Florida delegate, it's time for Democrats to embrace their party's values.


"We are trying so hard to be like Republicans and we're not. I think Howard Dean says clearly that we are different," Cusack said. "We are the party of ordinary citizens and not the elite, we are everyday working folk."


Democratic leaders, who were initially wary of a Dean chairmanship, started embracing his leadership after it became apparent he was strong enough to claim the job. Several high-profile Democrats considering a bid for chairman backed out of the race.


House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, not always a Dean supporter, said Friday, "He has used the power of technology, the force of his personality and the depth of his ideals to bring new people into the party."


Dean told Democratic committee members Friday that it's important to learn to be more comfortable discussing the party's core values.


"The way I hope to deal with that problem, is not to abandon our core principles, but talk about them in a different way," he said.


Democrats are not pro-abortion, but "we are the party in favor of allowing women to make up their own minds about their health care," Dean, a physician, said. ROFL

Democrats are not for gay marriage, but "we are the party that has always believed in equal rights under the law for all people," he said.


"We are the party of moral values," Dean said. "There is nothing moral about cutting 300 million dollars that is used to feed starving children

That last one is my personal favorite. Starving the children?

BigMeatballDave
02-12-2005, 11:17 AM
I see. The Democrats couldn't put a viable candidate up for election. Now they've gone and let this loon head their party. Dipshits... :shake:

DenverChief
02-12-2005, 11:30 AM
I see. The Democrats couldn't put a viable candidate up for election. Now they've gone and let this loon head their party. Dipshits... :shake:
Bush wouldn't have been re-elected had it not been for they gay marriage issue...you can bet your sweet azz on that

siberian khatru
02-12-2005, 11:34 AM
http://www.6th.org.uk/Members/Images/ahdday.gif

"Ramming speeeeeed!!!!"

siberian khatru
02-12-2005, 11:41 AM
http://www.sfangels.com/images/Dr.%20Strangelove-%20more%20Slim%20Pickens%202.jpg

WilliamTheIrish
02-12-2005, 11:44 AM
Bush wouldn't have been re-elected had it not been for they gay marriage issue...you can bet your sweet azz on that

Then the Dem's shouldn't have allowed it to become an issue. Thank the mayor of SF for that one.

WilliamTheIrish
02-12-2005, 11:45 AM
http://www.6th.org.uk/Members/Images/ahdday.gif

"Ramming speeeeeed!!!!"

ROFL I just spit coffee all over. ROFL

jAZ
02-12-2005, 12:18 PM
Seriously? You really like the idea of Dean as the leader? The guy is a raving mad man.
You keep eating up what the pro-Republican Media is putting out. You won't see it coming that way.

jAZ
02-12-2005, 12:21 PM
Then the Dem's shouldn't have allowed it to become an issue. Thank the mayor of SF for that one.
Politically & strategically speaking, you are 100% correct.

Bwana
02-12-2005, 12:42 PM
You keep eating up what the pro-Republican Media is putting out. You won't see it coming that way.

Pro-Republican Media? ROFL Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Next you will be telling us all: "Keep Fu*king doubting Howard Dean!!"

2bikemike
02-12-2005, 12:44 PM
"We are trying so hard to be like Republicans and we're not. I think Howard Dean says clearly that we are different," Cusack said. "We are the party of ordinary citizens and not the elite, we are everyday working folk."


For some reason I believe the bold part is a crock of shit.

Chief Henry
02-12-2005, 12:59 PM
Looks to me like the biggest benefit Dean brings to the DNC is that he can turn up the VOLUME on the DEMS mantra...AAAHHHGGGG

Calcountry
02-12-2005, 01:40 PM
Here's the Yahoo story.. it contains some classics..

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050212/ap_on_re_us/democrats



Democrats Elect Howard Dean As Chairman


By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Democrats elected Howard Dean (news - web sites) chairman of their national party on Saturday, casting their lot with a skilled fund-raiser and organizer whose sometimes caustic, blunt comments can lead to controversy.

The 447-member Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) chose Dean on a voice vote to replace outgoing party chief Terry McAuliffe. The former Vermont governor and presidential candidate had promised to rebuild the state parties, take the offensive against Republicans, and better explain party positions on issues.

Democrats are eager to renew their campaign to regain political power, though some admit to a bit of anxiety. President Bush (news - web sites) just won his second term. Republicans are firmly in control of the House and the Senate. And the GOP is gaining strength in conservative states in the South and West.

"We only have one way to go, and that's up," Georgia delegate Lonnie Platt said.

For Joyce Cusack, a Florida delegate, it's time for Democrats to embrace their party's values.


"We are trying so hard to be like Republicans and we're not. I think Howard Dean says clearly that we are different," Cusack said. "We are the party of ordinary citizens and not the elite, we are everyday working folk."


Democratic leaders, who were initially wary of a Dean chairmanship, started embracing his leadership after it became apparent he was strong enough to claim the job. Several high-profile Democrats considering a bid for chairman backed out of the race.


House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, not always a Dean supporter, said Friday, "He has used the power of technology, the force of his personality and the depth of his ideals to bring new people into the party."


Dean told Democratic committee members Friday that it's important to learn to be more comfortable discussing the party's core values.


"The way I hope to deal with that problem, is not to abandon our core principles, but talk about them in a different way," he said.


Democrats are not pro-abortion, but "we are the party in favor of allowing women to make up their own minds about their health care," Dean, a physician, said. ROFL

Democrats are not for gay marriage, but "we are the party that has always believed in equal rights under the law for all people," he said.


"We are the party of moral values," Dean said. "There is nothing moral about cutting 300 million dollars that is used to feed starving children

That last one is my personal favorite. Starving the children?I tell you I am going to Washington, and Michigan, and Minnesota and were gonna take back the White House and I AM NAPOLEAN!!! AHAHAHHAHAHH!!!

beer bacon
02-12-2005, 02:13 PM
Seriously? You really like the idea of Dean as the leader? The guy is a raving mad man.

He screamed once in public once. ONCE.

It is ridiculous how far out of proportion the whole yelling thing has been blown. Every time you find yourself thinking that he is a mad man try to remind yourself that you are basing the sanity of a man based upon a one time occurrence of public screaming.

I am sure that many republicans get angry when liberals make the claim that Bush is retarded or at least an idiot based upon the numerous times he has mispoken during public speaking. It is not any different to assume Dean is crazy because he got overly excited and screamed while speaking.

It is too bad that it seems in the political world that people see everything as just a one way street and 90% refuse to see things both ways.

After reading through the rest of this thread I have realized why I usually stay out D.C. and in the Lounge. People are far more rational about football then they are politics :)

Brock
02-12-2005, 02:15 PM
Bush wouldn't have been re-elected had it not been for they gay marriage issue...you can bet your sweet azz on that

Yeah....it couldn't have been because the Dems chose a wooden indian as their candidate.

beer bacon
02-12-2005, 02:17 PM
Yeah....it couldn't have been because the Dems chose a wooden indian as their candidate.

As far as charisma goes, Bush is not really any better then Kerry. The Republican were just much better at shaping the public perception of that image then the democrats.

Bwana
02-12-2005, 02:18 PM
He screamed once in public once. ONCE.

True, but "ONCE" was enough to label the guy as half crazy with millions of people. For the Dems to make him the leader of the pack is even crazier.

beer bacon
02-12-2005, 02:25 PM
True, but "ONCE" was enough to label the guy as half crazy with millions of people. For the Dems to make him the leader of the pack is even more crazy.

The scream didn't get him labeled as crazy. The way the media as a whole has handled it as well as the way the Republican party exploited it is what crystalized the instant in America's mind.

People seem to be seeing the DC as the same as the President. This guy isn't running for election. If he can get through the organizational and structural changes in the Party that he wants to, then the Democrats will be much better off come next elections.

A large part of why that the Republicans are dominating so much right now is the candidates themselves, but due to how much more efficient and effective the Republican party machine is right now.

Also, I am not trying to come off as jerk that is 100% right in everything. Everything I have to say is just my opinion and that is why I am happy to discuss this stuff. I am not here to fling shit at those that don't agree with my views.

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:26 PM
True, but "ONCE" was enough to label the guy as half crazy with millions of people. For the Dems to make him the leader of the pack is even crazier.

Sure, to those of a 10 second sound bite mentality...

but then, those are not the types of voters who the Dems can count on to win anyway. No loss.

Bwana
02-12-2005, 02:30 PM
A large part of why that the Republicans are dominating so much right now is the candidates themselves, but due to how much more efficient and effective the Republican party machine is right now.


I would agree with that. The way I see it, even though Dean won't be running, the republicans will still put him in the spot light. Putting Dean in charge of the entire party is still not a wise move IMHO. Expect to see that tape rolled numerous times in the future. :hmmm:

Bwana
02-12-2005, 02:32 PM
Sure, to those of a 10 second sound bite mentality...

but then, those are not the types of voters who the Dems can count on to win anyway. No loss.

Oh come on Denise. :shake: That "10 seconds" doomed the guy for life. Would he have been your choice to run the show?

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:32 PM
I would agree with that. The way I see it, even though Dean won't be running, the republicans will still put him in the spot light. Putting Dean in charge of the entire party is still not a wise move IMHO. Expect to see that tape rolled numerous times in the future. :hmmm:


I hope the CONS continue to roll it out AD NAUSEUM. Please roll it frequently and without fail...

Americans have an uncanny ability to become desensitized and/or bored with something they see too much and will do so with the scream.

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:34 PM
Oh come on Denise. :shake: That "10 seconds" doomed the guy for life. Would he have been your choice to run the show?

I had no problems with him 'running the show'. MOF, I think it's a nice fit. I didn't think he was good President material but as far as running a party I think he might do quite well.

Bwana
02-12-2005, 02:39 PM
I had no problems with him 'running the show'. MOF, I think it's a nice fit. I didn't think he was good President material but as far as running a party I think he might do quite well.

He "Might" do quite well? That doesn't exactly sound like a dazzling endorsement of faith flowing from your lips.

Cochise
02-12-2005, 02:39 PM
Here's hoping he remakes the party in his own image.

Not that I don't like the way they've been heading already :D

beer bacon
02-12-2005, 02:40 PM
I would agree with that. The way I see it, even though Dean won't be running, the republicans will still put him in the spot light. Putting Dean in charge of the entire party is still not a wise move IMHO. Expect to see that tape rolled numerous times in the future. :hmmm:

If Dean can change the way our Party works and most of all change the way many people view the Democratic Party then to me it would be worth sullying his reputation further. There are quite a few unknowns such as if the Democratic party can seperate the changes taking place from the wackiness of Dean.

One of the things I am trying to stress, is that many of the changes taking place are going to be within the party and already loyal democrats. If those changes take place successfully, and the Democratic Party is still being hampered in the way of getting additional members by Dean's reputation, then maybe then they can get a more acceptable DC.

I would rather have Dean and the perception that many have of him with a more well oiled Democratic Party then no Dean and a more incompetent party.

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:43 PM
He "Might" do quite well? That doesn't exactly sound like a dazzling endorsement of faith flowing from your lips.

Ok, after seeing the respective campaigns and their ability to garner attention, support, enthusiasm, and money, there is no person I'd rather see than Howard Dean running the DNC.

There, is that dazzling enough for you?

Michael Michigan
02-12-2005, 02:43 PM
I hope the CONS continue to roll it out AD NAUSEUM. Please roll it frequently and without fail...

Americans have an uncanny ability to become desensitized and/or bored with something they see too much and will do so with the scream.

I'm certain the GOP has quite a bit more waiting for Dean than just his "scream."

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:45 PM
I'm certain the GOP has quite a bit more waiting for Dean than just his "scream."


And that is fine. Because as long as the CONS are focusing on Dean then they are spending attention on the wrong thing...

see, his election is already reaping rewards. :thumb:

Bwana
02-12-2005, 02:47 PM
BB: I hear what you're saying, but they have a long row to hoe to make a run at the big seat again.

I would have thought the party would want to disassociate itself from Dean, rather than put him in a position of power at that level.

One thing is for sure, it won't be dull. :)

Bwana
02-12-2005, 02:50 PM
Ok, after seeing the respective campaigns and their ability to garner attention, support, enthusiasm, and money, there is no person I'd rather see than Howard Dean running the DNC.

There, is that dazzling enough for you?

More like amazing. Preach on sister, preach on. :Peace:

Michael Michigan
02-12-2005, 02:50 PM
And that is fine. Because as long as the CONS are focusing on Dean then they are spending attention on the wrong thing...

The have a Dean file already worked up from '04. Just plug and play.

In case you haven't noticed, the GOP machine is usually about three moves ahead.

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:50 PM
BB: I hear what you're saying, but they have a long row to hoe to make a run at the big seat again.

I would have thought the party would want to disassociate itself from Dean, rather than put him in a position of power at that level.

One thing is for sure, it won't be dull. :)

I believe the CONS WISHED the Dems would dissassociate themselves from someone who was effective on a grassroots level and was able to bring on tons of new voters and lots of new money...

seeing the CONS have been successfully doing the same at a grassroots level. Of COURSE they'd WANT Dean to go away and the Dems to continue to focus on one office located in DC.

KCWolfman
02-12-2005, 02:51 PM
Sure, to those of a 10 second sound bite mentality...

but then, those are not the types of voters who the Dems can count on to win anyway. No loss.
Obviously he couldn't handle a pressure situation and cracked - kind of like you complain about GWB doing.

Funny how only one gets blame from you.

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:52 PM
The have a Dean file already worked up from '04. Just plug and play.

In case you haven't noticed, the GOP machine is usually about three moves ahead.

And that is fine. As long as they are discrediting the messenger they risk paying too much attention on the messenger vs. the message.

memyselfI
02-12-2005, 02:53 PM
Obviously he couldn't handle a pressure situation and cracked - kind of like you complain about GWB doing.

Funny how only one gets blame from you.


It's obvious you are one of the ten second mentality folks...

otherwise, if seen in context that 'scream' is nothing like it looks out of context.

KCWolfman
02-12-2005, 02:54 PM
And that is fine. As long as they are discrediting the messenger they risk paying too much attention on the messenger vs. the message.
Wow, is Duhnise on repeat from the 2004 campaign? Sounds like exactly what they were saying last October.

Michael Michigan
02-12-2005, 02:54 PM
And that is fine. As long as they are discrediting the messenger they risk paying too much attention on the messenger vs. the message.

Message?

You are kidding, right?

Mosbonian
02-12-2005, 02:54 PM
Sure, to those of a 10 second sound bite mentality...

You just described 3/4 of the DEMONcratic party.....

Bwana
02-12-2005, 02:54 PM
And that is fine. As long as they are discrediting the messenger they risk paying too much attention on the messenger vs. the message.

I think that can and will multitask and do both. :)

KCWolfman
02-12-2005, 02:55 PM
It's obvious you are one of the ten second mentality folks...

otherwise, if seen in context that 'scream' is nothing like it looks out of context.
He knew he lost the nomination and he cracked trying to keep up his guise that he could keep going. Like you on this subject, he was wrong as well, wasn't he? All you have to do is scream your reply to this post about how right you are and you would be a doppelganger for him.

I am sorry if you have deluded yourself to think otherwise.

Mosbonian
02-12-2005, 02:56 PM
Americans have an uncanny ability to become desensitized and/or bored with something they see too much and will do so with the scream.

All one has to do is view the mantra of the DEMONcratic Party and their platform to see the perfect example of the above statement...

Mosbonian
02-12-2005, 03:00 PM
I'm certain the GOP has quite a bit more waiting for Dean than just his "scream."

Dean, in his political career, has given the GOP plenty of material to roll out just to this point in his career. And I am sure, given his history and personality he is not done handing out "locker room BB material"...

KCWolfman
02-12-2005, 03:10 PM
And that is fine. As long as they are discrediting the messenger they risk paying too much attention on the messenger vs. the message.
Messages such as
"I didn't support NAFTA",

and "I never said Hussein was a threat"

and "We shouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden"
right after saying "Osama should get the death penalty"

and "My religion doesn't inform my public policy" after saying
"I think there was a religious aspect to my decision to support civil unions"

and "There is a war going on in the Middle East, and members of Hamas are soldiers in that war"

and "If you look at the caucuses system, they are dominated by the special interests, in both sides, in both parties. The special interests don't represent the centrist tendencies of the American people. They represent the extremes,"
just before saying "I support the Iowa caucus and will continue to press for its first-in-the-nation status."


Believe me, Dean has enough foot in mouth disease to be declared an epidemic all by himself before 2008. The Dems did just what the Reps wanted by bringing this guy to the forefront.

BigMeatballDave
02-12-2005, 03:12 PM
Personally, I could not care less about the 'scream'. I don't like him because he way too far left...

KCWolfman
02-12-2005, 03:16 PM
Personally, I could not care less about the 'scream'. I don't like him because he way too far left...
Not according to people like jAZ. However what is funny is that a liberal extremist like jAZ will tell you Dean is not in far left field just before he tells you he supports Dean.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm".

Calcountry
02-12-2005, 03:32 PM
He screamed once in public once. ONCE.

It is ridiculous how far out of proportion the whole yelling thing has been blown. Every time you find yourself thinking that he is a mad man try to remind yourself that you are basing the sanity of a man based upon a one time occurrence of public screaming.

I am sure that many republicans get angry when liberals make the claim that Bush is retarded or at least an idiot based upon the numerous times he has mispoken during public speaking. It is not any different to assume Dean is crazy because he got overly excited and screamed while speaking.

It is too bad that it seems in the political world that people see everything as just a one way street and 90% refuse to see things both ways.

After reading through the rest of this thread I have realized why I usually stay out D.C. and in the Lounge. People are far more rational about football then they are politics :)Oh no? Then why didn't you, the Democrats, nominate him? If it weren't for the Scream, Kerry wouldn't have been nominated.

KCWolfman
02-12-2005, 03:39 PM
Oh no? Then why didn't you, the Democrats, nominate him? If it weren't for the Scream, Kerry wouldn't have been nominated.
No, he lost the nom the night he screamed, he knew it. That is why he acted a fool in a national spotlight. He wanted to appear solid, together, and happy and it was too much of a strain for him and he cracked. He fully expected to win that evening and he was crushed.

I pray that the people like jAZ and Denise carry the weight of the Dem party and they tout Dean to the head of the table in 2004. That will certainly insure another 4 years of possible scrapped failed government programs and more seats on the SC.

WilliamTheIrish
02-12-2005, 05:43 PM
He screamed once in public once. ONCE.

It is ridiculous how far out of proportion the whole yelling thing has been blown. Every time you find yourself thinking that he is a mad man try to remind yourself that you are basing the sanity of a man based upon a one time occurrence of public screaming.

I am sure that many republicans get angry when liberals make the claim that Bush is retarded or at least an idiot based upon the numerous times he has mispoken during public speaking. It is not any different to assume Dean is crazy because he got overly excited and screamed while speaking.

It is too bad that it seems in the political world that people see everything as just a one way street and 90% refuse to see things both ways.

After reading through the rest of this thread I have realized why I usually stay out D.C. and in the Lounge. People are far more rational about football then they are politics :)

The scream ain't what killed him. He was still alive and well after the scream. He dropped dead when he went into the south and claimed he was tired of southerners votes being determined by "God, guns and gays."

He fell right off the radar after that.

headsnap
02-12-2005, 05:52 PM
Howard Dean...








it goes to ELEVEN!!!!!!!

:)

Mosbonian
02-12-2005, 06:09 PM
The scream ain't what killed him. He was still alive and well after the scream. He dropped dead when he went into the south and claimed he was tired of southerners votes being determined by "God, guns and gays."

He fell right off the radar after that.

Hand that man a box of the finest cigars.....and a bottle of cognac.

mmaddog
*******

Joe Seahawk
02-12-2005, 07:34 PM
I heard Ward Churchill nearly got the job..

http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/Spring%202004/Images/EduChurch.jpg

jAZ
02-13-2005, 02:15 AM
True, but "ONCE" was enough to label the guy as half crazy with millions of people. For the Dems to make him the leader of the pack is even crazier.
The Republicans seemed to have some success making this bozo the leader of their pack.

"The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's job to interpret law." óGeorge W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000

"Never again in the halls of Washington, D.C., do I want to have to make explanations that I can't explain." óGeorge W. Bush, Portland, Oregon, Oct. 31, 2000

"Bill wrote a book at Yale. I read one." óGeorge W. Bush, on William F. Buckley, Al Smith Dinner, New York City, Oct. 19, 2000

"If I become president, we're going to have emergency-room care, we're going to have gag orders." óGeorge W. Bush, third presidential debate, St. Louis, Missouri, Oct. 18, 2000

"Our priorities is our faith." óGeorge W. Bush, Greensboro, N.C., Oct. 10, 2000

trndobrd
02-13-2005, 02:31 AM
The Party chair will only get as much media attention as he wants. Time will tell whether Dean wants to use his impressive organizational abilities behind the scenes to rebuild a moderate/new/Clintonesque Democratic party, or is determined to further split the Dems by serving as a media lighting rod.

My money says he will seek the spotlight and further alienate moderate democrats.

KCWolfman
02-13-2005, 08:38 AM
The Republicans seemed to have some success making this bozo the leader of their pack.



According to the last vote, it was not just Republicans - someone is a bozo on their very own to make that assumption.

jAZ
02-13-2005, 10:12 AM
According to the last vote, it was not just Republicans - someone is a bozo on their very own to make that assumption.
You've really hit rock bottom.

I've been back reading this site for all of 2 days and I see you have adopted as your own the RINGLEADER-esque artform of making up things that were never said, simply so that you have SOMETHING to attack.

RL loves to twist words so that he can find something that was never there to begin with that he can criticize.

I'll wait while you show me where...
1) The Republicans DIDN'T nominate Bush for President (twice)
2) I made any statments saying that NO ONE other than Republicans made Bush leader of anything.

As many other flaws as you had, there was a day when you were above such petty games. But that day seems to be a long time ago.

Just know that one alternative is to say nothing. It was your best choice in this situation.

Michael Michigan
02-13-2005, 10:27 AM
Just know that one alternative is to say nothing. It was your best choice in this situation.

Just like a lib.


Trying to squelch speech.

jAZ
02-13-2005, 10:39 AM
Just like a lib.


Trying to squelch speech.
:p

RINGLEADER
02-13-2005, 10:39 AM
You keep eating up what the pro-Republican Media is putting out. You won't see it coming that way.


ROFL

Dean and the Dems essentially say "We need to retain our beliefs and values, but talk about being pro-abortion and pro-taxes and anti-military in a different way".

As someone said quite correctly the Dems have a problem with the dishes they're serving, not how they're describing them on the menu.

Dean got way too much credit for mobilizing the grassroots (once Kerry was the nominee he had no problem getting online donations and mobilizing the same kind of support Dean lost with). I think Dean is barking up the wrong tree with respect to going after Red states as well...they have virtually no shot in the upcoming mid-terms of taking any Red state seats and he'll be lucky if he's able to hold onto the Blue states (especially in the senate).

But the GOP should give the guy the credit he deserves...anyone who thinks he can attract independents by boasting that he wants to be the first gay president or that he thinks it's a good idea to reserve judgment on the guilt of Usama bin Laden can't be all bad. ROFL

RINGLEADER
02-13-2005, 10:42 AM
The Republicans seemed to have some success making this bozo the leader of their pack.

"The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's job to interpret law." óGeorge W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000

"Never again in the halls of Washington, D.C., do I want to have to make explanations that I can't explain." óGeorge W. Bush, Portland, Oregon, Oct. 31, 2000

"Bill wrote a book at Yale. I read one." óGeorge W. Bush, on William F. Buckley, Al Smith Dinner, New York City, Oct. 19, 2000

"If I become president, we're going to have emergency-room care, we're going to have gag orders." óGeorge W. Bush, third presidential debate, St. Louis, Missouri, Oct. 18, 2000

"Our priorities is our faith." óGeorge W. Bush, Greensboro, N.C., Oct. 10, 2000


ROFL

Difference is that 62 million people wanted Bush to be president last year. The only think Dean could win in the same time period is a majority of votes from a group of lefties that numbered less than 500.

Talk about setting your goals low.

ROFL

Bwana
02-13-2005, 10:50 AM
The Republicans seemed to have some success making this bozo the leader of their pack.



And yet he laid a first class azz whooping on the best thing the other side put out there to beat him. :moon: Says a lot about good old Kerry.

Don't worry JaZ, I'm sure your boy Dean will whip your heros into shape and win the next one. ROFL

RINGLEADER
02-13-2005, 10:52 AM
You've really hit rock bottom.

I've been back reading this site for all of 2 days and I see you have adopted as your own the RINGLEADER-esque artform of making up things that were never said, simply so that you have SOMETHING to attack.


I know you like to believe that I twist words Jaz, but I let your leaders do their own talking. If Dean is such a consensus choice you might be able to explain why so many Dems are reluctant to endorse his views.

Anyway, I've offered a few dozen times for you to point out something I said that was factually inaccurate so that I could correct myself and you never have come through, but I'll give you another shot at it.

I only hope you again repeat your claims that there is no evidence that Kerry has flip-flopped on any issue or that the CBS memos aren't fakes. ROFL ROFL ROFL

jAZ
02-13-2005, 11:21 AM
I know you like to believe that I twist words Jaz, but I let your leaders do their own talking.
Not more than 3 posts apart.
Dean and the Dems essentially say "We need to retain our beliefs and values, but talk about being pro-abortion and pro-taxes and anti-military in a different way".
Yep, you never twist words.

alanm
02-13-2005, 11:26 AM
Just like a lib.


Trying to squelch speech.To be fair you should have said "Only when it doesn't conform to their views".
:thumb:

Michael Michigan
02-13-2005, 12:12 PM
To be fair you should have said "Only when it doesn't conform to their views".
:thumb:

Ha! :)


It was just a TIC comment.

Michael Michigan
02-13-2005, 12:14 PM
Heh.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/orl-asecflgays13021305feb13,0,465766.story?coll=sfla-news-florida

Rebel Dean inspires gays in Florida

A Democratic caucus meeting in Orlando sets its sights on revitalizing unity in the gay community.

By Tania deLuzuriaga
Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted February 13 2005

With a rebel now heading the Democratic Party, Florida's gay Democrats vowed Saturday to be puppets of their party no longer and to bring social issues to the front of their party's concerns.

"I don't want to reach across the aisle; I want to win," said Orlando City Commissioner Patty Sheehan, who is openly gay. "Republicans used our community as a wedge in the [2004] election."

Sheehan was one of about 40 Democrats from across the state to attend the quarterly meeting of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transsexual Caucus of the Florida Democratic Party in Orlando. Agreeing that a lack of organization hurt Democrats in November, they said unity will be vital if they are to overcome roadblocks to gay civil rights.

"We have four more years with [President] George [Bush], and we have a big X on our heads," caucus President Michael Albetta said.

Already, a group with ties to conservative Christians has launched a petition to ban gay marriage in Florida. The group hopes voters in 2006 will amend the state constitution to declare that marriage is a union between "only one man and one woman" and that no other kind of union is equivalent to marriage.

State law bans same-sex marriage, but an amendment would remove the Legislature's authority to change that.

In addition to social issues, the caucus is focused on the re-election campaign of Democratic U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson and the Florida governor's race, both in 2006.

November's election, in which the issue of gay marriage figured prominently, "was a real wake-up for a lot of gays," said delegate Warren Day of Pompano Beach. "A lot of us hadn't realized how hostile things were. We thought we were beyond that."

The caucus also heard from Scott Maddox, chairman of the Florida Democratic Party, who called Saturday afternoon from the Democratic National Committee meeting in Washington.

Maddox promised to offer more political candidates "with guts," saying that in the last election "our candidates were afraid to tell what was exactly in their hearts." Several members of the caucus criticized Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry for running a presidential campaign that was too cautious and never took a hard stand.

"We're liberal; we're not in the middle," said Donnell Morris of Fort Lauderdale. "Let's get away from that."

News that former Vermont governor and presidential candidate Howard Dean had been elected the new chairman of the DNC was met with cheers and a standing ovation from the crowd.

Although Dean's strong opinions and caustic comments have sometimes led to controversy, caucus members said he understands gay issues and realizes that gays and lesbians are a vital part of the Democratic Party.

"Democrats have always prided themselves on being a grass-roots party," said Katy Peterson of Wilton Manors. "That's what we're getting back to."

KCWolfman
02-13-2005, 12:31 PM
You've really hit rock bottom.

I've been back reading this site for all of 2 days and I see you have adopted as your own the RINGLEADER-esque artform of making up things that were never said, simply so that you have SOMETHING to attack.

RL loves to twist words so that he can find something that was never there to begin with that he can criticize.

I'll wait while you show me where...
1) The Republicans DIDN'T nominate Bush for President (twice)
2) I made any statments saying that NO ONE other than Republicans made Bush leader of anything.

As many other flaws as you had, there was a day when you were above such petty games. But that day seems to be a long time ago.

Just know that one alternative is to say nothing. It was your best choice in this situation.
The indoctrination is complete. You are a pathetic little man

stevieray
02-13-2005, 12:56 PM
You've really hit rock bottom.

I've been back reading this site for all of 2 days and I see you have adopted as your own the RINGLEADER-esque artform of making up things that were never said, simply so that you have SOMETHING to attack.

RL loves to twist words so that he can find something that was never there to begin with that he can criticize.

I'll wait while you show me where...
1) The Republicans DIDN'T nominate Bush for President (twice)
2) I made any statments saying that NO ONE other than Republicans made Bush leader of anything.

As many other flaws as you had, there was a day when you were above such petty games. But that day seems to be a long time ago.

Just know that one alternative is to say nothing. It was your best choice in this situation.

Just like Kerry, too arrogant and elitist to relate. Exactly the reason Kerry lost and your party has a spaz heading it. The best part is watching you waste eight years of your life in your quest of vicariously living though the turmoil you drag around.

I really hope you don't subject your wife to politics 24/7.

DenverChief
02-13-2005, 01:01 PM
too arrogant and elitist to relate.

says the guy who dictates lifestyle from a book

stevieray
02-13-2005, 01:04 PM
says the guy who dictates lifestyle from a book

which book?

DenverChief
02-13-2005, 01:05 PM
which book?

c'mon

stevieray
02-13-2005, 01:06 PM
c'mon

c'mon what? spit it out...no pun intended

DenverChief
02-13-2005, 01:08 PM
c'mon what? spit it out...no pun intended

playing dumb belittles you...take a good guess at what "good" book I'm talking about

stevieray
02-13-2005, 01:11 PM
playing dumb belittles you...take a good guess at what "good" book I'm talking about

playing dumb? why don't you just say it?

What does the Bible have to do with Kerry being an arrogant elitist?

I realize you have to put Christians in a box to survive, maybe you should do some soul searching as why you have to bring Christianity into the mix.

Lifestyle? I'm secure enough in my skin that I don't have to let people know what I am before who I am.

stevieray
02-13-2005, 01:12 PM
playing dumb belittles you...take a good guess at what "good" book I'm talking about

more arrogance.

Rausch
02-13-2005, 01:13 PM
playing dumb belittles you...take a good guess at what "good" book I'm talking about

Are you doubting Chuck Palahniuk's grasp on the male psyche? :cuss:

KCWolfman
02-13-2005, 01:17 PM
says the guy who dictates lifestyle from a book
Funny coming from someone who wants to do the same as a lawyer.


Do you prefer matte or glossy finish with your black paint?

RINGLEADER
02-13-2005, 01:22 PM
Not more than 3 posts apart.

Yep, you never twist words.


ROFL

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-dems13feb13,0,82763.story?coll=la-home-headlines

He described the party's core principles as "fiscal responsibility and socially progressive values," and said Democrats simply need to do a better job communicating their views.

Now, if you want to claim Jaz that by "socially progressive values" he didn't mean pro-abortion and didn't mean pro-gay marriage and by "fiscal responsibility" he didn't mean tax cuts (when that is what both he and most Democrats ran on last election) then go ahead and disprove that conclusion with fact.

And just to give you a little head's up, Dean himself has already defined what these terms mean to him...just trying to help you avoid stepping in it more than you already have.

But thanks for the laughs...I knew you couldn't point to any examples with facts...

jAZ
02-13-2005, 03:15 PM
Now, if you want to claim Jaz that by "socially progressive values" he didn't mean pro-abortion and didn't mean pro-gay marriage and by "fiscal responsibility" he didn't mean tax cuts (when that is what both he and most Democrats ran on last election) then go ahead and disprove that conclusion with fact.
So much for your claim that you don't need to twist words, you merely rely on their words directly.

Or maybe you didn't just restate Dean's words twice now. You even provided the quote and had to twist in the very same post.

beavis
02-13-2005, 03:33 PM
I heard Ward Churchill nearly got the job..

http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/Spring%202004/Images/EduChurch.jpg
He wasn't liberal enough.

BigMeatballDave
02-13-2005, 03:35 PM
c'mon what? spit it out...no pun intended
ROFL

BIG_DADDY
02-13-2005, 04:26 PM
Guess he's now the leader of the party.

I could not support him as leader of the country but I think he could do a good job as leader of the Dems. :thumb:

Your a phucking moron. He is a socialist who will not get the support of those he needs to in order raise money to resurrect the party because he is way too far off to the left. He will further destroy the party and your too phucking stupid to understand that. I do not want to see a one party system in our country but because there are tards like you out there supporting socialists like Dean in the democratic party that's exactly what we are going to continue to have. I have siad it for years now, you and people like you are the best allies the Republican party ever had.

DenverChief
02-13-2005, 05:16 PM
playing dumb? why don't you just say it?

What does the Bible have to do with Kerry being an arrogant elitist?



You called Kerry and the Dems arrogant...I said look in the mirror pal

jAZ
02-13-2005, 05:18 PM
Your a phucking moron. He is a socialist who will not get the support of those he needs to in order raise money to resurrect the party because he is way too far off to the left.
I love how people can speak so passionately about a topic they are so ignorant about. Eat up the republican media machines cartoon image of Dean. It's what you want to do anyway.

Don't mind that the NRA thinks you sound like an idiot.

BigMeatballDave
02-13-2005, 05:30 PM
I love how people can speak so passionately about a topic they are so ignorant about. Eat up the republican media machines cartoon image of Dean. It's what you want to do anyway.

Don't mind that the NRA thinks you sound like an idiot.I think Dean is a Leftist nut. I've heard him speak. I don't like him. I don't care what anyone says about him.

RINGLEADER
02-13-2005, 06:08 PM
So much for your claim that you don't need to twist words, you merely rely on their words directly.

Or maybe you didn't just restate Dean's words twice now. You even provided the quote and had to twist in the very same post.


Then why don't you provide me with what you feel his definition of fiscal responsibility and progressive values is then. Because I can point to quotes where he defines them in the manner I stated. If you don't agree I'd be interested to know what you thought he meant.

RINGLEADER
02-13-2005, 06:12 PM
I love how people can speak so passionately about a topic they are so ignorant about. Eat up the republican media machines cartoon image of Dean. It's what you want to do anyway.


Actually, I was watching C-Span when I say Dean behave like a cartoon. Then I read about his "I hate Republicans" comment in the Washington Post. And a couple weeks ago in the doctors office I was reading Newsweek where Pelosi and Reid and Kerry - you know, all your heroes - were supporting anyone but Dean and warning that he wouldn't be making policy...before stating yesterday that Dems would do everything in their power to make sure a bankrupt social security program continues draining money from the treasury well into the 21st century.

If Dean was such a great guy you'd think he could get more than 60% of Dems behind him according to the most recent polls and why do minority Dems eye him with suspicion?

jAZ
02-13-2005, 06:29 PM
Then why don't you provide me with what you feel his definition of fiscal responsibility and progressive values is then. Because I can point to quotes where he defines them in the manner I stated. If you don't agree I'd be interested to know what you thought he meant.
Why are you asking me to do something you claim you can do on your own.

This is your hole. Dig yourself out.

Should be fun to watch.

While you are at it, why don't you explain again how you don't need to twist words, you rely on their own words. I've yet to see any evidence of that, but I have seen multiple examples of you 'paraphrasing' in ways that suit your needs.

jAZ
02-13-2005, 06:33 PM
Actually, I was watching C-Span when I say Dean behave like a cartoon. Then I read about his "I hate Republicans" comment in the Washington Post. And a couple weeks ago in the doctors office I was reading Newsweek where Pelosi and Reid and Kerry - you know, all your heroes - were supporting anyone but Dean and warning that he wouldn't be making policy...before stating yesterday that Dems would do everything in their power to make sure a bankrupt social security program continues draining money from the treasury well into the 21st century.

If Dean was such a great guy you'd think he could get more than 60% of Dems behind him according to the most recent polls and why do minority Dems eye him with suspicion?
What does any of that have to do with Dean's position on issues?

Nothing.

Because you are playing dodgeball.

Throwing out shiney objects that look like something. Ignoring obvious conclusions in your quest to demonize the others.

Never mind that Dean is "VIEWED" (as proven here) as uber-liberal and that Dem party leadership could very well fear the perception of Dean (regardless of how in accurate that perception is). That's certainly an impossible option, right?

stevieray
02-13-2005, 08:29 PM
You called Kerry and the Dems arrogant...I said look in the mirror pal

I called Kerry the same thing his own party and supporters called him.

Why you feel the need to defend Kerry is entertaining. why don't you address your need to bring Christianity into the conversation.

I'm not your pal.

Michael Michigan
02-13-2005, 08:34 PM
Don't mind that the NRA thinks you sound like an idiot.


Is that what you are going to hang your hat on?

The NRA?


Good luck with that.

jAZ
02-13-2005, 09:20 PM
Is that what you are going to hang your hat on?

The NRA?


Good luck with that.
Because the NRA is all about endorsing the most radically liberal candidates they can track down.

Mosbonian
02-13-2005, 09:29 PM
I love how people can speak so passionately about a topic they are so ignorant about.

What were you saying earlier about looking in a mirror?

mmaddog
*******

KCWolfman
02-13-2005, 09:38 PM
What were you saying earlier about looking in a mirror?

mmaddog
*******
And "100% accurate nonetheless"

DenverChief
02-14-2005, 04:49 PM
I called Kerry the same thing his own party and supporters called him.

Why you feel the need to defend Kerry is entertaining. why don't you address your need to bring Christianity into the conversation.

I'm not your pal.


http://images.animationfactory.com/animations/animals/rodents/blind_mouse/blind_mouse_lg_wm.gif

Michael Michigan
02-14-2005, 05:45 PM
Because the NRA is all about endorsing the most radically liberal candidates they can track down.

Huh?

:spock:

jAZ
02-14-2005, 09:48 PM
Huh?

:spock:
This might help...

[/sarcasm]

Michael Michigan
02-14-2005, 10:16 PM
This might help...

[/sarcasm]

Oh I got it--I just can't believe that is the talking point.

Good luck.

jAZ
02-15-2005, 07:38 AM
Oh I got it--I just can't believe that is the talking point.

Good luck.
Either that, or you can't believe that Dean is less liberal than is politically expedient for your purposes.

How many people here care to know that Dean was endorsed by the NRA 8 times?

How many people know that Dean went against his own party in pushing for a balanced budget after becoming Governor (even though Vermont was the ONLY state who's consititution doesn't require a balanced budget)?

How many people know that Dean chose civil unions over a pro-same sex marriage amendment?

Dean might be wild eyed, but he's a moderate Democrat, so all you Democratic Party haters who wished it would become more centrist... there's hope yet.

;)

BIG_DADDY
02-15-2005, 11:21 AM
Eat up the republican media machine.

ROFL **** you tard, live and learn. Dean won't be able to raise shit and it's not my image of him that's going to keep him from doing it.