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View Full Version : How can we build alliances when we criticize our “allies”?


homey
02-25-2005, 11:09 AM
Wasn't that how Bush's campaign lingo went in referring to Kerry?

Putin loses his smile after lecture from Bush on democracy
By Andrew Osborn in Bratislava
25 February 2005
Putin loses his smile after lecture from Bush on democracy

Taras Chaban: Europe's leaders must start standing up to Putin

Leading article: The lesson of George Bush's tour is that Europe needs to pull closer together

President George Bush subjected Russia's Vladimir Putin to a public lecture on the fundamentals of democracy yesterday, injecting a chill into a relationship that has - until now - been characterised by bonhomie.

Meeting in the Slovakian capital, Bratislava, Mr Bush emerged from a three-hour meeting with the Russian President joking and smiling and full of warm words. But his frequent references to "Vladimir" and the "fella" were peppered with targeted criticism of the state of democracy in Russia with which the more hawkish members of his administration are said to have lost patience.

An unsmiling, visibly irritated Mr Putin squirmed as he listened to Mr Bush tell a press conference he had been told that Washington had "concerns about Russia's commitment in fulfilling" the "universal principles" of democracy. "Democracies always reflect a country's customs and culture, and I know that," Mr Bush said. "Yet democracies have certain things in common; they have a rule of law, and protection of minorities, a free press, and a viable political opposition."

Mr Putin had wanted to talk about the two countries' joint efforts to combat terrorism but was forced instead to defend his domestic reforms and his commitment to democracy.

For a man who is seldom subjected to such face-to-face criticism and is famously cool under pressure, he looked at times as if he was about to lose his composure. "I respect some of his [Mr Bush's ideas] a lot and take them into account. Others I won't. [Such issues] should not be pushed to the foreground. New problems should not be created that could jeopardise our relationship. We want to develop the relationship."

Russian officials tried to play down the tension by suggesting the two men's relationship had matured to a level where they could now tell each other things they did not want to hear.

The two men could not, however, have looked more different.

Mr Bush looked satisfied that he had obliged Mr Putin to justify his views on democracy and claimed a statement from the Russian leader vowing not to roll it back was the meeting's most important moment.

Mr Putin said: "Russia chose democracy 14 years ago without any outside pressure. It made this choice for itself, in its own interests and for its people and its citizens. It was a definitive choice and there is no turning back." A return to totalitarianism was impossible, he added.

However he indulged in none of the informal small talk beloved of Mr Bush and looked relieved to exit the stage with a stiff handshake, his face taut with pressure. In Russian official circles, the meeting is likely to be seen as a humiliation.

Mr Bush also used an earlier speech to revel in the success of revolutions in the former Soviet republics of Ukraine and Georgia, revolutions which Moscow opposed. Mr Bush said he hoped for similar progress in Belarus and Moldova. Agreements did emerge. These were to prevent Iran and North Korea from acquiring nuclear weapons, to safeguard nuclear facilities in both countries, to regulate the sale of shoulder-fired missiles and to accelerate Russia's entry into the World Trade Organisation.

Rausch
02-25-2005, 11:20 AM
Bad example.

Putin has manipulated Bush to the point it's just sickening, and Bush is still happy to believe they're the best-est of friends...

the Talking Can
02-25-2005, 12:13 PM
Bad example.

Putin has manipulated Bush to the point it's just sickening, and Bush is still happy to believe they're the best-est of friends...

bingo, and add Saudi Arabia to that list...hell, Pakistan as well- they were caught dealing nuke technology even as we invaded Iraq....

Taco John
02-25-2005, 12:54 PM
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050224/i/r249253624.jpg

Classic!

Any captions out thur?

the Talking Can
02-25-2005, 01:02 PM
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050224/i/r249253624.jpg

Classic!

Any captions out thur?

"It's hard work kissing a tyrant's ass....its hard work..."

roman gnome
02-25-2005, 01:41 PM
<img src=http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050224/i/r249253624.jpg>

"How can I trust this weasel?"..."I call him Rootin`Tootin`Pootin`."

Amnorix
02-25-2005, 01:42 PM
This might be just about the first foreign diplomacy thing by Bush that I agree with.

Putin is pushing the limits of "democracy" in Russia, and I'm glad he was taken to task. In private is good, but in public works too.

Cochise
02-25-2005, 01:44 PM
Another day, and homey is still a moron.

Good to know all is right with the world :thumb:

SBK
02-25-2005, 04:21 PM
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050224/i/r249253624.jpg

"How can I trust this weasel?"..."I call him Rootin`Tootin`Pootin`."

ROFL

Duck Dog
02-25-2005, 05:27 PM
Wasn't that how Bush's campaign lingo went in referring to Kerry?


An unsmiling, visibly irritated Mr Putin squirmed as he listened to Mr Bush tell a press conference he had been told that Washington had "concerns about Russia's commitment in fulfilling" the "universal principles" of democracy. "Democracies always reflect a country's customs and culture, and I know that," Mr Bush said. "Yet democracies have certain things in common; they have a rule of law, and protection of minorities, a free press, and a viable political opposition."



And does Homey disagree with this? You wouldn't be a very good liberal if you did.

StcChief
02-25-2005, 10:16 PM
Putin Another Comunist in disguise.

Bush might endup another FDR communist sympathizer.

SBK
02-26-2005, 01:00 AM
Here's a softball for you libs, but it's not the intention of this post.

Since we're the country with money, and the big military shouldn't we be the ones getting schmoozed? I think that we spend way too much time trying to please the world, when in fact, in most other circumstances we should be the one folks are trying to please.....

whoman69
02-26-2005, 12:24 PM
Here's a softball for you libs, but it's not the intention of this post.

Since we're the country with money, and the big military shouldn't we be the ones getting schmoozed? I think that we spend way too much time trying to please the world, when in fact, in most other circumstances we should be the one folks are trying to please.....
We're the ones trying to gain favor, not the rest of the world. If you are going to criticize an ally, that's better done on a diplomatic levels rather than a pissing match in the media. But Bush is the worst diplomatic President in the history of the US and can't figure that out. He's already pissed away all the goodwill the world had towards us after 9/11 and now WE are the most despised nation on Earth, not the axis of Evil. Strange that the US should be seen in a lower light than Syria, North Korea and Iran.

Brock
02-26-2005, 12:27 PM
Strange that the US should be seen in a lower light than Syria, North Korea and Iran.

Says more about the rest of the world than about us, IMO.

SBK
02-26-2005, 01:35 PM
Says more about the rest of the world than about us, IMO.

That was my point from my earlier post, but I knew it would turn into the Bush is an idiot reply.

patteeu
02-26-2005, 01:36 PM
Of course, in Kerry's case, he was criticizing foreign governments that were clearly working with us. In this case, Bush is criticizing a foreign government that is straddling the fence between working with us and working against us.

patteeu
02-26-2005, 01:42 PM
I wonder how France, Germany, Russia, et al can expect to mend fences with us if they keep being critical, don't you, homey?

Rausch
02-26-2005, 05:05 PM
Of course, in Kerry's case, he was criticizing foreign governments that were clearly working with us. In this case, Bush is criticizing a foreign government that is straddling the fence between working with us and working against us.

I think it's pretty clear they're no longer on the fence. They're in the other guy's backyard...

Calcountry
02-26-2005, 05:27 PM
We're the ones trying to gain favor, not the rest of the world. If you are going to criticize an ally, that's better done on a diplomatic levels rather than a pissing match in the media. But Bush is the worst diplomatic President in the history of the US and can't figure that out. He's already pissed away all the goodwill the world had towards us after 9/11 and now WE are the most despised nation on Earth, not the axis of Evil. Strange that the US should be seen in a lower light than Syria, North Korea and Iran.As a Chief fan, how does it make you feel to see the Patriots hoist yet another Lombardi, almost as if its childs play?

Baby Lee
02-26-2005, 05:32 PM
He's already pissed away all the goodwill the world had towards us after 9/11 and now WE are the most despised nation on Earth, not the axis of Evil.
I am sick of this sound byte. That 'goodwill' was illusory as you get.
It's like this, and I'm sure I'll get guffaws for comparing the US to Paris Hilton, but try to leave the merits of PH the person aside.
Most people resent Paris and her skeevy ways, but she is who she is. Now if she were struck by a car, there'd be an impulse to say "that's too bad, nobody deserves that." She'd get an outpouring of sympathy. Doesn't mean people like her, just that they feel bad for her pain and suffering. And the instant she's healed and back on the runways with her annoying little dog and absurdly short skirts, people would go right back to resenting her.
Likewise, the only way for us to retain that 'goodwill' would have been for us to stop being us. We would not retain goodwill as we showed our resiliance and returned to being a strong nation, no matter how we went about it. We would have had to have remained in a perpetual state of damage and injury.

Baby Lee
02-26-2005, 05:37 PM
Says more about the rest of the world than about us, IMO.
Exactly. They hate us because we're the Paris Hilton of the world. Rich, blingy, entitled, sexy, trampy. etc.
But you know, in the back of their minds, they're all saying "I'd hit it."

Ultra Peanut
02-27-2005, 10:08 AM
homey, you're retarded.

<img src=http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050224/i/r249253624.jpg>

"How can I trust this weasel?"..."I call him Rootin`Tootin`Pootin`."ROFL