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Rain Man
02-28-2005, 11:10 AM
This guy is truly amazing, and I'm interested in this because it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

For those of you watching at home, you may recall the earlier links describing his support for the 9/11 attacks on New York, followed up by links describing how he has lied about being a Native American and how he has been caught putting fake footnotes into his "research" papers.

The latest word now is that he has stolen artwork and sold it as his own work. (This is kind of funny.) Also, keep reading for his policy about getting revenge when he gets a traffic ticket.

http://news4colorado.com/topstories/local_story_055200531.html

'Original' Churchill Art Piece Creates Controversy


BOULDER, Colo. (CBS4) An exclusive report by CBS4 News indicates embattled University of Colorado professor Ward Churchill may have broken copyright law by making a mirror image of an artist's work and selling it as his own.

Placing Churchill's work beside that of renowned artist Thomas E. Mails and the two look like mirror images. But one is a copyrighted drawing. The other is an autographed print by Churchill.

When CBS4 News reporter Raj Chohan tried to talk to Churchill about a possible copyright infringement, he received an angry response.

The following text is a transcription from CBS4's footage of the exchange between Chohan and Churchill on Thursday in the hallway outside his office.

"Get that camera out of my face," Churchill said.

"This is an artwork we've got called 'Winter Attack.' It looks like it was based on a Thomas Mails painting; it looks like you ripped it off. Can you tell us about that?" Chohan asked.

That prompted Churchill to take a swing at Chohan while he held a stack of papers in his hand.

The exchange continued:

Chohan: "Sir, that's assault, you can't do that. Can I ask you about this? It looks like you copied it."

Churchill: "I was just grabbed by the arm. And that (camera) gets out of my face."

Chohan: "Sir, we're allowed to take these pictures, this is a public space."

Churchill: "You're not allowed to grab be by the arm."

Chohan: "He didn't touch you sir, we've got it all on tape. Sir, this is called Winter Attack. It's a serigraph by you. It looks like it was copied from Thomas Mails artwork. Can we talk to you about that please?"

* * *

Churchill made the serigraph in question in 1981 and called it "Winter Attack." He printed 150 copies and sold one of them to Duke Prentup for about $100.

"I have enjoyed them ever since, immensely," Prentup said. "They're, obviously, up in my house."

But last month came a stunning revelation. As Prentup flipped through a book of illustrations by renowned artist Thomas E. Mails, he found an artwork of striking similarity.

"And I opened it up and, wham! There it was," Prentup said. "It's the exact same thing, only mirror image, virtually to every detail."

The pen and ink sketch by Thomas Mails first appeared in his 1972 masterpiece, "The Mystic Warriors of the Plains."

Compare it side-by-side to the serigraph by Churchill, created some 20 years later: the composition, the images, the placement are nearly identical.

Intellectual property attorney Jim Hubbell said it's clearly no accident.

"It's very obvious that the Churchill piece was taken directly from the Mails piece," Hubbell said. "There's just too many similarities between the two for it to have been coincidence."

Several minutes after CBS4's first encounter with Churchill, he emerged from his office and was willing to talk. He acknowledged his artwork was based on the Thomas Mails piece. And, he said he disclosed that during his initial release of the serigraph.

"It is an original art work by me, after Thomas Mails," Churchill said. "The fact that the purchaser was ignorant of the reality of what was perfectly publicly stated at the time the edition was printed is not my responsibility."

A closer examination of the Churchill piece revealed there is no credit given to the original artist. Churchill also refused to provide CBS4 with documentation that would prove his claims.

But even if it exists, it wouldn't be enough to protect Churchill from copyright infringement unless he had permission from the copyright holder.

"Unless there was consent for Churchill to do the piece, then there is a copyright infringement here," Hubbell said.

When contacted at his home in North Carolina, Ryan Mails, the son of the late Thomas Mails said the family still retained the copyrights to the drawings of the Mystic Warriors book, and that his father fiercely defended the copyrights.

"My father invested a great deal of himself in his work, and from that he developed a great fierceness in defending his work," Mails' son said. "I cannot imagine he would ever grant permission to anyone to copy one of his pieces."

Back in Prentup's Boulder County home, the Churchill serigraph still hangs. One quarter Native American himself, Prentup said he loves the image; he's just not sure whose artwork it really is.

"Sure, it makes me angry, it makes me very disappointed," Prentup said. "I wanted some original artwork from what appeared to be a very good local artist. Now I don't know what I've got."

A quick Internet search indicates a number of Churchill pieces selling on eBay, including another copy of "Winter Attack." Certainly, part of the buzz for these art works is the ongoing controversy surrounding Churchill.

University of Colorado Regents are investigating Churchill's work at the university. They are expected to return a decision on whether he has violated tenure by early March.

Next up, check out Ward Churchill's views on being a good citizen. (Michelle Malkin is a newspaper columnist.)

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/001588.htm

WARD CHURCHILL: CAUGHT ON TAPE ADVOCATING TERRORISM
By Michelle Malkin · February 24, 2005 09:08 AM
In August 2003, loony professor Ward Churchill spoke in Seattle before a crowd of moonbats and advised them on how to conduct acts of terrorism. Churchill's voice is unmistakable on these tapes, obtained and released by Denver radio station hosts Dan Caplis and Craig Silverman.

You must hear the the clips to believe them:

(A bunch of other stuff - go to the link if you want to read it.)

Transcript for Part IV:

Churchill on getting revenge for speeding tickets: …And I’m not really comfortable with, since I’m presenting no public hazard ever when I’m ticketed, can attest to that, we can take that further at some point tonight if you’d like to, if you’d like to challenge it, but I’m presenting no public hazard, I’m simply being asked to ante up to pay for my own repression.
Not being comfortable with that, I have a rule of thumb: I smile very politely to the cop, take the ticket, look to see how much the fine is going to be, and before I leave that state, I make sure I cause at least that much property damage in state material before I go, so it’s a wash, boys and girls (laughter and applause).


Now a bunch of stupid Colorado professors have bought an ad trying to keep him from getting fired. My guess is that these are the more incompetent professors who don't want to see a fellow incompetent get fired. They're looking out for themselves, not him. (I want to get hold of this list. I know a moron professor there and want to see if he's on it.)

http://news4colorado.com/topstories/local_story_059075239.html

I despise this policy of buying people out to get them to quit. It happens all the time here in Colorado. Some public employee or official will steal a bunch of money or something, and instead of firing him, the government here will pay him a bunch of money so he'll quit. It's astounding. The best living you could make would be to work for Colorado state government and start stealing stuff.

Ultra Peanut
02-28-2005, 11:15 AM
He is a piece of work.

Cochise
02-28-2005, 11:16 AM
He needs to stop wasting my oxygen.

Baby Lee
02-28-2005, 11:16 AM
Shouldn't your title be "More on the moron?"

WilliamTheIrish
02-28-2005, 11:19 AM
See what happens when you're a CU Buff, Denver Chief?

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 11:19 AM
Shouldn't your title be "More on the moron?"


Rats.

beavis
02-28-2005, 11:20 AM
I hear there are a lot of jobs for nutbag professors in Canada...

Phobia
02-28-2005, 11:21 AM
Not being comfortable with that, I have a rule of thumb: I smile very politely to the cop, take the ticket, look to see how much the fine is going to be, and before I leave that state, I make sure I cause at least that much property damage in state material before I go, so it’s a wash, boys and girls (laughter and applause).

In order to send a true message, you have to cause at least double the damage. Jeez - what an IDIOT.

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 11:26 AM
In order to send a true message, you have to cause at least double the damage. Jeez - what an IDIOT.


Assuming that he's not fired soon, I'm going to remember that Ward Churchill's office is state property the next time I get a ticket.

HC_Chief
02-28-2005, 11:26 AM
Must be nice to have tenure....

Baby Lee
02-28-2005, 11:26 AM
I saw a two hour softball interview of the dude on FSTV last week. Struck me as another small-minded combatant in the war of personalities, as opposed to a true dissident. He just likes the game and the attention.
What was sad was his new Tonto, Russell Means. He sat there beside the dude and singlehandedly revolutionized the concept of the foot shuuffling porter.
The interviewer asked about the allegations that Churchill wasn't even Native American at all. And Means hemmed and hawed and basically announced "we accept him because he likes us. And that's the end of the story."

BIG_DADDY
02-28-2005, 11:31 AM
I hear there are a lot of jobs for nutbag professors in Canada...

I'll bet. They would love him up there.

mikey23545
02-28-2005, 11:36 AM
The education of our youth could not be in better hands...

How many Bronco fans do you think this guy turns out in a year?

Phobia
02-28-2005, 11:40 AM
Do you think you could get this professor's IP address, Kevin? I'd like to compare it to posts made on this board by a user going by the name of memyselfI.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 11:42 AM
The latest word now is that he has stolen artwork and sold it as his own work. (This is kind of funny.) Also, keep reading for his policy about getting revenge when he gets a traffic ticket.



Many folks have given "Jeff Gannon" a pass for doing the same thing...

let's see how much of a pass old Ward is given based on the standards applied to JJGG.

WilliamTheIrish
02-28-2005, 11:44 AM
Aww f*ck,

It was a good thread Kev.

Sincerely,

The mob.

Phobia
02-28-2005, 11:48 AM
Aww f*ck,

It was a good thread Kev.

Sincerely,

The mob.

Yeah, sorry. The moment I invoked her name she arrived. Damn.
:banghead:

WilliamTheIrish
02-28-2005, 11:50 AM
Yeah, sorry. The moment I invoked her name she arrived. Damn.
:banghead:

That's ok.

I'll remind of you of this when we play golf.

Just as your teeing off, I'll say:"D'Nice."


The sound of the ball smacking off a tree will soon follow.

Cochise
02-28-2005, 11:50 AM
Yeah, sorry. The moment I invoked her name she arrived. Damn.
:banghead:

I knew that when Ward Churchill was needing a defender she wouldn't be long in offering a deflection.

Phobia
02-28-2005, 11:51 AM
That's ok.

I'll remind of you of this when we play golf.

Just as your teeing off, I'll say:"D'Nice."


The sound of the ball smacking off a tree will soon follow.

Well, that will probably happen anyway.... At least the tree will be a long way away.

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 11:52 AM
I'm trying to remember - did I post the link last week where he said "it would be a good thing" to brutally murder a cartoonist at a college newspaper whose views disagreed with a friend of his? It's a great story. He also tried to get the kid kicked out of college for using the same 1st amendment rights that he's hiding behind.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3568706,00.html

Not a fond look back
Cartoonist recalls Churchill lashing out against expression

By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
February 23, 2005

Grant Crowell finds it ironic that Ward Churchill was at the University of Hawaii holding forth on free speech Tuesday, because he believes Churchill tried to limit his own when he was a student there.

Crowell authored a cartoon while a student at UH-Manoa in 1994 taking a shot at Haunani-Kay Trask, a professor at the Center for Hawaiian Studies who helped arrange Churchill's return visit there this week.

The 1994 cartoon, which ran in the school paper Ka Leo O Hawaii, triggered charges from some in the university community that Crowell's work was racist.

Crowell's cartoon was a reaction to a poem by Trask, Racist White Woman, which appeared in her book Light in the Crevice Never Seen.

That poem carried lines about avenging the downtrodden by assaulting the "smug and wealthy" with punctured eyes, a knife to the heart, a fist in the mouth.

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/news/022305cartoon.gif

The furor around Crowell's cartoon coincided with a planned 1994 visit by Churchill - also at Trask's invitation.

Churchill, according to Crowell, ended up joining the chorus in lashing out at Crowell at a 1994 public forum where some demanded Crowell be expelled from the school, dropped from the paper's staff and forced into racial sensitivity training. None of those things happened.

News accounts in the school paper of that forum quote Churchill as saying the paper's editorial board "should be ashamed of themselves" for allowing Crowell to express his "racist" editorial cartoon and an accompanying column.

In an interview Tuesday from his home in Carpentersville, Ill., Crowell said Churchill went even further, that day.

"He used the name of an unnamed Nazi cartoonist, who was convicted during the Nuremberg Trials, executed dismembered, and cremated," said Crowell, who attended the 1994 rally where he was assailed.

Nazi propagandist Julius Streicher's Der Sturmer was known for anti-Semitic cartoons, but it was Streicher, not the cartoonist, Phillippe Rupprecht, who was convicted and hanged at the 1946 war crime tribunal.

"Churchill was saying, 'I'm not saying this should happen to Grant - but if it did, it could be a good thing,' " Crowell alleged.

Crowell, who attended CU in 1989-90, and graduated from Hawaii in 1994, is now CEO of an online solutions marketing firm. He said Tuesday he was surprised, more than 10 years after his experience with Churchill, to hear Churchill and his supporters complain that current scrutiny of Churchill's infamous Sept. 11 essay and other writings constitute a witch hunt.

"The point that I'm making is that I am a living example of the fact that Ward Churchill has no interest in freedom of speech when it does not suit his own political agenda, or the agenda of the people who are in the forefront of supporting him right now. And to me, that's a sad thing," said Crowell, who was bounced from the paper's staff in 1991 for helping to create an anonymous flier critical of another columnist at the paper.

"I am very much in favor of Ward Churchill having the same right of free speech I wanted for myself. But Ward Churchill, himself, is a complete hypocrite," Crowell said.

Churchill could not be reached for comment on Tuesday. But Trask, the subject of Crowell's 1994 cartoon, dismissed Crowell as a publicity-seeking egomaniac.

While she recalled the 1994 episode, she said she doubted Churchill would. And, Trask did not at first recall that Churchill even spoke out against Crowell, during his 1994 Hawaii visit.

But when a quote attributed to Churchill during that visit, concerning Crowell, was read to her, Trask confirmed its accuracy.

"Ward was speaking out against racist occurrences on our campus, which included the student paper on which Grant was a cartoonist," Trask said. "He (Crowell) was just one instance, of a whole string of racist editorials and cartoons in the paper. And that's all that it was."

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 11:54 AM
I knew that when Ward Churchill was needing a defender she wouldn't be long in offering a deflection.

Actually, I think he's a disgrace and, unlike those contorting themselves to defend JJGG , am not going to defend the indefensible.

I was merely pointing out the upcoming pile on is going to be a joke...those giving a pass to a poser 'journalist' who copied GOP/WH news releases or plagiarized Fox News, and was paid to do so, will lament Ward Churchill for the SAME dishonesty.

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 11:56 AM
Actually, I think he's a disgrace and unlike those contorting themselves to defend JJGGam, am not going to defend the indefensible.


Isn't it amazing that 200 other professors from his school are racing to his aid? I seriously think it's time to consider shutting down the University of Colorado and making Colorado State University our flagship school. CU-Boulder is just a welfare program for the lunatic fringe and hookers.

WilliamTheIrish
02-28-2005, 11:57 AM
Actually, I think he's a disgrace and, unlike those contorting themselves to defend JJGG , am not going to defend the indefensible.

I was merely pointing out the upcoming pile on is going to be a joke...

You really ought to shut your trap.

There is nobody on this thread defending your boy Gannon.

Over in DC? Yes. Here? No.

Phobia
02-28-2005, 11:58 AM
I was merely pointing out the upcoming pile on is going to be a joke...

A Rabbi, a Priest, and a Eunich walk into a bar....

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 11:58 AM
Isn't it amazing that 200 other professors from his school are racing to his aid? I seriously think it's time to consider shutting down the University of Colorado and making Colorado State University our flagship school. CU-Boulder is just a welfare program for the lunatic fringe and hookers.

I think they are 'coming to the aid' of the first Amendment and not necessarily for him. He's the unfortunate benefactor of them standing on principle.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 11:59 AM
You really ought to shut your trap.

There is nobody on this thread defending your boy Gannon.

Over in DC? Yes. Here? No.

Ah, but they will be here, with bells on, piling on Churchhill. Just watch.

go bowe
02-28-2005, 11:59 AM
Actually, I . . . am not going to defend the indefensible.
. . .jeesh, that never stopped you before... :p :p :p

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 12:01 PM
jeesh, that never stopped you before... :p :p :p

I support his right to say what he wants based on the 1st amendment. Should he lose his job over what he said? Only if he used the University as a springboard for his views. If he used their facility, their time, any of their resources to publish controversial opinions that harm the school then I think they have a legit case to take his job from him.

If he did this ON HIS OWN TIME then I believe they do not.

WilliamTheIrish
02-28-2005, 12:01 PM
Ah, but they will be here, with bells on, piling on Churchhill. Just watch.

Well, had you not brought an irrelevant connection into the thread, I'd not have to watch. Would I?

Bootlegged
02-28-2005, 12:02 PM
Isn't it amazing that 200 other professors from his school are racing to his aid? I seriously think it's time to consider shutting down the University of Colorado and making Colorado State University our flagship school. CU-Boulder is just a welfare program for the lunatic fringe and hookers.

The upside is the authorities will know memeasshair's whereabouts at al times....

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 12:03 PM
Well, had you not brought an irrelevant connection into the thread, I'd not have to watch. Would I?

It's not irrelevent. Bottom line is both of these stories seem to be based on political 'gotchas'.

Let's just see if the left on this board embrace the wrong doings of Churchhill the way some on the 'right' did with JJGG.

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 12:03 PM
I think they are 'coming to the aid' of the first Amendment and not necessarily for him. He's the unfortunate benefactor of them standing on principle.


Interestingly, no one has disputed his First Amendment rights. The outcry here is that he can say whatever he wants, but as a person who lied on his application to the University, doesn't hold a Ph.D., has been caught falsifying research, has sold plagiarized artwork, has published plagiarized research, and has espoused vandalism to 'get even' when he's caught breaking the law, perhaps it isn't in the taxpayers' best interest to pay him $90,000 a year to teach our students.

The professors are just looking out for themselves, because this would be the firing of a tenured professor. If he gets fired, then all of a sudden they'll be held accountable for their own work and ethics, too.

Cochise
02-28-2005, 12:04 PM
Actually, I think he's a disgrace and, unlike those contorting themselves to defend deflection , am not going to defend the indefensible. deflection

I was merely pointing out (deflection)the upcoming deflection is going to be a joke...those giving a pass to a poser deflection who copied deflection news releases or plagiarized deflection, and was deflection, will lament deflection for the deflection.

That's more like it.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 12:05 PM
Interestingly, no one has disputed his First Amendment rights. The outcry here is that he can say whatever he wants, but as a person who lied on his application to the University, doesn't hold a Ph.D., has been caught falsifying research, has sold plagiarized artwork, has published plagiarized research, and has espoused vandalism to 'get even' when he's caught breaking the law, perhaps it isn't in the taxpayers' best interest to pay him $90,000 a year to teach our students.

The professors are just looking out for themselves, because this would be the firing of a tenured professor. If he gets fired, then all of a sudden they'll be held accountable for their own work and ethics, too.

Actually, this STARTED as a dispute about him saying what he said and his right to do so. Bill O'Reilly has had Leis Weihl on his radio show explaining why Chruchhill's remarks are NOT sedition and are not traitor by legal standards, among others who started out with his speech being inappropriate if not illegal.

BOR changed his opinion and wants the guy fired now but originally he did not...that was before this extra stuff came out on closer examination of him and his record.

|Zach|
02-28-2005, 12:06 PM
That's more like it.
heh

go bowe
02-28-2005, 12:07 PM
Ah, but they will be here, with bells on, piling on Churchhill. Just watch.bells on?

is jenny's co-worker coming too?

|Zach|
02-28-2005, 12:08 PM
I saw a thing on CSPAN or some channel of that nature where he was part of a forum. He made some interesting comments and said some stuff I looked into. I thought it was cool that he was taking questions from people that were obviously against him but he is soooo faaarrrr out there and extreme and ridiculous about so many things. In between all of his fecal matter arguments there are a few gems but damn. This guy needs to get a grip and needs to quiot being such a phoney.

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 12:09 PM
you are one twisted rutt.

|Zach|
02-28-2005, 12:10 PM
you are one twisted rutt.
me?

Bootlegged
02-28-2005, 12:12 PM
me?


memememe

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 12:12 PM
Actually, this STARTED as a dispute about him saying what he said and his right to do so. Bill O'Reilly has had Leis Weihl on his radio show explaining why Chruchhill's remarks are NOT sedition and are not traitor by legal standards, among others who started out with his speech being inappropriate if not illegal.

BOR changed his opinion and wants the guy fired now but originally he did not...that was before this extra stuff came out on closer examination of him and his record.

Yeah, I don't know about the talking heads. I agree, though, that it started out with mere criticism about an incredibly distasteful essay, which is within Churchill's rights. The problems for him started when it spurred people to start looking at his work in more detail.

He should've just kept quiet. It's like John Wayne Gacy bringing a plumber down to his basement. If you invite people in, don't be surprised when they start finding the buried bodies.

|Zach|
02-28-2005, 12:14 PM
memememe
ROFL

Bwana
02-28-2005, 12:20 PM
It is a true pleasure to watch this waste of skin crash and burn.

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 12:31 PM
It'd be a damn shame, if churchill's Swap Meet Peace Pipe Caught his greasy hair on fire.

Radar Chief
02-28-2005, 01:03 PM
I support his right to say what he wants based on the 1st amendment.

Good, me too. I’ll just assume that you agree with me in supporting the universities right to fire his ass for being a freak’n moron.

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:15 PM
Good, me too. I’ll just assume that you agree with me in supporting the universities right to fire his ass for being a freak’n moron.


if we fire people becasue they say things that cause you to take sides then no one will ever say anything to make you take a side and we will have complacent "who gives a fack" people....just look at your public education system, it is so vanilla nobody learns hoe to take a side or be passionate about anything.....

Radar Chief
02-28-2005, 01:19 PM
if we fire people becasue they say things that cause you to take sides then no one will ever say anything to make you take a side and we will have complacent "who gives a fack" people....just look at your public education system, it is so vanilla nobody learns hoe to take a side or be passionate about anything.....

If we allow morons to continue to teach in your places of supposed “higher learning” they will produce nothing but morons.

Stinger
02-28-2005, 01:20 PM
if we fire people becasue they say things that cause you to take sides then no one will ever say anything to make you take a side and we will have complacent "who gives a fack" people....just look at your public education system, it is so vanilla nobody learns hoe to take a side or be passionate about anything.....

or spell :D :Poke: j/k

Sorry couldn't resist :p

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:22 PM
If we allow morons to continue to teach in your places of supposed “higher learning” they will produce nothing but morons.


because he has an opinion....thats fine its his opinion and I don't agree with it but it makes me take a side and defend my side and come up with reason why he is wrong...it is called stimulating thought...if everybody agreed in college it would be pretty damn boring

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:23 PM
or spell :D :Poke: j/k

Sorry couldn't resist :p
ROFL I always do that with because

Radar Chief
02-28-2005, 01:26 PM
because he has an opinion....thats fine its his opinion and I don't agree with it but it makes me take a side and defend my side and come up with reason why he is wrong...it is called stimulating thought...if everybody agreed in college it would be pretty damn boring

So, you get “stimulated” by uninformed rhetoric and moronic conspiracy theories?

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:30 PM
So, you get “stimulated” by uninformed rhetoric and moronic conspiracy theories?


yeah cause it whips me into a fervor to prove him wrong...isn't college supposed to be about getting passionate about something? If a professor has to say something controversial to get his students to break their zombie like state and take a stand rather than sit there and pretend like their interested...fine by me...like I said I don't agree with him and I wish I was in his class cause I have no problem takin on a professor in the classroom when I disagree with what they say

Phobia
02-28-2005, 01:32 PM
So, you get “stimulated” by uninformed rhetoric and moronic conspiracy theories?

Did you really have to bring Michael Moore into this?

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:34 PM
Should this guy lose his job? I disagree with him and think it is reprehensible to and a newborn life over a disability...how sick is that?

A controversial professor's career at Princeton University got off to an appropriately contentious start Tuesday, as 14 protesters were arrested on his first day of teaching. Anti-abortion groups and advocates for disabled people have criticized Princeton's hiring of Peter Singer, who has written that severely disabled newborns should be euthanized to end their suffering.

http://chronicle.com/free/99/09/99092303n.htm

Chief Henry
02-28-2005, 01:34 PM
Shouldn't we see an "oops" somewhere in this
thread?

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:36 PM
Should this guy lose his job? I disagree with him and think it is reprehensible to and a newborn life over a disability...how sick is that?



http://chronicle.com/free/99/09/99092303n.htm

more


This fall Professor Peter Singer is set to begin teaching at Princeton University, transferring from a university at Melbourne, Australia. His views have been compared to those held by Nazis.

Professor Singer is author of Animal Liberation, which promotes the idea of extending "personhood" to chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans. He believes parents should have the right to put severely deformed children to death.

His hiring has been defended by Princeton on the basis of academic freedom. His book, Rethinking Life and Death, rejects traditional views of life and death, citing advances in medical science as warrant for shifting ethics. As an example; rather than treating all human life as equal, Singer wants us to "recognize that the worth of human life varies." Further, we need "to respect a person's desire to live or die," and to "only bring human life into the world if they are wanted." http://www.bpc.org/synod/resolutions/063_05.html

Radar Chief
02-28-2005, 01:37 PM
Should this guy lose his job? I disagree with him and think it is reprehensible to and a newborn life over a disability...how sick is that?



http://chronicle.com/free/99/09/99092303n.htm

Dunno, did he lie on his application and teach stupidity?

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:38 PM
Dunno, did he lie on his application and teach stupidity?


that is not the issue...the issue is what he said

KCTitus
02-28-2005, 01:39 PM
yeah cause it whips me into a fervor to prove him wrong...isn't college supposed to be about getting passionate about something? If a professor has to say something controversial to get his students to break their zombie like state and take a stand rather than sit there and pretend like their interested...fine by me...like I said I don't agree with him and I wish I was in his class cause I have no problem takin on a professor in the classroom when I disagree with what they say

A very interesting tack, DenverChief...I find it ironic, however, that you see him as 'going against the grain' and waking people up when he's doing nothing more than mouthing a slightly more extreme version of today's intelligensia think that 'america deserved it'.

Radar Chief
02-28-2005, 01:41 PM
that is not the issue...the issue is what he said

Maybe that’s your issue, but if you’ll read my original post to this topic, you’ll see that I agree he has the right to say what he said. The university also has the right to can his ass for being a moron.
Happy now, everyone expressing their rights. :)

Rausch
02-28-2005, 01:41 PM
more


http://www.bpc.org/synod/resolutions/063_05.html

I can't say I disagree with any of that. I'd have to agree that "the worth of human life varies." I got to watch my grandfather suffer as his kidneys, liver, and lungs slowly failed on him.

There's no doubt in my mind that had there been a painless way to end his suffering he'd have taken it. And I don't blame him.

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:42 PM
A very interesting tack, DenverChief...I find it ironic, however, that you see him as 'going against the grain' and waking people up when he's doing nothing more than mouthing a slightly more extreme version of today's intelligensia think that 'america deserved it'.
Waking them up in the manner of "getting passionate" something...so whats your point?

Rausch
02-28-2005, 01:43 PM
that is not the issue...the issue is what he said

No, that's what put him in the public eye. Once there, the issue is the false claims and illegal activities he appears to be guilty of.

KCTitus
02-28-2005, 01:45 PM
Waking them up in the manner of "getting passionate" something...so whats your point?

Im pretty sure you're smart enough to comprehend my point. Your imputed motives on Churchill is evidence that you've staked out a position that allows you to defend him w/o 'defending' him. It's very good, but transparent to me, anyway.

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:49 PM
I can't say I disagree with any of that. I'd have to agree that "the worth of human life varies." I got to watch my grandfather suffer as his kidneys, liver, and lungs slowly failed on him.

There's no doubt in my mind that had there been a painless way to end his suffering he'd have taken it. And I don't blame him.


I would agree too...when the person is old....but to say one baby's life is worth more than another becasue they are missing fingers or toes well....Steven Hawking might never have been around....

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:50 PM
Im pretty sure you're smart enough to comprehend my point. Your imputed motives on Churchill is evidence that you've staked out a position that allows you to defend him w/o 'defending' him. It's very good, but transparent to me, anyway.

thats your opinion and your entitled to it :)

KCTitus
02-28-2005, 01:52 PM
thats your opinion and your entitled to it :)

Opinion and fact...unless you have some sources that has Churchill stating that his motives are just to 'stimulate' or 'wake up' his students to defend their beliefs...and I thought you didnt 'get' my point.

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 01:57 PM
Opinion and fact...unless you have some sources that has Churchill stating that his motives are just to 'stimulate' or 'wake up' his students to defend their beliefs...and I thought you didnt 'get' my point.


dude college professors don't throw out a disclaimer at the start of class

"WARNING: everything I say is just to stimulate and wake up my students"

DUH! talk about defeating the point thenno one would care because they don't believe him...anyway I don't know if that was his true motives and I highly doubt it but that doesn't matter IMHO he has a controversial opinion which like I said before is much better than being in agreeance all the time....how lame would this board be is we all agreed that the Chiefs should pick up a FA CB a FA MLB and a FA WR and Draft a QB in the first round? Thats my radical opinion and it causes debate ...

Baby Lee
02-28-2005, 01:58 PM
"WARNING: everything I say is just to stimulate and wake up my students"
So, is it your position that he doesn't hold the views he espouses, and has just spouted his rhetoric to reinforce the opposition to them?

Rausch
02-28-2005, 02:00 PM
l....Steven Hawking might never have been around....

He wouldn't have been around if his mother decided to have an abortion either. I disagree with abortion, but I also don't have a problem with someone ELSE deciding it's right for them.

Your kid, your body, not my problem...

KCTitus
02-28-2005, 02:01 PM
dude college professors don't throw out a disclaimer at the start of class

"WARNING: everything I say is just to stimulate and wake up my students"

DUH! talk about defeating the point thenno one would care because they don't believe him...anyway I don't know if that was his true motives and I highly doubt it but that doesn't matter IMHO he has a controversial opinion which like I said before is much better than being in agreeance all the time....how lame would this board be is we all agreed that the Chiefs should pick up a FA CB a FA MLB and a FA WR and Draft a QB in the first round? Thats my radical opinion and it causes debate ...

Aside from the fact that Churchill is simply mouthing a similar opinion to the vast majority of the intelligensia class. It's those that want this yayhoo fired who are stating the controversial opinion here--that being that a tenured fraud/fool be fired.

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 02:03 PM
So, is it your position that he doesn't hold the views he espouses, and has just spouted his rhetoric to reinforce the opposition to them?


I think he does...IIRC this was something written in a published article he wrote ...not actually said in class

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 02:04 PM
Aside from the fact that Churchill is simply mouthing a similar opinion to the vast majority of the intelligensia class. It's those that want this yayhoo fired who are stating the controversial opinion here--that being that a tenured fraud/fool be fired.


and I disagree with them too...wow isn't this fun?

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 02:05 PM
He wouldn't have been around if his mother decided to have an abortion either. I disagree with abortion, but I also don't have a problem with someone ELSE deciding it's right for them.

Your kid, your body, not my problem...


true...yikes don't want to go down the abortion road...but killing a human being after birth because they are missing an eyeball is scary IMO

Rausch
02-28-2005, 02:06 PM
true...yikes don't want to go down the abortion road...but killing a human being after birth because they are missing an eyeball is scary IMO

I wasn't going into specifics, only the generalization that all life is not equal...

KCTitus
02-28-2005, 02:08 PM
and I disagree with them too...wow isn't this fun?

nope. Your attempt to play 'denise' isnt fun. I'll just chalk this one up as yet another far left wing moron that even you cant criticize.

Nice work.

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 02:08 PM
point of concession: If he lied on his application he should be fired....not for saying controversial things

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 02:09 PM
nope. Your attempt to play 'denise' isnt fun. I'll just chalk this one up as yet another far left wing moron that even you cant criticize.

Nice work.


your a prick that can't handle other peoples opinions....maybe you should step away for a day or two?

Rausch
02-28-2005, 02:17 PM
point of concession: If he lied on his application he should be fired....not for saying controversial things

He did. He's not Native American...

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 02:19 PM
He did. He's not Native American...

eh.....those aren't supposed to be made public...unless it was an AA reason for hiring him....maybe if he said he had a Doctorate but really only has a masters....like that football coach:shrug:

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 02:22 PM
point of concession: If he lied on his application he should be fired....not for saying controversial things

So.........Its Acceptable for this Jackhole to say that American's Deserved to Die on 911, steal another artist's work, and promote Vandalism in Colorado because of Free Speech, but a Harvard Professor isn't allowed to have an opinion that Women aren't genetically engineered to be good at Math and Science?

DenverChief
02-28-2005, 02:23 PM
So.........Its Acceptable for this Jackhole to say that American's Deserved to Die on 911, steal another artist's work, and promote Vandalism in Colorado because of Free Speech, but a Harvard Professor isn't allowed to have an opinion that Women aren't genetically engineered to be good at Math and Science?


huh? I disagree with both of them but don't think that should be a basis for firing them....steal another artists work?

alanm
02-28-2005, 02:24 PM
your a prick that can't handle other peoples opinions....maybe you should step away for a day or two?
Now boys.. play nice. :)

alanm
02-28-2005, 02:27 PM
eh.....those aren't supposed to be made public...unless it was an AA reason for hiring him....maybe if he said he had a Doctorate but really only has a masters....like that football coach:shrug:
He was hired on as a Affirmative Action quota. He stated that he was Indian. Since he's not he lied on his App. He should be fired.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 02:39 PM
He was hired on as a Affirmative Action quota. He stated that he was Indian. Since he's not he lied on his App. He should be fired.

Agreed, this is much more an egregious error in the eyes of the College than any moronic opinion he might have expressed.

But then again, I see folks overlooking other people's lies about their past and yet wanting to hold this guy accountable for his.

BIG_DADDY
02-28-2005, 02:48 PM
Agreed, this is much more an egregious error in the eyes of the College than any moronic opinion he might have expressed.

But then again, I see folks overlooking other people's lies about their past and yet wanting to hold this guy accountable for his.

It takes the queen of the terrorist supporters to stick up for this lying thief that supported 9/11. Your such a POS Denise I don't even have words to describe you anymore.

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 02:50 PM
Truthfully, if the guy had made his truly idiotic Nazi statement and been solid otherwise, he'd just be a minor joke except to the families of the people who were killed.

However, those statements drew a lot of scrutiny to him, and he's emerged as a fraud in terms of academics, ethics, and even self-identity. Those are the things that are going to get him removed from his position, and rightfully so.

I think the lesson here is that if you hold a position of responsibility and make an incredibly stupid statement to draw attention to yourself, you'd better have the personal credibility to back up your statement. He doesn't.

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 02:54 PM
huh? I disagree with both of them but don't think that should be a basis for firing them....steal another artists work?

Churchill is something like the Head of Indian Affairs in at CU, correct? Churchill said he was x% Casino-Owner American to qualify for the position. Churchill Lied on his application.

One of Rainman's links, shows a copy of a print he sold as his own work, and the original. He represented it as his own, and its a copyright infringment.

He's promoting destruction of Govt Property.

His opinions are Legal to speak under the 1st Amendment. His Employer, should have the right to fire him, when his public, paid statements, come back negatively on the University, or cost them Money from Donors....regardless of the fact that he's a dirty haired Moron.

The Harvard Prof made a statement, contrary to the Liberal Harvard Agenda. He didn't "lie" on his application.

Both are entitled to Free Speech, Neither should be fired based solely on what they said IMO, however, if those statements have harmfull consequences to the Universities financially, professionally, or in reputation. They could/should be canned.

Churchill's statements, and obvious reach for National spotlight, brought scrutiny to his lies. Same as Politicians, celebrities, criminals who are brought to the forefront.

Churchill is a friggin Kook.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 02:56 PM
Truthfully, if the guy had made his truly idiotic Nazi statement and been solid otherwise, he'd just be a minor joke except to the families of the people who were killed.

However, those statements drew a lot of scrutiny to him, and he's emerged as a fraud in terms of academics, ethics, and even self-identity. Those are the things that are going to get him removed from his position, and rightfully so.

I think the lesson here is that if you hold a position of responsibility and make an incredibly stupid statement to draw attention to yourself, you'd better have the personal credibility to back up your statement. He doesn't.

Yep, doesn't matter if you are a lw hippy professor or a rw former hooker turned 'journalist.' :thumb:

Baby Lee
02-28-2005, 03:00 PM
Yep, doesn't matter if you are a lw hippy professor or a rw former hooker turned 'journalist.' :thumb:
Why do you continue with this stupid line of reasoning? No one is a Gannon-backer. The guy will never get a byline again. Nobody's gonna read anything he writes for anything other than kitsch. No one paid any attention to him before his HOMO!!!!! tendencies were broadcast. Yet you continue to lie and put forth the fiction that we're all some big Gannon cheering section. Gannon is a nobody and the story is a nothing.

OTOH, Churchill is a disgrace on the govt payroll.

The fact that the lynchpin of your argument is something you KNOW to be a lie, should raise some antennae on even your decripit BS-o-Meter.

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 03:02 PM
Yep, doesn't matter if you are a lw hippy professor or a rw former hooker turned 'journalist.' :thumb:

The next time you try to hijack this thread, I'm going to lock the cockpit door and fly it straight into the ground.

Baby Lee
02-28-2005, 03:03 PM
The next time you try to hijack this thread, I'm going to lock the cockpit door and fly it straight into the ground.
When you rile the unflappable Rainster. . . res ipsa loquitor that you are a fuquetard.

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 03:04 PM
Rainman.......I'll rush in and pee on the black box so the flight data is saved....and pay tribute to your selfless sacrifice to Planet and Country in your B29 thread.

jspchief
02-28-2005, 03:06 PM
Truthfully, if the guy had made his truly idiotic Nazi statement and been solid otherwise, he'd just be a minor joke except to the families of the people who were killed.

However, those statements drew a lot of scrutiny to him, and he's emerged as a fraud in terms of academics, ethics, and even self-identity. Those are the things that are going to get him removed from his position, and rightfully so.

I think the lesson here is that if you hold a position of responsibility and make an incredibly stupid statement to draw attention to yourself, you'd better have the personal credibility to back up your statement. He doesn't.

Exactly. He kicked the hive, and now is complaining about being stung.

If you want to argue that he would have never received this amount of scrutiny had it not been for his 9/11 opinions, I'll go ahead and concede that you're probably right. But that what happens when you say inflammatory things. He chose to make himself a target by saying the things he said.

You have the right to say whatever you want, but the rest of the world has the right to think you're an asshole for saying it. And once the rest of the world thinks you're an asshole, they'll line up to drag your skeletons out of the closet.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 03:14 PM
The next time you try to hijack this thread, I'm going to lock the cockpit door and fly it straight into the ground.

Not hijacking. They are two liars, frauds, and phonies on opposite ends of the political spectrum. If we are going to remain consistent in the standards being applied we need to condemn BOTH. And I do.

Let's hope that in the future people who speak out in the fashion that these men did have the personal integrity to have their words stand alone vs. being the floodgate of revelations about the scurrilous nature of their beings.

That being said, our 1st amendment can withstand legal challenges but blog revelations might be another story.

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 03:18 PM
...and they have NOTHING to do with each other.

Shouldn't you be cutting letters out of Cosmo for that next stalker letter to your other favorite Gannon?

Stinger
02-28-2005, 03:20 PM
If we are going to remain consistent in the standards being applied we need to condemn BOTH.

Oh this rich comming from the likes of you ROFL

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 03:21 PM
]...and they have NOTHING to do with each other.[/B]




Sure, they don't for mental midgets who can't see the big picture. If you are not one then you will see the hypocrisy on BOTH sides of the issue when defending one but not the other AND you will also see how their stories are an indication of the state of jeopardy of the First Amendment and public speech.

If you have ANY skeletons in your closet you cannot say anything remotely controversial lest your life be dissected and ruined by blogs who seek to silence you. Interestingly, Bill O'Reilly rants about this almost daily.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 03:21 PM
Oh this rich comming from the likes of you ROFL

I've condemned Churchill on this thread and others.

Brock
02-28-2005, 03:27 PM
Sure, they don't for mental migets who can't see the big picture.

A terminally unemployed welfare momma who has whelped puppies by multiple men and now thinks she's educated because she's going to junior college (aka High School part 2) calling anyone else a mental midget? Priceless.

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 03:27 PM
I wish I could type this slow, with a BIG RED CRAYON.

WHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is defending Rich Gannon's Brother on the board?

One of these assclowns is a Govt Payed INSTRUCTOR OF YOUNG ADULTS WHO LIED and is RADICAL.........the other is some dillhole Former reporter who may or may not like to take it in the can.

Normally, he'd be the one you threw yourself on the grenade for, but I can see why you're getting too dizzy to see that.......now with your Syrian friends being ousted today and all.

I'm not proud of everything I've done in my life, and there may be some things I'd not be proud to see on TV, but a fat broad or two from college would just show that I was Open Minded. Can't think of a single thing that would get me fired.

I've never denounced my country, celebrated the death of our Soldiers or Citizens. I've never lied on a job application or Resume and I've never sold Blatantly plagerized work as my own. This mental Midget would be happy to test his cerebral capacity on a round of "general knowledge" vs you, any day, and twice on sundays, after Church.

"Big Picture" from the queen of tunnelvision is indeed Priceless.

Full Time Employment is a great thing. Try it next decade.

Rain Man
02-28-2005, 03:35 PM
Tell my wife I love her!

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1997/beat-reporting/works/737-1/dive.gif

chief husker
02-28-2005, 03:37 PM
I wish I could type this slow, with a BIG RED CRAYON.

WHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! is defending Rich Gannon's Brother on the board?

One of these assclowns is a Govt Payed INSTRUCTOR OF YOUNG ADULTS WHO LIED and is RADICAL.........the other is some dillhole Former reporter who may or may not like to take it in the can.

Normally, he'd be the one you threw yourself on the grenade for, but I can see why you're getting too dizzy to see that.......now with your Syrian friends being ousted today and all.

I'm not proud of everything I've done in my life, and there may be some things I'd not be proud to see on TV, but a fat broad or two from college would just show that I was Open Minded. Can't think of a single thing that would get me fired.

I've never denounced my country, celebrated the death of our Soldiers or Citizens. I've never lied on a job application or Resume and I've never sold Blatantly plagerized work as my own. This mental Midget would be happy to test his cerebral capacity on a round of "general knowledge" vs you, any day, and twice on sundays, after Church.

"Big Picture" from the queen of tunnelvision is indeed Priceless.

Full Time Employment is a great thing. Try it next decade.


May the Planet be with you my friend

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 04:13 PM
.

Full Time Employment is a great thing. Try it next decade.

LOL, you used to say employment. Until you found out I'm working part time and staying home with the kids the rest. I guess in order for you to remain consistent you'll insist your wife work full time and allow a day care to raise your kids...

but then, maybe not. I've seen you apply different sets of standards relative to your 'beliefs' before. I wonder if one of the JJGG threads might even offer a good example of one. :hmmm:

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 04:23 PM
Aren't your kids in Jr High?
They're at least school age, which accounts for 8hrs per day.

While my kids are Infants, my wife will not work full time, as I do well enough that she doesn't have to. When they're 14, they won't be breast feeding like yours though, so its really not a valid comparison.

jjGannon is an obvious douchebag. You've never seen me Defend him or his actions. You've probably seen that I don't really give a crap, but then again...he's not being paid for his jackassary by taxpayers.

I wouldn't expect someone like you, to comprehend such a complex difference though.


Btw........Put your Greasy hair back under that paper hat, and get me some fresh fries please. No need to supersize them.

memyselfI
02-28-2005, 04:49 PM
Aren't your kids in Jr High?
They're at least school age, which accounts for 8hrs per day.

While my kids are Infants, my wife will not work full time, as I do well enough that she doesn't have to. When they're 14, they won't be breast feeding like yours though, so its really not a valid comparison.

jjGannon is an obvious douchebag. You've never seen me Defend him or his actions. You've probably seen that I don't really give a crap, but then again...he's not being paid for his jackassary by taxpayers.

I wouldn't expect someone like you, to comprehend such a complex difference though.


Btw........Put your Greasy hair back under that paper hat, and get me some fresh fries please. No need to supersize them.


No, one of them is. The other is in elementary school. I work when they are at school but am home when they are home. And trust me, if you ever have offspring of your own you will realize that when they are in JR High and HS they need you at home when they are MORE than they did when they were younger.

The most dangerous hours for kids ages 6 grade thru 12 are the hours from 3-7 pm.

Jenny Gump
02-28-2005, 04:52 PM
The most dangerous hours for kids ages 6 grade thru 12 are the hours from 3-7 pm.

That's because you are home between 3-7. Duh.

go bowe
02-28-2005, 04:59 PM
Yep, doesn't matter if you are a lw hippy professor or a rw former hooker turned 'journalist.' :thumb:hey!

it's people like you that have given hippies a bad name... :( :( :(

Mr. Kotter
02-28-2005, 05:06 PM
I like this new policy; unless it's FB, if Duhnise posts on it....it's shipped off to DC. :thumb:

Mr. Kotter
02-28-2005, 05:08 PM
That's because you are home between 3-7. Duh.

But often without supervision--therein lies the "danger." :hmmm:

go bowe
02-28-2005, 05:20 PM
I like this new policy; unless it's FB, if Duhnise posts on it....it's shipped off to DC. :thumb:eh, it doesn't sound too good to me...

if just posting on a thread throws it into forum hell, she will have way too much power to hijack whatever thread she wants...

i was disappointed to see this moved, i thought it was a good nft and belonged on the front page, where everybody could see it and enjoy the discussion...

Bwana
02-28-2005, 05:51 PM
That's because you are home between 3-7. Duh.

ROFL

Iowanian
02-28-2005, 05:57 PM
How long has it been since this PSYCHO Broad has even peeked into a non-raiduh football thread?

You should Definitely keep an eye on those Kids.......after all, there are people like you all over the net. Seriously, if they're cruising their Moped up for a sip from the tap, its time to wean them off that Hairy Hooter.

Cochise
02-28-2005, 06:35 PM
If I were paying taxes that supported that university I'd be angry.

And having 'free speech' doesn't mean free speech with no reprocussions from what you say. If you're a complete asshat passing yourself off as something you're not, causing an academic distraction, and wasting tax dollars by promoting your fringe agenda in class I'd be writing a letter about you at least.

(I'll bet if he were daily speaking out against homosexuality he would no longer be so gainfully employed)

Libs love him because he's out there advocating things they would like to be promoting but can't for fear of being denounced by anyone with a brain still connected at the stem.

Academia sides with him because he's probably tenured and if he gets canned for being a FOS moron that means that they have to deal with some level of job accountability too (gasp)

Everyone's got a horse in this race, which is why it's such a big deal.

Michael Michigan
02-28-2005, 06:49 PM
That's because you are home between 3-7. Duh.

:hmmm:


:toast:


:clap:

patteeu
02-28-2005, 09:18 PM
Agreed, this is much more an egregious error in the eyes of the College than any moronic opinion he might have expressed.

But then again, I see folks overlooking other people's lies about their past and yet wanting to hold this guy accountable for his.

No you don't, you are just being dense as usual.