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View Full Version : No way we give up a second for Surtain.


Tuckdaddy
03-02-2005, 09:50 AM
It won't happen. We can get a quality CB and keep our draft pick. I would not be real mad if they did give it up but I'll be happier if we don't let Rolle KC without a contract.

Kris Kringle
03-02-2005, 09:51 AM
Agreed. We should keep that draft pick. We've got too many holes to fill. We need all of our draft picks.

Hoover
03-02-2005, 10:12 AM
I agree its too deep of a draft. I could see a 4th and a conditional 3rd next year that could be as high as a 2nd

Hoover
03-02-2005, 10:12 AM
Plus you can make that trade the day of the draft, why do it now? Lets see what we can get in FA which does not cost us any pick.

Amnorix
03-02-2005, 10:16 AM
Plus you can make that trade the day of the draft, why do it now? Lets see what we can get in FA which does not cost us any pick.

IMHO this is the only post on this thread that makes any sense.

Kris Kringle
03-02-2005, 10:16 AM
Plus you can make that trade the day of the draft, why do it now? Lets see what we can get in FA which does not cost us any pick. You're a smart man. I agree.

petegz28
03-02-2005, 10:17 AM
Now let's look at our most recent 2nd rounders......Kawika Mitchell, Eddie Freeman and Junior Siavi.

1 out of those 3 are actually worth the pick.

So I would say based on the last few drafts we have less risk by signing Surtain and giving up a 2nd round pick.

Wallcrawler
03-02-2005, 10:43 AM
Plus you can make that trade the day of the draft, why do it now? Lets see what we can get in FA which does not cost us any pick.


*sigh*

Another one of these threads.....


Look, the problem is not the second round pick. It is Patrick Surtain's long term deal that is the problem.

Do you think for one moment that on the day of the draft that Surtain would just automatically accept a deal that is less than what he expects??

The Chiefs SUCK in the second round. Usually the first round also.

If Surtain would agree to terms with KC for a second round pick, it would be the best move with a second round pick in a long damn time for this organization.

The problem is Carl is most likely lowballing Miami, or Surtain himself. Carl is notorious for not wanting to pay top dollar, and in the case of a Corner, he is going to have to deal out the money at some point.

If Rolle leaves KC without a deal, the Chiefs can kiss their chances of getting him goodbye, because there are plenty of teams who will pay for the services of a top corner, and not try to F them out of their money like Carl does. On top of that, Rolle missed the last 5 games of the season last year with a knee injury. His durability is a concern. He doesnt get hurt often, but when he does, he's out for months on end.


Patrick Surtain has missed barely any games in his entire career. Getting him for a second rounder is a definate bargain. Much better than anyone the Chiefs could possibly draft.

htismaqe
03-02-2005, 10:55 AM
Plus you can make that trade the day of the draft, why do it now? Lets see what we can get in FA which does not cost us any pick.

You're an idiot.

Carl Peterson is in Tampa sitting on his hands while we miss out on all the good free agents!

There are those of us who know how it is, and then there's homers like you.

htismaqe
03-02-2005, 11:07 AM
You're an idiot.

Carl Peterson is in Tampa sitting on his hands while we miss out on all the good free agents!

There are those of us who know how it is, and then there's homers like you.

FYI for those of you giving me rep for the above post:

I'M MAKING FUN OF YOU BY USING SARCASM.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

eazyb81
03-02-2005, 11:08 AM
Plus you can make that trade the day of the draft, why do it now? Lets see what we can get in FA which does not cost us any pick.

On the flipside of that, if we strike out in landing a premier CB in free agency, what stops Miami from raising the asking price for him? It seems like we have bargaining leverage right now, so IMO a 4th this year and a 2nd next year would certainly be worth it.

If we had to give up a 2nd this year for Surtain, why not just try and trade down a few spots in the 1st and pick up a 2nd rounder in the process? With Carl's history of 2nd round picks in the past, I don't think losing that pick is much of a dealbreaker.

keg in kc
03-02-2005, 11:10 AM
You're an idiot.

Carl Peterson is in Tampa sitting on his hands while we miss out on all the good free agents!

There are those of us who know how it is, and then there's homers like you.Porker, the voice of the TRUE FAN™!

Well said, htismacky.

Hoover
03-02-2005, 11:14 AM
You're an idiot.

Carl Peterson is in Tampa sitting on his hands while we miss out on all the good free agents!

There are those of us who know how it is, and then there's homers like you.
Whatever....

It would be stupid for the Chief to make this move now. Let Miami know we are willing to deal, but focus on FA's that we can sign now that do not involve us sending picks to another team.

Would Surtain be a great 2nd round pick? No Doubt

But what if we don't have to make that deal because we signed Rolle or Smoot for the same type of cash Surtain wants?

htismaqe
03-02-2005, 11:15 AM
Whatever....

It would be stupid for the Chief to make this move now. Let Miami know we are willing to deal, but focus on FA's that we can sign now that do not involve us sending picks to another team.

Would Surtain be a great 2nd round pick? No Doubt

But what if we don't have to make that deal because we signed Rolle or Smoot for the same type of cash Surtain wants?

Hoover, PM me.

I have some replacement parts for your sarcasm meter I'd like to sell you.

htismaqe
03-02-2005, 11:18 AM
For those of you giving me negative rep after I revealed the post as sarcasm, please note:

Calling someone an idiot IS sarcasm. I don't really think Hoover is an idiot. I actually agree with him.

dirk digler
03-02-2005, 11:19 AM
Whatever....

It would be stupid for the Chief to make this move now. Let Miami know we are willing to deal, but focus on FA's that we can sign now that do not involve us sending picks to another team.

Would Surtain be a great 2nd round pick? No Doubt

But what if we don't have to make that deal because we signed Rolle or Smoot for the same type of cash Surtain wants?

From what Denny Thum said today that is exactly what the Chiefs are thinking. It is not the amount of money Surtain is wanting but it is giving up the 2nd round pick. I honestly don't understand that thinking since CP's 2nd round picks have been abysmal and that is being nice.

Sure-Oz
03-02-2005, 11:20 AM
We always blow our 2nd rounders, just trade it

Hoover
03-02-2005, 11:28 AM
Hoover, PM me.

I have some replacement parts for your sarcasm meter I'd like to sell you.
Sorry about that, you threw me a loop. We are on the same page 90% of the time

Wallcrawler
03-02-2005, 11:45 AM
But what if we don't have to make that deal because we signed Rolle or Smoot for the same type of cash Surtain wants?



Because Surtain is worth a big contract, due to his performances, and his history of not missing many games. The guy is probably the Best corner available to the Chiefs right now. Ty Law would be the very best if he were healthy.


Samari Rolle is a great corner, but has some big durability concerns. Missed the final 5 games of the season last year with a knee injury, and was hurt the previous season also. If he could guarantee that he could play every game, fine, sign him and keep the pick. But there are no such guarantees. You just go on past history. Surtain has missed very few games, Rolle misses many games when he is injured.


Fred Smoot is a pretty good corner, but I dont think he is worth the same amount as Patrick Surtain is. If they pay that much for Smoot and overpay just to keep a second round pick that they will blow anyway, that is ridiculous.

Trade the pick, get the proven guy, and get your money's worth. Its not like the Chiefs are actually going to get anyone worth a damn in the second anyway....

If they had better history drafting, Id be all for keeping the pick. But as far as that goes, the Chiefs have to be in the bottom of the league in drafting. Our drafts suck frothy jars of ass annually, and Id like to see one of them go to getting a GOOD player for once.

eazyb81
03-02-2005, 11:48 AM
Because Surtain is worth a big contract, due to his performances, and his history of not missing many games. The guy is probably the Best corner available to the Chiefs right now. Ty Law would be the very best if he were healthy.


Samari Rolle is a great corner, but has some big durability concerns. Missed the final 5 games of the season last year with a knee injury, and was hurt the previous season also. If he could guarantee that he could play every game, fine, sign him and keep the pick. But there are no such guarantees. You just go on past history. Surtain has missed very few games, Rolle misses many games when he is injured.


Fred Smoot is a pretty good corner, but I dont think he is worth the same amount as Patrick Surtain is. If they pay that much for Smoot and overpay just to keep a second round pick that they will blow anyway, that is ridiculous.

Trade the pick, get the proven guy, and get your money's worth. Its not like the Chiefs are actually going to get anyone worth a damn in the second anyway....

If they had better history drafting, Id be all for keeping the pick. But as far as that goes, the Chiefs have to be in the bottom of the league in drafting. Our drafts suck frothy jars of ass annually, and Id like to see one of them go to getting a GOOD player for once.

Well said.

ROYC75
03-02-2005, 11:53 AM
IMHO, if we trade # 2 away for Surtain, be ready for CP to trade down to replace it with another pick.

htismaqe
03-02-2005, 11:55 AM
IMHO, if we trade # 2 away for Surtain, be ready for CP to trade down to replace it with another pick.

I totally agree.

keg in kc
03-02-2005, 11:59 AM
Trade down and draft another Omar Easy in the first and Kris Wilson in the second.

philfree
03-02-2005, 12:05 PM
Trade the pick already! :) It don't matter if the players we get come from FA or the draft just as long as we get the number of players we set out to and address our needs.


PhilFree :arrow:

ROYC75
03-02-2005, 12:21 PM
Trade down and draft another Omar Easy in the first and Kris Wilson in the second.

Call what you wish.... But if we do the trade, and the the Chiefs are actually going to reshape the D on FA,IMHO our draft picks will be to reload OL and OBotF, along with depth on defense.

keg in kc
03-02-2005, 12:22 PM
our draft picks will be to reload OL and OBotFOBotF? Offensive buffoon of the future?

TEX
03-02-2005, 12:29 PM
Trade the pick already! :) It don't matter if the players we get come from FA or the draft just as long as we get the number of players we set out to and address our needs.


PhilFree :arrow:

Exactly! :thumb:

htismaqe
03-02-2005, 12:41 PM
We're going to take a WR with our first pick. Bank on it.

keg in kc
03-02-2005, 12:44 PM
I want us to take that wideout that ran the 4.25.

buddha
03-02-2005, 12:44 PM
Yes, 2nd round picks are valuable, but not in King Carl's hands!

Surtain has a long term deal, which for us is probably a good thing! We lock up one of the best young corners in the game and consider ourselves lucky.

This isn't a question of being cagey and somehow Miami is going to cave on draft day. Somebody is going to be willing to give them what they want for Surtain, and KC isn't in any position to bargain.

Do it now and get it done!

Hoover
03-02-2005, 12:55 PM
How many years are left on his deal?

If the guy has a bunch of years left on the contract it one thing, but if he is in the last 2 years of his contract, I say sign a FA

Amnorix
03-02-2005, 12:57 PM
How many years are left on his deal?

If the guy has a bunch of years left on the contract it one thing, but if he is in the last 2 years of his contract, I say sign a FA

I'm 99% certain he has just one year left. Something like $8M due for this year.

Hoover
03-02-2005, 01:01 PM
I'm 99% certain he has just one year left. Something like $8M due for this year.
Thats what I thought. You don't trade a 2nd rtound pick for a player who has a huge cap number when you can get a CB in via FA.

So what if we trade or 2nd for him, and either a) He doesn't re do his contract and he a FA next season and we pay his 8mil. Or B) we trade for him, give him a new contract for big money.

I would rather go after Smoot or Rolle and keep the pick, in the long run the money will be the same, but the FA's don't cost us a pick.

keg in kc
03-02-2005, 01:03 PM
So what if we trade or 2nd for him, and either a) He doesn't re do his contract and he a FA next season and we pay his 8mil. Or B) we trade for him, give him a new contract for big moneyAccording to published reports, a new contract is part of the negotiations, we're not going to take him unless he's signed long term.

Wallcrawler
03-02-2005, 01:18 PM
According to published reports, a new contract is part of the negotiations, we're not going to take him unless he's signed long term.


Yep.

Thats been the only hangup in the deal. Surtain for a 2nd rounder would have been done already, but the Chiefs and Surtain's agent have not reached a suitable number for a contract extension.