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View Full Version : Changed my tune - forget Trotter, go for Hartwell


The Bad Guy
03-03-2005, 09:01 AM
The more I read about Ed Hartwell, the more I'm convinced he's the better fit.

He's younger than Trotter, he doesn't have the injury history, and he learned from one of the best LBs in football.

I know that playing along with Ray Lewis may make him a question mark, but when Lewis went down he was dominant.

The guy wants to be a Chief. He came here first after 16 teams contacted him and that's the kind of player I want on this defense.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset over signing Trotter, but I've changed my tune. Go get Hartwell and Rolle.

cookster50
03-03-2005, 09:02 AM
The reason we won't go with Hartwell is because he would be more expensive. Settle for Trotter.

keg in kc
03-03-2005, 09:03 AM
Welcome to my insanity.

HC_Chief
03-03-2005, 09:04 AM
I also prefer Hartwell, but would not be upset if we signed Trotter (#2 on my list - AHEAD of injury-plagued Bell)

The Bad Guy
03-03-2005, 09:04 AM
The reason we won't go with Hartwell is because he would be more expensive. Settle for Trotter.

Settle is a word I don't want to hear from the Chiefs FO.

If Hartwell costs a million or 2 more, you sign him for the simple reason that Trotter can't produce if his knees give out.

Lzen
03-03-2005, 09:04 AM
I wouldn't mind either one. Both have question marks but I still think either would be an upgrade. Problem is that we can't break the bank on just one player. We really need help in the secondary.

keg in kc
03-03-2005, 09:05 AM
Settle is a word I don't want to hear from the Chiefs FO.

If Hartwell costs a million or 2 more, you sign him for the simple reason that Trotter can't produce if his knees give out.For the sake of argument, what if the difference is a lot more than just a million or two?

morphius
03-03-2005, 09:06 AM
Trotter was always a worry for me, I just fear a guy that played last so poorly last time he got big money, and has injury issues.

I wish I knew more about Hartwell, but I really don't.

I just know the Chiefs need a leader and playmaker in the LB group. I think Gun knows this ass well.

The Bad Guy
03-03-2005, 09:07 AM
For the sake of argument, what if the difference is a lot more than just a million or two?

Then I have no problem with Trotter. Trotter is a great consolation prize. But if he wants 2 more million than Trotter then I would go with Jeremiah.

Coach
03-03-2005, 09:07 AM
I think the reason why we have so many FA's here is that I'm assuming the FO is trying to figure who can fit in their salary range, and still be able to have some left over for either future FA additions or the NFL Draft signees.

The Bad Guy
03-03-2005, 09:08 AM
Trotter was always a worry for me, I just fear a guy that played last so poorly last time he got big money, and has injury issues.

I wish I knew more about Hartwell, but I really don't.

I just know the Chiefs need a leader and playmaker in the LB group. I think Gun knows this ass well.

Seriously, before Gibbs got there name one FA that panned out for the Skins? They were like free agent purgatory.

I don't worry about his DC days. He's been humbled and he actually didn't play that bad for DC - the scheme is what killed him.

Coach
03-03-2005, 09:09 AM
Then I have no problem with Trotter. Trotter is a great consolation prize. But if he wants 2 more million than Trotter then I would go with Jeremiah.

I'm with you, but then, I'm all for anyone to at least help out our pussy defense. I don't care if it's either Trotter or Hartwell, just either one is fine with me. I just know we would be dramatically improved in our MLB spot with either one. Each guys have questionmarks, like Trotter's knees, and Hartwell ability to play a 4-3, and whatnot.

nascher
03-03-2005, 09:11 AM
We can almost sign erverybody just cut Guys like Woods, Barber, McCleon and we are in pretty good Salary Cap shape.

HC_Chief
03-03-2005, 09:11 AM
Shit, I wish we'd sign BOTH.
Seriously, if it were to happen, other than those two who in our LB corps is truly capable of starting for any other defense? Fujita and?

The LB corps was a frigging joke last year. Hell, it has been a joke for a while now.

Coach
03-03-2005, 09:13 AM
We can almost sign erverybody just cut Guys like Woods, Barber, McCleon and we are in pretty good Salary Cap shape.

Throw in Johnnie Morton to be cut, and you got a deal.

morphius
03-03-2005, 09:14 AM
Seriously, before Gibbs got there name one FA that panned out for the Skins? They were like free agent purgatory.

I don't worry about his DC days. He's been humbled and he actually didn't play that bad for DC - the scheme is what killed him.
It sticks out more to me because he is not the only Phily player to go elsewhere to be little to no use.

I will not be upset if we sign either one, its just a worry.

keg in kc
03-03-2005, 09:15 AM
I'm a big fan of signing Hartwell, the question is whether we can afford two hugenormous contracts, because I think we're going to get Rolle or Surtain. I think Hartwell's going to demand the most $$ at linebacker, and with the questions about Trotter's knee, I could see his guaranteed money being significantly more. But I also see him as someone who could be a stud for the next 6 or 7 years, one of the leaders we've so desperately needed.

Of course, if our line play isn't any better, particularly at tackle, it won't matter who we have at MLB, because he won't be free to make plays while he's engulfed in bigbody blocks. I say the same thing I said last year: Ryan Sims is still the key to everything. He has to come through this year for us to really improve as much as we want, regardless of who we sign.

So much relies on him. Even with Hartwell or Trotter and Rolle or Surtain or Smoot or Law or whomever.

Warrior5
03-03-2005, 09:17 AM
I also prefer Hartwell, but would not be upset if we signed Trotter (#2 on my list - AHEAD of injury-plagued Bell)

Ditto; Hartwell is my choice, but won't be upset if Trotter is inked. I'm no more sold on Bell than I am Law.

Speculation here on the Planet is running rampant (as expected), but can you imagine the euphoria (and sudden accolades for CP) on this board if Rolle and Trotter were both signed?

Gaz
03-03-2005, 09:18 AM
Sims, Siavii & Dalton. I think that can be an effective rotation. Were it not for the fact that Hicks is carved in stone at DE, I would be satisfied with our DLine.

xoxo~
Gaz
Content, if not thrilled.

HC_Chief
03-03-2005, 09:18 AM
Last night one of the guys on 610 was talking about Kevin Carter possibly coming to KC. I guess he is close w/ Gunther - they were neighbors in TN. I wouldn't be opposed to that... we could use a vet at DT.

Sure-Oz
03-03-2005, 09:20 AM
I wouldnt mind hartwell or trotter, ill be happy with either.

the Talking Can
03-03-2005, 09:24 AM
I want Hartwell because he is young and "seemingly" entering his prime...but I'll dance the happy dance for Trotter as well, knees be damned...

the Talking Can
03-03-2005, 09:26 AM
I say the same thing I said last year: Ryan Sims is still the key to everything.
.

in that case, our season IS already over....better spend all your mojo on Siavii

siberian khatru
03-03-2005, 09:27 AM
If Trotter's knees can hold up for 1-2 years, I'll be satisfied. He'll come cheaper than Hartwell, who's got 16 teams pining for him. (But I've got nothing against Hartwell, who I like as well.)

Gaz
03-03-2005, 09:27 AM
If megabucks are going to be spent [and after last season, they certainly should be spent] then they are better spent on LB Hartwell than CB Rolle, Surtain or Smoot [crippled old Law does not even count].

xoxo~
Gaz
Wants some game day impact from the money [which excludes CB].

keg in kc
03-03-2005, 09:29 AM
in that case, our season IS already over....better spend all your mojo on SiaviiI'm not...hopeful about him, either.

And Gaz, while I don't disagree with your thoughts on MLB or the import of the front 7, I think CB is a priority right now simply for the fact that we only have one. And with several high level candidates on the market, I think we'd be foolish not to sign one.

I also think we can afford to sign more than one big-ticket guy.

HC_Chief
03-03-2005, 09:30 AM
Wants some game day impact from the money [which excludes CB].

Couldn't be more wrong there. CB is key to Gunther's scheme - he loves to blitz and leave receivers in single coverage. If our corners are incapable to playing a receiver one-on-one, the scheme fails (and we end up with the worst D in the league... sound familiar?)

Rukdafaidas
03-03-2005, 09:30 AM
Last night one of the guys on 610 was talking about Kevin Carter possibly coming to KC. I guess he is close w/ Gunther - they were neighbors in TN. I wouldn't be opposed to that... we could use a vet at DT.
That's interesting. Wasn't it Gunther who said that if he were the Rams coach, he would cut Kevin Carter for being so lazy? After the Chiefs blasted the Rams when Gunther was the Chiefs coach.

HC_Chief
03-03-2005, 09:32 AM
That's interesting. Wasn't it Gunther who said that if he were the Rams coach, he would cut Kevin Carter for being so lazy? After the Chiefs blasted the Rams when Gunther was the Chiefs coach.

Guess he changed his tune once Carter came to TN. Gun was blasting Carter for being lazy in StLoser. Once they ran him, he refocused. He played pretty well for TN.

Fat Elvis
03-03-2005, 09:34 AM
Hartwell is used to playing behind a piss poor D-line....

Gaz
03-03-2005, 09:41 AM
There is a big difference between “we don’t need no stinkin’ CB” and “we don’t need no stinkin’ supahstah CB.”

We need an upgrade at CB. McCleon and Bartee are that bad. However, we do not need Surtain or Smoot or Rolle. They are going to cost a ton of money, even though the NFL is handcuffing them.

Spend the $$$ for a top-tier LB. Spend $$ for a lesser light at CB and draft a CB in the 1st Round.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders when people stopped actually reading what he writes.

htismaqe
03-03-2005, 09:44 AM
After reading the stuff about Hartwell wanting to be a Chief, he's moved back into my #1 spot on the wish list...

nmt1
03-03-2005, 09:46 AM
There is a big difference between “we don’t need no stinkin’ CB” and “we don’t need no stinkin’ supahstah CB.”

We need an upgrade at CB. McCleon and Bartee are that bad. However, we do not need Surtain or Smoot or Rolle. They are going to cost a ton of money, even though the NFL is handcuffing them.

Spend the $$$ for a top-tier LB. Spend $$ for a lesser light at CB and draft a CB in the 1st Round.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders when people stopped actually reading what he writes.


I stopped reading when I figured out that you're nothing but a mouthpiece for the organization and a shill Carl apologist. You're really Bob Moore, aren't you?

keg in kc
03-03-2005, 09:47 AM
Wonders when people stopped actually reading what he writes.Wonders when Gaz started believing people actually read what he writes.

:evil:

htismaqe
03-03-2005, 09:48 AM
I stopped reading when I figured out that you're nothing but a mouthpiece for the organization and a shill Carl apologist. You're really Bob Moore, aren't you?

Rufus Gaz.

Gaz
03-03-2005, 09:52 AM
Wonders when Gaz started believing people actually read what he writes.

:evil:

Oh, that was cold.

xoxo~
Gaz
Frostbitten.

keg in kc
03-03-2005, 09:53 AM
Cold? Me? Nooooo.

Call me Mr. Freeze.

HipHopper4Life
03-03-2005, 09:56 AM
A 12 million signing bonus wasn't enough to get Kendrell Bell signed. The diffrence between what Trotter gets and what Hartwell and Bell get is going to be huge.

The Giants, somewhat surprisingly, also came out of the gate aggressively, offering Steelers free agent linebacker Kendrell Bell a deal that included a $12 million signing bonus.

King_Chief_Fan
03-03-2005, 09:58 AM
The more I read about Ed Hartwell, the more I'm convinced he's the better fit.

He's younger than Trotter, he doesn't have the injury history, and he learned from one of the best LBs in football.

I know that playing along with Ray Lewis may make him a question mark, but when Lewis went down he was dominant.

The guy wants to be a Chief. He came here first after 16 teams contacted him and that's the kind of player I want on this defense.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset over signing Trotter, but I've changed my tune. Go get Hartwell and Rolle.

my choices all long,,,,,,,,
get with the program Carl

The Bad Guy
03-03-2005, 10:03 AM
There is a big difference between “we don’t need no stinkin’ CB” and “we don’t need no stinkin’ supahstah CB.”

We need an upgrade at CB. McCleon and Bartee are that bad. However, we do not need Surtain or Smoot or Rolle. They are going to cost a ton of money, even though the NFL is handcuffing them.

Spend the $$$ for a top-tier LB. Spend $$ for a lesser light at CB and draft a CB in the 1st Round.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders when people stopped actually reading what he writes.


Anthony Henry - a second tier CB - received a 10 million dollar signing bonus from the Cowboys. No decent corner is going to be cheap.

A lesser CB and a rookie CB aren't going to cut it in this division. Not with Moss, Porter, Gates, Rod Smith and Lelie.

I'm sick of having a lesser CB on the roster. I'm sick of settling for the Crocketts, McCleons and Cris Dishman's of the world.

HC_Chief
03-03-2005, 10:04 AM
Anthony Henry - a second tier CB - received a 10 million dollar signing bonus from the Cowboys. No decent corner is going to be cheap.

A lesser CB and a rookie CB aren't going to cut it in this division. Not with Moss, Porter, Gates, Rod Smith and Lelie.

I'm sick of having a lesser CB on the roster. I'm sick of settling for the Crocketts, McCleons and Cris Dishman's of the world.


Aww c'mon, as long as we have all-world LBs it'll be okay. Why, I bet Hartwell is such a stud he can play run AND cover receivers at the same time! :thumb:

DenverChief
03-03-2005, 10:05 AM
The more I read about Ed Hartwell, the more I'm convinced he's the better fit.

He's younger than Trotter, he doesn't have the injury history, and he learned from one of the best LBs in football.

I know that playing along with Ray Lewis may make him a question mark, but when Lewis went down he was dominant.

The guy wants to be a Chief. He came here first after 16 teams contacted him and that's the kind of player I want on this defense.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset over signing Trotter, but I've changed my tune. Go get Hartwell and Rolle.


Exactamundo its the injury thing that bothers me the most

Chiefs Pantalones
03-03-2005, 10:07 AM
I'm a big fan of signing Hartwell, the question is whether we can afford two hugenormous contracts, because I think we're going to get Rolle or Surtain. I think Hartwell's going to demand the most $$ at linebacker, and with the questions about Trotter's knee, I could see his guaranteed money being significantly more. But I also see him as someone who could be a stud for the next 6 or 7 years, one of the leaders we've so desperately needed.

Of course, if our line play isn't any better, particularly at tackle, it won't matter who we have at MLB, because he won't be free to make plays while he's engulfed in bigbody blocks. I say the same thing I said last year: Ryan Sims is still the key to everything. He has to come through this year for us to really improve as much as we want, regardless of who we sign.

So much relies on him. Even with Hartwell or Trotter and Rolle or Surtain or Smoot or Law or whomever.

I agree, and I'd like to add that it won't make any difference who we have at MLB if we don't get another OLB. Barber is gone for 8 weeks when the season starts, and Fujita is a question mark still, IMO. We need a MLB (Hartwell) and a cheap but not too cheap OLB.

Cormac
03-03-2005, 10:10 AM
We need a MLB (Hartwell) and a cheap but not too cheap OLB.

I agree. Get Trotter/Hartwell and somebody like Gold. Even if we have to rely on a rookie CB opposite Warfield (major risk), I'd prefer to add 2 top LBs and then go from there. We have ZERO playmaking on our D, and I think LB is where we are most likely to find some.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-03-2005, 10:15 AM
I agree. Get Trotter/Hartwell and somebody like Gold. Even if we have to rely on a rookie CB opposite Warfield (major risk), I'd prefer to add 2 top LBs and then go from there. We have ZERO playmaking on our D, and I think LB is where we are most likely to find some.

I still want to add someone like Rolle or Surtain, as well, we're only going to have room for one though. I'd prefer Rolle so we don't give up the 2nd pick this year, although if it were a pick next year, I'd do it. And yes I know that the Chiefs are crap when it comes to drafting but I'm feelin' lucky this year lol, but we'll probably be disappointed again. Although, if it were up to me, I'd go after Rolle. We might just get lucky with our draft this year for the first time in ages.

Sure-Oz
03-03-2005, 10:32 AM
Hartwell and Rolle, then i wont care who else we add, it will be bonus time after that!

Vegas_Dave
03-03-2005, 12:19 PM
Hartwell and Rolle, then i wont care who else we add, it will be bonus time after that!

Agreed. I would be most impressed if they did not sign anyone other then Hartwell & Rolle and then re-signed Fujita. He is a great LB and keeps getting better. put him next to a guy like Hartwell and he will excel.

Personally, I also liked Barber. If hes healthy, I would be very happy with Fujita, Hartwell & Barber as our starting LB's. Barber suffered by not having a strong MLB as did Fujita.

Also, I think that Warfield & Rolle would make a good CB combo.

Cochise
03-03-2005, 12:22 PM
Allright! Next time I change my mind about something, I'll create a new thread just so everyone knows. Don't want anyone in the dark about that.

HolmeZz
03-03-2005, 12:31 PM
I've been more on the Trotter bandwagon because I think he can be a great leader, would be cheaper, and is more of a playmaker than Hartwell. I'd gladly take Ed though; no complaints.

Gaz
03-03-2005, 12:31 PM
Give me Hartwell [just say no to Trotter's knees] and any CB except Law or Surtain [unless the Dolphins drop the 2nd Round draft pick nonsense] and I will be happier than I was yesterday. I would consider it a waste to pay that kind of money for a CB, but we are headed for Rebuild City in a year anyway, so the cap hit does not matter as much.

We would still need a FA OLB and a draft CB, but the major hurdles would have been, well, hurdled.

xoxo~
Gaz
Easier to please than some.

Cormac
03-03-2005, 12:45 PM
I still want to add someone like Rolle or Surtain, as well, we're only going to have room for one though. I'd prefer Rolle so we don't give up the 2nd pick this year, although if it were a pick next year, I'd do it. And yes I know that the Chiefs are crap when it comes to drafting but I'm feelin' lucky this year lol, but we'll probably be disappointed again. Although, if it were up to me, I'd go after Rolle. We might just get lucky with our draft this year for the first time in ages.

Adding Rolle or somebody would be gravy. I just think we need 2 starting LBs to pair with Fujita. I'd prefer to take a chance with a rookie or a lower tier CB starting opposite Warfield, than to rely on Beisel or Fox at OLB (assuming we add Hartwell or Trotter for the middle).

JMO.

Mr. Laz
03-03-2005, 01:30 PM
Hartwell is only 16 months younger than Trotter

Hartwell has been in the league 3 yrs less than trotter though