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View Full Version : Oakland the loser in the Randy Moss trade


Dave Lane
03-03-2005, 01:03 PM
Interesting article Has a little Chiefs info as well.

Dave

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=nfl/misc/scrimmage.htm

By Tony Moss
NFL Editor

Tony Moss Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - In a city that had just watched its baseball team dispense with two of the sport's best young pitchers, the news was greeted with widespread euphoria. The Oakland Raiders had all but sealed a deal to bring one of the NFL's most dynamic players, Randy Moss, to town, and on the surface, the trade appeared one-sided. The Silver and Black gave up nothing more than an underachieving linebacker, Napoleon Harris, and a nameless, faceless No. 7 pick in the upcoming draft to the Vikings.

The collective mouths of Raider nation watered over the prospect of Moss, recently re-signed standout Jerry Porter and young speedsters like Ronald Curry and Doug Gabriel striding down the field at Network Associates Coliseum, picking footballs out of the air like grapes from a vine. Comparisons were immediately made between the new-look Oakland offense and that of the Colts, with the names Moss, Porter, Curry stacking up favorably with Harrison, Wayne, and Stokley.

But just when Raider fans had begun securing accommodations for Super Bowl XL in Detroit, those annoying devil's advocates reared their ugly heads. Guys like me. For while Moss will likely continue his Pro Bowl exploits in Oaktown, the Raiders still aren't a solid bet to reach the postseason.

First of all, who builds their team in the image of Indianapolis, anyway? Yes, Indy has the most exciting offense in the league, but the last time I checked, the Colts hadn't reached a Super Bowl since a good 13 years before Bob Irsay snuck the franchise out of Baltimore in the middle of the night.

And the comparison only rings true if you think Kerry Collins holds a candle to Peyton Manning, which he most certainly does not. Yes, it will be hard for even Collins to screw up this embarrassment of riches, but he's still in the bottom tier of the league's starters and has won three postseason games in 10 pro seasons.

Randy Moss
Randy Moss has offically become an Oakland Raider.
The Raiders had the NFL's lowest-rated rushing attack last season, and as of this writing, Collins has no idea who he will be handing off to in 2005. Conventional wisdom points to the team's starter being former Jet and current free agent LaMont Jordan, but Jordan has never started a game in four NFL seasons and has to be considered a gamble. Sort of like Amos Zereoue. Or Ricky Williams.

An even larger issue is the manner in which Oakland plans to revamp a defense that finished 31st in the league in sacks, was 30th against the pass, and 22nd against the run.

The daunting task of fitting Moss and Porter under the salary cap for any considerable length of time means Oakland will likely deal its best and most expensive defensive player, cornerback Charles Woodson. With that No. 7 pick shipped away to the land of 10,000 lakes and few remaining dollars to sign another high-level free agent, where do the Raiders plan on finding a difference-maker for that side of the ball? The second round?

As much as Minnesota will have to scramble to replace Moss' presence on the field, Mike Tice and company have actually come out on the winning end of this deal. They've excised a major off-the-field headache, first and foremost.

The Vikings have also gotten big-time value in return. The Bears' recent acquisition of Muhsin Muhammad means a wide receiver is unlikely to go among the first six picks, leaving the door open for Minnesota to nab a new playmaker like Braylon Edwards (Michigan) or Mike Williams (USC) at No. 7. The Viking offense didn't fall apart when Moss missed the equivalent of five games due to injury in 2004, and Daunte Culpepper is talented enough to keep the attack running at a comparable level, especially with a young gun like Edwards or Williams to ease the transition.

Losing Moss' salary also helps the team to more easily address its myriad defensive needs, making the addition of a much-needed free agent like defensive tackle Pat Williams or safety Kenoy Kennedy a greater possibility. The Vikings could also find an immediate starter with their second selection of the first-round, which will come at No. 18.

Minnesota has not struck a deal that has made it an instant competitor to Philadelphia in the NFC, but in the relatively weak NFC North, the Vikings should have short odds to be a division winner.

That's much more than can be said for the Raiders, who made a big splash, but in hamstringing the filling of the franchise's more pressing needs, failed to see the big picture.

Below is a quick glance at the free agent priorities, potential additions and subtractions of all 32 NFL teams (as of 3/2, 7pm ET):

ARIZONA - The Cardinals need a reliable backup quarterback behind Josh McCown, and could have their sights set on Tampa Bay castoff Brad Johnson, who played under Dennis Green with the Vikings. Kurt Warner is another possibility there. A proposed trade of tackle L.J. Shelton for Buffalo's Travis Henry appears to be dead in the water, but Shelton will be gone one way or another. On defense, the Cardinals are in the running to land end Reggie Hayward, who will not re-sign with the Broncos.

ATLANTA - The Falcons didn't make much of a ripple by releasing defensive end Travis Hall, defensive tackle Ed Jasper, or safety Cory Hall on Tuesday, but the probable loss of free agent return specialist Allen Rossum, a Pro Bowler, will be more significant. Cap constraints make the Falcons unlikely to do much free agent shopping prior to the draft.

BALTIMORE - The Ravens got the No. 1 wide receiver they were desperately seeking when former Titan Derrick Mason signed on Wednesday, but lost center Casey Rabach to the Redskins the same day. With cap room to spare, Baltimore will target offensive line help, and the probable losses of LB Ed Hartwell and DE Marques Douglas will likely lead to some signings among the defensive front seven.

BUFFALO - The Bills will watch as two of their largest players, defensive tackle Pat Williams and offensive tackle Jonas Jennings, defect via free agency. Drew Bledsoe is already gone to Dallas, so the team could be after a veteran to back J.P. Losman. The Travis Henry-to-Arizona deal appears to have been shelved, but the team will continue to explore trade options, preferably ones that include line help in return for the running back.

CAROLINA - Muhsin Muhammad is now a Bear, but the presence of Steve Smith and Keary Colbert means the Panthers won't panic. The team released cornerback Artrell Hawkins, quarterback Rodney Peete and guard Doug Brzezinski, but it could resign the latter two. Packers guard Mike Wahle has been mentioned as a possible replacement for Brzezinski. Pro Bowl linebacker Mark Fields is an unrestricted free agent, but could return. Carolina GM Marty Hurney is not a regular player on the free agent market, preferring to build through the draft.

CHICAGO - The Bears filled their most immediate need when they signed receiver Muhsin Muhammad, and also received a bit of addition-by-subtraction when they subsequently released David Terrell. Chicago needs a veteran QB to back Rex Grossman, and reports out of the Windy City suggest that Jay Fiedler is a more likely option than Kurt Warner.

CINCINNATI - Running back Rudi Johnson's decision to sign his one-year tender answered the Bengals' biggest offseason question. The team isn't expected to make a huge splash in the free agent market, but it will be in the running for linebacker Ed Hartwell, who played under Marvin Lewis when the latter was defensive coordinator in Baltimore, to solidify a weak middle.

CLEVELAND - In an effort to revamp the shaky defense, the Browns inked a tentative deal to send defensive tackle Gerard Warren to the Broncos for a fourth-round draft choice, and also released safety Robert Griffith. Cleveland is also expected to lose cornerback Anthony Henry via free agency. If the Browns can't re-sign free agent Kelly Holcomb, they may focus on Jay Fiedler while preparing to select either Alex Smith (Utah) or Aaron Rodgers (California) with the No. 2 pick in the upcoming draft.

DALLAS - As usual, the Cowboys will be among the busiest free agent players, and have already signed quarterback Drew Bledsoe while releasing Pro Bowl linebacker Dexter Coakley and end Marcellus Wiley. Dallas is targeting Browns CB Anthony Henry and Jets DT Jason Ferguson to assist last year's struggling defense, and must release or trade Vinny Testaverde at some point.

DENVER - The Broncos have struck a tentative deal to acquire defensive tackle Gerard Warren from the Browns in exchange for a fourth-round draft choice, but will probably lose DE Reggie Hayward and S Kenoy Kennedy to free agency. On offense, running back Rueben Droughns is likely gone, guard Dan Neil was released, and negotiations are ongoing with guard Ben Hamilton.

DETROIT - The Lions re-signed center Dominic Raiola, and appear close to signing veteran QB Jeff Garcia to compete with Joey Harrington for a starting job. Detroit has major needs on the offensive line, particularly at left guard and right tackle, and is also looking for a playmaker at strong safety.

GREEN BAY - The Packers have already released veteran left guard Mike Wahle and could lose Marco Rivera from the right side. Safety Darren Sharper, one of the team's most reliable defensive players, will test the free agent market. Starting defensive end Aaron Kampman and backup running back Najeh Davenport are non-tendered restricted free agents, meaning interested teams could pick them up in exchange for a late-round draft pick. Green Bay is not expected to be aggressive in signing free agents.

HOUSTON - The Texans re-signed defensive back Damarcus Faggins, will likely lose free agent nose tackle Seth Payne, and should otherwise be relatively quiet prior to draft day.

INDIANAPOLIS - The prospect of trading running back Edgerrin James, who was tagged as the franchise player, remains out there. The Colts will lose three defensive starters in LB Rob Morris, FS Idrees Bashir and CB Nick Harper, and a trade for James would probably be made only if one of those areas could be bolstered. Guard Rick DeMulling is the only remaining offensive free agent that the team is likely to lose.

JACKSONVILLE - Franchise designee and strong safety Donovin Darius signed his one-year tender, but wants to be traded. Don't count on that happening, as the price tag is too high. The Jags re-signed tight end Kyle Brady, are interested in a receiver to complement Jimmy Smith and Reggie Williams, and have expressed serious interest in DE Reggie Hayward.

KANSAS CITY - The Chiefs were close to signing middle linebacker Jeremiah Trotter as of Wednesday night, and are also in the market for available cornerbacks such as Ty Law, Ken Lucas, Fred Smoot, and Samari Rolle. Kansas City released DE Vonnie Holliday, and will have to replace him. Offense is less of a priority for the team, though it would not be a shock to see the Chiefs bolster their receiving corps.

MIAMI - Nick Saban's first offseason saw the Dolphins release Jay Fiedler, and other offensive pieces like wideout David Boston and tackle Damion McIntosh will also be gone unless they re-structure their contracts. Miami will probably look to the draft for a running back, but the possibility of a trade for Edgerrin James still exists. On defense, cornerback Patrick Surtain has requested a trade, and linebacker Junior Seau will have to re-structure his deal or walk, and free agent LB Morlon Greenwood will likely pursue a better deal elsewhere. The Fins are reportedly targeting linemen Marques Douglas and Vonnie Holliday to help out in the trenches, and have also discussed dealing DT Jeff Zgonina to St. Louis.

MINNESOTA - After trading Randy Moss to Oakland for Napoleon Harris and a first-round pick, the need to re-sign tight end Jermaine Wiggins could become more pressing. The Vikings are expected to make most of their free agent waves on defense, where strong safety Kenoy Kennedy and defensive tackle Pat Williams are potential targets. A linebacking corps that could lose free agent Chris Claiborne could also see some new faces.

NEW ENGLAND - The Super Bowl champs released cornerback Ty Law and inside linebacker Roman Phifer, and declined the option on wideout/defensive back Troy Brown. The team is working to re-sign Brown, however. All of the moves were made to enhance the prospect of a new, lucrative deal for Tom Brady. The club re-signed tackle Brandon Gorin, and franchised kicker Adam Vinatieri, but could lose guard Joe Andruzzi via free agency. The Patriots are typically not into landing high-priced free agents, but with a recent stroke muddling the future of linebacker Tedy Bruschi, the team could look to find some veteran insurance there.

NEW ORLEANS - The Saints slapped the franchise tag on defensive end Darren Howard, but with Charles Grant and Will Smith already present at that position, could dangle him as trade bait. New Orleans also resigned strong safety Jay Bellamy and linebacker James Allen, but will likely lose tackle Victor Riley and wideout Jerome Pathon. The team will look to add a veteran offensive lineman or two, and is reportedly also interested in Houston free agent nose tackle Seth Payne.

N.Y. GIANTS - The Giants' top priority is at middle linebacker, where the team is likely to go after Kendrell Bell (Steelers) or Antonio Pierce (Redskins). Jay Fiedler, who played for Tom Coughlin in Jacksonville, could be signed as a backup to QB Eli Manning. The Rams have reportedly offered Orlando Pace to fill the G-Men's tackle needs, but with the price too high, the team is more likely to steal Kareem McKenzie from the Jets. Defensive line help is another notable need for New York. Ron Dayne and Kurt Warner are among the big names that will not return to the team in 2005.

N.Y. JETS - The proposed Santana Moss-Laveranues Coles trade appears to be off the table, but with Derrick Mason going to the Ravens on Wednesday, the Jets and Redskins may re-explore it. Defensive tackle Jason Ferguson and running back LaMont Jordan are as good as gone, and tackle Kareem McKenzie should re-locate as well. The Jets would like to replace McKenzie with the Bills' Jonas Jennings, the jewel of this year's free agent tackle class. The team needs a backup QB, and is expected to be in the Brad Johnson sweepstakes. New York also needs cornerback help, and could look to extricate Fred Smoot from the Redskins.

OAKLAND - The Silver and Black made headlines by acquiring Randy Moss from the Vikings in exchange for a first-round pick and linebacker Napoleon Harris, and also released guard Frank Middleton, safety Ray Buchanan, and tight end Roland Williams. Oakland has major needs at running back and throughout the defense, but saw their budget take a hit when cornerback Charles Woodson unexpectedly signed a one-year tender. Woodson could be dealt. The Raiders released Tyrone Wheatley and were close to signing running back LaMont Jordan on Wednesday. The team also remains interested in defensive end Reggie Hayward.

PHILADELPHIA - The Eagles' loss of Jeremiah Trotter to the Chiefs appeared imminent on Wednesday night, and the team must now turn their attention to Antonio Pierce (Redskins) and Ed Hartwell (Ravens) as possible answers at middle linebacker. If they strike out on both, the Birds might be forced to move Mark Simoneau back to MLB. Philly should re-sign Keith Adams to play weak side LB, a move that could hasten Ike Reese's exit. The Eagles franchised defensive tackle Corey Simon rather than letting him test the free agent market. On offense, running back Brian Westbrook signed his one-year tender and is a restricted free agent, and also inked Correll Buckhalter to back him. The team has no pressing need to replace free agent defections in guard Jermane Mayberry and fullback Jon Ritchie, as Shawn Andrews and Josh Parry remain to take over those respective slots.

PITTSBURGH - The Steelers will lose wideout Plaxico Burress, tackle Oliver Ross, linebacker Kendrell Bell, guard Keydrick Vincent (free agents), and cornerback Chad Scott (released), but have players on the roster to fill each one of those spots. Larry Foote, who will permanently replace Bell, was signed to a five-year deal on Wednesday; Pittsburgh also re-signed running back Jerome Bettis and kicker Jeff Reed, and Pro Bowl linebacker James Farrior agreed to re-structure his deal.

ST. LOUIS - The Rams began overhauling their defense on Wednesday, when they signed former Cowboy Pro Bowl LB Dexter Coakley. St. Louis, which will wave goodbye to DE Bryce Fisher, S Antuwan Edwards, LB Tommy Polley, is probably far from done on that side of the ball. The team is reportedly interested in re-acquiring DT Jeff Zgognina, now with Miami and a favorite of head coach Mike Martz. On offense, where guard Chris Dishman and Tom Nutten are both expected to retire, much attention will be paid to the line. The Rams re-structured Marshall Faulk's deal, and despite the thin makeup in the trenches, could let franchised tackle Orlando Pace go to a high enough bidder.

SAN DIEGO - After franchising QB Drew Brees and cutting WR Tim Dwight and DT Jason Fisk, the Chargers are not expected to make many further roster changes prior to the draft. The Bolts could target Allen Rossum to replace Dwight as the return specialist, but most of their energies during this period will be devoted to re-signing tight end Antonio Gates.

SAN FRANCISCO - The Niners released defensive end Brandon Whiting, who was unimpressive after coming over from Philadelphia in the Terrell Owens deal, following a failed physical. San Francisco could lose free agent wideout Cedrick Wilson, but is working to re-sign kicker Todd Peterson. Linebacker Julian Peterson, who missed most of last season with a torn Achilles, was designated as the team's franchise player.

SEATTLE - The NFL team with the greatest number of free agent questions has already re-signed QB Matt Hasselbeck and tackle Walter Jones, franchised running back Shaun Alexander, and released wideout Jerry Rice and linebacker Anthony Simmons. Still in doubt are the statuses of cornerback Ken Lucas, defensive end Chike Okeafor and offensive linemen Robbie Tobeck, Chris Gray and Floyd "Pork Chop" Womack, with Lucas the most attractive to other teams.

TAMPA BAY - The Bucs released QB Brad Johnson, wide receiver Joe Jurevicius and linebacker Ian Gold, but Jurevicius and Gold could still return. Brian Griese will return to serve as the starting quarterback, and running backs Mike Alstott, Michael Pittman and Charlie Garner restructured their contracts in order to remain with Tampa. On defense, safety Jermaine Phillips did the same. With Joey Galloway likely to be gone, the Bucs could target a wide receiver via free agency.

TENNESSEE - Following the "purge" that saw the Titans wave goodbye to WR Derrick Mason, CB Samari Rolle, DT Kevin Carter, T Fred Miller, K Joe Nedney, and FB Robert Holcombe, Tennessee will not be major players on the free agent market. They could, however, try to lure Carter back with a new deal.

WASHINGTON - The Redskins first set to stabilizing their offensive line, resigning tackle Chris Samuels and luring center/guard Casey Rabach from the Ravens. With Rod Gardner likely gone and Laveranues Coles seeking a trade, Washington is in need of receiving help. A proposed deal sending Coles to the Jets in exchange for Santana Moss appears to be dead. Plaxico Burress could land in the nation's capital. Elsewhere, the Skins will work to re-sign middle linebacker Antonio Pierce and cornerback Fred Smoot.

Coach
03-03-2005, 01:14 PM
KANSAS CITY - The Chiefs were close to signing middle linebacker Jeremiah Trotter as of Wednesday night, and are also in the market for available cornerbacks such as Ty Law, Ken Lucas, Fred Smoot, and Samari Rolle. Kansas City released DE Vonnie Holliday, and will have to replace him. Offense is less of a priority for the team, though it would not be a shock to see the Chiefs bolster their receiving corps.

Ha, replacing Vonnie Holliday is a easy task. Holliday was a joke. Glad to see that he's gone.

Cochise
03-03-2005, 01:19 PM
Kansas City released DE Vonnie Holliday, and will have to replace him.

Actually, we don't need to replace him. He didn't leave a vacancy.

Dave Lane
03-03-2005, 01:20 PM
Ha, replacing Vonnie Holliday is a easy task. Holliday was a joke. Glad to see that he's gone.

Interesting thing is that Dolphins are thinking of signing him. Could we have packed him and a 4th rounder for Surtain? Would have made the trade alot more paltable.

Dave

ChiefGator
03-03-2005, 01:44 PM
Interesting thing is that Dolphins are thinking of signing him. Could we have packed him and a 4th rounder for Surtain? Would have made the trade alot more paltable.

DAMNIT CARL!!

oldandslow
03-03-2005, 01:50 PM
The problem with this analysis...

"The Vikings have also gotten big-time value in return. The Bears' recent acquisition of Muhsin Muhammad means a wide receiver is unlikely to go among the first six picks, leaving the door open for Minnesota to nab a new playmaker like Braylon Edwards (Michigan) or Mike Williams (USC) at No. 7. The Viking offense didn't fall apart when Moss missed the equivalent of five games due to injury in 2004, and Daunte Culpepper is talented enough to keep the attack running at a comparable level, especially with a young gun like Edwards or Williams to ease the transition."

is that the vikes need defense as bad as the Chiefs do. I would have a very hard time spending that pick on a WR with all those holes on the other side of the ball.

I did read the other day that the Vikes were something like 30 million under the cap after the Moss trade. That may be the reason they end up on the positive side of the trade. I suspect you can buy quite a bit of defense with 30 mil.

Phobia
03-03-2005, 02:13 PM
Interesting thing is that Dolphins are thinking of signing him. Could we have packed him and a 4th rounder for Surtain? Would have made the trade alot more paltable.

Dave

Absolutely not. He had a poison pill roster bonus due that made releasing him absolutely necessary.

Mr. Laz
03-03-2005, 02:14 PM
Absolutely not. He had a poison pill roster bonus due that made releasing him absolutely necessary.

yep...

Dave Lane
03-03-2005, 02:53 PM
Absolutely not. He had a poison pill roster bonus due that made releasing him absolutely necessary.

I know but he could have waived it to make a deal with the Dolphins or agree to deal him once he makes a long term deal with the Dolphins like we want to do with Syrtain.

Dave

Lzen
03-03-2005, 03:12 PM
I know but he could have waived it to make a deal with the Dolphins or agree to deal him once he makes a long term deal with the Dolphins like we want to do with Syrtain.

Dave

I'm guessing most of the NFL already knew the Chiefs planned to release Holliday. Especially with the emergence of Jared Allen.

Lzen
03-03-2005, 03:13 PM
As far as the Raiduhs, I agree with the article. They needed defense and a running game in a big way. This was a stupid move. Which makes me ROFL. :D

beer bacon
03-03-2005, 03:14 PM
As far as the Raiduhs, I agree with the article. They needed defense and a running game in a big way. This was a stupid move. Which makes me ROFL. :D

What if they get Lamont Jordan?

Lzen
03-03-2005, 03:32 PM
What if they get Lamont Jordan?

Like the article states, he's a gamble. He hasn't started an NFL game. Of course, when you're behind someone like Curtis Martin, it's kinda hard to get playing time. Either way, it's obvious they need defense much more than a WR. Just like the Chiefs.