View Full Version : This team has a lot more problems than talent, execution, & inept play calling....
12-05-2000, 08:46 PM
Other people have made the point and I concur that the latter half of this season reminds them of 98. Why? Gun & Marty both lost control. The players don't respect the guys in the booth, question their play calling, and it shows in the production between the white lines. I truly believe the veterans when they say Gun is a players coach and adored by most players but he's lost control this year and forever as far as I'm concerned. He blew it and has tried unsuccessfully to spin blame towards anyone but himself. The problem goes much deeper than anyone else admits. Stick a fork in this team. The current staff has blown it for themselves and even Carl has to acknowledge that.
12-05-2000, 08:48 PM
Has anyone heard Gun once acknowledge, "It's my job to prepare this team and I accept all responsibility for the loss". Bill Parcells said this nearly every time his teams lost because it IS his responsibility. Many other coaches use similar lines following losses. Not Gunther. I dunno why.
12-05-2000, 09:03 PM
Phob, that's a little harsh. He doesn't always point fingers. He knows this team is his responsibilty.
12-05-2000, 09:12 PM
And to be quite honest with you, I'm starting to get a little tired of it's ALL the coaches fault. These guys have been playing football all their lives. It is ultimately up to them to perform on the field. These players aren't braindead...look at Maz, tackle the man with the ball! Besides, they get paid extremely well. And there has to be a matter of pride. Gun can't give the players that. if these players are playing bad out of disrespect for the coaches, then I don't want them on my team. Coaches can't make you not jump offsides, nor can they teach you not to commit a false start. Shields is a pro bowl player who choked at a crucial time. Eliminating screens and sweeps from the seven. I'm not endorsing the coaches, just saying the players are just as as responsible.
12-05-2000, 09:13 PM
The players take their cues from the man in the headset. This team had more than enough talent to post a winning record this year, come on, most of us thought they would go 10-6 looking at them on paper. It is obvious that the team has no confidence in themselves or in the coaching staff, and whose fault is that? This is paycheck football, it takes a special guy to motivate these guys for anything other than getting paid. Gunther just doesn't have that.
12-05-2000, 09:15 PM
These players love football more than you and I ever did or will.
12-05-2000, 09:16 PM
Agreed, but I think that the main problem is that the Chiefs have most of the SAME coaches still associated with the team as they did in '98. I NEVER baught into this staff. It's the WORST in the NFL and something needs to be done about it. I used to be in favor of keeping Gun, but he is clearly part of the problem. There IS talent on this team, the coaches can't extract it.
12-05-2000, 09:25 PM
stevieray, it is naive to assume that all players love the game of football. I can assure you that many, many pro players are only playing for the money. Don't take my word for it, read Tim Green's "The Dark Side of The Game".
12-05-2000, 09:27 PM
In that book, Green talks about how when Atlanta made the playoffs and were ignominously dumped by San Fransisco, several players were (quietly) slapping high-fives because they just made 10G for one game, and now they could hit the golf course.
12-05-2000, 09:36 PM
Brock, I beleieve that to be true. Who would you think on the Chiefs fits that description?
I realize your answer is speculation.
12-06-2000, 06:32 AM
The old saying goes, a team is a reflection of the coach.
With all the boneheaded plays and penalties, what does this team say about the coach?
hoping for a better reflection
12-06-2000, 07:32 AM
Right, stevieray--it's Kimble's fault that he's sidelined the entire game after ripping off 3 good runs.
It's Cloud's fault that he scored a 15 yard TD against Seattle and we've never seen that play again.
It's T. Peterson's fault he kicked a 1-point conversion when we should have gone for 2 against San Diego.
The extremely aggravating part of all this (to Bob Dole, anyway) is that we do have a lot of d@mned good football players, and this coaching staff either does not utilize them or uses them in an incorrect fashion. What happened to the pre-season talk about turning Donnie Edwards loose on defense? Why did it take until game 14 for Maslowski to see significant defensive playing time? Why is it that Bob Dole's chihuahua can watch the game and knows where the ball is going because of the idiotic "player grouping" that's on the field?
12-06-2000, 07:37 AM
I have to agree w/Bob Dole, when's the last time you saw Donnell Bennett on the field and KC passed the football?
12-06-2000, 07:39 AM
Poor example, Titus. The 81 yard TD to DA was play action to Bennett. I do, however, understand where you're coming from.
12-06-2000, 07:45 AM
Nice job again Titus! 2+2 = 4.
Know your **** before chirping.
12-06-2000, 07:58 AM
I didn't post that to hear you squawk, Ken. He does have a point. Except for that one example (which is probably why it went for 6), we don't have any passing plays that include Bennett in the backfield.
12-06-2000, 08:02 AM
I did miss that play Monday night. So sue me Ken. Geez you are an a$$hole.
Maybe that's why the play went 81 yards for a TD. Of course, it was all Bennett on that play right, Ken? EG had nothing to do with that successful play.
12-06-2000, 08:17 AM
So what you guys are saying is that it's Gun's fault Shields jumped offsides? and Hicks too?
Will Shields blew it.And he's a Pro Bowler.
12-06-2000, 08:26 AM
Shields and Hicks mistakes were aberations in their play.
However, can you tell me one good coach that would still have Chester out there making the same mistake several times duing a game, game in and game out? I wasn't, and never will be a fan of Marty, but when he was the HC, until his final season when he lost control, evenhe would not have allowed this stupidity to continue.
disgusted with the stupidity
12-06-2000, 08:34 AM
Players are going to make mistakes. But those mistakes are usually in the heat of battle...Stupid penalties are just that, stupid...and yes it's the players responsibility to be disiplined enough not to commit stupid penalties...but...the coach has at least 10 guys he should be able to rely on to help him...Gun calls time out...okay...so why didn't one of his assistants tell him not too...Gun goes for 1 instead of 2...okay so why didn't one of his assistants tell him to go for 2...is Gun to stubborn or stupid to listen?...or are his assistants to scared or stupid to tell him?
All the talent in the world makes no difference if the coaches don't know how to utillize it...
Lay off Chester, he's just an agressive DL...his only edge is trying to get a jump...plus he has a deminished mental capacity from when he was dropped on his head as a baby....
"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst
[This message has been edited by 58Forever (edited 12-06-2000).]
12-06-2000, 08:45 AM
Is Gun to stupid or to subborn to listen?
Are his assts. to stupidor to scared to tell him.
placing emphasis on the stupid parts
12-06-2000, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> These guys have been playing football all their lives. It is ultimately up to them to perform on the field. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is a vast gulf between performing on the field and playing as a team. For personal experience, one of the stupidest coaching speeches I ever heard [the source shall remain nameless] railed on about how he could teach us to make this play, or that play, and get us in tip-top shape, but he couldn't make us get along. Couldn't make us like each other.
BULL, at some point after basic skills training, that becomes the sine qua non of coaching TEAM sports. That's why there are blocking SCHEMES. That's why they talk about being on the same page. The most displined, most physical, play is useless unless the rest of the unit is on the same page.
12-06-2000, 09:06 AM
Personally, I think all the players are on the same page. That page just happens to be blank.
taking the cheap shot
12-06-2000, 09:57 AM
Again all fingers should be pointed to King Carl for allowing this, and a along line of mediocrity. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/mad.gif
12-06-2000, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Personally, I think all the players are on the same page. That page just happens to be blank. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's the point. For all the talk of a player 'taking over a game,' there is no way any one player can play well enough to overcome not knowing exactly what the rest are doing and exactly why. Chemistry and coaching, chemistry and coaching.
If the symphony doesn't get the sheet music, or even told what piece they're playing, it doesn't much matter how good, proficient, dedicated, etc., the bassoonist, or cellist, is.<BR>
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