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Ari Chi3fs
03-05-2005, 09:01 AM
My comp has been maliciously attacked somehow through some vunerability in Firefox. The hackers are onto the Firefox revolution. It wasnt letting me log into Chiefsplanet... it erased my cookies, and wouldnt let me log into in ANY form, ie Yahoo email, whatever.

Get the update. I can function again.

:cuss: hackers

siberian khatru
03-05-2005, 09:03 AM
It automatically updated me Thursday. (Well, it notified me of the update, I downloaded and installed it. Took about 3 minutes.)

Over-Head
03-05-2005, 09:04 AM
I second that motion
Fug Hackers!
The "idiots" of society, so intelligent their stupid.

Cochise
03-05-2005, 09:05 AM
Thanks for the warning, just upgraded.

So the hacker exploit score is now

Firefox - 1
Internet Explorer - 18382919347854763782991913857

Phobia
03-05-2005, 09:05 AM
Link?

Terribilis
03-05-2005, 09:05 AM
thanks for the heads up

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 09:09 AM
Thanks for the warning, just upgraded.

So the hacker exploit score is now

Firefox - 1
Internet Explorer - 18382919347854763782991913857
Give it a few months, they will catch up with no problem.

Ari Chi3fs
03-05-2005, 09:17 AM
I dont know what got through, but it was something ugly. And Firefox put out a CRITICAL update. I think that is all the info we need to know. heh.

you should click the RED upward arrow button in the upper right corner of your browser to update.

Mr. Laz
03-05-2005, 09:20 AM
Link?

open browser

tools > options > advanced > Check for updates

foxman
03-05-2005, 09:33 AM
you should click the RED upward arrow button in the upper right corner of your browser to update.

THANKS, I didnt know about that shortcut.
:thumb:

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 10:24 AM
Doubt it, considering a patch is issued for firefox WAY earlier than for IE.

chiefs4me
03-05-2005, 10:29 AM
I have heard it isin't worth the trouble it brings....what do you all think?

chiefs4me
03-05-2005, 10:31 AM
THANKS, I didnt know about that shortcut.
:thumb:




Hey did you make your own sig? It is awesome.....:thumb:

dirk digler
03-05-2005, 11:13 AM
Was the critical update to upgrade your Firefox to 1.01? Mine did that as well and updated to 1.01. Here is the reason for it.

Here's what's new in Firefox 1.0.1:

* Improved stability
* International Domain Names are now displayed as punycode. (To show International Domain Names in Unicode, set the "network.IDN_show_punycode" preference to false.)
* Several security fixes.

Security Fixes

MFSA 2005-29 Internationalized Domain Name (IDN) homograph spoofing
MFSA 2005-28 Unsafe /tmp/plugtmp directory exploitable to erase user's files
MFSA 2005-27 Plugins can be used to load privileged content
MFSA 2005-26 Cross-site scripting by dropping javascript: link on tab
MFSA 2005-25 Image drag and drop executable spoofing
MFSA 2005-24 HTTP auth prompt tab spoofing
MFSA 2005-23 Download dialog source spoofing
MFSA 2005-22 Download dialog spoofing using Content-Disposition header
MFSA 2005-21 Overwrite arbitrary files downloading .lnk twice
MFSA 2005-20 XSLT can include stylesheets from arbitrary hosts
MFSA 2005-19 Autocomplete data leak
MFSA 2005-18 Memory overwrite in string library
MFSA 2005-17 Install source spoofing with user:pass@host
MFSA 2005-16 Spoofing download and security dialogs with overlapping windows
MFSA 2005-15 Heap overflow possible in UTF8 to Unicode conversion
MFSA 2005-14 SSL "secure site" indicator spoofing
MFSA 2005-13 Window Injection Spoofing

WebGem
03-05-2005, 11:23 AM
My ASU Webwork (only the assignments that required me to open a new window) would not open. I used my other browser (Avant) for that and it worked. I guess I'll try the update, I hope it works. Thanks!

foxman
03-05-2005, 11:25 AM
Hey did you make your own sig? It is awesome.....:thumb:
Thanks, I love it also but I can't take credit for it. 4th and Long made this one for me.

She is a doll baby isnt she??
:thumb:

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 11:41 AM
Ya'll just want to talk sh!t about the holes in IE and Microsoft in general .... You had to know that this day was coming that the hacking underworld would let you know that NOTHING is safe. :hmmm:

The more people that use this means the more hackers will target it, you know just as well as I do. A good hacker can find holes in ANYTHING... even your precious firecox browser!

At least Bill Gates and his band of cyber thieves have BILLIONS of dollars at thier disposal to keep plugging holes .... it might be vulnerable but they are at least "TRYING" to keep on top of things!

Just IMO

chiefs4me
03-05-2005, 12:45 PM
Thanks, I love it also but I can't take credit for it. 4th and Long made this one for me.

She is a doll baby isnt she??
:thumb:



She is pretty but not my type.....I like men.....ROFL I was impressed on the colors and fox. I should of known it was 4th's handy work, he is great at that sort of thing.















ps....I am not gay..I am a she.:)

foxman
03-05-2005, 01:18 PM
She is pretty but not my type.....I like men.....
ps....I am not gay..I am a she.:)


You had my curiosity...not that theres anything wrong with that.

4th and Long
03-05-2005, 01:20 PM
Y'all stop talkin bout my sig work. Youre embarassing me. :p

chiefs4me
03-05-2005, 01:58 PM
Great job 4th...:thumb:


You need to make me a chiefs sig...

4th and Long
03-05-2005, 02:00 PM
Great job 4th...:thumb:


You need to make me a chiefs sig...
You need to learn how to put a sig up first. ROFL

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 02:11 PM
Thanks for the warning, just upgraded.

So the hacker exploit score is now

Firefox - 1
Internet Explorer - 18382919347854763782991913857

When FireCox browser has been around as long as IE and has 97.99 % of the computers using it on a daily basis you can then TRY and make your BS comparison of how many holes each has. :BS:

Hell it might be a decent browser as I have worked on a few systems that have had it installed. But IE is my choice and MY PERSONAL computers have never had a problem with IE.... then again I take care of my stuff and make sure its updated on a regular basis. :harumph:




:)

alanm
03-05-2005, 02:23 PM
I dont know what got through, but it was something ugly. And Firefox put out a CRITICAL update. I think that is all the info we need to know. heh.

you should click the RED upward arrow button in the upper right corner of your browser to update.I'm using 1.0.1 but I don't have any red upward arrow in my upper right corner. How come? :hmmm: :deevee:

Pants
03-05-2005, 02:28 PM
When FireCox browser has been around as long as IE and has 97.99 % of the computers using it on a daily basis you can then TRY and make your BS comparison of how many holes each has. :BS:

Hell it might be a decent browser as I have worked on a few systems that have had it installed. But IE is my choice and MY PERSONAL computers have never had a problem with IE.... then again I take care of my stuff and make sure its updated on a regular basis. :harumph:
:)

Good for you. Firefox isn't only about safety, it is faster and has a ton of features IE only dreams about.

Count Zarth
03-05-2005, 02:52 PM
so intelligent their stupid.

ROFL

Count Zarth
03-05-2005, 02:53 PM
Good for you. Firefox isn't only about safety, it is faster and has a ton of features IE only dreams about.

Not to mention it doesn't crash like a bitch.

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 02:57 PM
Good for you. Firefox isn't only about safety, it is faster and has a ton of features IE only dreams about.

UHHHH Isn't that what this thread was started about ???? A whole in FireCox???

I think so Jethro.

As far as fast and features... I use a top of the line computer .. it is as fast as I need it to be and I will wait for IE7 to hit the street and I am sure BG won't dissapoint with features!

:)

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 02:58 PM
Not to mention it doesn't crash like a bitch.

I don't have problems with IE crashing it must be a PEBCAK error.

:)

Cliff

tk13
03-05-2005, 03:03 PM
Not to mention it doesn't crash like a bitch.
I actually have a friend that had their firefox browser crash and couldn't get it to come back up with their preferences the other day. Took a couple hours to get it figured out I guess. I've never used it so I don't know much about it but I've seen people have problems with it. It's just like anything else you do related to computers. I don't really have problems with IE crashing though, so I'm not going to complain....

Pants
03-05-2005, 03:07 PM
UHHHH Isn't that what this thread was started about ???? A whole in FireCox???

I think so Jethro.


Dude, don't take it so personally. Yes, this thread is about security but you made a stupid statement and I replied.

Count Zarth
03-05-2005, 03:08 PM
Here's the bottomline, microsuckers:

Firefox gave me a reason to switch from IE.

IE has not given me a reason to switch back.

KCFalcon59
03-05-2005, 04:07 PM
I use both. Lately I have noticed that firefox is getting lots of popups. Never had this problem when I first started using it. I never get popups on IE due to my Symantec Internet Security which blocks them fine. I will continue to use both, but that could change.

I also use firefox at work and notice that it crashes every now and again. Haven't had it crash on my home computer though. For what it is worth.

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 05:34 PM
I use both. Lately I have noticed that firefox is getting lots of popups. Never had this problem when I first started using it. I never get popups on IE due to my Symantec Internet Security which blocks them fine. I will continue to use both, but that could change.

I also use firefox at work and notice that it crashes every now and again. Haven't had it crash on my home computer though. For what it is worth.

What is this MUTINY that come from within the circle?

Traitor

:)

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 05:38 PM
Good for you. Firefox isn't only about safety, it is faster and has a ton of features IE only dreams about.
The tabbed browsing is about the only extra feature. A great deal of what you consider features not able to be used in IE are able, they just simply aren't used.

Tabbed browsing comes out in the next IE and ALL websites I have been to with IE have no problem with features or fully loading the page accurately (unlike Firefox). Plus I am smart enough to turn off my active X and not use it for unknown sites, which is the main problem most of you have with IE to begin with.

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 05:51 PM
OK ... I take back the Traitor comment to KCFalcon59.

Just for sh!ts and giggles I downloaded firecox and installed it.

I will have to admit that it is a faster browser than IE and the tabbed browsing is NICE. I will attempt to install it on my wifes machine as she is ALWAYS having problems with her game site (Pogo) and lets see if this is any better than IE as far as SHE is concerned! If she likes it my life JUST GETS easier from there! :)

Will post my thoughts later after using it for a bit!

Ari Chi3fs
03-05-2005, 05:56 PM
so you been doggin on FIREFOX, but you had never used it? WTF?

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:02 PM
The tabbed browsing is about the only extra feature. A great deal of what you consider features not able to be used in IE are able, they just simply aren't used.

Tabbed browsing comes out in the next IE and ALL websites I have been to with IE have no problem with features or fully loading the page accurately (unlike Firefox). Plus I am smart enough to turn off my active X and not use it for unknown sites, which is the main problem most of you have with IE to begin with.
LOL. Firefox displays sites CORRECTLY. IE interprets sites as M$ wants them to look like. It is the designers who don't know how to code correctly.

Alec R
03-05-2005, 06:02 PM
When FireCox browser has been around as long as IE and has 97.99 % of the computers using it on a daily basis you can then TRY and make your BS comparison of how many holes each has. :BS:

Hell it might be a decent browser as I have worked on a few systems that have had it installed. But IE is my choice and MY PERSONAL computers have never had a problem with IE.... then again I take care of my stuff and make sure its updated on a regular basis. :harumph:




:)

You know, its not that people think Firefox is that muh better than IE. Its not really. Its got some better features, and it loads far far faster than IE, but its the fact that ONCE AGAIN there is COMPETITION in the web browser market.

Firefox users are those that were fed up with the problems IE does have that arent hacker or security related (RAM eater, slow load times, slow cache file loading etc.).

What you hate about Firefox users (I say hate because you sound like you hate them), is exactly what you sound like. A pompous IE snob who thinks MS has billions to fix holes.

Hackers WONT target Firefox, not like they will IE. Not now, not ever. Because Firefox and Mozilla have open source code. There are holes, sure, and hackers have access FULLY to exploit those holes and have had that access since the beginning yet have, until now, chosen not to do so. Why? Because Mozilla isnt trying to corner the market. Mozilla isnt raping people on software prices. Microsoft does.

So, keep sucking off Bill Gates and IE and keep thinking its a better product. If it works for you, great, but since this entire thread is about alerting people to a critical update in Mozilla Firefox, its entirely irrelevant to anyone but you.

morphius
03-05-2005, 06:03 PM
The tabbed browsing is about the only extra feature. A great deal of what you consider features not able to be used in IE are able, they just simply aren't used.

Tabbed browsing comes out in the next IE and ALL websites I have been to with IE have no problem with features or fully loading the page accurately (unlike Firefox). Plus I am smart enough to turn off my active X and not use it for unknown sites, which is the main problem most of you have with IE to begin with.
I prefer Firefox simply because it isn't as tied to the OS as IE is. But I have a few other reasons as well, one, I try to avoid MS anything when possible, I use openoffice at home, use thunderbird at home, use gmail, etc, etc. All with the future goal of switching to Linux at some point. I have very few problems with web sites, a couple here or there, but normally no biggie.

KCFalcon59
03-05-2005, 06:03 PM
OK ... I take back the Traitor comment to KCFalcon59.

Just for sh!ts and giggles I downloaded firecox and installed it.

I will have to admit that it is a faster browser than IE and the tabbed browsing is NICE. I will attempt to install it on my wifes machine as she is ALWAYS having problems with her game site (Pogo) and lets see if this is any better than IE as far as SHE is concerned! If she likes it my life JUST GETS easier from there! :)

Will post my thoughts later after using it for a bit!

Heh. your forgiven man. Like I said. I use both. I like the tabbed browsing alot. To me that's the best feature. :thumb:

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:04 PM
You know, its not that people think Firefox is that muh better than IE. Its not really. Its got some better features, and it loads far far faster than IE, but its the fact that ONCE AGAIN there is COMPETITION in the web browser market.

Firefox users are those that were fed up with the problems IE does have that arent hacker or security related (RAM eater, slow load times, slow cache file loading etc.).

What you hate about Firefox users (I say hate because you sound like you hate them), is exactly what you sound like. A pompous IE snob who thinks MS has billions to fix holes.

Hackers WONT target Firefox, not like they will IE. Not now, not ever. Because Firefox and Mozilla have open source code. There are holes, sure, and hackers have access FULLY to exploit those holes and have had that access since the beginning yet have, until now, chosen not to do so. Why? Because Mozilla isnt trying to corner the market. Mozilla isnt raping people on software prices. Microsoft does.

So, keep sucking off Bill Gates and IE and keep thinking its a better product. If it works for you, great, but since this entire thread is about alerting people to a critical update in Mozilla Firefox, its entirely irrelevant to anyone but you.
GREAT POST!!!!!

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:06 PM
LOL. Firefox displays sites CORRECTLY. IE interprets sites as M$ wants them to look like. It is the designers who don't know how to code correctly.
So what you are saying is that pages loaded to be read in IE but not in firefox are written and loaded incorrectly? Do you also believe that cars that don't run on diesel are not manufactured correctly as diesel fuel makes them cut out and stop running?


It's pretty simple, if the format is not accurate, then the browser doesn't work right - especially if another browser reads it fine. You can blame the coder all you want, but that simply is not accurate.

Sorry, I just have never been hacked or had a huge virus program. I also see a multibillion $$$ corporation that wants to continue to make money - so they will correct issues as they occur. You people downloading other programs just make it easier for me as Microsoft will develop that much faster. In fact 7.0 sounds like it takes not only the tabbed browsing issues into account, but many others as well.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:07 PM
Hackers WONT target Firefox, not like they will IE. Not now, not ever.

They already have according to the author of this post, haven't they?

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:08 PM
I prefer Firefox simply because it isn't as tied to the OS as IE is. But I have a few other reasons as well, one, I try to avoid MS anything when possible, I use openoffice at home, use thunderbird at home, use gmail, etc, etc. All with the future goal of switching to Linux at some point. I have very few problems with web sites, a couple here or there, but normally no biggie.
Jeff, I tried "red hat" (not sure if that is it), but there were so many compatability issues, it wasn't worth my time.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:09 PM
So what you are saying is that pages loaded to be read in IE but not in firefox are written and loaded incorrectly? Do you also believe that cars that don't run on diesel are not manufactured correctly as diesel fuel makes them cut out and stop running?


It's pretty simple, if the format is not accurate, then the browser doesn't work right - especially if another browser reads it fine. You can blame the coder all you want, but that simply is not accurate.

Sorry, I just have never been hacked or had a huge virus program. I also see a multibillion $$$ corporation that wants to continue to make money - so they will correct issues as they occur. You people downloading other programs just make it easier for me as Microsoft will develop that much faster. In fact 7.0 sounds like it takes not only the tabbed browsing issues into account, but many others as well.
Do you design websites or even touched a webdesign community/forum?

Everyone knows that IE screws code up. Its a fact. The problem is, when major companies design websites they have to design them for IE because M$ took the world over with it......

I haven't been hacked with IE either, however it is simply too slow and plus its very "feature few"

So please, point me to an article somewhere or a forum that believes that it isn't the coder when it comes to sites displaying well in Firefox and they do in IE.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:10 PM
They already have according to the author of this post, haven't they?
That was a dumb comment, because you know what he was saying. Plus he restated himself in the same post.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:10 PM
Do you design websites or even touched a webdesign community/forum?

Everyone knows that IE screws code up. Its a fact. The problem is, when major companies design websites they have to design them for IE because M$ took the world over with it......

I haven't been hacked with IE either, however it is simply too slow and plus its very "feature few"

So please, point me to an article somewhere or a forum that believes that it isn't the coder when it comes to sites displaying well in Firefox and they do in IE.
Actually, yeah, I develop the annual gambling website here every year.
Never had an issue, sorry to burst bubbles.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:11 PM
That was a dumb comment, because you know what he was saying. Plus he restated himself in the same post.
Do you own firefox stock, or are you just normally this defensive?

morphius
03-05-2005, 06:12 PM
Jeff, I tried "red hat" (not sure if that is it), but there were so many compatability issues, it wasn't worth my time.
When did you try it? The issues are getting less and less all the time, which is why I haven't made the jump yet. I have always had a few video issues or the like with Linux, but with each version it has become a little easier to install and better to use. I don't think it is for everyone yet, by any means, I just hope it gets to that point thought.

KCFalcon59
03-05-2005, 06:13 PM
Hackers WONT target Firefox, not like they will IE. Not now, not ever. Because Firefox and Mozilla have open source code. There are holes, sure, and hackers have access FULLY to exploit those holes and have had that access since the beginning yet have, until now, chosen not to do so. Why? Because Mozilla isnt trying to corner the market. Mozilla isnt raping people on software prices. Microsoft does.

:BS: They will and most likely are trying. Isn't the latest update of firefox a fix for security issues? I am sure I will see firefox out with more and more fixes.

Someone sounds like a Mozilla snob.

I use both. I like both. Each works well. I don't get popups with IE though I do with firefox and it is supposed to have a blocker. I like the tabbed browsing with firefox and wish IE had the same.

pros and cons man, pros and cons.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:14 PM
When did you try it? The issues are getting less and less all the time, which is why I haven't made the jump yet. I have always had a few video issues or the like with Linux, but with each version it has become a little easier to install and better to use. I don't think it is for everyone yet, by any means, I just hope it gets to that point thought.
Oh, it was years ago.

I got the program for free and I was curious. I am not adverse to trying new products, as far as a different OS goes, I am willing to see what is offered.

However, with browsers, Opera was the only one I ever used that I thought was vastly superior to IE, but constant updates got to be too bit a pain in the ass.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:15 PM
:BS: They will and most likely are trying. Isn't the latest update of firefox a fix for security issues? I am sure I will see firefox out with more and more fixes.

Someone sounds like a Mozilla snob.

I use both. I like both. Each works well. I don't get popups with IE though I do with firefox and it is supposed to have a blocker. I like the tabbed browsing with firefox and wish IE had the same.

pros and cons man, pros and cons.
That's it in a nutshell. When IE comes out with 7.0, it will match Mozilla for the only other issue that matters to me, the tabbed browsing.

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 06:15 PM
so you been doggin on FIREFOX, but you had never used it? WTF?

I used it on a computer I was repairing and it didn't impress me... so yes I have used it ... but not on a top notch, top of the line machine like I have here at home.

I will bow down and take a little heat for this but I have used it before.

:)

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:16 PM
Trust me there are vast differences....especially in CSS, XHTML etc etc...

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/02/15/373104.aspx

People there were complaining.

No im normally not defensive.

Pants
03-05-2005, 06:18 PM
KCW, why do you prefer IE over Firefox?

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:19 PM
Trust me there are vast differences....especially in CSS, XHTML etc etc...

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/02/15/373104.aspx

People there were complaining.

No im normally not defensive.
I am sure they were, there are always reasons to bitch about products. If those bitches don't affect me, then why should I be concerned other than the fact that if a company listens (which obviously Microsoft is) then it simply means improvements for me with no effort whatsoever?

dirk digler
03-05-2005, 06:19 PM
So what you are saying is that pages loaded to be read in IE but not in firefox are written and loaded incorrectly? Do you also believe that cars that don't run on diesel are not manufactured correctly as diesel fuel makes them cut out and stop running?

It's pretty simple, if the format is not accurate, then the browser doesn't work right - especially if another browser reads it fine. You can blame the coder all you want, but that simply is not accurate.



Russ that is a totally inaccurate statement. Have you ever designed a website? I designed one for the company that I work for and I can tell you that Firefox, Mozilla, IE, Opera, or Netscape will render the web page correctly if it is coded to HTML Standards. They problem with some pages not displaying correctly is that they aren't coded to standard and were probably made with Frontpage. If you have ever looked at the code of a web page that was made with Frontpage there is so much extra code in it.

Here is good site to read about it and I have posted some of it.

http://www.computergripes.com/firefoxsites.html

By design, Firefox does not display web pages exactly the way Internet Explorer does. On the one hand, there are W3C standards and on the other hand, the way IE works. They are different. Firefox and Mozilla and Opera have opted to obey the W3C standards so page rendering differences between all these browsers and IE are to be expected.

While Firefox and Mozilla are to be applauded for conforming to the "standards", the unfortunate net result for the user is that pages display differently, sometimes quite differently, in alternate browsers. Then too, the popularity of Internet Explorer and the laziness of web site designers results in many web sites that are only tested against IE.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:19 PM
That's it in a nutshell. When IE comes out with 7.0, it will match Mozilla for the only other issue that matters to me, the tabbed browsing.
I think you'd like Live bookmarks though :)

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:20 PM
Russ that is a totally inaccurate statement. Have you ever designed a website? I designed one for the company that I work for and I can tell you that Firefox, Mozilla, IE, Opera, or Netscape will render the web page correctly if it is coded to HTML Standards. They problem with some pages not displaying correctly is that they aren't coded to standard and were probably made with Frontpage. If you have ever looked at the code of a web page that was made with Frontpage there is so much extra code in it.

Here is good site to read about it and I have posted some of it.

http://www.computergripes.com/firefoxsites.html

By design, Firefox does not display web pages exactly the way Internet Explorer does. On the one hand, there are W3C standards and on the other hand, the way IE works. They are different. Firefox and Mozilla and Opera have opted to obey the W3C standards so page rendering differences between all these browsers and IE are to be expected.

While Firefox and Mozilla are to be applauded for conforming to the "standards", the unfortunate net result for the user is that pages display differently, sometimes quite differently, in alternate browsers. Then too, the popularity of Internet Explorer and the laziness of web site designers results in many web sites that are only tested against IE.
Thank you!

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:21 PM
KCW, why do you prefer IE over Firefox?
I just saw no difference in speed. The tabbed browsing is nice, but honestly not worth the effort over pages that end up looking screwed up in Mozilla.

Again, the only product I have ever preferred over IE vastly was Opera (I had tabbed browsing a couple of years before most of you here have been creaming over it), but they were putting out update after update constantly. It seemed as though every time I logged on, I needed another update - it wasn't worth the upkeep.

morphius
03-05-2005, 06:21 PM
Actually, yeah, I develop the annual gambling website here every year.
Never had an issue, sorry to burst bubbles.
IE used to be the most difficult of the browsers to program for. The issue the others are talking about have to do with each program following what is the accpeted standard by the group that oversees such things, Firefox is designed to meet those, and IE is known to skirt some of those because they figure their way is better.

Also, IE wasn't anywhere near as good as Firefox was at Firefox's current age.

Pants
03-05-2005, 06:22 PM
Downloading files with Firefox is amazing compared to IE. Overall firefix is much more user friendly, less confusing and better-looking.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:23 PM
Russ that is a totally inaccurate statement. Have you ever designed a website? I designed one for the company that I work for and I can tell you that Firefox, Mozilla, IE, Opera, or Netscape will render the web page correctly if it is coded to HTML Standards. They problem with some pages not displaying correctly is that they aren't coded to standard and were probably made with Frontpage. If you have ever looked at the code of a web page that was made with Frontpage there is so much extra code in it.

Here is good site to read about it and I have posted some of it.

http://www.computergripes.com/firefoxsites.html

By design, Firefox does not display web pages exactly the way Internet Explorer does. On the one hand, there are W3C standards and on the other hand, the way IE works. They are different. Firefox and Mozilla and Opera have opted to obey the W3C standards so page rendering differences between all these browsers and IE are to be expected.

While Firefox and Mozilla are to be applauded for conforming to the "standards", the unfortunate net result for the user is that pages display differently, sometimes quite differently, in alternate browsers. Then too, the popularity of Internet Explorer and the laziness of web site designers results in many web sites that are only tested against IE.
Again, yes, I make the annual gambling webpage on this very bulletin board. Never an issue.

And again, frankly, I don't care why something works or doesn't work that I don't have control over - I just am not that geekified. All I care about is that Mozilla does not display the pages correctly and IE does. Your argument of 'IE works because it is wrong' just simply doesn't matter - IE works and Mozilla doesn't.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:23 PM
IE used to be the most difficult of the browsers to program for. The issue the others are talking about have to do with each program following what is the accpeted standard by the group that oversees such things, Firefox is designed to meet those, and IE is known to skirt some of those because they figure their way is better.

Also, IE wasn't anywhere near as good as Firefox was at Firefox's current age.
That last part is the true-most statement here.

morphius
03-05-2005, 06:23 PM
I just saw no difference in speed. The tabbed browsing is nice, but honestly not worth the effort over pages that end up looking screwed up in Mozilla.

Again, the only product I have ever preferred over IE vastly was Opera (I had tabbed browsing a couple of years before most of you here have been creaming over it), but they were putting out update after update constantly. It seemed as though every time I logged on, I needed another update - it wasn't worth the upkeep.
Just for giggles, have you been keeping up with your security patches for IE, hehe :D

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 06:24 PM
You know, its not that people think Firefox is that muh better than IE. Its not really. Its got some better features, and it loads far far faster than IE, but its the fact that ONCE AGAIN there is COMPETITION in the web browser market.

Firefox users are those that were fed up with the problems IE does have that arent hacker or security related (RAM eater, slow load times, slow cache file loading etc.).

What you hate about Firefox users (I say hate because you sound like you hate them), is exactly what you sound like. A pompous IE snob who thinks MS has billions to fix holes.

Hackers WONT target Firefox, not like they will IE. Not now, not ever. Because Firefox and Mozilla have open source code. There are holes, sure, and hackers have access FULLY to exploit those holes and have had that access since the beginning yet have, until now, chosen not to do so. Why? Because Mozilla isnt trying to corner the market. Mozilla isnt raping people on software prices. Microsoft does.

So, keep sucking off Bill Gates and IE and keep thinking its a better product. If it works for you, great, but since this entire thread is about alerting people to a critical update in Mozilla Firefox, its entirely irrelevant to anyone but you.


I will take some of that heat ...

But......... I do think microsoft is a better product than most ... IF Linux and your open source was so flipping great then why have so many BIG business and Corporations pulled the plug on the switch to LINUX over Windows????

I'll tell you why ...... TCO

It take 10 times as many people to administer Linux than it does Windows in an office enviroment.

If open source is so flipping great than why doesn't "IT" have OVER 97% of the PC market????

I will give you a little on your bashing of me... but that is what my training is.......... Microsoft Network Administration.

Pants
03-05-2005, 06:24 PM
I just saw no difference in speed. The tabbed browsing is nice, but honestly not worth the effort over pages that end up looking screwed up in Mozilla.

Again, the only product I have ever preferred over IE vastly was Opera (I had tabbed browsing a couple of years before most of you here have been creaming over it), but they were putting out update after update constantly. It seemed as though every time I logged on, I needed another update - it wasn't worth the upkeep.

I've known about opera for a few years, my dad used to have it on our old comp, I always gave him shit for using it too.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:24 PM
Again, yes, I make the annual gambling webpage on this very bulletin board. Never an issue.

And again, frankly, I don't care why something works or doesn't work that I don't have control over - I just am not that geekified. All I care about is that Mozilla does not display the pages correctly and IE does. Your argument of 'IE works because it is wrong' just simply doesn't matter - IE works and Mozilla doesn't.
Except for that growing, and ever increasing, 7% of us that have realized the problem.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:25 PM
IE used to be the most difficult of the browsers to program for. The issue the others are talking about have to do with each program following what is the accpeted standard by the group that oversees such things, Firefox is designed to meet those, and IE is known to skirt some of those because they figure their way is better.

Also, IE wasn't anywhere near as good as Firefox was at Firefox's current age.
The Model A wasn't nearly as good as the Mustang when both achieved 5 years of age. Mustang had the benefit of decades of car design prior to their first 64 1/2/

Mozilla has programmers who have worked and developed IE and seen its flaws. I am sure it is a great product, but unless you appeal to masses like myself that really don't give a damn which is programmed correctly, it really doesn't matter.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:25 PM
Just for giggles, have you been keeping up with your security patches for IE, hehe :D
Done automatically. Opera never offered.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:26 PM
The Model A wasn't nearly as good as the Mustang when both achieved 5 years of age. Mustang had the benefit of decades of car design prior to their first 64 1/2/

Mozilla has programmers who have worked and developed IE and seen its flaws. I am sure it is a great product, but unless you appeal to masses like myself that really don't give a damn which is programmed correctly, it really doesn't matter.
Thats why coders need to strive for both. Plus they should atleast adhere to the W3C standards, as they oversee HTML.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:26 PM
Downloading files with Firefox is amazing compared to IE. Overall firefix is much more user friendly, less confusing and better-looking.

I think the last portion of your statement is what most of the hullaballo is about. Just doesn't look that different than other off-brands I have tried.

Pants
03-05-2005, 06:27 PM
I've never been to a website that doesn't work with Firefox. I'm sure there are some, but that's like saying I'll never fly because some planes crash and driving instead.

morphius
03-05-2005, 06:27 PM
FWIW, I don't care what browser a person uses, the more there are, the more competition, the better the end product.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:27 PM
Except for that growing, and ever increasing, 7% of us that have realized the problem.
Cool, that insures MS will keep up with the crowd. Thanks alot.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:28 PM
I've never been to a website that doesn't work with Firefox. I'm sure there are some, but that's like saying I'll never fly because some planes crash and driving instead.
I would hardly compare Mozilla to IE as Planes to Automobiles - unless you are getting some sort of paid endorsement, you are full of crap.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:29 PM
Cool, that insures MS will keep up with the crowd. Thanks alot.
Im not sure what that was supposed to mean.

Morphius.....that is probably the best statment thus far now.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:29 PM
FWIW, I don't care what browser a person uses, the more there are, the more competition, the better the end product.
That's the way I see it.

I honestly don't see one as being vastly superior to any other. As long as I can read a page, that is 95% of what I care about.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:30 PM
Im not sure what that was supposed to mean.

Morphius.....that is probably the best statment thus far now.
That is probably the 4th time you have said that is the best statement. Eventually you have to admit the discussion has reached a pinnacle.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:31 PM
Thats why coders need to strive for both. Plus they should atleast adhere to the W3C standards, as they oversee HTML.
They don't. They strive for the MS crowd, therefore, I am catered to. That is what matters to the consumers.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:31 PM
I think thats the second time...and I said NOW meaning it took the others place.

Hence, there isn't anything wrong with that statement.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:33 PM
They don't. They strive for the MS crowd, therefore, I am catered to. That is what matters to the consumers.
Thats why firefox has an uphill battle. Taking on 97% of the market isn't a small task. You gotta give Mozilla credit there. I'm waiting until one computer manufacterer bundles firefox on their machines standard.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:33 PM
I think thats the second time...and I said NOW meaning it took the others place.

Hence, there isn't anything wrong with that statement.
Sorry, with all the stroking you are doing whenever someone gives their positive opinion on the browser, I was exaggerating.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:34 PM
Thats why firefox has an uphill battle. Taking on 97% of the market isn't a small task. You gotta give Mozilla credit there. I'm waiting until one computer manufacterer bundles firefox on their machines standard.
When it is done, and the majority is catered to, and coders care about it en masse, and it stays free - then I will consider switching over, as will most of America.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:35 PM
Sorry, with all the stroking you are doing whenever someone gives their positive opinion on the browser, I was exaggerating.
Not sure about the first half, but i don't understand the first half. IE is good because it is part of the OS, without it Windows wouldn't exist.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:35 PM
I think you'd like Live bookmarks though :)
Again, see Opera - as the 80s phrase goes, been there - done that

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:38 PM
IE is good because it is part of the OS, without it Windows wouldn't exist.
Again, I really don't care. Nor does the average consumer. You are amped over a geek product and have a billion reasons why it affects geeks and is good for geeks, but the average consumer just isn't affected.

It boils down to this:

Which is most compatible?
Which is easiest to use?
Which offers the least amount of training to learn?

The answer to all of the above (currently) is IE. That is all that matters.

tk13
03-05-2005, 06:39 PM
Personally, and I know I'm going to get uber-geeko-flamed for this, I don't see what the big deal about tabbed browsing is. I have never used tabbed browsing, but I don't see what makes it so special compared to just having a couple windows open across the bottom of the screen. Well I'm guessing that it obviously takes up less memory, but other than that, what's the advantage to it really?

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:40 PM
If by compatible you mean displaying pages, then yes, sadly.
Id debate the second two questions because that depends on the user. If you consider the "mass" newbies, well since IE is bundled they would get used to that easily. If you consider most of the "mass" moderate users, those two are really just picking between green and red apples.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:40 PM
Personally, and I know I'm going to get uber-geeko-flamed for this, I don't see what the big deal about tabbed browsing is. I have never used tabbed browsing, but I don't see what makes it so special compared to just having a couple windows open across the bottom of the screen. Well I'm guessing that it obviously takes up less memory, but other than that, what's the advantage to it really?
The only thing I can think of is that you can open about 6 or 7 pornsites without them stacking in your taskbar.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:41 PM
Personally, and I know I'm going to get uber-geeko-flamed for this, I don't see what the big deal about tabbed browsing is. I have never used tabbed browsing, but I don't see what makes it so special compared to just having a couple windows open across the bottom of the screen. Well I'm guessing that it obviously takes up less memory, but other than that, what's the advantage to it really?
Not really sure. Although I don't have to flip through a group of 10 websites on my taskbar.

morphius
03-05-2005, 06:41 PM
Again, I really don't care. Nor does the average consumer. You are amped over a geek product and have a billion reasons why it affects geeks and is good for geeks, but the average consumer just isn't affected.

It boils down to this:

Which is most compatible?
Which is easiest to use?
Which offers the least amount of training to learn?

The answer to all of the above (currently) is IE. That is all that matters.
I don't know that I would call it a geek product anymore, especially when comp security experts said to switch away from IE and recommeneded Firefox. Heck, my 12 year old sister switched browsers on her own, I didn't even try to prod her.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:42 PM
If by compatible you mean displaying pages, then yes, sadly.
Id debate the second two questions because that depends on the user. If you consider the "mass" newbies, well since IE is bundled they would get used to that easily. If you consider most of the "mass" moderate users, those two are really just picking between green and red apples.
Sorry, the mass of users with PCs are anything but "moderate" and simply don't want to learn more than is already on their PCs. If they did, then places like "Geek Squad" simply wouldn't exist as the casual users needing help would be drastically reduced.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:42 PM
I don't know that I would call it a geek product anymore, especially when comp security experts said to switch away from IE and recommeneded Firefox. Heck, my 12 year old sister switched browsers on her own, I didn't even try to prod her.
That too. I mean the government said not to use IE, will most people listen? no.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:42 PM
Not really sure. Although I don't have to flip through a group of 10 websites on my taskbar.
TK - Told ya.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:43 PM
That too. I mean the government said not to use IE, will most people listen? no.
The government also says they need 12% of my paycheck every week to spend on other people. Excuse me if I don't consider them an authority.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:43 PM
Sorry, the mass of users with PCs are anything but "moderate" and simply don't want to learn more than is already on their PCs. If they did, then places like "Geek Squad" simply wouldn't exist as the casual users needing help would be drastically reduced.
"Geek Squad" usually do computer maitnence things not installing and training on different browsers.. Bad comparison.

And moderate i meant on the subject of the internet.

tk13
03-05-2005, 06:43 PM
I see. I don't know either. All I ever seem to hear is "FIREFOX OMG!!!! L33t!!!!! TAbBEd bROoOoWSinG!!!"

morphius
03-05-2005, 06:43 PM
Personally, and I know I'm going to get uber-geeko-flamed for this, I don't see what the big deal about tabbed browsing is. I have never used tabbed browsing, but I don't see what makes it so special compared to just having a couple windows open across the bottom of the screen. Well I'm guessing that it obviously takes up less memory, but other than that, what's the advantage to it really?
I like tabbed browsing for doing google searches, can open up a bunch of tabs that are all subject related without having a new window pop up in my way after each click. Not the greatest thing since slice bread, just a nice thing to have sometimes.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:43 PM
The government also says they need 12% of my paycheck every week to spend on other people. Excuse me if I don't consider them an authority.
I agree with you and you slam me again.

LOL

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:44 PM
Not really sure. Although I don't have to flip through a group of 10 websites on my taskbar.
What are you doing that you require 10 websites open at the same time?

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:44 PM
I see. I don't know either. All I ever seem to hear is "FIREFOX OMG!!!! L33t!!!!! TAbBEd bROoOoWSinG!!!"
I don't think its the best feature, but it is nice.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:45 PM
What are you doing that you require 10 websites open at the same time?
What were you doing when you need 6-7 like you said previously?

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:47 PM
What were you doing when you need 6-7 like you said previously?
I didn't say I opened 6 or 7. What are you reading?

tk13
03-05-2005, 06:49 PM
I don't think its the best feature, but it is nice.
Well what is the best feature?

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:50 PM
The only thing I can think of is that you can open about 6 or 7 pornsites without them stacking in your taskbar.


Thats the comment.

So if you wanna be that technical, you didn't say YOU opened them, but I didn't say I opened them either....

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:51 PM
Well what is the best feature?
I knew you'd ask. I don't know, these would be up there:

Their bookmarking system, download system (with an extension), correct coding display.

Actually, the best is probably the ability for usermade extensions. That is one thing M$ will never have.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 06:54 PM
Thats the comment.

So if you wanna be that technical, you didn't say YOU opened them, but I didn't say I opened them either....
Yes, you did.

Not really sure. Although I don't have to flip through a group of 10 websites on my taskbar.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 06:55 PM
Yes, you did.
Okay, you win there. However, i am EXAGGERATING, much like you did earlier.

morphius
03-05-2005, 07:00 PM
I also think that if an IT department was to hide the icons for IE and put Mozilla as the default browser, 95% of the people wouldn't care either.

If either product was perfect, then there wouldn't need to be more then one.

irishjayhawk
03-05-2005, 07:01 PM
Interesting idea. Or perhaps make the E icon make firefox appear. People wouldn't see that big a difference in ease of use, or compatablity.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 07:02 PM
Okay, you win there. However, i am EXAGGERATING, much like you did earlier.
Cool enough.

Fact is that Mozilla has some interesting stuff for the geeks and some nice little fluff for the average user, but nothing so fantastic that it is ground breaking. For those that use the internet and want to get some little extra things out of it and don't mind the messed up pages it seems to be good, not just for that user but for anyone else as it makes corps like MS stand up and make some changes.

However, it is not so earthshattering that those of us who choose not to use it will have any detrimental horrid effects on the internet.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 07:03 PM
I also think that if an IT department was to hide the icons for IE and put Mozilla as the default browser, 95% of the people wouldn't care either.

If either product was perfect, then there wouldn't need to be more then one.
I agree with both statements. When one is vastly superior and has minimal training, then I will choose that particular item.

morphius
03-05-2005, 07:04 PM
Cool enough.

Fact is that Mozilla has some interesting stuff for the geeks and some nice little fluff for the average user, but nothing so fantastic that it is ground breaking. For those that use the internet and want to get some little extra things out of it and don't mind the messed up pages it seems to be good, not just for that user but for anyone else as it makes corps like MS stand up and make some changes.

However, it is not so earthshattering that those of us who choose not to use it will have any detrimental horrid effects on the internet.
When was the last time you used it? Really, the only pages I have any issues for are ones that check for IE when they load, other then those, no issues at all. Which I'm sure people running MAC's browser would run into the same issue there.

KCWolfman
03-05-2005, 07:08 PM
When was the last time you used it? Really, the only pages I have any issues for are ones that check for IE when they load, other then those, no issues at all. Which I'm sure people running MAC's browser would run into the same issue there.
About 6 months ago when all the hullaballo was raised. I saw nothing different than Opera offered me before, so I just continue using IE.

morphius
03-05-2005, 07:11 PM
About 6 months ago when all the hullaballo was raised. I saw nothing different than Opera offered me before, so I just continue using IE.
I don't think there are going to be any more real innoviations in browsers. They just are not that exciting. I do like that firefox will work on more then just one OS though, something IE used to do.

Michael Michigan
03-05-2005, 07:28 PM
I have Opera, Firefox and IE on this machine.

Opera is the fastest, but I still use Firefox most of the time.

I only use IE when I have to.

Count Zarth
03-05-2005, 07:33 PM
Personally, and I know I'm going to get uber-geeko-flamed for this, I don't see what the big deal about tabbed browsing is. I have never used tabbed browsing, but I don't see what makes it so special compared to just having a couple windows open across the bottom of the screen. Well I'm guessing that it obviously takes up less memory, but other than that, what's the advantage to it really?

It's great for message boards. When I go on Chiefsplanet or other boards I open a bunch of new threads in tabs and then go about checking them.

Count Zarth
03-05-2005, 07:34 PM
and don't mind the messed up pages

I haven't encountered a "messed up page" in months.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
03-05-2005, 07:38 PM
I have Opera, Firefox and IE on this machine.

Opera is the fastest, but I still use Firefox most of the time.

I only use IE when I have to.


On my desktop, I have Opera, IE, Netscape, Firefox, Lynx (for seeing-impared viewers) for when I do web development. It's amazing how "scripts" don't exactly work the same across the spectrum. I do my damnedest not to be browser specific. That kind of stuff just torques me off.

Kerberos
03-05-2005, 09:17 PM
Hey guys any of you try this program for active X control???

spywareblaster

It is recomended by spybot in thier immunization section and it actually has protection for FireFox in thier active X controls.

I will try and post the actual program if it doesn't work you can get it at

http://www.download.com

alanm
03-05-2005, 09:48 PM
The only problem I've experienced with Firefox so far is due to downloading stuff. If for example, I were to download some sort of software I don't have the choice of just opening. Buy that I mean it always insists that I download to a particular folder. It always has the open option greyed out so I have no choice but to download to a folder on my HD. :(

dirk digler
03-05-2005, 09:59 PM
Again, yes, I make the annual gambling webpage on this very bulletin board. Never an issue.

And again, frankly, I don't care why something works or doesn't work that I don't have control over - I just am not that geekified. All I care about is that Mozilla does not display the pages correctly and IE does. Your argument of 'IE works because it is wrong' just simply doesn't matter - IE works and Mozilla doesn't.

It usually isn't an issue but some websites do not render correctly but I have run in those few and far between. Alot of major websites now make sure they are up to standard which is good for everybody.

As for reading the rest of the thread I like Firefox because of tabbed browsing and no spyware issues. I tried Opera I hated it and I didn't like the fact you had to pay for it unless you could live with the ads in it.

dirk digler
03-05-2005, 10:07 PM
I also think that if an IT department was to hide the icons for IE and put Mozilla as the default browser, 95% of the people wouldn't care either.

If either product was perfect, then there wouldn't need to be more then one.

I work in the IT department for my company and I have suggested this but we have 1 major problem. We use an in-house program that is web based and it can only run on IE. Firefox, Opera, Netscape, none of them will even display the page only IE can which royally sucks. We didn't write the program but the company we get the program from isn't going to change it so were stuck unfortuntely.