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DaWolf
03-09-2005, 12:36 AM
KC fills hole at linebacker

Linebacker Kendrell Bell, defensive rookie of the year in 2001 while with Pittsburgh, signs a seven-year deal.

BY ADAM TEICHER AND JASON WHITLOCK

Kansas City Star


After the Chiefs' early efforts in free-agency failed, it was inevitable that the first defender to agree to contract terms would be viewed as a savior.

So, apparently, it will be with former Pittsburgh linebacker Kendrell Bell. He accepted a seven-year contract on Tuesday that sources said would pay him about $35 million. It includes an initial $3.5 million signing bonus and guaranteed money of about $10 million.

One of the first questions Bell was asked at a teleconference with Kansas City media was exactly how he planned to improve the Chiefs woeful defense.

"I'm not saying I'm coming in here to be a savior," Bell said. "I'm coming here to be a part of something special. I feel like the Chiefs are a couple of players away from being where they want to be.

"That's just how it is. You want to fit guys in, bring guys in and get to that championship. That's why they brought me in here, to try to get to the championship. Hopefully that will work out."

Bell will offer immediate help merely by being able to line up when training camp begins. The Chiefs have only four other serious roster candidates under contract at linebacker and all have issues.

Mike Maslowski missed the last season and a half with a knee ailment, Shawn Barber missed the second half of last season with a knee injury and probably won't be ready for the start of training camp. Kawika Mitchell and Keyaron Fox have developed more slowly than the Chiefs had hoped.

Starter Scott Fujita is a restricted free agent.

The Chiefs were not definitive about their plans for Bell, but he will likely wind up as their starting middle linebacker. Mitchell, who played a lot in the middle in Maslowski's absence, may be moved to the outside.

" (Bell) could play more than one position," president and general manager Carl Peterson said. "We all know we need some help at more than one position. He's a very fast and physical football player that we liked coming out of college."

The 257-pound Bell is plenty big enough to withstand the pounding a middle linebacker inevitably faces. He was an inside linebacker in Pittsburgh's 3-4 defense.

"I've been playing the (middle) linebacker position for a while, so that's something I'm familiar with," he said. "But I don't think I'll have too much problem adjusting to the outside, if that's where the coach wants me to be."

Bell, too, is coming off an injury. He had a sports hernia that kept him out of all but three games last season. He had surgery in October.

Bell indicated he would be ready to play if the Chiefs had a game today.

"He's healthy enough that I feel good about it," Peterson said. "We took some time to do an extensive physical on him."

Peterson said the Chiefs would drop their pursuit of Baltimore's Ed Hartwell, who, like Bell, had visited Arrowhead Stadium last week, and all other free-agent linebackers.

The Chiefs are turning their attention to defensive back. They expected Washington cornerback Fred Smoot to arrive for a visit today, but Smoot signed Tuesday with the Vikings.

The Chiefs are to welcome Miami safety Sammy Knight tonight. They may also entertain two other cornerbacks, New England's Ty Law and Denver's Kelly Herndon, a restricted free agent, this week.

When healthy, the 26-year-old Bell is a fast, aggressive linebacker with pass rush skills. He was a Pro Bowler and defensive rookie of the year in 2001, when he had nine sacks -- two on the Chiefs' Trent Green in a game at Arrowhead.

He hasn't achieved those numbers since. The Steelers moved on without him last year, winning 15 games and the AFC North championship.

The Chiefs saw him for what he was earlier in his career.

"He was one of those players you had to account for on every snap offensively when we faced him in Tennessee twice a year," said Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham, who was with the Titans early in Bell's career.

"When you turn on the film, his ability to cover ground and blow up plays is apparent. He is an experienced and explosive player who could work at any of our three linebacker positions.

"No matter where you line him up, he's a threat to blitz and create havoc, which is exactly what we're looking for in our defensive players."

Bell's godfather is former Chiefs cornerback Jim Marsalis, who told Bell he could be comfortable playing in Kansas City.

That has a greater chance of being true if the Chiefs sign at least one more defensive free agent to provide Bell some help.

"I'm just going to bring my game," Bell said. "I'm not going to try to change anything with the type of player I am. I'm a very aggressive player, and whatever is missing (on the Chiefs' defense), hopefully I'll bring it with me. But I know that I'm just coming out there to play my game."

http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/sports/11087313.htm

Count Zarth
03-09-2005, 12:39 AM
Guh? I would love to know what the Chiefs are going to do at outside linebacker. Hopefully we can get someone in the draft.

DenverChief
03-09-2005, 12:41 AM
:banghead: So its gonna go down like this...Bell will play the position that doesn't pan out...so whomever can't beat him out at LOLB or ROLB or MLB loses thier job...thats wonderful....I can see it already...Fujita.....Bell.....Beisel:banghead:

mcan
03-09-2005, 12:43 AM
thx for the article... I like hearing Gun talk him up. And I love the small signing bonus. Yeah, he'll get cash out of us, but right now, we should still have plenty of actual money to throw at signing bonuses for others. But, I have to say two things shake me up a little:

1. Leave Bell in the middle! He'll be better able to reach the whole field from the middle, and that's where we need him the most.

2. Don't give up on Hartwell. We have 0 talent at linebacker right now, and Hartwell could be just what the doctor ordered.



Now lets get Surtain or Law / and Hartwell. We'll be dong alright then...

Phobia
03-09-2005, 12:48 AM
I call bullshit. Hartwell is still in the cards. Carl is being a tough SOB negotiator.

DenverChief
03-09-2005, 12:51 AM
thx for the article... I like hearing Gun talk him up. And I love the small signing bonus. Yeah, he'll get cash out of us, but right now, we should still have plenty of actual money to throw at signing bonuses for others. But, I have to say two things shake me up a little:

1. Leave Bell in the middle! He'll be better able to reach the whole field from the middle, and that's where we need him the most.

2. Don't give up on Hartwell. We have 0 talent at linebacker right now, and Hartwell could be just what the doctor ordered.



Now lets get Surtain or Law / and Hartwell. We'll be dong alright then...

Hartwell is done...they are playing like we have the second coming of Jack Ham on our D already

Count Zarth
03-09-2005, 12:52 AM
I call bullshit. Hartwell is still in the cards. Carl is being a tough SOB negotiator.

I hope you are right. We simply can't start the season with either Mitchell OR Beisel on the field. :shake:

DaWolf
03-09-2005, 12:56 AM
thx for the article... I like hearing Gun talk him up. And I love the small signing bonus. Yeah, he'll get cash out of us, but right now, we should still have plenty of actual money to throw at signing bonuses for others. But, I have to say two things shake me up a little:

1. Leave Bell in the middle! He'll be better able to reach the whole field from the middle, and that's where we need him the most.

2. Don't give up on Hartwell. We have 0 talent at linebacker right now, and Hartwell could be just what the doctor ordered.

Now lets get Surtain or Law / and Hartwell. We'll be dong alright then...

There's just no way to get Hartwell, Bell and either Surtain or Law. Each of those guys wants eight figure gaurunteed money. Hartwell is certainly not signing for less than Bell. If we got him, no chance at either Law or Surtain.

At this point I envision the Chiefs making the effort to try to find an upgrade at safety and trying to go after Law if his physical exam checks out. If that doesn't work out it basically leaves them with Surtain. They may use Law to try and bring Surtain's price down too. We'll have to wait and see. Either way, the options are dwindling. If the Seahawks trade for Surtain tomorrow for example, we are left with Law as the only premier corner available. Carl has got to be careful here, his margin for screwing this up is nil. No corner upgrade with a premier cover guy means this free agency was a faliure. But they still have a chance to do something special.

As far as moving Bell around, that's just the style of player Gunther looks for. He's a bit like Saunders on offense, always wanting to shift his defensive players around to cause confusion for the opposition and bringing one guy on a blitz one play and another guy on a blitz another play. The good news with Bell is that he has proven that he can get to the QB...

DaWolf
03-09-2005, 12:58 AM
Shawn Barber missed the second half of last season with a knee injury and probably won't be ready for the start of training camp.
Does this mean that Barber is ahead of schedule and may be ready for the start of the season? Because "wont be ready for the start of camp" is a lot different than "expected to be placed on the PUP list to start the season."

ChiefsCountry
03-09-2005, 01:06 AM
If Barber is healthy, we could have a very athletic starting group of linebackers with him, Bell, and Fujitia.

HipHopper4Life
03-09-2005, 01:06 AM
We better move on Ty Law soon. There's a rumor making the rounds that Charles Woodson is trying to convince Law to play with him in Oakland, I don't know how much merit that holds, but they are said to be best friends. If Surtain gets traded this week, our options are really limited.

DaWolf
03-09-2005, 01:13 AM
We better move on Ty Law soon. There's a rumor making the rounds that Charles Woodson is trying to convince Law to play with him in Oakland, I don't know how much merit that holds, but they are said to be best friends. If Surtain gets traded this week, our options are really limited.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Raiders move on Law. It's the type of thing they would do. I'd be surprised if it was to play with Woodson though, as Woodson's status certainly doesn't seem too clear. But then again, no one other than Al Davis knows what's really going on in Oakland...

Saggysack
03-09-2005, 01:28 AM
Guh? I would love to know what the Chiefs are going to do at outside linebacker. Hopefully we can get someone in the draft.

I'm thinking Tommy Polley. Young and looks like he will be cheap.

Count Zarth
03-09-2005, 01:29 AM
I'm thinking Tommy Polley. Young and looks like he will be cheap.

Actually I was thinking that yesterday. I think he'd be a great fit here.

Saggysack
03-09-2005, 01:46 AM
Actually I was thinking that yesterday. I think he'd be a great fit here.

He does look like a nice fit.

Honestly, I'm not really thrilled with any of the of FA WSB that are out there other than him. Warrick Holdman, nah, I'll pass. Rob Morris, I'll pass as well.

tk13
03-09-2005, 01:51 AM
He does look like a nice fit.

Honestly, I'm not really thrilled with any of the of FA WSB that are out there other than him. Warrick Holdman, nah, I'll pass. Rob Morris, I'll pass as well.
Yeah, but you have to remember almost anything is an upgrade over what we have already at almost every position... makes things a lot easier. :)

Saggysack
03-09-2005, 01:54 AM
Yeah, but you have to remember almost anything is an upgrade over what we have already at almost every position... makes things a lot easier. :)


ROFL

Ain't that the truth.

htismaqe
03-09-2005, 05:38 AM
Does this mean that Barber is ahead of schedule and may be ready for the start of the season? Because "wont be ready for the start of camp" is a lot different than "expected to be placed on the PUP list to start the season."

Good question.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 06:44 AM
Mitchell, who played a lot in the middle in Maslowski's absence, may be moved to the outside.


I was a knucklehead a week or 2 ago for saying this. :hmmm:

Even after I explained that Mitchell performed better on the outside in college before moving to the middle . :harumph:


Imagine that ....... :)

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 06:46 AM
From the way I get it, they want Maz to come back for a backup role in the middle ?


Anybody else read it this way ?

DaWolf
03-09-2005, 06:58 AM
From the way I get it, they want Maz to come back for a backup role in the middle ?

Anybody else read it this way ?

That's assuming Maz gets healthy. They've also got Biesel there...

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 07:16 AM
Good gawd that front office is horrible...A lot of good young CB's were on the market, probably more than any time in history, and we are now down to a crippled old Ty Law and a very average Donkey.

Pathetic....If anybody else in the country was as bad at their job as Carl Peterson is at his, they would have long since been fired.

Lzen
03-09-2005, 07:20 AM
I hope they manage to get Law or Surtain. Pat Surtain would be the better option, IMO since we don't know how well Ty will recover. I wonder if they will have Fujita, Bell in the middle, and Mitchell on the other outside LB spot. Perhaps Mitchell would be better suited for an outside LB spot. You know, a spot that requires less thinking.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 07:23 AM
I hope they manage to get Law or Surtain. Pat Surtain would be the better option, IMO since we don't know how well Ty will recover. I wonder if they will have Fujita, Bell in the middle, and Mitchell on the other outside LB spot. Perhaps Mitchell would be better suited for an outside LB spot. You know, a spot that requires less thinking.


See post # 19 .

The way it was in college before they switched him.

Lzen
03-09-2005, 07:24 AM
See post # 19 .

The way it was in college before they switched him.

Yeah, I know. I didn't realize that until you mentioned it last week. Perhaps you've guessed what the Chiefs have been thinking. I dunno, I don't wanna give up on Mitchell just yet. But it's obvious that Bell will man the middle much better than Kawika has done the past 2 seasons.

BigRedChief
03-09-2005, 07:26 AM
King Carl is going to pull a blockbuster trade up into the top 5 and take Johnson. Thats the plan. Right? Surely its not Biesel and Mitchell on the outside? Is it?

Gaz
03-09-2005, 07:27 AM
King Carl is going to pull a blockbuster trade up into the top 5 and take Johnson...

That gave me a woody.

xoxo~
Gaz
Staying at this desk for a while.

Count Zarth
03-09-2005, 07:28 AM
That gave me a woody.

xoxo~
Gaz
Staying at this desk for a while.


Gaz! Such a suggestive post. Shame on you.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 07:30 AM
Cleveland wants Johnson........ but are willing to trade down low enough to get him and pick up extra picks.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 07:31 AM
I hope they manage to get Law or Surtain. Pat Surtain would be the better option, IMO since we don't know how well Ty will recover. I wonder if they will have Fujita, Bell in the middle, and Mitchell on the other outside LB spot. Perhaps Mitchell would be better suited for an outside LB spot. You know, a spot that requires less thinking.


Surtain is a player that we badly need but if we end up with him for a 2nd round pick I will be very pissed...It will be a lot like the night the NFL announced that they were fuqing us in the a$$ on a 2nd round pick for Vermeil to get out of his consulting contract....It will basically be having a 2nd round pick taken away that had no business being taken away.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 07:31 AM
That gave me a woody.

xoxo~
Gaz
Staying at this desk for a while.



Look out Gaz, gochiefs is lurking upon his prey !

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 07:33 AM
Surtain is a player that we badly need but if we end up with him for a 2nd round pick I will be very pissed...It will be a lot like the night the NFL announced that they were fuqing us in the a$$ on a 2nd round pick for Vermeil to get out of his consulting contract....It will basically be having a 2nd round pick taken away that had no business being taken away.


I agree..... but CP would probally dropp back in the draft to pickup extra picks to lighten the load.

Having to give up a 2nd for Surtain now when Rolle was available is for $$$ is a slap in the face.

Count Zarth
03-09-2005, 07:33 AM
Look out Gaz, gochiefs is lurking upon his prey !

I only have eyes for you.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 07:35 AM
..It will basically be having a 2nd round pick taken away that had no business being taken away.

I agree considering the pro bowl quality KC drafts with its second round pick, it's a no brainer...KC shouldnt piss it away on Surtain.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 07:35 AM
I agree..... but CP would probally dropp back in the draft to pickup extra picks to lighten the load.

Having to give up a 2nd for Surtain now when Rolle was available is for $$$ is a slap in the face.


He will drop back and load up on his Eric Downings and Snoop Minnis'....

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 07:38 AM
I only have eyes for you.


Shut up kid, men are speaking.

BTW, Aren't you late for a nap with one of your Star Wars toys ?

BigRedChief
03-09-2005, 07:39 AM
He will drop back and load up on his Eric Downings and Snoop Minnis'....

And Bartee, Battle, Blundin, Freeman etc etc etc

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 07:42 AM
I agree considering the pro bowl quality KC drafts with its second round pick, it's a no brainer...KC shouldnt piss it away on Surtain.


As Chiefs fans, you are correct. We can only hope as each draft comes around that CP will figure out how to better serve the frachise with 2nd rd picks.

At CP's past record of 2nd rd picks.....trading a 2 even up is a slam dunk.

Chiefnj
03-09-2005, 07:42 AM
I would have no problem if the Chiefs gave up their 2nd round pick for either Surtain or Jamie Sharper who the Texans are reportedly trying to shop around. Each is an immediate impact player and a top 5 player at their respective positions.

The Chiefs screwed up with Rolle. There's no point crying about it.

I would also keep up negotiations with Law who's price has to be dropping because of his physical condition and because the market is drying up.

I would also try to sign Tommy Polley. He's not great, but he is a better WILL than what the Chiefs currently have (assuming Barber isn't going to be able to start).

I'd also consider Renaldo Hill the Cards nickle back. Again, not a great player, but probably a good value and an upgrade from Bartee and probably McLeon.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 07:45 AM
As Chiefs fans, you are correct. We can only hope as each draft comes around that CP will figure out how to better serve the frachise with 2nd rd picks.

At CP's past record of 2nd rd picks.....trading a 2 even up is a slam dunk.

Im just trying to follow the logic...Does one want to be pissed about trading the pick for a player that would be an upgrade to this secondary or does one prefer to be pissed about the player KC drafts with it's 2nd rounder?

ChiTown
03-09-2005, 07:50 AM
I would have no problem if the Chiefs gave up their 2nd round pick for either Surtain or Jamie Sharper who the Texans are reportedly trying to shop around. Each is an immediate impact player and a top 5 player at their respective positions.

The Chiefs screwed up with Rolle. There's no point crying about it.

.
:thumb:

Completely agree. :thumb: Why anyone would get upset, at this point, over losing a 2nd rd pick for an impact player is beyond me. Since when have we been able to draft defensive talent anyways? We have a one year window left with this team - sell the farm and lets get this sonofabitch done.

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 07:50 AM
We need another LB. Mitchell sucks. Mazlowski is done. Fox is a no-show. Beisel is a ST stud and mediocre at-best LB.

I wonder how much Brian Simmons is asking for?

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 07:52 AM
Im just trying to follow the logic...Does one want to be pissed about trading the pick for a player that would be an upgrade to this secondary or does one prefer to be pissed about the player KC drafts with it's 2nd rounder?


One would rather get your CB just for a big contract rather than a big contract and a 2nd round pick...If you keep your second round pick the laws of averages say even a dumb ass like Peterson has hope of backing into a good player every once and a while...

And when you are a Chiefs fan unfortunately the only thing you have left to grasp onto is hope.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 07:55 AM
:thumb:

Completely agree. :thumb: Why anyone would get upset, at this point, over losing a 2nd rd pick for an impact player is beyond me. Since when have we been able to draft defensive talent anyways? We have a one year window left with this team - sell the farm and lets get this sonofabitch done.


If we follow the logic that we have always failed in the past with draft picks so just give up on worrying about draft picks mentality then it would be the equvilent of saying we have failed for 30+ years at getting to the Super Bowl so just throw in the towel and stop trying to improve your team cause we have always failed anyway.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 07:57 AM
Polley allegedly isn't getting much interest...He would be a very nice speed upgrade outside that could come at a very reasonable price....And in a round about way would be coming back to where he belongs since the pick Tags fuqed on with Vermiel was used on him I believe.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 07:57 AM
One would rather get your CB just for a big contract rather than a big contract and a 2nd round pick...If you keep your second round pick the laws of averages say even a dumb ass like Peterson has hope of backing into a good player every once and a while...

Feh...dude is under contract with Miami. You're talking as if he's a FA. Let's at least try to be realistic about the situation. I think I understand why you would rather CP keep the pick because using the law of averages Surtain actually improving the Chiefs has a better chance of happening than the 2nd round pick succeeding.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 07:58 AM
If we follow the logic that we have always failed in the past with draft picks so just give up on worrying about draft picks mentality then it would be the equvilent of saying we have failed for 30+ years at getting to the Super Bowl so just throw in the towel and stop trying to improve your team cause we have always failed anyway.

WTF? So trading this pick is equivalent to giving up on the team? I've heard it all now.

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 07:59 AM
Polley allegedly isn't getting much interest...He would be a very nice speed upgrade outside that could come at a very reasonable price....And in a round about way would be coming back to where he belongs since the pick Tags fuqed on with Vermiel was used on him I believe.

I wouldn't be against that. We NEED another LB. Right now we have Bell (injury risk, but a damn fine player when healthy), Fujita (speed, but misses a lot of tackles), and a big steaming pile of shit for the rest of the LB corps.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 08:02 AM
Feh...dude is under contract with Miami. You're talking as if he's a FA. Let's at least try to be realistic about the situation. I think I understand why you would rather CP keep the pick because using the law of averages Surtain actually improving the Chiefs has a better chance of happening than the 2nd round pick succeeding.Titus,

I know you aren't that dumb...The point is so easy that even skinbra understood. Surtain isn't locked into a long term deal, if they trade for him they will have to pony up a large new contract all the same as they would have/should have for Rolle, Smoot, Baxter, Lucas or any other free agent CB they desired to get a deal done with yet this contract will come along with the price tag of a high draft pick to boot where as all the others they were pursing wouldn't...Not a tough concept to follow and my guess is you aren't having any trouble understanding it but would rather just go into your annoying mode that you often find refuge.

Chiefnj
03-09-2005, 08:03 AM
I wouldn't be against that. We NEED another LB. Right now we have Bell (injury risk, but a damn fine player when healthy), Fujita (speed, but misses a lot of tackles), and a big steaming pile of shit for the rest of the LB corps.


There is no free agent market for WILL linebackers this year. You might not like it, but Polley is currently better than the three healthy WILL's on the Chiefs (Beisel, Caver and Fox).

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 08:03 AM
WTF? So trading this pick is equivalent to giving up on the team? I've heard it all now.


Seriously dude, are you that dumb?

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 08:05 AM
Titus,

I know you aren't that dumb...The point is so easy that even skinbra understood. Surtain isn't locked into a long term deal, if they trade for him they will have to pony up a large new contract all the same as they would have/should have for Rolle, Smoot, Baxter, Lucas or any other free agent CB they desired to get a deal done with yet this contract will come along with the price tag of a high draft pick to boot where as all the others they were pursing wouldn't...Not tough a tough concept and my guess is you aren't having any trouble understanding it but would rather just go into your annoying mode that you often find refuge.

In order for KC to pony up the contract they have to acquire the player first. To acquire the player, they have to trade for him because Surtain is under contract with Miami

Talk about missing easy concepts, but please start trying to save face.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 08:05 AM
Im just trying to follow the logic...Does one want to be pissed about trading the pick for a player that would be an upgrade to this secondary or does one prefer to be pissed about the player KC drafts with it's 2nd rounder?


Logic and CP does not make a match.

As Chiefs fans, we are going to be pissed at anything he does. Sure he screwed up not getting Rolle. Getting Rolle could have unleashed many different approaches to follow on the fixing the defense. Rolle, fat contract, possibly keeping the 2nd rd pick ...... etc.

Damn, one could go as far as if he had gotten Rolle, trade the 2nd and get bell, etc.

CP never drafts wellin the 2nd round, but someday a blue chipper is going to come along. This team does need to get younger as much as better.

As armchair GM's we all are, CP can do no right.

Personally, I would have liked to have Rolle, Surtain, Hartwell as the 3 major upgrades in defense.

IMHO, Bell gets injured too much fo me to sign a big contract with.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 08:05 AM
In order for KC to pony up the contract they have to acquire the player first. To acquire the player, they have to trade for him because Surtain is under contract with Miami

Talk about missing easy concepts, but please start trying to save face.


Wow, I have been giving you far too much mental credit all these years.

HipHopper4Life
03-09-2005, 08:06 AM
I wonder how much Brian Simmons is asking for?


If you mean ex-Seahawk Anthony Simmons, he'd be a great pickup.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 08:06 AM
Seriously dude, are you that dumb?

What kind of question is that? Should I ask you if you've told you parents your gay yet?

Quit being ridiculous and stick to what you said.

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:06 AM
As armchair GM's we all are, CP can do no right.

With the exception of Titus and nmt1 - they're "armchair Rufus Dawes". :D

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:07 AM
If you mean ex-Seahawk Anthony Simmons, he'd be a great pickup.

Nope - current Bengal Brian Simmons (but I wouldn't be opposed to AS either) ;)

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 08:07 AM
With the exception of Titus and nmt1 - they're "armchair Rufus Dawes". :D


But not quite as sharp.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 08:08 AM
Wow, I have been giving you far too much mental credit all these years.

Ok, since Im apparently missing something, let's have you explain how KC signs Surtain while Miami has him under contract. Do you think Miami would just give him to KC for free?

Please explain.

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:09 AM
But not quite as sharp.

Dude, that's harsh. :D

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 08:09 AM
I'm not convinced Polley is really that much better than Caver.

IMHO, Caver neds more playing time, time he hasn't really had alot of. The most time he has ever had was last year in a few games.

Polley hit the ground in St Louis and has gone down hill ever since.

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:11 AM
I'm not convinced Polley is really that much better than Caver.

IMHO, Caver neds more playing time, time he hasn't really had alot of. The most time he has ever had was last year in a few games.

Polley hit the ground in St Louis and has gone down hill ever since.

Screw that. Caver can hardly contribute on ST. When he's in on goalline defense, he's a non-factor. That dude is as worthless a LB as the rest of our "non-Fujita/Bell" pack of losers.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 08:11 AM
Why is it when I ask a question about how trading for Surtain is going to be a bad thing given that CP has proven a poor draft record, this thread becomes an insult fest about me?

I figured it was a simple question.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 08:14 AM
Ok, since Im apparently missing something, let's have you explain how KC signs Surtain while Miami has him under contract. Do you think Miami would just give him to KC for free?

Please explain.


If Surtain were the only possibly available CB on the planet earth that could have been obtained then yes draft pick compensation is what would be required to get a CB....But we are/were in the middle of free agent signing period where many other alternatives were available that didn't require draft pick compensation....And the Chiefs clearly had every intention of getting a CB out of that market that didn't require "draft pick" compensation but their complete ineptidude in accomplishing that now has them left with Surtain (who will require draft pick compensation) as one of their few options.

With any ability in the front office they would have come out of this period with a top CB (ie Rolle and a 2nd round pick) in exchange for a large contract.

But now they have their asses against the wall because of their ineptitude and in order to come out with a top CB (ie Surtain) they will have to exchange a large contract and a 2nd round pick.

tiptap
03-09-2005, 08:15 AM
Ok, since Im apparently missing something, let's have you explain how KC signs Surtain while Miami has him under contract. Do you think Miami would just give him to KC for free?

Please explain.

The question, will Miami be able to afford Surtains' contract this year and stay under the cap. Or do they need cap relief come June 1st? It may be time to look hard at the cap situation in Miami remembering they have to give a SB for the 2nd pick in the draft that won't be insignificant even spread out over 6 or 7 years. How much pressure is there on Miami to move Surtain?

Saggysack
03-09-2005, 08:16 AM
Logic and CP does not make a match.

As Chiefs fans, we are going to be pissed at anything he does. Sure he screwed up not getting Rolle. Getting Rolle could have unleashed many different approaches to follow on the fixing the defense. Rolle, fat contract, possibly keeping the 2nd rd pick ...... etc.

Damn, one could go as far as if he had gotten Rolle, trade the 2nd and get bell, etc.

CP never drafts wellin the 2nd round, but someday a blue chipper is going to come along. This team does need to get younger as much as better.

As armchair GM's we all are, CP can do no right.

Personally, I would have liked to have Rolle, Surtain, Hartwell as the 3 major upgrades in defense.

IMHO, Bell gets injured too much fo me to sign a big contract with.

How would they have signed Rolle and traded the 2nd to get Bell? What team would that pick have gone to? He was a UFA

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:17 AM
Surtain has what, one year left on his deal? No team is going to trade for him while he has that contract - he has to renegotiate with Miami first.

jspchief
03-09-2005, 08:17 AM
Why is it when I ask a question about how trading for Surtain is going to be a bad thing given that CP has proven a poor draft record, this thread becomes an insult fest about me?

I figured it was a simple question.

It is a simple question. And it's not a bad thing.

Look what we were willing to spend on Welbourn.

Surtain is the best of the remaining CBs (Law would get consideration if was healthy). We can't afford to get a band-aid like Dyson (equivalent of McCleon '03). Surtain is an immediate quality upgrade at our weakest position. The likelyhood of getting an immediate upgrade in the second round this year small, even if you don't Peterson's track record into account.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 08:18 AM
Surtain has 1 year left on contract ,I do beleieve. Trading for him under current terms is pointless.

CP will not do this unless a new contract is agreed upon.

As for spending a 2nd for a proven player or keeping said pick, it's a catch 22/ damnned if you do /don't. Depends what the bigger need is, talent now over talent later and $$$ spent.

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:20 AM
We can't afford to get a band-aid like Dyson (equivalent of McCleon '03).

Where in the hell are you getting that? Dyson's numbers are THE SAME as Rolle's. ~55tackles, 4INTs, 11PDs /per season. He's a solid cover corner w/ speed.... that's a helluva lot more than we've got right now. Doesn't cost us a draft pick and won't break the bank - leaving $ for another LB... which we still desperately need.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 08:21 AM
Surtain has what, one year left on his deal? No team is going to trade for him while he has that contract - he has to renegotiate with Miami first.



Exactly and he will be getting a contract that looks a lot like Rolle's and will cost draft pick(s) while Rolle, Smoot, Lucas, Baxter or whoever else you thought was a suitable equivalent wouldn't have.

So if they wouldn't have effed up the Rolle deal they would be in the same place and still have their 2nd round pick....Which most people say isn't worth anything again because of the complete ineptitude of the Chiefs GM, front office and scouts but despite that it still has value cause even by accident those clowns will occassionaly back into a good player...So there is always hope as long as you have the pick...Give it away when you didn't have to and you don't even have that little tiny ray of hope.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 08:21 AM
If Surtain were the only possibly available CB on the planet earth that could have been obtained then yes draft pick compensation is what would be required to get a CB....But we are/were in the middle of free agent signing period where many other alternatives were available that didn't require draft pick compensation...

You're whining about spilled milk while Ive moved on. It's either Surtain or Law, now. The others you mentioned have been signed.

Trading a #2 for Surtain, at this point, is not that bad of a deal considering the postion the club is in and given their draft history.

The question is now, do we want the team to improve its secondary or roll the dice on a 2nd rounder. I think the former is the obvious answer at this point and besides we can bitch about what a waste of cap dollars he is in 2007 to boot.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 08:23 AM
How would they have signed Rolle and traded the 2nd to get Bell? What team would that pick have gone to? He was a UFA

Guess you didn't read it the way I meant for it to come out .....

My bad, I guess everybody knew that Bell was a UFA. I guess I should have made it quite clear that the trade was to Miami for Surtain/ our 2nd rd pick and then sign Bell.

Again, what I wished had happened was.........
Sign Rolle
Sign Hartwell
Trade for Surtain

But it didn't happen !

Saggysack
03-09-2005, 08:24 AM
Where in the hell are you getting that? Dyson's numbers are THE SAME as Rolle's. ~55tackles, 4INTs, 11PDs /per season. He's a solid cover corner w/ speed.... that's a helluva lot more than we've got right now. Doesn't cost us a draft pick and won't break the bank - leaving $ for another LB... which we still desperately need.


Andre Dyson looks like a steal, no doubt. But does he really fit in with our need of a #1 CB? Is he that good to be a considered a #1 CB.

You know what? It doesn't matter. He would be a fine addition to the Chiefs.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 08:25 AM
Exactly and he will be getting a contract that looks a lot like Rolle's...

Using that logic, then, I dont see it happening...

ChiTown
03-09-2005, 08:25 AM
If we follow the logic that we have always failed in the past with draft picks so just give up on worrying about draft picks mentality then it would be the equvilent of saying we have failed for 30+ years at getting to the Super Bowl so just throw in the towel and stop trying to improve your team cause we have always failed anyway.

No. I just see our window of opportunity as next year. After that, it's scrap the heap and start over from scratch. I'll take my chances with Surtain and this season over trying to develop a 2nd rder and the future seasons. jmo.

brent102fire
03-09-2005, 08:25 AM
Just yesterday, during the Bell press conference, CP said they would still pursue Hartwell. What happened over night? Is Teicher's info credible?

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:26 AM
Andre Dyson looks like a steal, no doubt. But does he really fit in with our need of a #1 CB? Is he that good to be a considered a #1 CB.

You know what? It doesn't matter. He would be a fine addition to the Chiefs.

Hell, I'd find a way to get him, Law, and Hartwell to go w/ Bell.

Gone w/ Holliday (out with the trash) would be Pillowbiter (Morton), Battle, Bartee, Mazlowski, Barber, Woods, and McCleon

brent102fire
03-09-2005, 08:28 AM
We better move on Ty Law soon. There's a rumor making the rounds that Charles Woodson is trying to convince Law to play with him in Oakland, I don't know how much merit that holds, but they are said to be best friends. If Surtain gets traded this week, our options are really limited.

Al Davis will probably go out and sign Law and Hartwell too. I just don't see how all these other teams can keep signing all these players but the Chiefs cannot... :hmmm:

Saggysack
03-09-2005, 08:30 AM
Guess you didn't read it the way I meant for it to come out .....

My bad, I guess everybody knew that Bell was a UFA. I guess I should have made it quite clear that the trade was to Miami for Surtain/ our 2nd rd pick and then sign Bell.

Again, what I wished had happened was.........
Sign Rolle
Sign Hartwell
Trade for Surtain

But it didn't happen !

I see now what you mean.

But, how would they have been able to afford a 10+mil signing bonus for Rolle, a 10+mil signing bonus for Hartwell and a 10+mil for having to resign Surtain after giving up a pick for him. Maybe I'm not seeing things right but, I just don't see them having that much money under the cap for that strategy.

MichaelH
03-09-2005, 08:30 AM
Al Davis will probably go out and sign Law and Hartwell too. I just don't see how all these other teams can keep signing all these players but the Chiefs cannot... :hmmm:

Because they don't have Carl Peterson. :banghead:

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 08:30 AM
Just yesterday, during the Bell press conference, CP said they would still pursue Hartwell. What happened over night? Is Teicher's info credible?


True, it was mentioned, what happened overnight ?

Smoke and mirrors ?

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 08:32 AM
I see now what you mean.

But, how would they have been able to afford a 10+mil signing bonus for Rolle, a 10+mil signing bonus for Hartwell and a 10+mil for having to resign Surtain after giving up a pick for him. Maybe I'm not seeing things right but, I just don't see them having that much money under the cap for that strategy.


IMHO,There are going to be some June 1st cuts that would help this out, How, I can't say...that's not my department. :D

tiptap
03-09-2005, 08:33 AM
If Surtain were the only possibly available CB on the planet earth that could have been obtained then yes draft pick compensation is what would be required to get a CB....But we are/were in the middle of free agent signing period where many other alternatives were available that didn't require draft pick compensation....And the Chiefs clearly had every intention of getting a CB out of that market that didn't require "draft pick" compensation but their complete ineptidude in accomplishing that now has them left with Surtain (who will require draft pick compensation) as one of their few options.

With any ability in the front office they would have come out of this period with a top CB (ie Rolle and a 2nd round pick) in exchange for a large contract.

But now they have their asses against the wall because of their ineptitude and in order to come out with a top CB (ie Surtain) they will have to exchange a large contract and a 2nd round pick.

Rolle isn't a big CB and he has played on a team with a good defense with the Titans. He will continue to produce well on the good defense in Baltimore. I don't think he was the physical CB that would match up with Moss or Porter well anyway. Now I might think about giving up the 1st round pick for Miami's 2nd round pick and Surtain. This would free up 1st round money for Surtain, a known quantity and still give us the same number of picks on the first day in a strong defensive draft (admittedly weak at LB). I might look at Oregon State's CB or a pass rusher in the two 2nd round picks. But I bet Miami can't afford to pay two 1st round picks. This alone though would indicate that Miami may be having to entertain some movement of Surtain in order to make the limit and they are looking to move him off their roster someway.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 08:33 AM
Al Davis will probably go out and sign Law and Hartwell too. I just don't see how all these other teams can keep signing all these players but the Chiefs cannot... :hmmm:

Maybe they are like Denver but hasn't been caught yet ? :hmmm:

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 08:33 AM
It's in the thread title post:

Peterson said the Chiefs would drop their pursuit of Baltimore's Ed Hartwell, who, like Bell, had visited Arrowhead Stadium last week, and all other free-agent linebackers.

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 08:34 AM
Al Davis will probably go out and sign Law and Hartwell too. I just don't see how all these other teams can keep signing all these players but the Chiefs cannot... :hmmm:

Because they aren't afraid to WORK. The fat f*ck in control @ 1 Arrowhead Dr is a lazy, arrogant prick who throws a lowball offer on the table then expects the PLAYER and their agent to do all the negotiating/"leg-work". Other teams appear to TARGET PLAYERS, then find a way to GET THE DEAL DONE.

It's all about work ethic. F*ckface's work ethic sucks.

Saggysack
03-09-2005, 08:35 AM
Hell, I'd find a way to get him, Law, and Hartwell to go w/ Bell.

Gone w/ Holliday (out with the trash) would be Pillowbiter (Morton), Battle, Bartee, Mazlowski, Barber, Woods, and McCleon


I'm only accounting for what we have now without speculating cuts. As of right now I just don't see Hartwell as a viable financial option for them.

I would really like to see Dyson's starting price before even thinking Law and Dyson could be signed.

Stinger
03-09-2005, 08:44 AM
I wouldn't be against that. We NEED another LB. Right now we have Bell (injury risk, but a damn fine player when healthy), Fujita (speed, but misses a lot of tackles), and a big steaming pile of shit for the rest of the LB corps.And with respect to Carl saying that they are not looking a another LB, what happen if Hartwell lowered his price?

This little blurb is interseting in the Arizon article (below): Graves declined to comment, but there's a belief among some teams that Hartwell is pricing himself out of the marketIt also looks like the Dolphins are going after Spragan ( link (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2005/03/09/a11c_dolphins_0309.html) ) Spragan was close to a deal before having to make his flight home to Denver, but is expected to become the fourth free agent to sign with the Dolphins today. He is will compete for the starting strong-side spot, which was vacated when Morlon Greenwood signed with Houston. ~snip~ Spragan, at 6-3 and 239 pounds, has the size that Dolphins coach Nick Saban wants in his linebackers. Spragan, 28, made a career-high 67 tackles for the Denver Broncos last season. ~snip~ Harold Lewis, the agent for linebacker Ed Hartwell, said there is no truth to the published report that the Dolphins made an offer to Hartwell, a free agent who played for Baltimore. It also looks like Arizona is just barely under the cap ( link (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0309cardsnb0309.html)).With the additions of Griffith, quarterback Kurt Warner, offensive tackle Oliver Ross, defensive end Chike Okeafor and running back Troy Hambrick, the Cardinals are approaching their free-agent budget of $15 million in cap space.

"The thing we're excited about is we have bolstered ourselves in a number of areas," Graves said. "We have an offensive line that we believe can be in place for us for a long time. We still have a couple of positions we'd like to add, but I think the depth on our team is probably better than it's been in a number of years."

Graves doesn't anticipate additional big names signing, but the team could add four to five more players at reasonable prices.

That would seem to rule out the chance of signing middle linebacker Ed Hartwell, a free agent from Baltimore.
If not mistaken those where the two others that were in serious consideration for Hartwell. Where would that put us?

dirk digler
03-09-2005, 09:07 AM
Just yesterday, during the Bell press conference, CP said they would still pursue Hartwell. What happened over night? Is Teicher's info credible?

That is what I thought as well. Maybe CP is not lying and Teicher is the one making shit up. I think they are still trying to sign Hartwell.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 09:14 AM
Ive moved on.

Clearly Lamar moves on that quickly when it comes to Peterson's ineptitude also....I prefer to hold folks a little more accountable than just a "oh well"...


A lot of Super Bowl teams have been built off of 1st,2nd and 3rd round draft picks so that may be spilled milk to you and Carl but it also may explain why nearly everyone else has been in competition for a Super Bowl during his 16 years except him and the Chiefs.

MGRS13
03-09-2005, 09:15 AM
That is what I thought as well. Maybe CP is not lying and Teicher is the one making shit up. I think they are still trying to sign Hartwell.
We are still going to pursue Hartwell just like we are waiting to sign Rolle before we go ahead with any other contracts. Get over it move on Hartwell will not be a Chief.

Mr. Laz
03-09-2005, 09:17 AM
I call bullshit. Hartwell is still in the cards. Carl is being a tough SOB negotiator.

i hope you don't break my heart ............... again :sulk:

Count Zarth
03-09-2005, 09:27 AM
Shut up kid, men are speaking.

BTW, Aren't you late for a nap with one of your Star Wars toys ?

There's no need to be a dick. Why don't you drop it?

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 09:32 AM
Clearly Lamar moves on that quickly when it comes to Peterson's ineptitude also....I prefer to hold folks a little more accountable than just a "oh well"...


A lot of Super Bowl teams have been built off of 1st,2nd and 3rd round draft picks so that may be spilled milk to you and Carl but it also may explain why nearly everyone else has been in competition for a Super Bowl during his 16 years except him and the Chiefs.

I am not Lamar so you can sing that song all day and it has zero effect on me. Griping about how bad it would be to lose a 2nd round pick because Rolle wouldnt have cost one, at this point is absurd. Further, to then actually pretend that KC has a 'chance' at getting an immediate impact player with that pick is just downright insulting to anyone who's read your posts over the life of this BB.

Im pretty sure I understand your motives behind not wanting to lose that precious 2nd round pick, now. Because Surtain has a better chance of helping the team than whoever KC picks with that pick and you dont want that to happen.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 09:34 AM
I am not Lamar so you can sing that song all day and it has zero effect on me. Griping about how bad it would be to lose a 2nd round pick because Rolle wouldnt have cost one, at this point is absurd. Further, to then actually pretend that KC has a 'chance' at getting an immediate impact player with that pick is just downright insulting to anyone who's read your posts over the life of this BB.

Im pretty sure I understand your motives behind not wanting to lose that precious 2nd round pick, now. Because Surtain has a better chance of helping the team than whoever KC picks with that pick and you dont want that to happen.


Good to see you have it all figured out.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 09:35 AM
Good to see you have it all figured out.

When it comes to you and this franchise, it's pretty easy.

Iowanian
03-09-2005, 09:40 AM
I hate getting my chain yanked like my Football IQ is 25, as a fan.

Carl........Getting "off" the Hartwell wagon before he's signed somewhere else is recockulous. Kawika Mitchell has shown poor reaction time, decision making, initial movement and coverage and tackling in open space..............What in the hell makes anyone thing he's capable of being a successful SAM?!

I hate the idea of giving up the 2nd round pick. I also look at the list of 2nd round picks during the Carl era, and don't see many who even played much, let alone made an impact. I'd Like to see a starting CB in KC...be that Law, Surtain or those lost. I don't really want to see a Blockbuster Contract go to Law, unless he's sure he can play day 1.

If a contract or reason can be worked out with Surtain, thats essentially a second round draft pick, who is a pro bowl Corner. I'll take that over the next Mike Eddie Freeman any day of the week, the more I think about it. Hopefully, the price can be lowered, or the 2nd round pick NEXT year.

ROYC75
03-09-2005, 09:40 AM
There's no need to be a dick. Why don't you drop it?

Speaking of dicks, how is the biggest dickhead on the planet doing today ?

Ya want it to stop, it starts with you, it really is that simple. :)

HC_Chief
03-09-2005, 09:58 AM
I hate getting my chain yanked like my Football IQ is 25, as a fan.

Carl........Getting "off" the Hartwell wagon before he's signed somewhere else is recockulous. Kawika Mitchell has shown poor reaction time, decision making, initial movement and coverage and tackling in open space..............What in the hell makes anyone thing he's capable of being a successful SAM?!

I hate the idea of giving up the 2nd round pick. I also look at the list of 2nd round picks during the Carl era, and don't see many who even played much, let alone made an impact. I'd Like to see a starting CB in KC...be that Law, Surtain or those lost. I don't really want to see a Blockbuster Contract go to Law, unless he's sure he can play day 1.

If a contract or reason can be worked out with Surtain, thats essentially a second round draft pick, who is a pro bowl Corner. I'll take that over the next Mike Eddie Freeman any day of the week, the more I think about it. Hopefully, the price can be lowered, or the 2nd round pick NEXT year.

Preach on, brother! :D

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 10:02 AM
I hate the idea of giving up the 2nd round pick. I also look at the list of 2nd round picks during the Carl era, and don't see many who even played much, let alone made an impact. I'd Like to see a starting CB in KC...be that Law, Surtain or those lost. I don't really want to see a Blockbuster Contract go to Law, unless he's sure he can play day 1.

If a contract or reason can be worked out with Surtain, thats essentially a second round draft pick, who is a pro bowl Corner. I'll take that over the next Mike Eddie Freeman any day of the week, the more I think about it. Hopefully, the price can be lowered, or the 2nd round pick NEXT year.

And I get compared to Rufus for making the same point.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 10:34 AM
And I get compared to Rufus for making the same point.


You earned that comparison over time not just with one post...

Woodrow Call
03-09-2005, 11:02 AM
What does everyone think of Herndon? I never paid much attention to him when the Chiefs played Denver. Is he a viable option at CB or more of a nickel?

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 11:19 AM
You earned that comparison over time not just with one post...

I dont find it altogether suprising that when I bothered to hold you to your own ill concieved words that you had to run to the insults.

Wile_E_Coyote
03-09-2005, 11:21 AM
East Valley Tribune 3/9/05

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=37661
EXTRA POINTS

Indications are free-agent linebacker Ed Hartwell would like to play in Arizona and Hartwell lost a possible landing spot when Kansas City signed linebacker Kendrell Bell Tuesday. But Graves termed Hartwell coming to Arizona "remote," presumably because of the hefty contract Hartwell is seeking. . . .

Graves said the heaviest freeagent action is over with the Cards close to spending their budget.

"I anticipate the foot on the accelerator will be lighter than it has been in the first week," Graves said. . . .

Iowanian
03-09-2005, 11:29 AM
Titus,

I just typed it in my best "Isaac Hayes" sweet-love-voice.

KCTitus
03-09-2005, 11:35 AM
Titus,

I just typed it in my best "Isaac Hayes" sweet-love-voice.

I thought it had a little Barry White in there too... :D