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Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 04:31 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/NFL_SC-RUMOR


A source told the Palm Beach Post that the Dolphins are closing in a deal that would ship Patrick Surtain to either Minnesota, Seattle or Kansas City.

HolmeZz
03-09-2005, 04:32 PM
There's no way he's going to Minnesota. :p

Seattle's some tough competition though, especially since Alexander's been thrown in the mix.

nychief
03-09-2005, 04:32 PM
Minn would take Smoot and Surtain? I remember having a dream like that once....

HolmeZz
03-09-2005, 04:33 PM
Minnesota already has Williams and Winfield to go along with Smoot. They wouldn't trade for Surtain. They'd be stupid to.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 04:33 PM
Yeah - Minny would play a permanent nickel.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Seattle's some tough competition though, especially since Alexander's been thrown in the mix.


Any team with interest is stiff competition for the inferior skills of Peterson.

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Maybe Red wants to use up all of Minn's cap space, but also send one final big **** you to the Minnesota fans.

nychief
03-09-2005, 04:37 PM
Maybe Red wants to use up all of Minn's cap space, but also send one final big **** you the Minnesota fans.


they can make up the money by scalping Super Bowl ticket....

Kris Kringle
03-09-2005, 04:38 PM
If the trade is for a 2nd round pick, I hope he goes to Minn. or Sea. We'll sign Law instead. If the trade is for a reasonable combination of lower round picks, then I hope we get him. We can't lose our 2nd round pick.

HolmeZz
03-09-2005, 04:39 PM
Who are you planning on drafting with our 2nd round pick?

Stinger
03-09-2005, 04:39 PM
they can make up the money by scalping Super Bowl ticket....

Nice

eazyb81
03-09-2005, 04:41 PM
If the trade is for a 2nd round pick, I hope he goes to Minn. or Sea. We'll sign Law instead. If the trade is for a reasonable combination of lower round picks, then I hope we get him. We can't lose our 2nd round pick.

And if we don't get Law? Will you be satisfied with Dyson or Herndon? Signing Law is anything but a gimme.

nychief
03-09-2005, 04:41 PM
Who are you planning on drafting with our 2nd round pick?

Samari Rolle

MGRS13
03-09-2005, 04:42 PM
If the trade is for a 2nd round pick, I hope he goes to Minn. or Sea. We'll sign Law instead. If the trade is for a reasonable combination of lower round picks, then I hope we get him. We can't lose our 2nd round pick.
Yea lets wait to waste it in the draft. I can't wait to draft a guy in the second that should go in the seventh. Whats Surtain ever done but prove himself?












?

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 04:42 PM
If the trade is for a 2nd round pick, I hope he goes to Minn. or Sea. We'll sign Law instead. If the trade is for a reasonable combination of lower round picks, then I hope we get him. We can't lose our 2nd round pick.

This is the part where it is required that a fan step in and remind you that our GM, scouts and front office are horrible at drafting players so losing the draft pick is completely irrelevant. :)

philfree
03-09-2005, 04:55 PM
A 2nd round pick for a pro bowl CB seems like a no brainer to me for any team. To me trading a pick for a player is the same as drafting a player with that pick. The pick is worth 1 player and you get one player either way. The financial cost may be different but to me that's the only difference.

PhilFree :arrow:

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 04:56 PM
A 2nd round pick for a pro bowl CB seems like a no brainer to me for any team. To me trading a pick for a player is the same as drafting a player with that pick. The pick is worth 1 player and you get one player either way. The financial cost may be different but to me that's the only difference.

PhilFree :arrow:

I think a lot of the explanations our FO is giving this year are really just covers for their cheapness.

Ash
03-09-2005, 04:57 PM
This is the part where it is required that a fan step in and remind you that our GM, scouts and front office are horrible at drafting players so losing the draft pick is completely irrelevant. :)

so true

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 04:57 PM
I think a lot of the explanations our FO is giving this year are really just covers for their cheapness.
or lack of capspace?

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 04:57 PM
I think a lot of the explanations our FO is giving this year are really just covers for their cheapness.
or maybe we're seeing what hartwell will say before we pull the trigger on a cb?

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 04:59 PM
or lack of capspace?

A lack of capspace, but also a lack of desire to pay large signing bonuses.

ZootedGranny
03-09-2005, 05:01 PM
The Palm Beach Post report Sportsline referenced was written before Smoot signed with the Vikings. They still have the money to sign Surtain, but it'd make no sense to pay that much for Smoot to be a nickel corner.

tk13
03-09-2005, 05:02 PM
A 2nd round pick for a pro bowl CB seems like a no brainer to me for any team. To me trading a pick for a player is the same as drafting a player with that pick. The pick is worth 1 player and you get one player either way. The financial cost may be different but to me that's the only difference.

PhilFree :arrow:
But when you can add other quality players at that position for similar money through free agency without losing a draft pick, that is obviously the most logical way to go... why give up an opportunity to at least try and get a starting player in the 2nd round. If you draft a good player you can find a starter, say at OLB, at a much cheaper price than you would in FA. Now saying that and doing that are two different things obviously. On the other hand, I can't imagine if Carl drafted a CB or OLB in the 2nd round that he wouldn't be any worse than what we already have....

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 05:04 PM
But when you can add other quality players at that position for similar money through free agency without losing a draft pick, that is obviously the most logical way to go... why give up an opportunity to at least try and get a starting player in the 2nd round. If you draft a good player you can find a starter, say at OLB, at a much cheaper price than you would in FA. Now saying that and doing that are two different things obviously. On the other hand, I can't imagine if Carl drafted a CB or OLB in the 2nd round that he wouldn't be any worse than what we already have....

The problem is you have to know when to strike. If the FO mistimes what they plan we could end up with nothing. If the deal is good you jump on it. You don't sit on your hands hoping a better deal reveals itself.

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:04 PM
I think a lot of the explanations our FO is giving this year are really just covers for their cheapness.

As popular as that train of thought is around here I don't buy into it. I really don't think the Chiefs spend their time thinking up excuses in an attempt to dupe their fans. As far as cheap goes I don't think that's the right word but IMO the player salaries are out of control.


PhilFree :arrow:

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 05:06 PM
As popular as that train of thought is around here I don't buy into it. I really don't think the Chiefs spend their time thinking up excuses in an attempt to dupe their fans. As far as cheap goes I don't think that's the right word but IMO the player salaries are out of control.


PhilFree :arrow:

The whole spinal injury fiasco is still under my skin.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 05:07 PM
As popular as that train of thought is around here I don't buy into it. I really don't think the Chiefs spend their time thinking up excuses in an attempt to dupe their fans. As far as cheap goes I don't think that's the right word but IMO the player salaries are out of control.


PhilFree :arrow:
Ill agree.

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:09 PM
But when you can add other quality players at that position for similar money through free agency without losing a draft pick, that is obviously the most logical way to go... why give up an opportunity to at least try and get a starting player in the 2nd round. If you draft a good player you can find a starter, say at OLB, at a much cheaper price than you would in FA. Now saying that and doing that are two different things obviously. On the other hand, I can't imagine if Carl drafted a CB or OLB in the 2nd round that he wouldn't be any worse than what we already have....

Ideally you'd want to maximize your personel acquisitions but sometimes it don't work out. If we don't trade for Surtain and Laws foot don't heal then where are we?

PhilFree :arrow:

tk13
03-09-2005, 05:12 PM
Ideally you'd want to maximize your personel acquisitions but sometimes it don't work out. If we don't trade for Surtain and Laws foot don't heal then where are we?

PhilFree :arrow:
These are all valid points, I didn't say it couldn't backfire... if our doctors think he'll be alright I'm willing to take the chance on Law... in my ideal world we'd sign somebody like Law, sign Herndon, and use that #2 pick with others to move up and get Derrick Johnson for an OLB position, and at least look 10 times better on paper for next year.

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:16 PM
The whole spinal injury fiasco is still under my skin.


He admitted to having the condition. The same type of condition that Miceal Irvin retired from after he discovered he had it. IMO Rolle is gambling with his health/life by playing with his condition and more so then your average NFL player.


PhilFree :arrow:

chiefs4me
03-09-2005, 05:19 PM
I read where CP said he would like to have Surtain and that Surtain wants to be a chief, but they had to agree on a contract that made sense.....:rolleyes: meaning he probably wants too much money. The man wants to leave the dolphins for sure.

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 05:21 PM
He admitted to having the condition. The same type of condition that Miceal Irvin retired from after he discovered he had it. IMO Rolle is gambling with his health/life by playing with his condition and more so then your average NFL player.


PhilFree :arrow:

It is pretty unimportant to get into this, but I believe the article on the Ravens had agreed on a deal with Rolle by Saturday night. I also think that when Carl or the FO in general learned this they released the info about the injury to cover their asses. I don't buy what Carl, the Chiefs Organization, and the KC media has been saying.

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:21 PM
These are all valid points, I didn't saw it couldn't backfire... if our doctors think he'll be alright I'm willing to take the chance on Law... in my ideal world we'd sign somebody like Law, sign Herndon, and use that #2 pick with others to move up and get Derrick Johnson for an OLB position, and at least look 10 times better on paper for next year.

If Laws foot checks out while in KC and our doctors say that it's healling just fine then great but we still won't know anything till he starts trying to run and cut. I don't know that we can afford to wait for that day to make a decision.


PhilFree :arrow:

eazyb81
03-09-2005, 05:23 PM
I read where CP said he would like to have Surtain and that Surtain wants to be a chief, but they had to agree on a contract that made sense.....:rolleyes: meaning he probably wants too much money. The man wants to leave the dolphins for sure.

Well then what the hell are we waiting on? Negotiate a contract and make the deal. I just have a bad feeling that CP is going to dick around by saving a couple thousand dollars and we are going to get stuck out in the cold with Herndon or nobody.

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:24 PM
It is pretty unimportant to get into this, but I believe the article on the Ravens had agreed on a deal with Rolle by Saturday night. I also think that when Carl or the FO in general learned this they released the info about the injury to cover their asses. I don't buy what Carl, the Chiefs Organization, and the KC media has been saying.


I don't know but Rolle does admit to having the condition so it is real.


PhilFree :arrow:

unlurking
03-09-2005, 05:25 PM
If Laws foot checks out while in KC and our doctors say that it's healling just fine then great but we still won't know anything till he starts trying to run and cut. I don't know that we can afford to wait for that day to make a decision.


PhilFree :arrow:
If CP is squawking about what Surtain wants, wait 'til Law shows up.

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 05:25 PM
I don't know but Rolle does admit to having the condition so it is real.


PhilFree :arrow:

It doesn't matter if it is real if the Chiefs didn't seem to have a serious problem with it until after they found out Rolle was as good as gone. Baltimore didn't seem to have a problem with it.

C-Mac
03-09-2005, 05:26 PM
These are all valid points, I didn't say it couldn't backfire... if our doctors think he'll be alright I'm willing to take the chance on Law... in my ideal world we'd sign somebody like Law, sign Herndon, and use that #2 pick with others to move up and get Derrick Johnson for an OLB position, and at least look 10 times better on paper for next year.

:thumb:

C-Mac
03-09-2005, 05:31 PM
I don't know but Rolle does admit to having the condition so it is real.
PhilFree :arrow:

It also was interesting that the doctors discovered it while Rolle did not disclose it prior to the physical.

C-Mac
03-09-2005, 05:32 PM
Well then what the hell are we waiting on? Negotiate a contract and make the deal. I just have a bad feeling that CP is going to dick around by saving a couple thousand dollars and we are going to get stuck out in the cold with Herndon or nobody.

Your living in the 60's...........couple thousand dollars. :rolleyes:

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:34 PM
It also was interesting that the doctors discovered it while Rolle did not disclose it prior to the physical.

Yes it is and that being the case if I were gonna write that check I might do a litttle more investigation before doing so.


PhilFree :arrow:

eazyb81
03-09-2005, 05:35 PM
Your living in the 60's...........couple thousand dollars. :rolleyes:

Thanks, I was being sarcastic and trying to imply that Carl is a nickel and dimer....

keg in kc
03-09-2005, 05:35 PM
Hello, vague story.

DTLB58
03-09-2005, 05:36 PM
Well then what the hell are we waiting on? Negotiate a contract and make the deal. I just have a bad feeling that CP is going to dick around by saving a couple thousand dollars and we are going to get stuck out in the cold with Herndon or nobody.

I have a feeling Carl is going to dick around with this also and Surtain ends up in Indy for edge James.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 05:38 PM
I have a feeling Carl is going to dick around with this also and Surtain ends up in Indy for edge James.
Except that one of the parties wasnt interested in this deal.

Frazod
03-09-2005, 05:45 PM
This is exactly why we should have tagged Blaylock. He would have made a great pot-sweetener in a deal like this. Instead, we got nothing. :shake:

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:51 PM
This is exactly why we should have tagged Blaylock. He would have made a great pot-sweetener in a deal like this. Instead, we got nothing. :shake:

That would of messed up our cap in a big way. I don't think that would have been feasible.


PhilFree :arrow:

Logical
03-09-2005, 05:52 PM
As popular as that train of thought is around here I don't buy into it. I really don't think the Chiefs spend their time thinking up excuses in an attempt to dupe their fans. As far as cheap goes I don't think that's the right word but IMO the player salaries are out of control.


PhilFree :arrow: I think you completely underestimate the evil that is embodied in Carl Peterson.

Frazod
03-09-2005, 05:54 PM
That would of messed up our cap in a big way. I don't think that would have been feasible.


PhilFree :arrow:

Well, it doesn't matter anyway. I can't imagine he would have been scheduled to make that much, though.

Of course, I don't follow these things since all the speculation drives me insane. It always just seemed to me that it would have been nice to deal him to a RB-strapped team for some defensive talent. Oh well.

philfree
03-09-2005, 05:58 PM
I think you completely underestimate the evil that is embodied in Carl Peterson.


ROFL I'm pretty sure that his goal from the start was to woo Chiefs fans under the ether so he could steal their collective souls.


PhilFree :arrow:

keg in kc
03-09-2005, 05:59 PM
I don't follow these things since all the speculation drives me insane.And we all know how long a trip that would be...

philfree
03-09-2005, 06:03 PM
Well, it doesn't matter anyway. I can't imagine he would have been scheduled to make that much, though.


If he's franchised tagged he's gonna cost the avg of the top 5 RBs in the league against the cap. If transition tagged he counts the avg of the top ten I think and we get a chance to match. I hate losing Blaylock but sometime things just can't be avoided.


PhilFree :arrow:

Frazod
03-09-2005, 06:06 PM
And we all know how long a trip that would be...

:moon:

C-Mac
03-09-2005, 06:17 PM
Thanks, I was being sarcastic and trying to imply that Carl is a nickel and dimer....

So was I.........:D

eazyb81
03-09-2005, 06:33 PM
So was I.........:D

ROFL

brent102fire
03-09-2005, 06:40 PM
If the trade is for a 2nd round pick, I hope he goes to Minn. or Sea. We'll sign Law instead. If the trade is for a reasonable combination of lower round picks, then I hope we get him. We can't lose our 2nd round pick.

Let's see...a 2nd rounder out of college who has never played in the NFL or trade that pick for a Top-Notch CB in Patrick Surtain...the Chiefs would be stupid not to trade for Surtain. It's really not that hard. :shake:

whoman69
03-09-2005, 07:16 PM
I think you completely underestimate the evil that is embodied in Carl Peterson.
Maybe these guys know.

whoman69
03-09-2005, 07:17 PM
This is exactly why we should have tagged Blaylock. He would have made a great pot-sweetener in a deal like this. Instead, we got nothing. :shake:
Nobody was going to pay that penalty for Blaylock. We would have got less than nothing, we'd have gotten sacked with his big cap number.

htismaqe
03-09-2005, 07:47 PM
I don't know why everybody is so worried about giving up a 2nd-round pick.

The Patriots gave up a 3rd to get Duane Starks.

beavis
03-09-2005, 07:49 PM
I don't know why everybody is so worried about giving up a 2nd-round pick.

The Patriots gave up a 3rd to get Duane Starks.
I'll have you know there is another Joe Valerio out there just waiting to be taken with that pick.

philfree
03-09-2005, 07:56 PM
I don't know why everybody is so worried about giving up a 2nd-round pick.

The Patriots gave up a 3rd to get Duane Starks.


I don't either. Surtain=our 2nd round pick so we all we gotta do is address the other roster spot with a FA. Sign Polley if it's LB we're looking for in round 2. It's just a numbers game IMO. If the plan is to have acquired five quality players by the end of our 2nd pick in the draft it shouldn't matter if they came via free agency, trade or draft pick as long as we acquire them.


PhilFree :arrow:

htismaqe
03-09-2005, 07:58 PM
I don't either. Surtain=our 2nd round pick so we all we gotta do is address the other roster spot with a FA. Sign Polley if it's LB we're looking for in round 2. It's just a numbers game IMO. If the plan is to have acquired five quality players by the end of our 2nd pick in the draft it shouldn't matter if they came via free agency, trade or draft pick as long as we acquire them.


PhilFree :arrow:

Egg-zackly.

Count Zarth
03-09-2005, 08:12 PM
If the Chiefs get Surtain and Hartwell I'd like to see them draft Donte Nicholson to play free safety.

Manila-Chief
03-09-2005, 11:37 PM
If the Chiefs get Surtain and Hartwell I'd like to see them draft Donte Nicholson to play free safety.

Unless you are dreaming, why mention Hartwell? Kingless already said he will not go after him.

Do I want Hartwell ... you bet I do but it will not happen. Seems to me we ought to get both Hartwell and Law/Surtain. (Yes, I think it is possible ... creative cap management and cut a couple of players.) That would really upgrade out D. One of our pretending to be C.B.'s could revert back to S. and fill our need at S. Warfield & Law/Surtain covering the W.R. ... with Bell, Hartwell, and Fugi coming after the QB will give our O many more opportunities.

I'm okay with trading our 2nd. for Surtain. Unless Kingless gets extremely lucky (hasn't happened too often in the past) whoever he picks will not start for at least 5 years. Surtain will be a great 2nd. round pick.

Got a question for you guys ... does anyone know of a site (by someone that is a least a little of an experts) ... that rank CB's in the NFL? Where does Surtain rate compared to Rolle, Law, Smoot, etc. Someone was nice enough to post the ranking of F.A.'s ... but Surtain was not on the list.

If Surtain is considered equal to are a little below Law in talent ... then pull the trigger on the trade because we don't know if/when Law recovers. I do like Law's leadership skills and believe that may be his best qualities for us. Would love for Kingless to get both Surtain and Law but in reality I know Kingless wouldn't do that even if both were for the minimum salary ... which we all know the player will not go for.

But, my big question is whether Kingless will get either one? If he doesn't get us an impact C.B. we can go ahead and start a discussion about next years draft and the new coaching staff.

Rausch
03-09-2005, 11:40 PM
I don't either. Surtain=our 2nd round pick so we all we gotta do is address the other roster spot with a FA. Sign Polley if it's LB we're looking for in round 2. It's just a numbers game IMO. If the plan is to have acquired five quality players by the end of our 2nd pick in the draft it shouldn't matter if they came via free agency, trade or draft pick as long as we acquire them.


PhilFree :arrow:

Frankly, Polley was one of the few guys on the Lambs defense who impressed me while hoping they lost each week...

tk13
03-09-2005, 11:52 PM
I don't either. Surtain=our 2nd round pick so we all we gotta do is address the other roster spot with a FA. Sign Polley if it's LB we're looking for in round 2. It's just a numbers game IMO. If the plan is to have acquired five quality players by the end of our 2nd pick in the draft it shouldn't matter if they came via free agency, trade or draft pick as long as we acquire them.


PhilFree :arrow:
I totally agree, it's just easier to acquire that many guys if a couple of them are draft picks.... they don't make nearly as much money.

HolmeZz
03-09-2005, 11:53 PM
What Carl said was that we wouldn't continue to negotiate with Hartwell. Not that we wouldn't sign him.

Manila-Chief
03-09-2005, 11:57 PM
I totally agree, it's just easier to acquire that many guys if a couple of them are draft picks.... they don't make nearly as much money.

IIRC .... the money difference is because the team must have enough money put away to sign the draft picks??? Therefore, if we trade for Surtain then we don't need money put away for our 2nd. pick and that would give us more under the cap.

el borracho
03-10-2005, 12:00 AM
If Laws foot checks out while in KC and our doctors say that it's healling just fine then great but we still won't know anything till he starts trying to run and cut. I don't know that we can afford to wait for that day to make a decision.


PhilFree :arrow:
If the Chiefs sign Hartwell, we will have to wait to sign Law. We will need to make some June cuts to make cap room.

keg in kc
03-10-2005, 12:02 AM
If the Chiefs sign Hartwell, we will have to wait to sign Law. We will need to make some June cuts to make cap room.Not necessarily. I think we might have (slightly) more cap room than's been reported. We cleared an assload cutting Holliday. Like 6 million.

Straight, No Chaser
03-10-2005, 12:10 AM
If the Chiefs sign Hartwell, we will have to wait to sign Law. We will need to make some June cuts to make cap room.

Why is there still hope we sign Ed Hartwell? Talk about a pipe dream.

It's on to cornerback.


--->

el borracho
03-10-2005, 12:10 AM
Not necessarily. I think we might have (slightly) more cap room than's been reported. We cleared an assload cutting Holliday. Like 6 million.
In that case can you imagine Hartwell, Bell and Law in free agency? We would have a ton of flexibility in the draft.

Would still want another CB (likely in the 1st or 2nd round) and possibly a safety (possibly a day two pick). I would want a DE to replace Hicks but I doubt that happens so that would allow us to look at offensive players (WR, Oline) on day one.

el borracho
03-10-2005, 12:11 AM
Why is there still hope we sign Ed Hartwell? Talk about a pipe dream.

It's on to cornerback.


--->
Supposedly Hartwell has a standing offer.

keg in kc
03-10-2005, 12:13 AM
In that case can you imagine Hartwell, Bell and Law in free agency? We would have a ton of flexibility in the draft.It depends on what their asking prices are. We could probably work the contracts so they'd fit now, but we'd have to watch for problems down the road.

There's almost always a way to work the cap...

beer bacon
03-10-2005, 12:14 AM
Why is there still hope we sign Ed Hartwell? Talk about a pipe dream.

It's on to cornerback.


--->

WPI and Scout.com reported that we still have a standing offer to him and that if he doesn't take it soon we will withdraw it. This seems to match up with what Carl said in his Q&A.

Go skim Phobia's "Calling my shot" thread. He lays out some pretty good reasons why Hartwell might sign with us.

tk13
03-10-2005, 12:17 AM
IIRC .... the money difference is because the team must have enough money put away to sign the draft picks??? Therefore, if we trade for Surtain then we don't need money put away for our 2nd. pick and that would give us more under the cap.
That would be extremely minimal "savings" under the cap. Draft picks don't make that much. Looking over some of the contracts from last year, our 2nd round pick would probably be looking roughly in the 5 year, $3.5 million contract - $1.5 million signing bonus range. We'd probably be talking around $600,000 of cap space for this next year. That's what makes the draft so important, if you can do it well you can add a quality player for hardly anything...

Straight, No Chaser
03-10-2005, 12:31 AM
WPI and Scout.com reported that we still have a standing offer to him and that if he doesn't take it soon we will withdraw it. This seems to match up with what Carl said in his Q&A.

Go skim Phobia's "Calling my shot" thread. He lays out some pretty good reasons why Hartwell might sign with us.

Maybe Carl was tweaking the tension a bit with his statement but there seems to be a few here dismissing the Cardinals (Dennis Green). He had an honest meeting with Hartwell. I'd like to know how much was on the table in both cases...


--->

beer bacon
03-10-2005, 12:39 AM
Maybe Carl was tweaking the tension a bit with his statement but there seems to be a few here dismissing the Cardinals (Dennis Green). He had an honest meeting with Hartwell. I'd like to know how much was on the table in both cases...


--->

Cardinals were not willing to offer a very big signing bonus. Back when we made an offer to him the speculation was that it included an 8 or 9 million dollar signing bonus. I don't know if that was ever verified.

IF WPI and scout.com are accurate I think we can be pretty confident that at least the Chiefs FO believe the best offer he has gotten so far is from us or they would not have told him to take it or leave it.

htismaqe
03-10-2005, 05:08 AM
If we waste any cap room on Ty Law at this point, I'm gonna be pissed.

Get Hartwell. Get Surtain. Sign Law in JUNE, when we have the ability to cut some guys to clear cap space. Sign Law in JUNE, when his asking price has come down to Earth.

CHIEF4EVER
03-10-2005, 05:17 AM
If we waste any cap room on Ty Law at this point, I'm gonna be pissed.

Get Hartwell. Get Surtain. Sign Law in JUNE, when we have the ability to cut some guys to clear cap space. Sign Law in JUNE, when his asking price has come down to Earth.

I would agree with the Law in JUNE part of your take with one caveat, ONLY IF 100% Healthy and ready to play day one.

Lzen
03-10-2005, 07:54 AM
If he's franchised tagged he's gonna cost the avg of the top 5 RBs in the league against the cap. If transition tagged he counts the avg of the top ten I think and we get a chance to match. I hate losing Blaylock but sometime things just can't be avoided.


PhilFree :arrow:

And if I heard correctly, ESPN mentioned something about that when discussing Edgerrin James last night. That figure was about 8 million. Somehow, I don't think it's too wise to pay your backup (possibly 3rd stringer) 8 million.

whoman69
03-10-2005, 08:28 AM
The problem is if we sign noone and wait til June to sign Law and he does not come here, we have totally fugged ourselves. Do you really want to look at the possiblity of McCleon starting opposite a rookie for the first four games?

Manila-Chief
03-10-2005, 08:37 AM
If we waste any cap room on Ty Law at this point, I'm gonna be pissed.

Get Hartwell. Get Surtain. Sign Law in JUNE, when we have the ability to cut some guys to clear cap space. Sign Law in JUNE, when his asking price has come down to Earth.

If we get Surtain we will not sign Law. All Kingless wants is one impact C.B. He thinks Warfield is good enough.

htismaqe
03-10-2005, 08:39 AM
If we get Surtain we will not sign Law. All Kingless wants is one impact C.B. He thinks Warfield is good enough.

That's absolutely incorrect. Carl Peterson has never said anything like that.

Both Grunhard and Holthus have said the Carl and Gunther want TWO CB's, and possibly 3. However, they expect to get 1 through the draft.

Manila-Chief
03-10-2005, 08:42 AM
The problem is if we sign noone and wait til June to sign Law and he does not come here, we have totally fugged ourselves. Do you really want to look at the possiblity of McCleon starting opposite a rookie for the first four games?

Strongly ... what he said!!!!

I think that if we lose Surtain ... then we have no choice to go hard after Law. We can't wait until June because he will not wait until June. He will be gone and we will not have the impact C.B. we needs ... and that is even if we draft a C.B. with the 15th.....

Dr. Van Halen
03-10-2005, 08:42 AM
This thread is mysteriously void of wackos claiming that CP and Mr. Hunt are insane and not genuinely interested in improving the team. There is legitimate discussion. It's shocking.

K. Bell was told that the Chiefs were getting a MLB, a CB, and a S. I would expect them to keep that. The trick is going to be signing two more guys with our cap number. I think the $6 million idea that was floating around certainly is not the current cap space -- maybe it's the potential cap space in June if we start axing a bunch of under-achievers. That has it's own risks.

The hold up with the Surtain deal is probably because of its complexity. Surtain wants a good salary and a big bonus. The Chiefs want a medium bonus and some sort of pre-arranged, multi-year deal in place (so we don't give up a huge sum for the one-year left on Surtain's current contract).

I know people keep saying that giving up the 2nd doesn't matter because the Chiefs can't draft. This is sort of true ... but look at other teams' previous draft picks. They are most complete crap. It's not that the Chiefs suck at the draft, it's that the draft sucks. It's a crapshoot. Get over it.

HC_Chief
03-10-2005, 08:44 AM
It's a crapshoot.

It is for KC, that much is certain. Other teams however, NE for example....

Manila-Chief
03-10-2005, 09:06 AM
That's absolutely incorrect. Carl Peterson has never said anything like that.

Both Grunhard and Holthus have said the Carl and Gunther want TWO CB's, and possibly 3. However, they expect to get 1 through the draft.

"... Carl and Gunther want TWO CB's" ..... but they didn't say they were going after 2 or 3 impact C.B.'s .... He mentioned 2 or 3 impact defensive players ... meaning different positions. I think the 2 or 3 would be second tier C.B.

I don't want to get into an argument coz I think we will be doing good to just get one or the other.

Don't get me wrong. I think the team would be much better if we could get Surtain and Law (and if he is healthy) then make Warfield the nickle ... I just don't hold out any hope for that to happen.

Also.... another issue about signing a F.A. ... where is the talk about upgrading our D.L.? Is there no impact DL out there who would make an impact? I've heard the F.O. talk about L.B.; C.B.; and S. .... but not DL... comments????

ROYC75
03-10-2005, 09:50 AM
Law will be gone before June....... Here are the teams interested in Law.

From Sportsline.......
Fantasy Analysis
Cleveland, Kansas City and Minnesota are also very interested in bringing the veteran in to fill glaring holes.
(Updated 02/28/2005).

I can see Cleveland going nuts over him. :hmmm:

ROYC75
03-10-2005, 09:52 AM
With Seattle in the mix for Surtain...... Cleveland with Law....


We could be sucking the hine tit.

Brock
03-10-2005, 09:52 AM
If we get Surtain we will not sign Law. All Kingless wants is one impact C.B. He thinks Warfield is good enough.

Whether that's true or not, Warfield is probably going to miss at least 4 games to suspension.

Woodrow Call
03-10-2005, 10:27 AM
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/215264_hawk10.html

SURTAIN BUZZ DU JOUR: The latest rumor regarding Dolphins Pro Bowl cornerback Patrick Surtain has him going to Jacksonville in a trade for safety Donovin Darius, the Jaguars' franchise player -- if, of course, the Jags can rework Darius' contract to fit under the Dolphins' salary cap.

Earlier this week, the buzz was Surtain and the second pick overall in next month's NFL draft were headed to the Seahawks for Alexander and Seattle's first-round pick (No. 23). Over the weekend, it was Surtain to the Seahawks for a second-round draft choice.