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View Full Version : Hartwell & Bell, who plays MLB / OLB ??


Kris Kringle
03-09-2005, 08:32 PM
Phobia says we'll all wake up in the morning and have a wonderful (Hartwell) Christmas present under the tree.

If that comes true, who is better suited to play MLB and who should play OLB? Why?

I'm no expert at all, but I get the impression that Hartwell will be better suited to play OLB.

Saulbadguy
03-09-2005, 08:33 PM
So why didn't you post in his thread? Why the need to start a new one?

Logical
03-09-2005, 08:39 PM
As far as the OLB spot the answer would be one of them poorly. JMHO

Douche Baggins
03-09-2005, 08:42 PM
I think Bell would be fine outside. What do you mean, Logi?

Hartwell needs to play middle.

jspchief
03-09-2005, 08:43 PM
I'll say the same thing here that I said in Phobia's thread.

There is a difference between lining up outside occasionally in a 3-4, and playing full time OLB in a 4-3.

I don't think Bell is suited to play OLB every down in a 4-3 defense.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 08:47 PM
I'll say the same thing here that I said in Phobia's thread.

There is a difference between lining up outside occasionally in a 3-4, and playing full time OLB in a 4-3.

I don't think Bell is suited to play OLB every down in a 4-3 defense.
But he certainly could play on 1st and 2nd and an occaisional 3rd if he were to blitz...

unlurking
03-09-2005, 08:47 PM
I'll say the same thing here that I said in Phobia's thread.

There is a difference between lining up outside occasionally in a 3-4, and playing full time OLB in a 4-3.

I don't think Bell is suited to play OLB every down in a 4-3 defense.
I agree with you, but I think the question wasn't between 4-3 and 3-4, and more along the lines of same scheme, what do we do with 2 MLBs?

ILChief
03-09-2005, 08:49 PM
i'd say Hartwell in the middle, Fujita and Bell on the outside

Logical
03-09-2005, 08:49 PM
I think Bell would be fine outside. What do you mean, Logi?

Hartwell needs too play middle.Bell weighs 257 and is none too bright. He has all those sacks because in a blitz situation he is great at find the gap. From what I have seen he is not agile enough to handle pass coverage an OLB has to handle. Again JMHO based on watching him play. By the way if we get Hartwell it will force Bell outside because Hartwell has made it clear during free agency that he only wants to go somewhere where he can play MLB or be the contol ILB in a 3-4. He wants to show he has the same level of ability as Ray Lewis.

Douche Baggins
03-09-2005, 08:52 PM
Bell weighs 257 and is none too bright. He has all those sacks because in a blitz situation he is great at find the gap. From what I have seen he is not agile enough to handle pass coverage an OLB has to handle. Again JMHO based on watching him play. By the way if we get Hartwell it will force Bell outside because Hartwell has made it clear during free agency that he only wants to go somewhere where he can play MLB or be the contol ILB in a 3-4. He wants to show he has the same level of ability as Ray Lewis.

If this is true then I would rather see the Chiefs pick up Anthony Simmons or a good OLB.

jspchief
03-09-2005, 08:53 PM
I agree with you, but I think the question wasn't between 4-3 and 3-4, and more along the lines of same scheme, what do we do with 2 MLBs?

I realize that. My point is I don't think Bell is suited to play OLB in our current defensive scheme. Hartwell is better suited to play OLB of the two.

When Bell lined up outside in PIT, it was mostly in situations where he was blitzing. We can't have him Blitz every down. He won't be effective in pass coverage, and will probably be less productive in open space. He's best suited to be crashing the pocket or blowing up holes

Douche Baggins
03-09-2005, 08:54 PM
When Bell lined up outside in PIT, it was mostly in situations where he was blitzing. We can't have him Blitz every down.

As they said about Derrick Thomas...why would you want your best pass rusher running away from the QB when he drops back? :hmmm:

jspchief
03-09-2005, 08:55 PM
Bell weighs 257 and is none too bright. He has all those sacks because in a blitz situation he is great at find the gap. From what I have seen he is not agile enough to handle pass coverage an OLB has to handle. Again JMHO based on watching him play. By the way if we get Hartwell it will force Bell outside because Hartwell has made it clear during free agency that he only wants to go somewhere where he can play MLB or be the contol ILB in a 3-4. He wants to show he has the same level of ability as Ray Lewis.

I agree completely with the first part of your post.

As far as where Hartwell wants to play... if we get him, I don't give two sh*ts where wants to play. He'll play wherever we need him most. I do think his desire to stay in the middle will keep him from coming here.

unlurking
03-09-2005, 08:56 PM
I realize that. My point is I don't think Bell is suited to play OLB in our current defensive scheme. Hartwell is better suited to play OLB of the two.

When Bell lined up outside in PIT, it was mostly in situations where he was blitzing. We can't have him Blitz every down. He won't be effective in pass coverage, and will probably be less productive in open space. He's best suited to be crashing the pocket or blowing up holes
Ahh

Missed your point about Hartwell playing OLB. I'm not sure if he's willing to do that. I guess that makes the 3-4 more of valid point then, because I don't think Hartwell would be worth the jack as an OLB on every down.

If we don't go 3-4, I'd rather not grab Hartwell now that we have Bell.

booger
03-09-2005, 08:57 PM
I posted this in a Hartwell thread yesterday and I'll say it again.

IMO Where to put Bell would be the most difficult to decide.

I think like alot of you do that Hartwell is a MLB.
If we retain Fujita he stays at SLB.
That leaves Bell on the weakside.

We would have a LB trio that would compare to Buffalo with

SLB Jeff Posey 6-4 241
MLB London Fletcher 5-10 245
WLB Takeo Spikes 6-2 242

Or if we loose Fuj have Bell play over the TE and let Beisel and Fox fight it out at WLB or try to sign a guy like Tommy Polley.

All assuming we get Hartwell.

jspchief
03-09-2005, 08:57 PM
As they said about Derrick Thomas...why would you want your best pass rusher running away from the QB when he drops back? :hmmm:

Offenses have changed a lot since DT played. He was even starting to get neutralized at the end of his career. The days of a QB killer OLBs in a 4-3 are over. West coast style offense have exposed it too much.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-09-2005, 08:58 PM
Are we still in the running for him or something?

Dayze
03-09-2005, 09:01 PM
if we are still in the running, someone needs to let me know so I can bring a spare set of underwear to work with me.

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 09:05 PM
Are we still in the running for him or something?

WPI and Scout.com, not exactly the most reliable publications, are both reporting that we have told Hartwell that our offer stands, but we won't negotiate anymore and that he has to answer soon.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-09-2005, 09:09 PM
WPI and Scout.com, not exactly the most reliable publications, are both reporting that we have told Hartwell that our offer stands, but we won't negotiate anymore and that he has to answer soon.

Link, please, kind sir?

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 09:12 PM
Link, please, kind sir?

This is from the other thread. You have to pay to have access. I don't.

http://mb4.scout.com/fchiefsinsider...icID=2347.topic

A source told Scout.com and Warpaint Illustrated ten minutes ago that the Chiefs have a standing offer on the table for Ed Hartwell and that he has to accept it soon or the Chiefs are going to move on and I can't blame them. He needs to decide very quickly or the offer could be pulled.

He can choose to play for the Chiefs or take his services to either the Bengals, Cardinals or Dolphins. Nobody else is interested and in my opinion he won't get that $10-12 million SB he wants. Now he might get the guaranted money but not all of it up front.

If he wants to play in KC, he'll get a good contract and a chance to play for a winner. The ball is in his court. If not, he might just end up back in Baltimore for even less money.

I'll have more details later this evening. But the bottom line is that Hartwell needs to get off his tail and sign with the Chiefs...

Chiefs Pantalones
03-09-2005, 09:22 PM
This is from the other thread. You have to pay to have access. I don't.

http://mb4.scout.com/fchiefsinsider...icID=2347.topic

A source told Scout.com and Warpaint Illustrated ten minutes ago that the Chiefs have a standing offer on the table for Ed Hartwell and that he has to accept it soon or the Chiefs are going to move on and I can't blame them. He needs to decide very quickly or the offer could be pulled.

He can choose to play for the Chiefs or take his services to either the Bengals, Cardinals or Dolphins. Nobody else is interested and in my opinion he won't get that $10-12 million SB he wants. Now he might get the guaranted money but not all of it up front.

If he wants to play in KC, he'll get a good contract and a chance to play for a winner. The ball is in his court. If not, he might just end up back in Baltimore for even less money.

I'll have more details later this evening. But the bottom line is that Hartwell needs to get off his tail and sign with the Chiefs...

Thanks. Hopefully he signs.

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 09:29 PM
Thanks. Hopefully he signs.

Hopefully Scout.com and WPI aren't just talking out of their asses :banghead:

TRR
03-09-2005, 09:49 PM
Without a doubt, Bell could play OLB. He played all over in Pitt's scheme. Even playing rush end. Simply put, posters that say Bell couldn't play OLB, really haven't watched him play. I've been watching him play since his College days. Bell can definitely play OLB. He can play all 3 LB positions.

BTW, I'm not sure why someone said Bell isn't bright. Pitt's D scheme is very complicated, and he picked it up very well (D rook of the year).

alanm
03-09-2005, 09:54 PM
Phobia says we'll all wake up in the morning and have a wonderful (Hartwell) Christmas present under the tree.

If that comes true, who is better suited to play MLB and who should play OLB? Why?

I'm no expert at all, but I get the impression that Hartwell will be better suited to play OLB.First of all there ain't no Santa at 1 Arrowhead Dr. If there was we would have been back to the SB a couple of times at least since 1970. Phil's lying his ass off. :shake: And if we by some miracle do manage to sign Hartwell I wouldn't expect there to be any money left over to entice Law to come play for us.:banghead:

Mr. Laz
03-09-2005, 09:55 PM
If the chiefs are really serious about going to the super bowl they should sign Hartwell too AND the then keep Fujita.

why?

because if you want to win a super bowl you need to be great at one spot on either side of the ball. On the offensive side we are great at offensive line. On defense we aren't great anywhere.

i'm a HUGE cornerback homer... but that's not gonna work out, there's only 1 really good cornerback available. So lets just field and outstanding linebacker corps.

sign hartwell ... start hartwell,Bell,fujita .. hartwell has the speed to play outside. We also have the flexibility to stick beisel or mitchell out there and play a 3-4. It also gives us coverage in case bell has an injury again.


sign hartwell, draft a cornerback in round 1 AND 2

1st - carlos rogers
2nd - eric green

we'll be really young in the secondary, but our run defense should be outstanding.

put bartee,battle at free safety along with the rest of the million safeties and may the best man win.


but at least we will have SOMETHING to hang our hat on for the defense.

Dick Bull
03-09-2005, 09:56 PM
First of all there ain't no Santa at 1 Arrowhead Dr. If there was we would have been back to the SB a couple of times at least since 1970. Phil's lying his ass off. :shake: And if we by some miracle do manage to sign Hartwell I wouldn't expect there to be any money left over to entice Law to come play for us.:banghead:

I think there's still money to go around, the real question is did Lamar leave the lock off the checkbook this season?

jspchief
03-09-2005, 10:24 PM
Without a doubt, Bell could play OLB. He played all over in Pitt's scheme. Even playing rush end. Simply put, posters that say Bell couldn't play OLB, really haven't watched him play. I've been watching him play since his College days. Bell can definitely play OLB. He can play all 3 LB positions.

BTW, I'm not sure why someone said Bell isn't bright. Pitt's D scheme is very complicated, and he picked it up very well (D rook of the year).

I have to disagree. Just because he lines up at OLB when PIT cherry picks the situation, that doesn't mean he's suited to play OLB every down in a 3-4 scheme. Yes, he can line up all over the field, butthat doesn't mean he'd be great full time at any position.

milkman
03-09-2005, 10:38 PM
I think Bell is the more versitile and athletic, so he'd be the OLB, while Hartwell is the stronger and more durable, making him better suited for MLB.

That's my perception, and I'm willing to admit, in this case, I could be wrong.

TRR
03-09-2005, 11:25 PM
I have to disagree. Just because he lines up at OLB when PIT cherry picks the situation, that doesn't mean he's suited to play OLB every down in a 3-4 scheme. Yes, he can line up all over the field, butthat doesn't mean he'd be great full time at any position.

How many times have you watched Bell play in his NFL career? There is 3 teams I follow in the NFL, my Chiefs, the Eagles (my brothers team) and the Steelers (my cousins team). I know quite a lot about all 3. Bell has the goods to play an OLB position. I would go as far as saying that in Gun's scheme (he loves to blitz his OLB's) Bell may fit better on the outside.

Either way, I think we signed one of the best LB's in the NFL when healthy.

htismaqe
03-10-2005, 05:27 AM
If it comes down to an either/or situation, Bell is better suited to play outside than Hartwell. That being said, Bell is not an OLB. He's not very good in pass coverage.

And yes, I HAVE seen him play. Several times.