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Phobia
03-09-2005, 08:23 PM
2 days ago, I called BS when Carl said they were turning their attention away from Linebackers.

Based upon information available to everybody who follows football and the fact that he's received no other offers from his other visits....

it is my opinion that Hartwell will be introduced as a Chief tomorrow morning.

You should be advised that I'm probably wrong. I haven't called any sources and nobody has called me to break any news. I'm just applying some deductive reasoning here.

the Talking Can
03-09-2005, 08:24 PM
well, since you haven't used your sources you're probably right...let's all welcome Hartwell to the Chiefs!

Phobia
03-09-2005, 08:25 PM
well, since you haven't used your sources you're probably right...let's all welcome Hartwell to the Chiefs!

If your source was kcnut, you wouldn't list him either.

Saulbadguy
03-09-2005, 08:25 PM
Cool.

keg in kc
03-09-2005, 08:26 PM
You've just single-handedly sabotaged the negotiations. Well done!

Actually, nothing would surprise me at this point.

Well, "nothing" is what I expect, but you know what I mean.

the Talking Can
03-09-2005, 08:26 PM
If your source was kcnut, you wouldn't list him either.

ROFL


(i hope you're kidding)

Inspector
03-09-2005, 08:26 PM
Man, it's hard to type with my fingers crossed.

HemiEd
03-09-2005, 08:26 PM
Here is hoping that you are correct! :thumb: PBJ

bringbackmarty
03-09-2005, 08:28 PM
hartwell would not only make me grow a pussy on my back, it would make said pussy wet. I guess I would have surgery to cut the thing out.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 08:29 PM
hartwell would not only make me grow a pussy on my back, it would make said pussy wet. I guess I would have surgery to cut the thing out.

If I had a pussy on my back, chiropracters would pay me.

big nasty kcnut
03-09-2005, 08:30 PM
If we sign hartwell then our defense would be awesome.

Woodrow Call
03-09-2005, 08:31 PM
I think I found his source. ROFL

http://mb4.scout.com/fchiefsinsiderfrm1.showMessage?topicID=2347.topic

A source told Scout.com and Warpaint Illustrated ten minutes ago that the Chiefs have a standing offer on the table for Ed Hartwell and that he has to accept it soon or the Chiefs are going to move on and I can't blame them. He needs to decide very quickly or the offer could be pulled.

He can choose to play for the Chiefs or take his services to either the Bengals, Cardinals or Dolphins. Nobody else is interested and in my opinion he won't get that $10-12 million SB he wants. Now he might get the guaranted money but not all of it up front.

If he wants to play in KC, he'll get a good contract and a chance to play for a winner. The ball is in his court. If not, he might just end up back in Baltimore for even less money.

I'll have more details later this evening. But the bottom line is that Hartwell needs to get off his tail and sign with the Chiefs...

Nzoner
03-09-2005, 08:32 PM
You've just single-handedly sabotaged the negotiations. Well done!

Next Star headline.

Peterson Blames Chiefs Planet Moderator.....

Saulbadguy
03-09-2005, 08:33 PM
Phobia=Nick Athan

Stinger
03-09-2005, 08:35 PM
Phobia=Nick Athan


Ouch that gonna leave a mark ROFL

milkman
03-09-2005, 08:39 PM
If we sign hartwell then our defense would be awesome.

I think that Hartwell would be the 2nd piece, but there are still more pieces to add before KC defense and awesome could be used in the same sentence.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 08:40 PM
I think I found his source. ROFL

http://mb4.scout.com/fchiefsinsiderfrm1.showMessage?topicID=2347.topic

A source told Scout.com and Warpaint Illustrated ten minutes ago that the Chiefs have a standing offer on the table for Ed Hartwell and that he has to accept it soon or the Chiefs are going to move on and I can't blame them. He needs to decide very quickly or the offer could be pulled.

He can choose to play for the Chiefs or take his services to either the Bengals, Cardinals or Dolphins. Nobody else is interested and in my opinion he won't get that $10-12 million SB he wants. Now he might get the guaranted money but not all of it up front.

If he wants to play in KC, he'll get a good contract and a chance to play for a winner. The ball is in his court. If not, he might just end up back in Baltimore for even less money.

I'll have more details later this evening. But the bottom line is that Hartwell needs to get off his tail and sign with the Chiefs...


I got nothing against those guys, but they're all over the place. Less than 24 hours ago, they said the Chiefs were out of the Hartwell race. I wouldn't consider them any kind of source.

Even if you have sources, you have to know how to read the info they're leaking. I've been "leaked" tons of shit I'm not going to pass on to you. For instance, I've been "leaked" info on who Rufus Dawes is, but I think I was being played as a pawn in that situation. I'm not gonna be anybody's bitch. But, if I hear what I consider to be good information, I'll pass it on.

All that having been said, there is no source for my latest guess. I'm adding up all the facts available to me and everybody else and I'm saying Hartwell is a Chief. Take that any way you wish.

Big Chief Homer
03-09-2005, 08:41 PM
I think we should run with this and post it at the star BB.

See how they like the BS for a change.

keg in kc
03-09-2005, 08:42 PM
I'm not gonna be anybody's bitch.I was gonna make some smartass remark about that, but I got nothin'. I must be slipping.

the Talking Can
03-09-2005, 08:43 PM
can we post a "Hartwell Signs!!!" thread just to see how fast it shows up on the other Chiefs sites?

Phobia
03-09-2005, 08:44 PM
Please don't. I hate false shit. Post all the guesses you wanna, but clearly label them as I've done with this thread.

KCWolfman
03-09-2005, 08:44 PM
You've just single-handedly sabotaged the negotiations. Well done!

Actually, nothing would surprise me at this point.

Well, "nothing" is what I expect, but you know what I mean.
And even if he didn't, Carl will tell the press tomorrow he did.

keg in kc
03-09-2005, 08:45 PM
And even if he didn't, Carl will tell the press tomorrow he did.Yeah, the stories been "leaked" now. We're screwed.

htismaqe
03-09-2005, 08:55 PM
Phobia is a homer.

He's bought into Carl's BS hook, line, and sinker.

nychief
03-09-2005, 08:57 PM
So you think the whole Star article about withdrawing from the Hartwell negotiations was B.S.? Gee, I hope

htismaqe
03-09-2005, 09:00 PM
So you think the whole Star article about withdrawing from the Hartwell negotiations was B.S.? Gee, I hope

Let's explain this one more time. :D

The Chiefs have withdrawn from NEGOTIATIONS. They haven't withdrawn their OFFER.

That means we have a standing offer on the table and we're telling him to sign it or go elsewhere. We're done negotiating, but that doesn't mean we won't do it if he comes back and wants to sign...

jspchief
03-09-2005, 09:01 PM
If you're right, I hope Hartwell can play the outside...

Personally, I think we have more pressing needs and signing Hartwell would hamper our ability to address those needs with quality players.

Woodrow Call
03-09-2005, 09:01 PM
So you think the whole Star article about withdrawing from the Hartwell negotiations was B.S.? Gee, I hope

I would be very happy if they got Hartwell. I would settle for a Hartwell,Bell,Herndon and maybe Knight offseason.. :)

KCWolfman
03-09-2005, 09:03 PM
So you think the whole Star article about withdrawing from the Hartwell negotiations was B.S.? Gee, I hope
It was only a single quote from Carl, not an entire article.

And it didn't state he withdrew his offer, merely that he would not pursue FURTHER negotiations.

wutamess
03-09-2005, 09:05 PM
:rolleyes:

You have the psychic ability of Ms. Cleo & Dionne Warrick combined.

~ Not holding my breath.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:06 PM
So you think the whole Star article about withdrawing from the Hartwell negotiations was B.S.? Gee, I hope

I think that most of what Carl/Thum release to the media this time of year is carefully calculated to manipulate players, their agents, and other teams.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:07 PM
Man if we could get Hartwell our LB crew would be POPPIN'!

ZootedGranny
03-09-2005, 09:08 PM
It makes sense. In Arizona, they thought his SB was too large, and they recently signed Ike Reese. The Dolphins supposedly didn't even offer him a deal. Nothing has come from Seattle and Cinci yet.

Carl Peterson standing firm and having a free agent actually give up and sign the contract will be just like Greg Robinson calling yet another zone blitz and having Sims pick off Bledsoe's goal line pass from two years ago.

You keep hoping Robinson will stop the damn zone, but once it finally works, you realize now he's gonna use it even more. If Hartwell signs the contract on the table, Carl Peterson is going to get a tattoo across his back that says "TOUGH S.O.B." and he'll offer a crate of Hamburger Helper, Chris Horn and a 7th rounder for Surtain straight up, and expect them to take it.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:08 PM
phobia is rufus dawes.


That is all I came up with on this thread.


Of course I predicted that Hartwell would have to come to the chiefs because they have the best offer on teh table and other teams lack interest earlier today.

milkman
03-09-2005, 09:08 PM
If you're right, I hope Hartwell can play the outside...

Personally, I think we have more pressing needs and signing Hartwell would hamper our ability to address those needs with quality players.

Hartwell in the middle, Bell on the outside.

tommykat
03-09-2005, 09:08 PM
2 days ago, I called BS when Carl said they were turning their attention away from Linebackers.

Based upon information available to everybody who follows football and the fact that he's received no other offers from his other visits....

it is my opinion that Hartwell will be introduced as a Chief tomorrow morning.

You should be advised that I'm probably wrong. I haven't called any sources and nobody has called me to break any news. I'm just applying some deductive reasoning here.

:hmmm: So you are the brains and not the brawn? ;)

booger
03-09-2005, 09:09 PM
I'd say you may very well be right on this guess. I hope so anyway.

This year in FA is loaded with talent at LB. Problem is that the 4 of the top guys are MLB types. Trotter took less to go back to Philly. Pierce took a solid deal for a guy who was undrafted and worked his way up the ladder and into a starting role. While so have said Bell may have the most talent out of the whole group, he still had the injury issues to deal with.

The night FA started, John Clayton said that Hartwell might get the best deal out of any FA regardless of position. Then the fact that supposidly half the teams in the league wanted him to visit on the eve of FA, things were looking pretty bright for him.

As far as I know, he has only visited us and the cards. Apparetly the falcons and seattle are looking to bring him for a visit and rumors of Miami or cincinati having interest seem to be just that, rumors.

The number 1 problem with any of these 4 guys was or still is, is the fact that they may not deserve the kind of SB they want while they all 4 have the "better against the run, but maybe not a 3 down 'backer" label.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:09 PM
Hartwell in the middle, Bell on the outside.

Yup, perfect situation for us. Less risk of injury for Bell on the outside, too.

Man imagine Bell blitzing from the same side Jared Allen is pass rushing from. POPPIN!'

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:10 PM
phobia is rufus dawes.


That is all I came up with on this thread.


Of course I predicted that Hartwell would have to come to the chiefs because they have the best offer on teh table and other teams lack interest earlier today.

I actually am posting this thread based upon information gathered from your posts today, but I'm assembling my hype team to take it to a new level.

Watch and learn. Soon my offseason posts will be PPV.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:10 PM
:hmmm: So you are the brains and not the brawn? ;)

Phobia's the total package. He's POPPIN!'

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:11 PM
I actually am posting this thread based upon information gathered from your posts today, but I'm assembling my hype team to take it to a new level.

Watch and learn. Soon my offseason posts will be PPV.
ROFL

Im flattered. I will want free access to these PPV posts. Don't forsake the people who got you there.
ROFL

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:12 PM
It makes sense. In Arizona, they thought his SB was too large, and they recently signed Ike Reese. The Dolphins supposedly didn't even offer him a deal. Nothing has come from Seattle and Cinci yet.

Precisely. Hartwell has nearly played out the first wave of signings. He doesn't want to be forced into a situation of desperation in June. They want to net first wave money while they still have some leverage.

Big Chief Homer
03-09-2005, 09:13 PM
what would be our core LB crew then.

Bell
hartwell
Fujita?

until barber is healthy.What happens if we lose fuj?

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:13 PM
:hmmm: So you are the brains and not the brawn? ;)

I like prawns.

Hoover
03-09-2005, 09:13 PM
If we sign him will we change to the 3-4 because we would have 2 high prices MLBs?

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:13 PM
what would be our core LB crew then.

Bell
hartwell
Fujita?

until barber is healthy.What happens if we lose fuj?
Beisel and Fox will step up or we will draft OLB.

booger
03-09-2005, 09:14 PM
It makes sense. In Arizona, they thought his SB was too large, and they recently signed Ike Reese. The Dolphins supposedly didn't even offer him a deal. Nothing has come from Seattle and Cinci yet.


Reese signed with Atlanta who was also supposedly interested in Hartwell but didn't have a visit with him.

'Zona spent some money on resigned a couple of their guys, getting a steeler OL, and Chike Okeafor. They probably have the cash and do have the cap room, but Bidwell won't go for it.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:14 PM
What happens if we lose fuj?

We accept the 5th round compensation happily. I dunno. Do you think any players associated with the Chiefs defense are highly sought after on the restricted FA market?

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:15 PM
We accept the 5th round compensation happily. I dunno. Do you think any players associated with the Chiefs defense are highly sought after on the restricted FA market?
evidently the Pats are interested in him. :shrug:

nychief
03-09-2005, 09:16 PM
evidently the Pats are interested in him. :shrug:


where did you hear that?

ZootedGranny
03-09-2005, 09:17 PM
Reese signed with Atlanta who was also supposedly interested in Hartwell but didn't have a visit with him.

My fault. DAMN THESE NARCOTICS

Woodrow Call
03-09-2005, 09:17 PM
where did you hear that?

I heard that to. I am trying find where.

Hoover
03-09-2005, 09:17 PM
So maybe we do go with a 3-4 D

Browning, Sims, Allen
Fujita, Bell, Hartwell, Barber when healthy

Big Chief Homer
03-09-2005, 09:17 PM
We accept the 5th round compensation happily. I dunno. Do you think any players associated with the Chiefs defense are highly sought after on the restricted FA market?

ROFL ,not really,but weirder stuff has happened.

Im not really worried about losing him but he was our best Backer.

Im actually hoping we draft merriman if johnsons gone.

Plus,there goes the money i spent on my sons christmas present.

Dont ask why but fuj is his favorite player.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:17 PM
evidently the Pats are interested in him. :shrug:

The pats signed Maz to an offer sheet, too. We matched. They can negotiate our contract if they wish.

DTLB58
03-09-2005, 09:18 PM
If we sign him will we change to the 3-4 because we would have 2 high prices MLBs?

Not a bad idea. I wouldn't be totally against this.

Has Gun ever coached a 3-4? Did we play any of that back in the 90's I don't remember.

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 09:18 PM
Gawd I hope you're right!! I'll sacrifice a live chicken tonight. Two stud LB's...I'll be ecstatic.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:18 PM
1) Rolle is on the injured list more often than not? How is he classified as healthy? So to grade: Not giving an injury liability 14 mil? A+
2) Bell's injuries were actually fairly minor and were a result of overworking. He is in perfect health and those injuries don't look like they will return. So to grade: Signing Bell A+
3) Smoot went to the vikings before the Chiefs had a chance to look. Hes unproven at best and wouldnt fit our scheme. So to grade: N/A.
4) We gave Trotter the best offer, but he was using us as a bargaining chip to raise his price in philly. So to grade: N/A.
5) Smith: Who cares? N/A
6) The Hartwell case looks a lot better for us right now. No one is expressing interest except us and the Cards and the Cards dont seem to have cap space anymore. We've shown Hartwell that we dont need him, but we still have the best offer on the table. So look at it this way: We've got him where we want him. He has run out of bargaining tools and we've shown that we are not going to budge from our offer, and we are losing interest in his effort to extort money. So as far as we have dealt with him: A+ . If he signs with us, fantastic. If not? Ok. We have a MLB and can draft OLB readily. I think Hartwell will be a Chief. "We aren't pursuing him" != We have withdrawn offer. It just means we arent budging from the current offer.
A little reference for you all.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:18 PM
WE ARE NOT SWITCHING TO THE 3-4. :banghead: :rolleyes:

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:19 PM
Not a bad idea. I wouldn't be totally against this.

Has Gun ever coached a 3-4? Did we play any of that back in the 90's I don't remember.

We played a hybrid version called the Falcon while gun was here. Prior to that, we played a 3-4 in the early 90's.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:20 PM
WE ARE NOT SWITCHING TO THE 3-4. :banghead: :rolleyes:
3-4 is ok, Its just not GUN.

DTLB58
03-09-2005, 09:20 PM
ROFL ,not really,but weirder stuff has happened.

Im not really worried about losing him but he was our best Backer.

Im actually hoping we draft merriman if johnsons gone.

Now your talking :thumb: He is one of 6 guys I have on my wish list for round 1

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:20 PM
3-4 is ok, Its just not GUN.
Although it does suit Fujita, Hartwell, and Bell best....

Stinger
03-09-2005, 09:20 PM
If we sign him will we change to the 3-4 because we would have 2 high prices MLBs?

Don't see it we don't have the size up front to play a 3-4.

booger
03-09-2005, 09:21 PM
evidently the Pats are interested in him. :shrug:
They run the 34 and that might just be a perfect fit for him. He is not physical enough for a MLB in a 4-3. Even though he is athletic enough to play WLB I can't imagine him doing very well covering RB's coming out of the backfield at 6-5 250. The perfect spot for him in a 4-3 is over the TE on the strong side. He has the athletic ability and smarts, just hasn't had that nasty streak all LB's need.

Furthermore, when we drafted him we talked about him maybe seeing time as a DE as well. He fits the OLB edge type guy in a 3-4 to a T. And Bellichick if anyone could get the most out of him. Look at Mike Vrabel. He was in a 3-4 at Pittsburg and had some sucsess. At NE he starts and contributes well because he knows his role and doesn't get asked to do things he can not do well.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:21 PM
3-4 doesn't suit our D-line. And I'd rather not have Mitchell OR Beisel on the field, which is what it would take to run a 3-4.

NO.

booger
03-09-2005, 09:22 PM
My fault. DAMN THESE NARCOTICS
no prob.

:thumb:

This crap is hard to keep track of. I have just been glued to the computer in my spare time since FA started and have no life. :)

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:22 PM
3-4 doesn't suit our D-line. And I'd rather not have Mitchell OR Beisel on the field, which is what it would take to run a 3-4.

NO.
Ok... So we trade up and draft DJ and trade up in the 2nd and draft a DE. Simple enough. Then we are set for a 3-4

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:23 PM
Ok... So we trade up and draft DJ and trade up in the 2nd and draft a DE. Simple enough. Then we are set for a 3-4

If we draft DJ, Scott Fujita can get the hell out of dodge and then we'll have a REAL linebacking corps for a 4-3.

Wile_E_Coyote
03-09-2005, 09:26 PM
there must have been a purple limo at KCI tonight

milkman
03-09-2005, 09:26 PM
We won't go to a 3-4.
Bell will play OLB.

I think they left the door open for Hartwell as MLB when Bell signed and we were told he would compete for a spot either at MLB or OLB.

Of course, they could have been saying that he has to compete with the LBs we already have on the roster.

We all know they are just the best ever!

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:26 PM
If we draft DJ, Scott Fujita can get the hell out of dodge and then we'll have a REAL linebacking corps for a 4-3.
Or we could set up the 3-4... :shrug: Lionel Dalton would be perfect in a 3-4. Allen is certainly athletic enough. :shrug:

unlurking
03-09-2005, 09:28 PM
Don't see it we don't have the size up front to play a 3-4.
We would if Siavii decided to reach his "potential".

Sims/Browning
Siavii/Dalton
Allen/???

Barber
Bell
Hartwell
Fuj

I could think of worse lineups than that.

Stinger
03-09-2005, 09:29 PM
Going to a 3-4 would be an entirely new system for almost all of the defense. They barley learned the sytem under Gunther last year and now you want to change it again. I just don't see it.

Logical
03-09-2005, 09:29 PM
We accept the 5th round compensation happily. I dunno. Do you think any players associated with the Chiefs defense are highly sought after on the restricted FA market?

I thought I read that Fujita had signed an offer sheet from NE today, has that proved untrue?

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:29 PM
I think we should stop discussing a 3-4. That's not gonna happen. You play a 3-4 when you have a dominant, pocket collapsing nose tackle. Who is that?

We'd be hard pressed to get 4 LBers on the field, much less have any kind of depth. You can stop talking aobut 3-4.

NaptownChief
03-09-2005, 09:29 PM
2 days ago, I called BS when Carl said they were turning their attention away from Linebackers.

Based upon information available to everybody who follows football and the fact that he's received no other offers from his other visits....

it is my opinion that Hartwell will be introduced as a Chief tomorrow morning.




I have no clue if it will happen as soon as tomorrow or not but my feeling very similar...Peterson saying they are moving on is his way of trying to give himself the upper hand when they come back and say that they are still interested in coming to KC...Nothing more than an attempt to drive down the asking price a bit...Not a horrible strategy...especially from someone with the limited abilities of Peterson.

Mile High Mania
03-09-2005, 09:29 PM
Don't break your arm there Phobia...

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:30 PM
I thought I read that Fujita had signed an offer sheet from NE today, has that proved untrue?

I haven't read that. I'll go check PatriotsPlanet - see if they have any info.

ENDelt260
03-09-2005, 09:32 PM
I got nothing against those guys, but they're all over the place.

I really should've saved that quote I had in my sig.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:32 PM
We would if Siavii decided to reach his "potential".

Sims/Browning
Siavii/Dalton
Allen/???

Barber
Bell
Hartwell
Fuj

I could think of worse lineups than that.
You want Sims and Browning to become DEs? Erm. 3-4 Calls for "lighter, better containment DEs" like Pollack. Barber wont be back for at least half the season too, take that into acct. But, if we played the draft right, there is no reason a 3-4 couldnt pan out. *still fails to understand gochiefs strange aversion to the 3-4*

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:33 PM
I think we should stop discussing a 3-4. That's not gonna happen. You play a 3-4 when you have a dominant, pocket collapsing nose tackle. Who is that?

We'd be hard pressed to get 4 LBers on the field, much less have any kind of depth. You can stop talking aobut 3-4.
Dalton is one of the fastest Dlinemen off the snap. 6-2 315, hes more than big enough. He played in Baltimore where they ran a 3-4. He knows what to do.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:34 PM
I think we should stop discussing a 3-4. That's not gonna happen. You play a 3-4 when you have a dominant, pocket collapsing nose tackle. Who is that?

We'd be hard pressed to get 4 LBers on the field, much less have any kind of depth. You can stop talking aobut 3-4.

Credibility!

Logical
03-09-2005, 09:34 PM
Ok... So we trade up and draft DJ and trade up in the 2nd and draft a DE. Simple enough. Then we are set for a 3-4ROFL This post had to be meant as a joke, no one can be that dumb.

Fat Elvis
03-09-2005, 09:35 PM
Dalton is one of the fastest Dlinemen off the snap. 6-2 315, hes more than big enough. He played in Baltimore where they ran a 3-4. He knows what to do.

The Ravens were running a 4-3 when Dalton was there....

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:35 PM
You want Sims and Browning to become DEs? Erm. 3-4 Calls for "lighter, better containment DEs" like Pollack. Barber wont be back for at least half the season too, take that into acct. But, if we played the draft right, there is no reason a 3-4 couldnt pan out. *still fails to understand gochiefs strange aversion to the 3-4*

What? 3-4 calls for BIGGER defensive ends.

We do NOT have the personnel to run a 3-4.

Right now we have maybe two good linebackers on the team. Forget a 3-4.

tk13
03-09-2005, 09:36 PM
I don't see us switching to a 3-4.... now if we can add a decent corner that can play man, I could see Gun using a 4-4 package occasionally. I'm guessing we'll probably draft at least one OLB...

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:36 PM
Fine, Ill let it go.

milkman
03-09-2005, 09:36 PM
You want Sims and Browning to become DEs? Erm. 3-4 Calls for "lighter, better containment DEs" like Pollack. Barber wont be back for at least half the season too, take that into acct. But, if we played the draft right, there is no reason a 3-4 couldnt pan out. *still fails to understand gochiefs strange aversion to the 3-4*

Richard Seymour was a DT in college, and he's fit in quite nicely as a DE in NE.

3-4 isn't an option in KC, IMO.
Just thought i'd point that out though.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:37 PM
I really should've saved that quote I had in my sig.

The one predicting Bell would sign when nobody was even talking about Bell?

the Talking Can
03-09-2005, 09:37 PM
Sims in a 3-4?.....good lord....

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:37 PM
I don't see us switching to a 3-4.... now if we can add a decent corner that can play man, I could see Gun using a 4-4 package occasionally. I'm guessing we'll probably draft at least one OLB...
You think wed use a 44? I havent seen that in a while.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:39 PM
I thought I read that Fujita had signed an offer sheet from NE today, has that proved untrue?

I think you're talking about this: http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9982&highlight=fujita

But I think it's just poorly worded.

tk13
03-09-2005, 09:39 PM
You think wed use a 44? I havent seen that in a while.
Eh, maybe, maybe not. It's an idea, and Gunther likes to bring a safety up in run support all the time, I could see him trotting it out there on the odd occasion.

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 09:40 PM
What? 3-4 calls for BIGGER defensive ends.

We do NOT have the personnel to run a 3-4.

Right now we have maybe two good linebackers on the team. Forget a 3-4.

My thoughts exactly. We go from the absolute worst LB corp in football to MAYBE two good ones and everyone wants the 3-4.

jspchief
03-09-2005, 09:40 PM
Hartwell in the middle, Bell on the outside.

There's a difference between lining up outside occasionally in a 3-4, and play OLB in a 4-3. Bell is not suited to play OLB every down in a 4-3.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 09:40 PM
Eh, maybe, maybe not. It's an idea, and Gunther likes to bring a safety up in run support all the time, I could see him trotting it out there on the odd occasion.
It would confuse the hell out of the offense, thats for sure.

ENDelt260
03-09-2005, 09:41 PM
The one predicting Bell would sign when nobody was even talking about Bell?
I don't remember what the hell it said (hence me wishing I'd saved it).... but, I think part of it contradicted this prediction.

CosmicPal
03-09-2005, 09:42 PM
I think we should stop discussing a 3-4. That's not gonna happen.

If KC gets Hartwell, it's not all that long of a shot. Bell played the Moe position in the 3-4 and Hartwell played the Mike position for the linebackers.

The Moe linebacker is usually your rushing linebacker, and your Mike linebacker is usually your run-stuffing- drop into coverage linebacker. If KC picked up Hartwell, they will be smart to consider it. Come draft time, they can get a rushing DE to compliment Allen and use Sims and Siavii in the middle. Both are very big men- but they need to play better to command the double-teams- without a nose-tackle commanding a double-team, the 3-4 doesn't work well. But, with two outstanding linebackers in the middle and two DE's providing a relentless rush- they could pull it off.

unlurking
03-09-2005, 09:42 PM
What? 3-4 calls for BIGGER defensive ends.

We do NOT have the personnel to run a 3-4.

Right now we have maybe two good linebackers on the team. Forget a 3-4.
3-4 does call for bigger ends, and I think Browning would probably make a great weak side end in a 3-4.

Anyways, if we signed Hartwell to go with Bell, keep Fuj (pats?), and Barber is healthy (still don't know what the deal is here, PUP or no?), then I disagree that we don't have the LB corp to play a 3-4.

I don't think we will (and wasn't to impressed with the Falcon), but I still think its a viable option for "switch up" plays which Gun really likes.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:43 PM
I don't remember what the hell it said (hence me wishing I'd saved it).... but, I think part of it contradicted this prediction.

Isn't that convenient for you (and possibly me :D)?

In any case, I've been correct far more this year than Peter King has been in his entire career and I'm more poorly compensated.

booger
03-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Dalton is one of the fastest Dlinemen off the snap. 6-2 315, hes more than big enough. He played in Baltimore where they ran a 3-4. He knows what to do.
Dalton was in a DT rotation with Siragusa and sam Adams the year they won the SB when they ran a 4-3.

He might be a good fit at NT in a 34. But at DL only him and browning would fit that defense.

You need a stout NT to start. the rest of the front seven is a bunch of Tweeners that don't fit a 4-3. Ends that are combo end-tackle guys. OLB that are combo DE OLB's the inside guys have to be big, physical guys who can run downhill and tangle with the interior linemen.

Allen would have to bulk up to 300 lbs or close to it to play DE in that scheme. If we even tried it would look something like this.

LE Browning
NT Dalton
RE ? Allen by default no one else fits here
LOLB Fujita
LILB Hartwell (assuming he signs) Mitchell Bell
RILB Bell
ROLB Stills Beisel Caver

Doesn't look to good to me considering the linemen we have and have bigger contracts wouldn't fit.

I really agree with whoever said the point of learning a new scheme again and the fact that gun only has the history of the Falcon 4-3 3-4 hybrid scheme, not your typical 3-4 set.

JMO

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 09:43 PM
The one predicting Bell would sign when nobody was even talking about Bell?

I remember your Hartwell/Bell prediction :thumb:

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:45 PM
3-4 does call for bigger ends, and I think Browning would probably make a great weak side end in a 3-4.

Anyways, if we signed Hartwell to go with Bell, keep Fuj (pats?), and Barber is healthy (still don't know what the deal is here, PUP or no?), then I disagree that we don't have the LB corp to play a 3-4.

I don't think we will (and wasn't to impressed with the Falcon), but I still think its a viable option for "switch up" plays which Gun really likes.

You have a point. We have 2 more OLB than anybody has mentioned if we were to switch to a 3-4.... Allen and Stills.

HemiEd
03-09-2005, 09:45 PM
I think you're talking about this: http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9982&highlight=fujita

But I think it's just poorly worded.


Some pretty entertaining stuff!

Phobia
03-09-2005, 09:46 PM
I remember your Hartwell/Bell prediction :thumb:

Hopefully you remember it in my favor. :D

beer bacon
03-09-2005, 09:47 PM
I don't think we are going to switch to 3-4, but if we did we would get a lot more use out of Stills. He would make a decent rush LB in a 3-4.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2005, 09:48 PM
I don't mind occasionally seeing KC in the 3-4. Hell, they did that last year a few times, although it may have just been 3 down lineman and a bunch of DBs.

unlurking
03-09-2005, 09:48 PM
OK, since we seem to be stuck on the 3-4 concept, what is the deal with Barber? I still think he is a good LB, but I keep hearing contradictions as to when he will be back (if ever).

booger
03-09-2005, 09:48 PM
You think wed use a 44? I havent seen that in a while.
We actually ran it quite a bit last season when Barber was still healthy. They brought in Beisel as an extra ILB and took out woods or wesley. That was when we had a bunch of trouble stopping the run. Which was most of the season, but we got better. :)

Gravedigger
03-09-2005, 09:49 PM
yeah now that you called it it is very possible that you jinxed it I would love it if hartwell signs with us then wed have an effective linebacking core and we could focus on a cornerback such as Law or Surtain and when we lock up one of them our defense will be better by 100 fold. I like players who are hitters and hartwell likes to tap his opponents to let them know hes there. :thumb:

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 09:50 PM
Hopefully you remember it in my favor. :D

If Hartwell signs, the olny thing you missed was the timing of the deal.

crossbow
03-09-2005, 09:58 PM
can we post a "Hartwell Signs!!!" thread just to see how fast it shows up on the other Chiefs sites?

Post it on the Star BBS and see how long it takes to get posted here.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 10:01 PM
If Hartwell signs, the olny thing you missed was the timing of the deal.

To be honest, I predicted Trotter would go back to Philly, we would get Bell, we would get Rolle, and we would NOT get Hartwell.

ENDelt260
03-09-2005, 10:01 PM
If Hartwell signs, the olny thing you missed was the timing of the deal.
Bzzt.

If Hartwell signs, the only thing he would've gotten right was the Bell prediction.

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 10:04 PM
Bzzt.

If Hartwell signs, the only thing he would've gotten right was the Bell prediction.

There is another post somewhere where he said Hartwell and Bell will be announced tomorrow.

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 10:05 PM
To be honest, I predicted Trotter would go back to Philly, we would get Bell, we would get Rolle, and we would NOT get Hartwell.

Maybe it was Rolle and Bell. I thought it was Hartwell.

ENDelt260
03-09-2005, 10:05 PM
There is another post somewhere where he said Hartwell and Bell will be announced tomorrow.
Haha... How many f*cking predictions has Taco Jr made?

Phobia
03-09-2005, 10:07 PM
There is another post somewhere where he said Hartwell and Bell will be announced tomorrow.

Unfortunately, there's not. I predicted Rolle and Bell would be signed tomorrow.

You may be thinking of Parker - he predicted Rolle and Hartwell, IIRC.

At this juncture, I'm taking credit for the following:
Correctly predicting Bell, Trotter, Smith.

I missed on Rolle - thanks Carl.

I've waffled on Hartwell. So, I'm gonna be right there, too. :D

Any way you slice that, I'm ahead of Peter King. Where's my paycheck.

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 10:07 PM
Haha... How many f*cking predictions has Taco Jr made?


http://home.earthlink.net/~eglweb/cpstuff/TJsig.jpg

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 10:09 PM
http://home.earthlink.net/~eglweb/cpstuff/TJsig.jpg
I so love seeing this over and over again.... lol

Logical
03-09-2005, 10:10 PM
OK, since we seem to be stuck on the 3-4 concept, what is the deal with Barber? I still think he is a good LB, but I keep hearing contradictions as to when he will be back (if ever).The only thing I have actually read was an article posted here from the Star that quote Vermiel as saying he would likely start the season on the PUP.

Brando
03-09-2005, 10:12 PM
The only thing I have actually read was an article posted here from the Star that quote Vermiel as saying he would likely start the season on the PUP.

He was on the news about a month back at some shcool donating books. He said that he wanted to be ready for the season.

Dayze
03-09-2005, 10:13 PM
Man, it's hard to type with my fingers crossed.

equally as hard to type while 'sporting'.

OldTownChief
03-09-2005, 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, there's not. I predicted Rolle and Bell would be signed tomorrow.

You may be thinking of Parker - he predicted Rolle and Hartwell, IIRC.

At this juncture, I'm taking credit for the following:
Correctly predicting Bell, Trotter, Smith.

I missed on Rolle - thanks Carl.

I've waffled on Hartwell. So, I'm gonna be right there, too. :D

Any way you slice that, I'm ahead of Peter King. Where's my paycheck.

Shut Up!!! I'm trying to help you out of this mess. Now you're just FUBAR.

Iowanian
03-09-2005, 10:24 PM
I couldn't see the Chiefs switching to a 3-4 but I do like the idea that if they wanted to change things up once in a while......they'd have the LBs to be SOLID in a base 3-4.

I keep seeing Beisel mentioned.........He's a FA and not a Chief right now, technically....and said he wanted to be a starter somewhere.

I'd be tickled til I pee'd a little if this were true.

There are more DE and CBs in the first 2-3 rounds of this draft than for a long, long time........and alot of top draft position teams needing QB and RBs and WRs

Mr. Kotter
03-09-2005, 10:35 PM
Phil, you is da man. I've been saying similar stuff. I'm on the "Hartwell bandwagon to Westport, baby." :thumb:

Phobia
03-09-2005, 10:39 PM
Phil, you is da man. I've been saying similar stuff. I'm on the "Hartwell bandwagon to Westport, baby." :thumb:

Okay, if I'm right - great. But if you're wrong, there's gonna be hell to pay.

keg in kc
03-09-2005, 10:40 PM
Shit, Phil, you're a moderator. If you're wrong, just make the thread mysteriously vanish and feign innocence and ignorance.

J Diddy
03-09-2005, 10:41 PM
I think there is a good shot they are still after hartwell, the only reason they are dragging their feet is due to corner situation, which I would assume they feel is the next pressing issue.

Brando
03-09-2005, 10:42 PM
equally as hard to type while 'sporting'.
Typing while sporting with the lil miss in the next room. I feel like Maguyver when I pull that shit off.

Brando
03-09-2005, 10:43 PM
Shit, Phil, you're a moderator. If you're wrong, just make the thread mysteriously vanish and feign innocence and ignorance.
I don't think he's found that button yet.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 10:43 PM
Shit, Phil, you're a moderator. If you're wrong, just make the thread mysteriously vanish and feign innocence and ignorance.

Are you kidding? Titus has a ChiefsPlanet mirror to keep everybody in line....

keg in kc
03-09-2005, 10:44 PM
Are you kidding? Titus has a ChiefsPlanet mirror to keep everybody in line....That's...frightening.

Phobia
03-09-2005, 10:46 PM
That's...frightening.

Especially when you consider it's just one lengthy Word document....

BIG K
03-09-2005, 10:53 PM
During the 'Falcon' year, DT was injured and Pellum McDaniels (DE) filled in most of the time for him, resulting in the base 4-3.

If we were gonna go back to the "Falcon", which I don't think they can, wouldn't they use Allen in the "Falcon" spot due to his pass rush ability like they did with DT?

Phobia
03-09-2005, 11:00 PM
During the 'Falcon' year, DT was injured and Pellum McDaniels (DE) filled in most of the time for him, resulting in the base 4-3.

If we were gonna go back to the "Falcon", which I don't think they can, wouldn't they use Allen in the "Falcon" spot due to his pass rush ability like they did with DT?

Cool post. I nearly posted this as a trivia question earlier in this thread (ie: Who was DT's backup at the Falcon?) but didn't for some reason.

While I didn't think Gunther's Falcon hybrid was incredibly effective, I think Allen would have been ideal for that position. Unfortunately, we don't have the personnel to be that creative this year. That unit gelled like.... well, like a Patriots unit. Everybody knew where they were supposed to be and they covered one another's back.

Brando
03-09-2005, 11:09 PM
You're just trying to start a fight, aren't ya? Now I'm glad I stole your Christmas presents.
I didn't see anything missing, but you did leave a lump of coal errr coach in my stocking.

BIG K
03-09-2005, 11:09 PM
Cool post. I nearly posted this as a trivia question earlier in this thread (ie: Who was DT's backup at the Falcon?) but didn't for some reason.

While I didn't think Gunther's Falcon hybrid was incredibly effective, I think Allen would have been ideal for that position. Unfortunately, we don't have the personnel to be that creative this year. That unit gelled like.... well, like a Patriots unit. Everybody knew where they were supposed to be and they covered one another's back.

It could have been DT's injury that slowed the progress of that position. I remember DT saying that with that much freedom, he expected to get 20+ sacks that year. The overall unit that year was indeed impressive....Been a very long time since we could have said that about the defense. Still, Allens natural abilities intrigue.

booger
03-09-2005, 11:11 PM
Jager bomber!
I thought you liked tequila rose and bubble baths?

Phobia
03-09-2005, 11:11 PM
It could have been DT's injury that slowed the progress of that position. I remember DT saying that with that much freedom, he expected to get 20+ sacks that year. The overall unit that year was indeed impressive....Been a very long time since we could have said that about the defense. Still, Allens natural abilities intrigue.

Allen is impressive. We'll soon know how far he can go....

Nice to see you around, K-mart. :D Been a while.

How's the kiddo?

bringbackmarty
03-09-2005, 11:11 PM
Let's explain this one more time. :D

The Chiefs have withdrawn from NEGOTIATIONS. They haven't withdrawn their OFFER.

That means we have a standing offer on the table and we're telling him to sign it or go elsewhere. We're done negotiating, but that doesn't mean we won't do it if he comes back and wants to sign...

I got the gist of that yesterday @ 5:00 why don't the rest of the plannit be witit?

Phobia
03-09-2005, 11:12 PM
I thought you liked tequila rose and bubble baths?

That's Laz. Or boozer.... or donger or bonger.... or booger.... or bowser....

holy shit this place is confusing.

Nightfyre
03-09-2005, 11:13 PM
I got the gist of that yesterday @ 5:00 why don't the rest of the plannit be witit?
Its a mat... with conclusions (chiefsplanet members) jump to!

I tried to as well.

booger
03-09-2005, 11:13 PM
Cool post. I nearly posted this as a trivia question earlier in this thread (ie: Who was DT's backup at the Falcon?) but didn't for some reason.

While I didn't think Gunther's Falcon hybrid was incredibly effective, I think Allen would have been ideal for that position. Unfortunately, we don't have the personnel to be that creative this year. That unit gelled like.... well, like a Patriots unit. Everybody knew where they were supposed to be and they covered one another's back.


Anthony Davis Played outstanding that year at WLB. We havn't had anyone play it the same since, including Donnie Edwards.

Didn't hurt to have a "motivated Dan Williams" either.

Brando
03-09-2005, 11:14 PM
That's Laz. Or boozer.... or donger or bonger.... or booger.... or bowser....

holy shit this place is confusing.

The worst was when everyone one had Jake flipping the bird as their avatar.

booger
03-09-2005, 11:17 PM
That's Laz. Or boozer.... or donger or bonger.... or booger.... or bowser....

holy shit this place is confusing.


I believe it twas Gaz, maybe?

BIG K
03-09-2005, 11:22 PM
Allen is impressive. We'll soon know how far he can go....

Nice to see you around, K-mart. :D Been a while.

How's the kiddo?

Good to be here. She's doing great. Learned yesterday that she will be graduating at the top of the k-garden class!! Things have finally settled down and based out, you know what I mean. How are all the girls?

BTW: Hope you are right about Hartwell....

tk13
03-09-2005, 11:23 PM
The worst was when everyone one had Jake flipping the bird as their avatar.
Dude! That was my idea! That was brilliant! We beat the crap out of the Broncos worse than we have in years too! You should all be thanking me for my wonderful idea.

bringbackmarty
03-09-2005, 11:25 PM
I disagree bout the sensus here that we cant run the 3\4. we can run the falcon. Bell could be the falcon, so could jason taylor (trade holmes for surtain and taylor). so could mitchell, stills (once or twice a game), allen could be the rush side end on passing, Hicks on the other side. Browning in place of allen or backing up hicks mostly on 1st down and second and short. dalton sims siavi rotating inthe middle? ****in tweak it, don't play a 34 all the time improvise. be unconventional;. get the players tweak the scheme.

htismaqe
03-10-2005, 06:14 AM
It could have been DT's injury that slowed the progress of that position. I remember DT saying that with that much freedom, he expected to get 20+ sacks that year. The overall unit that year was indeed impressive....Been a very long time since we could have said that about the defense. Still, Allens natural abilities intrigue.

Uh, that's not how I remembered it.

I remember Thomas being upset about the position.

htismaqe
03-10-2005, 06:16 AM
I disagree bout the sensus here that we cant run the 3\4. we can run the falcon. Bell could be the falcon, so could jason taylor (trade holmes for surtain and taylor). so could mitchell, stills (once or twice a game), allen could be the rush side end on passing, Hicks on the other side. Browning in place of allen or backing up hicks mostly on 1st down and second and short. dalton sims siavi rotating inthe middle? ****in tweak it, don't play a 34 all the time improvise. be unconventional;. get the players tweak the scheme.

Somebody needs to cut down on the angel dust.

CHIEF4EVER
03-10-2005, 06:30 AM
We don't have the personnel to run the 3-4. And the "Falcon" was the worst idea EVAR in our history. Most people forget how Derrick Thomas hated it and how teams used to run the ball STRAIGHT at DT. Forget the 3-4, we would need a whole slew of players to make it work.

CHIEF4EVER
03-10-2005, 06:31 AM
(trade holmes for surtain and taylor).

:spock: :shake:

siberian khatru
03-10-2005, 06:42 AM
That's Laz. Or boozer.... or donger or bonger.... or booger.... or bowser....


Who are you, Dr. Seuss?

Kclee
03-10-2005, 09:20 AM
I believe it twas Gaz, maybe?

yep

Warrior5
03-10-2005, 09:24 AM
1. Absolutely love the positive waves coming from the thread title, Phobia...thanks.

2. If this happens, kcnut needs to give us a heads up like he did with Bell. Phobia, I will gladly give up my seat to kcnut in the purple limo.

3. Strategically, this would be a HUGE coup for the Chiefs; sure it would impact the cap significantly, but the mere fact that our LB corp suddenly went from worst to first would ignite interest from certain CBs who might value a legitimate SB shot more than $.

4. I ain't getting involved in 3-4 discussions until Hartwell is signed.


...hope to hear a kcnut heads up around 1230 today.

whoman69
03-10-2005, 09:45 AM
We don't have the line to play 3-4. Everyone is talking right now how crappy our LB corps is. You guys really want to put one more out there?

Straight, No Chaser
03-10-2005, 11:02 AM
1. Absolutely love the positive waves coming from the thread title, Phobia...thanks...

After last night, I suggest he change the title to "Big Shot In The Dark" :p


--->

Warrior5
03-10-2005, 12:04 PM
1. Absolutely love the positive waves coming from the thread title, Phobia...thanks.

2. If this happens, kcnut needs to give us a heads up like he did with Bell. Phobia, I will gladly give up my seat to kcnut in the purple limo.

3. Strategically, this would be a HUGE coup for the Chiefs; sure it would impact the cap significantly, but the mere fact that our LB corp suddenly went from worst to first would ignite interest from certain CBs who might value a legitimate SB shot more than $.

4. I ain't getting involved in 3-4 discussions until Hartwell is signed.


...hope to hear a kcnut heads up around 1230 today.


It's gettin' close to 1230, isn't it.

ROYC75
03-10-2005, 12:05 PM
2 days ago, I called BS when Carl said they were turning their attention away from Linebackers.

Based upon information available to everybody who follows football and the fact that he's received no other offers from his other visits....

it is my opinion that Hartwell will be introduced as a Chief tomorrow morning.

You should be advised that I'm probably wrong. I haven't called any sources and nobody has called me to break any news. I'm just applying some deductive reasoning here.


Lucky call ............. :shake: ( That is if it's true )

Warrior5
03-10-2005, 12:18 PM
My office mate (Donk fan) is about to have a seizure!

He already lost it when Bell signed. I told him Hartwell was next, and he said no way; CP was too cheap and too stupid to be able to make that happen (wonder where I've heard that before).

He's more nervous than I am.


...always lookin' for a chance to smaq a Donk.

siberian khatru
03-10-2005, 12:22 PM
I keep seeing this thread title and thinking "Phobia's calling his money shot." Which, if you've seen one porno ...

But to think he might actually be right about something football-related. Damn, I'm gonna grab me a shotgun and aim for those flying pigs.

Warrior5
03-10-2005, 12:26 PM
Now is no time to be slackin' off, kcnut.

We got 5 minutes until 1230; call your source.

BigRedChief
03-10-2005, 12:33 PM
All hail the great Phobia :wayne::wayne::wayne::wayne:



Reserves the right to call :BS: though

NewChief
03-10-2005, 12:35 PM
Now is no time to be slackin' off, kcnut.

We got 5 minutes until 1230; call your source.

Did nut really scoop the Bell signing? That's scary if he did.

PastorMikH
03-10-2005, 10:06 PM
Hmmmm, I wonder why this thread was burried towards the bottom of the 3rd page???


:)

HemiEd
03-10-2005, 10:11 PM
Hmmmm, I wonder why this thread was burried towards the bottom of the 3rd page???


:)


Still has two hours......

PastorMikH
03-10-2005, 10:14 PM
Still has two hours......



Technically he doesn't. He said "Morning" that was 10 hours, 15 minutes ago.:)


Though, by bumping this to the top, it has the appearance of thursday morning now.

HemiEd
03-10-2005, 10:24 PM
Technically he doesn't. He said "Morning" that was 10 hours, 15 minutes ago.:)


Though, by bumping this to the top, it has the appearance of thursday morning now.


I stand corrected, I just hope we get the guy, it would be really great even if we have to wait a few more days. :thumb:

Manila-Chief
03-10-2005, 10:25 PM
Mike would you say he is a "False Prohet?" And you know what the O.T. says to do with a false prohet?