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homebizy
12-05-2000, 07:52 AM
1 minute left, no timeouts and the first play Grbac runs is a five yard QB keeper!

The last play with six seconds is a five yard pass when the goal line is 11 yards away!

Stupidity is the main reason why Elvis will never take any team to a Super Bowl. I have seen to many decisions like these from Elvis. If he hasnt learned by now, he will never learn.

Elvis better pray that Carl is still around come February because no GM in their right mind would pay this loser a 10 million dollar roster bonus.

Gracie Dean
12-05-2000, 07:55 AM
I actually agree that it was a pretty stupid decision. However, have you considered the play calling in this situation? Was Elvis not setup to fail? Couldn't Gonzo recognize he was blanketed and knock the ball to the turf? I think Raye deserves 60 percent of the blame, Elvis 25%, and Gonzo 15%. Complete stupidity.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 07:59 AM
Phobia,

I thought about that too, but I think as a receiver, you are programed to catch whats thrown to you. The plays was dumb. Your best receiver running an in pattern five yards short of the endzone. However, the guy that threw the ball deserves the ultimate blame. Somebody ought to give Grbac a drug screen. QB keeper to start the drive???

Lurker Brett
12-05-2000, 08:03 AM
As a receiver you are programmed to catch the ball. Would a QB not be programmed to try to hit an open receiver. Bad call, you bet, but who the hell calls a play with a crossing pattern underneath anyway. But with you Ken, I am surprised you haven't laid all the blame at the feet of Peterson. Oh, thats right, he signed him.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 08:14 AM
KC Red,

Some of you guys think that Gonzalez was the only guy running a pattern on the last play. Somebody has to go over the middle to draw a defender away from the endzone. This is football 101. The only problem I have is that the play called for the Chiefs best receiver to be that guy. It is inexcusable for Grbac to throw that ball to Gonzalez. Lockett, Alexander, and Morris were all in the endzone. You have to throw it to one of those guys. If it is incomplete, you get another chance. Totally Grbac's fault.

Maybe you should follow the game a little closer. Your remarks sounds something like Grbac would say. "Duhh, we called the wrong play..."

Throw the ball in the endzone dip****!

Phobia
12-05-2000, 08:14 AM
Although I know this post is mere revelry in KC's failures for ones own personal gratification, one only need to look at the final EG stats to realize the 'old' EG is not back.

25/46 350yds, 3 TD's, 1 INT - Those are not 'old' EG numbers.

Yes, the last play was bad, but is it EG's fault that KC was in that position to begin with?

Yeah, let's hang this game and all the other 'L's on EG, the only damn player that's done anything on both sides of the ball.

Go Chiefs
12-05-2000, 08:18 AM
Let's get this strait. That whole situation was F*cked up! Gonzo should have known better to run 5 short of the EZ - even if it was called from the box and Elvis should have known to thrown it incomplete and try once more for the EZ. And finally the moron in the box should have sent 4 to the EZ.

Let's get this out now!!! There were two players last night that played to win - One was MIke Mazlowski and the other was Elvis Grbac. Everyone else should be shot.

The only way Elvis would not be hung to dry today was if he won it. If it had been dropped in the EZ Elvis would fry!

This is unreal!!!

I want one person to tell me who should QB this team when Elvis packs his $hit and goes away. Maybe we can get one in the draft - huh?

homebizy
12-05-2000, 08:22 AM
Titus,

Nice to hear from you! At least you show up here, I havent seen Bliss in weeks.

A QB has a lot of responsibility. He gets paid top dollar. I expect more out of an 8 year veteran than to run a QB keeper with 60 seconds left and no timeouts. I also expect more out of an 8 year veteran than to throw five yards when you need 11 on the last play. Grbac has racked up big numbers. Any QB throwing 40-50 times a game is going to put up those numbers. Plus, he has playmakers at receiver and tight end. Last night, he got most of his yardage in garbage time. Lets not forget he threw a horrible INT and fumbled a snap. When the chiefs needed him most, he showed his true colors. The only stats that really matter are 5 wins and 8 loses.

The Chiefs would be crazy to give him that roster bonus. Only an idiot like Peterson would do that. I will bet that if a new GM is in KC, either Grbac is let go, or he signs for a lot less. You cant win with that guy!

Phobia
12-05-2000, 08:27 AM
Any QB throwing 40-50 times a game is going to put up those numbers. - Any? Cmon. This from such a learned NFL fan.

Of course, I expect nothing less.

What you call an 8 year NFL veteran, I call a 3rd year starter. Only a dip**** would equate holding a clipboard to actual playing time/experience.

I wouldnt call it garbage time, KC was down by 17, it's obvious to everyone in the stadium and those watching the game, except for apparently you that KC has to throw th ball to catch up. Amazingly, KC does just that and EG is successful.

Yes the only stat that matter is the W/L and only a dip**** would hang all of that on EG.

EG will not get that roster bonus just like last year. Of course, you conveniently forget that as part of your little mantra.<P>

Go Chiefs
12-05-2000, 08:32 AM
I guess the Packers Great Record the last two years is all the Great Favre's doing?

Ken - sir - you are an idiot. Go away.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
12-05-2000, 08:34 AM
Bob Dole thinks there are plenty of teams that would gladly sign Elvis to a long-term deal. (Well...except for that fantasy team that Ken has.)

Go Chiefs
12-05-2000, 08:36 AM
Dole, mark your words - it will happen and Elvis will come back here and smoke this place. I would not blame him and I will continue to support him - less I say much like Denise and Gannon.

egonzo
12-05-2000, 08:39 AM
Watch it be Seattle.

morphius
12-05-2000, 08:40 AM
I wouldn't blame the loss solely on EG, but he deserves as much blame as any player, except Maz. The coaches are to blame for this one...AGAIN.

If Maz isn't starting at MLB next year, it's a crime.

BigChiefsFan
12-05-2000, 08:41 AM
Packfan--
I guess you think Favre should go since he's only won 14 games over the last two seasons? How about Freeman since he dropped a few passes?

Was it a bad mistake? Yes. Will I defend Grbac on this? No. But I'm not nearly dumb enough to believe the "old" Elvis is back. Last year he's improved, this year he's broken out, and with better coaching next year he'll explode.

What the hell do you care, anyway? Your team has issues you should be dealing with. Try going to a Packer board and discussing that, rather than coming in here to rip the Chiefs with no solid basis for any of your arguments.

Either that or get a life/job/wife. If this is how you spend your time, I pity you.

MM
--Thinks cheese has leached into PackFan's brain cavity.

KCTitus
12-05-2000, 08:43 AM
"There were two players last night that played to win - One was MIke Mazlowski and the other was Elvis Grbac."

Wischief: It looks like you and I were watching the same game. Mazlowski earned the starting spot and should be given the game ball. If the rest of the team had his fire and focus, we wouldn't have much to worry about.

Ken, as far as Grbac, he was the one who got us back into the game. Yes it's a ***** the game ended the way it did, but is it all Grbacs fault............I DON'T THINK SO! At least he was out there trying to win the game which is more than I can say for most of the team. Your pisssing match with Peterson has spilled over and jaded your "thinking?" to to the point where you are starting to sound like a real dip****..............even for you.<BR>

morphius
12-05-2000, 08:45 AM
The offense obviously lives & dies with Grbac *gag*. He almost brought his team back, AND he cost KC the game. It IS possible to do both!

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 08:46 AM
The offense scored 24 points against a decent Patriot defense. The defense gives up 30 points to a terrible Patriot's offense.

Last I checked, Packfool, Elvis lined up on the offensive side of the field.

This defense has serious problems. Maybe they can all check into that rehab clinic Favre was in. Cleaned him up well.

TEX
12-05-2000, 08:48 AM
i could see seattle or SD being happy to take the Elvi off our hands...and burn the chiefs twice a year for 400yrds.

Elvis made a stupid decision or two at the end...he was probably just trying to be more like gannon so some other "fans" could enjoy the game.

Go Chiefs
12-05-2000, 08:48 AM
Yes Clint you are correct. I'm not gonna even mention if that is the way to do it, because the Chiefs are the only team in the NFL to require that. We all know that Elvis has stepped up to the top 4 or 5 QB's in this league, but even the Great Ones could not do it without a supporting cast of players and coaches.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 08:52 AM
Some testy Chief fans out there today! The Chiefs are "running the table" like some of you predicted, only in the opposite direction!

Grbac is a loser, plain a simple. When the game is on the line, he usually fails. Thats what separates the mediocre from the good. Winning and losing close games. Statistically, Grbac has had some big games. However, he was non-existent against San Fran, San Diego (sat out), Buffalo, and Oakland (the first game). Last night's final drive was INEXCUSABLE! Either Grbac is zeroed in on Gozalez or he is to stupid to recognize the situation or both. My guess is that he is dumb. If you want mediocrity, Grbac is your guy.

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 08:59 AM
Packfool,
If this is football 101, you should have started in remedial. Who brought the chiefs back to victory against Denver? Seattle? Kept us in the 2nd Oakland game? Shredded the world champs?

All WITHOUT the support of a running game.

Favre is finding out how much Dorsey Levens is worth this year. Grbac's situation is no different.

Your logic (or lack there of) never ceases to amaze.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
12-05-2000, 09:02 AM
You're somehow surprised we're "testy," Ken?

You knew we'd be that way when you showed up to blather on mindlessly about what a loser Grbac is. You intentionally incite it every time you post.<BR>

Gaz
12-05-2000, 09:02 AM
I cringed when Grbac made those two mistakes on the final drive last night. Not so much because it cost us the game, but because it just provided much needed ammo for all the Grbashers that haven't had much fodder since the dreaded "preseason spike incident". It was a terrible mistake, but looking back over the whole season, I think Grbac has done a hell of a job. I hope we sign him to a contract extension.

Gracie Dean
12-05-2000, 09:04 AM
Grbac is the ONLY reason this team has won 5 games this year. Otherwise, we'd still be clawing for our first win to avoid the first winless 16 game schedule. How can anyone who watches the games not see that? Certainly, there are 4 or 5 better QB's in the league that would be better for the Chiefs - you'll get no argument for me. However, Grbac has the best season a KC QB has had in 30 years and we STILL hear the bitching!?!? That part I don't get.

Everyone has a right to complain about the final play of MNF - how much blame you assign to Elvis is up to you.... I'm giving him about 25% of the blame with most of it going to Jimmy Raye.

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:05 AM
Sometimes I wonder why we even try to educate him.

Packfan's a bad example of why abortion should be illegal.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:06 AM
Mi chief fan,

Last time I checked, the Pack has a better record than the Chiefs, are playing in a better division, have more injuries and won a super bowl with their QB.

Dole,

I am testy today too. I wanted the Chiefs to win, or at very least, attempt to at the end of the game. 10 year old flag football QBs make better decisions than Grbac.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:08 AM
KPHOBIA,

You are another Chief fan that thinks Tony Gonzalez was the ONLY receiver going out for a pass on the last play of the game. Amazing. Raye is not the best offensive coordinator, but Gonzo wasnt the only option on the last play. Grbac had Morris, Alexander, and Lockett all in the endzone, but CHOSE to throw it to Gonzo. Brilliant!

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:09 AM
A better division? Now I know your'e smoking something.

A better record? 6-7? WOW, I didn't realize you were 1 FULL GAME better!!!!!!

Oakland is a FAR better team than anyone in YOUR division (yes, even Minnesota).

OK, packers are a sorry team playing in a good division. I'll give you that. ;)<P>

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:11 AM
Of course, it sounds like Ken has photos of Grbac & Carl on the grassy knoll in Dallas, 1963.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:12 AM
Mi Chief fan,

Well, if the post season starts today, three NFC central teams make it and two from your division. You have the NFL's worst team in your division two. Thats a couple of wins for everybody (except the Chiefs). Plus, what about Favre getting a ring? Elvis is still looking for a playoff win after 8 years.

For you Chief fans that want to blame the last play on Jimmy Raye, what about the five yard QB keeper that Grbac ran on the first play? You think Raye made that call?? I doubt it. It cost the Chiefs about 20 seconds and gained five yards. Brilliant Elvis!

Gracie Dean
12-05-2000, 09:13 AM
Now you are a mind reader, Ken? I know Grbac had multiple WR's on that play. Whether Locket, Alexander, & Morris were all in the endzone is probably arguable. Forgive me for not disecting the play after the dejection I experienced. I pretty much turned off the TV and focused my attention on the consolation blowjob I received instead of the Chiefs victory.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
12-05-2000, 09:14 AM
Bob Dole won't defend Elvis' decision to throw the ball to Gonzo in the middle of the field. It was a mistake. That does not, however, somehow eliminate all the improvement over the past 2 seasons.

Lots of QBs make lots of mistakes. It's part of the game.

Gracie Dean
12-05-2000, 09:15 AM
The "keeper" play gained 7 yards and was clearly a broken play. Elvis should have gotten out of bounds but he didn't. I doubt even Jimmy Raye would purposefully call a QB draw under those circumstances considering the wheels Grbac has.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:15 AM
Mi,

Maybe Peterson was there, but not Elvis. Oswald did not act alone, however.

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:17 AM
In fear of making you look like a complete fool, check out what team Elvis was on in the 94-95 campaign. You did say something about a ring, didn't you?

BTW, Chiefs are 6-2 over their last 8 games vs. NFC central.

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:18 AM
In response to #31, Ken wasn't with you last night, was he? http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:19 AM
Phobia,

A broken play?? Are you serious? How does a pass play become a "broken play"? Unless you think Raye called a running play with 60 seconds and no timeouts. Perhaps Elvis thought is was a running play, realized there were no backs behind him, and took off running. If that is the case, it makes him look even more dumb. Dont spin this one, the first play and the last play of the drive is Elvis at his best, under pressure.

Luzap
12-05-2000, 09:20 AM
Ken:

If you REALLY want to pass some blame around here, at least show some lack of bias in doing it. How about putting some blame on the following:

1)All-Pro Will Shields- To quote you, I expect a veteran with experience to show a little more intelligence than to get a penalty like that at a time like that. Talk about a momentum killer.

2)Gunther Cunningham- He was about as prepared for that game last night as Gore is to concede the election. Why he didn't challenge that missed Safety call is beyond me or anyone else for that matter.

3)Donnell Bennett-ah, heck why even bother here.

4)SlyMo- Someone needs to get with the kid who has great potential and teach him to carry the ball with 2 hands not one.

5)The Defense- Short of Maz & Donnie Edwards I can't see that this "grouping" did anything but be the "scout team" for the Pats.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. You and I both know(or at least I hope you do)that this game should never have come down to the last few seconds. We should be talking today about what a pathetic win it was for us.

mark
**********

------------------
KilGore is a noun, not a verb..

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:21 AM
Mi,

good one about Elvis' super bowl ring. Nice job holding the clip board that season Elvis!

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:22 AM
That was all Elvis' fault, Mark! C'mon, you know when Elvis is under pressure, he brings everyone else's play down.

Face it, people: your talking to a friggin brick wall.

Phobia
12-05-2000, 09:25 AM
Packfan: you're the one that equated holding a clipboard to actually playing by calling EG an 8 year veteran.

So which is it?

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:25 AM
Yeah, but you're still an idiot. He does, after all, have a ring.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:25 AM
Mark,

Good point. Elvis has put up good numbers all year, however, he did show his true colors under pressure last night. No wonder he has never led a team to a playoff victory.

No question the Chiefs have holes. Dont blame Morris, fumbles are part of the game. Shields was playing out of position and didnt cost the Chiefs anything. The defense sucks. No secondary, minimal pass rush versus a banged up line and a 3-8 team going nowhere.

Another embarrasssing loss

homebizy
12-05-2000, 09:28 AM
Titus,

You would think that Grbac would learn a little something behind Steve Young. Like I said, a QB keeper and throwing a five yard in when you have no timeouts?? High school mistakes by an 8 year veteran. Elvis is not the brightest QB in the league, thats for sure.

Until this guy produces a playoff win, you wont convince me that he has the mental ability or the heart to take this team any further. He is a loser. No wonder San Fran didnt want him. (and no other team for that matter).

Chieficus
12-05-2000, 09:37 AM
Packfan:

I watched most of the game last night. Rag all you like on Grbac about what you feel to be last-minute errors, overall he played a fine game. It was the team, overall, that sucked. I saw both Gonzales and Alexander drop passes they should have caught that forced the chiefs offense off the field. I saw one or two line drive kc punts that helped set up good field position for New England. I saw kc defensive linemen jump offsides. I saw a defense that crumbled when faced with a no-huddle offense. Grbac was the least of their problems.

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> No wonder San Fran didn't want him. (and no other team for that matter). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I seem to remember San Fran couldn't afford him, and he had several other suitors, such as Chicago, Denver and Seattle.

Why not try using some factual info for a change, Ken. You just might earn some respect and take a step towards adulthood.

Idahojim
12-05-2000, 09:54 AM
Right,blame Grbac cause he had the last boo boo...the Morris fumble and Hicks off sides didn't have anything to do with the score ,did it ? The team lost this one more than Grbac,yes that play was a no brainer,but so was a lot of other plays last night!

[This message has been edited by ROYC75 (edited 12-05-2000).]

Phobia
12-05-2000, 10:24 AM
Until this guy produces a playoff win, you wont convince me that he has the mental ability or the heart to take this team any further. He is a loser. No wonder San Fran didnt want him. (and no other team for that matter).

First off, even if EG got to the SB, you would still call him a loser. Of course if KC got that far, you would be nowhere to be found on the BB. You only show up after losses.

Second, EG has had one chance at a playoff game. I hardly call that a loser since he's only had one chance. If he'd lost 3 or 4 in a row, then I might agree with you.

Last, dont sit there and tell me that the way to develop a QB is to sit him on the bench. A QB learns by playing the game not holding a clipboard.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 10:27 AM
There is a fine line between winning and losing. Not only to Grbac make one bone-headed play, he also made one to start the drive (QB keeper for seven yards and 25 seconds) Stupid! One could argue that the defense got the Chiefs back in the game with the fumble recovery and stopping the Pats before the ill-fated drive. Grbac had the game in his hands and failed. Right now, he is a 5-8 QB. That sucks.

Elvis is a decent QB, but until he leads this team past the regular season, all he will be is decent. And in the NFL, decent isnt good enough.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 10:29 AM
Titus,

Once again chirping without all the facts. Grbac has had at least two playoff games, one with San Fran (he helped the Packers beat the 49ers by throwing three ints) and the last time the Chiefs were in the playoffs. Get your **** straight, please!

Look at the bigger picture: 8 years in the league and two playoff appearances. I wonder why?

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 10:31 AM
Actually Packfool, he's a 5-7 QB(Moon is 0-1). Favre is 6-7. That's much better.

Phobia
12-05-2000, 10:34 AM
Packfan: Im not talking about EG with relation to SF. It has not one damn thing to do with the Chiefs.

You said, 'this team'. I didnt think that referred to his prior history with other teams.

Tell you what, you stop talking out of your a$$ and I wont make you look even more like an idiot.

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 10:36 AM
Titus,
I guess we can talk about Favre's falcon days, as well.

KCTitus
12-05-2000, 10:52 AM
What the hell? I leave for two hours and you're still here running your mouth Fudge Packer? You really need to go out and find yourself a shot of leg for the night to ajust this attitude of yours.

Watch the tape again..........I mean REALLY watch it and if you can get that chip off your shoulder long enough, I think you will see that Elvis played a good game.

~Not holding my breath on this one~

[This message has been edited by Bwana (edited 12-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bwana (edited 12-05-2000).]

Shootr
12-05-2000, 11:21 AM
Granted, Elvis didn't come through and win it for us this time, but he did put us in a situation to have a legit chance to. He drove the field in how many seconds without any timeouts.

I agree, this was a team loss. The ST's coverage and defense lacked again. I thought the defense might turn it around, but I really think the big momentum swing(s) was the field goal to end the first half and then going 3 and out to begin the second half. I thought that was killer.

To Hicks' credit, he has had a lot more positive plays than negative.



------------------
Brian K.

It doesn't make a difference what temperature a room is, it's always room temperature.

[i]Steven Wright </I>

Luzap
12-05-2000, 11:47 AM
Packfan:

"Elvis is a decent QB, but until he leads this team past the regular season, all he will be is decent. And in the NFL, decent isnt good enough."

That's the problem in the NFL nowadays Ken. This league is filled with nothing but "decent" QB's, who overachieve one year, and then underachieve the next. Elvis has made good progress since the SD game last year, and has played, during that same stretch some of the best ball of ANY QB in the league.

Has he made bonehead plays? Damn straight...but name me one QB who hasn't.

Could he be more intelligent about his throws into double coverage? Once again, sure could. But if you truly watch all the QB's in the league you will see a lot of forced throws, especially by the better QB's.

I cannot say Elvis is blameless for the Chiefs situation, but I can look around and keep myself busy if I was to kick butts of the people who helped contribute to the demise of the Chiefs. In fact that would probably be a full-time job.

If you really want to be angry with Grbac, fine, get it out. But, at least be reasonable enough to agree that the blame is long and distinguished in "usual suspects" and Elvis is down the list quite a ways.

mark
************


------------------
KilGore is a noun, not a verb..

Fat Homer
12-05-2000, 11:50 AM
I'm sorry, I've waited all morning...I've tried to refrain but I just can't.....


**** YOU PACKFAN....GO STICK SOME CHEDDAR UP YOUR *** !!!!!!

homebizy
12-05-2000, 02:17 PM
Mark,

Bozo the quarterback made a couple of boneheaded plays, one that I had never seen before: A QB keeper with 60 seconds, no timeouts, and the game winning TD 70 yards away. The other, I kind of expected. Grbac gets flustered under pressure.

The Chiefs defense did their part in getting the turnover and holding the Pats and forcing them to punt. Bozo did his part by running the QB keeper then passing to Gonzo for five when the team needed 11.

Nice work Elvis!

Lurker Brett
12-05-2000, 02:44 PM
Packfan, you have finally made me do something I have not done in the 2 years I have posted on this and the other board. You are a complete ***hole. No one, none of the disgusting trolls on the other board, nor anyone who disagrees with me, have ever prompted this response, and hopefully, no one ever will again. But every, and I do mean EVERY comment you make about the Chiefs, is based upon the Packers and there seemingly endless runs of Super Bowl victories. The Chiefs have one, there are still several in the NFL, who don't, but we are not living in the past, most Chief fans recognize the need for change, but for the life of me, why would it be Grbac. Don't forget, it takes at least a year, or more, to develop the QB/Receiver touch, to get to know them. Elvis and his group are achieving that, lets add to what we now have, and build, lets not tear apart the only offense we have and start over. I wish you could find a GB board, and praise them, and there oft injured QB, and leave ours alone.

Iowanian
12-05-2000, 03:52 PM
It is obvious that Packfan is not an Elvis fan. WHO CARES. If you don't like his opinion, don't read his posts/threads.

I myself, agree with both sides. I think Elvis played a good, damn near great game. The only problem is that he ended it that way. It is almost like he sets himself up for disappointment. I think he still lacks confidence. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT ENDING.

Elvis is far from the only one to blame, but it was his hand that released the pass.....that is unacceptable. For the receiver to catch the ball.......that is unacceptable. For Raye to still be making the calls......that is unacceptable.

For Grbac lovers to say "since he played a great game, it is okay that he made that pass"....BULL$HIT. There was no second chance left. For Packfan to say that Grbac is horrible.......BULL$HIT.

I personally am an Alexander fan. He drops his share of passes, but he has been one hell of an asset this year. If I recall correctly, there were many people on this board that wanted him gone at the begining of this year.

------------------
TWB

homebizy
12-05-2000, 03:53 PM
KCRED,

I dont know what you are talking about. I rarely bring up the Packers. I only talk about them when someone else brings them up. You state "EVERY" comment I make is centered around the Packers. Do you have trouble reading and comprehending? Check out my post prior to the one you made. Nothing about the packers. Only about Bozo the quarterback (Grbac). Look, the truth hurts, I can tell. You dont like what I say, then dont read it. Pretty simple. Just like it pretty simple to throw the ball in the endzone on third and goal from the 11 with no timeouts left.

you shouldnt take these chiefs loses so personal. Its only a game!

Luzap
12-05-2000, 04:37 PM
Ken:

I think we both agree it was a mistake by Grbac to make that last pass, and I am not sure why he decided to run on first down either.

But, unlike you, I am not going to trash the QB, when almost everything about that game smelled like a week old piece of fried chicken. You keep tap dancing around the fact that there was plenty of blame to go around,(you kind of acknowledged it in one of your posts to me)starting with Gunther doing his impersonation of Harpo Marx. Then to watch as Gunther chewed on Mike Stock for the ST play last night, all I could think of what that he got what he deserved by keeping Stock "out of loyalty".

con't

homebizy
12-05-2000, 04:37 PM
Titus,

Still having problems reading and comprehending. I said "Elvis has never led a team to a playoff victory". Not "this team". We all know he hasnt led this team, the Chiefs, to a playoff victory. The last time the Chiefs got one of those, Moon was with Houston, Grbac was at Michigan, Slyvester Morris was a freshmen in high school, and Joe Montana was the Chiefs QB. No **** titus!

Get your facts straight and maybe we can talk some football.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 04:41 PM
Mark,

You are correct, blame goes all around. I happen to think that there were two pretty even teams out there last night so I am not surprised we lost. However, when you have a chance to win (yes the defense and Grbac gave us that chance), the last thing a fan expects is for the Quarterback (who is a seasoned veteran) to make decisions like Grbac made last night. UN ACCEPT ABLE! I am pissed at him. When will it end? Will his blunders end? And the Chiefs are set to pay this 5-8 blunder-prone QB and $10 million dollar signing bonus.

I hope they release him.

12-05-2000, 04:45 PM
Jesus Christ Packfan...

Guys, there's something you should know about Ken.

1) he likes to ***** about the Chiefs
2) he can't stand to have anyone agree with him

Notice that now that a majority of us are bitching about CP that he's suddenly the biggest hater on the board of...the QB?

Yep, he doesn't care about CP or EG, he just wants to stir up trouble...

Packfan,
Our only "resident" troll...

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

Luzap
12-05-2000, 04:45 PM
con't

Then I have to watch as Chester, Hicks, and Will Shields, (remember him, All-Pro, he of the 6 million dollar desire)all get penalties at points where it aided a scoring drive for the Pats.

I watched as several times the Pats ran that quick pass to the Wide Receiver only to watch him scamper for 10-15 more yards when Maslowski caught up to him to tackle him. I watched as the less-mobile -than-Grbac Drew Bledsoe got first downs by himself twice. Where was the "D" then? And as for that swan dive by Faulk at the goal line on 4th down, did anyone see Patton lose his jock on that fake by Henry Thomas?

Once again, if you wanna blame Elvis, fine, hand it out. But, just for once, "Show Me" a post on your part that will actually point out the rest of the "usual suspects".

mark
**********

------------------
KilGore is a noun, not a verb..

Luzap
12-05-2000, 04:47 PM
Ken:

I posted my last one before I saw your post #64

mark
***********

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 04:51 PM
We all know what Packfool is all about. He's never in here after a win, only a loss(that's why he 's been here a lot lately).

Trying to talk football wit Packfool is like discussing ice hockey with Fidel Castro.

homebizy
12-05-2000, 05:21 PM
Mi chief fan,

The chiefs havent had a win in five weeks! Dude, give me a break! I was here after the Rams and Broncos games. When the Chiefs dont win in five plus weeks, you can say the same thing about everyone being on "only after loses"!

Mark,

Your points are well taken. As you know, I am not a big James Hasty fan. I cant stand Chester and Dan Williams either. You know that I have held my stance on these guys for a looong time. Its just recent that others are starting to agree with me. One of the problems with some of the fans on here is that their expectations are to high. Yes, the Chiefs should have beaten San Diego last week. But should they have beaten the Pats? I dont think so. They got killed two years ago in Foxborough, could have lost last year at home when Adam hit the upright, and were riding a four game losing streak entering the game in Foxborough last night. The better team won and I am OK with that. What I am not OK with is the fact that another Grbac blunder cost us a shot at a win. Who expected Grbac to run a QB sneak during a two minute drill? Who expected him to throw short on the last play of the game? You never know what to expect from this guy when the game is on the line. Its no wonder he doesnt have any playoff victories under his belt. For one, he cant get there, and second, when he does, he ususally self distructs. <P>

Chief Henry
12-05-2000, 06:04 PM
Is Elvis the one to take us to the "promised land"? I doubt it, I've seen him "brain fart" once to often in the crunch! Having said that, he is the least of our problems, our special teams SUCK! 30, 40, 50 yard returns! Our defense(?) SUCKS! What's it gonna take to keep our D Line "onsides"? Our running game SUCKSSSS!!!! Out of our "committe", how many of our RB's(?) could gain a hundred yards behind Denver's O Line? Or is our O Line as good as it's been touted???? Our coaching staff SUCKS!!! Why, why would we bring in DBennett for crucial plays???? He's on the sidelines for 58 minutes of the game, I'm sure he's good and warm when we bring him in for his 2-3 plays a game! Oh well, there's always next year to look forward to, I wonder what QB or RB we'll draft that won't payoff????<BR>

Baby Lee
12-05-2000, 06:38 PM
Ahhh, Packfool, you have such an amazing grasp on reality. I said that you had been around alot lately, and that you seem to come around only after losses.

You retort by giving the "who's buried in Gant's tomb?" response. "The chiefs haven't won in 5 weeks." NO F%#KING SH!T!!!

You have an uncanny grasp on the obvious.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 07:28 AM
Packfan: Did you not write this?

Until this guy produces a playoff win, you wont convince me that he has the mental ability or the heart to take this team any further.

If you deny writing this, you are probably the most idiotic person I have ever met.

I responded to this line in my post #48 by saying EG has had one chance to do the task that would convince you that he's a leader. I was not talking about SF.

Stick to the discussion and I wont make you look like an idiot.

BTW, you dont discuss football. You never have.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 07:36 AM
Titus,

If I am not talking football, what AM I talking about? Golf?? Good God! Are you lit right now? Put down the cocaine before you talk to me.

Grbac has NEVER won a playoff game with any team. Get that through your thick skull already! I feel like I am talking to Bliss right now and we all know how thick he is. Until he wins one with the Chiefs or anybody else, it wont convince me that he is a leader or has the mental capacity to play winning football.

Make sense now??

2+2=4 Titus. Its not that hard!

Phobia
12-06-2000, 07:39 AM
What a f*cking moron you are...You just changed your statement in order to 'bash' me.

Is that talking football you idiot?

No.

You see, if you want to talk football, I will talk it with you. That's not what you're about and everyone here knows it.

Im glad that remedial math course is paying off. I knew 2+2 about 25 years ago, but thanks for sharing what you learned last night.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 07:43 AM
Titus,

Go back to bed!

You end up bashing yourself with these rediculous posts. Know your football and you wont look like such a fool. I would have a hell of a lot more respect if you would admit that you are wrong once in awhile. Instead, you spin things. Like Grbac. You had NO IDEA that he played in a playoff game with the 49ers. Instead of admitting this, you spin it and say "I meant the Chiefs!" Yea, right.

2+2=4 Titus. Its clear we need to go back to basics with you. I really think you are Bliss disguised as Titus.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 07:47 AM
Dude, Im sorry you got problems.

Your first statement was about the Chiefs. I said EG only had one chance with the Chiefs. Now you want to change your statement in an attempt to 'bash' me for something I didnt say.

I never spoke anything about SF. Yes, I knew he was in the GB/SF playoff game that Desmond Howard won for GB the same year that Desmond Howard won the SB for Green Bay. You should be thankful that Desmond was on your team that year.

Words mean things and when you said 'this team', I took that to mean the Chiefs since this is a Chiefs board.

Your squiggling now.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 07:51 AM
Titus,

He can only play for one team at a time. Grbac will not get "this team" a playoff victory. Yes, I meant this team - the Chiefs. Again, Grbac can only play for one team at a time. In fact, Grbac hasnt won a playoff game in his career. This includes his previous team, the 49ers. He has been in the league for approx 8 years and has no playoff victories.

How are you doing now Titus. Does that make sense? No playoff wins, means NO PLAYOFF WINS. OK???

Phobia
12-06-2000, 07:59 AM
Another new statement...

My response about EG having only one chance to lead this team was in response to your statement:

Until this guy produces a playoff win, you wont convince me that he has the mental ability or the heart to take this team any further.

If you want to talk about his SF days, fine with me, but it really doesnt mean much to KC or to the team next year.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 08:06 AM
Titus,

He has had a chance with the Chiefs for four years. See if you can follow me here: You cant win a playoff game if you dont get to the playoffs. The Chiefs, under Grbac's leadership, have missed the playoffs three of the last four years. So, he has been given opportunity. Not only is he not good enough to engineer a playoff win, clearly, he isnt good enough to GET the team to the playoffs. Monday night, IMO, was vintage Grbac. Put up numbers in garbage time, but totally collapse when the pressure is on. The toughest thing to do in football in engineer a two minute offense, needing a TD, on the road in a high profile game. Grbac doesnt have the mental stability to do this.

egonzo
12-06-2000, 08:12 AM
Ken, your ability to be a grown man acting like a juvenile is unsurpassed.

Does anyone really care what Ken thinks about the Chiefs?

I think Pack fan is Denise in disguise.

He did it in Denver THIS year, Kent.

[This message has been edited by stevieray (edited 12-06-2000).]

Phobia
12-06-2000, 08:18 AM
You're very hard to follow because you just made several assumptions under a series of unrelated facts, and yet ANOTHER statement to validate your previous assertions, but I will try:

First, you state that, NOW, instead of actual playoff victories that EG is solely responsible for taking the team to the playoffs in the last 4 years.

Did you know that in 1997 AND 1998, KC had THE saviour on our team and STILL couldnt make it past the first round? This little fact cant be ignored in the light of the recent success that the saviour has given his new team the Raiders.

Next, you state that EG puts up numbers only in 'garbage time'. I find this assertion without fact or any logical explanation.

If EG was as bad as you state, how would he put up numbers at all? I mean KC was down by 17 in the 3rd quarter. Those who understand football know that if a team is down by 17 in the 3rd quarter, the team is going to throw the football. If EG has a propensity for making bonehead plays, then explain for me how he 'puts up' numbers in garbage time. Wouldnt he throw incompletions or intereceptions instead?

Yes, the toughest thing to do is engineer a 2 minute drive. I agree. And yes, EG did make a bonehead play on that last drive. One play does not a season make.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 08:59 AM
The "saviour" sat the bench while he was in KC. Its obvious the organization is committed to Grbac even though he wasnt the best QB on the roster at the time. Thats being proven right now by Gannon being the odds on favorite to win the MVP and Grbac self distructing on a 5-8 team.

I am on record as saying that Grbac is a "decent" Quarterback. But decent QB's usually dont muster post season success. I said "usually" You can throw me the Mark Rypiens and Jeff Hostetlers and Chris Chandlers of the world, but by in large, Super Bowls are won with great QBs, not decent one.

Steivey Ray,

You dont like what I say, dont read it.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:02 AM
Titus,

Like I have told you before, you are quite the fighter. A fiesty little guy, BUT you reach with most of your points. You tend to spew information that isnt factual and then when confronted, put a different spin on the issue. You cant get that by me. Its clear that I know a lot more about your team than you do.

KCTitus
12-06-2000, 09:03 AM
Titus: Don't let the little green and YELLOW packer boy get you worked up. Who really gives a rats a$$ what he thinks? As you stated, it is easy to see why he is here and it sure as hell isn't to talk football.<BR>

Fat Homer
12-06-2000, 09:04 AM
Hey, I managed to wait 2 days for this reply...but I can't take it any longer...

**** YOU KEN AND THE ****ING CHEESE YOU RODE IN ON....go back to chees land and leave us alone...

or did I already say this yesterday...oh well, it's worth repeating...

Ken, am I to understand that you consider Gannon a great QB?....you are a dumb arse if that's your belief...Grbac may not be great, but I'm not ready to clear a space in Canton for Gannon...idiot...



[This message has been edited by 58Forever (edited 12-06-2000).]

Phobia
12-06-2000, 09:11 AM
LMFAO, Ken. You just described yourself!

A fiesty little guy, BUT you reach with most of your points. You tend to spew information that isnt factual and then when confronted, put a different spin on the issue.

damn man, I cant believe you are that stupid.

Gannon did not 'sit on the bench' while he was in KC and while EG was here. He played almost half the time if not more especially in 1998 after Marty benched EG. Proof that you speak from your a$$.

You cannot on one hand hold EG solely responsible for those seasons and at the same time give Gannon credit for his new found success this year. To do so would be to RECOGNIZE that there are more factors at play here than just EG.

Maybe I should help you out here, since it's obvious you dont know what you're talking about:

Even with Gannon in KC, KC lacked a solid running game that Gannon could not fall back on. While KC/Mary/Carl were committed to EG as the starter, his injuries forced EG to sit. At the same time in 1998, the team as a whole had given up on Marty and were playing a similar style of football to what we are now witnessing in 2000.

Gannon leaves KC as a FA (He wasnt traded--you confuse these things) and goes to a raider team that has a solid running game. Bolstered by this running game, and Coaches willing to exploit Gannon's legs, the team is successful.

Time to start spinning yet again, Ken.<P>

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:12 AM
Bwana,

I have asked Titus this same question and he refuses to answer:

If I am not talking about football, what am I talking about?

I doubt I will get answer from you either. You guys obviously dont like to hear the truth about your team. No playoff wins in seven years and 5-8 this year and you still think thinks are great. Go figure.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:18 AM
Titus,

I never said Gannon was traded.

Gannon played when Grbac/Bono were injured. Gannon got a chance in the Colts game after Bono threw four picks and took them down the field. At least he took a shot at the endzone even thought they only need three points. Elliott ended up shanking his third field goal of the game (nice signing Carl!)

Gannon played a good part of 1998 and played well. When Grbac got healthy, Gannon went to the bench. Then Grbac put up 10 points in the Chiefs playoff game agains the Broncos.

Titus, I know what I am talking about. You dont have much to stand on when your man (Grbac) is 5-8, has never engineered a playoff win, and made two bonehead plays in one minute on Monday. Instead, you chose to compare Gannon to Grbac! Gannon has his team 10-3, is the odds on favorite to win the MVP and his team is headed to the playoffs. Nice comparison. While were at it, lets compare Gunter Cunningham to Vince Lombardi.

See, this is what I am saying: YOU make yourself look stupid.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 09:20 AM
No playoff wins in seven years and 5-8 this year and you still think thinks are great.

This is case in point. This is an inflammatory statement that you know to be false. NO ONE here thinks or has posted 'things are great'.

That's your MO. You do it all the time.

Your 'question' was rhetorical and mere BS and was so patently absurd, didnt deserve a response. But, this statement is a good example.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:22 AM
Titus,

You keep defending Grbac like he's Johnny Unitas. Even comparing him to a guy who is having an MVP year (Gannon). What other assumption am I supposed to make?

You want to compare Vince to Gunter Cunningham too?<P>

Phobia
12-06-2000, 09:23 AM
When Grbac got healthy, Gannon went to the bench. - What a complete dumba$$.

Grbac was benched in 1998, he was taken out of the Seattle game and Gannon was put in and played the 4 following games.

Grbac did not start again until the last game of the year, which coincidentally was on the road.

I didnt compare EG to Gannon, nice try to spin the discussion. I suggest you re-read the post because you missed the boat on that one.

BigChiefsFan
12-06-2000, 09:24 AM
Pack--
Saying you know more about the Chiefs than anyone here is like saying my six year old nephew knows more about physics than Hawking does. Get a clue, would ya?

Besides Monday nite and the pre-season game this year, what other examples can you give for Elvis being a moron? He's thrown some bad passes in career, but your precious Favre has chucked twice as many. The playoff game against Denver with no audibles installed due to a moronic OC doesn't count. At what other time has Elvis, and Elvis alone, caused THIS team to lose a vital game? He was 8-1 the year he broke his collar bone...sounds like he was doing alright when there was a running game and decent defense.

And if the QB is THE player that gets a team to a SB, why does Green Bay suck so bad this year? Isn't Brett the wonder boy? Why did he only take them to the big game twice, losing one, rather than winning it every year?

My point in all of this is that one player doesn't make a team.

Oh yeah, my wife was on here with me last night and read some of your posts. She talked to some of her relatives in Monroe, WI. Better stay the hell away fro there. You are giving Packer fans everywhere a bad name, and they're looking for blood.

MM
~~Knows that Packfan in no way represents true Packers fans...they can spell.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 09:26 AM
#90 is another wonderful example of your inflammatory BS, Ken.

I am not defending EG, but you know that already.

I am not comparing EG to Gannon and you know this too.

What I have done and said several times and you obviously dont read is that EG did make a dumb play on that drive. One play does not sum up his entire season.

EG has been KC's only bright spot this year, which isnt saying much.

Last, I have said there is more wrong with this team than just EG.

Hardly a defense, but more spin and BS from Ken.

KCTitus
12-06-2000, 09:29 AM
Ken: PLEASE! Give me a ****ing break pal. If your main reason for being here is to "talk football" my main reason for being in business it to be a public service and make no profit.

As far a QB's, how long do you think your boy Favre has before he has to hang it up?

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:32 AM
Titus,

You brought Gannon into this, not me. Remember your "saviour" comment. You wondered how he could possibly be the backup for the Chiefs. Clearly, he was and is better than Grbac. For some reason, records mean nothing to you. Wake up! The chiefs havent won a playoff game and have missed the playoffs in 3 of the last 4 years. And all this non-success has been with Elvis Grbac. You must be like Carl and take the QB position lightly. For the majority of teams, it is regarded as the most important position on the field.

Elvis isnt working dude. 8 year veterans shouldnt be making the kind of mistakes he made last night. Now, the Chiefs have a decision to make. Pay the servicable QB 10 million or cut him. What do you want them to do?

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:34 AM
Bwana,

Nice analogy.

Favre has about three more years, tops. He is slowing down, cant run from defenders or push them away like he used to. He is still very accurate and having a good year. His receivers are dropping balls left and right on him. I hesitate to tell you any of this because you probably havent seen many Packer games. Trust me, Favre is still in his prime. He is the ONLY reason that the has six wins. Without him, three at the most.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 09:37 AM
Ok...this is getting silly. You dont even read my posts and then spin them to fit some twisted argument.

Ken Spin: You wondered how he could possibly be the backup for the Chiefs.

Actual Post: You cannot on one hand hold EG solely responsible for those seasons and at the same time give Gannon credit for his new found success this year. To do so would be to RECOGNIZE that there are more factors at play here than just EG.

How do YOU reconcile the fact that Gannon did not have the success in KC that he now has in Oakland? It's not because of EG. My opinion is the difference in coaching and a good running game and stiff defense, what's your opinion?

The rest of #95 is not about football but some BS assertion about my opinions which, of course, are wrong because you dont read my posts or refuse to understand them.<P>

KCTitus
12-06-2000, 09:45 AM
Ken: yes, I have had the chance to catch a few full Packer games this year and moments of others with direct tv. From what I can see, they ar ein the same boat as the Chiefs and in the end, should have about the same record.

Af far as all the Chiefs fans be ok with where the team is right now. All you have to do is check out most of the numerous threads posted on this board to tell that is not the case. As a matter of fact, show me ONE fan on this board that is happy with the way this season is going.

[This message has been edited by Bwana (edited 12-06-2000).]

Griese Fan
12-06-2000, 09:45 AM
I agree that Grbac last play was extremely stupid, but Ken, you know as well as I do, that regardless of Grbac's play, he was, and is never going to receive that 10 mil bonus, That after the season is over that CP was/is going to rework a new deal. This is just a backhanded attempt to bash CP yet again.
the milkman
tired of the rhetoric

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:48 AM
Answer my question first:

Should the chiefs pay Grbac the 10 million owed in February or should they cut him?

KCTitus
12-06-2000, 09:51 AM
Show him the money...... if you have to, but I don't see the Chiefs organization having ot shill it out, do you? They will restructure the deal and there won't be any 10 mill.

[This message has been edited by Bwana (edited 12-06-2000).]

12-06-2000, 09:52 AM
Sorry Pack, but your logic is flawed...

Last year the Raiders were 8-8

Gannon's stats:

304/515 59.0% 24TD 14INT 3804 yards

This year they are 10-3

Gannon's stats:

242/401 60.3% 20TD 7INT 2903 yards
on pace for
297/493 60.2% 25TD 9INT 3562 yards

Their running game is better than last year, their defense is better than last year, but Gannon isn't, so it seems to me that logic would dictate Gannon isn't the reason they're 10-3.

Likewise, the Chiefs went from 1st to last in rushing and their defense SUCKS, while Grbac has in some cases doubled his output over previous years.

Look over your arguments before you spew. Football is a TEAM sport, and a record does not demonstrate the overall ability of the quarterback.

By the way, Grbac was SUPPOSED to have been paid that $10 million LAST YEAR. Why didn't we cut him then? You act like that's the only recourse. You're an idiot, you know he'll restructure and you can't stand it.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator

[This message has been edited by htismaqe (edited 12-06-2000).]

Phobia
12-06-2000, 09:53 AM
LOL...a loaded question with neither option being viable.

EG's contract will be restructured and he wont be paid the bonus just like last year.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:54 AM
Lompoc,

No, I dont know that Peterson wont give Grbac his 10 million. Hell, Peterson signed Dan Williams to top dollar after he sat out a year. He gave Chester a huge raise after trading for him, and he signed Carlton Gray (inactive every week) to a huge contract. Theres no telling what Carl will or will not do.

Packers and Chiefs are only in the same boat in terms of record. The Packers have a better defense, and better coaching. Chiefs have better skill players at receivers. packers are closer to the top than the bottom. The Chiefs are closer to the bottom than to the top. The reason I say this is simple: Brett Favre.

KCCory
12-06-2000, 09:54 AM
The Chiefs will neither cut Grbac nor pay his infamous bonus.

KCTitus
12-06-2000, 09:56 AM
"Packers and Chiefs are only in the same boat in terms of record"

Isn't that the bottom line? Would of, could of, should of doesn't cut it.

bishop_74
12-06-2000, 09:57 AM
Per #96 if the argument of dropped passes can be put into the Grbac equation no one should be bashing him at all.

Chief receivers dropped so many balls Monday night I imagine the only safe pass was right up the gut.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:57 AM
Titus,

You think Grbac will renegotiate again?? With such a shortage of NFL QBs and Grbacs impressive numbers, dont you think he thinks he intitle to the money.

Dave Lane
12-06-2000, 09:59 AM
Grbac should renegotiate to get the NFL minimum salary along with Donnell Bennett.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 09:59 AM
Bwana,

That is the bottom line, but the Chiefs are in need of a house cleaning. The Packer have a bonafide superstar at the most important position on the field. Thats why I say the packers are in better shape. Chiefs have to decide what to do with Grbac. Pay him and ensure continued mediocrity, or cut him and start from scratch.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 10:00 AM
Ken: Grbac's impressive numbers? WTF? Somebody must have stole Ken's password, this is the same person that has been blaming EG for KC's failures over the last 4 years and is now saying EG's had impressive numbers?

You're right, Ken, you are very hard to follow.

KCTitus
12-06-2000, 10:02 AM
"That is the bottom line, but the Chiefs are in need of a house cleaning."

I think most people (if not everyone on this board) would agree that serious changes need to be made in the off season. Not everyone would agree with every change, but who is going to argue with change under the current conditions?

Go Chiefs
12-06-2000, 10:08 AM
"I hesitate to tell you any of this because you probably havent seen many Packer games. Trust me, Favre is still in his prime. He is the ONLY reason that the has six wins. Without him, three at the most."

Ken - you *ucking moron. Guess what fool, I do watch every Packer game and Brett is way past him prime. Yep - Bill Schroedor is a dandy and drops plenty. But don't come on her telling us that Favre is still the one of old. He sucks and his RECORD and his stats prove it! Yes, at one time he was the best, but so was Reggie White.

You truely are a moron. BTW - have you ever been to Green Bay?

BigChiefsFan
12-06-2000, 10:13 AM
WisChief--
You beat me to it!! I have also seen at least a part of every Pack game this year on satellite (the wife makes me do it) and they look eerily similar to KC: no real running game, piss-poor defense and and a QB that carries the team.

The difference: Grbac has better numbers. How scary is that?

MM
~~Knows more about Green Bay than Packf*ck does.

Griese Fan
12-06-2000, 10:13 AM
Ken,
If you honestly don't know that Elvis will get a reworked deal, then you are just a moron.
Since I don't think you're a moron, then the only other option is that you think the rest of us are morons
the milkman
knows crap when he sees it

Dr. Red
12-06-2000, 10:16 AM
This is a Boomer insight, so take it for what its worth. But on his radio show, Boomer swears that Farve is chucking games in defiance of the coaching staff. He claims 'inside info' a la Maas. Further he points out that, in non-critical situations, his passess to Freeman are reliably impeccable. Farve wants to give Freeman good numbers and lose, in rebellion against this present coaching staff.
If there is a shred of truth to this, so much for the 'team on the rise' crapola from Fudgepack.

Duck Dog
12-06-2000, 10:20 AM
I am so sick of people bashing Elvis when he is probably the only reason we've won as many as we have. For some convincing proof, reference the San Diego game. Imagine Moon or Collins doing that every game.

I have said this so many times I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but it's true: if EVERY man on this team did their job as well as EG does his job, we'd be 12-1 or 11-2 and heading for a SB win.

Elvis is NOT the problem here people!!

TheBigChief
12-06-2000, 10:37 AM
Agreed! If our Defense & ST didn't SUCK, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Grbac has played magnificently this year (much, much better than Favre has, Packfan) - our inept D and ST have ruined the season (along with overall piss-poor coaching).

F. Gump
12-06-2000, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>His receivers are dropping balls left and right on him...Trust me, Favre is still in his prime. He is the ONLY reason that the has six wins. Without him, three at the most.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apply this same logic to Grbac, Kennie. How many wins would the Chiefs have with Moon or Collins (or for that matter Gannon) when we have no running game, a horrible defense and one of the worst special teams in the NFL??

No need to answer, I know what it will be...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>8 year veterans shouldnt be making the kind of mistakes he made last night...No playoff wins...5-8 record, yadda, yadda, yadda...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


[This message has been edited by Dartgod (edited 12-06-2000).]

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 12:30 PM
Geez, Packfool, you're still here opening your suck? Isn't there a cheese festival somewhere where your analysis means something?

Do yourself and all of us a favor Captain Contradiction: Don't go away mad, just go away!

Chief Henry
12-06-2000, 12:44 PM
http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/sports.pat,sports/3774f76b.c05,.html

nuf sed

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 12:49 PM
Wow, 2 mistakes. I suppose we'd be better off with Moon or Collins, right?

I'll give you credit, Snapper, at least you present an argument. Packfool just talks out of his a$$>

Idahojim
12-06-2000, 01:11 PM
#117 Says it like I stated earlier...Must be a team sport,you can't blame 1 person. It's not Elvis's fault that they were behind ,but yet you want to call him a failure cause he doesn't pull the game out for the teams inability to keep it close or to keep us in front!

Elvis is not the problem with this team!

homebizy
12-06-2000, 01:36 PM
Boy, you guys can get nasty! I said that Grbac is a decent QB, but one who wont succeed in the post season. A guy who makes bad decisions under pressure. I even back it up with facts such as no playoff wins, non-playoffs in three of last four seasons, a total of two playoff games in his career, a 5-8 record this year, sitting out games with minor injuries ect. And what do I get in response?

Favre sucks! (Wis Chief)

Brilliant! Three time MVP sucks!

Last time I looked at the standings, Grbac and all his yardage have amounted for five lousy wins. Only one against a team that would make the playoffs if the season ended. Fact is, he pussed out at San Diego, threw a TD pass to the Colts in a winnable game at home, put up 17 points agains a soft Raider defense in a loss, put up 7 points againt the worst defense in the leauge (49ers), and then his gaffes last Monday; two minute drill, pick in the third qtr, and a fumbled snap.

At least I am a bit realistic when it comes to Grbac. AND, I back it up with facts. How about you guys doing the same? <P>

homebizy
12-06-2000, 01:41 PM
Football is a team sport. So is baseball. But a Quarterback and Pitcher have a lot more responsibility than other players in each sport. Some of you dont get that. Some of you think like Carl that you can simply rotate on FA reject at the QB position and win games. It doesnt work. The Chiefs have proven it. Grbac has proven it. Look at the filth and gook the Chiefs have at QB: Grbac, Moon, Collins. All cut by previous teams that didnt care to resign them. What does that tell you? If you are worth a ****, you take care of that guy and resign him.

As long as the Chiefs dont have any playoff wins, you cant argue against it.

BigChiefsFan
12-06-2000, 01:43 PM
That's funny Packfan, I didn't know that only one player was responsible for scoring every point for his team. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess it's all Brett's fault that the Packers can't score points, not his O-line, RBs, WRs, TE, coaching staff or anyone else. Either that or Brett isn't quite the leader everyone thought he would always be.

The Falcons didn't think Favre was worth a sh!t, and, if memory serves me correctly, he wasn't until his third or fourth year as a starter. Elvis hasn't even started 4 full seasons.

I agree that Grbac has made some mistakes, some more costly than others. Quite frankly, I agree that a playoff win or two would help. But your argument that it's all his fault shows just how f*cking stupid you really are.

MM
~~Never ceases to be amazed by Packfan's stupidity.

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 12-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 12-06-2000).]

Phobia
12-06-2000, 01:46 PM
Post #124 and #125 are in direct contradiction to one another.

124: Grbac and all his yardage have amounted for five lousy wins

125: Football is a team sport

And then goes on to blather about FA rejects...do you really want to start this discussion again, Ken.

Dr. Red
12-06-2000, 01:47 PM
The point is that no QB is going to win with regularity conjoined with the STs and Defense we have right now.
Warner, the phenom, won 7 with no D, but it is rapidly become apparent that that will not last. When I defend Grbac, it isn't because I think he's perfect and can do no wrong. It is because he is not the problem. He's not even that high on the list.
If a QB makes all the difference, why hasn't Favre succeeded in taking EVERY GB team in the past few years to the SB? Why did Marino go to a grand total of 1 SB? Why does Jeffie George bounce from team to team? Why are the Colts facing the same post-season prospects as the Chiefs? Why is testeverde succeeding in NY when he never had before? Meanwhile, the Dolphins, Ravens, Steelers, Bucs, Saints, and Lions are poised to carry mediocre QBs into the playoffs.

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 01:52 PM
That's been his hollow argument all along. Here's some of Packfool's "Facts:"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Grbac, Collins, Moon. all cut by previous teams <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad, eh moron.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Last time I looked at the standings, Grbac and all his yardage have amounted to five lousy wins <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


One question: what QB could have done more with what he has to work with? THose 5 wins were the direct result of Elvis. I wonder where this team would be without him.

Heck, even Greg Maddux & Tom Glavine give up runs. They at least have a supporting cast to help out, something that you, Packfool, are too ignorant to see in all of your assinine comparisons between 2 totally different sports.(Guess watching the Brewers all these years will do that to ya).

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 12-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 12-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 12-06-2000).]

homebizy
12-06-2000, 01:57 PM
Mark,

Where did I say it was "all Grbac's fault"? Where?

Its not all his fault. One more time: Grbac is a decent QB who wont take any team anywhere in the playoffs. He dissappears in games that must be won, he doesnt play when he is hurt, and he make to many mental errors. That doesnt mean he is terrible, it means he isnt good enough to advance this team to the next level. He has had plenty of opportunity and has failed. Yes, he has put up a lot of yardage and yes he has been instrumental in their five wins. He has also been instrumental in ALL of their losses including San Diego where he sat out because he was suffering from the sniffles.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:02 PM
Hard Core:

Grbac has been "magnificient"!

You sure about that? How do you explain the following:

Three straight games throwing a pick for a touch down.

Seven points agains the worst defense in football (49ers)

Another 2 minute meltdown against New England

Sitting out San Diego with a "bruised finger"

If he has played "magnificient", the Cheifs wouldnt have lost five in row and out of the playoffs again. Maybe the performance is "magnificient" for a player like Grbac. That, I will agree with. He has been a lot better the last year and half then he had been in his previous six.

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 02:03 PM
Boy, you sure are a stubborn one, huh Packfool. Looking back on 8 losses, I can think of only 3 that Elvis remotely responsible for,NE, Indy & San Fran. You don't know if the guy could or couldn't play vs. SD, just like I don't know if Favre was addicted to pain killers or heroin. Such proclamations only further make you look like a buffoon.

Still waiting for an intelligent, factual response.

BigChiefsFan
12-06-2000, 02:06 PM
Pack--
"Grbac and all his yardage have amounted for five lousy wins. Only one against a team that would make the playoffs if the season ended. Fact is, he pussed out at San Diego, threw a TD pass to the Colts in a winnable game at home, put up 17 points agains a soft Raider defense in a loss, put up 7 points againt the worst defense in the leauge (49ers), and then his gaffes last Monday; two minute drill, pick in the third qtr, and a fumbled snap."

Sounds like you're blaming him to me. If not, why did you bother posting that HE put up 17 points, HE put up 7 points, HE screwed up the Colts game? Was it just to waste space or prove that you can actually do some research?

Do you just post sh!t and forget about it,or are you just too stupid to understand what you are implying?

You can't say a team or player won't do anything in the future. Did you, with all of your knowledge, pick the Rams last year?

Anything can, and usually does, happen.

MM
~~Getting tired of proving Packfan wrong

Go Chiefs
12-06-2000, 02:11 PM
Oh ButtPack - taking my comments out of context - oh how appropriate - you worthless Turd!!!

This is what I said in #113
"But don't come on her telling us that Favre is still the one of old. He sucks and his RECORD and his stats prove it! Yes, at one time he was the best, but so was Reggie White."

Get this trough your roach infested cranium! Brett Favre is having a "mediocre" year, as he did last year. If Grbac sucks, Favre should be kicked out on his sorry arss!

Now, no one here is going to lay the blame of GB's misfortunes alone at Brett's feet. Their D sucks, they have no running back and that coach of theirs (can't even remember the no names' name) obviously is way over his head. I guess Wolf got what he paid for!

WOW - sounds alot like the Chiefs doesn't it.

Back up those flubber lips of yours and tell us how the QB carries his team and how Favre should be released!

Your gradeschool knowledge is shining brightly through that dunce cap your wearing.

Better yet, go find Broncobilly and pick each other's zits!<P>

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:14 PM
Mark,

Is that the best you can do, re-state my facts? C'mon. If you dont agree with me, tell me why, dont just re-state what I already said. You are beginning to sound like Titus and trust me, you dont want that. I eat that guy alive with all his BS.

Like I said, Grbac is a decent QB. But is he going to take this team to the next level? I seriously doubt it. You have seen what he does under pressure. You have seen how successful he has been in leading the Chiefs. There are teams out there that have horrible defenses that still succeed. The Rams for instance. Denver always had a chance with Elway. Ditto for Miami. Look at the Raiders. Their defense isnt that good. But their QBs dont let them lose. Grbac didnt do much to get the team back in the game the other night. It took a turnover, a bomb, and a couple of passes to Gonzalez. Other than that, I thought he was average. And when the team needed him most, he pulled a Grbac: Throwing for five yards when 11 were needed. 8 year veterans dont make those kind of mistakes. If you want to stay mediocre, he is your guy.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 02:16 PM
LOL@Ken.

Everyone here knows what you're about. That BS you refer to is the stuff you're spreading, not me.

Pretty sad when you cant recognize your own BS.

12-06-2000, 02:17 PM
Why do you guys even bother?

Under Ken's "perfect" logic, Dan Marino was only average. He was 8-9 in the playoffs, and failed to make the playoffs in 8 of his 17 years as a starter.

Warren Moon, despite being one of the best quarterbacks ever, is a cast-off.

Jim McMahon is great however. His team went to the playoffs a whopping 10 times in his 14 year career, and he was a member of two SuperBowl team.

**** OFF Ken...TEAMs win SuperBowls

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:17 PM
Wis Chief,

Do me a favor and re read your last post. Doesnt sound like a lot of intellegience in there, does it. That is one hell of a post. If I didnt know any better, that post sounds like some cocky little 4th grader that the only way people listen to him is when he ridicules somebody else.

Nice work!

Oh yea, you state very clearly that "favre sucks"

3 time MVP in the prime of his career sucks. Brilliant!

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 02:18 PM
The only person you eat alive Packfool is is your boyfriend, BroncoFan.Saying that the Raiders defense isn't that good and their QB doesn't lose the game has just 1 problem: the Raiders have a running game to fall back on. If the chiefs win, it's because Elvis wins it for them.

Still looking for an intelligent response.....

Phobia
12-06-2000, 02:20 PM
I cant believe it...Packfan just compared EG to Elway.

What a complete dumba$$. EG is no Elway, Packfan.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:21 PM
htismaque,

The only point I am trying to make is that Grbac is a decent QB that wont take any team anywhere in the playoffs. What dont you understand about that? Usually, you pick things up. Not this time. Let me remind you: The Chiefs have not won a playoff game since Joe Montana. Grbac, has NEVER won a playoff game. NEVER! He is 31 freakin years old! He is quarterbacking a 5-8 team. He pissed away a chance at a win the other night. Not against a powerhouse, but against a 3-8 team! He sat out the week before with a bruised pinky! Give me a break!

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 02:21 PM
Yeah, but IMO, neither is Favre.

12-06-2000, 02:22 PM
He's back-pedalling now...go figure

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Like I said, Grbac is a decent QB. But is he going to take this team to the next level? I seriously doubt it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Grbac is a decent QB who wont take any team anywhere in the playoffs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You sounded so sure of yourself before, but now you "doubt it". Come on Ken, you're outmatched, even by the guy spewing "4th grade" comments...

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 02:24 PM
NEWSFLASH!! NEWSFLASH!! Take time out Packfool and go kiss Broncofan buh-bye for us on his farewell post.

12-06-2000, 02:24 PM
Packfan,

To WIN a playoff game, you must first GET there...if you insist that this responsibility belongs to Grbac, it shows you're lack of understanding of the game of football.

Of course, you probably think Phil Simms is a great quarterback. Doesn't matter that Lawrence Taylor was on the other side of the ball.

It's a TEAM sport Ken, and you won't admit it, but of course, I wouldn't expect anything less from you than to accuse ME of not listening.

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:25 PM
Titus,

You know why you cant believe I compared Elway to Elvis?? Because I didnt. Get the **** out of your eyes and read my post again.

Quit being so lazy. Try to comprehend and talk intellegiently, PLEASE.

I appreciate your spunk, but you are reaching yet again!

Phobia
12-06-2000, 02:26 PM
Parker: Read posts #124 and 125...Ken's playing both sides of the fence.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 02:27 PM
Packfan: I read it and you did... Maybe you should re-read it. Of course, it's been proven on this thread alone that you post sh!t and then ignore it when called on it.

Just hear to stir the sh!t...

I invite anyone else to comment on that post to see who agrees that you did compare EG to Elway.

There are teams out there that have horrible defenses that still succeed. The Rams for instance. Denver always had a chance with Elway. Ditto for Miami. Look at the Raiders. Their defense isnt that good. But their QBs dont let them lose.

[This message has been edited by KCTitus (edited 12-06-2000).]

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 02:28 PM
Careful Titus,
He said he eats you alive(post 135).

Or is that not what he said. It's hard to tell after a while.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:29 PM
htsmaque,

Grbac had Derrick Thomas and didnt squat with him. A QB cant do it alone. But he does have the ball in his hands every offensive play. Grbac and Grbac alone cost them a game the other night because he is to stupid to engineer a 2 minute drill in a hostile environment. He also cost them a game in San Diego because he refuses to play hurt. IMO, he is a dumb QB who is also a wuss. That doesnt add up to leadership. If he were winning playoff games, I would have no argument. But he is not even taking his team to the playoffs. The Chiefs are getting ready to dish out a lot of money and I think its a horrible move.

BigChiefsFan
12-06-2000, 02:30 PM
Pack--
You ask me to tell you where you said it was all Grbac's fault. I quote your words that, in essence, say it was HE that only scored 7 points, HE that only scored 17. What the f*ck do you want? You ask me to quote you and, when I do, you act like I just pulled it out of my a$$? My f*cking god, man! Do you pay any attention at all to what you post?

Why do I disagree with you?
1. You continue to think Elvis has started for 8 years. He hasn't. It's been four. Standing on a sideline teaches nothing.
2. You continually bring up the fact that Grbac can't do this or that, saying how HE lost the games for us. When I (and others) say its a team sport, you say agree. So which is it, f*ckstick? Can't be both.
3. Your team sucks just as bad this year. No one, and I mean no one, who roots for a team that's unsuccessful has any right to rip any other team for the same.

Pay more attention to what you type. I did what you asked, then you act like you have no clue why I did what I did.

And being Titus can't be all bad...we went to the same high school. That's where they taught us how to copy and paste. I guess yours just taught you how to talk from your a$$.

MM
~~Is there no stopping Packfan's insanity?

[This message has been edited by Mark M (edited 12-06-2000).]

Phobia
12-06-2000, 02:30 PM
You do have to be careful with Ken, Mi, he'll deny something he posts immediately after posting it.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:32 PM
Hey dumb *uck (that means you Titus),

How is that comparing Elvis to Elway??? Fact is, its not. You do everything possible to make yourself look stupid.

Earth to Titus: I already know your dumb, quit proving it!

Go Chiefs
12-06-2000, 02:33 PM
double - sorry

[This message has been edited by WisChief (edited 12-06-2000).]

Phobia
12-06-2000, 02:34 PM
That's what is so funny about you Ken, you talk out of your a$$ and then blame it on someone else.

Do you think as you type or just put down some sh!t and think no one's going to call you on it.

I think we all know who's proving themself to be a dumb *uck and it's not me.

Go Chiefs
12-06-2000, 02:35 PM
Damnit Ken - wake up!!

BRETT FAVRE SUCKS!!! He is not in his prime - he is past it. If he is in his prime now, what was it when he was winning the SB and winning MVP's.

Look, you idiot - it's a comparison to EG. You rant and rave about Elvis and your lover boy Brett is not getting his team there either - you are truely amazing.

BTW - did the dunce cap thing strike a nerve? You must have wore one in 4th grade - huh? I bet you took some royal arss whipp'n in 4th grade huh. Or was it in 12th grade at the hands of a 4th grader

Tribal Warfare
12-06-2000, 02:36 PM
hey fudge pack fan, exactly how many years has grbac started? i'm not sure but i think its three years. just a quick question, how many times did farve go to the playoffs in his first three years?????
you ****in dumbass

------------------
~R.I.P. Tupac Shakur~

Dr. Red
12-06-2000, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Careful Titus,
He said he eats you alive(post 135). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wouldn't worry about that. I'm still shivering over the mental image of him 'appreciating' your SPUNK. No matter how well he appreciates it, I'd wash the sheets anyway.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:40 PM
Mark,

Obviously Titus skipped a few years in high school. He is bad, just read his posts. Plus, you ask him a questions and he just ignores it. I think he is just to stupid to reply when he is put on the spot. Kind of like Elvis.

As far as having a "right", thats crap. I dont care if the Packers are 0-16. This is a Chiefs board and I am talking about the Chiefs. I dont need "a right" to talk on this board. That comment is assinine.

It is a team game, but the QB has a hell of lot more responsibiliby than all other players. He takes most of the credit for wins and most of the credit for loses. I am not sure why this wont sink in for you. When I say "he lossed" I mean he played bad and was the main reason the team lost. Grbac was terrific against the Rams and he was the main reason the Chiefs won. He has been more bad than good this year and I have cited examples. Just putting up yardage doesnt alway equate to great quarterbacking. Just watch the replay of the New England game. A crucial interception, a fumbled snap, an ill advised QB keeper, and a short throw on the last play of the game. He did all of that and every time it was huge. Deny that for me now. Put a spin on that. Make those negatives into positive. Titus will, you can bet on it.

12-06-2000, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>because he is to stupid to engineer a 2 minute drill in a hostile environment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So the Denver game earlier this season, or the Oakland game two years ago with the pass to Andre Rison, or the...nevermind, I proved my point...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>He also cost them a game in San Diego because he refuses to play hurt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

St. Louis, San Diego last year...oh, forget it...

Ken, Derrick Thomas (God rest his soul) was NEVER the complete player that LT was. Great pash rusher, yes. Run stopper, NOT EVER. Try again.


------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:44 PM
There is a reason why Grbac wasnt a starter prior to the Chiefs:

HE ISNT THAT GOOD!

Yea, Steve Young was there, but I didnt see any team knocking down San Frans door to trade for Grbac. In fact, the chiefs were the only team to make an offer to Elvis. What does that tell you? The niners had an aging Steve Young and didnt bother to keep one of its own, who would have taken less money to stay. San Fran has seem Grbac enough, what did the mayor call him after another blunder? " a waste to humanity". That might be a little strong, but after Monday night, thats exactly what I was thinking. Actually, the last minute of the game, I am not sure what was funnier, that or David Letterman.

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 02:45 PM
Now you understand our frustration, Parker. Trying to teach Packfool by osmosis can really take it's toll.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 02:48 PM
Ken: if you have questions, ask me. the only question you have ever asked me is whether Carl/KC should cut EG or pay him the bonus.

You conveniently left out the obvious option that will happen in reality.

Most of your other questions are so patently absurd that they dont require a reply.

As far as not 'answering' posts, you are the KING, Pal. You get called on all sorts of BS you post and never respond.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:48 PM
htsmaque,

The Raider game was given on a platter by one Jeff George. As I recall, Grbac and the Chiefs were totally dominated until George pissed the game away.

Yes, Taylor was much better. But the Chiefs have had some formidable defenses while Grbac has been here and he hasnt done ****.

BigChiefsFan
12-06-2000, 02:51 PM
Pack--
If you want to come in here and make some valid commentary on the Chiefs, I have no problem with that. My point was that if your team sucks, what right do you have to rip another team? Pot calling the kettle black, as the saying goes. So no, its not assinine, it's pointing out the hypocrisy of your posts.

And I agree that the QB is the most important position on the field. What I took offense with was your posts that IMPLIED that the only reason the Chiefs are so sh!tty is because of Grbac. Is he the best in the league? Hell no. Is he the best QB the Chiefs ever had or will have? Again, no. And I agree the guy makes some dumba$$ mistakes and is mediocre a lot of times. But what I don't agree with is the assertion you make that Grbac is either:
1. the Chiefs main problem (not anywhere close); and
2. will never do anything.

EG may or may not take his team to the SB, but how the hell am I supposed to know that? He has gotten better every year he has started. He finally has the respect of his teamates on offense. He's throwing and playing with confidence.

If judging a QB is as easy as you make it out to be, why did no one else want Warner? Why did Marino get drafted 28th while Blackledge and Eason went before him? It's hit and miss, and you can't tell which is which in a few seasons. If he regresses next year, then I'll agree with you. But until then, I'll give EG the benefit of the doubt.

MM
~~Patience is the key<BR>

12-06-2000, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>There is a reason why Grbac wasnt a starter prior to the Chiefs:

HE ISNT THAT GOOD!

Yea, Steve Young was there, but I didnt see any team knocking down San Frans door to trade for Grbac. In fact, the chiefs were the only team to make an offer to Elvis. What does that tell you? The niners had an aging Steve Young and didnt bother to keep one of its own, who would have taken less money to stay. San Fran has seem Grbac enough, what did the mayor call him after another blunder? " a waste to humanity". That might be a little strong, but after Monday night, thats exactly what I was thinking. Actually, the last minute of the game, I am not sure what was funnier, that or David Letterman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you talking about MVP Rich Gannon? Let's see:

There is a reason why Gannon wasn't a starter prior to the Raiders:
HE ISNT THAT GOOD!

Yea, Jeff George was there, but I didnt see any team knocking down Kansas City's door to trade for Gannon. In fact, the Raiders were the only team to make an offer to Rich.

You were comparing them earlier, care to continue? If so, I can look up Gannon's career playoff numbers and show you that his record is worse than Grbac's. He's been a backup for 3/4 of his career as opposed to Grbac's 1/2. Give it a rest, Ken.

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

homebizy
12-06-2000, 02:56 PM
Chief fans,

Pay attention now, especially you Titus.

Grbac is a decent quarterback. Here me Gregg, a DECENT quarterback. Thats my opinion. My opinion is based the fact that he has put up some good numbers the two seasons. He is not a GOOD QB because he isnt a leader, continually makes poor decisions, doesnt play hurt, and hasnt played well enough to win the meaningful games in the past four years. Yes, he did play well against Oakland in the last game last year. Thats it. Other than that, all he has really done is made a lot of money and broken a lot of hearts. He provided some great comedy on Monday night (dan fouts was besides himself with laughter), something that Chiefs fans didnt find very funny. I have seen to much of that side of Grbac that IMO, he will never put it all together and lead this team to anything beyond the regular season. So far, I am right. You guys are NOT wrong in stating some of Grbac's credentials. Undoubtedly, he is having his best year. My fear is that HE thinks he is worth the 10 million and the Chiefs will resign him for that. I fear this because I think he wont be anything else but a decent regular season QB.

Frustration from Monday has me ripping him way more than I normally do. Those brainfarts Monday night pushed me over the top.

Dr. Red
12-06-2000, 02:57 PM
'98, '99, '00 - tell me true, which of these Defenses were 'formidable?'

giving up 44 to NE, 38 to SD, and 35 to Denv in 98? 41 to Oak in '99? 49 to Oak and 30 to the lowly Pats in '00?

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 03:01 PM
Mark M,
I have yet to see any valid commentary. Just to let you know exactly what your up against, take a look at this from #164:

Yes, (Lawrence)Taylor was much better(than Derrick Thomas), but the Chiefs have had some formidable defenses while Grbac has been here and he hasnt done ****.

Last week, I said that Gun was a great defensive coordinator, and Packfool said that Gun's defenses here "were nothing special."

It's nearly impossible to win an argument with someone so ignorant.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 03:03 PM
htsmaque,

Good post, challenging one.

Most fans would agree that Gannon deserved to be the starter over Grbac when he was here a few years ago. Allegedly, Peterson wanted to prove that Grbac was the right choice and insisted that he continue to start. I didnt think much of Gannon back then either, but I certainly thought he was better than Grbac. I am as shocked as most people with what Gannon has been able to do this year. You mention George, Gannon, and Grbac. At the time of the QB merry-go-round that the Raiders and Chiefs had, nobody thought anything of any of those guys. Clearly, Gannon is the best. Grbac is leading a team thats 5-8 and George is a backup. Everyone (except Al davis) has been wrong about Gannon. Coaches, QBs, General Managers are judged by wins and loses. Gannon has propered, Grbac has not.

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 03:05 PM
Propered?

DoktorSmith
12-06-2000, 03:07 PM
A bit of correction, if you please.

Gannon has prospered in a system designed for his game. Short passes with the scrambling option open. Gannon prospered with a good HB in the backfield.

Grbac has prospered in a system designed for no one. An abrupt evolution from smashmouth to the vertical game. Grbac has prospered with no rushing game whatsoever.

With this distinction in mind, please continue the debate.

xoxo~
gaz
keeping it real.<BR>

bishop_74
12-06-2000, 03:09 PM
Seems like the Supreme Court intervened and clarified the rules of oral arguments.

Good points gaz.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 03:09 PM
Mi chief fan,

In 97, they had a very good defense. They alway have been opportunistic in that they create turnovers giving the offense extra chances. There defense has been getting progressively worse. My point about Thomas was only to counteract the point someone made about lawerence Taylor and the Giants. The Chiefs had a hall of fame player on defense as did Simms.

BigChiefsFan
12-06-2000, 03:14 PM
MI--
Yeah, I'm beginning to realize this.

What saddens me is that my wife and her whole family are Packers fans. They are very intelligent, very loyal and talk little (if any) smack. This guy makes Packfans everywhere look bad. Much like Denise does us Chiefs fans.

MM
~~Giving up hope for Packfan<BR>

Baby Lee
12-06-2000, 03:14 PM
They were pretty decent in 95 too, and not all that bad in 98(except for a couple games), it was merely to illustrate how you try to play on both sides of the fence. Seems like your motive is to stir sh!t, not make an intelligent point.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 03:15 PM
Ken: after 47 tries, you might get your 'opinion' right.

Is a 'Decent' QB better or worse than a 'Good' QB? If worse, how does a 'decent' QB put up 'Good' numbers.

You have explained your opinion on it before, so be careful about your answer.

homebizy
12-06-2000, 03:41 PM
If I have explained it before, why must I re-explain it??

2+2=4. Pay attention!

Phobia
12-06-2000, 03:44 PM
Because you have changed your stance on EG as a 'decent' qb from your earlier posts, so Im assuming you've changed your criteria, otherwise you're just contradicting ourself.

No big suprise there, but I want to see you squiggle some more.

Phobia
12-06-2000, 03:48 PM
I'll wait while you go back and find it.

12-06-2000, 05:23 PM
HAHAHA...gotcha here Ken...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Clearly, Gannon is the best. Grbac is leading a team thats 5-8 and George is a backup. Everyone (except Al davis) has been wrong about Gannon. Coaches, QBs, General Managers are judged by wins and loses. Gannon has propered, Grbac has not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if that in bold is true, how is Gannon better than Grbac. Gannon's record as a starter: 39-35 (53%)regular season, ZERO post-season appearances in 13 years. Grbac's record as a starter: 25-16 (61%), 0-1 in the postseason.

Quarterbacks "are judged by wins and losses"

I guess that means you agree Grbac is better? Or do you need to readjust your logic again?

PS: If W-L ratio is so damn important, why doesn't anybody list that in the player bios?
Hint: It's not...

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

KCTitus
12-06-2000, 09:02 PM
Wow! Nothing like facts to run him off. LMAO

JOhn
12-06-2000, 09:08 PM
Packfan,

"What is an H Back and where does he line up?"

Luz
the question that stumped mr football...

Clint in Wichita
12-06-2000, 09:38 PM
This thread is too damn long for me to check, but remember, with us, Gannon was 11-8 as a starter in his 4 years here. During that 4 year span we were 42-22. So when Gannon did not start, we were 31-14. Thus, we had a BETTER shot at winning without Gannon. Another thing Gannon backers need to think about regarding the playoff game against Denver is that during the regular season win streak, we averaged about 150+ yards rushing a game and the D was giving us short fields. Against Denver, not only did we not have a ground game, the D made no significant plays all day. And on top of that, Gannon can't beat Denver, he is like 1-7 against Denver, including the monday night meltdown game. The 1 win was thanks to a Stoyo miracle kick. So there is no logical reason to think that Gannon would have beaten the Broncos. He may have gotten beaten worse. But it is easy to say that he would win after the game is over.

So yeah, Gannon WAS judged by wins and losses here. He was a .500 quarterback. Let's look at this another way. Was our former pro bowl quarterback Steve Bono a winner based on his win-loss percentage?<P>

Go Chiefs
12-06-2000, 09:42 PM
Nice one Wolf! :D

He'll spin it outa control though, something to the tune of "carl sucks, elvis sucks and chester is fat and hasty is old and moon is a gramps, blah, blah, blah,...

You get my point...<P>

egonzo
12-06-2000, 10:23 PM
Can Gannon make that throw to DA/...You know the one that drops right in his hands at full speed...Forty yards down the field? NOT!

We might have a crappy record, but watching Grbac hit that bomb is a thing of beauty.

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 03:09 AM
He also failed to mention Gannon's forgetting what down it was this weekend against Pittsburgh, and the, shall we say, questionable passes prior to that.

And he has the nerve to call Elvis dumb.

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 12-07-2000).]

Clint in Wichita
12-07-2000, 03:55 AM
No one remembers this because they love Gannon so much, but what about him taking the sack on 4th down in Denver to end the game in 1998?

Dave Lane
12-07-2000, 06:12 AM
On that last drive against Denver in 98, Gannon was getting blitzed every down and had no time to throw so it's hard to blame him for that sack. I do remember Gannon getting bailed out earlier in the drive by a questionable pass interference call on 3rd and long.

------------------
It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 07:54 AM
Oh where oh where has our little Packfool gone?

Where oh where could he be? http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Shootr
12-07-2000, 07:55 AM
He hasn't woke up from his cave yet. http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 07:59 AM
How's life in Columbus? We got a little snowstorm up here.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 08:09 AM
Chief fans on this board showing their true football intellect:

Grbac 5-8

Gannon 10-3

Who is a better QB according to Chief fans??

Grbac.

Go figure. Peterson accepts mediocrity. So do the Chiefs fans on this board. Grbac makes four gaffes in the 2nd half (int, fumbled snap, QB keeper, short pass to Gonzo) and the fans wonder why the team is 5-8. "It has to be Jimmy Raye or Mike Stock. No way it could be the players. No way! Its all coaching"

(paraphrasing some of the idiots on this board)

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 08:15 AM
WELL WELL, it lives. We thought proving you wrong 100+ times on this post was quite enough. Guess when you're dumb as a donkey and twice as stubborn, your just gluttoned for punishment.

See post 181, if you really wanna talk about wins & losses.

BTW, who says we accept mediocrity? We just have enough cognitive ability to see that the problem doesn't lie with the QB.

Oh yeah, did I mention you're a MORON ?

homebizy
12-07-2000, 08:17 AM
Mi Chief,

Yea, I know that the problem doesnt lie with the QB, it lies with the coaches. You guys have told me that over and over. The 5-8 Chiefs have plenty of talent. The problem is that Jimmy Raye, Mike Stock, and Kurt Shottenheimer are stupid.

Yea, now its starting to make sense. Give this team Vince Lombardi and Grbac would NEVER make those gaffes they did the other night.

DoktorSmith
12-07-2000, 08:20 AM
Once more I feel the need to correct a faulty assertion:

Gannon is not 10-3. The Raiders are 10-3. The Raiders with Gruden instead of Gunther, Wheatley instead of Bennett, Kauffman instead of Anders.

Grbac is not 5-8. The Chiefs are 5-8. The Chiefs with Raye and RBbC and a severe case of the drops.

This line of argument is hopelessly flawed. Please ignore it and proceed with a reasoned debate concerning the relative virtues of apples and oranges.

xoxo~
gaz
still keeping it real.<BR>

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 08:23 AM
Give this team to Vince Lombardi, and the QB wouldn't have been in the position they were. Apparently, you don't watch the chiefs, you just read the articles. Anyone who's watched them would know that the simple acts of 1) Not being too predictable in playcalling 2)calling a balanced attack of runs/passes and 3)ussing 20th century technology to study gamefilm.

Dangit Packfool, I wish we didn't have to explain every single facet of the game to you.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 08:23 AM
Gaz,

My bad, a quarterback has as much influence on a game as a punter. I shouldnt label QBs by wins and loses. Thats wrong. Its a total team game with each player having the same importantance.

My fault. You are correct. Grbac is NOT 5-8, the Chiefs are.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 08:26 AM
MI Chief,

Yea, I just cant get it. Had the Chiefs had a balanced attack and some better play calling by their coaches, Grbac would never have fumbled the snap or been forced to throw the ball to Gonzo, or tried that QB keeper with a minute to go. Had they had better play calling, no way Grbac would have sat out the San Diego game with a "bruised finger". If Raye would have called better plays, no way they would have only put up seven points against the worst defense in the league (49ers).

You are right. The only thing this team lacks is creative play calling.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
12-07-2000, 08:30 AM
Ahhh... The circular discussion from hel1 lives another day.

JOhn
12-07-2000, 08:33 AM
Hey Packfan,

"What is an H Back and where does he line up?"

Luz
nostalgic today...<P>

BigChiefsFan
12-07-2000, 08:35 AM
Pack--
Good to see you STILL don't read what others post. Instead, you have your mind made up and no facts, statistics or simple logic can change that.

By denying that a balanced attack can change the game, perhaps not putting Elvis in that situation to begin with, shows just how little you really know about football.

Too bad for you I have nothing to do at work today. I guess myself and others will have to spend our day showing you more facts that you will just ignore. Perhaps you will pull your head out of your a$$ after a while. Of course, with your past history on this board, it seems to me like you enjoy the atmosphere up there.

MM
~~Has nothing better to do.

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 08:35 AM
Wow Packfool,
In your sarchastic rantings, I think you're starting to see our point. The only TD drive of the game vs. San Fran: 7 runs, 6 passes. No other drive had more than 3 runs.

Hmmmmmmm....... still not sure you're bright enough to understand.

DoktorSmith
12-07-2000, 08:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Grbac 5-8

Gannon 10-3<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Its a total team game with each player having the same importantance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Packfan, somewhere between those two ridiculous extremes is a valid point. When you tire of overzealous hyperbole, settle down and find the valid point that you believe in and then we can all have a discussion about the relative value of Gannon Vs Grbac.

Until then, you are simply being antagonistic and deserve the dismissive responses you receive.

xoxo~
gaz
not holding his breath.<P>

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 08:46 AM
Gaz,
Stop using them there big words. Packfool has trouble deciphering them.

He's looking in his thesaurus right now.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 10:06 AM
Chief fans,

Do you really think Elvis Grbac will lead this team to a Super Bowl?

He cant even get a playoff win, let alone take this team to the Super Bowl. And the Chiefs are ready to pay this guy 10 million in February. Chiefs will guarantee themselves mediocrity for years to come if they resign him.

Phobia
12-07-2000, 10:14 AM
Yo, spunky...I think I'll borrow a line from you and say. I dont know if EG can lead this team to the SB.

Is it possible with this current team? No.
Is it possible with KC? Dont know.
Is it possible at all? I Dont know.

KC is not 'ready' to pay him a 10M bonus. It's common knowledge that this same bonus was due last year and Carl and EG renegoitated the contract. The same thing will happen here.

F. Gump
12-07-2000, 10:14 AM
Show us a quote by Peterson, Hunt or anyone else in the Chiefs organization that says they are ready to pay Elvis his $10 million roster bonus. Why wouldn’t they renegotiate as they have done in the past? This point has been brought up several times and you continue to ignore it.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
12-07-2000, 10:16 AM
Bob Dole usually just ignores you, Ken, but good lord.

You keep spouting the same crap that absolutely nobody on here is saying.

No reasonably sane individual believes that the Chiefs are going to pay Elvis a $10 million roster bonus, and you're the only one that keeps inferring they will. It happens every year with a lot of players (but of course you already know that).

Nobody here is "satisfied with mediocrity" as you keep stating. Bob Dole hasn't read where anyone on here is happy with this season. (But of course, you already know that, too.)

And the "he can't even get a playoff win" mantra is worn out, and not even an issue, since we can't seem to get to the f#cking playoffs. I'm tired of hearing it the same way you're tired of hearing your girlfriend tell you that you'll never have children because you couldn't get it up last week.

Geez...give it a rest, or at least come up with something new.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 12:55 PM
Why wouldnt Elvis demand the 10 million? He has put up the key numbers (according to you guys). Arent the cards stacked in his favor? With the league full of bad QBs, shouldnt Elvis demand that the Chiefs honor the 10 million dollar agreement? I think he will and I think Peterson will pay him. Why not? He paid Dan Williams after sitting out a year. He paid Chester top dollar even though he has a long history of laziness. And may favorite, he gave Carlton "inactive" Gray a multimillion dollar deal after he was cut twice!

Grbac demands and Carl pays the 10 million. Come february, I will remind you guys of this. This will insure medicocrity.

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 01:06 PM
Great. Cut & paste(if you can learn how). I know at least 1 of us will. Now let's move on to another subject so that you can change your position again.

Phobia
12-07-2000, 01:07 PM
obviously the definition of 'renegotiation' escapes Ken.

Why are you arguing that EG will get paid the 10 Million? Answer: for something to bash Carl with.

Will it happen? It didnt happen last year and there's no indication it will happen this year.

Could EG receive the compensation in another form? yes, see the term 'renegotiation' for an idea.

It's not unprecendented for a QB or WR or other highly paid player to re-do his contract in order for the team he is with to A)get under the cap and B)sign other FA talent.

Come February? Dude, you cant remember what you said 10 minutes ago let alone remember some asinine assertion that you made 6 months ago.

12-07-2000, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Do you really think Elvis Grbac will lead this team to a Super Bowl?

He cant even get a playoff win, let alone take this team to the Super Bowl.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

0-1 in the playoffs...Gannon's been in the league 13 years, 7 as a starter and HAS NEVER BEEN THERE...

but he's 10-3 this year, so I guess he's better...

------------------
Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

Luzap
12-07-2000, 01:11 PM
Damn Ken.....

You are almost frustrating enough to wanna make me punch my computer.

1)If you REALLY think that Carl is gonna pay Elvis that $10 million, then you have less smarts than we give you credit for here.

2)You take a comment made about the lack of quality QB's in the league(I have made it myself several times)and twist it to try and make an illogical point. I doubt you truly believe any of the crap you posted in that last post, but just did it to yank chains.

3) Sometimes the stuff you post almost makes me believe what a friend of mine from KC said in passing. He said that he truly believes that either Carl or one of the people who works closely with him comes onto this board just to have a little fun with all of us fans by taunting us with these inane outbursts.(I realize this accusation will either make me a sleuth or really piss you off for thinking you are Carl or one of his friends.)

mark
***********

------------------
KilGore is a noun, not a verb..

BigChiefsFan
12-07-2000, 01:16 PM
Pack--
Come February, your dumba$$ will have been proven wrong another hundred or so times, so I won't hold my breath. You are entitled to your opinion, but you fail to offer any way the Chiefs could reasonably afford that $10 million.

What you don't realize is that Carl couldn't pay Elvis' bonus if he WANTED to...they don't have space under the cap without cutting all but like 7 players. Carl has made some dumb moves, but this will not be one of them. The NFL won't allow it, not Carl or Lamar.

However, you're right about Williams and McGlockton. Grey, on the other hand, is ONLY making a bit over $2 million (sarcasm). Way too much, but he and his salary will be gone before the last whislte blows this year. Super-stupidity on Carl's part.

Come February, you'll be proven wrong...again.

MM
~~Marking his calendar, setting a date to feed Packfan his crow.

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 01:17 PM
The more I read Packfools posts, the more I believe Carl & Elvis had a threesome with his wife.

Stuckinbama
12-07-2000, 01:26 PM
Packfan,
Well, we finally agree on a few things. Actually, we agree on many issues concerning Carl, especially when it comes to Chet, Williams and Gray. *grin* Carl dod cave when it comes to Williams and Gray represented a panic move. The Chet issue is not as cut and dry. He is overpaid for his production, but remember Marty really wanted him also. Marty's part in that deal should not be overlooked. True, Grbac does have the edge in these negotiations, however I bet the $10 Million bonus is viewed as "tongue in cheek by both sides". Grbac knows he will not get it - just like last year. He might get some of it and IMHO, he does deserve some of it. <P>

homebizy
12-07-2000, 01:32 PM
Mark,

"eating crow again"? What have I been wrong on? I told you before the seasons that Gunter was a crap coach. Now everybody agrees. I told this team would win 9 games. It looks like it will be 8 or 9. I told you before the season that this defense isnt that good. It isnt. I told you that they wont win a playoff game this, and they wont.

The guys that should eat crow are the ones that were talking about the Chiefs "running the table" after the Rams game.

BTW, the ten million could be use as a signing bonus which would be paid, but not totally count against the cap. It would be prorated over the term of the contract. I shouldnt have to explain this to you. Titus, yes, but you are better than that.

Grbac will get his money. Either from the Chiefs or some other desperate team. I just hope your here so I can put it right back in your face.

The McGlockton, Dan Williams, Carlton Gray signings were out of desperation, not logic. Grbac will be the same. With a losing season, the front office will be terrified that "the NFLs greatest fans" will not buy season tickets next season. They have abandoned the team before, they will do it again.

Stuckinbama
12-07-2000, 01:35 PM
PF,
You mean 7 0r 8 games right? It is impossible for the Chiefs to win 9 now - unless they count inner squad scrimmages. *grin*

Baby Lee
12-07-2000, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>I told this team would win 9 games. It looks like it will be 8 or 9.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nuff said.

Phobia
12-07-2000, 01:40 PM
LOL @ Ken...Everyone here is talking about the 10 Million roster bonus and when it's pointed out that he's wrong he suddently squiggles.

Ken: I see you've been over at the other BB. How's the wife?

So you think KC's going to win out eh? With a loser at QB? And Williams and Glock on the field? KC's going to win out?

No dont answer, I know what you're going to say.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 01:44 PM
Mark,

I am not trying to piss anyone off here. Stir things up, maybe. If Elvis doesnt self distruct again, I probably dont rip on him. However, he has done things like he did Monday one too many times for me. I have had it with him. I am trying to get someone to agree that Elvis isnt the answer for the Chiefs. You guys see big numbers from him and equate that to elite status as a quarterback. Obviously, I dont see it that way. First of all, most of the guys on here dont see the QB postion as I see it: By far, the most important on the field. It is clear that Carl doesnt see it my way either judging by the QB rotation he had for most of the 90s. So when I share with you guys Elvis' win/loss numbers along with the amount of playoff wins he has, you guys jump me. I look at Elvis in the same way I look at Jeff George. George can dazzle you at times, has a cannon, and looks good most of the time, but then he does things that just kill his team. I see the same thing in Elvis. He hasnt EVER engineered a playoff win and is the leader of a 5-8 team. To me, those are BY FAR, the most important numbers when it comes to the Quarterback.

Obviously, most of you guys dissagree.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 01:52 PM
Titus,

Dont know what you are talking about. Apparently you were ignored on the other board so now you decided to chirp here. Great! I can teach you more about football. Now, remember what I taught you yesterday? Elvis DID play in a playoff game prior to the coming to the Chiefs. (You had no idea of this. And his team lost thanks in part to his three interceptions. Now remember this so we dont have to rehash it again.

Dave Lane
12-07-2000, 01:53 PM
I agree w/Packfan. It's way past time for Elvis to go. It's time to get a real QB, not some reject backup QB from the 49ers. He's got some big stats this year largely in part to the fact that we don't run the ball. Elvis will never take this team anywhere. I say draft a QB and/or possible get someone like Brad Johnson or Trent Green here next year along with a RB.

------------------
It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

BigChiefsFan
12-07-2000, 02:00 PM
Pack--
I'm well aware of the cap being pro-rated. However, Grbac had, I believe, a five or six year deal. He's been here four years. That means that bonus would only be spread out over 2 years (someone correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have the time I usually have to check). With his base salary of around $4 millionish, added to the $5 million for each year, and take into account that the cap will be around $60 millionish, that's 1/6th of the total cap locked up to Elvis.

Carl had made some ignorant moves (trust me, I hate the guy). But I don't think he'll screw up this one.

And I understand you're frustration. Trust me. However, you're point about the carousel of QBs in this town explains why we all are willing to give the guy a shot. He's had one try in the playoffs with the Chiefs. ONE. Favre didn't take his team to the SB his first time, did he? No.

We are willing to give the guy one more year. I'm sorry that pisses you off so much. I just don't see why you rip on Grbac when there are SO MANY other things about this team to rip on. The guy has had a good year considering all that has destructed around him. If he regresses next year, cut him, trade him whatever. But I'm willing to be patient.

And I never picked the Chiefs to win more than 8 games . . . I think. Who has the predictions from earlier this year? Titus?

MM
~~Understands Packfans frustration, but thinks he's venting about the wrong thing.

Dr. Red
12-07-2000, 02:01 PM
Let me see if I get this straight. grbac isn't as good as we think he is [mediocre, not good, certainly a stupid, complaining wussy], but if we don't pay him a lot more, someone else who better recognizes the worth of his talent [or is in a better position to accomodate it, or is just desperate for a quality QB, whatever], we'll lose him?

He isn't worth what we pay him, but we better pay him a lot more if we want to keep him, huh?

Phobia
12-07-2000, 02:06 PM
Packfan: you didnt 'teach' me anything yesterday. I believe we've covered that discussion, but if you want to revisit it, we can.

I knew EG played in a Playoff game in SF, but you had stated that EG did not have the ability to lead this team to the playoffs. I responded by saying that he's only had one chance with this team.

The only thing obvious is your ability to ignore facts and words. Maybe it's a reading problem you have. If so, Im sorry.

I also know that Green Bay won that playoff game not because of what Elvis or what Farve did or didnt do but rather what Desmond Howard did. You really should be thankful for Desmond Howard, he gave you all a SB victory in 1996.

You cant teach me about football. You have offered me insights in how to be a complete dumba$$, however.<BR>

Stuckinbama
12-07-2000, 02:07 PM
I honestly believe that the KC coaching staff is partly responsible for not mentoring Grbac to handle "pressure" situations. Shoot, I'd probably be a SPAZ also if the game was on the line and I had to turn to Raye and Gun MaGoo for guidence! IMHO, I've gone on record many times as saying this staff has hindered Grbac's development. He should be better prepared to handle the pressure. They took the leash of him this year out of despiration because the Chiefs could not run the football, and he put up big passing numbers. The fact is you can't coach an "arm" so to speak - you can coach "situations" and this is where the Chiefs LAME A$$ staff has FAILED. No doubt Grbac has the physical tools - he's lacking the "smarts" upstairs which I attribute to a lack of coaching. It is the very reason why his best season as a pro is virtually meaningless. With his stats, he should have made more of an impact not only on the Chiefs, but on the whole league. Also, even IF the Chiefs get a legit RB - little would change if the same LAME A$$ coaching staff is retained.

Phobia
12-07-2000, 02:12 PM
Mark M: Packfan offered no W/L predictions before the beginning of the season. He did however predict that KC would finish 4th in the divison for the following reasons:

Tounge loss will hurt, only one playmaker, poor coaching, aging team, inconsistent QB

He got 1 of 5.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 02:13 PM
Grbac is a lot like Peterson: Just good enough to keep you hoping. What have either of them done? Not much. I think people are afraid of the alternative for both Peterson and Grbac. Trust me dudes, there are better options.

IMO, Grbac is going to cash in on his impressive numbers. Somebody is going to pay him a HUGE bonus. It may not be the Chiefs, but somebody else will. I think he sat out the Charger game because he didnt want that sore pinky interfering with his impressive stats. He is that kind of a guy.

When forming an opinion of either guy, just ask yourself what they have done the last four years.

It aint much and four years is plenty of time to get something done.

BTW, Favre was 9-7 his first year, won a playoff game the next, won two playoff games the next year, and finally the super bowl the year after that. Continuous improvement.

Please, lets not compare Favre to Grbac. I know its mostly because I like the Packers. I suggest we compare the Scott Mitchells and Trent Dilfers of the world to Grbac. They have more in common.

Phobia
12-07-2000, 02:16 PM
Trust me dudes, there are better options.

Name them. I think you've been asked this about a 1000 times and you've ignored it every time.

'I dont know' wont cut it.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 02:22 PM
Titus,

One of five wrong isnt bad. I am not sure which one you think is wrong.

Elvis has been inconsistent: Oakland, Indy, New England, San Fran have been bad.

They do miss tounge. Dennis has been horrible and Hasty is a geezure.

Poor Coaching. enough said

Aging Team: Hasty, Moon, Anders, all playing major roles in games, all should have been retired by now.

Zero playmakers: The Chiefs have had two. so I am wrong. Gonzo and Alexander. A whopping two wont get you very far though.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 02:26 PM
QB Options:

Matt Hasslebeck
Trent Green
Lots of College QBs (I am sure you have never heard of Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasslebeck while they were in college)<P>

Phobia
12-07-2000, 02:28 PM
Dude, Im really sorry, you ACTUALLY cannot read.

I said you got 1 out of 5. The converse of that is you missed 4 of 5.

First, Tounge was a safety and you just named to CB's. Wesley is Tounge's replacement and he's been solid.

Second, Elvis has not been inconsistent as compared to last year. He's improved, but has still made mistakes.

Poor Coaching, that's the one you got

Aging Team: the average age of the team actually went down from last year to this year - wrong.

1 playmaker - actually I would say we have 2 maybe 3. EG, Gonzo, Alexander.



[This message has been edited by KCTitus (edited 12-07-2000).]

Phobia
12-07-2000, 02:31 PM
More proof you dont read my posts. I have posted several times on this BB that I watched Aaron Brooks at UVA and thought he was inconsistent.

Hasselback - you're going to need him when Farve is knocked out. Farve is aging fast.

Green is a possibility, but can KC outbid other teams for his services given their Cap issues? Probably not.

Dr. Red
12-07-2000, 02:32 PM
I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE you that Trent Green would have most every positive Grbac has, but also EVERY negative. He is not a good decision maker in the crunch. he is efficient and accurate, when things are going well.
If we're gonna stay in the realm of tall skinny white guys with rocket arms, go get Rob Johnson from the Bills, and let them keep their Gannon [I mean, Flutie].

12-07-2000, 02:39 PM
Ok, Ken...

Put the **** up or shut the **** up...I've continuously posted numbers, stats, FACTS and you've never addressed them.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>He hasnt EVER engineered a playoff win and is the leader of a 5-8 team. To me, those are BY FAR, the most important numbers when it comes to the Quarterback.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gannon has a 10% worse career winning percentage and ZERO playoff appearances (by definition that means he hasn't won any), so how is he better than Grbac?

Again, I'm using YOUR logic. Good god, your a ****ing dip**** that likes to hear yourself talk. So talk to yourself instead of us, because it's becoming PAINFULLY obvious that you're an idiot. (It was just obvious before.)


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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

BigChiefsFan
12-07-2000, 03:27 PM
mizzou--
Do you honestly think Johnson is an improvement over Grbac? The guy was benched this year, and has yet (like Grbac, as Packfan is so fond of pointing out) to win a playoff game, isn't he?

Drafting a QB to develop while Grbac is still here is the best solution, IMO. But that will take a coach the Chiefs have never had—one that can teach a QB how to play the game. CHIEFS-TX hit the nail on the head. Grbac has a cannon, but no one to show him how to use it.

And if we can't afford Grbac, what makes anyone thinke we can afford Green? He'll be a Seahawk next year.

MM
~~Doesn't see enough options to make cutting Elvis worthwhile.

homebizy
12-07-2000, 04:27 PM
Htsmaque,

I never said that Gannon is an elite QB. He is better than Grbac though, and that is being proven by his MVP year and playoff appearance. Grbac has never had an MVP year and the last time he was in the playoffs, his offense mustered 10 points.

Titus,

You remember Aaron Brooks?? Yea right, you dont even remember what happened in the last Chiefs game!

Elvis a "playmaker"?? He's about as much a playmaker as Troy Aikman is. He makes plays for other teams, I will give you that. Elway, Favre, Montana, McNair, McNabb, Gannon, and Culpepper are playmakers. They make plays when things break down. Elvis is a pocket passer. When things break down, he goes into a cocoon or throws into coverage, generally.

TEX
12-07-2000, 04:34 PM
crackfan,

mcnair, mcnabb, gannon, and culpepper shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as favre, montana, or elway...none of them have prooven anything to put them in that category.

pull your head out and come up for a breath good buddy, 10-4

12-07-2000, 05:05 PM
OH MY GOD...Ken, do you really think it's smart to continue opening your mouth?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>
I never said that Gannon is an elite QB. He is better than Grbac though, and that is being proven by his MVP year and playoff appearance. Grbac has never had an MVP year and the last time he was in the playoffs, his offense mustered 10 points.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Umm, dumbass, Gannon hasn't WON THE MVP YET, and he's NEVER BEEN TO THE PLAYOFFS. Comparing Gannon's possible future to Grbac's past? I won't even begin to tell you how stupid THAT is...let me see, you're the ultimate football expert and in your spare time you see the future by reading tarot cards?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>He's about as much a playmaker as Troy Aikman is<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...should I remind you that you said, and I quote, ", QBs, General Managers are judged by wins and losses." "To me, those are BY FAR, the most important numbers when it comes to the Quarterback"?

TROY AIKMAN is 90-64 as a starter, owns an 11-4 (yes that's SEVENTY FOUR PERCENT for you) PLAYOFF RECORD, and 4 COUNT THEM FOUR Super Bowl RINGS.

Oh, but wait, he's a pocket passer...only stats count...or was it wins...or playmakers?

Every time you open your mouth, you look more and more stupid...

FYI: I'm not a big Grbac supporter, I'm just enjoying exploiting the gaping holes in your 4th grade logic.

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Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator

[This message has been edited by htismaqe (edited 12-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by htismaqe (edited 12-07-2000).]

Phobia
12-07-2000, 05:23 PM
Ken: Im really starting to feel bad for you at this point. I cant believe you last response and Parker has definately taken care of that convoluted BS your spouting.

I think you should worry more about what you know moreso than whether or not I've heard of Aaron Brooks.

For those interested, I have posted about Aaron once before on this BB. The topic was 'How far does your love go for the AFC' and the discussion was in regard to do you 'root' for the other AFC teams.

KCTitus Post# 14 posted 11-27-2000 06:17 PM
My thoughts echo KPhobia's. I love to root for the underdog. With KC out of it, Im really interested to see how New Orleans will fare and it's good to see Horn getting his much deserved PT and Aaron Brooks which I didnt think would amount to anything in the NFL. Saw him many times at UVA and he was terribly inconsistent.
I actually did root for the Broncos in 1997 moreso for Neil Smith and for the AFC to finally beat the NFC.

You can shut your cakehole about what I didnt know about Aaron Brooks.

Do you want to try some more, I can continue to make you look like an idiot if you want more.

F. Gump
12-07-2000, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>I can continue to make you look like an idiot if you want more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kennie doesn't need any help looking like an idiot. He's become a master at it.<BR>

homebizy
12-08-2000, 07:46 AM
Boy, some of you guys are just plain stupid!

Titus,

Enough about Aaron Brooks already. You have demonstrated your football knowledge and regardless of how hard you try, nobody here thinks you knew about Brooks prior to a few weeks ago.

Htsmaque,

Great QBs dont last forever. Aikman is a below average QB. Times have changed in the game and for his team. You have to be somewhat mobile or have a lightning quick release. He has neither. Dan Marino was a great QB before his last five years. Read between the lines. I know you are smarter than your last post. No QB wants to be compared with the 2000 version of Troy Aikman. And that what Grbac is: A statue who needs maximum protection to be effective.
Gannon is going to be in the playoffs, its just a matter of time. I think you know this (hope you know this)

Iowa,

You guys put Favre and Grbac in the same sentence all the time. The guys I mentioned are playmakers. Thats what they have in common. I didnt call them all hall of famers. Pay attention!

What the hell is this anyway. Most of you are talking out of your asses! Is there a cocaine party going on at **** house? What gives?<P>

Phobia
12-08-2000, 07:52 AM
Yeah, I thought so. I have demonstrated that you dont know sh!t.<BR>

Dave Lane
12-08-2000, 08:11 AM
Mark,

I don't know how much an improvement Johnson is over Grbac, but he has won a playoff game(last year vs Detroit). GrBac has put up bigger numbers this season but he has a better receiving corp around him than Johnson has. After Westbrook went out at the beginning of the season, Johnson has had no dependable WR or TE to throw it to. I would still rather the Chiefs draft & develop a QB(preferably one that can scramble) than continue to get other teams backup's through free agency. But, I would prefer that QB not to be devoloped under someone whose decision making is as bad as Grbac's.


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It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

BigChiefsFan
12-08-2000, 08:30 AM
mizzou--
Understood. I wasn't trying to rip on ya, just trying to see your point. And I do. Thanks.

And I love the Airplane reference!

MM
~~See, we all can get along.

Dave Lane
12-08-2000, 08:36 AM
I thought about using the "have you ever seen a grown man naked" as my signature but I figured everyone would think I was some kind of a pervert if I did. ;)

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It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

DoktorSmith
12-08-2000, 08:37 AM
If Packfan tells us enough times how smart he is, will we all believe it?

Just in case this tactic works:

I am hung like a horse…

xoxo~
gaz
will be repeating this message ad nauseum.


[This message has been edited by Gaz (edited 12-08-2000).]