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DaWolf
03-11-2005, 01:08 AM
Knight in; Herndon moves on

Safety signs while cornerback leaves without a deal

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star


While Miami safety Sammy Knight signed with the Chiefs on Thursday night, Denver cornerback Kelly Herndon was sent on his way without a signed contract.

Herndon was headed for Seattle and a meeting with the Seahawks. He is one of the top cornerbacks left in a rapidly diminishing market.

“He's a self-made player,” coach Dick Vermeil said. “He's worked his way up the ladder. He's been a practice-squad player. He's been a backup. He's worked his way up to starter.”

The Chiefs may face competition from not only the Seahawks, but also the Falcons if they decide to sign Herndon.

He is also a restricted free agent, which gives the Broncos the right to match any offer sheet he signs.

“We're in no position right now to make a firm offer,” Vermeil said. “We've got a cornerback coming in next week.”

That would be New England cornerback Ty Law, who is rehabbing an injured foot that caused him to sit out the last half of last season.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/11104763.htm

Woodrow Call
03-11-2005, 01:10 AM
I am starting to think that Law will be a Chief.

carlos3652
03-11-2005, 01:12 AM
Priest wants him, Herndon moved on... they are going to get LAW!

Wallcrawler
03-11-2005, 01:15 AM
I think Law will be offered a serious contract when he comes in.

I cant think of any reason why DV would say that they are in "No position to make a firm offer" if they didnt have something in mind.


If Law can be ready to play by the season opener, I say go for it. But I have a feeling that there is more to his rehab than what we think. Adam Schefter on Total access said it would be at least August before Ty Law could go full speed.

August will be nearly 10 months since Law has been able to run. I hope he can get his wind back in a month. At 31, that will be a challenge.

Count Zarth
03-11-2005, 01:19 AM
I still think trading for Surtain is the best option.

The Bad Guy
03-11-2005, 01:25 AM
I absolutely think he will be a Chief.

Whitlock has already promoted KC to Law heavily. I know that a lot of what Whitlock did was self promotion, but he had Ty Law thinking about the Chiefs long before his release.

The Chiefs can't make an offer yet to Herndon because they have to make sure they have enough dough for Law.

This is the first "visit" that I've heard Law is making and it should be his last.

Yes, he is in a wheelchair right now. But it's for a foot injury. If these team doctors check him out and say he will be ready for camp, then I have faith in that. They said the same thing about Roaf and Green when they came over here after having big injuries and I actually trust their judgement on such things because it has worked out wonderfully in the past.

If CP can get Law, Bell and Knight in the same off-season then I will take back all the nasty things I said about him last week.

Wallcrawler
03-11-2005, 01:36 AM
Yeah, but you have to admit that the way he has gone about this has been rather shrewd.

He passed over Hartwell, and signed a linebacker with some durability issues, using that to his advantage, and hoping that he can come back healthy.

Same thing with Samari Rolle. He lowballed Rolle, and played the "stenosis" card, only to have Rolle bolt to the Ravens. Now, we will see him probably make a play on another question mark player, a big name guy who has some durability concerns now.


Sammy Knight I dont think was all that high profile of a pickup. Now, I admit I dont follow the Saints or Dolphins. All I know is that he was pro bowl caliber in 2001. But a lot can change in 4 seasons. Word has it that he is slow, and isnt good in coverage, but is great in run support close to the LOS. It sounds like Sammy should be playing linebacker, and not Safety. I really thought that our safety position could have been filled from within. We have a ton of safeties on the roster as it is. But if he can contribute to the defense and make it better, Im all for it.


If he does get Law, and Law returns to top form, then this offseason will be a pretty damn good one. But a lot has to work out between now and then. Bell has to prove he can stay healthy, Sammy has to prove he isnt a liability against the pass, and Law has to come back to his former level of play and not be a flop after this injury.

If that doesnt happen, we didnt improve anything but these guys' bank accounts.

tk13
03-11-2005, 01:40 AM
Yeah, but you have to admit that the way he has gone about this has been rather shrewd.

He passed over Hartwell, and signed a linebacker with some durability issues, using that to his advantage, and hoping that he can come back healthy.

Same thing with Samari Rolle. He lowballed Rolle, and played the "stenosis" card, only to have Rolle bolt to the Ravens. Now, we will see him probably make a play on another question mark player, a big name guy who has some durability concerns now.


Sammy Knight I dont think was all that high profile of a pickup. Now, I admit I dont follow the Saints or Dolphins. All I know is that he was pro bowl caliber in 2001. But a lot can change in 4 seasons. Word has it that he is slow, and isnt good in coverage, but is great in run support close to the LOS. It sounds like Sammy should be playing linebacker, and not Safety. I really thought that our safety position could have been filled from within. We have a ton of safeties on the roster as it is. But if he can contribute to the defense and make it better, Im all for it.


If he does get Law, and Law returns to top form, then this offseason will be a pretty damn good one. But a lot has to work out between now and then. Bell has to prove he can stay healthy, Sammy has to prove he isnt a liability against the pass, and Law has to come back to his former level of play and not be a flop after this injury.

If that doesnt happen, we didnt improve anything but these guys' bank accounts.
But that's the name of the game with free agency... tying up a lot of money in guys you hope will improve your team, but also stay healthy and hungry after you've paid them huge bucks. You have to worry about that with any guy you sign.

Dunit35
03-11-2005, 01:41 AM
Sammy Knight's
stats: 8 years experience
Jerome Woods
9 years experience

tackles
Knight 759
Woods 542

Int's
Knight 35
Woods 15

Passes Deflected
Knight 65
Woods 48

"As for Knight's speed, Dolphins personnel chief Rick Spielman decided it was sufficient after watching film of eight Saints games."

"You never saw him get beat," Spielman said. "A lot of that has to do with guys who have a natural instinct, and maybe they have a speed limitation but know how much cushion they have to give and when to break. He has a knack for that." espn a few years back.

And Knights a Strong Safety...and Woods is a Free Safety and Knight has better stats then Woods. Of course it could be the systems each are in. I'd see if Knight and Wesley can play together of course neither of them are fast enough to play FS though. Wesley might be in some trouble now.

Count Zarth
03-11-2005, 01:50 AM
I think Wesley is fast enough for FS. He did run down Tatum Bell to pop out that fumble.

Wallcrawler
03-11-2005, 01:51 AM
Thats what doesnt make sense for me.

Woods was the guy stinking up the joint this past season. The problem at FS is worse than Wesley playing at strong safety.

I dont know what they are going to do, we will just have to wait and see. Id like to see Wesley stay on the field over Jerome Woods.

Manila-Chief
03-11-2005, 03:47 AM
Hey, you guys forget that Kingless desires for his #1 picks to be a starter????

I like this signing if .... and only if ... Kingless gets us an impact CB. That was the area of greatest need. A healthy Law or trade for Surtain will do the trick. But, will not hold my breath until it happens!!!!

Nightfyre
03-11-2005, 04:13 AM
Hey, you guys forget that Kingless desires for his #1 picks to be a starter????

I like this signing if .... and only if ... Kingless gets us an impact CB. That was the area of greatest need. A healthy Law or trade for Surtain will do the trick. But, will not hold my breath until it happens!!!!
Assuming Carl doesn't sign Hartwell:
At this point, Nightstradamus predicts:
Carl will sign one veteran CB. Perhaps this will wait til after June 1.
Carl will move up in first and draft DJ.
Carl will draft a CB in the second.

Pants
03-11-2005, 04:15 AM
Like I already said, CP is drooling over Law. Surtain is his last resort.

chiefsfolife
03-11-2005, 04:43 AM
i think its bout time we give the front office some respect...kc defense is on the right track

Nightfyre
03-11-2005, 04:43 AM
i think its bout time we give the front office some respect...kc defense is on the right track
I concur, but IVe been saying that all offseason...

the Talking Can
03-11-2005, 05:27 AM
I'm confused, surely their not going to bench Wesley??

This signing means that Knight is the SS and Wesley gets moved to FS?

donkhater
03-11-2005, 05:31 AM
Knight's a good, underrated player. From the football I've watched the last few seasons, he seems to always be around the football.

Herzig
03-11-2005, 05:43 AM
This is the first "visit" that I've heard Law is making and it should be his last.


Here's one you haven't heard about. Law visited the Steelers yesterday.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-re...e/s_312267.html

The Steelers welcomed former New England cornerback Ty Law, an unrestricted free agent after being cut by the Patriots in late February, for a visit to their South Side practice facility on Thursday.

Law, 31, is a 10-year veteran, a four-time AFC Pro Bowl selection and a three-time Super Bowl champion.

He's also an Aliquippa High School graduate.

Law met extensively with Steelers head coach Bill Cowher and was walked to the parking lot by defensive backs coach Darren Perry and assistant defensive backs coach Ray Horton, who took Law to lunch.


Law walking anywhere was a significant development for a player who suffered a season-ending Lisfranc, or mid-foot fracture on Oct. 34 during a 34-20 loss to the Steelers at Heinz Field. He also had surgery to repair ligament damage in early January and is still wearing a soft cast as a part of his rehabilitation.

"You never get your hopes up in free agency, but I think the fact that he was here was very encouraging," said Steelers defensive coordinator ###### LeBeau, who also met briefly with Law.

The Steelers have released Chad Scott, who started at left cornerback in 2004 until suffering a torn quadriceps tendon on Oct. 17 at Dallas.

Willie Williams started at left cornerback after Scott's injury and has been re-signed by the Steelers out of unrestricted free agency.

"Willie left here as a starter, I assume he'll come back here as a starter, sure," Director of Football Operations Kevin Colbert said this week. "But he'll have great competition from the two young guys (third-year pro Ike Taylor and second-year pro Ricardo Colclough)."

Signing Law would greatly alter that pecking order, although the Steelers would presumably have to get him at what amounts to a home-town discount to get him to play for his home-town team.

"I think a lot of teams could probably find a spot for him," LeBeau said.

Law was on the books to cost the Patriots $12.5 million against the salary cap in 2005, the last year of a seven-year, $51 million contract. He had been scheduled to earn $8.75 million in base salary plus a $1 million roster bonus.

Law had rejected a four-year, $26 million offer for an extension last year, calling it "a slap in the face."

The Patriots rejected a seven-year, $63 million counteroffer.

Law's agents, Carl and Kevin Poston, didn't return phone calls yesterday.

"I really can't say who, but a number of teams are interested," Kevin Poston told The Associated Press this week. "Ty's a top free agent. Everybody knows his situation. He'll be fine."

The Jets reportedly conducted talks with Law this week.

"This is bittersweet," Law had said upon being released by New England. "I always wanted to retire a Patriot. I've been around here for a lot of years. But unfortunately, a lot of players don't get a chance to finish their careers with their teams. I'm looking forward to what's ahead."

The Pats selected Law, 5-foot-11 and 200 pounds, with the 23rd overall pick in the 1995 NFL Draft.

He played in 141 games with 133 starts for New England and recorded 648 career tackles, including four sacks, 36 interceptions (tying for the most in franchise history) for 582 yards and 142 passes defensed.

Law is New England's all-time leader with six career interception returns for touchdowns in the regular season. He also returned an interception for a touchdown in the first half of New England's victory over St. Louis in Super Bowl XXXVI.

In 2003, Law led the NFL with 23 passes defensed and tied for the team lead with six interceptions, earning him his third consecutive Pro Bowl berth.

Note: Kicker Jeff Reed signed a $7.5 million, five-year contract yesterday that includes a $1.5 million signing bonus to stay with the team.The deal was agreed to earlier this week.

Gaz
03-11-2005, 05:45 AM
Even if the foot completely heals, Law will not be in football shape.

If it truly comes down to Surtain or Law, I would rather cough up the pick for Surtain.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not happy about that choice.

Herzig
03-11-2005, 05:49 AM
Even if the foot completely heals, Law will not be in football shape.

If it truly comes down to Surtain or Law, I would rather cough up the pick for Surtain.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not happy about that choice.


Agreed.
:thumb:

But, give me one of the two + Rolle, Jones, or Rogers and it makes our offseason.

Gaz
03-11-2005, 05:58 AM
...
But, give me one of the two + Rolle, Jones, or Rogers and it makes our offseason.

I would like Dyson in FA and Rogers at #15.

Surtain is a fallback position.

Law is not even on my wish list [which means this is what will happen].

xoxo~
Gaz
Used to disappointment.

Dartgod
03-11-2005, 06:49 AM
What a great piece by Teicher. One sentence about the player we signed and the rest of the article about a player we dcided to pass on. :rolleyes:

tiptap
03-11-2005, 07:19 AM
...."Where teams have tended to make the biggest mistakes are when they reach for positions other than tackle, defensive end, quarterback and cornerback. The biggest failures have been at safety. The Saints gave Tebucky Jones seven-years and $29.25 million after trading for him in 2003 and are expected to cut him before the weekend. Dexter Jackson got a five-year, $14 million contract from the Cardinals and didn't make it through two seasons in the desert. The Falcons cut Cory Hall after two seasons of a five-year, $12.25-million contract. . .."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2009514

Did we reach?

Rausch
03-11-2005, 07:23 AM
I am starting to think that Law will be a Chief.

I'd prefer to take a chance on Law before Herndon.

Rausch
03-11-2005, 07:26 AM
....

Did we reach?

Hard to know without seeing any numbers...

Chiefnj
03-11-2005, 07:41 AM
I think Knight is going to discover it is alot more difficult to play safety behind Warfield and Bartee than it was Surtain and Madison.

Dr. Facebook Fever
03-11-2005, 07:42 AM
I am starting to think that Law will be a Chief.
I'm starting to get that feeling too.

:hmmm:

jspchief
03-11-2005, 07:51 AM
I think Knight is going to discover it is alot more difficult to play safety behind Warfield and Bartee than it was Surtain and Madison.

He played for five years behind bums in New Orleans and was outstanding.

Chiefnj
03-11-2005, 08:24 AM
He played for five years behind bums in New Orleans and was outstanding.

But the Saints had some pretty bad pass defenses during that time, so his "outstanding" play really didn't amount to much.

shaneo69
03-11-2005, 08:54 AM
Here's one you haven't heard about. Law visited the Steelers yesterday.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-re...e/s_312267.html



This can't be right. The Steelers don't sign free agents. Rufus told me so.

jspchief
03-11-2005, 09:12 AM
But the Saints had some pretty bad pass defenses during that time, so his "outstanding" play really didn't amount to much.

Oh, I didn't realize you were looking for a single player that would fix our entire D. I believe Superman has already signed a contract with the Justice League...:p

You said he may have looked better due to the talent around him, to which I replied that he was good even without talent around him. It has nothing to do with whether he's the single catalyst to make our D better. All we can do is add good players and hope they work well with our current players to make the D better.

Chiefnj
03-11-2005, 09:14 AM
Oh, I didn't realize you were looking for a single player that would fix our entire D. I believe Superman has already signed a contract with the Justice League...:p
.

I'm not, but as it stands now there is a single player being relied upon to fix the entire secondary. Even Superman couldn't help Bartee get an INT.

RINGLEADER
03-11-2005, 09:19 AM
I still think trading for Surtain is the best option.


The only viable options at this point, IMO, are to either sign Law or trade for Surtain. I'd be ecstatic if we got both, I'd love to have either and will be very disappointed if we end up with neither.

shaneo69
03-11-2005, 09:20 AM
The only viable options at this point, IMO, are to either sign Law or trade for Surtain. I'd be ecstatic if we got both, I'd love to have either and will be very disappointed if we end up with neither.

Has Dyson signed with anyone yet?

RINGLEADER
03-11-2005, 09:24 AM
The Patriots rejected a seven-year, $63 million counteroffer.

That, combined with the fact that his agent is Carl Poston, doesn't give me a lot of confidence that CP will get something done. Of course this was before the injury so maybe Law is prepared to take less now.

Logical
03-11-2005, 09:42 AM
...

August will be nearly 10 months since Law has been able to run. I hope he can get his wind back in a month. At 31, that will be a challenge.

Though you are partially right, it is not his wind I am worried about. He can get that on a stationary bike and by swimming. What I worry about is the mobility of that ankle and foot once he starts running. That will not be known until he actually runs.

Logical
03-11-2005, 09:47 AM
Assuming Carl doesn't sign Hartwell:
At this point, Nightstradamus predicts:
Carl will sign one veteran CB. Perhaps this will wait til after June 1.
Carl will move up in first and draft DJ.
Carl will draft a CB in the second.

To move up in the first we would have to give up our second. So that is not likely.

htismaqe
03-11-2005, 10:43 AM
I'm confused, surely their not going to bench Wesley??

This signing means that Knight is the SS and Wesley gets moved to FS?

That would be the best move, IMO.

Wesley has lost the "attitude" that made him a great SS. But he's also blossomed into a decent INT guy. I think he'd be better at FS.

And Knight is a solid player...

bringbackmarty
03-11-2005, 11:15 AM
Even if the foot completely heals, Law will not be in football shape.

If it truly comes down to Surtain or Law, I would rather cough up the pick for Surtain.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not happy about that choice.
Gaz, you wouldn't know a good corner back if he bit you in the ass. Law has some motivation here. I personally think law sitting out some of training camp is a good thing . It shields him from injury a bit while he gets his conditioning up. Law will be in shape. and come october, chiefs wr's are going to be catching a lot fewer passes in practice, and their opponents wr's too. Plus I wanna see law vs moss. the two biggest assholes in the nfl locking it up twice a season. You many not like Al Davis but he and CeePee are smart when it comes to selling tickets. Plus when in doubt, go with a champion.