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Joe Seahawk
03-15-2005, 04:09 PM
:shake: :spock:

By ELIZABETH M. GILLESPIE
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

SEATTLE -- The parents of a 23-year-old activist killed while trying to prevent the demolition of a Palestinian home is suing Caterpillar Inc., the company that made the bulldozer that ran over her.

The federal lawsuit, which lawyers said would be filed here Tuesday, alleges that Caterpillar violated international and state law by providing specially designed bulldozers to Israeli Defense Forces that it knew would be used to demolish homes and endanger people.

Rachel Corrie, a student at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, was standing in front of a home in a refugee camp in Rafah, near the Egyptian border, on March 16, 2003, when a bulldozer plowed over her.

"The brutal death of my daughter should never have happened," Corrie's mother, Cindy Corrie, said in a statement released by the Center for Constitutional Rights, a law firm handling the case. "We believe Caterpillar and the (Israeli Defense Forces) must be held accountable for their role in the attack."

Caterpillar spokeswoman Linda Fairbanks said the company had no comment on the lawsuit.



However, the company released a general, written statement Tuesday that said: "Caterpillar shares the world's concern over unrest in the Middle East and we certainly have compassion for all those affected by political strife.

"However, more than 2 million Caterpillar machines and engines are at work in virtually every region of the world each day. We have neither the legal right nor the means to police individual use of that equipment."

The statement did not refer to the lawsuit.

The Corries have filed separate claims in Israel against the state of Israel, the Israeli Defense Ministry and the Israeli Defense Forces.

The Israeli military classified Corrie's death as an accident.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA%20Protester%20Killed%20Lawsuit

Joe Seahawk
03-15-2005, 04:14 PM
Also, since Washington State allows dead people to vote, she is still registered..

http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/003657.html

KCWolfman
03-15-2005, 04:24 PM
If we can send a man to the moon, why can't we make soft bulldozers that don't hurt people?

Joe Seahawk
03-15-2005, 04:26 PM
A "hoverdozer" :)

Mr. Flopnuts
03-15-2005, 04:29 PM
Also, since Washington State allows dead people to vote, she is still registered..

http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/003657.html


Dead people only vote when the political majority is trying to steal a governors election. This lawsuit is frivilous, without merit, and really a slap in the face to the poor kid who died making a stand. Rachel Corries parents should be ashamed of themselves

Michael Michigan
03-15-2005, 04:31 PM
Also, since Washington State allows dead people to vote, she is still registered..

http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/003657.html

Did she vote for Gregoire?

;)

Joe Seahawk
03-15-2005, 04:41 PM
Did she vote for Gregoire?

;)


Probably several times.. :shake:

Rain Man
03-15-2005, 04:45 PM
Few people realize that bad things can happen to you when you stand in front of a large, moving piece of construction equipment.

jspchief
03-15-2005, 04:53 PM
If only that bulldozer had a warning label on it....

Donger
03-15-2005, 04:56 PM
Dead people only vote when the political majority is trying to steal a governors election. This lawsuit is frivilous, without merit, and really a slap in the face to the poor kid who died making a stand. Rachel Corries parents should be ashamed of themselves

Making a stand? If she wanted to make a stand, I would have recommended making said stand while occupying a similar vehicle. I'm sorry that she's dead, but she more or less committed suicide, unless of course she was unable to move.

As to her parents, I'd be willing to wager that they are far left nutjobs that probably spent years filling their daughter's head with all kinds of idealistic crap. That's dangerous; left or right.

Taco John
03-15-2005, 05:08 PM
The attorney who brought this to the court should be fined and threatened with dis-barrment. Talk about a fishing expedition...

Baby Lee
03-15-2005, 05:16 PM
Why would a corporation build a killing machine such as this?

Whatzat?

It is a useful construction tool?




















Nevermind.

Cochise
03-15-2005, 05:25 PM
This gives me an idea.

Look out, Easton Company, if my softball batting average suffers this season, I'll see your butts in court!

Boozer
03-15-2005, 05:42 PM
This guy isn't thinking big-picture. How many Palestinians have been plowed over by these things? I'm going to get a class certified. Their families will enjoy $100 off their next purchase of a Caterpillar product.

DenverChief
03-15-2005, 06:08 PM
If only that bulldozer had a warning label on it....
ROFL soooooo true

DenverChief
03-15-2005, 06:10 PM
I'll see your butts in court!

Oh I told the local recruiter about you...he must have made progress! TinkyWinky

Iowanian
03-15-2005, 07:30 PM
Cat should Countersue their ass for unpaid Disposal fees.

They didn't expect that hole to be dug for free?

I don't see how that can have any bearing whatsoever in the US....since is was done...in ISRAEL.

IF they'd have kept their dumb-hippy-bitch daughter out of other people's business, and taught her not to stand in front of Earth Moving Equipment....she'd still be here to protest the Egyptian Fart Frog extermination in Wyoming.

Iowanian
03-15-2005, 07:32 PM
1 better.

If ONLY Israel had enough sense to hire highly skilled UNION Operators, they'd have been able to prevent this heinous disaster.


I'm kind of hoping it hurt a little now.

jettio
03-15-2005, 07:49 PM
That is pretty f*cked up to knock down a house.

That is about the worst abuse of government power imaginable, and you would have to be a completely gutless wonder to think that it would be okay for a government to do that.

No good American would stand for the government knocking down a family's house when it is habitable.

jettio
03-15-2005, 07:51 PM
Cat should Countersue their ass for unpaid Disposal fees.

They didn't expect that hole to be dug for free?

I don't see how that can have any bearing whatsoever in the US....since is was done...in ISRAEL.

IF they'd have kept their dumb-hippy-bitch daughter out of other people's business, and taught her not to stand in front of Earth Moving Equipment....she'd still be here to protest the Egyptian Fart Frog extermination in Wyoming.

You spout off a lot of hateful and spiteful crap, but the fact is that the girl showed more courage that day than you will show over the entire course of your whole life.

Joe Seahawk
03-15-2005, 07:58 PM
I agree with Prager on this one..

Who killed Rachel Corrie?


Rachel Corrie, the Olympia, Wash., college student killed trying to protect a Palestinian house -- a house, remember, not even a human being -- against an Israeli bulldozer, will probably not merit a footnote in history books. That's too bad, because her life and death, the way she has been portrayed in some media, and the reactions of her college are powerful examples of an America with many morally confused individuals.

A Seattle Times columnist described her as a martyr. Her hometown paper, The Olympian, published numerous pictures of a sweet-looking woman from childhood on. It omitted the one photo of Rachel Corrie that USA Today, to its credit, published -- Corrie screaming anti-American invective while burning an American flag in Gaza.

Anyone with a heart must extend the deepest condolences to Rachel Corrie's parents. But anyone with a conscience must regard Rachel Corrie's activities with contempt. One hopes that it is not asking too much of people to entertain simultaneously two conflicting emotions -- grief for the parents and contempt for the daughter.

Rachel Corrie chose to side with a society that breeds some of the cruelest murderers of innocent people in the world. Rachel Corrie gave her life trying to protect people whose declared aim is to annihilate another country. In the name of saving children's lives, Rachel Corrie chose to defend a society that teaches its young children to blow themselves up and which deliberately targets children for death. And Rachel Corrie went to America's enemies to burn her country's flag.

She was one of the many fools our colleges annually produce. Evergreen State College is reputed to excel in such production. Is anyone aware of a single student or faculty member who repudiated her activities?

We are told repeatedly that Rachel was idealistic -- as if that matters. Virtually every person who commits great evil -- the Nazi, the Communist, the Islamic terrorist -- is idealistic. Idealism is morally neutral. It is good only when directed to good ends. But in young people, idealism is at least as likely to lead to bad as to good because few young people are wise -- and idealism without wisdom is very dangerous.

We are told ad nauseam that Rachel Corrie was a "peace activist." So let it be said once and for all that most of these people are moral frauds. Why? Because "peace activists" routinely protest only against peaceful countries. Has there been one Evergreen State or other "peace activist" in Sudan during its Islamic government's slaughter and enslavement of millions of blacks? Are there any "peace activists" in Tibet to protect its unique culture from being eradicated by the Communist Chinese? Did you notice any "peace activists" trying to save the millions of North Koreans dying at the hands of their lunatic government? Of course not. Rachel Corrie and other "peace activists" only target peace-loving Israel and America.

Why do they do so?

Here is one answer.

The world is filled with evil, and young idealists like Rachel Corrie don't like it. Which is lovely. But they don't confront real evil because they know they will get hurt. That's one reason there are no "peace activists" or "human shields" confronting Islamic terror, North Korean totalitarianism, or Chinese Communist despotism.

So, what's an idealist to do if she refuses to confront real evil but wants to feel good about herself? Ironically, confront those who fight real evil. That's why Rachel Corrie and the millions marching to protect Saddam Hussein's Iraq have never uttered a peep against Palestinian terror, Iraqi totalitarianism, or North Korean gulags. Instead, they focus their animosity at the countries that confront these evils -- the United States and Israel.

So, Olympia, grieve for Rachel Corrie's parents, but spare us the hagiography. Rachel Corrie died fighting for the International Solidarity Movement, a Palestinian group dedicated, in its own words, to "armed struggle" against Israel. She ended up being a useful idiot for, and one more victim of, Palestinian terror.
-Dennis Prager

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/image/10/rachel_20corrie_20burning_20us_20flag.jpg

|Zach|
03-15-2005, 08:07 PM
She was one of the many fools our colleges annually produce.




:spock:

the Talking Can
03-15-2005, 08:13 PM
American has supported and armed murderous dictators all over the globe, and we're going to dump on this girl, like we're a bunch of ****ing angels?

Right...

Cochise
03-15-2005, 08:17 PM
Oh I told the local recruiter about you...he must have made progress! TinkyWinky

No, tell Mr. Kotter I've been screening his calls so he might as well just give it up.

DenverChief
03-15-2005, 09:44 PM
No, tell Mr. Kotter I've been screening his calls so he might as well just give it up.ROFL

KCWolfman
03-15-2005, 10:09 PM
This guy isn't thinking big-picture. How many Palestinians have been plowed over by these things? I'm going to get a class certified. Their families will enjoy $100 off their next purchase of a Caterpillar product.
If they play their cards right, they will each end up with $13.75 and the lawyer will get only 12 or 15 mil in a class action suit.

KCWolfman
03-15-2005, 10:10 PM
American has supported and armed murderous dictators all over the globe, and we're going to dump on this girl, like we're a bunch of ****ing angels?

Right...
No, you are right, we should be sorry that someone stood in front of a bulldozer driven by people trying to extract baby killers hidden in homes and expected nothing to happen.

Rain Man
03-15-2005, 11:09 PM
This guy isn't thinking big-picture. How many Palestinians have been plowed over by these things? I'm going to get a class certified. Their families will enjoy $100 off their next purchase of a Caterpillar product.

ROFL


This is funny because it's pathetically true. I've had a couple of stocks where the price has tanked because of fraud by the officers. Some lawyer will file a class action suit and make a couple of million bucks off of it, and then I'll get this letter that tells me that my part of the settlement is that I can buy more of the tanked, gutted, doomed stock at market price, but I won't get charged a transaction fee. Thanks.

Baby Lee
03-16-2005, 05:38 AM
No good American would stand for the government knocking down a family's house when it is habitable.
OTOH, if you burn down the whole compound, kids and all, because the daddy thinks he's Jesus. . .

Radar Chief
03-16-2005, 06:47 AM
You spout off a lot of hateful and spiteful crap

:LOL: ROFL

HC_Chief
03-16-2005, 09:52 AM
lol... suing the 'dozer manufacturer?! hahahaha

Brock
03-16-2005, 09:54 AM
Maybe if her parents had raised her right, she wouldn't have been so stupid. They should sue themselves.

jettio
03-16-2005, 10:32 AM
OTOH, if you burn down the whole compound, kids and all, because the daddy thinks he's Jesus. . .

Where is that penchief rule when you need it?

Seems to be a universal refuge for scoundrels to ask me to argue against sh*t that I never posted. Last three threads I have posted in have people arguing their own imaginings in apparent response to something I post that has nothing at all to do with the topic being addressed.

I have never posted anything excusing what happened at Waco. I don't remember even posting anything about it at all.

And what happened at Waco does not justify the Israelis bulldozing a house to the ground without due process and when it affects people other than who it is that they suspect of a criminal offense.

Brock
03-16-2005, 10:33 AM
I have never posted anything excusing what happened at Waco. I don't remember even posting anything about it at all.


exactly

Baby Lee
03-16-2005, 11:56 AM
Where is that penchief rule when you need it?

Seems to be a universal refuge for scoundrels to ask me to argue against sh*t that I never posted. Last three threads I have posted in have people arguing their own imaginings in apparent response to something I post that has nothing at all to do with the topic being addressed.

I have never posted anything excusing what happened at Waco. I don't remember even posting anything about it at all.

And what happened at Waco does not justify the Israelis bulldozing a house to the ground without due process and when it affects people other than who it is that they suspect of a criminal offense.
My bad, I posted that merely as a point of contemplation, not an indictment of you specifically.

That said, the position that 'the government tearing down a building is REPREHENSIBLE!!!!" is a tad over the top. Particularly as, as the time of her injury, the Caterpillar was not demolishing a house, and there remains dispute as to whether they even intended to at all that day.

alanm
03-16-2005, 12:20 PM
You spout off a lot of hateful and spiteful crap, but the fact is that the girl showed more courage that day than you will show over the entire course of your whole life.
Too bad she didn't have the brains God gave her to get out of the way when a bulldozer had bidness to do. :shake:

chiefs4me
03-16-2005, 12:48 PM
So she just stood still and let the dozer hit her? The man on the dozer just said screw it and plowed her down? Something is missing from this story. I just don't see this happening.

Baby Lee
03-16-2005, 12:52 PM
So she just stood still and let the dozer hit her? The man on the dozer just said screw it and plowed her down? Something is missing from this story. I just don't see this happening.
As always, wiki gives you a good start;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie

Baby Lee
03-16-2005, 01:04 PM
BTW - having refreshed my memory on this episode, I get the sense that the family is suing Caterpillar on a theory containing some portion of these components;

configuration gave limited visibility to operator
armor lessened visibility
bulletproof glass lessened visibility more
engine noise and cabin configuration lessened ability to hear outside events
negligent in selling to a user who planned to use it in congested residential areas
negligent in failing to warn how the visibility and hearing restrictions could pose a danger

Obviously there are a ton of facts to be established, but I get the sense that's the direction they'd be going.

chiefs4me
03-16-2005, 01:31 PM
As always, wiki gives you a good start;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie




Thanks for link..:thumb:

jettio
03-16-2005, 01:32 PM
My bad, I posted that merely as a point of contemplation, not an indictment of you specifically.

That said, the position that 'the government tearing down a building is REPREHENSIBLE!!!!" is a tad over the top. Particularly as, as the time of her injury, the Caterpillar was not demolishing a house, and there remains dispute as to whether they even intended to at all that day.

Over the top, whaa' is there something wrong with being over the top now. Sometimes you have to come strong to discourage the lemmings in the thread from hurtling over the cliff.

I don't remember the details of what the dozer was there for that day, but it was not there to plow snow I know that much.

jspchief
03-16-2005, 01:37 PM
I don't remember the details of what the dozer was there for that day, but it was not there to plow snow I know that much.

Regardless of what it was there for, I'm guessing the average college student knows that if a bulldozer is coming at you, it's smart to get out of the way.

KCWolfman
03-16-2005, 02:08 PM
And what happened at Waco does not justify the Israelis bulldozing a house to the ground without due process and when it affects people other than who it is that they suspect of a criminal offense.

Nor does illegally standing on property attempting to stop the dozers.

Calcountry
03-16-2005, 02:25 PM
If we can send a man to the moon, why can't we make soft bulldozers that don't hurt people?I have only two words to say to the protestors family that was killed:

Soilent Green.

KCWolfman
03-16-2005, 02:29 PM
I have only two words to say to the protestors family that was killed:

Soilent Green.
Why eat stupid sh*t?

Rain Man
03-16-2005, 02:30 PM
American has supported and armed murderous dictators all over the globe, and we're going to dump on this girl, like we're a bunch of ****ing angels?

Right...


"Dump on this girl." Heh-heh. We wouldn't be the first.

KCWolfman
03-16-2005, 02:31 PM
"Dump on this girl." Heh-heh. We wouldn't be the first.
I laughed so hard you could have knocked me over with a bulldozer.

Cochise
03-16-2005, 02:45 PM
"Dump on this girl." Heh-heh. We wouldn't be the first.

Tubgirl has got nothing to do with this.

Calcountry
03-16-2005, 03:10 PM
Why eat stupid sh*t?But you do remember the scene where they ran out of SG? They Caterpillared them into a dumpster, lmao.

Iowanian
03-16-2005, 06:47 PM
but the fact is that the girl showed more courage that day than you will show over the entire course of your whole life.

Thats a pretty bold statement, considering you don't know Shit about me. I'd be willing to wager that I've done things for sport that might just make you pee your bloomers.

That hippy broad showed enough lack of Brain function and dexterity in one moment than I'll show in my life.

I know not to get in front of Heavy Equipment. I know not to touch a moving PTO Shaft or be near one with loose clothing. I know that equipment operators can't always see or hear, as I was taught, and know from Hours on tractors, loaders, bobcats, and dumptrucks. I knew these things in Kindergarden.


Israel doesn't just knock houses down for no reason. Usually, its because the house belongs to the family of someone who put on a belt of dynomite, walked into a birthday party and "proved their courage" too.

The fact is, Caterpillar didn't put that girl in that dozers way. The Operator didn't put that girl in the dozers way. That grown adult woman, flew thousands of miles and jumped on a mound of dirt and brush being pushed by a dozer and fell down.

Thats her bad luck.

jettio
03-16-2005, 07:10 PM
Thats a pretty bold statement, considering you don't know Shit about me. I'd be willing to wager that I've done things for sport that might just make you pee your bloomers.

That hippy broad showed enough lack of Brain function and dexterity in one moment than I'll show in my life.

I know not to get in front of Heavy Equipment. I know not to touch a moving PTO Shaft or be near one with loose clothing. I know that equipment operators can't always see or hear, as I was taught, and know from Hours on tractors, loaders, bobcats, and dumptrucks. I knew these things in Kindergarden.


Israel doesn't just knock houses down for no reason. Usually, its because the house belongs to the family of someone who put on a belt of dynomite, walked into a birthday party and "proved their courage" too.

The fact is, Caterpillar didn't put that girl in that dozers way. The Operator didn't put that girl in the dozers way. That grown adult woman, flew thousands of miles and jumped on a mound of dirt and brush being pushed by a dozer and fell down.

Thats her bad luck.


What is the wager?

BIG_DADDY
03-16-2005, 07:12 PM
You spout off a lot of hateful and spiteful crap, but the fact is that the girl showed more courage that day than you will show over the entire course of your whole life.

Are you really burned up that many braincells? You have a serious problem with understanding the difference between courage and stupidity apparently. This woman should win a a Darwin award for her actions here. .

jettio
03-16-2005, 07:40 PM
Are you really burned up that many braincells? You have a serious problem with understanding the difference between courage and stupidity apparently. This woman should win a a Darwin award for her actions here. .

Courage and stupidity are best friends.

If the bulldozer operator knew that she was there that would be homicide, if he didn't know that she was there, it is an accident.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to both parties, she expected that the operator knew that she was there, and would have expected that she would not be run over unless the driver was a most extreme SOB.

I think it is more likely that the driver did not know that she was there, and did not purposefully kill her.

It seems that some folks in this thread think it is perfectfully okay for the driver to have run her over whether it was an accident or not.

That is messed up. And who the hell would be surprised that people that have their farmland rendered fallow and their homes crushed would want to fight back.

I hope for your sake that none of them baseball players say anything before Congress that is going to get them to let the bulldozers loose onto the homes of athletic trainers.

Inspector
03-16-2005, 09:42 PM
That is pretty f*cked up to knock down a house.

That is about the worst abuse of government power imaginable, and you would have to be a completely gutless wonder to think that it would be okay for a government to do that.

No good American would stand for the government knocking down a family's house when it is habitable.

Yeah, that's what I was telling a guy the other day when we were discussing the eminent domain laws.

Iowanian
03-16-2005, 09:48 PM
What is the wager?

I don't know...But I can tell you that I Jumped out of the first plane I was ever on, I've ridden Bulls, Steer Wrestled, Rapelled off of a 7 story building because Heights bothered me, and have posted pics here of me jumping through Fire on a Dirt bike.

I'd be ok with my odds. Family responsibilities would slow me down WAY before lack of Testicululus Giganticus.


Personally...I doubt the guy ran over her on Purpose. I'd imagine she ran in at the last minute, thinking they'd see her and stop and she fell down or something. It doesn't matter though....She put herself in that Danger.

The other side of the coin, since you're Military formerly, you'd understand that if He was Israeli military, and was ordered to go........He'd have to go.

Farmland is taken away HERE all the time, with Eminent Domain.......My area has it happening now for an airport issue, the Wife's hometown just had a few hundred acres taken, including some of her uncle's best ground for a Lake, Cedar Rapids is about to do it for a school expansion......Road ROW, Utility easment, Lakes...........Happens here All the time. When I was in 6th grade, my friends CENTURY Family Home was taken for a lake, and dozed down.

I'd think an attorney would understand those laws better.

BIG_DADDY
03-16-2005, 10:19 PM
Courage and stupidity are best friends.

If the bulldozer operator knew that she was there that would be homicide, if he didn't know that she was there, it is an accident.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to both parties, she expected that the operator knew that she was there, and would have expected that she would not be run over unless the driver was a most extreme SOB.

I think it is more likely that the driver did not know that she was there, and did not purposefully kill her.

It seems that some folks in this thread think it is perfectfully okay for the driver to have run her over whether it was an accident or not.

That is messed up. And who the hell would be surprised that people that have their farmland rendered fallow and their homes crushed would want to fight back.

I hope for your sake that none of them baseball players say anything before Congress that is going to get them to let the bulldozers loose onto the homes of athletic trainers.

That is easily the worst metaphore I have ever heard. Your viewpoint is highly skewed. It has been awhile since this happened but if I recall correctly he was about to bulldoze the property when she she stepped in front of it. THey told her to move or they would run over her and she refused and got squashed. Now she is just fertalizer. If that's courage to you whatever, I think it was stupid.

alanm
03-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Yeah, that's what I was telling a guy the other day when we were discussing the eminent domain laws.
ROFL ROFL :thumb:

Mosbonian
03-16-2005, 10:51 PM
You spout off a lot of hateful and spiteful crap, but the fact is that the girl showed more courage that day than you will show over the entire course of your whole life.

Courage? This young lady showed a lack of common sense, which has been pointed out by several others more eloquently than I could....Courage is standing for your convictions, while common sense is something you use when you see a very lethal bulldozer coming right for you....

You want courage? Courage is:

1) A policeman who, every day puts his life on the line so that we are protected from the criminal element in our midst....

2) A fireman who, everytime he answers a bell, leaves with the thought that he might not return....

3) The wives of both of the above....

4) A hard working single-woman who, instead of packing it in and letting the government support her, vows to not only support herself, but raise her kids to know the value of family...

5) A person who never let's their disabilities stand in the way of living as normal a life as they possibly could...in the face of a society that looks on them with pity when all they want is to be accepted....

6) A lone woman who lives her full life in service to a God, living amongst the poorest of poor in Calcutta, India...giving everything that she ever owns or receives to the same tireless work...

And that's just the start of the list.....on a daily basis i see people who exhibit courage....but frankly this gal didn't exhibit the one thing that most people of courage do....Common Sense...

mmaddog
*******

Valiant
03-17-2005, 12:00 AM
Jettio what exactly are you defending exactly..

The girl was told to leave...

the bulldozer was coming at her.. she tried to climb on the dozer, she fell, she got ran over...twice actually...


How is this catipillars or the Israeli's fault... She charged the bulldozer..

As for the demolishing of the houses, those houses kept militants that fired on israel... They tear down the houses so the terrorists have no where to go, those families that supported it lost a house... exactly where is the bad in this.... The palestinians are smart enough to leave when they are told too...

This girl is 100% at fault for her death....

jspchief
03-17-2005, 09:11 AM
Courage and stupidity are best friends.

If the bulldozer operator knew that she was there that would be homicide, if he didn't know that she was there, it is an accident.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to both parties, she expected that the operator knew that she was there, and would have expected that she would not be run over unless the driver was a most extreme SOB.

I think it is more likely that the driver did not know that she was there, and did not purposefully kill her.

It seems that some folks in this thread think it is perfectfully okay for the driver to have run her over whether it was an accident or not.

That is messed up. And who the hell would be surprised that people that have their farmland rendered fallow and their homes crushed would want to fight back.

I hope for your sake that none of them baseball players say anything before Congress that is going to get them to let the bulldozers loose onto the homes of athletic trainers.

They aren't best friends. They sit on opposite sides of a thin line, but are easily differentiated. Courage is understanding the immense risk, but accepting it in return for the reward. Stupidity is not paying attention to the risk and not understanding that the reward doesn't justify it.

She was stupid. Period. I can run out onto a live firing range to save a bunny, and hope that the people see me and stop shooting, but it doesn't make me any less stupid when I'm shot dead...even if I had a cause.

jettio
03-17-2005, 09:17 AM
That is easily the worst metaphore I have ever heard. Your viewpoint is highly skewed. It has been awhile since this happened but if I recall correctly he was about to bulldoze the property when she she stepped in front of it. THey told her to move or they would run over her and she refused and got squashed. Now she is just fertalizer. If that's courage to you whatever, I think it was stupid.


If you think the guy ran her over just because she would not move after he told her to, and you think that is okay, your thinking is whacked.

There was nothing so immediate and vital about that bulldozer's mission that day to justify knowingly running the girl over.

It is probably reasonable to take the driver at his word that he did not see her. If he ran her over knwoingly and intentionally he should spend a long time in jail.

Chief Henry
03-17-2005, 09:30 AM
This whole conversation could be one of the most
stupid one's I've ever read on this planet.

jettio
03-17-2005, 09:32 AM
I don't know...But I can tell you that I Jumped out of the first plane I was ever on, I've ridden Bulls, Steer Wrestled, Rapelled off of a 7 story building because Heights bothered me, and have posted pics here of me jumping through Fire on a Dirt bike.

I'd be ok with my odds. Family responsibilities would slow me down WAY before lack of Testicululus Giganticus.


Personally...I doubt the guy ran over her on Purpose. I'd imagine she ran in at the last minute, thinking they'd see her and stop and she fell down or something. It doesn't matter though....She put herself in that Danger.

The other side of the coin, since you're Military formerly, you'd understand that if He was Israeli military, and was ordered to go........He'd have to go.

Farmland is taken away HERE all the time, with Eminent Domain.......My area has it happening now for an airport issue, the Wife's hometown just had a few hundred acres taken, including some of her uncle's best ground for a Lake, Cedar Rapids is about to do it for a school expansion......Road ROW, Utility easment, Lakes...........Happens here All the time. When I was in 6th grade, my friends CENTURY Family Home was taken for a lake, and dozed down.

I'd think an attorney would understand those laws better.

I know that we disagree sometimes, but I respect you and enjoy reading your posts.

If I challenge you about something that I disagree, I don't mean to be personal.

I would say doing stuff for fun requires bravery, but it is a bit different that putting yourself in a situation where people are trying to kill other people.

Reading the wikipedia entry and the linked article from Mother Jones, it looks like those border areas near the Gaza strip are more deadly than she might have expected when she joined that organization.

The takings clause requires just compensation, so even if emminent domain is asserted there should be some due process involved and some payment near market value.

Libertarians are the ones that fight the hardest to limit takings of property by the government.

Brock
03-17-2005, 09:34 AM
The takings clause requires just compensation, so even if emminent domain is asserted there should be some due process involved and some payment near market value.

Libertarians are the ones that fight the hardest to limit takings of property by the government.

Sure. Just produce the legal documentation that shows that these squatters own the land. :rolleyes:

jettio
03-17-2005, 09:39 AM
They aren't best friends. They sit on opposite sides of a thin line, but are easily differentiated. Courage is understanding the immense risk, but accepting it in return for the reward. Stupidity is not paying attention to the risk and not understanding that the reward doesn't justify it.

She was stupid. Period. I can run out onto a live firing range to save a bunny, and hope that the people see me and stop shooting, but it doesn't make me any less stupid when I'm shot dead...even if I had a cause.

The Marines that died taking Mount Sirabachi at Iwo Jima demonstrated courage from obligation to their fellow marines and to their country and not from expected reward.

The girl had a flourescent jacket on, it was not her intention to get run over, it was her intention to be seen and that the operator would not run the bulldozer and continue to do what she felt was wrong.

jspchief
03-17-2005, 09:46 AM
The Marines that died taking Mount Sirabachi at Iwo Jima demonstrated courage from obligation to their fellow marines and to their country and not from expected reward.

The girl had a flourescent jacket on, it was not her intention to get run over, it was her intention to be seen and that the operator would not run the bulldozer and continue to do what she felt was wrong.

The reward for those Marines was fulfilling their obligation and serving their country.

Regardeless of her intention, she was stupid. A bulldozer of that size is not a particulary fast or nimble piece of machinery. It's not hard to escape one. She put herself in danger that it's hard to put yourself in, all to save a house (no lives, just material possesions) that she had no idea why the bulldozer was targeting.

Intention doesn't excuse responsibility. I can jump into the center of a busy highway with the intention of hailing a cab, hoping that cars will see me and stop. But my brain tells me to look both ways first.

Donger
03-17-2005, 09:51 AM
Intention doesn't excuse responsibility. I can jump into the center of a busy highway with the intention of hailing a cab, hoping that cars will see me and stop. But my brain tells me to look both ways first.

And they'd hopefully tell you to move out of the way. While I hardly consider this to be a laughing matter, I can't help but be reminded of the steamroller scene from A Fish Called Wanda when contemplating this event.

Brock
03-17-2005, 09:52 AM
And they'd hopefully tell you to move out of the way. While I hardly consider this to be a laughing matter, I can't help but be reminded of the steamroller scene from A Fish Called Wanda when contemplating this event.

I was thinking of Austin Powers.

Velvet_Jones
03-17-2005, 10:38 AM
I'm gunna blame mispelt words on my keyboard.

Velvet

Radar Chief
03-17-2005, 10:49 AM
And they'd hopefully tell you to move out of the way. While I hardly consider this to be a laughing matter, I can't help but be reminded of the steamroller scene from A Fish Called Wanda when contemplating this event.

I was thinking of Austin Powers.

Same here, it’s not like we’re talk’n ‘bout a top fuel dragster.
She had more than enough time to get out of the way.

HC_Chief
03-17-2005, 10:57 AM
Think I'll bring suit against Well's Blue Bunny for making me fat. It's a proven health risk you know. It's their fault for making such tasty ice cream. There should be warnings on the labels. They are negligent for supplying overweight people with a substance that contributes to heart conditions, circulatory conditions, and diabetes... just to name a few ailments.

Radar Chief
03-17-2005, 11:58 AM
Think I'll bring suit against Well's Blue Bunny for making me fat. It's a proven health risk you know. It's their fault for making such tasty ice cream. There should be warnings on the labels. They are negligent for supplying overweight people with a substance that contributes to heart conditions, circulatory conditions, and diabetes... just to name a few ailments.

“I’m gonna sue Penthouse for give’n my wrist carpel tunnel.” Larry the Cable Guy.

Iowanian
03-17-2005, 12:20 PM
I know that we disagree sometimes, but I respect you and enjoy reading your posts.

If I challenge you about something that I disagree, I don't mean to be personal.

I would say doing stuff for fun requires bravery, but it is a bit different that putting yourself in a situation where people are trying to kill other people.


I understand that the things I mentioned were on a different level than say, my brother cruising around Bagdad slums with a 240b. While maybe not life threatening, I have had my blood spilled defending someone else.

My Bravery or whatever...could pretty reasonably be interchanged with Stupidity in the past....but "mah baows" are rarely questioned by those who know me.

I was looking for this last night.

jettio
03-17-2005, 12:38 PM
I understand that the things I mentioned were on a different level than say, my brother cruising around Bagdad slums with a 240b. While maybe not life threatening, I have had my blood spilled defending someone else.

My Bravery or whatever...could pretty reasonably be interchanged with Stupidity in the past....but "mah baows" are rarely questioned by those who know me.

I was looking for this last night.

:thumb:

You would not have happened to be wearing anything asbestos when you went through that fire, if yes, it was bound to have a long term effect and you ought to see about finding an attorney with experience in asbestos claims.

Iowanian
03-17-2005, 12:42 PM
No asbestos........Just cotton and a plastic Shell.

Guess that was probably 1 leaking gas line from being a Darwin award........but it was wholesome family entertainment.

DanT
03-17-2005, 01:05 PM
BTW - having refreshed my memory on this episode, I get the sense that the family is suing Caterpillar on a theory containing some portion of these components;

configuration gave limited visibility to operator
armor lessened visibility
bulletproof glass lessened visibility more
engine noise and cabin configuration lessened ability to hear outside events
negligent in selling to a user who planned to use it in congested residential areas
negligent in failing to warn how the visibility and hearing restrictions could pose a danger

Obviously there are a ton of facts to be established, but I get the sense that's the direction they'd be going.

The Jewish Voice for Peace website contains a link to what they say is the Complaint (from the Plaintiff).

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

The link for the complaint is to a 23-page pdf file, here:
http://hq.demaction.org/dia/organizations/jvfp/images/final.corriecomplaint.3.15.pdf

jettio
03-17-2005, 01:06 PM
No asbestos........Just cotton and a plastic Shell.

Guess that was probably 1 leaking gas line from being a Darwin award........but it was wholesome family entertainment.

Did you use any accellerant to start that fire?

If so, was the manufacturer affilliated with Sue-able Bastards, Inc.?

Iowanian
03-17-2005, 01:14 PM
It was mostly natural material, but now that I think about it.......it was the damn petroleum industry product that Taunted us into making that fire WOOF!

I have to live with the knowledge that those arm hairs might never come back the same. The Pain, is undeniable.

jettio
03-17-2005, 01:22 PM
It was mostly natural material, but now that I think about it.......it was the damn petroleum industry product that Taunted us into making that fire WOOF!

I have to live with the knowledge that those arm hairs might never come back the same. The Pain, is undeniable.

:LOL: :LOL:

That is horrible, you would need at least a dozen people to put a price on that kind of suffering.

yunghungwell
03-17-2005, 01:31 PM
I understand that the things I mentioned were on a different level than say, my brother cruising around Bagdad slums with a 240b. While maybe not life threatening, I have had my blood spilled defending someone else.

My Bravery or whatever...could pretty reasonably be interchanged with Stupidity in the past....but "mah baows" are rarely questioned by those who know me.

I was looking for this last night.


What a pussy. :shake:

Tell 'im Jettio.

Baby Lee
03-17-2005, 03:05 PM
The Jewish Voice for Peace website contains a link to what they say is the Complaint (from the Plaintiff).
Wow! Nothing about defects in the design, just the theory that selling Caterpillar's to Jews is analogous to selling worn Underoos to Michael Jackson.

Looks to me this Petition just wants to tell a story.

trndobrd
03-18-2005, 03:44 AM
Wow! Nothing about defects in the design, just the theory that selling Caterpillar's to Jews is analogous to selling worn Underoos to Michael Jackson.

Looks to me this Petition just wants to tell a story.


Design and material defects are SO 1970's. Get with the times, man. Manufacturers are now morally culpable and financially responsible for the misuse of their otherwise defect free products. Don't believe me? Just ask firearms manufacturers.

Now if there had been a large red, 8 language, warning sticker on the front blade of the dozer....

recycle
03-18-2005, 09:25 AM
If we can send a man to the moon, why can't we make soft bulldozers that don't hurt people?
lmao