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View Full Version : Would you applaud Bonds breaking the record?


whoman69
03-17-2005, 01:01 PM
Latest news out is that Bonds pushed to hard on his knee and will now need a 2nd surgery. He is doubtful for opening day. He is 41 years old now and will have 2 surgeries on his knees. The question is, if Bonds is able to overcome this, would you applaud him breaking Hank Aaron's record?

Mr. Flopnuts
03-17-2005, 01:03 PM
Bonds has been my favorite player ever since I was a little boy. Let me answer that question with a resounding NO F*CKIN WAY

Chiefnj
03-17-2005, 01:03 PM
Is he going to use more of his flaxseed oil rub to promote the knee healing?

bkkcoh
03-17-2005, 01:04 PM
Maybe that was what the Giants were trying to prevent!

It seems like it is a shame the Bonds has had a burr up his azz his whole career, he would have made it easier to cheer for him if he hadn't been that way.

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 01:04 PM
Yeah. Hank Aaron probably cheated in some form of another too. Hell, throughout baseball there has been some form of cheating rampant that went unchecked. Steroids are just the newest form of the Spitball.

Bwana
03-17-2005, 01:05 PM
Can I pick two AND three?

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 01:06 PM
I also think most of the people who do vote 2, don't even like baseball.

whoman69
03-17-2005, 01:09 PM
IMO Bonds while having no direct evidence that he used steroids, has quite a few indications that he has. There may not be a smoking gun, but there's alot of smoke. Where there's smoke there's fire. He came back from an elbow injury gaining way too much muscle. He had never hit over 50 homers in a season, but all of a sudden hits them with more regularity than anyone in baseball history. Nobody in the history of baseball has ever gotten better at baseball after 35.
Add to that he is a world class jerk. He pulled out the big race trump card to explain why some did not want to pass Ruth. Barry, you haven't faced one tenth of one percent of what Hank Aaron had to go thru, and you couldn't carry his jock strap. There is no way Bonds could be in the same room as Aaron and standing beside his godfather Willy Mays, and look Aaron directly in the eyes to tell him he did not cheat to break the record.

Cochise
03-17-2005, 01:12 PM
What do you know, he's breaking down like McGwire did.

Cochise
03-17-2005, 01:13 PM
I also think most of the people who do vote 2, don't even like baseball.

:spock: I don't know of anyone who does like baseball who wants to see him break the record.

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 01:14 PM
:spock: I don't know of anyone who does like baseball who wants to see him break the record.
I don't care if he does or not, really. Records are meant to be broken. I'd much rather see a Royal break it. haha.

Cochise
03-17-2005, 01:16 PM
I don't care if he does or not, really. Records are meant to be broken. I'd much rather see a Royal break it. haha.

I, in all seriousness, do not know a baseball fan who is positive on Bonds or wants him to get the 'record'. It cuts pretty evenly between serious baseball fans, causual fans, or even non fans, I think.

Brock
03-17-2005, 01:17 PM
It's all tainted now, who cares.

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 01:20 PM
I, in all seriousness, do not know a baseball fan who is positive on Bonds or wants him to get the 'record'. It cuts pretty evenly between serious baseball fans, causual fans, or even non fans, I think.
I guess i'm a casual fan. In my experience, the non-fans are the ones who keep talking about "astericks" and how he shouldn't get the record.

Cochise
03-17-2005, 01:21 PM
I guess i'm a casual fan. In my experience, the non-fans are the ones who keep talking about "astericks" and how he shouldn't get the record.

Every non-casual fan I know would say it too, including myself.

whoman69
03-17-2005, 01:26 PM
Yeah. Hank Aaron probably cheated in some form of another too. Hell, throughout baseball there has been some form of cheating rampant that went unchecked. Steroids are just the newest form of the Spitball.
There is no evidence nor any accusations against Aaron cheating.

Your argument is truly flawed. It would be like claiming that a specific person cheated on their taxes by pointing out that many people cheat on their taxes.

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 01:26 PM
Every non-casual fan I know would say it too, including myself.
I think that would set a dangerous precedent. There is no direct evidence of steroid use. For all we know, he could have used substances not on the banned substance list at the time he rattled off all those homers.

Plus, how many other records could in all professional sports could we look back upon and put an asterick next to, if we had circumstantial evidence (like we do now) of a player cheating?

gblowfish
03-17-2005, 01:34 PM
He's toast. Without the juice he'll have about as much pop as Ken Harvey.

whoman69
03-17-2005, 01:35 PM
I think that would set a dangerous precedent. There is no direct evidence of steroid use. For all we know, he could have used substances not on the banned substance list at the time he rattled off all those homers.

Plus, how many other records could in all professional sports could we look back upon and put an asterick next to, if we had circumstantial evidence (like we do now) of a player cheating?
There were no steroids on the banned list until the late 90s due to the players union. The penalty now if they are caught first time is a 10 day suspension or a $10K fine. Which do you think they would give to Barry? The results are also confidential, so unless a player is suspended its possible nobody would know about it.
I don't want any asterisks either, but I would like to know that the most cherished records of baseball didn't get there cheating.

cadmonkey
03-17-2005, 01:37 PM
F*ck Bonds, I've hated that arogant piece of sh*t since he was on Pittsburgh.

Cochise
03-17-2005, 01:39 PM
He's toast. Without the juice he'll have about as much pop as Mark Belanger.

What, you don't think I had the pop back in '87?

vckcchiefs04
03-17-2005, 02:36 PM
What, you don't think I had the pop back in '87?
I understand all you people who hate Bonds because he's a jacka$$, because he is, no doubt. BUT... even when Bonds was in Pittsburgh he was hitting 30 plus homeruns, and he was hitting freaking bombs, this was before he got to the inflated size he is now, weather he used steriods or not he was a GREAT player before anyone ever accused him of anything. Bottom line is that roids helps your strength, not your hand eye cordination. If he took roids it was simply turning a 420 foot homerun into a 500 foot homerun, either way it's a looong homerun. I don't like the idea of MLB players using roids, but it's not helping break the homerun record or any hitting record, these guys are amazing hitters already. Do you all remember Jeff King? Not the biggest guy in the world, but he was a 30 plus a year homerun hitter..... it's more about your swing and mechanics rather than just strength.

Logical
03-17-2005, 02:50 PM
I have nothing against steroid use if it is done properly with the right supervision.

I will definiely applaud him whether or not he has used them.

Cochise
03-17-2005, 03:02 PM
I understand all you people who hate Bonds because he's a jacka$$, because he is, no doubt. BUT... even when Bonds was in Pittsburgh he was hitting 30 plus homeruns, and he was hitting freaking bombs, this was before he got to the inflated size he is now,

If he took roids it was simply turning a 420 foot homerun into a 500 foot homerun, either way it's a looong homerun.

Right. He was just as much of a power hitter back then :rolleyes:

Year Ag Tm HR BA OBP SLG
+---------------+----+-----+-----+-
1986 21 PIT 16 .223 .330 .416
1987 22 PIT 25 .261 .329 .492
1988 23 PIT 24 .283 .368 .491
1989 24 PIT 19 .248 .351 .426
1990 25 PIT 33 .301 .406 .565
1991 26 PIT 25 .292 .410 .514
1992 27 PIT 34 .311 .456 .624
1993 28 SFG 46 .336 .458 .677
1994 29 SFG 37 .312 .426 .647
1995 30 SFG 33 .294 .431 .577
1996 31 SFG 42 .308 .461 .615
1997 32 SFG 40 .291 .446 .585
1998 33 SFG 37 .303 .438 .609
1999 34 SFG 34 .262 .389 .617
2000 35 SFG 49 .306 .440 .688
2001 36 SFG 73 .328 .515 .863
2002 37 SFG 46 .370 .582 .799
2003 38 SFG 45 .341 .529 .749
2004 39 SFG 45 .362 .609 .812
+---------------+----+-----+-----+-
19 Seasons .300 .443 .611
703

It's at best disingenuous to say that at Pittsburgh he was hitting 30+ home runs when he did it twice out of 7 seasons.

I'm also glad you are comfortable thinking it's a coincidence that he packs on 40 pounds of muscle in his mid 30s but the roid's don't help you anyway - that's why his slugging percentage goes from pedestrian .400's to .863 when he's 36, right?

vailpass
03-17-2005, 03:11 PM
I understand all you people who hate Bonds because he's a jacka$$, because he is, no doubt. BUT... even when Bonds was in Pittsburgh he was hitting 30 plus homeruns, and he was hitting freaking bombs, this was before he got to the inflated size he is now, weather he used steriods or not he was a GREAT player before anyone ever accused him of anything. Bottom line is that roids helps your strength, not your hand eye cordination. If he took roids it was simply turning a 420 foot homerun into a 500 foot homerun, either way it's a looong homerun. I don't like the idea of MLB players using roids, but it's not helping break the homerun record or any hitting record, these guys are amazing hitters already. Do you all remember Jeff King? Not the biggest guy in the world, but he was a 30 plus a year homerun hitter..... it's more about your swing and mechanics rather than just strength.

So tell me...if 'roids don't enhance performance, increase batting average, slugging percentage, and the ability to recover quicker then why on earth would any athlete use them knowing what the long-term risks are?

Cochise
03-17-2005, 03:19 PM
So tell me...if 'roids don't enhance performance, increase batting average, slugging percentage, and the ability to recover quicker then why on earth would any athlete use them knowing what the long-term risks are?

I'm sure that Ken Caminiti was just doing them for fun.

Any batter can duplicate the circumstances under which another player hits a home run. Rey Sanchez could hit the same pitch in the exact same spot, with the same bat angle and everything else as Bonds might, but it's not going over the wall.

The argument that roids just turn long home runs into longer ones is stupid. So I guess the roids don't kick in until the ball's travelled 400 feet or so?

Ebolapox
03-17-2005, 03:32 PM
aaron was cheating???

guy weighed in @ 180 dripping wet at the end of his career... never hit more than 50 homers in a year EVER... (47 was his max, and had several 44's)...

aaron was easily my favorite ballplayer of alltime, and to say that he was a cheater is absolutely ludicrous and out of line, not to mention ignorant... not to mention one of the classiest guys in the history of ALL pro sports... to have bonds pass him and tarnish the home run record would absolutely ruin any thought of watching baseball from then until hell freezes over

-EB-

Cochise
03-17-2005, 03:34 PM
aaron was cheating???

guy weighed in @ 180 dripping wet at the end of his career... never hit more than 50 homers in a year EVER... (47 was his max, and had several 44's)...

aaron was easily my favorite ballplayer of alltime, and to say that he was a cheater is absolutely ludicrous and out of line, not to mention ignorant... not to mention one of the classiest guys in the history of ALL pro sports... to have bonds pass him and tarnish the home run record would absolutely ruin any thought of watching baseball from then until hell freezes over

-EB-

Bonds couldn't hold Aaron's jock

Ebolapox
03-17-2005, 03:38 PM
Bonds couldn't hold Aaron's jock

f*ckin' A, gocheese... f*ckin' A :)

-EB-

Amnorix
03-17-2005, 03:49 PM
F*ck Bonds, I've hated that arogant piece of sh*t since he was on Pittsburgh.

Ditto that. On top of him being an A-hole, he's obviously a cheater. Anyone who thinks that any other hitters cheated in a way that benefitted them as much as steroids benefitted Bonds, McGwire, etc., is simply out of their minds. Corking a bat or whatever simply doesn't give you the same level of benefit as being pumped up on steroids. Just the home run totals show you that pretty clearly.

gblowfish
03-17-2005, 03:53 PM
I think that would set a dangerous precedent. There is no direct evidence of steroid use. For all we know, he could have used substances not on the banned substance list at the time he rattled off all those homers.

Plus, how many other records could in all professional sports could we look back upon and put an asterick next to, if we had circumstantial evidence (like we do now) of a player cheating?You're right. He hit a lot of homers. That's all that matters. He should be a role model for the kiddies. In fact, they should put a statue of him in front of Pac Bell Park to stand as a monument to his natural greatness.
Modest suggestion for statue is attached.

tk13
03-17-2005, 04:08 PM
Ditto that. On top of him being an A-hole, he's obviously a cheater. Anyone who thinks that any other hitters cheated in a way that benefitted them as much as steroids benefitted Bonds, McGwire, etc., is simply out of their minds. Corking a bat or whatever simply doesn't give you the same level of benefit as being pumped up on steroids. Just the home run totals show you that pretty clearly.
I'd say it's a combination of many things, steroids included. I think players would be "bigger" anyway because it's the nature of professional sports to work out year round. Back in the 50's and 60's players didn't work out in the offseason. You watch those old "Home Run Derby" shows and they'd talk about how they aren't in baseball shape because it was the offseason. That simply doesn't happen today. There are more teams, more dilution of pitching talent... and there are smaller ballparks. You look at the old Polo Grounds, the center field fence was 480 feet from home plate! That is beyond absurd by today's standards, most stadiums are 400-ish distance to straight away center field. You look at Yankee Stadium, a home run to center field used to be that black tarped off area of seats in center field, the monuments out near the bullpen used to be in the field of play. The stadiums are much much smaller nowadays.

Calcountry
03-17-2005, 04:09 PM
I don't care if he does or not, really. Records are meant to be broken. I'd much rather see a Royal break it. haha.Do you think the Royals would trade to get him?

Amnorix
03-17-2005, 04:31 PM
I understand all you people who hate Bonds because he's a jacka$$, because he is, no doubt. BUT... even when Bonds was in Pittsburgh he was hitting 30 plus homeruns, and he was hitting freaking bombs, this was before he got to the inflated size he is now, weather he used steriods or not he was a GREAT player before anyone ever accused him of anything. Bottom line is that roids helps your strength, not your hand eye cordination. If he took roids it was simply turning a 420 foot homerun into a 500 foot homerun, either way it's a looong homerun. I don't like the idea of MLB players using roids, but it's not helping break the homerun record or any hitting record, these guys are amazing hitters already. Do you all remember Jeff King? Not the biggest guy in the world, but he was a 30 plus a year homerun hitter..... it's more about your swing and mechanics rather than just strength.

In his 7 years with Pittsburgh, he broke 30 HRs exactly twice. 34 and 35 were how many he hit that year. His average was mid 20's.

In his first 7 years in the league he hit 176 home runs in 3,584 at bats. 1 home run every 20.36 at bats. This was when he was 21 to 27 years old.

The next 6 years in the league, with SF, he was aged 28-33. This should be his prime years. He had 235 HRs in 3037 at bats, or 1 HR per 12.92 at bats. 3 of these 6 years he had 40+ HRs, and the other 3 he had 30+.

The most recent 6 years in the league, with SF, he was aged 34-40. He should be tapering off in his production. Instead, he had 292 HRs in just 2,477 at bats, or an ungodly 1 HR every 8.48 at bats.

There is NO SANE way this could be possible without some kind of steroid or other cheating going on. People do NOT get athletically better as he head into their late 30s. They certainly do not more than double their home run production from when they were in their 20s.

Amnorix
03-17-2005, 04:33 PM
I'd say it's a combination of many things, steroids included. I think players would be "bigger" anyway because it's the nature of professional sports to work out year round. Back in the 50's and 60's players didn't work out in the offseason. You watch those old "Home Run Derby" shows and they'd talk about how they aren't in baseball shape because it was the offseason. That simply doesn't happen today. There are more teams, more dilution of pitching talent... and there are smaller ballparks. You look at the old Polo Grounds, the center field fence was 480 feet from home plate! That is beyond absurd by today's standards, most stadiums are 400-ish distance to straight away center field. You look at Yankee Stadium, a home run to center field used to be that black tarped off area of seats in center field, the monuments out near the bullpen used to be in the field of play. The stadiums are much much smaller nowadays.

I agree that there's more than just steroids in the increased HRs since the early 90s. But as you can see from Bonds' numbers, broken down by stages in his career, when we're specifically talking about Bonds, there's clearly something EXTREMELY odd going on.

tk13
03-17-2005, 04:35 PM
In his 7 years with Pittsburgh, he broke 30 HRs exactly twice. 34 and 35 were how many he hit that year. His average was mid 20's.

In his first 7 years in the league he hit 176 home runs in 3,584 at bats. 1 home run every 20.36 at bats. This was when he was 21 to 27 years old.

The next 6 years in the league, with SF, he was aged 28-33. This should be his prime years. He had 235 HRs in 3037 at bats, or 1 HR per 12.92 at bats. 3 of these 6 years he had 40+ HRs, and the other 3 he had 30+.

The most recent 6 years in the league, with SF, he was aged 34-40. He should be tapering off in his production. Instead, he had 292 HRs in just 2,477 at bats, or an ungodly 1 HR every 8.48 at bats.

There is NO SANE way this could be possible without some kind of steroid or other cheating going on. People do NOT get athletically better as he head into their late 30s. They certainly do not more than double their home run production from when they were in their 20s.
Randy Johnson pitched a perfect game last year, was extremely dominant on a horrible team at 40 years old. Is he on steroids?

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 05:04 PM
I'd say it's a combination of many things, steroids included. I think players would be "bigger" anyway because it's the nature of professional sports to work out year round. Back in the 50's and 60's players didn't work out in the offseason. You watch those old "Home Run Derby" shows and they'd talk about how they aren't in baseball shape because it was the offseason. That simply doesn't happen today. There are more teams, more dilution of pitching talent... and there are smaller ballparks. You look at the old Polo Grounds, the center field fence was 480 feet from home plate! That is beyond absurd by today's standards, most stadiums are 400-ish distance to straight away center field. You look at Yankee Stadium, a home run to center field used to be that black tarped off area of seats in center field, the monuments out near the bullpen used to be in the field of play. The stadiums are much much smaller nowadays.
Hell, in the 50's and 60's you weren't allowed to lift weights. Trainers believed mass would hurt your game.

But don't let facts muddle the water. Lets keep believing circumstantial evidence, and continue the mob mentality.

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 05:05 PM
Randy Johnson pitched a perfect game last year, was extremely dominant on a horrible team at 40 years old. Is he on steroids?
Yeah. Look at a picture of him in 86. He was obviously SMALLER!!! :cuss:

tk13
03-17-2005, 05:20 PM
In his 7 years with Pittsburgh, he broke 30 HRs exactly twice. 34 and 35 were how many he hit that year. His average was mid 20's.

In his first 7 years in the league he hit 176 home runs in 3,584 at bats. 1 home run every 20.36 at bats. This was when he was 21 to 27 years old.

The next 6 years in the league, with SF, he was aged 28-33. This should be his prime years. He had 235 HRs in 3037 at bats, or 1 HR per 12.92 at bats. 3 of these 6 years he had 40+ HRs, and the other 3 he had 30+.

The most recent 6 years in the league, with SF, he was aged 34-40. He should be tapering off in his production. Instead, he had 292 HRs in just 2,477 at bats, or an ungodly 1 HR every 8.48 at bats.

There is NO SANE way this could be possible without some kind of steroid or other cheating going on. People do NOT get athletically better as he head into their late 30s. They certainly do not more than double their home run production from when they were in their 20s.
And for the record, McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero, Canseco, all of them..... none of them got better as they got older, except Bonds. Steroids or not, I think that is a testament to how great of a player Bonds truly is. No other player in the 500 home run club has anything close to 500 stolen bases.... and none of them were peaking at Bonds' age. I think that has more to do with Bonds being a truly great baseball player moreso than any drugs. Remember, they're called performance-enhancing drugs, they aren't a magic pill in a bottle that makes you good.

Uncle Fester
03-17-2005, 05:28 PM
He is a lying record stealing roided out piece of shit! **** that cheating bastard!

mikey23545
03-17-2005, 05:49 PM
IMO Bonds while having no direct evidence that he used steroids, has quite a few indications that he has. There may not be a smoking gun, but there's alot of smoke. Where there's smoke there's fire. He came back from an elbow injury gaining way too much muscle. He had never hit over 50 homers in a season, but all of a sudden hits them with more regularity than anyone in baseball history. Nobody in the history of baseball has ever gotten better at baseball after 35.
Add to that he is a world class jerk. He pulled out the big race trump card to explain why some did not want to pass Ruth. Barry, you haven't faced one tenth of one percent of what Hank Aaron had to go thru, and you couldn't carry his jock strap. There is no way Bonds could be in the same room as Aaron and standing beside his godfather Willy Mays, and look Aaron directly in the eyes to tell him he did not cheat to break the record.

Major rep to you.

whoman69
03-17-2005, 07:55 PM
And for the record, McGwire, Sosa, Palmiero, Canseco, all of them..... none of them got better as they got older, except Bonds. Steroids or not, I think that is a testament to how great of a player Bonds truly is. No other player in the 500 home run club has anything close to 500 stolen bases.... and none of them were peaking at Bonds' age. I think that has more to do with Bonds being a truly great baseball player moreso than any drugs. Remember, they're called performance-enhancing drugs, they aren't a magic pill in a bottle that makes you good.
You may as well list the other 12,000 player that have ever played major league baseball. Nobody in history has ever gotten better as they have gotten older.
He shouldn't be anywhere close to 700 home runs had he even continued the pace he had in what is most people prime. He added all that muscle in one season. There's just too many things that point towards him being juiced. He was a very good player that went to a level nobody has ever played at.

the Talking Can
03-17-2005, 08:00 PM
baseball is such a joke that it really doesn't matter...just close the records book...and start from scratch with all the new roid users, they're about as fun to watch as the NBA All-Star Game Dunk Contest..."wow, another dunk...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

whoman69
03-17-2005, 08:14 PM
Transcript of Barry Bonds before the house committee on steroids-

Congressman Whoman69: Mr Bonds, how long before the game do you have to shoot up so that your ass isn't tight? Are there specific stretches you have to do?
Bonds: That's a ridiculous question Congressman. You wouldn't be saying anything if I was a white ballplayer.
Congressman Whoman69: Fair enough, you pulled the race card out on me. When Hank Aaron was going to break Ruth's record, he received death threats, and all sorts of hate mail. You don't read your fan mail, you pay your publicist to do it. So that wouldn't matter. I received a phone call from Mr Aaron this morning. He left a message for you. He said, "You couldn't carry my jockstrap." I ask again Mr Bonds, how long after you shoot up does your ass hurt?
Bonds: I'm not answering such a ridiculous question.
Congressman Whoman69: What is ridiculous is that you expect us to believe you gained 40 lbs of muscle in one year. What is ridiculous is you expect us to believe that taking steroids had nothing to do with you being the only player in history to have the best years of his career after 35. What is ridiculous is we have to have this conversation in the first place.

Logical
03-17-2005, 08:22 PM
Transcript of Barry Bonds before the house committee on steroids-

Congressman Whoman69: Mr Bonds, how long before the game do you have to shoot up so that your ass isn't tight? Are there specific stretches you have to do?
Bonds: That's a ridiculous question Congressman. You wouldn't be saying anything if I was a white ballplayer.
Congressman Whoman69: Fair enough, you pulled the race card out on me. When Hank Aaron was going to break Ruth's record, he received death threats, and all sorts of hate mail. You don't read your fan mail, you pay your publicist to do it. So that wouldn't matter. I received a phone call from Mr Aaron this morning. He left a message for you. He said, "You couldn't carry my jockstrap." I ask again Mr Bonds, how long after you shoot up does your ass hurt?
Bonds: I'm not answering such a ridiculous question.
Congressman Whoman69: What is ridiculous is that you expect us to believe you gained 40 lbs of muscle in one year. What is ridiculous is you expect us to believe that taking steroids had nothing to do with you being the only player in history to have the best years of his career after 35. What is ridiculous is we have to have this conversation in the first place.What is ridiculous to think is that his bat speed, eye to hand coordination, and reflexes got better after 35 or at minimum did not decrease yet that is a fact. Blaming it on steroids is absurd.

Saulbadguy
03-17-2005, 08:25 PM
They ought to put an asterick next to the name of any athlete who has ever used Creatine. After all, they didn't have it in the 60's.

Dayze
03-17-2005, 08:48 PM
Sure...why not.

Baseball blows anyway.