Terry Shiaivo. I'm not sure how I feel about all of it.

[BCD]

If I were in her condition I would not want to live any longer. I don't want people taking care of me like that. But, thats me. We don't know how she feels, or if she feels anything at all. Deciding if people should live or die like this is a very tough decision. In 1976, my parents had a baby girl. Less than 2 years later they had to bury her. She was injured at the babysitters. Severe head trauma. My folks had to make the decision to pull life support. I was only 7 when she died. I hope never to have make that decision. I could not even begin to imagine the pain.

[Brock]

Nobody would be saying much about it if she had simply signed a living will. That is my whole problem with this mess. Nobody has any proof whatsoever what her wishes were.

[Simplex3]

Nobody would be saying much about it if she had simply signed a living will. That is my whole problem with this mess. Nobody has any proof whatsoever what her wishes were.
...which is why, in the state of FL, her husband now has the right to decide for her. It could be said that "If she wanted to live she should have signed a living will".

I only hope I would have the brains and the balls to do what BigChiefDave's parents did. You aren't helping your loved one by hooking them up to more and more machines when there is no hope of them ever getting off of those machines.

[Saulbadguy]

I don't really care either way. All the bickering i've heard is people saying "noone knew what her wishes were!", but I don't know anyone who would want to continue living like she does. Its tough to use common sense like that, in a delicate situation, but sometimes it just needs to be done. IMO.

[go bowe]

...which is why, in the state of FL, her husband now has the right to decide for her. It could be said that "If she wanted to live she should have signed a living will".

I only hope I would have the brains and the balls to do what BigChiefDave's parents did. You aren't helping your loved one by hooking them up to more and more machines when there is no hope of them ever getting off of those machines.i could be mistaken, but the way i read the news reports, it sounds like under florida law, the spouse does not have the absolute power to pull the plug (whereas i think he would under missouri law, but i could be mistaken)...

apparently the courts have been looking at "clear and convincing evidence" of her wishes on the matter...

and, as i understand it, under florida law, testimony regarding casual conversations with family members is enough to be considered clear and convincing evidence...

so it's the court that ordered the feeding tube to be removed, based on the husband's testimony that terri didn't want to live under these circumstances (again, this is my understanding based on news reports)...

frankly, i would think that the testimony of terri's family regarding her wishes would be as convincing as the husband's, but apparently the florida courts didn't agree...

[whoman69]

I would ask the parents if they are helping their daughter to live or to simply exist, having trapped her soul in a useless shell.

[mlyonsd]

I would ask the parents if they are helping their daughter to live or to simply exist, having trapped her soul in a useless shell.

Since you're not one of her parents I don't think you have the right to ask them any questions, especially any with such a personal point of view.

[kc hopeful]

I would ask the parents if they are helping their daughter to live or to simply exist, having trapped her soul in a useless shell.


Her parents have answered this question.

Terri Info (http://horse.he.net/~swiftpow/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=146110&sid=c2f95c667eac01adb39fc5753949a2b6)

[NewPhin]

I'm conflicted on this one as well. One thing I've been wondering:

If Terry had signed a living will, saying she wanted to die in such a situation, would the method of "dying" still be the pulling of the feeding tube? It seems like a pretty horrific way to go about killing someone.

What I mean: can I specify in my living will that I want them to overdose me on opiates or something if I ever get in that situation?

[NewPhin]

One other thing:

Those arguing from a biblical standpoint who say that Terry's parents should have the right to choose, not her husband: how does this reconcile (not trying to argue, just curious) with Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."

[headsnap]

I'm conflicted on this one as well. One thing I've been wondering:

If Terry had signed a living will, saying she wanted to die in such a situation, would the method of "dying" still be the pulling of the feeding tube? It seems like a pretty horrific way to go about killing someone.

What I mean: can I specify in my living will that I want them to overdose me on opiates or something if I ever get in that situation?
why does this post make me think of the scene in Monty Python's Meaning of Life where the condemmed man gets chased off the cliff by 30 topless girls? :hmmm:

[NewPhin]

why does this post make me think of the scene in Monty Python's Meaning of Life where the condemmed man gets chased off the cliff by 30 topless girls? :hmmm:


Maybe the opiates deal was a bad choice of example. But seriously: I'd want to die "quick" instead of having my body wither away through lack of nourishment. Is this possible with a living will, or is the only option in a living will the ability to decline life support?

[Duck Dog]

I don't really care either way. All the bickering i've heard is people saying "noone knew what her wishes were!", but I don't know anyone who would want to continue living like she does. Its tough to use common sense like that, in a delicate situation, but sometimes it just needs to be done. IMO.


I agree with this. I also find myself shifting positions whenever I hear an argument from either side.

I find it hard to believe she didn't tell him that was her wish. Through my life I know I've said to more than person.

And what does MS, if anything, gain from her death?

The starving thing is what bothers me. I saw a woman on TV last night who said while she was in a coma that docs said she would never come out of was being starved. She said she was screaming inside for someone to feed her. I didn't catch the whole story, but she did survive the coma.

[Cannibal]

IMO, this is an area that the government should not be involved. But pulling the feeding tube is torture. What a tough situation.

[kc hopeful]

IMO, this is an area that the government should not be involved. But pulling the feeding tube is torture. What a tough situation.


But the Gov has been very involved-Judicially.

Here are some words from husband Michael of comfort.


SCHIAVO:

Terry will not be starved to death. Her nutrition and hydration will be taken away. This happens across this country every day.



Death through removing somebody's nutrition is very painless. That has been brought to the courts many of times. Doctors have come in and testified. It is a very painless procedure.

(So starving someone to death is alright - because it's painless) :rolleyes: :shake:

Terri Propaganda? (http://www.terrisfight.net/)

[KCWolfman]

One other thing:

Those arguing from a biblical standpoint who say that Terry's parents should have the right to choose, not her husband: how does this reconcile (not trying to argue, just curious) with Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
From a biblical standpoint, he lost that right when he bedded and impregnated another.

[NewPhin]

From a biblical standpoint, he lost that right when he bedded and impregnated another.


Aha. I wasn't even aware of that. To be honest, I've tried to stay blissfully ignorant of this entire affair. The media and political feeding frenzy surrounding it makes me pretty sick.

My sickness reached an all time high today when I was in the lobby of a car dealership, waiting for the service dept. to finish with my car. Entertainment Tonight preview was on. It went something like:
"Tonight! Hollywood weighs in on the Terry Shiavo case. Find out what all the stars have to say! Who wants her to live? Who wants her to die? Tune in tonight to find out!"

:mad:

****ing sick.

[KCWolfman]

Aha. I wasn't even aware of that. To be honest, I've tried to stay blissfully ignorant of this entire affair. The media and political feeding frenzy surrounding it makes me pretty sick.

My sickness reached an all time high today when I was in the lobby of a car dealership, waiting for the service dept. to finish with my car. Entertainment Tonight preview was on. It went something like:
"Tonight! Hollywood weighs in on the Terry Shiavo case. Find out what all the stars have to say! Who wants her to live? Who wants her to die? Tune in tonight to find out!"

:mad:

****ing sick.
Yup

[siberian khatru]

My sickness reached an all time high today when I was in the lobby of a car dealership, waiting for the service dept. to finish with my car. Entertainment Tonight preview was on. It went something like:
"Tonight! Hollywood weighs in on the Terry Shiavo case. Find out what all the stars have to say! Who wants her to live? Who wants her to die? Tune in tonight to find out!"

:mad:

****ing sick.

Good Lord. :shake:

[patteeu]

I'm conflicted on this one as well. One thing I've been wondering:

If Terry had signed a living will, saying she wanted to die in such a situation, would the method of "dying" still be the pulling of the feeding tube? It seems like a pretty horrific way to go about killing someone.

What I mean: can I specify in my living will that I want them to overdose me on opiates or something if I ever get in that situation?

If she had a living will, the method of dying would be the same.

But the death wouldn't be very painful IMO. The doctors would induce a drug coma with some heavy meds to insure that suffering was minimized.

[BCD]

"Tonight! Hollywood weighs in on the Terry Shiavo case. Find out what all the stars have to say! Who wants her to live? Who wants her to die? Tune in tonight to find out!"

:mad:

****ing sick.OMG! I bet they were smiling when they said that...

[NewPhin]

And on the political side of carrion feeding (not that the DNC isn't likely doing the same thing):

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2002213728&zsection_id=2002107549&slug=memo20&date=20050320


GOP memo says issue offers political rewards

By The Washington Post


WASHINGTON — Republican leaders believe their attention to the Terri Schiavo issue could pay dividends with Christian conservatives whose support they covet in the 2006 midterm elections, according to a GOP memo intended to be seen only by senators.

The one-page memo, distributed to Republican senators by party leaders, called the debate over Schiavo legislation "a great political issue" that would appeal to the party's base, or core, supporters. The memo singled out Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., who is up for re-election next year.

"This is an important moral issue, and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue," said the memo, reported by ABC News and later given to The Washington Post. "This is a great political issue, because Senator Nelson of Florida has already refused to become a co-sponsor and this is a tough issue for Democrats."

[Cannibal]

But the Gov has been very involved-Judicially.

Here are some words from husband Michael of comfort.


SCHIAVO:

Terry will not be starved to death. Her nutrition and hydration will be taken away. This happens across this country every day.



Death through removing somebody's nutrition is very painless. That has been brought to the courts many of times. Doctors have come in and testified. It is a very painless procedure.

(So starving someone to death is alright - because it's painless) :rolleyes: :shake:

Terri Propaganda? (http://www.terrisfight.net/)

I visited that website and watched the videos. She might still have some cognisant thought left, but barely. From the little I've heard and read, she will never get any better than what was shown in those videos. If that were the case, I would definately want to die. However, I don't know that that is what she would've wanted and as long as her parents are willing to pay for her hospital stay, and life support, I don't think there is any reason to kill her. On the other hand, if she really did tell her husband that she didn't want to be kept alive in that state, then one would think that her wishes should be respected.

What I don't understand is, if she will not ever get better, why do her parents want her to live? She can barely think, can't talk, can't walk, can't feed herself, can't laugh, can't cry, can't have sex, can't enjoy reading or television, can't enjoy beer, can't enjoy BBQ, can't ride a bike, can't drive a car, can't leave the hospital, can't hug or kiss her husband, can't mow her lawn, can't plant a garden, can't dance, can't enjoy the internet, can't play games, can't stand up, can't sit down, can't do anything but lay in bed and eat through a tube and poop in a bed pan. To keep her alive is as much like torture as removing her feeding tube IMO.

Anyone ever seen the video "One" by Metallica. That's kinda what it reminds me of.

[Cannibal]

Plus, from what I've seen, all the people who want her to live for the most part, are pro-life Christians. Why are they trying so damn hard to keep her from meeting God? If anything she'll have paradise in Heaven right? That's got to be a helluva lot better than what she has here.

[Calcountry]

I would ask the parents if they are helping their daughter to live or to simply exist, having trapped her soul in a useless shell.What? She has a soul? NAaaaaw