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View Full Version : Just think, 150 years ago we were as tough as Iraqis are today...


Simplex3
03-23-2005, 10:33 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/22/international/middleeast/22cnd-iraq.html?ex=1112158800&en=1b64eb636ad861cf&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY

Ordinary Iraqis Wage a Successful Battle Against Insurgents
By ROBERT F. WORTH

Published: March 22, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 22 - Ordinary Iraqis rarely strike back at the insurgents who terrorize their country. But just before noon today, a carpenter named Dhia saw a troop of masked gunmen with grenades coming towards his shop and decided he had had enough.

As the gunmen emerged from their cars, Dhia and his young relatives shouldered their own AK-47's and opened fire, police and witnesses said. In the fierce gun battle that followed, three of the insurgents were killed, and the rest fled just after the police arrived. Two of Dhia's young nephews and a bystander were injured, the police said.

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"We attacked them before they attacked us," Dhia, 35, his face still contorted with rage and excitement, said in a brief exchange at his shop a few hours after the battle. He did not give his last name. "We killed three of those who call themselves the mujahedeen. I am waiting for the rest of them to come and we will show them."

It was the first time that private citizens are known to have retaliated successfully against insurgents. There have been anecdotal reports of residents shooting at attackers after a bombing or assassination. But the gun battle today erupted in full view of half a dozen witnesses, including a Justice Ministry official who lives nearby.

The battle was the latest sign that Iraqis may be willing to start standing up against the attacks that leave dozens of people dead here nearly every week. After a suicide bombing in Hilla last month that killed 136 people, including a number of women and children, hundreds of residents demonstrated in front of the city hall every day for almost a week, chanting slogans against terrorism. Last week, a smaller but similar rally took place in Baghdad. Another demonstration is scheduled for Wednesday in the capital.

Like many of the attacks here, today's gun battle had sectarian overtones. Dhia and his family are Shiites, and they cook for religious festivals at the Shiite Husseiniya mosque, across from Dhia's shop. The insurgents are largely Sunnis, and they have aimed dozens of attacks at Shiite figures, celebrations, even funerals. The conflict has grown sharper in the past year, with Shiites now dominating Iraq's new police force and army and holding a narrow majority of seats in the newly elected national assembly.

The attack unfolded in Doura, a working-class neighborhood in southern Baghdad where much of the capital's violence is concentrated. A number of assassinations and bombings have taken place here in recent weeks, and the police openly acknowledge they have little control.

Just hours before the gun battle this morning, an Interior Ministry official was gunned down in Doura as he drove to work, officials said.

Elsewhere in Iraq, insurgents continued their campaign of violence. In the northern city of Mosul, four civilians were killed this morning and 14 wounded when a roadside bomb detonated near an American military convoy, health officials said. The bomb did not appear to have harmed the convoy, witnesses said, but destroyed four or five civilian cars that were passing near it on the Sunharib bridge, in the city center.

In Anbar province, the troubled area west of Baghdad, gunmen kidnapped six Iraqi soldiers today as they walked to a bus station, The Associated Press reported.

Just before the gun battle in Doura began, witnesses saw the gunmen circling near the Husseiniya mosque in three cars, said Amjad Hamid, 25, who works in Iraq's Ministry of Justice. They stopped near Dhia's shop, across from the mosque.

The men carried pistols and guns, and one had a belt full of hand grenades, Mr. Hamid said. They drove an Oldsmobile, a gray Honda, and a red Volkswagen Passat.

When the shooting began, Mr. Hamid said, his mother ran outside shouting his name, and was struck by bullets in the leg and the ear.

After a group of insurgents fled, leaving the Honda and three of their dead behind them, one was left behind, said the Doura police chief. The gunman broke into a nearby house and hid there, holding the residents at gunpoint, until his friends arrived and drove him away, the police chief said.

The owner of the house, who spoke on condition that he not be named, said the gunman entered through the garage and made his way to the living room.

"I heard the screaming of the women, so I went to see what was the matter and I saw a guy holding an AK-47," the man said.

The homeowner said the gunman then shouted: "Keep me here for a short time until I can leave the area or I will kill you all. I don't want anyone to leave this room."

They obeyed. The gunman telephoned some friends, and stayed for about an hour until they arrived to pick him up. Before he left, the owner of the house said, he issued a final warning: "If you scream or call the police, my friends will come and kill you. They know where you are."

Two of Dhia's nephews who were with him during the attack, one aged 13, one 24, were wounded, family members said. After the police arrived, they recovered the bodies of the three dead insurgents, who were identified through documents in their clothing as Abdul Razzaq Hamid, Abdul Hamid Abed, and Zaid Safaa, officials said.

Hours later, Dhia was still furiously cursing the mujahedeen when he spoke to a reporter in his carpentry shop. A Shiite cleric quickly told him to stop talking, and he complied.

Meanwhile, a group of armed neighborhood men stood watch on the roof of the house, guarding the streets leading to the Husseiniya mosque and Dhia's shop.

"I am sure they will be back," one of the guards said. "We killed three of them."

Layla Isitfan contributed reporting for this article.

Duck Dog
03-23-2005, 12:12 PM
I hope this trend catches on.

Cochise
03-23-2005, 12:14 PM
awesome, I hope those dirtbags have people shooting at them everywhere they go.

go bowe
03-23-2005, 12:28 PM
awesome, I hope those dirtbags have people shooting at them everywhere they go.maybe it was a mistake to have tried to disarm the populace (we might have seen more of this kind of armed resistance if the shiites had been allowed to keep their weapons)...

it might have been an even bigger mistake to try to disarm the shiite militias...

they probably could have done a better job of battling the insurgents and more importantly the terrorists, if only becuase they would have the active support of the populace...

Calcountry
03-23-2005, 12:54 PM
maybe it was a mistake to have tried to disarm the populace (we might have seen more of this kind of armed resistance if the shiites had been allowed to keep their weapons)...

it might have been an even bigger mistake to try to disarm the shiite militias...

they probably could have done a better job of battling the insurgents and more importantly the terrorists, if only becuase they would have the active support of the populace...Now that they have a stake, and a vision of what life can be like without the butcher in power, they are becoming willing to die for it.

I can't say that would have been true before because their national pride and spirit had been completely taken away like an abused animal.

Iowanian
03-23-2005, 02:08 PM
About damn time.

I'm glad the guy is mad. I'm suprised that more Iraqis aren't fighting back........They're being killed by the insurgents in far greater numbers than US Soldiers.

I hope the US Gives that guy a couple hundo Bounty on those wormfarms.

My brother is in Southern Bagdad.......he says Half the people Love them(so they say) and Half Hate them. It'd be nice if the rest of the population would tire of the insurgency and start helping out more.......but they have been giving more information.

Iowanian
03-23-2005, 02:09 PM
Bo........We can't forget that just a few months ago, our Troops were battling shiite rebels of Al Sadr. I think they should be allowed to defend themselves against attacks, but they have no reason to have anything bigger in caliber than an AK.

mlyonsd
03-23-2005, 02:24 PM
I've never understood why the Iraqi people would let insurgents dictate how safe the streets are. That kind of activity over here would result in rednecks driving around in pickups looking for them.

I've said all along the Iraqi's have to stand up for themselves. While this is only one story it is encouraging in the least.

Iowanian
03-23-2005, 02:29 PM
I've said that all along mylon.....

If there were bands of foreigners blowing up grocery stores and funerals in my hometown, or where I live..............there would be groups like my family having contests, collecting scalps.

The difference is, while they consider Random spray drivebys the method, "Rednecks" would likely be in the clock tower around the clock, or in some new Mossy Oak in a tree line with a .243.

I also guarandamn-tee that Americans wouldn't sit by and say or do nothing when foreigners(not US Troops in this case) were randomly killing thier neighbors. I think a high percentage of Americans would be helping call in Air Strikes, if not Sgt York'in their arses themselves.

Calcountry
03-23-2005, 03:29 PM
Bo........We can't forget that just a few months ago, our Troops were battling shiite rebels of Al Sadr. I think they should be allowed to defend themselves against attacks, but they have no reason to have anything bigger in caliber than an AK.Agree 100%.

trndobrd
03-24-2005, 05:34 AM
maybe it was a mistake to have tried to disarm the populace (we might have seen more of this kind of armed resistance if the shiites had been allowed to keep their weapons)...

it might have been an even bigger mistake to try to disarm the shiite militias...

they probably could have done a better job of battling the insurgents and more importantly the terrorists, if only becuase they would have the active support of the populace...


What do you mean by "disarm"?

The right of Joe Iraqi to have, and even carry openly, a rifle wasn't at issue. Mortars, RPGs and crew served automatic weapons were taken away. The militias, with that kind of firepower, would have caused more problems than solutions.