View Full Version : Where was the Legislature and Governor of SD?
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 01:25 PM
USA - Police say it's at this house on Silver Place where a pre birthday ecstasy pill ended they life of Desirae Kirchner. Sioux Falls Police Officer Loren McManus says, "When officers arrived she was unconscious and having breathing difficulties."
Early Tuesday morning the 20 year old was taken from this house to Sioux Valley Hospital, and hours later taken off life support.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7280101/
SHE WAS STILL ALIVE! I thought SD erred on the side of life? Where is the outrage? Maybe it was becasue she was a druggie instead of anorexic that nobody cares :hmmm:
Duck Dog
03-24-2005, 01:36 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7280101/
SHE WAS STILL ALIVE! I thought SD erred on the side of life? Where is the outrage? Maybe it was becasue she was a druggie instead of anorexic that nobody cares :hmmm:
I'm taking life support to mean that without the help of machines she wouldn't breath or her heart wouldn't pump? I don't know, the story is very vague in that respect.
BTW, ever drive through SD? I hunt there every year. I've never seen so many anti abortion signs in my life.
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 01:41 PM
I'm taking life support to mean that without the help of machines she wouldn't breath or her heart wouldn't pump? I don't know, the story is very vague in that respect.
BTW, ever drive through SD? I hunt there every year. I've never seen so many anti abortion signs in my life.
Yea it was pretty vauge but dammit she was living and had a chance to get better!....oh hell no I would never go thru SD....talk about icky
Duck Dog
03-24-2005, 01:44 PM
Yea it was pretty vauge but dammit she was living and had a chance to get better!....oh hell no I would never go thru SD....talk about icky
With the info provided, I'd hardly say we have reason to believe one way or another.
Icky? ROFL
That's what someone say's when their finger pokes through the toilet paper. Not when they drive through a state. :p
bkkcoh
03-24-2005, 01:45 PM
I didn't think a feeding tube was a machine??? :hmmm:
Mr. Kotter
03-24-2005, 01:47 PM
It's called "Ecstasy".... :rolleyes:
Brock
03-24-2005, 01:47 PM
If you take ecstacy you must want to die.
mlyonsd
03-24-2005, 01:50 PM
oh hell no I would never go thru SD....talk about icky
Thanks, we appreciate it. :p
Mr. Kotter
03-24-2005, 01:51 PM
...oh hell no I would never go thru SD....talk about icky
I know what you mean; it's the same feeling I got driving through Larimer Square in Denver back in the late 80s. :)
Mr. Kotter
03-24-2005, 01:52 PM
If you take ecstacy you must want to die.
Responsible dealers require a written consent to that effect.
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 01:59 PM
Icky? ROFL
That's what someone say's when their finger pokes through the toilet paper. Not when they drive through a state. :p ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 02:00 PM
If you take ecstacy you must want to die.
obviously if you don't eat either you must want to die :thumb: so basically she got what she wanted it was just thsoe damn docotors intervening and trying to bring her back to life
Brock
03-24-2005, 02:03 PM
obviously if you don't eat either you must want to die :thumb: so basically she got what she wanted it was just thsoe damn docotors intervening and trying to bring her back to life
Wrong-headed comparison.
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 02:06 PM
Wrong-headed comparison.
how? you don't eat you die no? Schiavo had an eating disorder that caused her problems. I'm sure she wasn't intentionally trying to kill herself but was trying to fit in and be "pretty" the basic premise here is you don't eat you die (duh) The Ecstasy girl wasn't intending to die she wanted to expereince something new and possibly "fit in" with her friends but the basic premise here is you take drugs you die.
Brock
03-24-2005, 02:08 PM
It would be like saying that if you get aids from eating a bad weenie, it means you must want to die.
Mr. Kotter
03-24-2005, 02:09 PM
obviously if you don't eat either you must want to die :thumb: so basically she got what she wanted it was just thsoe damn docotors intervening and trying to bring her back to life
So if you engage in risky sexual practices and contract life threatening illnesses you must want to die then, too....right? :hmmm:
Mr. Kotter
03-24-2005, 02:10 PM
It would be like saying that if you get aids from eating a bad weenie, it means you must want to die.
Damn, you beat me to it...
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 02:10 PM
It would be like saying that if you get aids from eating a bad weenie, it means you must want to die.
if you are stupid enuf to not use protection then yea
Brock
03-24-2005, 02:11 PM
if you are stupid enuf to not use protection then yea
Being stupid doesn't mean you want to die. It just means you're stupid.
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 02:13 PM
Being stupid doesn't mean you want to die. It just means you're stupid.
and want to die...maybe not in an active way...but there must be some underlying death wish
Mr. Kotter
03-24-2005, 02:13 PM
if you are stupid enuf to not use protection then yea
And protection works in 100% of cases, right....especially when coupled with rampant promoscuity.
Brock
03-24-2005, 02:17 PM
and want to die...maybe not in an active way...but there must be some underlying death wish
Are we already to the psychobabble phase of the argument? Geez, how time flies.
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 02:17 PM
And protection works in 100% of cases, right....especially when coupled with rampant promoscuity.stay on topic please
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 02:20 PM
Are we already to the psychobabble phase of the argument? Geez, how time flies.
well then you tell me where the line gets drawn between death wish and just stupidity? If you jump into a tank full of man eating sharks are you stupid or have a death wish? Wrestle alligators? run across the interstate? stand on the ledge of a high rise building? all are very stupid and all can get you killed....
Mr. Kotter
03-24-2005, 02:34 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7280101/
SHE WAS STILL ALIVE! I thought SD erred on the side of life? Where is the outrage? Maybe it was becasue she was a druggie instead of anorexic that nobody cares :hmmm:
Maybe there is a silver-lining: maybe this will lead to the government withdrawing life-support, extraordinary measures, and and pain-medication from those dying of diseases they contract through lifestyle choices. :hmmm:
TIC
Delano
03-24-2005, 05:24 PM
Ever consider that her parents ordered the plug pulled and not her boyfriend?
go bowe
03-24-2005, 05:27 PM
And protection works in 100% of cases, right....especially when coupled with rampant promoscuity.i assume you meant promiscuity, and yes, i'm all for it... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Delano
03-24-2005, 05:29 PM
i assume you meant promiscuity, and yes, i'm all for it... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Hoooray for sex and drugs!!!
:clap:
KCWolfman
03-24-2005, 05:29 PM
Yea it was pretty vauge but dammit she was living and had a chance to get better!....oh hell no I would never go thru SD....talk about icky
You should have read the lead article in the Star yesterday. A Guatemalan with terminal PVS recovered in a NKC hospital and is planning to go back home. Damn him for recovering and proving those docs wrong.
go bowe
03-24-2005, 05:30 PM
Hoooray for sex and drugs!!!
:clap:and don't forget rock and roll!!!
if some is good, we always used to say, then more must be better... :p :p :p
go bowe
03-24-2005, 05:41 PM
You should have read the lead article in the Star yesterday. A Guatemalan with terminal PVS recovered in a NKC hospital and is planning to go back home. Damn him for recovering and proving those docs wrong.yeah, i saw that thread earlier...
but was his condition "terminal" or just "permanent"?
either way, it's obvious that the doctors were wrong...
of course, that guy had only been in whatever state he actually was for a few months, if i read your thread correctly, and there was no indication that i could see that a significant portion of his brain had physically deteriorated and been replaced by csf...
i think that it's not all that unusual for some people to recover from comas and even pvs, but isn't it only within a relatively short time rather than many years, like in the schaivo case?
has anybody ever recovered after having their cebral cortex disintegrate?
i would hope that somebody would pull the plug on me if i ever got into that condition...
but i don't know if i could do it if it were my wife or kids...
it's a tough situation... :(
KCWolfman
03-24-2005, 05:45 PM
yeah, i saw that thread earlier...
but was his condition "terminal" or just "permanent"?
either way, it's obvious that the doctors were wrong...
of course, that guy had only been in whatever state he actually was for a few months, if i read your thread correctly, and there was no indication that i could see that a significant portion of his brain had physically deteriorated and been replaced by csf...
i think that it's not all that unusual for some people to recover from comas and even pvs, but isn't it only within a relatively short time rather than many years, like in the schaivo case?
has anybody ever recovered after having their cebral cortex disintegrate?
i would hope that somebody would pull the plug on me if i ever got into that condition...
but i don't know if i could do it if it were my wife or kids...
it's a tough situation... :(
Wow, that is a bunch of data.
PVS supposedly means no recovery, ever. Which, if there is no data processed by the PVS patient, they are terminal.
Yeah, he was "PVS" for four months, which is one more month than "irreversible" as mentioned by some quack quoted in this story.
I don't know if anyone has recovered. The real question isn't will she recover, but is she processing data as a person? And honestly, I don't know one way or the other.
And yes, I would not want to live that way and my Adm Dir states just that.
go bowe
03-24-2005, 06:32 PM
Wow, that is a bunch of data.
PVS supposedly means no recovery, ever. Which, if there is no data processed by the PVS patient, they are terminal.
Yeah, he was "PVS" for four months, which is one more month than "irreversible" as mentioned by some quack quoted in this story.
I don't know if anyone has recovered. The real question isn't will she recover, but is she processing data as a person? And honestly, I don't know one way or the other.
And yes, I would not want to live that way and my Adm Dir states just that.data processed...
processing data as a person?
hmmmmm...
i guess my personal opinion is that anybody with a flat ekg and physical deterioration of the cebral cortex is not processing data at all...
but my personal opinion doesn't matter mcuh in this situation, because the determination has been made that she, the person who i think is no longer processing information, didn't want to continue to live under such circumstances...
it's still a tough situation...
and it definitely shows the importance of advance directives...
DenverChief
03-24-2005, 07:06 PM
Ever consider that her parents ordered the plug pulled and not her boyfriend?
So what right do her parents have to take her off of life support when there is even the slightest possibility she could recover? (JUST FYI this is the argument advance by the "pro-life" crowd)
KCWolfman
03-24-2005, 07:45 PM
data processed...
processing data as a person?
hmmmmm...
People don't process data? Computers were built upon the basic thought processes of humans - on and off - yes and no - 1 and 0. Of course we process data.
go bowe
03-25-2005, 01:36 AM
People don't process data? Computers were built upon the basic thought processes of humans - on and off - yes and no - 1 and 0. Of course we process data.no, i was referring to terri schaivo's processing data... or not processing data, to be more accurate...
from what i've seen on the news and in the various court documents that i've read, i don't think she is processing any data above the brain stem level (involuntary reflexes, etc.)...
i'm no doctor, but i did stay at a holiday express...
no, just kidding; what i meant was that i spent over 20 years reviewing medical records and communicating with doctors in order to prove disability cases, so i might have more familiarity with the various tests and diagnostic procedures than the average spectator...
as far as i know, no physician who has actually examined her and reviewed the diagnostic tests (particularly the ct scan of the changes in the cerbral cortex) has opined that she is not in a pvs and/or that there is any chance whatsoever that her condition could improve...
this guy who offered the new affidavit, the neurologist from the mayo clinic in florida apparently has not done an actual examination of her nor has he done any diagnostic imaging tests, if the newscasts can be believed... in fact, one of the talking heads on cnn tonight read from the affidavit and the language of the affidavit seemed to indicate that he had found no objective evidence of any volitional or purposeful response... he just talked about having a "sense" that there was a human being in the room (as best as i can recall/paraphrase it)... imo, not very persuasive medical "evidence"...
but, barring some legal miracle, this all will become moot in a few days, a week at most...
a truly sad situation...
(btw, did you know that there were like 35,000 or more people in pvs in the u.s. in the last year? cnn's report included that tidbit... this situation is really quite common, but it doesn't usually get in the news like this...)
Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 08:57 AM
no, i was referring to terri schaivo's processing data... or not processing data, to be more accurate...
What? Sloppy language and wrong terminology will NOT be tolerated here.... :cuss:
:)
Being stupid doesn't mean you want to die. It just means you're stupid.
and want to die...maybe not in an active way...but there must be some underlying death wish
Are we already to the psychobabble phase of the argument? Geez, how time flies.
If you take ecstacy you must want to die.
ROFL
patteeu
03-25-2005, 09:27 AM
Wow, that is a bunch of data.
PVS supposedly means no recovery, ever. Which, if there is no data processed by the PVS patient, they are terminal.
Yeah, he was "PVS" for four months, which is one more month than "irreversible" as mentioned by some quack quoted in this story.
I don't know if anyone has recovered. The real question isn't will she recover, but is she processing data as a person? And honestly, I don't know one way or the other.
And yes, I would not want to live that way and my Adm Dir states just that.
Do you have any data on the recovery rate for people who are diagnosed with PVS? Do you have a breakdown of the different recovery rates for those in PVS for different periods of time? (You can take these as rhetorical questions if you want).
When it comes to drafting laws and making practical decisions about health care and administering/withdrawing life prolonging proceedures, are you willing to accept any level of error rate wrt this diagnosis or do you insist on absolute certainty?
patteeu
03-25-2005, 09:32 AM
What? Sloppy language and wrong terminology will NOT be tolerated here.... :cuss:
:)
If I were in the joint and I had been repeatedly raped by Bubba over the last few days, I don't think I'd track him down in the yard and bat my eyes at him just to see what would happen. But that's just me. :p
Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 09:35 AM
If I were in the joint and I had been repeatedly raped by Bubba over the last few days, I don't think I'd track him down in the yard and bat my eyes at him just to see what would happen. But that's just me. :p
Leave your homoerotic fantasies out of this. :)
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