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View Full Version : Lawyers: Why is Scalia Wrong? Seriously.


Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 11:31 AM
Scalia: Next Supreme Court Chief Justice?

I sure as hell hope he is our next Chief Justice, although I know the my fellow Democrats will do their best to see that it doesn't happen.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050315/ap_on_go_su_co/scalia_1

Justice Scalia made a speech to the Woodrow Wilson Center, and I love this guy and his view of the U.S. Constitution, the meaning of Democracy, the politicization of our Courts, which includes the Supreme Court, and the failure of our nation to adhere to the strict interpretation of our Constitution.

Here's a sampling of what he said which seems quite true, given my understanding of government and history:

In a 35-minute speech Monday, Scalia said unelected judges have no place deciding issues such as abortion and the death penalty. The court's 5-4 ruling March 1 to outlaw the juvenile death penalty based on "evolving notions of decency" was simply a mask for the personal policy preferences of the five-member majority, he said.

Seeming to be a direct slam against his fellow Justices, he added:

"If you think aficionados of a living Constitution want to bring you flexibility, think again," Scalia told an audience at the Woodrow Wilson Center, a Washington think tank. "You think the death penalty is a good idea? Persuade your fellow citizens to adopt it. You want a right to abortion? Persuade your fellow citizens and enact it. That's flexibility."

"Why in the world would you have it interpreted by nine lawyers?" he said.

Then he tackles the issue of abortion, and sort of, laments: citing the example of abortion, he said unelected justices too often choose to read new rights into the Constitution, at the expense of the democratic process.

The power to create a Constitutional Amendment was provided by our Founding Fathers to be exercised under the most extreme of necessary conditions, otherwise it wouldn't require such a monstrous process to go through for enactment.

Scalia also slammed Earl Warren as Chief Justice, for the politicization of our Highest Court. He blamed Chief Justice Earl Warren, who presided from 1953-69 over a court that assaulted racial segregation and expanded individual rights against arbitrary government searches, for the increased political role of the Supreme Court, citing Warren's political background. Warren was governor of California and the Republican vice presidential nominee in 1948.

"You have a chief justice who was a governor, a policy-maker, who approached the law with that frame of mind. Once you have a leader with that mentality, it's hard not to follow," Scalia said, in response to a question from the audience.

Scalia said increased politics on the court will create a bitter nomination fight for the next Supreme Court appointee, since judges are now more concerned with promoting their personal policy preferences rather than interpreting the law.

"If we're picking people to draw out of their own conscience and experience a 'new' Constitution, we should not look principally for good lawyers. We should look to people who agree with us," he said, explaining that's why senators increasingly probe nominees for their personal views on positions such as abortion.

"When we are in that mode, you realize we have rendered the Constitution useless," Scalia said.

Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 12:40 PM
Okay.

How about non-lawyers or wanna-be-lawyers who wanna take a crack at it??? :shrug:

Simplex3
03-25-2005, 12:51 PM
Scalia is my idol. That dude is as cool as the other side of the pillow.

jAZ
03-25-2005, 01:46 PM
judges are now more concerned with promoting their personal policy preferences rather than interpreting the law.
At least he admits it.

Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 02:15 PM
At least he admits it.

That's a criticism of OTHERS....he'd argue he doesn't do it.

Amnorix
03-25-2005, 02:20 PM
I disagree with 90% of what Scalia says, not only in this, but in all contexts and in his decisions.

BUT I would not object to him as Chief Justice. He IS brilliant, and not completely out of the mainstream in terms of his views. He's hard right, but not nut-job right, in my opinion. He is vociferous in his views, however, so he would be crushed by the Democrats in nominating hearings.

I would strongly object to Thomas being elevated (there's rumors that since he's much younger, and a minority, he'd be a candidate, but he's scotched those saying eh doesn't want to go through the torturous process again). This is mainly because Thomas is by and large a dunce of a Supreme Court Justice.

(note, not a dunce compared to most people, but just not a very good justice).

Boozer
03-25-2005, 02:31 PM
The only legitimate criticism I've heard of a possible "Chief Scalia" was voiced in a recent Atlantic Monthly article lauding Rehnquist. Basically, the author complimented the Chief's ability to build and lead pragmatic majorities, contrasted with Scalia's usual behavior of writing a scathing "sky is falling/culture war" dissent, when a slightly toned-down version might have been the majority opinion. I don't think that would keep Scalia from being a worth Chief, albeit possibly less effective than Rehnquist.

Amnorix
03-25-2005, 02:31 PM
In answer to your question, Scalia is not "wrong". He just has a different philosophy regarding proper interpretation of the Constitution and the scope/role/power of the Supreme Court.

This is NOT a new issue. This issue goes all the way back to the beginning of the republic. Initially the battle was fought more over the power of the federal government vis-a-vis the states. That argument lasted for about 75 years, and was ultimately resolved in many ways by the Civil War (many aspects of which, I note, were called unconstitutional by the then-Southern dominated Supreme Court).

Amnorix
03-25-2005, 02:33 PM
The only legitimate criticism I've heard of a possible "Chief Scalia" was voiced in a recent Atlantic Monthly article lauding Rehnquist. Basically, the author complimented the Chief's ability to build and lead pragmatic majorities, contrasted with Scalia's usual behavior of writing a scathing "sky is falling/culture war" dissent, when a slightly toned-down version might have been the majority opinion. I don't think that would keep Scalia from being a worth Chief, albeit possibly less effective than Rehnquist.

I agree with this, but I note that for much of his pre-CJ career, Rehnquist was equally "on an island" on the SC.

Frankly, Rehnquist is not much more hard-right than Scalia.

And, just as frankly, if Scalia is poor at management and unable to build coalitions of 5 votes to support his views, then I would be all the more supportive of his elevation, rather than an effective hard-right coalition builder.

Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 02:40 PM
I disagree with 90% of what Scalia says, not only in this, but in all contexts and in his decisions..



The basis for your disagreement would be what, precisely? I'm really interested in an intelligent disection of his view as to the proper role of judges and the judiciary.

I appreciate your candor, and admire your honest assesment of Scalia though. Thanks. :thumb:

Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 02:44 PM
In answer to your question, Scalia is not "wrong". He just has a different philosophy regarding proper interpretation of the Constitution and the scope/role/power of the Supreme Court.

This is NOT a new issue. This issue goes all the way back to the beginning of the republic. Initially the battle was fought more over the power of the federal government vis-a-vis the states. That argument lasted for about 75 years, and was ultimately resolved in many ways by the Civil War (many aspects of which, I note, were called unconstitutional by the then-Southern dominated Supreme Court).

I agree. Some seem to equate philosophical disagreement, with being "wrong" though.

This issue is somewhat rhetorical with me, but I am looking for substantive criticism of WHY his philosophy is wrong. It's come to my attention that his philosophy and view of jurisprudence is, in the minds of some, no longer valid. That it's either antiquated, or a lie. I'm just looking for "substance" to those implications by others.

jettio
03-25-2005, 04:41 PM
William Howard Taft was the President for Chris'sakes and he served as Chief Justice for the 1920's.

Supreme Court has always been subject to politics.

Scalia would not even be on the Court but for politics, and he is the one that goes on hunting trips with politicians.

And the curbs on Police abuse brought about by the Warren Court is much more in keeping with the framer's intent than the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendment jursiprudence that preceeded it, by a f*ckin' longshot.

That is what is wrong with his speech.

patteeu
03-25-2005, 05:56 PM
I like Scalia. He'd make a great Chief Justice. I'd almost prefer Clarence Thomas though because he'd drive the left nuts. It would be a helluva confirmation show.

Michael Michigan
03-25-2005, 05:57 PM
I like Scalia. He'd make a great Chief Justice. I'd almost prefer Clarence Thomas though because he'd drive the left nuts. It would be a helluva confirmation show.


Who put this pubic hair on my Coke can?

Boozer
03-25-2005, 06:30 PM
Who put this pubic hair on my Coke can?

The fact that I didn't ask this in a Q&A session w/ Thomas at KU this year is a testament to how much I've matured.






I really had to restrain myself, though. It was a close one.

jAZ
03-25-2005, 07:06 PM
That's a criticism of OTHERS....he'd argue he doesn't do it.
You've answered your own question.

:clap:

Amnorix
03-25-2005, 08:07 PM
The basis for your disagreement would be what, precisely? I'm really interested in an intelligent disection of his view as to the proper role of judges and the judiciary.

I appreciate your candor, and admire your honest assesment of Scalia though. Thanks. :thumb:

This is impossible to answer in less than an hour. Imagine having Ralph Reed and Jesse Jackson at a meeting to discuss "the basis for their disagreements". It's not quite that bad, but pretty close.

Let's just say our entire philosophies are quite different.

Mr. Kotter
03-25-2005, 08:31 PM
This is impossible to answer in less than an hour. Imagine having Ralph Reed and Jesse Jackson at a meeting to discuss "the basis for their disagreements". It's not quite that bad, but pretty close.

Let's just say our entire philosophies are quite different.

I understand; would it suffice to say that both are legitimate and reasonable views...or do you feel Scalia is truly misguided or deliberately misleading?