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View Full Version : ESPN Total Access news on Surtain trade...


melbar
03-28-2005, 06:39 PM
They just reported that we CAN trade our newly acquired 3rd round pick for Surtain , and it may just be a matter of working out the contract if we are willing to give it up! I've always thought you couldnt , and i've seen it widely reported that that was so , but they definately said that we CAN trade our newly acquired #99 overall pick. If they are willing there is definately NO reason to not trade for Surtain, but will he negotiate a reasonable contract for less that 7 million a year?! :thumb:

Bwana
03-28-2005, 06:42 PM
Hmmm? Well that's good news if true.

Mr. Laz
03-28-2005, 06:46 PM
They just reported that we CAN trade our newly acquired 3rd round pick for Surtain , and it may just be a matter of working out the contract if we are willing to give it up! I've always thought you couldnt , and i've seen it widely reported that that was so , but they definately said that we CAN trade our newly acquired #99 overall pick. If they are willing there is definately NO reason to not trade for Surtain, but will he negotiate a reasonable contract for less that 7 million a year?! :thumb:

unless they have change the rule, ESPN is full of it

Frankie
03-28-2005, 06:47 PM
Hmmm? Well that's good news if true.

You ain't kidding dude.

But I think melbar is.

And that would be a fairly sick joke for this forum.

BIG_DADDY
03-28-2005, 06:47 PM
Outstanding, hope that's the case.

Digital Takawira
03-28-2005, 06:47 PM
It wasn't ESPN, it was Adam Schefter on NFL Network.

Bwana
03-28-2005, 06:54 PM
It wasn't ESPN, it was Adam Schefter on NFL Network.

Hmm, I think we're hosed then.

Taco John
03-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Schefter commonly gets these little details wrong...

Unless they changed a rule, teams are not allowed to trade compensatory picks.

Taco John
03-28-2005, 06:56 PM
Also... ESPN Total Access?

Tribal Warfare
03-28-2005, 07:35 PM
next up a Derrick Johnson slip in range for a KC trade up to occur :grovel:

DTLB58
03-28-2005, 07:45 PM
IF we can trade it, Miami has to accept it. Saban wants their 2nd rounder back that they gave last year to Philadelphia for A.J. Feeley.

Mile High Mania
03-28-2005, 07:47 PM
Comp picks cannot be traded.

HolmeZz
03-28-2005, 08:12 PM
They could tell us who they want on draft day, pick that player with oue comp pick, then trade the rights to that player for Surtain. ;)

Phobia
03-28-2005, 08:15 PM
Adam Schefter probably thinks teams are allowed to cheat due to the beat he used to cover.

Woodrow Call
03-28-2005, 08:17 PM
Adam Schefter probably thinks teams are allowed to cheat due to the beat he used to cover.

:)

melbar
03-28-2005, 08:27 PM
It wasn't ESPN, it was Adam Schefter on NFL Network.

Ya, sorry , I was running out the door to take my wife to the pharmacy and only had a second to post ...I changed it in edit.
I'll watch again when they replay tonight, but I got the impression that he heard from someone that they were considering trading the 3rd now , but currently we have only offered a 4th.
Why not a 4th and one of our 3 5ths? What kind of quality are they expecting out of these low round picks?

Taco John
03-28-2005, 08:30 PM
Adam Schefter probably thinks teams are allowed to cheat due to the beat he used to cover.



I say! Top drawer!

melbar
03-28-2005, 08:37 PM
well, I thought I could edit...Oh well...

Chiefnj
03-28-2005, 08:47 PM
If I were Nick Saban, I'd hold onto Surtain for the 2nd round pick. The Chiefs third is the equivalent of a 2nd day pick. I'd rather have a pro bowl corner my first year in the NFL rather than an extremely late 3rd round pick.

BigChiefFan
03-28-2005, 08:54 PM
If I were Nick Saban, I'd hold onto Surtain for the 2nd round pick. The Chiefs third is the equivalent of a 2nd day pick. I'd rather have a pro bowl corner my first year in the NFL rather than an extremely late 3rd round pick.
As much leverage as Saban has, Carl actually has some, too. He knows they need many oicks and they want to get rid of Surtain. I think Carl can pull this off for lower than our second rounder.

melbar
03-28-2005, 08:58 PM
Why are they holding on so tightly to our numerous 2nd day picks? Package the 3rd and a 5th or 6th , get a little creative here!

Chiefnj
03-28-2005, 09:01 PM
As much leverage as Saban has, Carl actually has some, too. He knows they need many oicks and they want to get rid of Surtain. I think Carl can pull this off for lower than our second rounder.

If draft picks are his primary concern he can get more and better quality picks falling back just a bit in the first round. When you are picking in the upper 90's you are lucky to get a good special teams player.

BigChiefFan
03-28-2005, 09:05 PM
If draft picks are his primary concern he can get more and better quality picks falling back just a bit in the first round. When you are picking in the upper 90's you are lucky to get a good special teams player.
I just think Carl thinks he can get Surtain for cheaper than the 2nd round compensation. He's damn sure going to try anyway. I'm just glad to hear we are serious about getting Surtain, that's the best news I've heard in a while regarding the Chiefs.

Chiefnj
03-28-2005, 09:14 PM
I just think Carl thinks he can get Surtain for cheaper than the 2nd round compensation. He's damn sure going to try anyway. I'm just glad to hear we are serious about getting Surtain, that's the best news I've heard in a while regarding the Chiefs.

I've been a Chief fan too long to get my hopes up one iota that the Surtain deal will happen. I just don't see them spending the money.

Mr. Laz
03-28-2005, 09:19 PM
I just think Carl thinks he can get Surtain for cheaper than the 2nd round compensation. He's damn sure going to try anyway. I'm just glad to hear we are serious about getting Surtain, that's the best news I've heard in a while regarding the Chiefs.

http://www2.hi.net/s4/images/sblollipop.gif

BigChiefFan
03-28-2005, 09:23 PM
http://www2.hi.net/s4/images/sblollipop.gif
You bet. I drink the kool-aid all the time. ROFL

Mr. Laz
03-28-2005, 09:30 PM
You bet. I drink the kool-aid all the time. ROFL

http://www.strangecult.com/pisser/koolaid/km_picture_new.jpg

RINGLEADER
03-28-2005, 11:52 PM
I still think we're going to have to give a second for Surtain. Now whether that's a second next year (not likely) or our second for Surtain and Miami's third (more likely IMO) I don't know, but I do think we're picking Surtain with our second round pick if we get him.

OldTownChief
03-29-2005, 12:08 AM
I say! Top drawer!

http://home.earthlink.net/~eglweb/cpstuff/TJsig.jpg

Taco John
03-29-2005, 12:24 AM
Why are they holding on so tightly to our numerous 2nd day picks? Package the 3rd and a 5th or 6th , get a little creative here!



It's a pretty weak draft this year. I don't think late round picks are going to move many teams.

HolmeZz
03-29-2005, 12:43 AM
It's a weak TOP HEAVY draft. The draft, as a whole, has very good depth.

Phobia
03-29-2005, 12:47 AM
It's a pretty weak draft this year. I don't think late round picks are going to move many teams.

But more importantly, it would take nearly all our second day picks and then some to equal the value of our 2nd rounder. Second day picks aren't really very valuable in terms of trade value.

melbar
03-29-2005, 12:49 AM
It's a pretty weak draft this year. I don't think late round picks are going to move many teams.
I think there is a lot of talent in the first 2 rounds. My question is why wont WE give up any of our numerous second day picks?

melbar
03-29-2005, 12:52 AM
But more importantly, it would take nearly all our second day picks and then some to equal the value of our 2nd rounder. Second day picks aren't really very valuable in terms of trade value.
Yet players like Sharper are being offered for a 4th. :rolleyes:

Rausch
03-29-2005, 01:17 AM
But more importantly, it would take nearly all our second day picks and then some to equal the value of our 2nd rounder. .

Not OUR 2nd rounder, but your average 2nd rounder.

If healthy, Surtain is a lock.

Trade the pick... :mad:

melbar
03-29-2005, 01:21 AM
By the way just watch the repeat and he says "If the Chiefs are willing to trade THIS pick(#99), they can probably get the deal done.

htismaqe
03-29-2005, 05:25 AM
http://www2.hi.net/s4/images/sblollipop.gif

They've begun eating their young...

:D

philfree
03-29-2005, 06:54 AM
The Dolphins are asking for the Chiefs' second-round pick, and the Chiefs have reportedly offered a fourth-rounder. The Chiefs recently gained a third-round compensatory pick from the NFL to cover Tait's loss in free-agency, but comp picks can't be traded.

That's a quote from Adam Teicher's latest article. I new we couldn't trade compensitory picks I think Shefter just proved he knows very little about what he reports on. Idiot....how disapointing that the NFL Network would allow that to even air.

PhilFree :arrow:

Chief Henry
03-29-2005, 07:37 AM
Surtain in a Chiefs uniform would help our pathetic defense greatly.

Mark M
03-29-2005, 07:57 AM
Why not trade the 2nd for Surtain, then move down in the 1st to pick up another 2nd?

I don't have the pick value chart to see just how many spots it would take to do that, but it's an option to be sure.

Either that, or trade this year's fourth and next year's third (or even second).

Regardless, Surtain is a known player and I can't for the life of me seeing KC getting anyone better with those picks in the draft.

MM
~~:arrow:

ClearmontChief
03-29-2005, 08:29 AM
Why not keep our mid-2nd pick, trade down in the 1st for an additional 2nd pick (later in the 2nd) and then trade it on draft day for Surtain. We could still get Browner or Marlin Jackson with a pick in the 20-25 range of the 1st round. Get a linebacker in the 2nd with our pick.

Wait till draft day. First, trade down in the 1st. Probably can get a 2005 2nd, and maybe a 2006 2nd or 3rd from someone. Immediately trade the acquired 2nd round to Miami for Surtain. Take Browner with our later 1st round pick. Take Ruud with our 2nd.

Our D-line is solid, that would shore up the LB corps (Bell, Ruud, Fujita) and the CBs are set with Warfield & Surtain, Browner @ Nickel. Wesley/Knight @ safety.

Cut Woods, cut Bartee, injury settlement for Maz. PUP Barber until he can come back then Fujita's, Beisel & Mitchell are backups.

htismaqe
03-29-2005, 08:33 AM
Why not keep our mid-2nd pick, trade down in the 1st for an additional 2nd pick (later in the 2nd) and then trade it on draft day for Surtain. We could still get Browner or Marlin Jackson with a pick in the 20-25 range of the 1st round. Get a linebacker in the 2nd with our pick.

Wait till draft day. First, trade down in the 1st. Probably can get a 2005 2nd, and maybe a 2006 2nd or 3rd from someone. Immediately trade the acquired 2nd round to Miami for Surtain. Take Browner with our later 1st round pick. Take Ruud with our 2nd.

Our D-line is solid, that would shore up the LB corps (Bell, Ruud, Fujita) and the CBs are set with Warfield & Surtain, Browner @ Nickel. Wesley/Knight @ safety.

Cut Woods, cut Bartee, injury settlement for Maz. PUP Barber until he can come back then Fujita's, Beisel & Mitchell are backups.

Although I'd love to have Carlos Rogers, I think you've made the case here.

Trading down in the 1st would give us the ability to draft Marlin Jackson AND get Patrick Surtain.

I'm on the bandwagon!

philfree
03-29-2005, 08:38 AM
Don't trade down to far and take a 3rd. Miami wants a 1st day pick so in the end I bet they'd take a 3rd or maybe a 3rd and a 5th.

PhilFree :arrow:

Mark M
03-29-2005, 08:40 AM
Don't trade down to far and take a 3rd. Miami wants a 1st day pick so in the end I bet they'd take a 3rd or maybe a 3rd and a 5th.

PhilFree :arrow:

Which would be great if KC actually had a third rounder they could trade.

MM
~~:shrug:

ClearmontChief
03-29-2005, 08:43 AM
There you go too, Phil. Trade down just a couple of slots in the 1st (for a 2005 3rd), maybe still get Rogers, still have our 2nd, and have a 3rd to give Miami for Surtain.

This thing can break lots of different ways on draft day. Patience, if possible.

philfree
03-29-2005, 08:43 AM
Which would be great if KC actually had a third rounder they could trade.

MM
~~:shrug:

We would have a 3rd to trade if we traded down for one as I suggested. See what I'm saying?


PhilFree :arrow:

Mark M
03-29-2005, 08:45 AM
We would have a 3rd to trade if we traded down for one as I suggested. See what I'm saying?


PhilFree :arrow:

My name is Mark M, and I'm a moron.

Eleven more steps to go ...

MM
~~:redface:

philfree
03-29-2005, 08:47 AM
My name is Mark M, and I'm a moron.

Eleven more steps to go ...

MM
~~:redface:

ROFL Have another cup of coffee, you'll be fine.

PhilFree :arrow:

PHOG
03-29-2005, 08:58 AM
St Losers could be a nice example..

They have their original 3rd RD pick (81st I believe), but also have the 2nd pick of the 3rd Rd(66th I think)..

They have the 19th pick in Rd 1..

But what player would they want to draft in order to trade up 4 spots?

chiefmachine
03-29-2005, 09:00 AM
Why are the Chiefs so worried about 1st day draft picks? When was the last time we got anything that has helped us win in the first day of draft???

ChiTown
03-29-2005, 09:05 AM
Why are the Chiefs so worried about 1st day draft picks? When was the last time we got anything that has helped us win in the first day of draft???

Most recently, Larry Johnson looks like a helluva pick at #27 in the 1st rd - 2003.

chiefmachine
03-29-2005, 09:08 AM
That was going to be my only exception. Larry Johnson a few years ago. But he was a 1st rounder and i am hard pressed to find anything else in the first day that panned!

ClearmontChief
03-29-2005, 09:15 AM
PHOG, most mock drafts I've seen have St. Louis taking a Corner. So, that would mean possibly giving up one of our targeted CBs.

PHOG
03-29-2005, 09:23 AM
PHOG, most mock drafts I've seen have St. Louis taking a Corner. So, that would mean possibly giving up one of our targeted CBs.

That's true, but the purpose of trading down for the top 3rd rd pick would be to trade that pick for Surtain...while keeping our 2nd Rd pick and only losing 4 spots in Rd 1.

OTOH, I've seen a lot of mocks with the lambs taking Jamaal Brown in the 1st, also..

ClearmontChief
03-29-2005, 09:30 AM
Well, I'd make that trade Phog. We'd have a great 3rd to ship to Miami, still get a Browner or Marlin Jackson or Linebacker @ 19, and still have our 2nd for the linebacker (or CB).

chiefmachine
03-29-2005, 09:37 AM
Chiefs fans! With the exception of LJ 2-3 years ago in the first round none the less. Why is Carl Peterson so worried about loosing a 2nd or 3rd round pick? The last time we got anything out of our 1-3 rounds in the draft on DDD was Jerome Woods, and tongue in 1997!!! COME ON CARL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PHOG
03-29-2005, 09:39 AM
Well, I'd make that trade Phog. We'd have a great 3rd to ship to Miami, still get a Browner or Marlin Jackson or Linebacker @ 19, and still have our 2nd for the linebacker (or CB).

Yeah, it would be a good trade, and for everything to fall into place like that for us would almost(?) be unheard of.... :bong:

PHOG
03-29-2005, 09:44 AM
Chiefs fans! With the exception of LJ 2-3 years ago in the first round none the less. Why is Carl Peterson so worried about loosing a 2nd or 3rd round pick? The last time we got anything out of our 1-3 rounds in the draft on DDD was Jerome Woods, and tongue in 1997!!! COME ON CARL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who knows? Maybe he's entertaining thoughts of trading up to get a player? :shrug:

sd4chiefs
03-29-2005, 10:06 AM
I was really pissed when we traded our 1st round pick for Trend Green but that now looks like a good deal.

Lzen
03-29-2005, 10:14 AM
Chiefs fans! With the exception of LJ 2-3 years ago in the first round none the less. Why is Carl Peterson so worried about loosing a 2nd or 3rd round pick? The last time we got anything out of our 1-3 rounds in the draft on DDD was Jerome Woods, and tongue in 1997!!! COME ON CARL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I agree that the Chiefs haven't been very good at picking up quality 2nd rounders, lets at least get our facts straight. I've only included 1st and 2nd rounders because I can't remember most of the 3rd rounders.

- Woods and Tongue were in the 1996 draft
- Tony Gonzalez(1) and Kevin Lockett(2) were in 1997 (TG is great and KL was not bad, IMO
- 1998 Victor Riley(1) and ??? (Riley was a solid RT)
- 1999 John Tait(1) and ??? (Tait was definitely a failure at LT but turned into a very good RT)
- 2000 Sly Morris(1) and ??? (Morris had injury problems so it is hard to judge what he would've/could've become. But he did have the best season ever for a rookie receiver in a Chiefs uniform.
- 2001 1st rounder traded for Green and 2nd rounder given to St. Louis for Vermeil, right?
- 2002 Sims(1) and Eddie Freeman(2) (Sims has not lived up to expectations so far and Freeman was a definite bust)
- 2003 Larry Johnson(1) and Kawika Mitchell(2) (Johnson turned out to be a very good pick, IMO and the jury is still out on Mitchell, albeit it's not looking good for Kawika)
- 2004 Kris Wilson(2b) and Junior Siavi(2a) (Jury is still out as both players suffered through injuries last year. At this point, we know nothing about these 2 players)

Lzen
03-29-2005, 10:19 AM
Ok, here are some of the 3rd rounders that I can remember.

- 2001 Eric Downing and Snoop Minnis (Neither player really ever gave the Chiefs much of anything)

- 2003 Julian Battle (Not looking good)

Brock
03-29-2005, 10:24 AM
The Chiefs are offering a fourth rounder. That is probably all they will offer.

keg in kc
03-29-2005, 10:26 AM
You know, we can talk all we want about trading whatever picks because we haven't had much success in the past, but the front office ain't gonna be thinking like that. And they shouldn't be; that's a loser's mentality. They're going to spend countless hours and dollars studying film and conducting interviews hoping -- and expecting -- to get stars and perennial all pros with their picks, and I wouldn't want them thinking any other way. In other words, trade for Surtain based on his value in this year's market, don't just throw away picks because we have this defeatist attitude that we can't draft for shit anyway, so just give away the farm.

whoman69
03-29-2005, 10:32 AM
Chiefs fans! With the exception of LJ 2-3 years ago in the first round none the less. Why is Carl Peterson so worried about loosing a 2nd or 3rd round pick? The last time we got anything out of our 1-3 rounds in the draft on DDD was Jerome Woods, and tongue in 1997!!! COME ON CARL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can't just go and assume that we're going to fug up the pick. It was only in the last half dozen years that Carl has sucked at the draft. We drafted Tony G., Jerome Woods, Dale Carter, and Derrick Thomas in the 1st, Tim Gruhard, Reggie Tongue in the 2nd and for serviceable players which one would expect in the 3rd we've gotten Will Shields, Tamarick Vanouver, Lake Dawson, John Browning, Greg Wesley and Gary Stills. Its not impossible that Carl would return to his early success in the draft.

whoman69
03-29-2005, 10:34 AM
The Chiefs are offering a fourth rounder. That is probably all they will offer.
There's no way you can know that. For as low as the pick seems to us, its the most that anyone has offered.

PHOG
03-29-2005, 10:35 AM
Ok, here are some of the 3rd rounders that I can remember.

- 2001 Eric Downing and Snoop Minnis (Neither player really ever gave the Chiefs much of anything)

- 2003 Julian Battle (Not looking good)

Wesley '00, Stills '99, Shields '93, Fox '04, Browning '96, Battle '03

These are the ones still listed on the roster.. :shrug:

Frankie
03-29-2005, 10:56 AM
Why not a 4th and one of our 3 5ths? What kind of quality are they expecting out of these low round picks?

More realistically, a 4 a 5 and a 7.

petegz28
03-29-2005, 11:03 AM
Why is it even a point of contention? A 2nd round pick for a pro-bowl corner? I would do it in a heartbeat considering we have no real corners on our team!

Frankie
03-29-2005, 11:06 AM
If I were Nick Saban, I'd hold onto Surtain for the 2nd round pick. The Chiefs third is the equivalent of a 2nd day pick.

Pssst... hush up. The Dolphins front office might hear you.

Ebolapox
03-29-2005, 11:07 AM
http://www.strangecult.com/pisser/koolaid/km_picture_new.jpg



ROFL

that was my avatar for a while... one of my personal favorites

-EB-

Frankie
03-29-2005, 11:13 AM
As much leverage as Saban has, Carl actually has some, too. He knows they need many oicks and they want to get rid of Surtain. I think Carl can pull this off for lower than our second rounder.

Agreed. (Although I don't know what "oicks" are. What ever they are, give it to them. ;) )

Frankie
03-29-2005, 11:44 AM
I still think we're going to have to give a second for Surtain. Now whether that's a second next year (not likely) or our second for Surtain and Miami's third (more likely IMO) I don't know, but I do think we're picking Surtain with our second round pick if we get him.

"Our second for Surtain and Miami's third."

Hmmm :hmmm: That I could learn to live with.

Frankie
03-29-2005, 11:57 AM
Well, I'd make that trade Phog. We'd have a great 3rd to ship to Miami, still get a Browner or Marlin Jackson or Linebacker @ 19, and still have our 2nd for the linebacker (or CB).

I loooove "wheeling and dealing" threads. :p This thread is full of good ones. I'm having fun.

PHOG
03-29-2005, 12:04 PM
I loooove "wheeling and dealing" threads. :p This thread is full of good ones. I'm having fun.

Yeah, well, I just checked the draft pick value chart, and we'd be about 170 points away from getting this done, even if the lambs were interested.. :banghead:

Our 1st =1000
Their 1st =900
Their 3rd rd (66th)= 270, if I'm not mistaken

:hmmm:

On another note, I see the 13th pick is 1200, while the 14th pick is 1100, even though we all finished with the same record. :cuss: :mad:

Frankie
03-29-2005, 12:05 PM
Why is it even a point of contention? A 2nd round pick for a pro-bowl corner? I would do it in a heartbeat considering we have no real corners on our team!

No offense. But that's probably one of the reasons you are not a GM in the NFL. We all have our scenarios we think would better the Chiefs. But the bitter reality is we do not know most of the factors CP has to deal with.

htismaqe
03-29-2005, 12:50 PM
Why is it even a point of contention? A 2nd round pick for a pro-bowl corner? I would do it in a heartbeat considering we have no real corners on our team!

The point of contention right now is Surtain's contract demand.

Mr. Kotter
03-29-2005, 12:53 PM
Why is it even a point of contention? A 2nd round pick for a pro-bowl corner? I would do it in a heartbeat considering we have no real corners on our team!

I agree. There is some thought though the Dolphins will cut him for cap reasons....I'm not convinced of that.

HolmeZz
03-29-2005, 12:53 PM
I think teams are expecting Miami to just cut Surtain, which is why a 4th rounder from the Chiefs is the highest bid on the table.