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tk13
03-30-2005, 01:08 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/11261432.htm

Shields stays mum on future plans

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star


The mystery surrounding guard Will Shields and his plans to play for the Chiefs next season only thickened Tuesday.

Shields didn't attend the Chiefs' first voluntary conditioning session of the offseason, saying later by telephone that he had another commitment. He also said he was “not at liberty” to discuss his intentions regarding next season.

Coach Dick Vermeil, in discussing plans to move John Welbourn from tackle to guard, previously indicated some uncertainty over Shields' plans.

“Will Shields hasn't told me 100 percent that he plans to return, though I think he will,” Vermeil said earlier this week.

The Chiefs are willing to be patient with Shields, who keeps in good physical condition and hasn't missed a game since joining the team in 1993.

But if Shields should retire and not to return for what would be his 13th season, the loss of the 10-time Pro Bowler would leave a huge void. Shields has been a pillar of what is generally considered the NFL's best offensive line.

Welbourn probably would replace him.

Whatever his plans, Shields wasn't ready to share them on Tuesday.

“It's early in the offseason,” he said. “It's only the first day. There's just not much to say about it right now.”

SBK
03-30-2005, 01:10 AM
Well, lets hope he comes back.

Wallcrawler
03-30-2005, 01:12 AM
Uh......WHAT!?!?!!?


I dont like how that is sounding.

Douche Baggins
03-30-2005, 01:14 AM
If Shields decides to retire, IMO it's an indication he thinks the team isn't going anywhere in 2005.

ZootedGranny
03-30-2005, 01:14 AM
Not cool Zeus, not cool.

oaklandhater
03-30-2005, 01:21 AM
If Shields decides to retire, IMO it's an indication he thinks the team isn't going anywhere in 2005.


Then me and sheilds have something in common

tk13
03-30-2005, 01:24 AM
Sounds like we need to make a move or two so Shields is Surtain to return....

Douche Baggins
03-30-2005, 01:25 AM
Sounds like we need to make a move or two so Shields is Surtain to return....

Here you go, tk13, this glass of warm rep will help you fall asleep.

beer bacon
03-30-2005, 01:38 AM
This is bad. We would be severely hurt without Shields.

On the other hand. This could turn out to be a positive. There are a lot of ifs involved. If what Shields is waiting for is more action by our FO to improve the team. If he makes that perfectly clear to Carl & Company. If Carl listens and signs Surtain. If if if.

Don't leave us Shields. We neeeeeeed you.

DaWolf
03-30-2005, 01:57 AM
Well this certainly makes the Welbourne deal look a lot better.

I think Shields will be back. And I don't think it is because of him waiting to see if the team makes more moves in free agency. I think it is just a veteran who wants to take it easy and come when he wants to come, and if he said "well yeah I'm coming back, but I don't feel like joining OTA's right now" it doesn't look good. Plus, he's probably making a lot of money this year, which would entice him to keep going.

That being said, if he drags this out past the draft and viable free agency period and then decides to retire leaving us in the cold, then it would be bush league. But that doesn't sound like something Shields would do...

beer bacon
03-30-2005, 02:02 AM
Well this certainly makes the Welbourne deal look a lot better.

I think Shields will be back. And I don't think it is because of him waiting to see if the team makes more moves in free agency. I think it is just a veteran who wants to take it easy and come when he wants to come, and if he said "well yeah I'm coming back, but I don't feel like joining OTA's right now" it doesn't look good. Plus, he's probably making a lot of money this year, which would entice him to keep going.

That being said, if he drags this out past the draft and viable free agency period and then decides to retire leaving us in the cold, then it would be bush league. But that doesn't sound like something Shields would do...

I am going to keep on hoping that Shields has delivered an ultimatum to Carl that he either signs Surtain or he will retire. Don't crush my dreams.

Gravedigger
03-30-2005, 05:25 AM
This seems like more media hype and speculation turning words the other way to make us all wonder. Why wouldn't shields be back? And why would you retire now of all times in the offseason unless it's due to health problems and I don't forsee any of those. I used to work at Little Caesars and him and his wife would come in about once every week or so and get a large thin supreme and a large thin meat pizza. He is a real nice guy.

milkman
03-30-2005, 05:38 AM
This seems like more media hype and speculation turning words the other way to make us all wonder. Why wouldn't shields be back? And why would you retire now of all times in the offseason unless it's due to health problems and I don't forsee any of those. I used to work at Little Caesars and him and his wife would come in about once every week or so and get a large thin supreme and a large thin meat pizza. He is a real nice guy.

Dammit Carl!
You're rubbing off on the players.

Will has the money to buy a real pizza, and he settles for the 2nd tier cheap stuff! :cuss:

Chan93lx50
03-30-2005, 05:48 AM
Son of a b*tch

Not good

Bootlegged
03-30-2005, 05:51 AM
He'll be back.. He just wants some cuddling from DV.

milkman
03-30-2005, 05:59 AM
I am going to keep on hoping that Shields has delivered an ultimatum to Carl that he either signs Surtain or he will retire. Don't crush my dreams.

I could see it.
After years of the battle, striving to be the best, he could decide he wants to see the same commitment from the FO that he's given.

If the Chiefs don't make a couple more moves in FA to bolster the D, He could say screw it, I'm done.

siberian khatru
03-30-2005, 06:02 AM
Gulp.

Coogs
03-30-2005, 06:08 AM
He is in his mid-30's. His pockets are full of cash. And he is healthy. I could see him walking away. Look at Roaf. You wonder how that guy is going to make it the rest of his life. He can hardly walk at all.

King_Chief_Fan
03-30-2005, 06:12 AM
Well this certainly makes the Welbourne deal look a lot better.

I think Shields will be back. And I don't think it is because of him waiting to see if the team makes more moves in free agency. I think it is just a veteran who wants to take it easy and come when he wants to come, and if he said "well yeah I'm coming back, but I don't feel like joining OTA's right now" it doesn't look good. Plus, he's probably making a lot of money this year, which would entice him to keep going.

That being said, if he drags this out past the draft and viable free agency period and then decides to retire leaving us in the cold, then it would be bush league. But that doesn't sound like something Shields would do...

He would never pull a Ricky Williams........would he?

Sparhawk
03-30-2005, 07:09 AM
I think this is just a case of the media trying to drum up some news, after all there isn't anything else to fire fans up, get em to read the paper, etc.

tomahawk kid
03-30-2005, 07:10 AM
Big Willie style will be back in '05.

I'm subscribing to the "I don't want to participate in OTA's theory".

He did the same type thing in 2000, when he waited to sign his franchise tender until right before the season started. I think this is just another veteran wanting some additional time off.

I have a hard time believing that Shields would leave us in the lurch. Sounds to me like Tit-less needed to fill some copy space and this was an easy angle to stir up.

Chiefnj
03-30-2005, 07:13 AM
Veteran players often do everything they can to miss mini-camp and workouts. Some guys are good enough to do it, and have earned that right.

Rain Man
03-30-2005, 07:13 AM
I'm already clearing out a corner of my bedroom so I can curl up in a fetal position if Will retires.


Senia, if you still lurk at chiefsplanet, make him come back, okay? Please?

KCJake
03-30-2005, 07:15 AM
This isn't good :shake:

Big Chief Homer
03-30-2005, 07:49 AM
maybe hes as upset as the rest of us carl got his extention.

Wile_E_Coyote
03-30-2005, 08:01 AM
'93-'04..12x16=192
8 games from having 200 starts without missing for injuries. I don't care if your not about stats, thats one hell of a stat to have

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 08:52 AM
If I'm Shields, and I see that Gonzo and Priest are skipping, I say, well why the hell should I show up? So it could just be that.

But with Vermiel publicly stating that Welbourn is moving back to guard, and then Shields not showing up for the conditioning program, it sure sounds like he's outta here. If he is retiring, he may have to wait until after 6/1 to sign the papers so that his pro-rated signing bonus money can be partially pushed to next year. But it might be helpful to have his $5 mil base salary or whatever erased from the 2005 cap, as long as Welbourn can step in and make a seamless transition. With he and Morton off the books after 6/1, we could have our pick of the defensive players cut in June (J. Sharper, T. Pryce, etc.).

Phobia
03-30-2005, 08:58 AM
Shields is a possible HOFer. There will be no "seamless transition".

Bob Dole
03-30-2005, 09:03 AM
But it might be helpful to have his $5 mil base salary or whatever...

$4.3 million.

R&GHomer
03-30-2005, 09:06 AM
He is in his mid-30's. His pockets are full of cash. And he is healthy. I could see him walking away. Look at Roaf. You wonder how that guy is going to make it the rest of his life. He can hardly walk at all.

Shite... How's Roaf going to make it? If I were him, I’d buy a little rascal with a V8 super charger and cruise control. It would also have a built in HDTV, satellite dish, Microwave and refrigerator.

Rain Man
03-30-2005, 09:07 AM
But it might be helpful to have his $5 mil base salary or whatever erased from the 2005 cap...


I'd much rather have Shields.


$4.3 million


Senia or Will, if you're out there, let me offer something. I'll kick in another $5 if Will won't retire. Between me and Lamar Hunt, that'll push you up to $4,300,005. C'mon, you can't turn that down.

I should point out too that my share won't be deferred. I'll pay you now.

keg in kc
03-30-2005, 09:09 AM
I can't believe he'd wait until April to announce he was going to retire if he was actually going to. Doesn't meld with his rep as a team guy to leave the team hanging like that.

CoMoChief
03-30-2005, 09:23 AM
hes gonna be back not to worry. he has more than enough gas left in the tank and i think were gonna give him something to stay for in the near future.

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 09:39 AM
Shields is a possible HOFer. There will be no "seamless transition".

He's an OG making $4.3 mil. You wonder why we don't have any money to pay for defense? There's your answer. I'm as impressed by Shields' accolades as anyone, but I've had season tickets since '89 and honestly, just from watching the games without going back and checking film, I don't see any difference between Shields and David Lutz, when he was the RG during the Okoye-Word thousand yard seasons.

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 09:40 AM
maybe hes as upset as the rest of us carl got his extention.
i hope so...


i hope shield goes into vermeil office and tells them he wants to see major defensive upgrades or there's no reason for him to return.

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 09:43 AM
He's an OG making $4.3 mil. You wonder why we don't have any money to pay for defense? There's your answer.
this is true...

we have a guard making left tackle money
we have a fullback making tailback money
we have a tightend making wide receiver money


this team is structured bassackwards

BigChiefFan
03-30-2005, 10:00 AM
I think Shields will be back, all though I don't like that he isn't saying much.

Chiefnj
03-30-2005, 10:04 AM
Great, now people are complaining about Shields and Gonzalez. Yeah, it sucks having the best TE and guard in the NFL.

BigChiefFan
03-30-2005, 10:06 AM
Great, now people are complaining about Shields and Gonzalez. Yeah, it sucks having the best TE and guard in the NFL.
Not everybody. I firmly believe Gonzo and Shields are worth every penny.

petegz28
03-30-2005, 10:07 AM
If Shields pulls this crap I will lose a ton of respect for him. This city has been nothing less than great to him. If he was or is going to retire he needs to spit it out NOW!

Mark M
03-30-2005, 10:07 AM
If Shields retires, it will just further bolster my theory that god hates the Chiefs and all of their fans.

Good thing we're all geniouses, otherwise we'd have no reason to live.

MM
~~:)

Mark M
03-30-2005, 10:09 AM
Not everybody. I firmly believe Gonzo and Shields are worth every penny.
Yep.

Frankly, anyone who thinks that the salaries of Shields and Gonzo are too much are simple-minded fugtards who should be taken out back and shot.

MM
~~:Poke: ;)

CosmicPal
03-30-2005, 10:10 AM
I hope he doesn't retire, it'd be heartbreaking to see him leave the game when a Super Bowl would have certainly made him a certain lock in the HOF and title as one of the best and most unselfish guards in the game.

keg in kc
03-30-2005, 10:13 AM
Irony: when some of the same voices who complain that we're too cheap to pay top dollar for free agents turn around and complain that we're paying too much to our most valuable players.

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 10:14 AM
Great, now people are complaining about Shields and Gonzalez. Yeah, it sucks having the best TE and guard in the NFL.
who's complaining about shields and gonzo?

NewChief
03-30-2005, 10:16 AM
Will retiring has been a worry of my "sources" all off season. I really hope he comes back next year. Like someone else said, I can't imagine him waiting this late to announce it, if he was going to retire.

BigChiefFan
03-30-2005, 10:17 AM
Shields: "Carl hasn't done enough on defense to make me want to come back. I've busted my ass for this organization for far too long only to see the laughingstock of defenses retained. Carl then comes out and says that we will be active in free agency. Two players, is active? He promised Green and the rest of us, we'd have a defense, well Carl...? Where's Surtain, Carl? Huh? Rolle?(laughs)I'm out of here and tell Carl to kiss my ass."



Just having a little fun.

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 10:18 AM
Yep.

Frankly, anyone who thinks that the salaries of Shields and Gonzo are too much are simple-minded fugtards who should be taken out back and shot.

MM
~~:Poke: ;)
then pull out the guns and start shooting at me cause 5 million is too much to pay a guard.


and 2.5 million is too much for a fullback


gonzo money is a little high... but we use him like a wide receiver so its workable.

Mark M
03-30-2005, 10:25 AM
then pull out the guns and start shooting at me cause 5 million is too much to pay a guard.


and 2.5 million is too much for a fullback


gonzo money is a little high... but we use him like a wide receiver so its workable.

:D Glad you didn't take it personal. :)

Frankly, I've got no issues with paying one of the best guards to EVER PLAY IN THE NFL just under $5 million. Sure, it may not a "glamour" position like LT, but ask any QB or RB how important a bad-assed interior lineman is worth, and I'll be they'd agree the salary is about right.

TRich is probably making too much, but I think that's because he made so little for so long. The guy is far and away the best blocking FB in football. IMHO, Priest wouldn't have nearly the success he's had without him.

While I'm still not happy about how Gonzo went about negotiating, he has proven that he no mere TE.

Just my opinions, of course ...

MM
~~:D

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 10:27 AM
Yep.

Frankly, anyone who thinks that the salaries of Shields and Gonzo are too much are simple-minded fugtards who should be taken out back and shot.

MM
~~:Poke: ;)

Can you name New England's starting guards, fugtard? Let's see, Damian Woody was their best guard two years ago, but he became a free agent and they let him walk because it's stupid to pay OG's big money. Then NE promptly went out and won another SB without him, fugtard. This year, they let another starting guard, Andruzzi, walk as a free agent, because they know that you don't pay OG's big money, fugtard.

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 10:29 AM
:D Glad you didn't take it personal. :)

Frankly, I've got no issues with paying one of the best guards to EVER PLAY IN THE NFL just under $5 million. Sure, it may not a "glamour" position like Lawrence Taylor , but ask any QB or RB how important a bad-assed interior lineman is worth, and I'll be they'd agree the salary is about right.
i wouldn't have a problem paying a guard 5 million per year either if we didn't have a salary cap. The problem is if you overpay 1 position you have to underpay another.

overpay at guard,fullback and tightend ... underpay at wide receiver,linebacker and cornerback.(for example)


it's not that i don't think shields,TRich and Gonzo are good. i just worry about the team financial structure and how it effects our ability to field a more complete team.

Chiefnj
03-30-2005, 10:32 AM
Can you name New England's starting guards, fugtard? Let's see, Damian Woody was their best guard two years ago, but he became a free agent and they let him walk because it's stupid to pay OG's big money. Then NE promptly went out and won another SB without him, fugtard. This year, they let another starting guard, Andruzzi, walk as a free agent, because they know that you don't pay OG's big money, fugtard.

They don't pay guards money because their team isn't built around their OL. Their team isn't designed for the offense to carry the defense.

Mark M
03-30-2005, 10:37 AM
Can you name New England's starting guards, fugtard? Let's see, Damian Woody was their best guard two years ago, but he became a free agent and they let him walk because it's stupid to pay OG's big money. Then NE promptly went out and won another SB without him, fugtard. This year, they let another starting guard, Andruzzi, walk as a free agent, because they know that you don't pay OG's big money, fugtard.
Can you take a joke, fugtard?

:shake:
They don't pay guards money because their team isn't built around their OL. Their team isn't designed for the offense to carry the defense.Pretty much.


The Chiefs wanted a great offense, and they paid for it at expense of the defense. The reverse was true in the 90's. Maybe some day they'll figure out it takes both.

MM
~~:shrug:

keg in kc
03-30-2005, 10:41 AM
i it's not that i don't think shields,TRich and Gonzo are good. i just worry about the team financial structure and how it effects our ability to field a more complete team.I don't think that's the problem we need to worry about. Those are all guys we developed, and I think to reward that kind of player is exactly the right way to go about business. It sends a good message to players both inside and outside our organization. Keep your stars, pay them what they deserve.

I think our problem in terms of fielding a complete team has to do with our utter inability to draft. I don't expect us to be perfect, you'll always need free agency to find a piece or two that you're missing, but, because of flopped pick after flopped pick, we're stuck trying to build an entire squad with free agents. We already built the offense that way, now we're trying to do it on defense. You can't win that way, I don't believe, at least not consistently. We may have one good season, if everything comes together, but to have longer-term success, a team has to have a solid core of draft picks. Which we don't appear to have. I don't see any young Will Shields' and Tony Gonazlez's on the roster. That's got to change.

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 10:45 AM
i wouldn't have a problem paying a guard 5 million per year either if we didn't have a salary cap. The problem is if you overpay 1 position you have to underpay another.

overpay at guard,fullback and tightend ... underpay at wide receiver,linebacker and cornerback.(for example)


it's not that i don't think shields,TRich and Gonzo are good. i just worry about the team financial structure and how it effects our ability to field a more complete team.


What he said.

With the salary cap in place, you cannot afford to draft a RB in the 1st round and then give your other RB a $10 mil bonus. Sometimes you have to make decisions with your head instead of your heart, unless you want to continue to be mediocre. We gave up a 3rd and 5th rounder for a competent OG who started 3 NFC championship games and makes reasonable money. You should not have a guy in front of him on the depth chart making $4.3 in base salary. Time to make a business decison. Thanks for the memories, Will. Unfortunately, you make too much money in the salary cap world.

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 10:46 AM
I don't think that's the problem we need to worry about. Those are all guys we developed, and I think to reward that kind of player is exactly the right way to go about business. It sends a good message to players both inside and outside our organization. Keep your stars, pay them what they deserve.

I think our problem in terms of fielding a complete team has to do with our utter inability to draft. I don't expect us to be perfect, you'll always need free agency to find a piece or two that you're missing, but, because of flopped pick after flopped pick, we're stuck trying to build an entire squad with free agents. We already built the offense that way, now we're trying to do it on defense. You can't win that way, I don't believe, at least not consistently. We may have one good season, if everything comes together, but to have longer-term success, a team has to have a solid core of draft picks. Which we don't appear to have. I don't see any young Will Shields' and Tony Gonazlez's on the roster. That's got to change.

true dat ... good drafting allows you to overpay wherever you need.


bad drafting means overpaying at any position can hurt you alot

Mark M
03-30-2005, 11:18 AM
With the salary cap in place, you cannot afford to draft a RB in the 1st round and then give your other RB a $10 mil bonus.
Sometimes you have to make decisions with your head instead of your heart, unless you want to continue to be mediocre.
LJ proved last year that he can be an effective back in the NFL, and the Chiefs have shored up that position for the future. That being said, I agree that it was a dumb pick and they should've waited for another draft.

We gave up a 3rd and 5th rounder for a competent OG who started 3 NFC championship games and makes reasonable money. You should not have a guy in front of him on the depth chart making $4.3 in base salary.
Actually, they got Welbourn to play RT, not be a backup to Shields. They realized, however, that he's a better guard, so are now moving him back over.

Time to make a business decison. Thanks for the memories, Will. Unfortunately, you make too much money in the salary cap world.
ROFL
It never ceases to amaze me that, once a player even hints at leaving or wanting more money, some fans pull the "well, we don't need him anyway!" card.

The money Shields makes has nothing to do with the Chiefs piss-poor defense. Their defense sucks ass because of:

1. Poor drafting—If the Sims, Battles and Mitchells of the world were any good, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

2. Re-signing players like Bartee, Hicks, and to some extent Woods and Wesley. The first two shouldn't even be on the team, and the last two shouldn't have gotten the $$ they did.

3. Poor coaching—How in the hell Guinta has a job is beyond me.

Trying to blame Shields, TRich and Gonzo ignores the true reasons why the Chiefs haven't had the success for which we all hope, dream and, in some cases, pray.

MM
~~:)

Rausch
03-30-2005, 11:32 AM
****...****...****...

The only Chief that I think deserves a superbowl more than Holmes and he might retire the year the team looks close to getting there...

Chiefnj
03-30-2005, 11:36 AM
..and he might retire the year the team looks close to getting there...


Which year is that??

Tuckdaddy
03-30-2005, 11:43 AM
One more year Willie. Give me one more year.

Rausch
03-30-2005, 11:48 AM
Which year is that??

Next year. Don't bother watching this year. You should probably start a garden or something...

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 11:50 AM
LJ proved last year that he can be an effective back in the NFL, and the Chiefs have shored up that position for the future. That being said, I agree that it was a dumb pick and they should've waited for another draft.

Trying to blame Shields, TRich and Gonzo ignores the true reasons why the Chiefs haven't had the success for which we all hope, dream and, in some cases, pray.

MM
~~:)

I didn't have a problem with the LJ pick. We needed the insurance in case Priest wasn't able to come back all the way. Once we had LJ, there was no need (IMO) to give Priest a $10 mil bonus.

I'm not blaming Shields, T-Rich, and Gonzo for making that kind of money. However, once the OG and FB start making that kind of jack, the front office needs to step in and ask them to take a BASE SALARY paycut, maybe offer a signing bonus to partially offset it. If they refused, well, you need to do what's best for the team. I thought letting Tait walk was a smart move, considering the money he was asking for. As long as you have a competent replacement, you should ditch the big contracts whenever you can.

JMO, but I think our offense would suck without Gonzo, so I think he is worth the money. But I don't think we'd suffer with Welbourn at OG instead of Shields, so if Will decides to retire, I'll just shrug it off.

keg in kc
03-30-2005, 11:58 AM
However, once the OG and FB start making that kind of jack, the front office needs to step in and ask them to take a BASE SALARY paycut, maybe offer a signing bonus to partially offset it.I think T-Rich has restructured each of the last several seasons. Shields I'm not sure about, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Rausch
03-30-2005, 12:00 PM
This entire offense begins and ends with the offensive line. Shields' and Watters' ability to ****ing maul their man free's up our other lineman to pull and lead block on a lot of our running plays to the outside. Our offensive line single handedly won the B-More game last year.

Watters and TRich made Ray Lewis, probably the best defensive player in the NFL a non-factor. Our offensive line allows us to play Smashmouth football or Saunders passing game whenever we want. They allow us to become a completely different offense from week to week, depending on our opponent.

They deserve their money. You want to start asking guys to take a pay cut you talk to Woods, Sims, Morton, or Warfield. Those are the guys we aren't getting our money out of...

Mark M
03-30-2005, 12:05 PM
I didn't have a problem with the LJ pick. We needed the insurance in case Priest wasn't able to come back all the way. Once we had LJ, there was no need (IMO) to give Priest a $10 mil bonus.

I'm not blaming Shields, T-Rich, and Gonzo for making that kind of money. However, once the OG and FB start making that kind of jack, the front office needs to step in and ask them to take a BASE SALARY paycut, maybe offer a signing bonus to partially offset it. If they refused, well, you need to do what's best for the team. I thought letting Tait walk was a smart move, considering the money he was asking for. As long as you have a competent replacement, you should ditch the big contracts whenever you can.

JMO, but I think our offense would suck without Gonzo, so I think he is worth the money. But I don't think we'd suffer with Welbourn at OG instead of Shields, so if Will decides to retire, I'll just shrug it off.

IMHO, there would be a pretty huge drop off without Shields and TRich.

I can think of at least a dozen TDs of Priest's where TRich threw the key block. I just can't see Omar Easy or a rookie being nearly as good.

One of the reasons the offense hums is because of the leadership of Shields and his Hall-of-Fame abilities. Remove him and you've got not only a drop off of skills, but also of the intangables he brings to the team.

Also, isn't a HOF guard deserve to be paid in the same range of the best lineman in the league?

MM
~~:hmmm:

htismaqe
03-30-2005, 12:22 PM
This entire offense begins and ends with the offensive line. Shields' and Watters' ability to ****ing maul their man free's up our other lineman to pull and lead block on a lot of our running plays to the outside. Our offensive line single handedly won the B-More game last year.

Watters and TRich made Ray Lewis, probably the best defensive player in the NFL a non-factor. Our offensive line allows us to play Smashmouth football or Saunders passing game whenever we want. They allow us to become a completely different offense from week to week, depending on our opponent.

They deserve their money. You want to start asking guys to take a pay cut you talk to Woods, Sims, Morton, or Warfield. Those are the guys we aren't getting our money out of...

Jordan Black was a big part of that mangling of Ray-Ray.

htismaqe
03-30-2005, 12:23 PM
IMHO, there would be a pretty huge drop off without Shields and TRich.

I can think of at least a dozen TDs of Priest's where TRich threw the key block. I just can't see Omar Easy or a rookie being nearly as good.

One of the reasons the offense hums is because of the leadership of Shields and his Hall-of-Fame abilities. Remove him and you've got not only a drop off of skills, but also of the intangables he brings to the team.

Also, isn't a HOF guard deserve to be paid in the same range of the best lineman in the league?

MM
~~:hmmm:

Omar Easy is done.

Mark M
03-30-2005, 12:29 PM
Omar Easy is done.

That was kinda my point ...

MM
~~:)

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 01:02 PM
Time to make a business decison. Thanks for the memories, Will. Unfortunately, you make too much money in the salary cap world.

ouch... i wouldn't go that far.

i'd do what i said we should do when we first traded for welbourn


put him at guard ... his natural position and then slide Shields out to tackle where his money is a little more appropriate for the position.

shields has great feet and has played the tackle position before.

Welbourn's power will help offset and undersized center

Roaf
Waters
Wiegman
Welbourn
Shields

sampson,bober,black,williams as backups

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 01:03 PM
Also, isn't a HOF guard deserve to be paid in the same range of the best lineman in the league?

MM
~~:hmmm:

only if you draft well enough to afford it, otherwise .... "no, there not"

htismaqe
03-30-2005, 01:09 PM
That was kinda my point ...

MM
~~:)

My point was that he's no longer on the team. I don't believe he was tendered an offer.

htismaqe
03-30-2005, 01:10 PM
ouch... i wouldn't go that far.

i'd do what i said we should do when we first traded for welbourn


put him at guard ... his natural position and then slide Shields out to tackle where his money is a little more appropriate for the position.

shields has great feet and has played the tackle position before.

Welbourn's power will help offset and undersized center

Roaf
Waters
Wiegman
Welbourn
Shields

sampson,bober,black,williams as backups

Exactly what I suggest yesterday... :thumb:

tk13
03-30-2005, 01:17 PM
I do not think there is any logical justification for wanting to pay "big name" free agents like Patrick Surtain $13-15 million in signing bonus and $7 mil per year, while saying that one of the best players to play his position in the entire HISTORY of the NFL is overpaid. I just can't get inside that logic. Will still grades out as the best guard in the league, he doesn't miss games, he's a leader, he may be the perfect offensive lineman. He is literally the last guy on this team I think we should be worrying about... I think we're running out of stuff to talk about or something.

mcan
03-30-2005, 01:19 PM
ouch... i wouldn't go that far.

i'd do what i said we should do when we first traded for welbourn


put him at guard ... his natural position and then slide Shields out to tackle where his money is a little more appropriate for the position.

shields has great feet and has played the tackle position before.

Welbourn's power will help offset and undersized center

Roaf
Waters
Wiegman
Welbourn
Shields

sampson,bober,black,williams as backups

Don't like it... And I'll tell you why.
This offense likes to PULL it's guards and get outside the tackle. It's almost dependent on it's ability to do this effectively, or you will not have the killer running game that we've experienced the last few years. Now, clearly Shields is the best guy to do this job. Yes, he'll be effective at right tackle, but that position isn't as important to us right now.

beer bacon
03-30-2005, 01:33 PM
Wow this thread is getting stupid. Shields is one of the best at his position EVER, Richardson is the best blocking FB in the league, and Tony G is in the top three TEs ever if not the best. Paying them well is not our team's problem. Not being able to draft players that can actually play, especially on defense, is our problem.

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 01:53 PM
IMHO, there would be a pretty huge drop off without Shields and TRich.

I can think of at least a dozen TDs of Priest's where TRich threw the key block. I just can't see Omar Easy or a rookie being nearly as good.


Like I said, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A COMPETENT REPLACEMENT, you should ditch the big salaries whenever possible.

No way you can get rid of T-Rich right now. We drafted George Layne and Omar Easy to eventually replace T-Rich and his unwieldy salary, but of course, our drafting sucks. So we're stuck with a big salary at FB.

Rausch
03-30-2005, 01:56 PM
Like I said, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A COMPETENT REPLACEMENT, you should ditch the big salaries whenever possible.

No way you can get rid of T-Rich right now. We drafted George Layne and Omar Easy to eventually replace T-Rich and his unwieldy salary, but of course, our drafting sucks. So we're stuck with a big salary at FB.

I wonder if we'll still experiment with Wilson at FB/H-back. If he can made the transition he'd be a hell of an athletic FB and another threat out of the backfield.

Mark M
03-30-2005, 01:58 PM
Like I said, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A COMPETENT REPLACEMENT, you should ditch the big salaries whenever possible.

No way you can get rid of T-Rich right now. We drafted George Layne and Omar Easy to eventually replace T-Rich and his unwieldy salary, but of course, our drafting sucks. So we're stuck with a big salary at FB.

I guess I just don't see Welbourn as a "competent replacement."

Quite frankly, I think he's about 60% of what Shields is and, once Shields does retire, we'll all notice a huge difference.

MM
~~:arrow:

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 02:01 PM
I just can't get inside logic
lemme fix your post



next .........

BIG_DADDY
03-30-2005, 02:05 PM
He should be back

Mr. Laz
03-30-2005, 02:06 PM
Don't like it... And I'll tell you why.
This offense likes to PULL it's guards and get outside the tackle. It's almost dependent on it's ability to do this effectively, or you will not have the killer running game that we've experienced the last few years. Now, clearly Shields is the best guy to do this job. Yes, he'll be effective at right tackle, but that position isn't as important to us right now.

this offense pulls at tackle as well ... in fact all the dante hall screens and wide recievers and running back sweeps depend on the ability of the offensive tackles to do pull or reach blocks.

we might lose a little on welbourn pulling but we gain a ton on our ability to get outside because of Shields quick feet.

you follow up great reach blocks by shields with the ramble,rumble power of welbourn once he gets up to speed and i'm not sure the the offensive line might not be even better.

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 02:25 PM
I guess I just don't see Welbourn as a "competent replacement."

Quite frankly, I think he's about 60% of what Shields is and, once Shields does retire, we'll all notice a huge difference.

MM
~~:arrow:

That's possible, but Welbourn was competent enough to start in 3 NFC Championship games at guard. Even though he didn't play well at RT last year, he has proven to be a solid OG in the past. He and Will are just different styles. And when Priest gets hurt again and LJ takes over, we're going to run more of the smashmouth plays anyway.

Wile_E_Coyote
03-30-2005, 02:52 PM
Ray Brown to return to Redskins at 42

http://www.mercurynews.com/images/common/spacer.gif
Associated Press
http://www.mercurynews.com/images/common/spacer.gif
ASHBURN, Va. - Ray Brown, at 42 the oldest offensive lineman in modern NFL history, re-signed with the Washington Redskins on Wednesday and will return for a 20th NFL season.


He underwent knee and ankle surgery after the season and is expected to be a backup at guard and tackle this year.
Brown was a late signing a year ago, joining the team after right tackle Jon Jansen was injured in an exhibition game, and went to play in all 16 regular season games with 14 starts - 13 at right tackle and one at right guard.

Brown is the oldest NFL lineman since World War II, according to the Elias Sports Bureau, and possibly the oldest since the 1920s. Birth dates are not listed in the record books for many players in the first half of the 20th century.

Brown has started at least 14 games each year since the 1993 season.

He has 203 career starts in 246 games for the St. Louis and Phoenix Cardinals (1986-88), Redskins (1989-95, 2004), San Francisco 49ers (1996-01) and Detroit Lions (2002-03). He made his only Pro Bowl appearance with the 49ers in 2001.

Brown was an eighth-round draft pick by the Cardinals out of Arkansas State in 1986.

shaneo69
03-30-2005, 02:57 PM
Ray Brown to return to Redskins at 42


And Ray continues to keep the legacy of the old St. Louis football Cardinals alive.

Good for you, Ray!! :thumb:

htismaqe
03-30-2005, 03:02 PM
this offense pulls at tackle as well ... in fact all the dante hall screens and wide recievers and running back sweeps depend on the ability of the offensive tackles to do pull or reach blocks.

we might lose a little on welbourn pulling but we gain a ton on our ability to get outside because of Shields quick feet.

you follow up great reach blocks by shields with the ramble,rumble power of welbourn once he gets up to speed and i'm not sure the the offensive line might not be even better.

I'm convinced it would be better.

stevieray
03-30-2005, 03:05 PM
I have much respect for Will, but let's not pretend he didn't whiff on blocks last year.

Brock
03-30-2005, 03:08 PM
I have much respect for Will, but let's not pretend he didn't whiff on blocks last year.

What do you mean by "whiff"?

TRR
03-30-2005, 04:14 PM
If Shields doesn't want to play anymore, than by all means, he should hang em' up. I thought Priest Holmes really hurt the team last season by saying he contemplated retirement. He missed all of the first workouts and nobody knew if he was pgoing to play or not.

Thanks for the years Will Shields. We'll take the cap room and move Welbourn in if you want to hang em up. No sleep lost.

milkman
03-30-2005, 05:19 PM
Ray Brown to return to Redskins at 42

http://www.mercurynews.com/images/common/spacer.gif
Associated Press
http://www.mercurynews.com/images/common/spacer.gif
ASHBURN, Va. - Ray Brown, at 42 the oldest offensive lineman in modern NFL history, re-signed with the Washington Redskins on Wednesday and will return for a 20th NFL season.


He underwent knee and ankle surgery after the season and is expected to be a backup at guard and tackle this year.
Brown was a late signing a year ago, joining the team after right tackle Jon Jansen was injured in an exhibition game, and went to play in all 16 regular season games with 14 starts - 13 at right tackle and one at right guard.

Brown is the oldest NFL lineman since World War II, according to the Elias Sports Bureau, and possibly the oldest since the 1920s. Birth dates are not listed in the record books for many players in the first half of the 20th century.

Brown has started at least 14 games each year since the 1993 season.

He has 203 career starts in 246 games for the St. Louis and Phoenix Cardinals (1986-88), Redskins (1989-95, 2004), San Francisco 49ers (1996-01) and Detroit Lions (2002-03). He made his only Pro Bowl appearance with the 49ers in 2001.

Brown was an eighth-round draft pick by the Cardinals out of Arkansas State in 1986.

That's cool, but what exactly is the point?

The strength of this offense, and really the only reason that the Chiefs score as much as they do, is the O-Line, and T-Rich.

Priest puts up all those scores because of the O-Line and T-Rich.

Trent Green is able to stand in the pocket and wait for our scap heap WRs to come open, because the O-Line provides him the protection, and time he needs for those srap heapers.

4.3 mil is a lot jack for a guard, but I have no problem with it.
Rather be spending it him than Kennison or Morton.

philfree
03-30-2005, 05:43 PM
I'm convinced it would be better.


That's kind of the same thing alot of folks said last year when Welbourn was brought in to replace Tait. I don't want to Shields but it won't be the end of our offensive success. There's two other pro bowlers on that line and Weigman plays at a prowl bowl level in our offense. He's a perfect fit for what we do. I think we can survive the loss of one of our 4 kick butt O linemen and actually it might work out better in one way. I'd rather have to replace Shields or Roaf one year and the other the next. It would be easier to replace them one at a time but if we gotta replace both Roaf and Shields in the same year that will be extremely difficult. None the less I pray we have both Shields and Roaf healthy and on the field for one more year. As MilkWinder said this O depends on the O line to make it go. The trend these days in the NFL seems to be not to perfect the O but find a dominating player like Owens or Moss and just play jump ball. I like our style of O better. We can cut you to pieces with Johnny Fuggin Johnson and Eddie Kennison for christ sakes ROFL To me that is priceless.

PhilFree :arrow: