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beer bacon
04-01-2005, 12:32 AM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-dolphin01apr01,0,5199247.story?coll=sfla-sports-front

Surtain, K.C. agree, but Dolphins coach balks

By Alex Marvez and Ethan Skolnick
Staff Writers
Posted April 1 2005

DAVIE -- Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain and the Kansas City Chiefs have agreed in principle to a multiyear contract extension that includes an eight-digit signing bonus provided a trade between the teams can be worked out, sources said.

The Chiefs reportedly are offering a fourth-round draft choice while the Dolphins are believed to be insistent upon a selection in the first three rounds.











Kansas City has its own first- and second-round picks as well as a third-round compensational pick awarded by the NFL that cannot be traded. The Chiefs traded their 2005 third-round pick last season to Philadelphia as part of a package to acquire guard John Welbourn.

"If someone else wants to work a business deal for [Surtain] to be on their team, fine," Dolphins coach Nick Saban said Thursday. "But we will not compromise on our price. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but it's not to be compromised."

Saban gave Surtain permission to shop his services in February after it appeared the three-time Pro Bowl selection would be unable to land the kind of lucrative contract he was seeking from the Dolphins. Surtain is scheduled to earn $5.85 million in 2005, the final season in a four-year contract extension he signed in 2001.

"I like Patrick and want him to be on our team," Saban said. "If he's not, it's going to be because it can't work out business-wise. It's as simple as that."

Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil said last week that his team had interest in Surtain and free-agent cornerback Ty Law. Vermeil hopes to acquire a veteran cornerback before the April 23 draft to help improve the NFL's lowest-ranked secondary in 2004.

Surtain had drawn interest from other teams, with Minnesota, Oakland and Seattle among the leading suitors. But no trade was close to happening because of the Dolphins' compensation demands and the fact a contract extension would need to be reached with Surtain, who could become an unrestricted free agent in 2006. The Vikings and Seahawks addressed the need for cornerbacks by signing free agents Fred Smoot and Kelly Herndon, respectively.

Surtain carries an $8.4 million salary cap number, which is almost 10 percent of the Dolphins' $85.5 million cap allowance. But Saban said the Dolphins can handle that number and said the franchise tag could be used to retain Surtain's rights for future seasons, although that would place a greater strain on the team's cap. The one-year guaranteed salary for a franchise cornerback in 2005 is $8.8 million and is expected to increase in 2006.

"I don't know that we can sign him long-term," Saban said. "It depends on what happens in the future. We can't make it work right now relative to what they want and where we are."

Surtain, 28, has been a Dolphins starter since 1999. Reggie Howard and Will Poole are the leading contenders to replace Surtain in the starting lineup if a trade is completed.

Alex Marvez can be reached at amarvez@sun-sentinel.com. Ethan J. Skolnick can be reached at eskolnick@sun-sentinel.com.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-01-2005, 12:38 AM
so what does this mean?

Michael Michigan
04-01-2005, 12:38 AM
Trade the #2.

SNR
04-01-2005, 12:38 AM
Well, that's phase one.

All we have to do now is play the waiting game with the Dolphins

el borracho
04-01-2005, 12:41 AM
How can all of the following be true at the same time:
*the Chiefs (notoriously cheap) can reach a contract extension agreement with Surtain
*The Dolphins are not able to reach a contract extension agreement with Surtain
*The Dolphins could tag Surtain paying him an average of the top CB salaries if no deal can be reached

Seriously, if the Dolphins are willing and able to pay Surtain top dollar, why can they not reach a contract extension agreement?

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 12:42 AM
so what does this mean?

It means if we agree to terms with the Dolphins that he is ours. We either need to trade the #2 or go with the more risky approach of trading down on draft day and trading the extra pick.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 12:43 AM
How can all of the following be true at the same time:
*the Chiefs (notoriously cheap) can reach a contract extension agreement with Surtain
*The Dolphins are not able to reach a contract extension agreement with Surtain
*The Dolphins could tag Surtain paying him an average of the top CB salaries if no deal can be reached

Seriously, if the Dolphins are willing and able to pay Surtain top dollar, why can they not reach a contract extension agreement?

Saban is just building upon Miami's fine tradition of crazy idiot headcoaches?

Also, the whole franchise warning could just be a bluff to give us more incentive to give up our #2.

Stinger
04-01-2005, 12:45 AM
How can all of the following be true at the same time:
*the Chiefs (notoriously cheap) can reach a contract extension agreement with Surtain
*The Dolphins are not able to reach a contract extension agreement with Surtain
*The Dolphins could tag Surtain paying him an average of the top CB salaries if no deal can be reached

Seriously, if the Dolphins are willing and able to pay Surtain top dollar, why can they not reach a contract extension agreement?

I believe that if all reports are true that if they keep Surtain they will be cap strapped and have no money for their draft pick. Thought I saw somewhere that they would save 5.4 million or around that if they get ride of him. I believe they are around 1.5 million under the cap. Don't quote me on that though.

philfree
04-01-2005, 12:48 AM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-dolphin01apr01,0,5199247.story?coll=sfla-sports-front

Surtain, K.C. agree, but Dolphins coach balks

By Alex Marvez and Ethan Skolnick
Staff Writers
Posted April 1 2005

DAVIE -- Dolphins cornerback Patrick Surtain and the Kansas City Chiefs have agreed in principle to a multiyear contract extension that includes an eight-digit signing bonus provided a trade between the teams can be worked out, sources said.

The Chiefs reportedly are offering a fourth-round draft choice while the Dolphins are believed to be insistent upon a selection in the first three rounds.

Kansas City has its own first- and second-round picks as well as a third-round compensational pick awarded by the NFL that cannot be traded. The Chiefs traded their 2005 third-round pick last season to Philadelphia as part of a package to acquire guard John Welbourn.

"If someone else wants to work a business deal for [Surtain] to be on their team, fine," Dolphins coach Nick Saban said Thursday. "But we will not compromise on our price. I'm not going to tell you what that is, but it's not to be compromised."

Saban gave Surtain permission to shop his services in February after it appeared the three-time Pro Bowl selection would be unable to land the kind of lucrative contract he was seeking from the Dolphins. Surtain is scheduled to earn $5.85 million in 2005, the final season in a four-year contract extension he signed in 2001.

"I like Patrick and want him to be on our team," Saban said. "If he's not, it's going to be because it can't work out business-wise. It's as simple as that."

Chiefs coach Dick Vermeil said last week that his team had interest in Surtain and free-agent cornerback Ty Law. Vermeil hopes to acquire a veteran cornerback before the April 23 draft to help improve the NFL's lowest-ranked secondary in 2004.

Surtain had drawn interest from other teams, with Minnesota, Oakland and Seattle among the leading suitors. But no trade was close to happening because of the Dolphins' compensation demands and the fact a contract extension would need to be reached with Surtain, who could become an unrestricted free agent in 2006. The Vikings and Seahawks addressed the need for cornerbacks by signing free agents Fred Smoot and Kelly Herndon, respectively.

Surtain carries an $8.4 million salary cap number, which is almost 10 percent of the Dolphins' $85.5 million cap allowance. But Saban said the Dolphins can handle that number and said the franchise tag could be used to retain Surtain's rights for future seasons, although that would place a greater strain on the team's cap. The one-year guaranteed salary for a franchise cornerback in 2005 is $8.8 million and is expected to increase in 2006.

"I don't know that we can sign him long-term," Saban said. "It depends on what happens in the future. We can't make it work right now relative to what they want and where we are."

Surtain, 28, has been a Dolphins starter since 1999. Reggie Howard and Will Poole are the leading contenders to replace Surtain in the starting lineup if a trade is completed.

Alex Marvez can be reached at amarvez@sun-sentinel.com. Ethan J. Skolnick can be reached at eskolnick@sun-sentinel.com.

No other teams have offered shit so IMO we need to sit tight. They won't carry him at his cap hit or he would of never been allowed to seek a trade. If the facts are represented in this article as much as it pains me we gotta play this right up till the 2nd round of the draft.

PhilFree :arrow:

Logical
04-01-2005, 12:50 AM
Trade the #2.



Absof*ckinglutely

Chiefs Pantalones
04-01-2005, 12:50 AM
With our luck, he will re-sign back with the Dolphins.

beavis
04-01-2005, 12:55 AM
Good God, give them a #2 and be done with it already.

Nightfyre
04-01-2005, 12:55 AM
8 digits makes me uncomfortable.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-01-2005, 12:57 AM
8 digits makes me uncomfortable.

Why? Dude is a pro bowl CB. Do we have pro bowl anything on this defense? If anyone deserves an 8 digit signing bonus, Surtain does.

Nightfyre
04-01-2005, 12:58 AM
Why? Dude is a pro bowl CB. Do we have pro bowl anything on this defense? If anyone deserves an 8 digit signing bonus, Surtain does.
Its that whole degenerative knee deal.... worries me.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 12:59 AM
Its that whole degenerative knee deal.... worries me.

Why did we ever sign Trent Green or Roaf :mad:

Chiefs Pantalones
04-01-2005, 01:00 AM
Its that whole degenerative knee deal.... worries me.

you're kidding, right?

Nightfyre
04-01-2005, 01:02 AM
you're kidding, right?
That and I think CBs are too handcuffed to be worth paying that much. :shrug:

philfree
04-01-2005, 01:05 AM
I'd trade the "two" but unless another bidder enters the market I wouldn't do it till the last possible moment. ( moment?) that can't be the right spelling.......It don't like right to me.......of course "I've drank enough whiskey to float a battle ship around." Bowling night..... guys night out......Gimmie back my bulletts.......


PhilFree :arrow:

Chiefs Pantalones
04-01-2005, 01:06 AM
That and I think CBs are too handcuffed to be worth paying that much. :shrug:

ROFL Ok Gaz.

HolmeZz
04-01-2005, 01:09 AM
Yeah, I'm getting sick of this crap already. Fork over the #2 and we get a Pro Bowl cornerback. No one we draft there will be half the player Surtain is.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-01-2005, 01:10 AM
For f*cks sake get this goddamned deal done and give this Chiefs fan some hope for the upcoming season. 2nd round pick? Who cares? What are gonna draft another Kawika Mitchell? Pull the trigger, you've already chanced Bell. You've signed Knight. This is the final piece of the puzzle. Trade up in the 1st round try and sign the next big Derrick in this league. GET IT DONE NOW!!!!!

SBK
04-01-2005, 01:12 AM
Im no GM, but we offer a 4, they balk, how bout our 2 for their 3 and Surtain. Yeah right. Just do the deal already, I am 99.9% sure our 2nd rounder won't be a pro bowler next year, and there's a decent shot Surtain could be.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-01-2005, 01:13 AM
I know most that oppose will give this example... but the problem with the Broncos this year wasn't Champ Bailey. I think he did quite well. The defense was ranked in the top 10, good secondary, good LB core, the problem was the Dline not getting enough pressure on the QB. Bailey was still dang good, sure he got beat sometimes, but you do at CB once in awhile. He's still a top CB that improved their D all he could.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-01-2005, 01:15 AM
I agree with the previous posts...trade the freakin' 2nd rounder. It's a bargain, even with the new contract we agreed with him to, for a pro bowl CB. We are getting the better end of the deal. We get top CB, they get an unknown guy with our 2nd rounder.

tk13
04-01-2005, 01:32 AM
I know most that oppose will give this example... but the problem with the Broncos this year wasn't Champ Bailey. I think he did quite well. The defense was ranked in the top 10, good secondary, good LB core, the problem was the Dline not getting enough pressure on the QB. Bailey was still dang good, sure he got beat sometimes, but you do at CB once in awhile. He's still a top CB that improved their D all he could.
I don't disagree with that. Some people would probably sit here and still say we should've addressed the defense by spending the big money in the front seven and just adding a more middle-of-the-road CB that doesn't have to be Champ Bailey but can hold their own, like a Herndon. I personally am not sure the market lended itself to that this season, but I think financially speaking you probably could make a great case that it's the best way to do things. If the front four can get pressure you don't need to be spewing out the big money on corners. Because really if you think about it, big-time corners aren't worth anything if the QB has all day to throw, but big time pass rushers are going to get to the QB regardless as long as you have anything above William Bartee starting for you...

chappy
04-01-2005, 01:32 AM
i actually think we're in a better position then they are. as long as no one else sneaks in to try to get him they will have to settle or be ****ed for years to come with the cap. we need to work those sun soaked idiots in their FO. damn they are minor league all new to the game we got them right where we want them as long as we play this right.
even though he pisses me off alot Carl does know how to Fist PHuck other FO's alot of the time.

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:45 AM
For f*cks sake get this goddamned deal done and give this Chiefs fan some hope for the upcoming season. 2nd round pick? Who cares? What are gonna draft another Kawika Mitchell? Pull the trigger, you've already chanced Bell. You've signed Knight. This is the final piece of the puzzle. Trade up in the 1st round try and sign the next big Derrick in this league. GET IT DONE NOW!!!!!

you're ****ing retarded man...we could get surtain for a fourth round, dont you get it

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 01:45 AM
The 2nd should be traded immediately.

And for the record, this degenerative knee condition is a MYTH created here. I haven't seen it ONE other place.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 01:46 AM
you're ****ing retarded man...we could get surtain for a fourth round, dont you get it

Please refrain from posting in my threads. I thought you said in your other thread that you were leaving? Taco Jr. I see.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 01:47 AM
you're ****ing retarded man...we could get surtain for a fourth round, dont you get it

There is zero chance the Chiefs will get Surtain for a 4th rounder. If the 4th rounder is the compensation, teams are going to line up around the block to get this guy.

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:47 AM
be quiet old man

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 01:48 AM
be quiet old man

Also, I would like to at least applaud you for using the correct form of you're in your previous post. You don't see that kind of correct grammar in many internet tough guys now and days.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 01:49 AM
be quiet old man

I'm not old you douchebag.

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:49 AM
if I'm at the game and one of you dumbass's says anything as dumb as this shit i'll ****ing break you neck

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:50 AM
kc cant draft...kc cant draft...kc cant draft...bla bla bla bla bla

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:51 AM
prove it

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 01:51 AM
if I'm at the game and one of you dumbass's says anything as dumb as this shit i'll ****ing break you neck

Needs more :cuss:

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 01:51 AM
if I'm at the game and one of you dumbass's says anything as dumb as this shit i'll ****ing break you neck

Sure you will, toughguy.

I bet you sleep with a night-light.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-01-2005, 01:51 AM
you're ****ing retarded man...we could get surtain for a fourth round, dont you get it


Didn't you call us all f@gs and leave? Why would anyone trade him for a 4th round pick? It would be more worth it just to keep him for the year and let him go next year for nothing. He still puts asses in seats. Don't you get it? Think about it, it's not difficult.

Fruit Ninja
04-01-2005, 01:53 AM
Its that whole degenerative knee deal.... worries me.
Defense without a corner worries me more.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 01:54 AM
kc cant draft...kc cant draft...kc cant draft...bla bla bla bla bla

Reggie Tongue and Tim Grunhard are the ONLY 2 decent 2nd round picks Carl Peterson has made in his tenure here. That's less than a 15% chance that the pick will be a good one based on prior drafts.

We have the chance to get a THREE TIME PRO BOWL CORNER.

Maybe if you put down your Hulk Hogan weight set, you would do your homework.

Now go get in your bed before the monsters under your bed get you.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-01-2005, 01:54 AM
if I'm at the game and one of you dumbass's says anything as dumb as this shit i'll ****ing break you neck


you sound like a f*ckin raiders fan. Just another pole smokin, sh*t talker that probably gets his ass whooped in high school everyday. Beat it polesmacker, you bring nothing productive to this board. Just look at your pitiful f*ckin grammer. Break you neck? For f*cks sake take the toilet paper out of your pants and be a man. Pussy

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:55 AM
noway dolphins keep him...even if the have to take a fourth round for him

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:55 AM
Reggie Tongue and Tim Grunhard are the ONLY 2 decent 2nd round picks Carl Peterson has made in his tenure here. That's less than a 15% chance that the pick will be a good one based on prior drafts.

We have the chance to get a THREE TIME PRO BOWL CORNER.

Maybe if you put down your Hulk Hogan weight set, you would do your homework.

Now go get in your bed before the monsters under your bed get you.

what bout third round,fourth,fith...

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:57 AM
will shields..third round

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:57 AM
dante hall...fith round

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:58 AM
christian okoye...third round

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:58 AM
jared allen...fith round

philfree
04-01-2005, 01:58 AM
There is zero chance the Chiefs will get Surtain for a 4th rounder. If the 4th rounder is the compensation, teams are going to line up around the block to get this guy.

I don't think we'll get Surtain for a 4th alone but there ain't no line formed as of now so I'm not sure your logic is accurate. (With all due respect of course.) I say deal'em and let's play poker...........And if you gotta wear reptile like glasses to have a poker face please take your labia and go home.

PhilFree :arrow:

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 01:58 AM
eric warfield...7th round

Mr. Flopnuts
04-01-2005, 01:59 AM
Then it would appear we should just trade the 2nd and keep the fourth since according to you we're so much more productive then anyway. Trade the f*ckin pick, bring in the proven stud. It's not rocket science genius.

chappy
04-01-2005, 02:00 AM
the fins can't keep him and sign thier billions of draft picks. saban himself said he wanted to trade down to stock up on draft picks. they can't afford him and we will have him if we don't then we'll have the Law

tk13
04-01-2005, 02:01 AM
Honestly, before just giving up and giving the 2nd, push hard to throw in some other picks, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder next year thrown in, something. I wouldn't just make the jump from 4th to 2nd this year. But I'm thinking of this from a "load up now with all we can" attitude rather than a "worry about the future" attitude, so yeah.. :)

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 02:01 AM
na man...im sayin just because we havent had alot of useful second rounders doenst mean shit...post hoc ergo propter hoc

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 02:08 AM
na man...im sayin just because we havent had alot of useful second rounders doenst mean shit...post hoc ergo propter hoc

Why doesn't it mean shit? When you only draft 2 decent players in 16 years in round 2 that is a trend.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 02:09 AM
eric warfield...7th round

I'm not talking about the 7th round, I'm talking about the 2nd.

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 02:09 AM
because the draft good in later rounds...where theoretically theres less talent

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 02:10 AM
are you saying they are cursed in the second round?

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 02:12 AM
christian okoye...third round

Peterson didn't draft Okoye smartguy.

Rashaan Shehee, Matt Blundin, William Bartee, Mike Cloud, Eddie Freeman, Kevin Lockett, Donnell Bennett, Mike Elkins.

All 2nd round Carl Peterson picks.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 02:12 AM
are you saying they are cursed in the second round?

Cursed by our inability to draft good players in the 2nd round.

HolmeZz
04-01-2005, 02:13 AM
When it comes to our early round picks, we are pretty much cursed. We definitely draft better in the later rounds.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 02:13 AM
because the draft good in later rounds...where theoretically theres less talent

If you really feel that Carl Peterson drafts well then there's no point in carrying this conversation on with you.

Gravedigger
04-01-2005, 02:13 AM
Saban seems pretty stubborn by saying that the dolphins wont budge on their side so I hope he breaks by the time draft rolls around.

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 02:13 AM
look i want surtain as much as everyone here does...but it would be great to get him and keep our top 3 picks...and right now its possible

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 02:14 AM
if they have too...then hell yea give up that 2nd rounder, you know

Mr. Flopnuts
04-01-2005, 02:15 AM
Trade our 2nd rounder for Surtain, and try to get a token 3rd or 4th round pick also. They pick in the beginning of the rounds, just get Surtain and do it before we get "Rolled".

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 02:16 AM
look i want surtain as much as everyone here does...but it would be great to get him and keep our top 3 picks...and right now its possible

If you would stop insulting people constantly people would be more friendly towards you. This post of yours I am quoting is a good example of posts that will not garner hostility towards you.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 02:17 AM
look i want surtain as much as everyone here does...but it would be great to get him and keep our top 3 picks...and right now its possible

Possible according to who?

It's a fantasy. The Dolphins can get a far better 4th round pick than KC's middle in the 4th if they are willing to accept that.

The Chiefs can't afford to play chicken with the Dolphins. The Chiefs obvioulsy want Surtain, which is evident by paying him so much, the Dolphins know we are an awful defensive team, and the only other option is a hobbled Ty Law.

We aren't dealing from a position of strength. Teams just don't want to give away Pro Bowl corners.

SBK
04-01-2005, 02:22 AM
Peterson didn't draft Okoye smartguy.

Rashaan Shehee, Matt Blundin, William Bartee, Mike Cloud, Eddie Freeman, Kevin Lockett, Donnell Bennett, Mike Elkins.

All 2nd round Carl Peterson picks.

That list reads like a whos who of NFL superstars! WOW!

chappy
04-01-2005, 02:32 AM
i back chiefsfolife you guys are acting like women. we have the upper hand in this trade. we will have surtain for our 4th or maybe a draft pick next year.
even if we don't i don't care i think law will be ok maybe not as effective as surtain but i know one of them will be playing at arrowhead on sundays.

chappy
04-01-2005, 02:34 AM
they both fit the profile

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 02:47 AM
Heya Folks.

If anyone thinks they are getting Surtain for a 4th they are dreaming.

Saban has gone on and on and on and on since he took the job that he absolutely regrets not having a pick in the 2nd round.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11282332.htm

The Dolphins have asked for a second-round pick and an additional middle-round pick, according to three NFL sources.

If the Chiefs don't end up meeting the phins price of a 2nd rounder you can sure bet other teams will jump into the fray in the coming weeks now that K.C. has done the dirty work for everyone and worked out the contract terms.

In the end Peterson should just do the 2nd. It makes total sense for both teams. By delaying all he's doing is letting teams have a chance to get back into this thing. I could easily see the Chargers jumping in at some point.

Mike McKenzie was also traded for a 2nd rounder and he's nowhere in the same league as Surtain.

Spicy McHaggis
04-01-2005, 02:53 AM
If the Chiefs don't end up meeting the phins price of a 2nd rounder you can sure bet other teams will jump into the fray in the coming weeks now that K.C. has done the dirty work for everyone and worked out the contract terms.

In the end Peterson should just do the 2nd. It makes total sense for both teams. By delaying all he's doing is letting teams have a chance to get back into this thing. I could easily see the Chargers jumping in at some point.

Welcome to the board, don't be a stranger. All I know is that if I'm Saban I'd tell Peterson to stick it where the sun don't shine if all he's willing to give up is a fourth. Just a side note, any hope that Feeley lives up to the second you traded for him? Not trying to be an ass, I just remember him struggling last year and was wondering what the general sentiment of the Phins fans was.

BigMeatballDave
04-01-2005, 02:58 AM
This better not be a ****ing April fools joke...

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 02:59 AM
Welcome to the board, don't be a stranger. All I know is that if I'm Saban I'd tell Peterson to stick it where the sun don't shine if all he's willing to give up is a fourth. Just a side note, any hope that Feeley lives up to the second you traded for him? Not trying to be an ass, I just remember him struggling last year and was wondering what the general sentiment of the Phins fans was.

I know. A 4th was pretty much an insult. As for the 2nd for Feeley the Jets tried trading a 3rd rounder for him the year before and Philly turned them down. He's showed 'some' promise but it's really hard to tell as I am one of the ones who thought Wanny shoulda been fired 2 years ago. The offensive coaching staff was a mess with Turner leaving and our replacement stepping down and internal squabbles between all the offensive coaches who were in a power struggle, our RB retires on the eve of training camp right after our GM overhauls the entire offensive line (which was a huge risk then and proved to be a downfall) under a scheme that quite frankly was too much for a non gelled offensive line (man blocking). Then even what we had left at RB all 3 were consistently injured for most of the season and our #2 WR arrived near the end of camp. Not to mention the fake QB competition Wanny did when Feeley should have been taking most of the snaps from the first day of camp and everyone knew Wanny was miffed about the comments Feeley made about the practices run.

It was a total mess. However the phins hired OC Linehan away from Minnesota and I believe the best hiring was Offensive Line coach Houck outta San Diego who has a history of turning bums into studs and producing 1000 yard backs.

We will see how it goes.

Spicy McHaggis
04-01-2005, 03:04 AM
I am one of the ones who thought Wanny shoulda been fired 2 years ago.

No argument here. I'm trying not to hijack the thread but I got another quick one. Is JT going be playing standing up a lot in the 3-4? And just a little advice about Holliday, if he gets four sacks in your first game don't think it will be any sort of a regular thing.

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 03:07 AM
No argument here. I'm trying not to hijack the thread but I got another quick one. Is JT going be playing standing up a lot in the 3-4? And just a little advice about Holliday, if he gets four sacks in your first game don't think it will be any sort of a regular thing.

Yah they are expecting J.T. to be standing up in the 3-4 about 15-20% of the time. J.T's balked at it some but it would extend his career for a while not to mention it's about dang time J.T. got moved around. On occassion he'd be moved to match up against a weak RT to exploit the situation but rarely was he ever moved and the 3 or 4 times he was lined up at MLB as an experiment he managed to pick up a sack and a couple pressures. J.T. is the man.

As far as Holliday goes he's purely here as a run stuffer. He'll play 'some' DT and DE in the 3-4 but I don't expect him to get more then 20% of the snaps not with Kevin Carter, Jason Taylor, Tim Bowens, Larry Chester, Dario Romero and David Bowens.

As to the Surtain situation I to believe Saban's pretty much bluffing with keeping him. We have a young CB who I think will be a good starter in a couple years by the name of Will Poole. Not to mention they gave a $4 million signing bonus to Howard last year. Granted that was to replace Madison because they didn't think he'd take a paycut but he did and played lights out last season (helped keep Torry Holt to 2 catches for 8 yards) even if he didn't get the INT's he played within the system and didn't give up the long play like he had been the prior 2-3 years.

chappy
04-01-2005, 03:10 AM
fins can't afford surtain no one else is interested saban and the fins fo need to get a clue its a fourth this year or nothing next year and a huge chunk of thier cap. 10% damn i hope they do keep him it will keep them down where they were last year for even longer.

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 03:14 AM
fins can't afford surtain no one else is interested saban and the fins fo need to get a clue its a fourth this year of nothing next year and a huge chunk of thier cap. 10% damn i hope they do keep him it will keep them down where they were last year for even longer.

Then you get nothing. No team in the league would give you Surtain for a 4th. McKenzie who is half the CB Surtain is got traded for a 2nd and they are nearly the same age. K.C. has no leverage in this one. You've agreed to contract terms, Saban isn't budging and Law is an empty threat as are most NE players when they move on to new teams (Jones, Bledsoe, Woody).

If they do decide to keep Surtain cap room can be made. Heck cap room can always be made for this season.

dbergan
04-01-2005, 03:16 AM
Greetings Chief fans,

I am one finfan who is hoping and praying that this deal does NOT happen. Sutain is the real deal and a critical part of our team. Even w/ the new rules he is as close to a shut down corner as you can get and he is proven. W/ a second the best we could hope for would be to match what Surtain already brings to the game. Might save us some money but I am certain we will lose some games without him. Forget the 4th offered by KC...I don't even want to lose this guy for a second.

If you get him, you will know exactly why I am saying this. He can shut down one side of the field.

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 03:22 AM
Greetings Chief fans,
Even w/ the new rules he is as close to a shut down corner as you can get and he is proven.

Yup great thing about Surtain and Madison was that they always did the press and bumping within the 5 yards as it was so the new rules didn't affect them much at all and were rarely called for it. That new rule nailed a lot of the poseur corners.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-01-2005, 03:23 AM
Greetings Chief fans,

I am one finfan who is hoping and praying that this deal does NOT happen. Sutain is the real deal and a critical part of our team. Even w/ the new rules he is as close to a shut down corner as you can get and he is proven. W/ a second the best we could hope for would be to match what Surtain already brings to the game. Might save us some money but I am certain we will lose some games without him. Forget the 4th offered by KC...I don't even want to lose this guy for a second.

If you get him, you will know exactly why I am saying this. He can shut down one side of the field.


I agree wholeheartedly, let's get this deal done and fit that man in a red and gold uniform. GET IT DONE NOW CARL. Why would they budge? They won't. Please God don't let us get "Rolled" again

Wallcrawler
04-01-2005, 03:28 AM
Heh.

This makes me laugh, really. The fact that there are actually people in this world who really think that trading the 4th is actually something that would acquire Surtain to the team this side of hell freezing over.


SURTAIN is the guy wanting to leave the dolphins. The dolphins would like to keep him. There is no way that they trade Surtain, a pro bowl cornerback, for 4th round rookie talent.

No way in hell.


You people living in this dream world where the Dolphins just crack and say "All right, All right, just give us the 4th and take him!!" need to wake the F up. Seriously now.

The Chiefs need to stop dicking around, and just pay what it takes to get pro bowl talent. Trade the 2nd rounder, Carl and Dick can cry on each other's shoulder, and move on. This defense would have half of one of the best secondaries in the league the past few years in Knight and Surtain.

If the Chiefs screw this one up, there is officially no hope for the front office to ever remove their heads from their asses. They have a shot to bring in pro bowl talent. Its right there. All they have to do is trade the 2.

Cheapass Carl is going to F around and then one of these other teams will crack, and give up the 2 and the Chiefs will lose him. Knowing the Chiefs' luck it will be someone in the division, like the Chargers, who definately have the picks to work with to acquire a guy like that.


This should require 0 thought. Surtain has agreed to sign, Miami wants a 2. Do the deal.

Pants
04-01-2005, 03:30 AM
Wow, atcully knowing that the contract has been worked out, I tend to be of the opinion that we should sign him TODAY. F*ck, give 'em the first I don't care, just bring PS in!!!

chappy
04-01-2005, 03:40 AM
if they would trade a 2nd for aj feely why not take a 4th for surtain face it the fins FO is crazy.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 03:41 AM
if they would trade a 2nd for aj feely why not take a 4th for surtain face it the fins FO is crazy.

They have a new coach who seems to have some influence.

recycle
04-01-2005, 03:44 AM
Lies!

http://poetry.rotten.com/all-kings-horses/0003/kh3.jpg

chappy
04-01-2005, 03:44 AM
damn i just noticed we have some fish in our thread greetings fins fans. what forum you guys from and what are the fans saying besides that our FO are as crazy as yours.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 03:45 AM
****ing shit. Edit out that pic.

chappy
04-01-2005, 03:46 AM
i think a heathly Ty Law is a Shite Ton better then Surtain my self. if Law was healthy this would be easier.

Spicy McHaggis
04-01-2005, 03:50 AM
****ing shit. Edit out that pic.

Yeah I'd take it down quick man before a mod sees it.

Pants
04-01-2005, 03:52 AM
WTF is your malfunction, recycle? First landwhales and now this...

EDIT: After seeing all the other pics, it was fun having you around recycle, see ya!

recycle
04-01-2005, 03:55 AM
They tried to ban me. They will pay.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 03:57 AM
They tried to ban me. They will pay.



The ultimate revenge: LATE NIGHT ROTTEN.COM IMAGE SPAMMING!

They will rue the day they messed with Recycle and his [img] posting abilities.

chappy
04-01-2005, 04:04 AM
^^^:LOL: :LOL: ROFL ROFL ROFL ^^^

Spicy McHaggis
04-01-2005, 04:07 AM
The ultimate revenge: LATE NIGHT ROTTEN.COM IMAGE SPAMMING!

They will rue the day they messed with Recycle and his [img] posting abilities.

FOOL! HE WILL RULE YOU!

chappy
04-01-2005, 04:10 AM
Recycle heres one for ya:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/buttpoemsdotcom/gaytrying.jpg

the Talking Can
04-01-2005, 07:09 AM
Im no GM, but we offer a 4, they balk, how bout our 2 for their 3 and Surtain. Yeah right.

I'm down with that, I'd even throw in a 4th or 5th rounder just to mkae it happen.

tomahawk kid
04-01-2005, 07:18 AM
No other teams have offered shit so IMO we need to sit tight. They won't carry him at his cap hit or he would of never been allowed to seek a trade. If the facts are represented in this article as much as it pains me we gotta play this right up till the 2nd round of the draft.

PhilFree :arrow:

Yep. Carl's got these MoFo's right where he wants them.

If we've already got something worked out for Surtain, then he's going to add pressure on Miami to take the forth.

Just my opinion. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if this drags out til draft day and Carl ends up giving Miami the second anyway.

Looks like a big game of chicken to me, with Ty Law and his health being the (leverage) / wild card.

KCFalcon59
04-01-2005, 07:21 AM
If they want extra picks why not swap first rd picks, give them our second, a fifth a sixth and a seventh. Hell any combination maybe even throw in a mid round from next years also.

I know it probably isn't feasible, but I like it.

C-Mac
04-01-2005, 07:38 AM
Honestly, before just giving up and giving the 2nd, push hard to throw in some other picks, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder next year thrown in, something. I wouldn't just make the jump from 4th to 2nd this year. But I'm thinking of this from a "load up now with all we can" attitude rather than a "worry about the future" attitude, so yeah.. :)

That the thoughts I have and if the Phins want a this years pick trade the next years off. Bet this is similar to how it eventually will go down.
:thumb:

Gaz
04-01-2005, 07:46 AM
Welcome aboard, Mr. Surtain.

xoxo~
Gaz
Being a good sport.

the Talking Can
04-01-2005, 07:53 AM
Welcome aboard, Mr. Surtain.

xoxo~
Gaz
Being a good sport.


you could pretend his name is McDyson if it helps ease the pain of acquiring a probowl CB....besides, you're not the one who has to endure monkeys flying out of his ass if CP actuallys pays Surtain (that would be me) so you're getting off easy...

Gaz
04-01-2005, 07:58 AM
I am afraid it will be McBailey, rather than McDyson.

However, I am determined to accept Mr. Surtain with as much good grace as I can muster.

xoxo~
Gaz
On board [even if he did have to be dragged, kicking and screaming].

Sparhawk
04-01-2005, 07:59 AM
A couple things bother me about all this waiting for Mr. Surtain. First someone could sweep in and take him from us, for instance the Chargers...then the only choice for us is Law, who is a gamble IMHO at this time. Is it possible the Karl is considering making a trade up in the draft? That's the only reason I can think of that the FO would not pull the trigger on this deal now if a contract with Surtain has been worked out. No way will the Dolphins take a 4th...Sure it's worth asking about, but I just don't see it happening realistically. I hate this waiting game, it's too risky.

John_Wayne
04-01-2005, 08:02 AM
Trade the #2. Hold fast. We'll get him for less. No one else is negotiating with them. We're the only business they've got. I wouldn't do anything except offer a 4th until the day of the draft. Then, I'd throw in a player with the 4th or offer the 4th and a pick next year. There's no way we should give a 2nd round pick. apparently, 30 other teams in the NFL think a 2nd round pick is too high too. I don't often do it, but I support Carl in his hold out. A buddy of mine is a Mod at a Dolphins BB. He says that he's seen alot local Florida info that says that Miami is behind the 8 ball. They can't carry Surtain's salary cap number this year. If the Chiefs pulled out of this deal all together, there's a good chance that Miami would just have to release Surtain without compensation. But, it is more likely that they'll give in and take less than a 2nd round pick in compensation. They're desperate and they are bluffing. The Chiefs are in a minor position of strength in this negotiation. We've got 2 options, Surtain and Law. Miami is in a weak negotiating position, they've only got one option, the Chiefs. Unless another team jumps into the bidding, we should just sit tight and let the Dolphins sweat.

keg in kc
04-01-2005, 08:14 AM
As I've said a lot lately, I agree with the concept of waiting, but I do think a 4th is a bit of a lowball, although it's the best we can do this year. Which is why I'd offer them our '06 second round pick, or else make a conditional offer with next year's picks. But no way do I offer our '05 second.

jspchief
04-01-2005, 08:16 AM
I think we should stand firm for several reasons.


1. I do think we're at a position of strength here. If Miami keeps surtain, they won't have enough money to sign their first, let alone any second round pick. The few other teams that showed interest have already found other CBs...all indications are that we are the last team in need. If any other team had the need for an 8-digit CB, they wouldn't be sitting around. I agree a 4th is a hose job for Miami, and Surtain is worth a 2nd, but I don't think the Phins have a choice. Can they franchise him this year when he's already under contract?

2. We need that 2nd just as bad as Miami does. If we trade that pick, we essentially get one first day player (our 3rd is basically an early 4th). Our team is too old at too many positions for us to abandon a shot at 1st day talent. I'm willing to bet the 2nd rnd is where we get our WR.

Gaz
04-01-2005, 08:17 AM
Why would we be so eager to give up a 2nd Rounder? There are no other suitors for Surtain’s services. Despite Saban’s assurances, the consensus I read is that Miami wants to rid themselves of Surtain’s contract. The Chiefs have more options than Miami would like. All these factors indicate that we should continue to negotiate and let Miami consider how few options they really have.

Wait until much closer to the draft [like ten minutes before our name is called] before making any deal.

Be patient and wait for the best opportunity to strike.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not in any hurry.

htismaqe
04-01-2005, 08:18 AM
The 2nd should be traded immediately.

And for the record, this degenerative knee condition is a MYTH created here. I haven't seen it ONE other place.

It's not a MYTH.

That post was made by ME, after hearing on BOTH 810 and 610 from the Miami BEAT WRITER that he has a knee condition and the Dolphins think he has 2 to 3 years, at best, left.

Gaz
04-01-2005, 08:18 AM
How about a conditional pick next year?

If Surtain does not get Baileyed in 2005, we give them our 2006 2nd Rounder.

xoxo~
Gaz
Working the system.

jspchief
04-01-2005, 08:22 AM
It's not a MYTH.

That post was made by ME, after hearing on BOTH 810 and 610 from the Miami BEAT WRITER that he has a knee condition and the Dolphins think he has 2 to 3 years, at best, left.

I'm not questioning whether you heard it or not, but I'm with Bad Guy on this one. I've yet to see a single article mentioning Surtain's knee. Not saying it isn't true, but you'd think we'd hear more about it, especially considering the way our FO likes to use injuries as an excuse.

htismaqe
04-01-2005, 08:29 AM
We WILL NOT get Surtain for a 4th. I WILL take a 2nd.

But why give it up NOW? Wait until the draft, make some trades to recoup picks, and give them a pick later in the 2nd round.

htismaqe
04-01-2005, 08:41 AM
I'm not questioning whether you heard it or not, but I'm with Bad Guy on this one. I've yet to see a single article mentioning Surtain's knee. Not saying it isn't true, but you'd think we'd hear more about it, especially considering the way our FO likes to use injuries as an excuse.

Here's a repost of a Herald article (Herald, like Star, makes you register):

http://www.zerogravitysports.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-994.html

HEALTH CONCERNS

The only downside for Surtain has been a nagging knee problem and concern among people on the team that he hasn't stayed in the best possible shape to handle the knee concerns.


This would appear to be a copy of the same article, from the WHB website:

http://www.810whb.com/scripts/archives/getstory.asp?article=9580&string=noSearch

Lzen
04-01-2005, 08:47 AM
Im no GM, but we offer a 4, they balk, how bout our 2 for their 3 and Surtain. Yeah right. Just do the deal already, I am 99.9% sure our 2nd rounder won't be a pro bowler next year, and there's a decent shot Surtain could be.

I was thinking the same thing. Good idea.
:thumb:

Lzen
04-01-2005, 08:57 AM
christian okoye...third round

Actually, Christian Okoye was not drafted in Carl Peterson's tenure. And he was drafted in the 2nd round. At least according to this site:

http://www.chiefswarroom.net/kcwarroom/1980sdraft.shtml

Says he was drafted in the 1987 draft as the 7th pick of the 2nd round.

Lzen
04-01-2005, 08:58 AM
jared allen...fith round

I'm pretty sure Jared Allen was a 4th round pick. Geez, try to get your facts straight before posting. Otherwise, you just look like an idiot.

Lzen
04-01-2005, 09:04 AM
Peterson didn't draft Okoye smartguy.

Rashaan Shehee, Matt Blundin, William Bartee, Mike Cloud, Eddie Freeman, Kevin Lockett, Donnell Bennett, Mike Elkins.

All 2nd round Carl Peterson picks.

While I agree with the sentiment that the Chiefs have not drafted well in the 2nd round in CP's tenure, I don't necessarily think that Lockett and Benenett were bad picks. They turned out to be productive players for us. Albeit they never turned into superstars. Perhaps one might say they were 3rd or 4th round talent that we drafted in the 2nd. But all the others on that list were busts, no doubt.

Brock
04-01-2005, 09:06 AM
The Surtain knee thing is discussed a little bit here.

http://dolphins.scout.com/2/349025.html

He denies it, and it sounds like that was a diagnosis that was made a while ago.

htismaqe
04-01-2005, 09:19 AM
The Surtain knee thing is discussed a little bit here.

http://dolphins.scout.com/2/349025.html

He denies it, and it sounds like that was a diagnosis that was made a while ago.

So yes, it's not a ChiefsPlanet myth. It did come from somewhere.

Whether it can be substantiated is another story, but I never said that it could be.

I merely pointed out that some beat writer from the Herald said, more than once, that Surtain has a knee condition and the team wasn't high on it...

keg in kc
04-01-2005, 09:22 AM
I merely pointed out that some beat writer from the Herald said, more than once, that Surtain has a knee condition and the team wasn't high on it...And if that is true, I think it's fair to say that it's not something they're going to shout from the rooftops while they're trying to trade him...

Lzen
04-01-2005, 09:23 AM
So yes, it's not a ChiefsPlanet myth. It did come from somewhere.

Whether it can be substantiated is another story, but I never said that it could be.

I merely pointed out that some beat writer from the Herald said, more than once, that Surtain has a knee condition and the team wasn't high on it...


Do you know if the Chiefs doctors have taken a look at his knee? I wonder what they think about that.

htismaqe
04-01-2005, 09:32 AM
Do you know if the Chiefs doctors have taken a look at his knee? I wonder what they think about that.

I'm sure if we've given him a contract offer, we've checked out his knee.

Carl is almost TOO cautious...

AirForceChief
04-01-2005, 10:17 AM
How about a conditional pick next year?

If Surtain does not get Baileyed in 2005, we give them our 2006 2nd Rounder.

xoxo~
Gaz
Working the system.


Explain the word Baileyed, please...

Gaz
04-01-2005, 12:26 PM
Explain the word Baileyed, please...

Baileyed is when a team fork over tons of money and either a good player or draft pick for a “shutdown Cornerback” who then illustrates [in graphic and often hilarious detail] that there is no such thing as a “shutdown Cornerback” under the current NFL PI rules.

xoxo~
Gaz
Expects a lot more Baileying to occur as the NFL and Referees warm up to completed passes.

htismaqe
04-01-2005, 12:40 PM
Baileyed is when a team fork over tons of money and either a good player or draft pick for a “shutdown Cornerback” who then illustrates [in graphic and often hilarious detail] that there is no such thing as a “shutdown Cornerback” under the current NFL PI rules.

xoxo~
Gaz
Expects a lot more Baileying to occur as the NFL and Referees warm up to completed passes.


There's zero chance that this Surtain deal turns out like Bailey.

We're giving up an UNUSED 2nd-round pick. The Broncos gave up a 2nd-round pick that had rushed for 3000 yards and 29 TD's in his first 2 seasons...

unlurking
04-01-2005, 01:01 PM
Miami has the numbers 2, 70, and 104 pick on day one. I would not be opposed to giving our 2nd (46) in return for Surtain AND the 70 or 104.

If not, I expect to wait until draft day when we trade down our first and offer a lower 2nd or 3rd to Miami.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 01:07 PM
Baileyed is when a team fork over tons of money and either a good player or draft pick for a “shutdown Cornerback” who then illustrates [in graphic and often hilarious detail] that there is no such thing as a “shutdown Cornerback” under the current NFL PI rules.

xoxo~
Gaz
Expects a lot more Baileying to occur as the NFL and Referees warm up to completed passes.


Keep using that rule crutch Gaz.

You need 1 of 2 things to be a good corner in the NFL. Superior talent or superior coaching.

The Chiefs don't have superior coaching, so they need someone with superior talent.

I could care less about the NFL PI rules. Someone has to cover Randy Moss. They aren't going to throw a flag every single down.

I feel much better about a Patrick Surtain covering Moss as opposed to someone you want - like an Andre Dyson.

Didn't seem like the PI rules hurt the Dolphins pass D too much last year - they were #1 in the NFL and if we could take 50% of their secondary I feel pretty damn good about that.

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 03:09 PM
Don't be concerned about the knee thing. Surtain's only missed 4 days in his career ever. The knee thing is something that'll affect him when he's around 35-36 if he were still playing. It was just something the phins front office under the old Wanny regime leaked out in an attempt to get Surtain to sign cheaper. Very overblown.

But I will tell you this there is no way your getting Surtain for less then a second. Saban will keep him this year if all the Chiefs are going to offer is a 4th. K.C. also better get it done soon as they have now done the dirty work for other teams (the contract). The phins 'can' keep Surtain's number for this year it would just mean changing up a couple contracts to get the draft picks cap numbers in there.

Don't be surprised if you start hearing rublings of new teams entering the fray next week now that the dirty works done.

McKenzie was traded for a 2nd and he's not a probowl CB and he's roughly the same age. Markets set K.C. Either crap in the pot or get off it.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2005, 03:13 PM
Don't be concerned about the knee thing. Surtain's only missed 4 days in his career ever. The knee thing is something that'll affect him when he's around 35-36 if he were still playing. It was just something the phins front office under the old Wanny regime leaked out in an attempt to get Surtain to sign cheaper. Very overblown.

But I will tell you this there is no way your getting Surtain for less then a second. Saban will keep him this year if all the Chiefs are going to offer is a 4th. K.C. also better get it done soon as they have now done the dirty work for other teams (the contract). The phins 'can' keep Surtain's number for this year it would just mean changing up a couple contracts to get the draft picks cap numbers in there.

Don't be surprised if you start hearing rublings of new teams entering the fray next week now that the dirty works done.

McKenzie was traded for a 2nd and he's not a probowl CB and he's roughly the same age. Markets set K.C. Either crap in the pot or get off it.

There is no market set. If that was the case, everyone would be trading #2s for 3rd string QBs like AJ Feeley.

I agree though, the Chiefs need to do the 2, but if they do the 2, the Dolphins will prolly give back a 4th or 5th.

Brock
04-01-2005, 03:15 PM
Don't be concerned about the knee thing. Surtain's only missed 4 days in his career ever. The knee thing is something that'll affect him when he's around 35-36 if he were still playing. It was just something the phins front office under the old Wanny regime leaked out in an attempt to get Surtain to sign cheaper. Very overblown.

But I will tell you this there is no way your getting Surtain for less then a second. Saban will keep him this year if all the Chiefs are going to offer is a 4th. K.C. also better get it done soon as they have now done the dirty work for other teams (the contract). The phins 'can' keep Surtain's number for this year it would just mean changing up a couple contracts to get the draft picks cap numbers in there.

Don't be surprised if you start hearing rublings of new teams entering the fray next week now that the dirty works done.

McKenzie was traded for a 2nd and he's not a probowl CB and he's roughly the same age. Markets set K.C. Either crap in the pot or get off it.

Eh, keep him.

BigChiefFan
04-01-2005, 03:15 PM
Don't be concerned about the knee thing. Surtain's only missed 4 days in his career ever. The knee thing is something that'll affect him when he's around 35-36 if he were still playing. It was just something the phins front office under the old Wanny regime leaked out in an attempt to get Surtain to sign cheaper. Very overblown.

But I will tell you this there is no way your getting Surtain for less then a second. Saban will keep him this year if all the Chiefs are going to offer is a 4th. K.C. also better get it done soon as they have now done the dirty work for other teams (the contract). The phins 'can' keep Surtain's number for this year it would just mean changing up a couple contracts to get the draft picks cap numbers in there.

Don't be surprised if you start hearing rublings of new teams entering the fray next week now that the dirty works done.

McKenzie was traded for a 2nd and he's not a probowl CB and he's roughly the same age. Markets set K.C. Either crap in the pot or get off it.

Saban has some leverage here, but so does Carl Peterson. Saban can keep Surtain, however, Carl knows you all are up against the cap and can't afford Surtain. Sure you all could keep him, but what good would that do? You either lose him next without compensation or you franchise him and you are back in the same boat having to carry the franchise tag money on a one year deal. Carl won't give up the farm for any one player, so we could be in for Hell of a ride.

Skip Towne
04-01-2005, 03:20 PM
Don't be concerned about the knee thing. Surtain's only missed 4 days in his career ever. The knee thing is something that'll affect him when he's around 35-36 if he were still playing. It was just something the phins front office under the old Wanny regime leaked out in an attempt to get Surtain to sign cheaper. Very overblown.

But I will tell you this there is no way your getting Surtain for less then a second. Saban will keep him this year if all the Chiefs are going to offer is a 4th. K.C. also better get it done soon as they have now done the dirty work for other teams (the contract). The phins 'can' keep Surtain's number for this year it would just mean changing up a couple contracts to get the draft picks cap numbers in there.

Don't be surprised if you start hearing rublings of new teams entering the fray next week now that the dirty works done.

McKenzie was traded for a 2nd and he's not a probowl CB and he's roughly the same age. Markets set K.C. Either crap in the pot or get off it.
Nope, we've already got him. I read it on the Planet.

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 03:24 PM
Saban has some leverage here, but so does Carl Peterson. Saban can keep Surtain, however, Carl knows you all are up against the cap and can't afford Surtain. Sure you all could keep him, but what good would that do? You either lose him next without compensation or you franchise him and you are back in the same boat having to carry the franchise tag money on a one year deal. Carl won't give up the farm for any one player, so we could be in for Hell of a ride.

Yah it'll get interesting but don't be surprised if the Chargers or the Cowboys decide to jump in now that the contracts set. Setting the contract is the harder part so it means Peterson must be warming up to the idea of a 2nd. I mean really he's done such a crappy job with 2nd rounders that he should do it. A 4th rounder is such a joke that the team would rather let him play this year then aquire a 4th.

Trust me a couple teams are probably watching this pretty closely. How many times have we seen teams working on a trade only to have some team snake it at the end.

I'll keep Surtain over a 4th anyday and anyone ever thinking they'd get Surtain for a 4th is off their rocker. He'll go for no less then a 2nd to someone.

Peterson really has no leverage. He's tipped his hand on how much he wants him by working out the contract. He's using Law as the fallback which is no threat as the guy is 31, injured and if past history tells us anything that people look better in that Patriots system then they do elsewhere (Jones, Bledsoe, Woody).

chiefsfolife
04-01-2005, 03:26 PM
I'm pretty sure Jared Allen was a 4th round pick. Geez, try to get your facts straight before posting. Otherwise, you just look like an idiot.


yea...you guys are right about okoye and allen. I was just goin off the top of my head.

HolmeZz
04-01-2005, 03:26 PM
The Cowboys have Newman and just gave a 10 mil SB to Henry.

VanDolPhan
04-01-2005, 03:30 PM
The Cowboys have Newman and just gave a 10 mil SB to Henry.

Ah right I forgot about the Henry signing. Anyways it'll come down to a 2nd and a 5th in the end. That's what I'm predicting and even then I don't think the phins are getting fair value.

BigChiefFan
04-01-2005, 03:33 PM
Yah it'll get interesting but don't be surprised if the Chargers or the Cowboys decide to jump in now that the contracts set. Setting the contract is the harder part so it means Peterson must be warming up to the idea of a 2nd. I mean really he's done such a crappy job with 2nd rounders that he should do it. A 4th rounder is such a joke that the team would rather let him play this year then aquire a 4th.

Trust me a couple teams are probably watching this pretty closely. How many times have we seen teams working on a trade only to have some team snake it at the end.

I'll keep Surtain over a 4th anyday and anyone ever thinking they'd get Surtain for a 4th is off their rocker. He'll go for no less then a 2nd to someone.

Peterson really has no leverage. He's tipped his hand on how much he wants him by working out the contract. He's using Law as the fallback which is no threat as the guy is 31, injured and if past history tells us anything that people look better in that Patriots system then they do elsewhere (Jones, Bledsoe, Woody).
We'll see what happens, but I doubt somebody steals him away from us. We already knew there would be compensation to the fins and we still negotiated a contract and Surtain agreed in principle to it. No way Carl, gets egg on his face and loses out on Surtain. I think you all will get pick/s, but I see it shaking out for both parties best interest. If you all are re-building you need picks, without them, it's all for not.

beer bacon
04-01-2005, 03:45 PM
Ah right I forgot about the Henry signing. Anyways it'll come down to a 2nd and a 5th in the end. That's what I'm predicting and even then I don't think the phins are getting fair value.

Value doesn't have much to do with it. It all comes down to whether Saban thinks the team will be better off taking the picks and trading Surtain or holding onto him. If the team will be better with the picks then that is what you should do.

chappy
04-01-2005, 09:53 PM
we will get him trust me miami is trying to bluff and they are only gonna get worked. the fins are lame they deserve a 7th

TEX
04-02-2005, 12:23 AM
What about this years 4th or 5th and next years 2nd? :hmmm: Have the Fins said that they want a 2nd in this years draft?

VanDolPhan
04-02-2005, 12:48 AM
What about this years 4th or 5th and next years 2nd? :hmmm: Have the Fins said that they want a 2nd in this years draft?

Saban has been near 'whiney' about the fact the phins don't have a 2nd in this years draft. He'll want a 2nd this year as that will open so many options for the 2nd pick in the draft as they could then go pretty much anywhere with the 2nd pick and use the 2nd rounder on a RB.

Gaz
04-02-2005, 08:03 AM
As the #15 pick nears, the Dolphins will come down and the Chiefs will come up.

Both sides want the deal done, thus it shall be done. It will not be a the Chiefs’ 2nd Rounder or the 4th Rounder. It will be some arcane combination of picks that let both sides feel like they won and provide PR cover for the respective staffs. The Chiefs might trade down and give up a lower 2nd Rounder. The deal might include some future picks. There are way too many combinations to cover. The only sure thing is that it will happen.

All this conversation/negotiation via the media is just posing.

xoxo~
Gaz
Ignoring the smoke and waiting until draft time for some fire.

keg in kc
04-02-2005, 08:49 AM
blah blah blah :BS: :BS: :BS: blah de blah blahYep.

Gaz
04-02-2005, 09:51 AM
blah blah blah blah de blah blah

Well, I must admit that you vividly captured the essence of my post.

xoxo~
Gaz
Recently compressed and looking to unzip.

WebGem
04-02-2005, 09:59 AM
I will ****ing murder somebody if we do not get Surtain.

keg in kc
04-02-2005, 10:23 AM
Well, I must admit that you vividly captured the essence of my post.It's a talent. Although I have to admit that's how everybody sounds to me.xoxo~
Gaz
Recently compressed and looking to unzip.Sounds like you need a doctor. Or a hooker.

eazyb81
04-02-2005, 10:38 AM
What about this years 4th or 5th and next years 2nd? :hmmm: Have the Fins said that they want a 2nd in this years draft?

This is what I am expecting as well. CP does not want to give up that 2nd this year, so I would bet that we will give them a 4th/5th this year and a conditional 1st day pick next year (something like a 1st if he starts all 16 games and makes Pro Bowl, otherwise a 2nd). Like someone else stated, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few picks change hands so each team can try and show that they won the negotiation.

The Bad Guy
04-02-2005, 11:34 AM
What retard Carl Peterson also doesn't understand is that the Dolphins will likely get a 3rd as a compensatory pick in 2006. He can continue to low-ball them all he wants, but if I'm Miami no way do I trade this guy for a 4th when I can get a 3rd next year for keeping him on my roster another year.