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Cochise
04-01-2005, 11:27 AM
On drudge, saw it on another website too.

KingPriest2
04-01-2005, 11:28 AM
Cnn had it as well

Coach
04-01-2005, 11:28 AM
On drudge, saw it on another website too.

CNN has shown that Reuters and Italian Media reports that he has died. However CNN independently, has not confirmed it yet.

Cochise
04-01-2005, 11:30 AM
CNN has shown that Reuters and Italian Media reports that he has died. However CNN has not confirmed it yet.

The vatican has a ceremonial process by which they would confirm it, so it seems likely nothing would be immediately forthcoming from them.

Braincase
04-01-2005, 11:31 AM
Here's hoping the next one was as good as JPII. Guy had a good run.

vckcchiefs04
04-01-2005, 11:34 AM
R.I.P. JPII :(

Mark M
04-01-2005, 11:34 AM
Here's hoping the next one was as good as JPII. Guy had a good run.

I'm not Catholic--heck, I'm barely even agnostic--but the way he held things together during what was probably the most difficult time in the Church's history truly was amazing.

Best ... Pope ... Ever.

MM
~~:sulk:

WilliamTheIrish
04-01-2005, 11:35 AM
Here's hoping the next one was as good as JPII. Guy had a good run.

No doubt.

A good friend of mine was in the crowd when the first assassination attempt was made. (Prior to the intrduction of the Popemobile.)

Cochise
04-01-2005, 11:36 AM
Best ... Pope ... Ever.


Better than Peter? ;)

Kidding. RIP, he helped do a lot of good in the world, even if you have reservations about the RCC.

Mark M
04-01-2005, 11:37 AM
Better than Peter? ;)

Kidding. RIP, he helped do a lot of good in the world, even if you have reservations about the RCC.
Well, okay. That guy was alright as well.

MM
~~;)

Cochise
04-01-2005, 11:38 AM
Drudge is the only site I can find that is reporting he is dead. The others have the same stories up from this morning.

Hoover
04-01-2005, 11:38 AM
I'm not Catholic--heck, I'm barely even agnostic--but the way he held things together during what was probably the most difficult time in the Church's history truly was amazing.

Best ... Pope ... Ever.

MM
~~:sulk:
thats just the recent stuff, what about being from Poland under the communist rule and fighting against it during the height of the cold war.

Otter
04-01-2005, 11:39 AM
Pretty sure he has a VIP pass to the pearly gates.

RIP my man.

Chiefs_Fan_n_64081
04-01-2005, 11:39 AM
what a total bummer.

The man gave his all, and is one of, if not the most respected popes ever.

I actually feel sorry for whomever is next in line. It's almost a given that they will not be able to fill such big shoes.

big nasty kcnut
04-01-2005, 11:40 AM
Well it the way my grandmom died almost the same way. rest in peace jpII

KingPriest2
04-01-2005, 11:41 AM
Weird CNN just pulled it from their website.

Amnorix
04-01-2005, 11:41 AM
Although I disagreed with some of his positions, he was truly a good man. I was most pleased with his efforts at fighting anti-semitism and communism, both of which stretched back to before his elevation to the papacy.

Rest in peace.

KCFalcon59
04-01-2005, 11:41 AM
May he Rest In Peace. A truly great and Holy man. He will be missed.

chiefqueen
04-01-2005, 11:44 AM
Weird CNN just pulled it from their website.

I saw that too.

JimNasium
04-01-2005, 11:44 AM
It will be interesting to see who his successor is. I'm assuming it will be someone from the conservative wing of the church.

Hoover
04-01-2005, 11:46 AM
I have heard Bill Clinton wants to be pope

bkkcoh
04-01-2005, 11:50 AM
I have heard Bill Clinton wants to be pope

He is waiting for the slightly higher position, God!!!!

JimNasium
04-01-2005, 11:51 AM
Drudge has backed down too.

Chiefs_Fan_n_64081
04-01-2005, 11:54 AM
I have heard Bill Clinton wants to be pope


I'd vote for him.

I am something of a rarity when it comes to Clinton.
This being that I am a fundamental Christian who does not see him as being the very incarnation of the "froward man".

ENDelt260
04-01-2005, 11:55 AM
Drudge has backed down too.
Italian media gave contradictory reports about Pope John Paul's vital signs on Friday, first saying his heart and brain activity had stopped and then reporting this was not true... Developing...

KingPriest2
04-01-2005, 11:56 AM
Sad if the Italian media did that.

Cochise
04-01-2005, 11:57 AM
Drudge has backed down too.

Looks like some are saying he died and others that he was unconscious but his heart and brain function were showing some signs of life.

If he does pass I will be interested to see the process of selection. Never happened in my lifetime before.

JimNasium
04-01-2005, 11:58 AM
Looks like some are saying he died and others that he was unconscious but his heart and brain function were showing some signs of life.

If he does pass I will be interested to see the process of selection. Never happened in my lifetime before.
It seems like the last time this happened they selected a pope who died shortly thereafter and then they selected JPII.

penguinz
04-01-2005, 11:59 AM
I bet the next pope's name is not Phil.

Amnorix
04-01-2005, 12:03 PM
It seems like the last time this happened they selected a pope who died shortly thereafter and then they selected JPII.

yes, the Pope immediately before JPII was only Pope for a month before dying.

What happened there was a big fraction in the College of Cardinals, and so they purposefully selected a Pope they knew would not reign for long, as a "caretaker", to give them more time to get their act together.

JimNasium
04-01-2005, 12:05 PM
yes, the Pope immediately before JPII was only Pope for a month before dying.

What happened there was a big fraction in the College of Cardinals, and so they purposefully selected a Pope they knew would not reign for long, as a "caretaker", to give them more time to get their act together.
You seem to know more about this than me. Would you assume that JPII has a successor in the wings already?

Amnorix
04-01-2005, 12:08 PM
You seem to know more about this than me. Would you assume that JPII has a successor in the wings already?

Most likely. The manuevering to succeed a sitting pope is full of politicking and intrigue within the Vatican and Church as a whole. All out of sight from us, of course.

But the Pope's health has been in steady decline for quite some time, and I'm sure that the top candidate or two has manuevered into the position they want by now. I'm sure it will take only a very small number of votes by the Cardinals to select his successor.

This was posted the other day, if you want more details about the process.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/pope/election.asp

|Zach|
04-01-2005, 12:09 PM
You seem to know more about this than me. Would you assume that JPII has a successor in the wings already?
Actually I am flying out to the Vatican soon...

bkkcoh
04-01-2005, 12:09 PM
No I am not trying to push the Pope into the grave, but I am sure that some people may have been interested in knowing what goes into the selection of a Pope.


<a href=" http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/selection/" target="_blank">Selection of a Pope </a>


The most common method, however, is election by ballot, which works as follows:
When the pope dies, the dean of the Sacred College of Cardinals notifies the cardinals and calls a meeting -- always held in the morning -- that must begin no more than 20 days after the pope's death.
The cardinals draw lots to select three members to collect ballots from the infirm, three "tellers" to count the votes and three others to review the results.
Blank ballots are then prepared and distributed.
After writing the name of one man on his ballot, each of the approximately 120 active cardinals -- those under 80 years of age -- walks to an altar and pledges to perform his duty with integrity. He then places his ballot in a container which is covered by a plate.
After all votes are cast, the tellers tally the ballots and the result is read to the cardinals.
If there is no winner, another vote is taken. If there is still no winner, two more votes are scheduled for the afternoon.
After the votes are counted each time, the ballots are burned. If there has been no winner, a chemical is mixed with the ballots to produce black smoke when they are burned. Sight of the black smoke emerging from the roof of the Vatican Palace tells those waiting in St. Peter's Square that a pope has not yet been selected. When a winner has been selected, the ballots are burned alone, and the white smoke indicates there is a new pope.
Traditionally, the winner had to garner two-thirds of the vote plus one, but John Paul II changed that in 1996. He ruled that if, after 12 or 13 days there is still no winner, the conclave could invoke a rule -- by majority vote -- that would permit the selection of the pope by an absolute majority.
Once there is a winner, the pope-elect is asked if he accepts the decision. (Pope John Paul II reportedly accepted his election with tears in his eyes.) If he does, the dean asks what name he chooses and announces it to the cardinals, who then come forward to offer congratulations.
The oldest cardinal then steps out on a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square and says to the crowd, "Habemus papam" -- "We have a pope." He then introduces the pope, who steps out on the balcony to bless Rome and the world.
Many popes have been formally installed with a coronation, but Pope John Paul II refused a coronation and was installed as the pope during a Mass in St. Peter's Square.

Amnorix
04-01-2005, 12:11 PM
Actully I am flying out to the Vatican soon...

Further to your post, and in reference to your sig, will your Papacy bow to the almighty wisdom of the Gaz? Will this become the subject of a Papal Bull?

Will the Gaz finally reach an anointed place somewhere between the Pope and God?

Amnorix
(quickly becoming incredibly blasphemous...)

|Zach|
04-01-2005, 12:12 PM
Further to your post, and in reference to your sig, will your Papacy bow to the almighty wisdom of the Gaz? Will this become the subject of a Papal Bull?

Will the Gaz finally reach an anointed place somewhere between the Pope and God?

Amnorix
(quickly becoming incredibly blasphemous...)
Zach is gonna run this show...

Gaz Schmaz.

bkkcoh
04-01-2005, 12:13 PM
You seem to know more about this than me. Would you assume that JPII has a successor in the wings already?


http://www.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9901/pope.successors/top.exclude.html

Amnorix
04-01-2005, 12:15 PM
Zach is gonna run this show...

Gaz Schmaz.

and there goes the sig right out the window. :LOL: :LOL:

|Zach|
04-01-2005, 12:16 PM
and there goes the sig right out the window. :LOL: :LOL:
Indeed...prepare world.

I am about to get my Pope on.

WilliamTheIrish
04-01-2005, 12:20 PM
yes, the Pope immediately before JPII was only Pope for a month before dying.

What happened there was a big fraction in the College of Cardinals, and so they purposefully selected a Pope they knew would not reign for long, as a "caretaker", to give them more time to get their act together.

We joked around in (Catholic) high school that the Vatican should have instituted a pre-employment physical before selection of JP-I.

The nuns did not get a big kick out of it.

Amnorix
04-01-2005, 12:22 PM
We joked around in (Catholic) high school that the Vatican should have instituted a pre-employment physical before selection of JP-I.

The nuns did not get a big kick out of it.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-01-2005, 12:30 PM
The Vatican says the Pope is NOT dead....this from www.cnn.com just moments ago.

Vatican: Pope's condition 'has worsened'
Friday, April 1, 2005 Posted: 2:24 PM EST (1924 GMT)


VATICAN CITY (CNN) -- Pope John Paul II's breathing is becoming shallow and several of his major organs -- including his kidneys and heart -- are growing weaker, the Vatican said Friday.

"The general conditions and cardio-respiratory conditions of the Holy Father have further worsened. A gradual worsening arterial hypotension has been noted, and breathing has become shallow," the Vatican press office said.

"The clinical picture indicates cardio-circulatory and renal insufficiency. The biological parameters are notably compromised. The Holy Father, with visible participation, is joining the continual prayers of those assisting him."

The Vatican has denied reports in the Italian media that the pope had died.

Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said earlier that the pope was in "very serious condition" Friday afternoon, but he is "lucid, fully conscious" and "very serene."

Navarro-Valls also said earlier that the pope's blood pressure was "unstable" and that he "... asked for the Holy Scriptures to be read to him."

The pope had a number of visitors Friday, including the Vatican's secretary of state and several cardinals. Navarro-Valls said the pope celebrated a Mass and remembered that today was Friday, the day he traditionally follows the ritual of the Stations of the Cross and he meditated on that ritual.

Worldwide prayers
At 7 p.m. local time Friday, a Mass was being held in honor of the pontiff at St. John Lateran Church, celebrated by Camillo Ruini, vicar of Rome.

"In this moment, he is more than ever our pope -- the vicar of Christ --- who livens us with his passion," Ruini said.

At the Mass Friday night, Ruini said the pope was "facing the most difficult test of his long and extraordinary life. He is living with that incredible serenity and he has abandoned himself to the hands of Christ, with whom he has always lived, worked, suffered and had joy."

Italians, Catholics and the faithful the world over have been asked to intensify their prayers for the Holy Father in light of his declining health. (Full story)

In another development, the papal press office issued a list of 17 new papal appointments, including bishops and archbishops, and a list of six archbishops who resigned.

The appointments and the resignations were approved previously by the pope, it said.

The announcements may be an attempt by the Vatican press office to indicate that the business of the Vatican continues. And if the list were to be issued, it would have to be issued now, ahead of a papal death.

Septic shock
Earlier, Navarro-Valls said in a written statement that the pope had suffered cardiocirculatory collapse and septic shock Thursday evening.

According to a Web site of the National Institutes of Health, septic shock is "a serious, abnormal condition that occurs when an overwhelming infection leads to low blood pressure and low blood flow.

"Vital organs, such as the brain, heart, kidneys, and liver may not function properly or may fail. Decreased urine output from kidney failure may be one symptom."

Italian police began closing the streets leading to the Vatican early Friday on expectations that due to the pontiff's grave condition, more pilgrims would come to the area.

Navarro-Valls said the pope was being treated in the Vatican, because it was his desire to remain in his residence and not return to the hospital.

The pope was "being assisted by his personal doctor, Renato Buzzonetti, as well as two intensive care specialists, a cardiologist and an ear, nose and throat specialist, as well as two nurses," the statement said.

On Thursday night, as his health deteriorated, the pontiff received the Catholic Church's sacrament Anointing of the Sick, formerly known as Last Rites or Extreme Unction -- a ritual of healing, a Vatican source told CNN.

The sacrament is given to patients who are seriously ill in addition to those who are near death. The pope also received the sacrament in 1981, when he was wounded by a would-be assassin.

The news of the pope's worsening condition came two days after the Vatican revealed that he had a feeding tube inserted through his nose to provide more nutrition, as he struggled to recover from a tracheotomy five weeks ago.

The 84-year-old pope suffers from a number of chronic illnesses, including crippling hip and knee ailments and Parkinson's disease, a progressive neurological disorder that can make breathing and swallowing difficult.

CNN Rome Bureau Chief Alessio Vinci and Vatican Analyst John Allen contributed to this report.

jcroft
04-01-2005, 12:34 PM
Three things:

1. If this is an April Fools' joke, at least he has better timing than Mitch Hedman (okay, sorry, it was tasteless, I know).

2. Maybe he came back to life. He is the pope, after all. This would explain CNN pulling the story, wouldn't it (okay, again, tasteless)?

3. I'm agnositc and not terribly interested in anything religious, but I have read Dan Brown's Angels and Demons. In that book he chronicles the process of selecting a new Pope and it's actually quite interesting. Given Brown's popularity, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of folks (me included) will tune into this whole ordeal that might not have, had it not been for the book. Just sort of interesting.

Archie F. Swin
04-01-2005, 12:58 PM
I find it interesting that it took quite a while for the college of cardinals to select a successor to John Paul I whom was pope for only 34 days. I would think there would have been a clear "runner-up" as it were. But I guess it took while to select John Paul II.

Even after taking God out of the equation, by earthly standards, Karol Wojtyla (JPII) was a very accomplished man. 2 masters degrees, 2 Doctorates, a very athletic young man. He was said to have been a gifted actor and singer. He was a published poet and a scholar of literature. He was fluent in 8 languages, most recently Spanish. He's the first pope to have a international best seller and the first to have a web site.

Braincase
04-01-2005, 01:10 PM
Michael Schiavo is now asserting that he is he rightful guardian of the Pope, and that JPII whispered to him that he didn't want to be kept alive on life support.

JimNasium
04-01-2005, 01:21 PM
Michael Schiavo is now asserting that he is he rightful guardian of the Pope, and that JPII whispered to him that he didn't want to be kept alive on life support.
You are SOOOO going to hell.

ENDelt260
04-01-2005, 01:24 PM
1. If this is an April Fools' joke, at least he has better timing than Mitch Hedman (okay, sorry, it was tasteless, I know).

Hedberg

ENDelt260
04-01-2005, 01:25 PM
the first to have a web site.

Ha... imagine that. The WWW hadn't really taken off yet in 1978.

ptlyon
04-01-2005, 01:28 PM
Hedberg

It's Hedley...

jcroft
04-01-2005, 01:50 PM
Hedberg

My bad.