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Fire Me Boy!
04-02-2005, 01:03 AM
Chiefs, Surtain near yet far

Team, player agree on contract extension, but trade not imminent

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star


The prospect of Miami cornerback Patrick Surtain joining the Chiefs moved closer to reality but still faces an imposing obstacle.

The Chiefs and Surtain have come to an agreement on a contract extension, sources indicated. It would go into effect only in the case that the Chiefs and Dolphins can agree to terms of a trade.

As of Friday, the teams were nowhere close to an agreement. The Dolphins insisted on receiving a second-round draft pick, while the Chiefs offered nothing better than a fourth-round choice.

A compromise involving a third-round pick isn't an option unless the Chiefs make a trade for another team's pick in that round. The Chiefs don't have their third-round pick, having sent it to Philadelphia in last year's trade for John Welbourn.

The NFL recently awarded a third-round compensatory pick to the Chiefs for losing John Tait as a free agent last year. But compensatory picks can't be traded.

The Chiefs said little Friday about Surtain, a two-time Pro Bowler, and wouldn't acknowledge even that an agreement with Surtain was in place.

“We've shown a real interest in the guy,'' said coach Dick Vermeil, who added that he was unaware of any contract agreement. “But there's got to be a trade made and a contract negotiated.

“We're talking to him. He's a very fine player and has been for a number of years and probably has four or five real good years left in him.''

Miami coach Nick Saban told reporters in Florida that the Dolphins would take nothing less than a second-round pick.

“If someone else wants to work a business deal for him to be on their team, fine,'' Saban said, “but we will not compromise on our price.''

A trade agreement might not happen until the hours before the draft, which begins on April 23, if it happens at all.

The Chiefs talked with St. Louis about a trade for quarterback Trent Green for weeks before the draft in 2001. The Rams insisted on receiving the Chiefs' first-round draft pick, and the Chiefs balked.

The Chiefs finally relented the day before the draft, but only after the Rams sweetened the deal to include a fifth-round pick.

The Chiefs made the acquisition of a veteran cornerback a priority going into the offseason. They allowed more passing yards than any other NFL team last season, and poor play at cornerback was a big reason why.

The Chiefs initially tried to sign Tennessee's Samari Rolle last month but backed off after learning of his spinal condition. They also visited with New England's Ty Law, but Law is still mending from a fractured foot, and the Chiefs are uncertain whether he would be ready to play next season.

The Dolphins had been looking to trade Surtain, who is entering the final year of his contract. The Chiefs have expressed the most interest and are the only team to agree with him on a contract extension.

The Chiefs are satisfied with the play of Eric Warfield at one cornerback position. Both Dexter McCleon and William Bartee struggled last year, and each lost the starting spot at some point during the season.

Even if the Chiefs trade for Surtain or sign Law, they may still decide to select a cornerback in an early round of the draft.

Surtain, 28, has been one of the league's top cornerbacks during his seven seasons.

The Chiefs believe that he has the necessary skills to play the bump-and-run coverage that defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham prefers.

In Miami, Surtain played on some of the league's best defenses and with some of the best defensive players.

That's a luxury he wouldn't have in Kansas City.

Fire Me Boy!
04-02-2005, 01:05 AM
Well...... it's at least nice to read it NOT on April Fool's day.

Redcoats58
04-02-2005, 01:07 AM
In Miami, Surtain played on some of the league's best defenses and with some of the best defensive players.That's a luxury he wouldn't have in Kansas City.

Ouch :banghead:

Fire Me Boy!
04-02-2005, 01:09 AM
Ouch :banghead:
I read that... kinda pissed me off. Teicher is a reporter, he's supposed to be unbiased, and this is a VERY biased opinion.

chiefsfan58
04-02-2005, 01:13 AM
I read that... kinda pissed me off. Teicher is a reporter, he's supposed to be unbiased, and this is a VERY biased opinion.

Hmm, that's so true it's fact... I don't see the big deal.

Joe Seahawk
04-02-2005, 01:13 AM
It doesn't seem biased to an unbiased reader like myself..;)

tk13
04-02-2005, 01:16 AM
I read that... kinda pissed me off. Teicher is a reporter, he's supposed to be unbiased, and this is a VERY biased opinion.
That's the 2nd night in a row he's done that too... that's a pretty objective statement for what's supposed to be a hard news story. I'm sure there are professors in college journalism classes all over the country knocking points off of students' work for doing stuff just like that everyday.

The Bad Guy
04-02-2005, 02:07 AM
Adam Teicher needs to learn the difference between an informative column and an editorial.

His writing sucks.

Fire Me Boy!
04-02-2005, 02:08 AM
Adam Teicher needs to learn the difference between an informative column and an editorial.

His writing sucks.
Thank you.

Rausch
04-02-2005, 02:36 AM
Adam Teicher needs to learn the difference between an informative column and an editorial.

His writing sucks.

I think he smells an opening in the editorial area.

While I like Whitlock's writing (most of the time) he's quickly self-destructing...

chappy
04-02-2005, 03:07 AM
whitlock sucks and needs to diet... and shower

chappy
04-02-2005, 03:09 AM
the star has the worst reporters in journalism as far as being bias.

siberian khatru
04-02-2005, 05:07 AM
That's the 2nd night in a row he's done that too... that's a pretty objective statement for what's supposed to be a hard news story. I'm sure there are professors in college journalism classes all over the country knocking points off of students' work for doing stuff just like that everyday.

Ha! Where do you think he learned that?

J-schools are part of the problem.

keg in kc
04-02-2005, 05:24 AM
I don't get it, either. He's gonna get on the bad side of the front office if he keeps doing this. It's one thing for a columnist to do it, he doesn't need info from the team so it doesn't necessarily matter if he pisses them off, but a beatwriter...

Rausch
04-02-2005, 05:49 AM
I'm sorry, but most people would agree that Surtain would have little help making a top 10 defense in KC.

Our best defensive lineman is a 2nd year player who may or may not repeat his solid pass rushing season, our best LB is a true stud who just can't stay healthy, our best safety just got here and probably doesn't know the system, and our best Corner likes to suck a bottle and shift...

You know me, I like Gun and I think he'll put it all together, but I can definitley understand why someone else wouldn't agree...

Braincase
04-02-2005, 06:03 AM
Give 'em our 2nd and our 4th, we get Surtain and their 3rd.

bricks
04-02-2005, 03:36 PM
I'm sorry, but most people would agree that Surtain would have little help making a top 10 defense in KC.

I think he can make the Chiefs defense at LEAST respectable. he shutsdown one half of the field that makes a difference. warfield just keeps getting better every year(despite the DUI incident, his game is improving). So, you got Surtain, and Warfield. 2 real good corners. Problem is, the Chiefs don't have any LB's, with the exception of Bell. There are no real pass rush threats on this team. Only Allen and Bell are our top passrushers, the rest are nothing to brag about. This team needs another LB. I'm sold on D.Johnson, and, frankly would do anything to get him in a Chiefs jersey. If they can get another LB, with superior pass rush skills, I hear Blackstock is an excellent pass rusher, and good run stuffer, he would also be a good candidate to improve our Lbing corps. so, with that being said, you combine 2 good solid cover corners, with additional pass rushing threats, your pass defense improves tremendously. Fujita and Barber present a real problem to this defense. and, one of them has to go.

htismaqe
04-02-2005, 06:35 PM
I think he can make the Chiefs defense at LEAST respectable. he shutsdown one half of the field that makes a difference. warfield just keeps getting better every year(despite the DUI incident, his game is improving). So, you got Surtain, and Warfield. 2 real good corners. Problem is, the Chiefs don't have any LB's, with the exception of Bell. There are no real pass rush threats on this team. Only Allen and Bell are our top passrushers, the rest are nothing to brag about. This team needs another LB. I'm sold on D.Johnson, and, frankly would do anything to get him in a Chiefs jersey. If they can get another LB, with superior pass rush skills, I hear Blackstock is an excellent pass rusher, and good run stuffer, he would also be a good candidate to improve our Lbing corps. so, with that being said, you combine 2 good solid cover corners, with additional pass rushing threats, your pass defense improves tremendously. Fujita and Barber present a real problem to this defense. and, one of them has to go.

If Barber got a chance to play with Bell and Surtain, he'd look a hell of alot better. He's a good LB, but he's not supposed to be the BEST player on your defense and with the Chiefs, he WAS.

keg in kc
04-02-2005, 06:55 PM
Fujita had 4 and 4.5 sacks the last two seasons, and I think Bell's presence on the field will help him as a pass rusher.

I agree with the concept that the best pass defense is a pass rush, but we don't need another rushbacker or pass rushing linebacker. What we need is a coverage linebacker to play on the weakside, someone who can hang with runningbacks and receivers on the slant.

I think if we're looking to upgrade the pass rush, it needs to be on the front four, preferably someone to replace Hicks. I know, I know -- pipe dream.

Mr. Laz
04-02-2005, 06:59 PM
Fujita had 4 and 4.5 sacks the last two seasons, and I think Bell's presence on the field will help him as a pass rusher.

I agree with the concept that the best pass defense is a pass rush, but we don't need another rushbacker or pass rushing linebacker. What we need is a coverage linebacker to play on the weakside, someone who can hang with runningbacks and receivers on the slant.

I think if we're looking to upgrade the pass rush, it needs to be on the front four, preferably someone to replace Hicks. I know, I know -- pipe dream.

if mitchell can make it as a linebacker... WLB is where he'll have the best chance.

keg in kc
04-02-2005, 07:01 PM
if mitchell can make it as a linebacker... WLB is where he'll have the best chance.Nothing I've seen of him in coverage gives me much hope there, although I didn't see much of last season.

Hell, they may think he still projects as their MLB with all the talk about Bell playing anywhere. Although the thought of Bell playing outside and having to cover...anybody...doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

milkman
04-02-2005, 07:03 PM
If it's true that the Chiefs and Surtain have reached an extension agreement, then Carl needs to make the trade happen.

Why not give the Phins the 2nd and a 5th for Surtain and a 6th.

htismaqe
04-02-2005, 07:20 PM
I basically agree with you guys. We need a WSLB, not a pass rush specialist. Perhaps that guy can be Fox or Mitchell? Both of them did it in college.

I guess we'll see.

Rausch
04-02-2005, 08:10 PM
I basically agree with you guys. We need a WSLB, not a pass rush specialist. Perhaps that guy can be Fox or Mitchell? Both of them did it in college.

I guess we'll see.

I'd prefer to see what Fox can do over what we know Mitchell can't do...

tommykat
04-02-2005, 08:14 PM
Another source reports.....http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-dolphin01apr01,0,5199247.story?coll=sfla-sports-front

sorry if posted earlier......

Herzig
04-02-2005, 08:21 PM
Give 'em our 2nd and our 4th, we get Surtain and their 3rd.

I like this option. They have the 3.2 pick..if the fins would go for it. Paging Carl Peterson...

Woodrow Call
04-02-2005, 09:09 PM
I basically agree with you guys. We need a WSLB, not a pass rush specialist. Perhaps that guy can be Fox or Mitchell? Both of them did it in college.

I guess we'll see.

Mitchell really caught my eye late in the season. It seemed like everything was starting to click. I hope he does move outside and gets a fair chance. I believe it was mentioned that he played OLB some in college

He was hurt for most of his first 2 seasons and had 2 very different schemes. I don't think he deserves to be "Barteed" just yet.

T-post Tom
04-02-2005, 09:20 PM
If it's true that the Chiefs and Surtain have reached an extension agreement, then Carl needs to make the trade happen.

Why not give the Phins the 2nd and a 5th for Surtain and a 6th.

Huh? Why would we give up a 5 for a 6 when all they want is a 2?

Herzig
04-02-2005, 09:22 PM
Huh? Why would we give up a 5 for a 6 when all they want is a 2?

That's what I thought when I read that.

Logical
04-02-2005, 11:07 PM
I read that... kinda pissed me off. Teicher is a reporter, he's supposed to be unbiased, and this is a VERY biased opinion.

Sure seems like a set of facts to me.

Vlad
Wonering what these homers were watching when the Chief _efense was on the field?

htismaqe
04-03-2005, 05:52 AM
Sure seems like a set of facts to me.

Vlad
Wonering what these homers were watching when the Chief _efense was on the field?

See comments by The Bad Guy (aka NOT a Homer)

bricks
04-03-2005, 07:42 AM
If Barber got a chance to play with Bell and Surtain, he'd look a hell of alot better. He's a good LB, but he's not supposed to be the BEST player on your defense and with the Chiefs, he WAS.

Um...there is some truth behind your comments. I do think it is a little premature to say "Barber would look better if he played with Bell and Surtain". Barber was exceptional in Philadelphia. he did have a good, solid surrounding cast around him. When he was brought in to play for KC, he was expected to be one of their best players on Defense, and a leader, I agree with you there. He was expected to make plays. we haven't seen much of that. I do have a problem with Barber's overall game. I don't think he tries hard enough, he doesn't play with a lot of fire, and determination. Very unlike a lot of KC LB's in the past(A.Davis, D.Edwards, DT to name a few). He misses a LOT of tackles, misreads a lot of plays, just overall his game is not impressive. I give him credit for being a GOOD coverage linebacker. He is very exceptional in that aspect of his game. That is all I think he is good for, coverage. And, I don't mind if the Chiefs used him in passing situations only.

keg in kc
04-03-2005, 08:17 AM
don't think he tries hard enough, he doesn't play with a lot of fire, and determination. He misses a LOT of tackles, misreads a lot of plays, just overall his game is not impressive. I give him credit for being a GOOD coverage linebacker. He is very exceptional in that aspect of his game. That is all I think he is good for, coverage.Wait a second, who were we talking about again? Cause that sounds an awful lot like Donnie Edward$ the three years I saw him play here.

bricks
04-03-2005, 08:22 AM
Wait a second, who were we talking about again? Cause that sounds an awful lot like Donnie Edward$ the three years I saw him play here.

Shawn Barber....Donnie Edwards MADE plays here. Barber has not been making plays. see a difference? Don't even go there, Donnie Edwards is an awful lot better than Shawn Barber.

keg in kc
04-03-2005, 08:33 AM
Shawn Barber....Donnie Edwards MADE plays here. Barber has not been making plays. see a difference? Don't even go there, Donnie Edwards is an awful lot better than Shawn Barber.Edward$ did not make a single play the three years I watched him, from '99 to '01. All I saw was a mediocre speed linebacker with some althetic skill who was a liability in run support, who couldn't rush the passer because he wasn't either strong or elusive enough to shed linemen, who got carried and dragged more often than he actually made tackles and who never once showed for a second that he was any kind of leader on the field. But he was good in coverage. And that's it.

I said that at the time and people didn't like it. I don't expect any of his fans to like it now. But it doesn't change the fact that that is what I saw and that I think he was overrated as a Chief. I can't talk about how he's been in San Diego because I haven't had the opportunity to watch him play more than twice a year. Apparently he's been good there. Good for him. That doesn't change what he was here.

andoman
04-03-2005, 10:30 AM
In reference to Mitchell as a coverage LB, I recall quite a few times where he was able to hang with a WR/TE down the middle. Problem is he has no instincts of when to turn his head. The ball actually hit him a few times. Sound familiar?

htismaqe
04-03-2005, 10:59 AM
Um...there is some truth behind your comments. I do think it is a little premature to say "Barber would look better if he played with Bell and Surtain". Barber was exceptional in Philadelphia. he did have a good, solid surrounding cast around him. When he was brought in to play for KC, he was expected to be one of their best players on Defense, and a leader, I agree with you there. He was expected to make plays. we haven't seen much of that. I do have a problem with Barber's overall game. I don't think he tries hard enough, he doesn't play with a lot of fire, and determination. Very unlike a lot of KC LB's in the past(A.Davis, D.Edwards, DT to name a few). He misses a LOT of tackles, misreads a lot of plays, just overall his game is not impressive. I give him credit for being a GOOD coverage linebacker. He is very exceptional in that aspect of his game. That is all I think he is good for, coverage. And, I don't mind if the Chiefs used him in passing situations only.

Shawn Barber made SEVERAL big plays early in the 2003 season. Then he hurt his arm (hand? wrist?) and was never the same. Now his knees are bad.

As for those LB's you listed, look at the line that played in front of them. HUGE difference.

bricks
04-03-2005, 11:25 AM
Shawn Barber made SEVERAL big plays early in the 2003 season. Then he hurt his arm (hand? wrist?) and was never the same. Now his knees are bad.

As for those LB's you listed, look at the line that played in front of them. HUGE difference.

If your so confident that Shawn Barber made SEVERAL plays in 2003, then name some because I can't think of any. I'm talking noticable plays, not these so-so plays. Plays that make a difference in game, that's what he was brought in to do. Ohh, it's too bad he hurt his arm eh? That shouldn't be an excuse for his poor performance. trent f*cking green tapes up his ankles in games, and, I still see the guy stepping up in the pocket throwing passes down the field. I know it's a different position, but, regardless, players get hurt. It's part of the game. Players play hurt, and, when they make plays when their hurting, it shows a lot about their mental toughness, character, does it?

Ok, now, the LB's I listed played on a great line in '95 yes. that I agree. You also recall '97? when we had a so-so line? booker, Phillips, and Williams? that line wasn't so special, compared to the one in '95. Our LB's rocked in '97.

TRR
04-03-2005, 11:32 AM
If your so confident that Shawn Barber made SEVERAL plays in 2003, then name some because I can't think of any. I'm talking noticable plays, not these so-so plays. Plays that make a difference in game, that's what he was brought in to do. Ohh, it's too bad he hurt his arm eh? That shouldn't be an excuse for his poor performance. trent f*cking green tapes up his ankles in games, and, I still see the guy stepping up in the pocket throwing passes down the field. I know it's a different position, but, regardless, players get hurt. It's part of the game. Players play hurt, and, when they make plays when their hurting, it shows a lot about their mental toughness, character, does it?

Ok, now, the LB's I listed played on a great line in '95 yes. that I agree. You also recall '97? when we had a so-so line? booker, Phillips, and Williams? that line wasn't so special, compared to the one in '95. Our LB's rocked in '97.

Well, according to his stats, Barber made 123 plays in 2003. They came in the form of 112 tackles, 5 sacks, 1 INT, and 5 passes defended.

Barber had an excellent year in 2003. A very good season.

bricks
04-03-2005, 12:04 PM
Well, according to his stats, Barber made 123 plays in 2003. They came in the form of 112 tackles, 5 sacks, 1 INT, and 5 passes defended.

Barber had an excellent year in 2003. A very good season.

Not bad...Thanks for the input. I'm wondering how many tackles he made behind the LOS? TFL. I remember the int on the goalline against Pit. how many FF's? FR?