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View Full Version : FA CB Surtain or Draft OLB Johnson?


Gaz
04-04-2005, 02:23 PM
I have read some thoughts about the Chiefs moving up to draft OLB Derrick Johnson. It is a long way to move up from #15 to snag a prize like Johnson. If we were to move up, it would surely cost us our 2nd Round pick, which some folks have earmarked for CB Patrick Surtain [Miami]. I see no scenario where we could have both.

So, who would you rather have?

xoxo~
Gaz
Passing the time.

King_Chief_Fan
04-04-2005, 02:24 PM
I have read some thoughts about the Chiefs moving up to draft OLB Derrick Johnson. It is a long way to move up from #15 to snag a prize like Johnson. If we were to move up, it would surely cost us our 2nd Round pick, which some folks have earmarked for CB Patrick Surtain [Miami]. I see no scenario where we could have both.

So, who would you rather have?

xoxo~
Gaz
Passing the time.


I would go after Williams.....pick up some other CB somewhere. Any are better than Bartee.

Der Flöprer
04-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Both, include a couple picks of next years draft to make it happen.

Saulbadguy
04-04-2005, 02:25 PM
I think Surtain would better fill our immediate needs, but down the line, Johnson would be better for the team.

I'd draft DJ, and pick up Ty law.

jcroft
04-04-2005, 02:26 PM
I think Surtain plus our #15 pick. Johnson is going to be a stud, no doubt, but I really feel like our biggest hole is at CB. We ought to still be able to get a solid defensive player at #15. We've got enough issues on defense that I'll take the vetran all-pro CB and a pretty good rookie over the super-stud rookie.

Gaz
04-04-2005, 02:30 PM
What OLB do you want at #15?

xoxo~
Gaz
Pondering the ponderables.

Coogs
04-04-2005, 02:32 PM
I'd draft DJ, and pick up Ty law.

:clap:

JimNasium
04-04-2005, 02:34 PM
Where is the "All this speculation makes my hair hurt" option?

jcroft
04-04-2005, 02:34 PM
What OLB do you want at #15?

xoxo~
Gaz
Pondering the ponderables.


I don't know, I haven't been keeping up with the rookies much.

Saulbadguy
04-04-2005, 02:38 PM
Wait a minute..what ever happened to the "I don't want DJ..he is a Greg Robinson infected player" talk?! My my..how we forget so soon...

Hoover
04-04-2005, 02:39 PM
Surtain, need the CB

Hoover
04-04-2005, 02:41 PM
So what if its Surtain and Pac Man vs D Johnson.

Getting Surtain and a defensive player at 15 is what this team needs.

ct
04-04-2005, 02:42 PM
I said Surtain, but I still see possibility for both. It may not cost us that 2nd rounder for Surtain, then we CAN potentially give it up(plus more I'm sure) to get DJ. But Surtain comes 1st, otherwise keep it and take Rogers.

KChiefs1
04-04-2005, 02:42 PM
Here is my poll:

Which would be better?

Drafting DJ & trading with Miami to get Surtain the first day of the draft?

or

Having sex with ___________(any woman you'd want)?


:hmmm:

Of course this poll is the heterosexuals on the board...any homo's need not vote!

Coogs
04-04-2005, 02:46 PM
If Surtain is the guy, I would still go this route....
_____________________________________________________________
I still like the trade scenario with the Eagles I put up a couple of weeks ago. A trade up now for the Eagles would allow them to be in position on draft day to trade up into the top 10 if there is one player they think will get them over the top on SB Sunday. They have picks...

31 - 600 points
35 - 550 points
63 - 276 points
77 - 205 points
94 - 124 points

We have picks...

15... 1050 points

We could go from a low of picks 35, 77,and 94 (879 points) for our number 15 pick. To a high of 35, 63, and 77 (1031 points). There are several scenarios in between there including their 1st round pick. But if we make the phone call, Philly has to have a reason to trade, so points will probably be in their favor a little bit.

We could give up a 2nd then, and still address several positions on the first day of the draft.
_____________________________________________________________

jcroft
04-04-2005, 02:48 PM
Of course this poll is the heterosexuals on the board...any homo's need not vote!

Why wouldn't homosexuals be allowed to vote?

KChiefs1
04-04-2005, 02:49 PM
Why wouldn't homosexuals be allowed to vote?
Ok Jeff, I'll make an exception for you. :p

jcroft
04-04-2005, 02:50 PM
Ok Jeff, I'll make an exception for you. :p

Thanks, but you didn't really answer the question!

Wile_E_Coyote
04-04-2005, 02:56 PM
KC trading for a player with questionable knees or drafting a defensive player..gotta go with history

KChiefs1
04-04-2005, 03:00 PM
Thanks, but you didn't really answer the question!

Should I have said lesbians aren't allowed to vote? I had no idea homosexual men would want to have sex with women. I know I'm old but what is the common practice of homosexual men today Jeff? :hmmm:

jcroft
04-04-2005, 03:03 PM
Should I have said lesbians aren't allowed to vote? I had no idea homosexual men would want to have sex with women. I know I'm old but what is the common practice of homosexual men today Jeff? :hmmm:

"Homosexual," or your slang "homo," most definitely includes lesbians. If you want to be all-inclusive (gay, lesbian, bi, trans, etc.), then the preferred nomenclature is "queer." If you intended to specify gay men, then why not just say, "gay men?"

Of course, your best bet would have been to leave you little poll open to everyone, including straight women (of which we have many on the board), by not specifying that it had to be a women you were choosing to have sex with.

And for the record, I'm straight -- just not narrow.

BigChiefFan
04-04-2005, 04:10 PM
Surtain plus a quality first round player or a ROOKIE that's going to cost us our first two picks and we still have a hole at corner? Why was this question even posed? This is a no-brainer-SURTAIN.

eazyb81
04-04-2005, 05:44 PM
It is a no-brainer that our main weakness is a lack of a top-flight CB. Surtain is a perennial Pro Bowler in the prime of his career that excels in the same type of coverage that our defensive coordinator loves to run.....isn't it obvious that we need Surtain?

On a side note, why are so many people still talking about LB? I don't understand why so many Chiefs fans are gung-ho about drafting another young LB when we haven't even seen if the other young LBs we have can play yet (Fox and Mitchell-he hasn't played outside yet).

Tribal Warfare
04-04-2005, 05:51 PM
It is
On a side note, why are so many people still talking about LB? I don't understand why so many Chiefs fans are gung-ho about drafting another young LB when we haven't even seen if the other young LBs we have can play yet (Fox and Mitchell-he hasn't played outside yet).


Easy our young LBs suck! Keyron would've cracked the staring lineup , but didn't, and Mitchell is shitty as a LB in general

melbar
04-04-2005, 05:56 PM
So what if its Surtain and Pac Man vs D Johnson.

Getting Surtain and a defensive player at 15 is what this team needs.
Your leaving out All-Pro CB Law in your D Johnson scenario.

buddha
04-04-2005, 05:59 PM
I would take Johnson and move up to get him. He's the impact linebacker of this class, and those guys are tough to come by. I would love to have Surtain as well, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Johnson.

This does not mean we don't address our CB needs in a different way, however. That's an obvious step that will be taken no matter what.

Tribal Warfare
04-04-2005, 05:59 PM
Surtain plus a quality first round player or a ROOKIE that's going to cost us our first two picks and we still have a hole at corner? Why was this question even posed? This is a no-brainer-SURTAIN.


Shit! Give me a break this isn't a normal rookie he's often called the most NFL ready prospect in years, and Johnson would help in more ways than one

eazyb81
04-04-2005, 06:00 PM
Easy our young LBs suck! Keyron would've cracked the staring lineup , but didn't, and Mitchell is shitty as a LB in general

I don't think you can flatly say that our young LBs suck. Fox wasn't even given a shot because of his training camp injury, and he was a top 5 OLB prospect last year. Obviously Mitchell didn't set the world on fire as a MLB, but he didn't even play MLB until his senior year in college. I think he could utilize his skills much better at OLB and he should be given another shot before we just assume he is a bust and get rid of him.

LiL stumppy
04-04-2005, 06:00 PM
I would go after Williams.....pick up some other CB somewhere. Any are better than Bartee.

Thats not saying alot

eazyb81
04-04-2005, 06:03 PM
I would take Johnson and move up to get him. He's the impact linebacker of this class, and those guys are tough to come by. I would love to have Surtain as well, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Johnson.

This does not mean we don't address our CB needs in a different way, however. That's an obvious step that will be taken no matter what.

Why do we have to pick Surtain or DJ? Couldn't we easily have both? Granted, it would cost us down the line, but why couldn't we trade our 2nd this year for Surtain, and trade this year's 1st and next year's 1st to move up in the top 6 and draft him? I know people hate trading 1st rounders, but if he truly is the elite LB he is made out to be, it would be worth it in my opinion. Also, if everything goes according to plan we will have a very late 1st rounder next year, so it won't hurt us at all.

buddha
04-04-2005, 06:04 PM
I don't think you can flatly say that our young LBs suck. Fox wasn't even given a shot because of his training camp injury, and he was a top 5 OLB prospect last year. Obviously Mitchell didn't set the world on fire as a MLB, but he didn't even play MLB until his senior year in college. I think he could utilize his skills much better at OLB and he should be given another shot before we just assume he is a bust and get rid of him.
How many outside backers does that make? Fox is out there, Barber is out there, Mitchell "should" be out there, is Bell inside or outside, and what about Fujita?

You're either a player or your not. I saw enough from Mitchell last year to see that he doesn't have "it". He can improve, but he sure doesn't look like an answer at any position. Fox hasn't found the field on a team that had no linebackers last year...what does that tell you? Are the Chiefs "redshirting" him, and hoping for another year of eligibility?

DJ has the same kind of impact potential as did Derrick Thomas, even though they are different types of players.

eazyb81
04-04-2005, 06:23 PM
How many outside backers does that make? Fox is out there, Barber is out there, Mitchell "should" be out there, is Bell inside or outside, and what about Fujita?

You're either a player or your not. I saw enough from Mitchell last year to see that he doesn't have "it". He can improve, but he sure doesn't look like an answer at any position. Fox hasn't found the field on a team that had no linebackers last year...what does that tell you? Are the Chiefs "redshirting" him, and hoping for another year of eligibility?

DJ has the same kind of impact potential as did Derrick Thomas, even though they are different types of players.

If Mitchell was playing out of position, then it is no wonder why he hasn't displayed "it". The injury Fox suffered in training camp pretty much dropped him to the bottom of the totem pole from the start of the season; it didn't help that DV tries to avoid playing rookies if at all possible. Fox was a highly productive player in college that has the skills to play in this league. I am so sick of this team drafting players and then giving up on them a year or two later. We will never be a great team year in and year out until we develop the players that we draft.

Logical
04-04-2005, 06:48 PM
No matter what Surtain is proven in the NFL and DJ is not. Forgetting about the extreme doubt as to whether we could even get DJ I go with Surtain no doubt.

Saulbadguy
04-04-2005, 06:51 PM
Give: 2005 1st, 2006 1st (hopefully the 32nd..), 2005 2nd
Get: Miami's 2005 1st, Patrick Surtain

We could get Derrick Johnson and Surtain that way. Is it possible, or asking too much from either side?

(Has little business savvy outside Madden world)

eazyb81
04-04-2005, 06:55 PM
Give: 2005 1st, 2006 1st (hopefully the 32nd..), 2005 2nd
Get: Miami's 2005 1st, Patrick Surtain

We could get Derrick Johnson and Surtain that way. Is it possible, or asking too much from either side?

(Has little business savvy outside Madden world)

It seems reasonable, but I think Miami might want more then that for their #2 overall pick. I think it would be more realistic to trade this year's 2nd for Surtain, and then trade this year's 1st and next year's 1st to move up into the 4-7 area to get DJ. I think the earliest DJ could go is #6 to Tennessee. As long as we pick ahead of Minnesota at #7, I think we would be able to land him.

Tribal Warfare
04-04-2005, 06:56 PM
I don't think you can flatly say that our young LBs suck.


yes I can, Mitchell has no instincts, Fox couldn't even break starting lineup with his minor injury. yep, they suck

redshirt32
04-04-2005, 07:03 PM
If Johnson falls to the skins we might have a chance, if not and the chiefs really want the guy you go get him period.

eazyb81
04-04-2005, 07:06 PM
yes I can, Mitchell has no instincts, Fox couldn't even break starting lineup with his minor injury. yep, they suck

So Brian Waters sucks because he didn't start his 1st year? Larry Johnson sucks because he didn't start his 1st year? I guess we can give up on Junior Siavii, he didn't start a game this year. Oh yeah, we better remove Tony Richardson's Pro Bowl invites from his bio, he only started 2 games his first 4 seasons. Might as well cut Trent Green too, he didn't start a single game his first 5 seasons.

:rolleyes:

philfree
04-04-2005, 07:14 PM
yes I can, Mitchell has no instincts, Fox couldn't even break starting lineup with his minor injury. yep, they suck

At this point in his career Mitchell has had less of a chance the Dante Hall had before he broke out. Most folks around here were saying the same thing about him before he proved them and me wrong. I not saying Mitchell is or isn't gonna be a player I'm saying it's to early to tell. I hope he proves his doubters wrong but if he don't then that's just the way it is.


PhilFree :arrow:

keg in kc
04-04-2005, 07:16 PM
You guys think too small. I want to trade for Surtain, pick up Pryce, trade up to get DJ and then sign Law once he's cleared.

I don't ask for much.

philfree
04-04-2005, 07:20 PM
You guys think too small. I want to trade for Surtain, pick up Pryce, trade up to get DJ and then sign Law once he's cleared.

I don't ask for much.

Sounds good to me and the first move is to get Surtain on the roster. Let's do it!

PhilFree :arrow:

Tribal Warfare
04-04-2005, 07:24 PM
So Brian Waters sucks because he didn't start his 1st year? Larry Johnson sucks because he didn't start his 1st year? I guess we can give up on Junior Siavii, he didn't start a game this year. Oh yeah, we better remove Tony Richardson's Pro Bowl invites from his bio, he only started 2 games his first 4 seasons. Might as well cut Trent Green too, he didn't start a single game his first 5 seasons.





I always liked Green, and I'm a very very accurate talent evaluator. Johnson was a bargaining chip plain, and simple Waters was seen as a backup then to the surprise of the coaches realized he could become a starter. T-Rich was drafted to be Kimbles backup. Look at the grand sceme of Petersons failures. So your saying your a:homer: and haven't come to realize the LBs excluding Fuijta and Bell are sub par

keg in kc
04-04-2005, 07:26 PM
T-Rich was drafted to be Kimbles backup.T-Rich was an undrafted free agent originally signed by the Cowboys.

Tribal Warfare
04-04-2005, 07:28 PM
T-Rich was an undrafted free agent originally signed by the Cowboys.

I apologize it's been so damn long hell I was in my my mid-teens when this occured

CoMoChief
04-04-2005, 07:33 PM
Id say keep our 2nd rounder and sign Ty Law, the guy will be healthy by the seasons first game. Draft Merriman or Demarcus Ware for our 15th pick and then 2nd round draft Matt Jones if hes still there. That man is gonna be a stud. Theres no one better in the NFL at developing WRs than Al Saunders.

Logical
04-04-2005, 08:04 PM
...Theres no one better in the NFL at developing WRs than Al Saunders.You might be right but if that is true why do we need another one. Between Bo, Samie and Richard Smith why do we need some else. I am not completely serious, but it is a question.

milkman
04-04-2005, 08:25 PM
With all the defensive holes we need to address, I just couldn't get behind any plan to move up in the draft.

I agree with the belief that the secondary is hamstrung to a great extent by the new emphasis placed on the contact rule, and I believe the foundation of any great D is a physical, dominating front 7.

But the reality is that you still need corners that can maintain coverage long enough to allow the front 7 to apply pressure.
And you still need a corner that can present some semblence of a challenge to Randy Moss.

Trade the 2nd to Miami for Surtain, and trade down in the first to acquire another 2nd.
Take the best available CB and LB in the first 2 rounds, after the tradedown.

With the right trade partner, Marlin Jackson and Cory Webster might be available, and Daryl Blackstock and Kevin Burnett might be there.

I'm officially a Jackson and Blockstock pimp.

milkman
04-04-2005, 08:27 PM
You might be right but if that is true why do we need another one. Between Bo, Samie and Richard Smith why do we need some else. I am not completely serious, but it is a question.

He might be right, but I have serious doubts.

Saunders was our WR coach through most of the 90s, and I sure as hell don't remember any great WRs in those years.

philfree
04-04-2005, 08:58 PM
He might be right, but I have serious doubts.

Saunders was our WR coach through most of the 90s, and I sure as hell don't remember any great WRs in those years.


He took camp fodder and made them just below average so that's saying something. Isn't it? :)

Id say keep our 2nd rounder and sign Ty Law, the guy will be healthy by the seasons first game. Draft Merriman or Demarcus Ware for our 15th pick and then 2nd round draft Matt Jones if hes still there. That man is gonna be a stud.

If go through the draft without acquiring a CB via trade or draft counting on Law that's asking for it. Expecting a rookie or two to make a bigger difference then a pro bowl CB is not good thinking IMO. IMO we aren't in just a one year window but we do have a window and to count on draft picks to make the difference is not smart.


PhilFree:arrow:

BigChiefFan
04-04-2005, 09:24 PM
Shit! Give me a break this isn't a normal rookie he's often called the most NFL ready prospect in years, and Johnson would help in more ways than one
He's still a rookie, plus like I said earlier, that still leaves a hole at CB that won't be addressed until late in the third round with this scenario. I call 'em like I see 'em.

The Bad Guy
04-04-2005, 09:30 PM
When you have the worst defense in the NFL and you can acquire an already top 3 talent at a position that has been a pain in the ass to fill since Hasty left, then you do it without question.

Derrick Johnson may be a stud prospect, but there is no such thing as can't miss.

KChiefs1
04-04-2005, 10:00 PM
Trade the 2nd to Miami for Surtain, and trade down in the first to acquire another 2nd.

Philly is dying to move up in the first round...could see a scenario with Philly's 31st & 35th picks somehow. :hmmm:

milkman
04-04-2005, 10:03 PM
Philly is dying to move up in the first round...could see a scenario with Philly's 31st & 35th picks somehow. :hmmm:

That's a draft day trade scenario I have been talking about for 2 or more weeks now.

Marlin Jackson at 31 and Blackstock at 35.

philfree
04-04-2005, 10:21 PM
That's a draft day trade scenario I have been talking about for 2 or more weeks now.

Marlin Jackson at 31 and Blackstock at 35.


That would be great but I'd rather get Surtain on board and then if we can do that deal on day one of the draft....then like I said that would be great.

PhilFree :arrow:

milkman
04-04-2005, 10:28 PM
That would be great but I'd rather get Surtain on board and then if we can do that deal on day one of the draft....then like I said that would be great.

PhilFree :arrow:

I'm thinking the deal for Surtain gets done a day or two before the draft, and a 1st round tradedown happens while we're on the clock at 15.

philfree
04-04-2005, 10:50 PM
I'm thinking the deal for Surtain gets done a day or two before the draft, and a 1st round tradedown happens while we're on the clock at 15.
Yeah prolly but I hope we don't wait till after the draft starts. To many things could happen messing it up. With Miami picking 2nd and needing/wanting more picks there's all kinds of scenarios that could change the lay of the land.

PhilFree:arrow:

Tribal Warfare
04-04-2005, 10:55 PM
I don't like the idea of trading down, because then you have to play the waiting game which is not what this team needs again that philosophy doesn't work unless you have an knack of getting the right players in the system like Jimmy Johnson which Carl doesn't have. I say wait after the draft then deal with the surtain situation ,and/ or till the June 1st cuts
then pick-up Surtain , and maybe somone else

melbar
04-04-2005, 11:04 PM
According to the draft trade value calculators #9 could be had for our 4th a 5th and a 6th.Derrick may fall that far, Washington only has 5 picks, and they are looking at a CB. I think its a real possibility to get him and keep the 2nd where we could get one of the 7 highly rated CB's to Nickle and learn from Law. HOw bout,
Bell
Johnson
Fujita
-
Law
Warfield (for 12 games anyway)
Justin Miller/Brandon Browner
Knight
Wesley/Woods
I'd be elated to see this D.

B_Ambuehl
04-04-2005, 11:15 PM
Johnson is over-rated IMO. A solid player, yes, but no Lavar Arrington coming out of college. No sense wasting draft picks in a draft in which we're already in the hole when there are other quality players that can be obtained.

Another thing I've been thinking that I haven't heard anyone mention, and that I would LOVE to be proven wrong on, is that the Chiefs style of defense is becoming largely outdated and no matter who you have playing, the system still needs to be reworked. And defense is all about attitude...when your players don't have confidence in themselves and in your system then it doesn't matter who you have out on the football field it's not gonna work very well. Chiefs need to work on player development and cohesiveness as a unit.

mcan
04-05-2005, 12:06 AM
Johnson is over-rated IMO. A solid player, yes, but no Lavar Arrington coming out of college. No sense wasting draft picks in a draft in which we're already in the hole when there are other quality players that can be obtained.

Another thing I've been thinking that I haven't heard anyone mention, and that I would LOVE to be proven wrong on, is that the Chiefs style of defense is becoming largely outdated and no matter who you have playing, the system still needs to be reworked. And defense is all about attitude...when your players don't have confidence in themselves and in your system then it doesn't matter who you have out on the football field it's not gonna work very well. Chiefs need to work on player development and cohesiveness as a unit.


Welcome to the board Ambuehl. I disagree with your post though. I think that Gun's defensive style is aggressive, and that will NEVER be outdated. His philosophy. Stop the run first, and get to the quarterback second. He uses the metaphor of the "heart" and "soul" of the offense being the runner and the quarterback, and if you take those two things, they can't move the ball. I just think we need better linebackers in order to do both of those things. That's why I voted for Johnson. We get an Ashley Ambrose or Ty Law to start opposite Warfield without giving up our second rounder. But tell me how we're going to get a player like Johnson on the free agent market... Not gonna happen.

wasgreat58
04-05-2005, 01:37 AM
how do i upload a custom avatar from my computer? thnx

the Talking Can
04-05-2005, 01:59 AM
yeah, let's not acquire a probowl CB....

milkman
04-05-2005, 08:04 PM
Johnson is over-rated IMO. A solid player, yes, but no Lavar Arrington coming out of college. No sense wasting draft picks in a draft in which we're already in the hole when there are other quality players that can be obtained.

Another thing I've been thinking that I haven't heard anyone mention, and that I would LOVE to be proven wrong on, is that the Chiefs style of defense is becoming largely outdated and no matter who you have playing, the system still needs to be reworked. And defense is all about attitude...when your players don't have confidence in themselves and in your system then it doesn't matter who you have out on the football field it's not gonna work very well. Chiefs need to work on player development and cohesiveness as a unit.

I think there is some merit to your post.

A few of us have talked about the CB position being devalued.

The overall end result of that will be teams relying on zones more and more, I believe.

But I still think you need solid corners to make zones work.

Logical
04-05-2005, 08:08 PM
I don't like the idea of trading down, because then you have to play the waiting game which is not what this team needs again that philosophy doesn't work unless you have an knack of getting the right players in the system like Jimmy Johnson which Carl doesn't have. I say wait after the draft then deal with the surtain situation ,and/ or till the June 1st cuts
then pick-up Surtain , and maybe somone else

Miami would be freakin insane to give him up after the draft. They have no clue where in the draft next years draft pick would be and Surtain is still a Pro Bowl CB. If they do not get something like a 2nd in this years draft they should not trade him. Maybe Miami sweetens the deal by giving us a 4th or 5th with Surtain for the 2nd, I can see that being reasonable.

Logical
04-05-2005, 08:11 PM
According to the draft trade value calculators #9 could be had for our 4th a 5th and a 6th.Derrick may fall that far, Washington only has 5 picks, and they are looking at a CB. I think its a real possibility to get him and keep the 2nd where we could get one of the 7 highly rated CB's to Nickle and learn from Law. HOw bout,
Bell
Johnson
Fujita
-
Law
Warfield (for 12 games anyway)
Justin Miller/Brandon Browner
Knight
Wesley/Woods
I'd be elated to see this D.


Can I just say bleeeeech, yuck, and I certainly hope not. That is about as high risk a lineup as week could put on the field injury recovery wise.

Logical
04-05-2005, 08:14 PM
Johnson is over-rated IMO. A solid player, yes, but no Lavar Arrington coming out of college. No sense wasting draft picks in a draft in which we're already in the hole when there are other quality players that can be obtained.

Another thing I've been thinking that I haven't heard anyone mention, and that I would LOVE to be proven wrong on, is that the Chiefs style of defense is becoming largely outdated and no matter who you have playing, the system still needs to be reworked. And defense is all about attitude...when your players don't have confidence in themselves and in your system then it doesn't matter who you have out on the football field it's not gonna work very well. Chiefs need to work on player development and cohesiveness as a unit.A thoughtful first post, nice. I am not sure I know what sort of defense the Chiefs were trying to field last year given how bad the player were in implementing it. If it was Gun's old Falcon then I agree with you, but I really do not believe it was, wrong personel on the field to believe Gun was even attempting that defense.

Logical
04-05-2005, 08:17 PM
50 for Surtain to 23 for DJ that is a much bigger landslide than I expected. Very pleasing, now if only Carl thought it was noteworthy. LOL

the Talking Can
04-05-2005, 08:20 PM
50 for Surtain to 23 for DJ that is a much bigger landslide than I expected. Very pleasing, now if only Carl thought it was noteworthy. LOL

Gaz' Jedi mind tricks have failed.

We are not going to pass on a probowl CB.

Tribal Warfare
04-05-2005, 09:49 PM
Miami would be freakin insane to give him up after the draft. They have no clue where in the draft next years draft pick would be and Surtain is still a Pro Bowl CB. If they do not get something like a 2nd in this years draft they should not trade him. Maybe Miami sweetens the deal by giving us a 4th or 5th with Surtain for the 2nd, I can see that being reasonable.

If everything fails I would wait after the draft, and then see how Miami reacts because they have a disgruntled player on their hand, and june 1st cuts will coming around also if surtain isn't available get another CB. Derrick Johnson can help in more ways than besides pass defense.

Tribal Warfare
04-05-2005, 10:12 PM
If everything fails I would wait after the draft, and then see how Miami reacts because they have a disgruntled player on their hand, and june 1st cuts will coming around also if surtain isn't available get another CB. Derrick Johnson can help in more ways plain and simple.

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 08:34 AM
Johnson is over-rated IMO. A solid player, yes, but no Lavar Arrington coming out of college. No sense wasting draft picks in a draft in which we're already in the hole when there are other quality players that can be obtained.

Another thing I've been thinking that I haven't heard anyone mention, and that I would LOVE to be proven wrong on, is that the Chiefs style of defense is becoming largely outdated and no matter who you have playing, the system still needs to be reworked. And defense is all about attitude...when your players don't have confidence in themselves and in your system then it doesn't matter who you have out on the football field it's not gonna work very well. Chiefs need to work on player development and cohesiveness as a unit.

Is this Bill Maas? :thumb:

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 08:35 AM
If everything fails I would wait after the draft, and then see how Miami reacts because they have a disgruntled player on their hand, and june 1st cuts will coming around also if surtain isn't available get another CB. Derrick Johnson can help in more ways than besides pass defense.

Patrick Surtain is purportedly an EXCELLENT run defender.