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DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:09 PM
In thier hayday which system did you run? Or did you run both? When did you make the switch to VHS/DVD? I remember our first was a VCR but my (dumba$$) step-dad thought Beta was the wave of the future. when I got into the military I bought a VHS and held on to that till last christmas when I got a DVD/VHS combo

DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:10 PM
sh!t it was supposed to be a poll :shrug:

Count Zarth
04-04-2005, 11:11 PM
Dumbass!

VHS

Simplex3
04-04-2005, 11:12 PM
.

Simplex3
04-04-2005, 11:12 PM
There's your poll

:)

DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:18 PM
There's your poll

:)


B...smithers is HOTTT

alanm
04-04-2005, 11:19 PM
Hell I was never home enough to watch TV much back in the 80's so I didn't buy my 1st VCR untill 1988. Which BTW I still have. Stuck somewhere in a closet in the original box. VCR's have become the 8 track tape of the present. But untill DVD recorders come down in price, by that I mean under $100. And they will. I'll stay recording programs on VCR. I'm frugal as all hell (Cheap) and I won't spring for a TIVO. VCR does the same thing and it's paid for. :thumb:

DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:23 PM
Hell I was never home enough to watch TV much back in the 80's so I didn't buy my 1st VCR untill 1988. Which BTW I still have. Stuck somewhere in a closet in the original box. VCR's have become the 8 track tape of the present. But untill DVD recorders come down in price, by that I mean under $100. And they will. I'll stay recording programs on VCR. I'm frugal as all hell (Cheap) and I won't spring for a TIVO. VCR does the same thing and it's paid for. :thumb:

Yeah TiVo sucks cause of the fee associated with it...its funny how people get sucked into these never ending bills when you could just buy a vcr or dvd recorder

Joe Seahawk
04-04-2005, 11:23 PM
I went with VHS until I got my laser disc player.. :rolleyes:

Can't win em all..

DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:27 PM
I went with VHS until I got my laser disc player.. :rolleyes:

Can't win em all..

Oh man I forgot about those things...those discs were HUGE!...I had a friend that had one and had like all 10 movies ever made for em

alanm
04-04-2005, 11:28 PM
I went with VHS until I got my laser disc player.. :rolleyes:

Can't win em all..
I take that back. Laser disk players are the 8 track tape machines of the video world. ROFL

Phobia
04-04-2005, 11:29 PM
Yeah TiVo sucks cause of the fee associated with it...its funny how people get sucked into these never ending bills when you could just buy a vcr or dvd recorder

It's not the same thing. It isn't even close. The fee is optional. I paid the lifetime fee when it was $199 and I still have it on a Series II. That was probably 6 years ago. So instead of $12-14 a month, TiVo only got that $199 and it has been money well spent.

ENDelt260
04-04-2005, 11:33 PM
It's not the same thing. It isn't even close. The fee is optional. I paid the lifetime fee when it was $199 and I still have it on a Series II. That was probably 6 years ago. So instead of $12-14 a month, TiVo only got that $199 and it has been money well spent.
What he said.

Anyone who thinks a VCR and a TiVo are the same thing obviously doesn't know anything about TiVo.

Logical
04-04-2005, 11:34 PM
VHS, just lucky in that choice. I have had a DVD player so long I don't remember when I got my first one.

DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:37 PM
It's not the same thing. It isn't even close. The fee is optional. I paid the lifetime fee when it was $199 and I still have it on a Series II. That was probably 6 years ago. So instead of $12-14 a month, TiVo only got that $199 and it has been money well spent.

Is that still an option tho?

alanm
04-04-2005, 11:37 PM
It's not the same thing. It isn't even close. The fee is optional. I paid the lifetime fee when it was $199 and I still have it on a Series II. That was probably 6 years ago. So instead of $12-14 a month, TiVo only got that $199 and it has been money well spent.
I'd like to get one but I'm holding out on the price drop of DVD recorders. A lot of my Husker football game tapes are on VHS tapes as well as Chief games. I have all Husker games (Wins) from 1988 to present that were on TV. As well as a lot of Chiefs games from the same time. With Tivo I could upload games to my computer and then burn to a DVD disk. But when I finally buy a DVD Recorder I can just copy from my VHS tapes to DVD's. But like I said I'm going to wait for the price of DVD recorders to drop some more.

Joe Seahawk
04-04-2005, 11:42 PM
Oh man I forgot about those things...those discs were HUGE!...I had a friend that had one and had like all 10 movies ever made for em

I still have it.. I have some pretty good movies too. I have the directors cut of Goodfellas, all four discs worth...

ROFL

It's bad enough flipping it once, but to have to flip it twice and change discs once is just plain wacky.. I'll tell you what though, the picture blew away the picture I could get on my $450.00 Hi- Fi VCR .. $450.00!! Damn! remember how expensive those were when they first came out? :shake:

Phobia
04-04-2005, 11:45 PM
Is that still an option tho?

Yeah - I think it's $299 now, though. I don't think it's an option on DirectTiVo.

DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:50 PM
I still have it.. I have some pretty good movies too. I have the directors cut of Goodfellas, all four discs worth...

ROFL

It's bad enough flipping it once, but to have to flip it twice and change discs once is just plain wacky.. I'll tell you what though, the picture blew away the picture I could get on my $450.00 Hi- Fi VCR .. $450.00!! Damn! remember how expensive those were when they first came out? :shake:

:LOL: I bought my first VCR for $150....I was stiil to young to buy the Disc player when they came out...how much did those go for?

DenverChief
04-04-2005, 11:55 PM
Yeah - I think it's $299 now, though. I don't think it's an option on DirectTiVo.

aren't you a directtvivo?

Phobia
04-04-2005, 11:57 PM
No. Standalone.

Joe Seahawk
04-04-2005, 11:58 PM
:LOL: I bought my first VCR for $150....I was stiil to young to buy the Disc player when they came out...how much did those go for?
I think they were just slightly more than a hi-fi VCR around $500.00..Damn!



There's a legendary video store not too far from where I lived at the time (Scarecrow Video) and they had probably the largest rental selection of laser discs in the country..That was their niche.. So I was always able to rent the new releases etc.. in most cases easier than VHS cause those would all be rented out.. :)

DenverChief
04-05-2005, 12:21 AM
I think they were just slightly more than a hi-fi VCR around $500.00..Damn!



There's a legendary video store not too far from where I lived at the time (Scarecrow Video) and they had probably the largest rental selection of laser discs in the country..That was their niche.. So I was always able to rent the new releases etc.. in most cases easier than VHS cause those would all be rented out.. :)

heh well thats cool...I can't beleive how fast we have moved away from VHS...I mena you go to blockbuster and you can't even get VHS for some movies....i wonder when Disc Camcorders will be the norm...

DenverChief
04-05-2005, 12:22 AM
No. Standalone.


ahh ok cause I know if you have Dish and the DVR you gotta pay a monthly fee unless you have the $80 programming package....

Simplex3
04-05-2005, 05:26 AM
I went with VHS until I got my laser disc player.. :rolleyes:

Can't win em all..
I still have a Pioneer Laser Disc on a shelf in my basement. I think I have Predator, Jerry McGwyer (or however the hell you spell that), The Howling, and some other turd.

Ah, the days of stopping half-way through the movie to turn over that gigantic disc...

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 05:52 AM
We've still got the giant laser disc players at school because we have quite a bit of educational material on that media. They are actually pretty cool, in that you can use a barcode scanner to scan codes from a book and jump to the desired content.

The media distributors at the time decided the VHS vs. Beta issue for the consumer.

Bob Dole's first 4-head hi-fi VCR (VHS) cost right at $400.

jjjayb
04-05-2005, 06:06 AM
Beta. I lived in Panama at the time. Beta was king there. All of the video stores had beta tapes for rent. Nobody had VHS. When we got back to the states it was just the opposite.

Skip Towne
04-05-2005, 06:52 AM
Back when VCR's first came out Beta and VHS were equally popular and I didn't know which one to buy. I called a friend who owned a cable TV company for advice. He said all the TV stations were using VHS so that's what I bought. $600 with a remote control that had a wire that ran across the floor from you to the TV.

Dartgod
04-05-2005, 06:55 AM
I spent the whole VHS/BETA era looking for a reel-to-reel player for my car. :shrug:

Skip Towne
04-05-2005, 06:56 AM
I'd like to get one but I'm holding out on the price drop of DVD recorders. A lot of my Husker football game tapes are on VHS tapes as well as Chief games. I have all Husker games (Wins) from 1988 to present that were on TV. As well as a lot of Chiefs games from the same time. With Tivo I could upload games to my computer and then burn to a DVD disk. But when I finally buy a DVD Recorder I can just copy from my VHS tapes to DVD's. But like I said I'm going to wait for the price of DVD recorders to drop some more.
I don't have one but I didn't think DVD players were very expensive. A couple of the companies I install Directv for will give you one when you buy your Directv equipment from them.

Fried Meat Ball!
04-05-2005, 07:14 AM
We (my family) had VHS, but in reality BETA was way better. Everything about BETAMAX was better than VHS, but JVC put more money into shoving the format down consumers' throats.

Being somewhat of a videophile, I own a VHS, BETA, DVD, and Laserdisk player, as well as a 16mm film projector... I have about 45 films on Laser, 850+ DVDs, and 400 or so VHS... only about 30 BETAs.

Lzen
04-05-2005, 08:17 AM
....i wonder when Disc Camcorders will be the norm...

If you mean DVD camcorders, I would say not until they upgrade the quality and then bring down the price a lot. When I was looking at camcorders last year, I found the overwhelming sentiment about DVD camcorders was the quality wasn't as good as minidv.

siberian khatru
04-05-2005, 08:25 AM
My dad bought a Betamax around 1981. As usual, he did lots of research and concluded that the Beta format had superior picture and sound quality. BOING!

So I have Games 6 and 7 of the 1985 World Series on tape -- on Beta. With no Betamax in sight. Finally got a VHS around 1987, IIRC.

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 09:44 AM
We (my family) had VHS, but in reality BETA was way better. Everything about BETAMAX was better than VHS...

Based on what? Sony corporate propaganda?

|Zach|
04-05-2005, 09:48 AM
http://www.davidfawcett.co.uk/Tom%20thinking%20up%20his%20next%20insult.jpg

Rain Man
04-05-2005, 09:53 AM
I still have the TV and VCR (VHS) that I bought in 1986, right after I graduated from college. I don't use them much, but I've got them.

I'm a total Luddite in practice. I'm not a techno junkie at all.

HemiEd
04-05-2005, 10:43 AM
I was the Service Manager for a Motorola/Quasar Distributor 75-82 and this was a very big issue. The Beta did have better resolution, however the VHS format was first to adopt a 2 hour capability, (after the monster Quasar "Great Time Machine" that had a huge tape) Beta was one hour. Tapes sold for $20 and one hour was too short. The Beta later came out with a two hour, called Beta II IIRC. I believe the Beta was better because the tape ran through at a higher speed thus spreading the data over more tape. When VHS achieved 4 hour capability most of the Consumer products companies adopted the format and killed the Beta. When the price dropped from $995 to $799 they sold fast and then $499 faster than they could be made.
I think we have five VHS units and hardly ever use them.

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 11:03 AM
I was the Service Manager for a Motorola/Quasar Distributor 75-82 and this was a very big issue. The Beta did have better resolution, however the VHS format was first to adopt a 2 hour capability, (after the monster Quasar "Great Time Machine" that had a huge tape) Beta was one hour. Tapes sold for $20 and one hour was too short. The Beta later came out with a two hour, called Beta II IIRC. I believe the Beta was better because the tape ran through at a higher speed thus spreading the data over more tape. When VHS achieved 4 hour capability most of the Consumer products companies adopted the format and killed the Beta. When the price dropped from $995 to $799 they sold fast and then $499 faster than they could be made.
I think we have five VHS units and hardly ever use them.

Bob Dole always gets a chuckle out of the "better resolution" and "superior picture" comments. Beta has 260 lines horizontal as opposed to VHS's 250 lines. Not all that much difference...

The original Beta spec also only allowed for a single audio track, and when they added stereo sound, it had to be squeezed into the original designated space.

You want to talk truly superior? Bob Dole has been sorting through old 3/4 U-matic footage the past couple of weeks. Clean.

Rain Man
04-05-2005, 11:09 AM
This is highly valuable trivia. I'm going to store this in a particularly well-shielded part of my brain.

HemiEd
04-05-2005, 11:10 AM
You want to talk truly superior? Bob Dole has been sorting through old 3/4 U-matic footage the past couple of weeks. Clean.

U-matic? Not familiar with that one. Do you remember the "Great Time Machine?" It weighed about as much as a kitchen stove and had huge tapes.

StcChief
04-05-2005, 11:13 AM
VHS. even though Beta had a better pic.

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 11:14 AM
U-matic? Not familiar with that one. Do you remember the "Great Time Machine?" It weighed about as much as a kitchen stove and had huge tapes.

U-matic was used primarily in production environments as things moved away from 16mm. The university had apparently gone with the U-matic before the VX format came out, so Bob Dole doesn't have the pleasure of access to any Great Time Machines...

We've been disposing of some of our old equipment. Probably should have donated some of it to the Smithsonian.

HemiEd
04-05-2005, 11:26 AM
This is highly valuable trivia. I'm going to store this in a particularly well-shielded part of my brain.

ROFL ROFL





U-matic was used primarily in production environments as things moved away from 16mm. The university had apparently gone with the U-matic before the VX format came out, so Bob Dole doesn't have the pleasure of access to any Great Time Machines...

We've been disposing of some of our old equipment. Probably should have donated some of it to the Smithsonian.

You sound like you could answer a question that I have wondered about for a long time.
Did the 4 track tape player that I had in the mid sixties actually sound better than the 8 tracks that I had later? Or was it because stereo was brand new to cars that the four track sounded so incredible?

Fried Meat Ball!
04-05-2005, 11:37 AM
Based on what? Sony corporate propaganda?

More horizontal lines of resolution and at the time had better sound reproduction. Video quality is better with BetaMax... VHS offers a maximum resolution of 250 horizontal lines. BetaMax offered 260. The head to tape speed is 5.832m/s compared to 4.86m/s for VHS which allows for greater carrier deviation and so increased resolution. SuperVHS (and who has SVHS besides me?), which was offered to counter complaints of poor image quality offers 425, but never took off.

Unlike VHS, BetaMax records an additional pilot colour burst onto tape which results in more accurate colour reproduction.

In the early 1980s, BetaMax was already using Hi-Fi sound and indexing, among other things we take for granted on VHS recorders now. To improve the sound quality of the format Sony developed Beta Hi-fi. This recorded Hi-Fi quality sound as FM audio tracks by means of separate audio heads mounted on the video drum. The audio signals are modulated on to two carriers, one at 1.44MHz and the other at 2.10MHz. The deviation is 500KHz in contrast to 150kHz for the rival VHS format. The tracks are laid down so as to straddle the gaps in between the video tracks. The azimuth off-set is 30 degrees.

Here's just one site that offers this information (much of it just copied and pasted since I'm at work and looked for the easy way out, instead of writing all this technical stuff myself...)

http://www.palsite.com/format.html



In short, pretty much EVERYONE agrees Beta was the better format. The only complaint against Beta was only an hour record time, which they fixed (a little too late) to five hours later on. The biggest reason VHS won was simply because they were cheaper, and the mass populace didn't give a shit about resolution or audio reproduction.

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 11:59 AM
More horizontal lines of resolution and at the time had better sound reproduction. Video quality is better with BetaMax... VHS offers a maximum resolution of 250 horizontal lines. BetaMax offered 260. The head to tape speed is 5.832m/s compared to 4.86m/s for VHS which allows for greater carrier deviation and so increased resolution. SuperVHS (and who has SVHS besides me?), which was offered to counter complaints of poor image quality offers 425, but never took off...

Bob Dole isn't disputing that Beta had better technical specs.

Bob Dole chuckles when people proclaim the "clear superiority" of Beta, when there's really not a whole lot of difference. Certainly nowhere near the difference between VHS and DVD, but that's frequently how it's presented. (Oh...the good old days.)

Who has S-VHS?

http://www.mobog.com/pics/xz139e1p.jpg

HemiEd
04-05-2005, 12:01 PM
[QUOTE=Fire Me Boy!] The head to tape speed is 5.832m/s compared to 4.86m/s for VHS which allows for greater carrier deviation and so increased resolution.
In short, pretty much EVERYONE agrees Beta was the better format. The only complaint against Beta was only an hour record time, which they fixed (a little too late) to five hours later on. QUOTE]


You made my points better than I did! IIRC Sony actually developed and sold the VHS format to Matshushita?

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 12:06 PM
You sound like you could answer a question that I have wondered about for a long time.
Did the 4 track tape player that I had in the mid sixties actually sound better than the 8 tracks that I had later? Or was it because stereo was brand new to cars that the four track sounded so incredible?

Bob Dole was of the understanding that 4-track and 8-track were the same basic technology...

ENDelt260
04-05-2005, 12:09 PM
Wow, I've never even heard of a 4-track. You fuggers are old.

Rain Man
04-05-2005, 12:10 PM
A 4-track? What's that?

Fried Meat Ball!
04-05-2005, 12:11 PM
Who has S-VHS?
I do... love it, too. I don't have TiVo so I still have to tape my Chiefs games... I put them on SVHS and they look a LOT better than my VHS tapes did.

HemiEd
04-05-2005, 12:17 PM
Wow, I've never even heard of a 4-track. You fuggers are old.


A 4-track? What's that?


I had a Craig 4 track in 1966. The format did not last very long, the tapes were huge. Lear came out with the 8 track that would play continuously and the tapes were smaller. The only tape I had was "Meet the Monkees." Never did find any more, needed money so I sold it. ROFL

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 12:44 PM
If anyone needs any 16mm film repaired or reconditioned, Bob Dole can help ya out. lol

keg in kc
04-05-2005, 02:44 PM
I work on beta now, the studio doesn't have digital capability yet. Next year maybe, when we might upgrade much or all of our soft- and hardware. I do have one of the the aforementioned U-matic decks at my disposal, however. Lucky me. ROFL

Bob Dole
04-05-2005, 02:49 PM
I work on beta now, the studio doesn't have digital capability yet. Next year maybe, when we might upgrade much or all of our soft- and hardware. I do have one of the the aforementioned U-matic decks at my disposal, however. Lucky me. ROFL

We're in the process of putting together an RFP to completely rework our studio. Fun stuff.

buddha
04-05-2005, 02:49 PM
Beta was the superior technology, but VHS gained wider spread acceptance quicker. Props to them for figuring out how to proliferate an inferior product and become the industry standard for a decade. The same war is about to be waged for DVD dominance. There is blue ray and super DVD. My guess is that Sony wins the next round!