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Gravedigger
04-05-2005, 11:33 AM
Chiefs are busy today.

Chiefs | Hall Likely to Join DE Rotation - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:28:37 -0700

Kansas City Chiefs team president Carl Peterson said the team is quite pleased to add DE Carlos Hall, who was landed via trade with the Tennessee Titans. He said Hall should become an important part of their rotation at defensive end.

Chiefs | Hall Acquired Via Trade with Titans - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:27:34 -0700

The Kansas City Chiefs have traded an undisclosed 2005 NFL Draft choice to the Tennessee Titans for DE Carlos Hall, who was a restricted free agent.

Now which draft choice is it?

Brock
04-05-2005, 11:34 AM
:thumb:

Saulbadguy
04-05-2005, 11:34 AM
Hmm..the end of the Eric Hicks era?

donkhater
04-05-2005, 11:35 AM
I like this move. Hall is a good player from what I've seen of him.

ChiefsCountry
04-05-2005, 11:35 AM
Hmm..the end of the Eric Hicks era?

Hope so, but I bet they will bring Hall in to compete with Jared Allen.

Mark M
04-05-2005, 11:36 AM
Looks like Carl is thinning out the busts he would inevitably draft ...

MM
~~;)

shaneo69
04-05-2005, 11:36 AM
I heard they gave up a 2nd rounder for him.

Mark M
04-05-2005, 11:37 AM
I heard they gave up a 2nd rounder for him.

You did not just do that ...

MM
~~ROFL

ChiefsCountry
04-05-2005, 11:37 AM
I heard they gave up a 2nd rounder for him.

I know that is not true, Carl wouldn't give a 2nd rounder up for a stud Pro Bowler.

ct
04-05-2005, 11:38 AM
conditional 7th or 6th if he meets certain criteria, that's my guess.

Stinger
04-05-2005, 11:38 AM
I like this move. Hall is a good player from what I've seen of him.

Hall Stats ....

ct
04-05-2005, 11:38 AM
I heard they gave up a 2nd rounder for him.

:thumb:
rep

Mark M
04-05-2005, 11:41 AM
Hall Stats ....

The guy's defensed more passes than Bartee ...

MM
~~:)

Gravedigger
04-05-2005, 11:41 AM
Yeah I remember that two weeks ago when we were first looking into Hall we were talking about a 6th or a 7th to get him so that's what I would assume to be it.

Saulbadguy
04-05-2005, 11:42 AM
Looks like he had a solid rookie year, and then disappeared. Eh. Hopefully we didn't sign him to a fat contract.

ct
04-05-2005, 11:45 AM
I seem to recall that his rookie year he filled in when Kearse got hurt at LDE, and played well. Then when Kearse returned he moved to RDE as a starter, and hasn't lived up to that performance. Perhaps LDE is a better fit for him, and that's all there is to the drop-off?

Are ya feelin me?

alpha_omega
04-05-2005, 11:45 AM
I like it!

philfree
04-05-2005, 11:48 AM
Although DV said he know nothing about the agreement on a contract with Surtain I think we have one and that's why are signing these players. We know how much money we have to work with which allows us to sign these guys.

PhilFree :arrow:

Frankie
04-05-2005, 11:48 AM
Gun's input in this? :shrug:

bkkcoh
04-05-2005, 11:50 AM
The guy's defensed more passes than Bartee ...

MM
~~:)

Doesn't almost anyone on this board fall into that category????? :hmmm:

:clap: :thumb: :shake:

Mark M
04-05-2005, 11:59 AM
I seem to recall that his rookie year he filled in when Kearse got hurt at LDE, and played well. Then when Kearse returned he moved to RDE as a starter, and hasn't lived up to that performance. Perhaps LDE is a better fit for him, and that's all there is to the drop-off?

Are ya feelin me?

I agree that LDE is where he is better suited.

This is good not because he's the difference between KC making a Super Bowl or not, but because Hicks will have some competition.

IMHO, that's what I like most about all of the moves we've made so far this offseason -- with the exception of Bell, we're bringing in guys to challenge the incumbents, thus lighting a fire under some butts. Hell, even Mitchell may up his game.

MM
~~:thumb:

blackhawk
04-05-2005, 11:59 AM
Chiefs | Hall Acquired Via Trade with Titans - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:27:34 -0700

The Kansas City Chiefs have traded an undisclosed 2005 NFL Draft choice to the Tennessee Titans for DE Carlos Hall, who was a restricted free agent.

Mark M
04-05-2005, 11:59 AM
Doesn't almost anyone on this board fall into that category????? :hmmm:

:clap: :thumb: :shake:

My mom falls into that category ...

MM
~~:sulk:

Coach
04-05-2005, 12:03 PM
Here is the Scouts Inc report on Carlos Hall. Remember Gun was in Tenn, so he must have seen something he liked.



2004 Scouting Report - Football Scouts Inc.
Name: Carlos Hall
Position: Defensive End
Grade: 71 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Hall is somewhat undersized, but he gets by on speed and quickness. He is at his best in space. He will beat a lot of offensive tackles with his first step. He chases down a lot of backside plays with good speed and a great motor. He shows good body control for a young player. He plays with a lot of aggressiveness and he always seems to be giving a great effort. He has good diagnostic skills  particularly for such a young player  and he does a fine job of finding the ball when he turns the corner as a pass rusher or in pursuit of the run. However, as a former college linebacker, Hall still is undersized and has a lot to learn in terms of technique and the nuances of the position. He will sometimes come out of his stance a little high and not always play with leverage. As a result, he will give ground at the point of attack because he just doesn't seem to be in great position. Overall, Hall needs to continue to improve his bulk and strength, and must become more consistent against the run.

Mr. Laz
04-05-2005, 12:05 PM
if the welbourn trade is any example we traded a 5th round pick this year for Hall and a conditional 1st rounder next year for him.

Cochise
04-05-2005, 12:09 PM
if the welbourn trade is any example we traded a 5th round pick this year for Hall and a conditional 1st rounder next year for him.

Sigh, even when they make a good move it's still wrong.

Hoover
04-05-2005, 12:10 PM
ILB, S, DE, and if we get a CB before the draft, we will go with an offensive player in round one.

DeepSouth
04-05-2005, 12:14 PM
Why did the Titans let him go if he's any good?

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 12:14 PM
if the welbourn trade is any example we traded a 5th round pick this year for Hall and a conditional 1st rounder next year for him.

that's not what we traded to get Welbourn...

Sure-Oz
04-05-2005, 12:15 PM
IF he's so good why is he a 6th round pick, oh well anything to make hicks back up his mouth.

InChiefsHell
04-05-2005, 12:16 PM
I dunno, Hall sounds suspiciously like Hicks...their last names even begin with the same letter...coincidence??

...I think not. :hmmm:

Lzen
04-05-2005, 12:17 PM
Sigh, even when they make a good move it's still wrong.


You'll have to excuse Laz. It's his.....umm.....you know....time of the month.

ChiefsCountry
04-05-2005, 12:17 PM
Why did the Titans let him go if he's any good?

Titans are over the cap bad.

Also I bet it was a 7th rounder for Hall.

Tribal Warfare
04-05-2005, 12:18 PM
ILB, S, DE, and if we get a CB before the draft, we will go with an offensive player in round one.


If the even think of drafting offense in round one I'll drive down to One Arrowhead Drive and start pepper spraying the mother****er with my semiautomatic rifle.:# :bang:CeePee

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 12:19 PM
You'll have to excuse Laz. It's his.....umm.....you know....time of the month.

Actually, if you changed "month" to "year", there would be some validity to that statement.

It is, after all, free agency and the draft...

Nightfyre
04-05-2005, 12:20 PM
If the even think of drafting offense in round one I'll drive down to One Arrowhead Drive and start pepper spraying the mother****er with my semiautomatic rifle.:# :bang:CeePee
good luck pepperspraying with a SEMI automatic rifle


Hicks will be a june 1 casualty, methinks. or have his contract redone and be relegated to a back up role....









Hey I can dream.

ChiefsCountry
04-05-2005, 12:21 PM
If the even think of drafting offense in round one I'll drive down to One Arrowhead Drive and start pepper spraying the mother****er with my semiautomatic rifle.:# :bang:CeePee

Why? We got holes on offense as well.

Mr. Laz
04-05-2005, 12:21 PM
that's not what we traded to get Welbourn...

REALLY!! omg i didn't know, please tell me what we did trade for welbourn, cause i have no idea.

Mr. Laz
04-05-2005, 12:23 PM
Sigh, even when they make a good move it's still wrong.
oh blow that "sigh" out your ass, co-cheese



i was just being sarcastic ... i'm fine with getting hall

Frankie
04-05-2005, 12:25 PM
My mom falls into that category ...

My grandma falls into that category right now. God rest her soul.

Tribal Warfare
04-05-2005, 12:25 PM
Why? We got holes on offense as well.


:$2500: Like I said if don't draft defense in the 1st I'll start ****ing shit up

Frankie
04-05-2005, 12:26 PM
I dunno, Hall sounds suspiciously like Hicks...their last names even begin with the same letter...coincidence??

...I think not. :hmmm:
Hey Hall is a good name for us.

ChiTown
04-05-2005, 12:27 PM
Looks like Carl is thinning out the busts he would inevitably draft ...

MM
~~;)

ROFL

That had to be said........

Frankie
04-05-2005, 12:28 PM
Here is the Scouts Inc report on Carlos Hall. Remember Gun was in Tenn, so he must have seen something he liked.



2004 Scouting Report - Football Scouts Inc.
Name: Carlos Hall
Position: Defensive End
Grade: 71 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Hall is somewhat undersized, but he gets by on speed and quickness. He is at his best in space. He will beat a lot of offensive tackles with his first step. He chases down a lot of backside plays with good speed and a great motor. He shows good body control for a young player. He plays with a lot of aggressiveness and he always seems to be giving a great effort. He has good diagnostic skills  particularly for such a young player  and he does a fine job of finding the ball when he turns the corner as a pass rusher or in pursuit of the run. However, as a former college linebacker, Hall still is undersized and has a lot to learn in terms of technique and the nuances of the position. He will sometimes come out of his stance a little high and not always play with leverage. As a result, he will give ground at the point of attack because he just doesn't seem to be in great position. Overall, Hall needs to continue to improve his bulk and strength, and must become more consistent against the run.
Switch him to OLB maybe? :hmmm:

King_Chief_Fan
04-05-2005, 12:28 PM
Probably an o.k. signing.......We could have gone after some Browns players but, Denver took them all

petegz28
04-05-2005, 12:31 PM
About time they brough tin someone to compete with Hicks! He has been nothing short of disappointing the last few years.

Hoover
04-05-2005, 12:32 PM
If the even think of drafting offense in round one I'll drive down to One Arrowhead Drive and start pepper spraying the mother****er with my semiautomatic rifle.:# :bang:CeePee
I would love to grab a CB or a stud OLB, but if they are not there, and we got a DE, ILB, S, and CB we would be stupid not to take the best player on the board.

Frankie
04-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Probably an o.k. signing.......We could have gone after some Browns players but, Denver took them all
ROFL
DENVER BROWN COWS

Nightfyre
04-05-2005, 12:35 PM
The titanization of the cheifs almost occured. That and the dolphinization. I dont even know why we bother letting other players from the NFL spoil the pureness of the AFC West. The west is the best.

HolmeZz
04-05-2005, 12:36 PM
Titiefins.

TRR
04-05-2005, 12:37 PM
If we were to sign him, Tenn would have gotten a 7th round draft choice. I would say a 5th or 6th rounder at best for Hall.

Hall will be brought in to compete with Jared Allen. So it is kind of a sweet and sour signing.

the Talking Can
04-05-2005, 12:42 PM
If he's competing with Allen this is stupid. If he's competing with Hicks this is great.

I'll gladly give up a 6th or 7th round pick for a back-up DE....although I know nothing about this guy

Hoover
04-05-2005, 12:44 PM
There is no way the Chiefs are not excited about Allen, they just want to keep him motivated. Hicks is gone after June 1.

Lzen
04-05-2005, 12:48 PM
If we were to sign him, Tenn would have gotten a 7th round draft choice. I would say a 5th or 6th rounder at best for Hall.

Hall will be brought in to compete with Jared Allen. So it is kind of a sweet and sour signing.

Someone said he excelled in Tenn. at LDE when Kearse was injured. Hicks plays LDE for the Chiefs. So, what makes you think he was brought in just to compete with jared Allen?

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 12:49 PM
Someone said he excelled in Tenn. at LDE when Kearse was injured. Hicks plays LDE for the Chiefs. So, what makes you think he was brought in just to compete with jared Allen?

I believe Vermeil actually said that he plays the same position as Allen and would compete there...

siberian khatru
04-05-2005, 12:50 PM
Carl traded the 2 for Hall, so he can turn up the heat on the Dolphins: "We don't have a 2 anymore. You have to get rid of Surtain, which means you HAVE to take our 4th! So there!"

;)

nmt1
04-05-2005, 12:51 PM
If he's competing with Allen this is stupid. If he's competing with Hicks this is great.

Competition doesn't hurt, it helps. So what if this guy competes with Allen, they rotate in and out of the game anyway and whoever wins the competition will be all the better for it.

the Talking Can
04-05-2005, 12:54 PM
Competition doesn't hurt, it helps. So what if this guy competes with Allen, they rotate in and out of the game anyway and whoever wins the competition will be all the better for it.

sure, I just wonder how long Hicks has to suck before we bring in someone to compete with him...I'm sure Allen is looking at a %$^& loser like Hicks and scratching his head over this signing...

mikey23545
04-05-2005, 12:55 PM
Titiefins.

The Phits?

Chiefnj
04-05-2005, 12:58 PM
AAAGGGHHHH!!!!! NO!!!! This reduces the likelihood the Chiefs will take a DE, like Pollack, early in the draft. :cuss:

I believe his career is a mirror image of Vonnie Holiday's in KC. I think he had one really big game his first year where he put up 3-4 sacks, and since then hasn't done much but generate a rare sack.

morphius
04-05-2005, 12:58 PM
Someone to help push the guys on this team, someone that Gun knows and can help him implement what he wants this D to be, and his stats are not that far off from Hicks. Seems to be a very reasonable signing for someone that is taking up the draft postition that Carl would only use for a practice squad player anyway.

Damn I can only hope he can replace that squid Hicks.

penguinz
04-05-2005, 12:58 PM
The west is the best.The blue bus is calling us...
The blue bus is calling us..
Driver where you taking us

morphius
04-05-2005, 01:00 PM
AAAGGGHHHH!!!!! NO!!!! This reduces the likelihood the Chiefs will take a DE, like Pollack, early in the draft. :cuss:

I believe his career is a mirror image of Vonnie Holiday's in KC. I think he had one really big game his first year where he put up 3-4 sacks, and since then hasn't done much but generate a rare sack.
I expect nothing less then a CB in the first round. If we hit the target and get a player we could have Surtain, Warfield and the 1st rounder for a few years to come and when facing Indy, 3 CB's is a huge plus.

petegz28
04-05-2005, 01:01 PM
I believe Vermeil actually said that he plays the same position as Allen and would compete there...

That would be stupid! Allen is good and I thought he was one of DV's favorites. I don't know how many times I heard Dv say he stood up on the table to fight for Allen.

Hicks on the other hand has done absolutely nothing the last couple years sadly to say.

Chiefnj
04-05-2005, 01:02 PM
I expect nothing less then a CB in the first round. If we hit the target and get a player we could have Surtain, Warfield and the 1st rounder for a few years to come and when facing Indy, 3 CB's is a huge plus.

You know how effective that 1st round corner is going to be once Guinta gets his hands on him? I'll tell you how effective, not damn much. A pass rush beast aka David Pollack, will improve the D more than any other draftee.

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:02 PM
sure, I just wonder how long Hicks has to suck before we bring in someone to compete with him...I'm sure Allen is looking at a %$^& loser like Hicks and scratching his head over this signing...

I'd be surprised if Allen's worried.
BTW, what are your expectations for Hicks? Does he have to have a 14 sack season every year for him not to be terrible?
I believe Hicks is a solid run defender and mediocre pass rusher. He was an undrafted free agent so I think we got a good deal on him. The Chiefs obviously like him so he'll continue to be on the team whether we like it or not.

Chiefnj
04-05-2005, 01:06 PM
Who are the Titans starting DE's?? I couldn't name them either. When you see their names, you won't recognize them anyway, but for some reason they are willing to trade away this guy when they have no depth at the position to start with. Seems odd, unless they are sure Hall sucks.

morphius
04-05-2005, 01:08 PM
Who are the Titans starting DE's?? I couldn't name them either. When you see their names, you won't recognize them anyway, but for some reason they are willing to trade away this guy when they have no depth at the position to start with. Seems odd, unless they are sure Hall sucks.
Hence the reason that it is nice that Gun has first hand knowledge...

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:08 PM
That would be stupid! Allen is good and I thought he was one of DV's favorites. I don't know how many times I heard Dv say he stood up on the table to fight for Allen.

Hicks on the other hand has done absolutely nothing the last couple years sadly to say.

Why does everyone assume that just because we signed a DE that happened to play on the same side as Allen that the Chiefs all of the sudden don't like Allen? It's a bad assumption. The Chiefs aquired this guy(assuming this report is true) to compete in their DE rotation. No more, no less.
BTW, Hicks has 19 sacks over the last three years so he's hardly done nothing. He hasn't repeated his 14 sack performance of 2000 and probably never will. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

keg in kc
04-05-2005, 01:09 PM
Well, it's something I guess. Obviously a Gunther guy although I'm not sure why we needed to bring in a 260 pound end. Maybe he's going to take over Stills' roll in the nickel packages. Nice depth, I guess.

Chiefnj
04-05-2005, 01:11 PM
Hence the reason that it is nice that Gun has first hand knowledge...

Gun had first hand knowledge about Bartee too and decided to keep him around last year.

keg in kc
04-05-2005, 01:12 PM
BTW, Hicks has 19 sacks over the last three years so he's hardly done nothing. He hasn't repeated his 14 sack performance of 2000 and probably never will. Let's try to keep things in perspective.Three of the last four years he's finished with 5 or fewer sacks. He's gotten run over, around and by against the rush. He overpersues and misreads plays as badly now as he did when I first saw him play in 1999. It's a mystery to me how he retains a starting job.

That's my perspective, at least.

KCTitus
04-05-2005, 01:15 PM
It's calming to know that this is being seen as a bad move...

petegz28
04-05-2005, 01:16 PM
Why does everyone assume that just because we signed a DE that happened to play on the same side as Allen that the Chiefs all of the sudden don't like Allen? It's a bad assumption. The Chiefs aquired this guy(assuming this report is true) to compete in their DE rotation. No more, no less.
BTW, Hicks has 19 sacks over the last three years so he's hardly done nothing. He hasn't repeated his 14 sack performance of 2000 and probably never will. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

I didn't assume anything. I was going by what Rufy said DV said. MMK?

19 sacks a year is ok. He lacks leadership though and his tackling is average at best.

Frankie
04-05-2005, 01:16 PM
I believe his career is a mirror image of Vonnie Holiday's in KC. I think he had one really big game his first year where he put up 3-4 sacks, and since then hasn't done much but generate a rare sack.

A "mirror image" of Vonnie Holiday's career would actually be good.

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 01:18 PM
Why does everyone assume that just because we signed a DE that happened to play on the same side as Allen that the Chiefs all of the sudden don't like Allen? It's a bad assumption. The Chiefs aquired this guy(assuming this report is true) to compete in their DE rotation. No more, no less.
BTW, Hicks has 19 sacks over the last three years so he's hardly done nothing. He hasn't repeated his 14 sack performance of 2000 and probably never will. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

Like I said, I distinctly remember someone (I think it was Vermeil) saying Hall would compete with Allen, NOT Hicks.

morphius
04-05-2005, 01:19 PM
Gun had first hand knowledge about Bartee too and decided to keep him around last year.
Yes, but really, it had been more then a year since he had seen him.

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:20 PM
Three of the last four years he's finished with 5 or fewer sacks. He's gotten run over, around and by against the rush. He overpersues and misreads plays as badly now as he did when I first saw him play in 1999. It's a mystery to me how he retains a starting job.

That's my perspective, at least.

I'll agree with you on the overpursuit thing. Our whole defense has been guilty of that over the last several years. Heck, I remember that happening back when Marty was here. It's not something that one single player does.
Regarding the sacks, what are your expectations for Hicks? He had 9 three years ago 5 two years ago and 5 last year. That's not anything super but it's far from terrible. His record is better than Vonnie Holidays. It'd be nice to have double digit sacks from both defensive end positions but it isn't gonna happen.

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 01:20 PM
The biggest problem with Hicks is that he's appointed himself the leader of this horrid defense.

Every game, he came out and told the media that things were going to get better and they didn't.

Just like everybody wants rid of Carl because it "starts at the top", Hicks should be gone as well...

the Talking Can
04-05-2005, 01:21 PM
I'd be surprised if Allen's worried.
BTW, what are your expectations for Hicks? Does he have to have a 14 sack season every year for him not to be terrible?
I believe Hicks is a solid run defender and mediocre pass rusher. He was an undrafted free agent so I think we got a good deal on him. The Chiefs obviously like him so he'll continue to be on the team whether we like it or not.

Hicks is a worthless piece of shit, he is terrible against the run and worse against the pass....I was unaware there was anybody associated with pro football, in any capacity, as a player, GM, journalist, or fan who thought that Hicks was anything other than flaming turd- besides DV....I guess you make that number "2".

Hicks gets off the hook because the only player in the NFL more pathetic than him - Ryan Sims - just happens to play on the same DL.

As long as Hicks is a starter we will suck huge shafts as a defense.

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:21 PM
19 sacks a year is ok. He lacks leadership though and his tackling is average at best.

He lacks leadership? Do you get to go to the lockeroom after the games or during the week? How do you know this?

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:22 PM
Like I said, I distinctly remember someone (I think it was Vermeil) saying Hall would compete with Allen, NOT Hicks.

OK and what's wrong with that?

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:23 PM
Hicks is a worthless piece of shit, he is terrible against the run and worse against the pass....I was unaware there was anybody associated with pro football, in any capacity, as a player, GM, journalist, or fan who thought that Hicks was anything other than flaming turd- besides DV....I guess you make that number "2".

Hicks gets off the hook because the only player in the NFL more pathetic than him - Ryan Sims - just happens to play on the same DL.

As long as Hicks is a starter we will suck huge shafts as a defense.

You're rapidly approaching Genious status.

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:25 PM
The biggest problem with Hicks is that he's appointed himself the leader of this horrid defense.

Every game, he came out and told the media that things were going to get better and they didn't.

Just like everybody wants rid of Carl because it "starts at the top", Hicks should be gone as well...

You'd rather him come out and say, "We suck, we're not going to get any better, and I don't have any business playing in the NFL?" That's not realistic and asking someone to do something they clearly won't do.

jynni
04-05-2005, 01:27 PM
You know how effective that 1st round corner is going to be once Guinta gets his hands on him? I'll tell you how effective, not damn much.

But Guinta's never gotten a 1st round corner. All he's ever gotten a hold of are safeties that he was supposed to convert to corners.

keg in kc
04-05-2005, 01:27 PM
Regarding the sacks, what are your expectations for Hicks? He had 9 three years ago 5 two years ago and 5 last year. That's not anything super but it's far from terrible. His record is better than Vonnie Holidays. It'd be nice to have double digit sacks from both defensive end positions but it isn't gonna happen.Throwing out Vonnie Holliday's name isn't doing yourself any favors. I thought that was a horrible signing.

My expectations from Hicks were simple. 8-10 sacks. That's not a huge expectation to have, I think. I'd consider that an average sort of performance from a left end who is supposed to be more of a pass rusher than a run defender. He's reached that plateau twice in six seasons. I think it's safe to say that we've learned by now that he's not that good; a 5 sack year is about what we should expect and his 9 and 14 sack seasons were the aberration.

Coogs
04-05-2005, 01:29 PM
I expect nothing less then a CB in the first round. If we hit the target and get a player we could have Surtain, Warfield and the 1st rounder for a few years to come and when facing Indy, 3 CB's is a huge plus.

Indy ain't the problem. It's Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Houston....
and, now that I come to think about it, we didn't loose those games because of the defense, but because our offense screwed it up.

We don't need defensive players at all. We need offense! :cuss: :cuss:

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 01:30 PM
OK and what's wrong with that?

Are you serious? I seriously hope your playing devil's advocate here...

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 01:31 PM
You'd rather him come out and say, "We suck, we're not going to get any better, and I don't have any business playing in the NFL?" That's not realistic and asking someone to do something they clearly won't do.

No, I expect him to either see to it the defense gets better or SHUT THE **** UP.

morphius
04-05-2005, 01:31 PM
Regarding the sacks, what are your expectations for Hicks? He had 9 three years ago 5 two years ago and 5 last year. That's not anything super but it's far from terrible. His record is better than Vonnie Holidays. It'd be nice to have double digit sacks from both defensive end positions but it isn't gonna happen.

And as far as some of those 5 sack seasons, he has had at least 2 sacks each of those two years that were QB fall downs where he just happened to be the first one to touch the QB curled up in the fetal postion holding tightly to the ball. In other words, not impressive sacks.

Duck Dog
04-05-2005, 01:34 PM
You'll have to exscuse me for not jumping up and down over a 7th rd DE who has had only 13.5 sacks over a 45 game stretch. I hope we didn't give up more than 7 rd choice for him.

RUSSELLVILLE, Ark. -- A jury awarded $250,000 in damages Friday to a woman who sued former Razorback Carlos Hall over a traffic accident in which he pleaded guilty to alcohol-related charges.

Hall's vehicle collided with Mackey's car on Interstate 40 near Pottsville. Mackey's car slid off the road and overturned. Hall did not stop at the scene and was picked up by Conway police less than an hour after the accident.

Yeah, and he's a man of great character. :rolleyes:

philfree
04-05-2005, 01:35 PM
We had to have another DE since we let Holliday go and Holliday did play the RDE position. It's like the article says Hall is gonna be part of the roatation. It Also tells me we probably won't draft a DE in the 1st round.

PhilFree:arrow:

PastorMikH
04-05-2005, 01:35 PM
OK and what's wrong with that?



Nothing if Hicks brings more to the field than Allen or Hall. But if that's the case, why not let Hicks compete on the practice field and prove it just the same?

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:35 PM
Throwing out Vonnie Holliday's name isn't doing yourself any favors. I thought that was a horrible signing.

My expectations from Hicks were simple. 8-10 sacks. That's not a huge expectation to have, I think. I'd consider that an average sort of performance from a left end who is supposed to be more of a pass rusher than a run defender. He's reached that plateau twice in six seasons. I think it's safe to say that we've learned by now that he's not that good; a 5 sack year is about what we should expect and his 9 and 14 sack seasons were the aberration.

I mention Vonnie Holiday as an example of a bad player. Hicks is better than Holiday, we can agree on that I think. To hear many talk about Hicks though, you'd think he was worse that Holiday. Just trying to keep things in perspective.
Hicks hasn't lived up to your expectations but that doesn't mean he's a terrible player. I've always been under the impression that the LDE is the more stout, run defender whereas the RDE is the pass rusher due to his coming from the blind side of the QB. Just like the right tackle is usually the mauler and better run blocker and the left tackle is more athletic and a better pass blocker. Maybe I'm wrong.
Like I said, it'd be nice to have double digit sacks from both end spots but it isn't gonna happen.

buddha
04-05-2005, 01:36 PM
Why did the Titans let him go if he's any good?

Isn't this like saying, "I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me?"

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:38 PM
Are you serious? I seriously hope your playing devil's advocate here...

I truly believe that there's nothing at all wrong with making players from one of the worst defenses in the league compete for their jobs, regardless of who they are, where they were drafted, and what they did the previous season. I like Jared Allen and I hope he wins the starting job. I'm of the opinion that competition will make Allen better and if both guys are good, then we have good depth regardless of who starts on game day. Besides, the Chiefs signed the guy, pissing and moaning about who he's going to compete against is pretty useless at this point.

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:39 PM
No, I expect him to either see to it the defense gets better or SHUT THE **** UP.

Well if he didn't speak up, then people would say we have no leadership on defense. Sounds to me like he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:40 PM
And as far as some of those 5 sack seasons, he has had at least 2 sacks each of those two years that were QB fall downs where he just happened to be the first one to touch the QB curled up in the fetal postion holding tightly to the ball. In other words, not impressive sacks.

So it's the type of sack that matters and not that he got them? What if Hicks wasn't anywhere near the play, the QB gets up and takes off or makes a pass. I don't care if they were impressive or not.

nmt1
04-05-2005, 01:41 PM
Nothing if Hicks brings more to the field than Allen or Hall. But if that's the case, why not let Hicks compete on the practice field and prove it just the same?

How do you know he's not going to have any competition?

keg in kc
04-05-2005, 01:45 PM
Hicks hasn't lived up to your expectations but that doesn't mean he's a terrible player. I've always been under the impression that the LDE is the more stout, run defender whereas the RDE is the pass rusher due to his coming from the blind side of the QB.That's exactly why I made the caveat about him being more of a pass rusher than a run defender, even though he plays the strong side. Because, let's face it, he's not run defending kind of end. Not in any way, shape or form.

His performance just doesn't cut it for me. An acceptable down year for me would be 7. Maybe 5 once. Not 5 twice, 4 once and 3.5 once. I think we've seen him for what he is, and I think we need to find someone who can do it better. I'm not saying he's horrible. But I do believe he's proven himself below average. He's not a run defender and he's not a pass rusher. He's basically just a body that occupies a spot on the line. I could see him as a rotational end, but he's not starting material in my opinion.

I wouldn't have said that a couple of years ago. I'm simply judging on performance.

whoman69
04-05-2005, 01:47 PM
Well, that might be one thing we can scratch off our draft agenda. We still need a CB and OLB with our top picks.

buddha
04-05-2005, 01:48 PM
I think Hall is a fine signing. His productivity was down last season, but it's clear that he has played at a very high level before and the change of scenery may bring that out again. I suspect we traded a mid to lower round pick, which would be a good deal for a 4th year player of this calibre. How can this be anything but good for the Chiefs?

dave0320
04-05-2005, 01:48 PM
I believe 810/WHB said it was a 5th round pick. :thumb:

CosmicPal
04-05-2005, 01:49 PM
Player Bio (Titans official team website)

PRO: Entering his third year, Hall is poised to take over a starting role at defensive end after being a significant contributor in his first two seasons. A converted linebacker in college who is a perfect fit at defensive end based on his ability to utilizing his speed and get to the quarterback from the edge position. As a rookie, he was called upon to start 13 games in place of an injured Jevon Kearse. Hall answered the call with eight sacks and 70 tackles. An outstanding athlete who was highly recruited coming out of high school to play both basketball and football after earning all-state and all-district honors in both sports. Hall became the fourth Oilers/Titans defensive lineman since 1997 named to the All-Rookie first-team (Kenny Holmes, Jevon Kearse and John Thornton). Ironically, the only rookies from the 2002 draft class who collected more sacks than Hall were both selected in the first round and made the same All-Rookie team (Dwight Freeney, Indianapolis, 13; Julius Peppers, Carolina, 12) with the former Razorback. He ranks third on the all-time franchise list for sacks by a rookie trailing Jesse Baker (15.5 in 1979) and Jevon Kearse (14.5 in 1999). An outstanding athlete who has a 42-inch vertical, bench presses more than 400 pounds (415) and holds the Razorback school record in the power clean (365 pounds). He was selected in the seventh round (240th overall) of the 2002 draft.

TITANS TIDBITS:
• Hall recalls being recruited by the University of Tennessee when head coach Phil Fulmer visited his home to talk about possibility of him suiting up for the Volunteers. During his official visit to Knoxville, Hall’s host, current Denver Broncos linebacker Al Wilson introduced Hall to current Baltimore Raven Jamal Lewis, a running back from Atlanta, Georgia who was also being highly touted by the Vols coaching staff. The two talked about the possibility of playing together at UT but Hall decided playing in-state closer to family would be in his best interest. Little did the two of them know they would be playing against each other in the NFL.
• Former Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Dennis “Dirt” Winston, who was selected to the Razorbacks’ All-Century Team in 1994, played a major role into helping Hall become a better player when he first arrived in Fayetteville. Winston, who then served as the Razorbacks linebackers coach, hailed from the small town of Marianna and was aware of some of Hall’s shortcomings as a freshman. He credits the eight-year NFL player for improving his understanding of the team’s complicated defensive schemes and making him a better player.
• Despite receiving letters from prominent basketball powerhouses such as Cincinnati and Oklahoma State, Hall knew his days as a basketball player were numbered once he stepped on the campus of the University of Arkansas. Although he was almost persuaded by then Razorback assistant coach and current head coach at Alabama-Birmingham, Mike Anderson, he considered himself too short and felt it was in his best interests to devote full attention and compete for the Razorback football team.
• Hall felt slighted when he wasn’t selected on the first day of the 2002 NFL draft. On day two, he and his roommate remained in their campus dormitory watching the NBA playoffs when he received a call from his agent informing him that one of the teams that may select him would be the Titans. When the phone rang, he thought it was friends on the phone talking about the playoffs but instead it was a representative from the Titans organization and the rest as they say is history.
• Hall was credited with three sacks in his first NFL game against Philadelphia (9/8/02) to become only the second player in league history (Chip Banks, Cleveland @ Seattle, 9/12/82) to collect three sacks in the first game of their careers. For his efforts, Hall was named AFC Defensive Player of the Week.

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS:
IN 2003, saw action in every game, starting four games at defensive end in place of injured Jevon Kearse (right ankle), registering 66 tackles, three sacks, 13 quarterback pressures and four tackles behind line of scrimmage. Ranked fourth among defensive linemen in tackles, his second consecutive season in which he ranked among top four among defensive linemen.
• In season opener against AFC defending champion Oakland Raiders (9/7), posted three tackles, one quarterback pressure and a sack of 2002 MVP Rich Gannon in 25-20 win.
• Against Miami (11/9), accounted for four tackles and one sack, coming against Brian Griese on a third-down play in second quarter in 31-7 win over Dolphins.
• Against Jacksonville (11/16), replaced an injured Jevon Kearse (right ankle) in first quarter and completed contest with six tackles, one quarterback pressure and one tackle for loss in 10-3 win.
• Started first game of season at Atlanta (11/23), collecting five tackles, two quarterback pressures and one tackle for loss in 38-31 win.
• Against Indianapolis (12/7), made a season-high eight tackles, one stop behind line of scrimmage and one sack of 2003 co-MVP Peyton Manning in fourth quarter for a four-yard loss in loss to Colts.
• Started third game of season against Buffalo (12/14), totaling seven tackles, two quarterback pressures and one tackle for a loss in 28-26 come-from-behind win over Bills.
• Saw action in both postseason games at Baltimore (1/3) and New England (1/10), recording one tackle and one fumble recovery.

IN 2002, played in 15 games, registering 13 starts at defensive end, totaling 70 tackles, eight sacks, 11 quarterback pressures, two tackles for loss, five pass deflections and one forced fumble. Ranked second on team in sacks (Kevin Carter, 10), and third among defensive linemen in tackles.
• Began season by posting three sacks in season opener against Eagles signal caller Donovan McNabb after replacing an injured Jevon Kearse on second play of game. Accounted for seven stops and one forced fumble in 27-24 victory over Philadelphia. His third sack forced a fumble by McNabb which was recovered by Kevin Carter to seal the victory with 1:12 in regulation.
• At Dallas (9/15), Hall made his first NFL start of career, collecting five tackles.
• At Oakland, started his third consecutive game and was credited with five stops and one sack against league MVP Rich Gannon.
• Recorded career-high nine tackles, two quarterback pressures and one sack against David Carr in 17-10 victory against Houston (11/10).
• At NY Giants (12/1), started eighth game of season, recording six tackles, a sack against Kerry Collins and two pass deflections in Titans come-from-behind 32-29 overtime win. Credited with batting away a Collins pass and then sacking Giants signal caller on successive plays in contest.
• Against New England (12/16) on Monday Night Football, accounted for four tackles, one sack of Tom Brady and two quarterback pressures in 24-7 win against defending Super Bowl champs.
• Started both postseason playoff games and totaled eight tackles, three quarterback pressures and three tackles for a loss.

COLLEGE:
• Started 32 of 41 career games at Arkansas, where he totaled 29 tackles behind line of scrimmage. Named honorable mention All-American by Street & Smith and second-team All-SEC by Associated Press as senior, recording 49 tackles, five tackles for loss, two forced fumbles, one fumble recovery and one sack.
• Named to Knoxville News-Sentinel’s All-SEC freshman team, recording 45 tackles, 11 stops behind line of scrimmage and five sacks.
• Majored in recreation.

PERSONAL:
•Married his college sweetheart, during the offseason (3/15). Couple splits time between Nashville and Marianna, Ark.
• Earned all-state, all-conference and all-district honors as senior at Lee (Marianna, Ark.) HS, totaling more than 150 tackles at linebacker and catching six touchdowns at tight end. Voted to play in Arkansas all-star game following senior season. Also voted all-state and all-district performer in basketball.
• Older brother, Tyrone, played basketball at Arkansas State.
• List of Favorites: (movies) “Life” or any Denzel Washington movie, (book) the Bible, (sports heroes) Lawrence Taylor and Michael Jordan, (TV shows) “Sanford and Son” and “Good Times,” (school subject) English, (actor) Denzel Washington, (restaurant) Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse, (car) Cadillac Denali, (video games) PlayStation 2, (other pro sports team) Dallas Cowboys and (sports media personality) Charles Barkley.
• Has participated in Kevin Carter's Celebrity Waiter's Dinner in each of the last two years.
• Born Carlos DeShaun Hall on January 16, 1979 in Marianna, Ark.

PastorMikH
04-05-2005, 01:51 PM
How do you know he's not going to have any competition?



Wilkerson and Stills, that should provide Hicks with some motivation.


FWIW stat-wise based on last year, Allen IS our best DE. Allen produced more solo tackles and sacks - and he was a rookie playing as a backup most of the year - and also didn't play in as many games as Hicks.

I'd just like to make sure the guys on the field are better than the guys on the bench.



To be honest, part of me thinks Hicks is soft. And as long as he is the "leader" of our D, they will also be soft. I'd like to see Hicks have to worry about someone other than Gary Stills or Jimmie Wilkerson for his job.

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 01:55 PM
I truly believe that there's nothing at all wrong with making players from one of the worst defenses in the league compete for their jobs, regardless of who they are, where they were drafted, and what they did the previous season. I like Jared Allen and I hope he wins the starting job. I'm of the opinion that competition will make Allen better and if both guys are good, then we have good depth regardless of who starts on game day. Besides, the Chiefs signed the guy, pissing and moaning about who he's going to compete against is pretty useless at this point.

That's complete and utter bullshit and you know it.

I don't have a problem with Jared Allen competing for a job. I have a problem with Jared Allen, OUR BEST DEFENSIVE LINEMAN, competing for a job while that worthless sack of shit doesn't...it's a double-standard and it's bullshit.

tk13
04-05-2005, 01:59 PM
To clear this up, I do believe I posted the article a while back about Hall, and if I am not mistaken, the ONLY guy who said Carlos Hall would compete with Jared Allen was Adam Teicher. There were no quotes from Dick, Carl, or anybody indicating that... it was speculation on Teicher's part. I'm sure with the way we rotate linemen there'll be times where Hall's in the game and Allen's not, but at this point it is nothing but an assumption to assume that this move has nothing to do with Hicks.

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 02:00 PM
shane, you shouldn't have deleted that post...it was actually pretty good...

shaneo69
04-05-2005, 02:02 PM
shane, you shouldn't have deleted that post...it was actually pretty good...

I thought the Pastor beat me to it. Mine was just more smart-ass.

petegz28
04-05-2005, 02:05 PM
He lacks leadership? Do you get to go to the lockeroom after the games or during the week? How do you know this?


Nope..I just call what I see on the field. But I guess you are in the locker room right?

HE LACKS LEADERSHIP!

STLCHIEF2
04-05-2005, 02:30 PM
Chiefs traded an unconditional 2005 draft pick for DE Carlos Hall of the Titans. Check out KFFL it states it there.

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 02:30 PM
repost

siberian khatru
04-05-2005, 02:31 PM
Elton John is gay

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-05-2005, 02:31 PM
Oh good, we needed a third thread about Carlos Hall.

beavis
04-05-2005, 02:31 PM
The Giants win the pennant!

Iowanian
04-05-2005, 02:35 PM
I'm not exactly over-joyed by the signing, because I don't really know much about Hall. I've watched the Titans play, and he's been invisible to me. Like any Chief, I hope he's the next Great thing.

I'd feel alot better about "Gunther guys" if I didn't have the voice in the back of my head saying "Bartee was a Gunther guy"....

I said it earlier and I'll repeat now...........I'm for Upgrading Every position at every spot in the depth chart. If Hall is an upgrade over Wilkerson or more likely, Stills........I'm all for it.

buddha
04-05-2005, 02:43 PM
I'd feel alot better about "Gunther guys" if I didn't have the voice in the back of my head saying "Bartee was a Gunther guy"....


BINGO!

That voice in the back of your head is wise...keep listening to it. Gun has proven that he is not the most astute judge of talent in more than one case. Anybody who couldn't figure out that Bartee wasn't a CB the first time around, would certainly know it for sure the second time around...right? No. Hence the concern about Gunther's ability to evaluate talent. Everybody is wrong about players once, but when they miss on the same guy twice, you know there's something wrong there.

Spicy McHaggis
04-05-2005, 02:47 PM
Who are the Titans starting DE's?? I couldn't name them either. When you see their names, you won't recognize them anyway, but for some reason they are willing to trade away this guy when they have no depth at the position to start with. Seems odd, unless they are sure Hall sucks.

I think the thought the Titans were having was that the Chiefs were going to make an offer to Hall anyway, why not try and get a higher pick than the 7th at the end of the round they would have gotten. And to answer your question, Antwan Odom, Travis Laboy, Schobel and until recently Hall and Carter. The reason you haven't heard of the first 3 is they were all drafted last year.

TRR
04-05-2005, 02:54 PM
To clear this up, I do believe I posted the article a while back about Hall, and if I am not mistaken, the ONLY guy who said Carlos Hall would compete with Jared Allen was Adam Teicher. There were no quotes from Dick, Carl, or anybody indicating that... it was speculation on Teicher's part. I'm sure with the way we rotate linemen there'll be times where Hall's in the game and Allen's not, but at this point it is nothing but an assumption to assume that this move has nothing to do with Hicks.

Vermeil actually said they were looking at Hall to come in and compete with Jared Allen. Teicher might have said it too, but the quote that I read came from Vermeil himself. As a matter of fact, some posters on here were pretty livid about Vermeil's comment.

That doesn't mean Gun won't move Hall over to the other side, but that is what Vermeil said.

To answer the other posters questions about letting Hall go. They didn't want to let him go. They wanted to keep Hall. He is young, and has been pretty productive. However, the Titans are supposedly cap strapped (regardless of what Clayton from ESPN says in his cap numbers) and thought that if KC made him a big offer, they would not have the money to match. So they took the 5th rounder and traded Hall to us.

BTW, we had like 3 or 4 5th round picks before this trade.

beer bacon
04-05-2005, 02:58 PM
Vermeil actually said they were looking at Hall to come in and compete with Jared Allen. Teicher might have said it too, but the quote that I read came from Vermeil himself. As a matter of fact, some posters on here were pretty livid about Vermeil's comment.

That doesn't mean Gun won't move Hall over to the other side, but that is what Vermeil said.

To answer the other posters questions about letting Hall go. They didn't want to let him go. They wanted to keep Hall. He is young, and has been pretty productive. However, the Titans are supposedly cap strapped (regardless of what Clayton from ESPN says in his cap numbers) and thought that if KC made him a big offer, they would not have the money to match. So they took the 5th rounder and traded Hall to us.

BTW, we had like 3 or 4 5th round picks before this trade.

It wouldn't make sense for Hall to replace Hicks anyways. He is too light. The only time he could replace him would be on obvious passing downs.

TRR
04-05-2005, 03:00 PM
It wouldn't make sense for Hall to replace Hicks anyways. He is too light. The only time he could replace him would be on obvious passing downs.

Light or not, Hicks isn't that great in run support anyways. I thought Allen did a solid job at DE against the run, and he was said to be too light as well.

In Tennessee, Hall didn't just play on passing downs.

tk13
04-05-2005, 03:00 PM
Vermeil actually said they were looking at Hall to come in and compete with Jared Allen. Teicher might have said it too, but the quote that I read came from Vermeil himself. As a matter of fact, some posters on here were pretty livid about Vermeil's comment.


I remember everybody being livid, and I remember noting in that thread that Teicher was the only one who actually said there was a competition.... I don't think it got much attention though.

Rausch
04-05-2005, 03:10 PM
BINGO!

That voice in the back of your head is wise...keep listening to it. Gun has proven that he is not the most astute judge of talent in more than one case. Anybody who couldn't figure out that Bartee wasn't a CB the first time around, would certainly know it for sure the second time around...right? No. Hence the concern about Gunther's ability to evaluate talent. Everybody is wrong about players once, but when they miss on the same guy twice, you know there's something wrong there.

First, it's impossible to know who were Peterson picks, Marty, picks, Gunther picks, or DV picks.

That said, it's seems obvious that all should share the blame/credit.

He drafted a productive Woods, Wesley, Tongue, Allen, Browning, and signed a ton of productive players on defense.

Gun also helped maintain a solid Titans defense.

Also, landing Hall helps us push Allen. And yes, Allen DOES need pushed. Anyone who remembers the info on him when we drafted him knows that he was considered a risk, he DID have off the field issues, and if we don't want a guy getting lazy after a solid rookie year we NEED to push him.

This year Allen will be viewed as a threat making it even harder for him to repeat that 9 sack performance. We need him to repeat that type of production.

Rausch
04-05-2005, 03:12 PM
Light or not, Hicks isn't that great in run support anyways. I thought Allen did a solid job at DE against the run, and he was said to be too light as well.

In Tennessee, Hall didn't just play on passing downs.

And Allen was excellent at stopping the bootleg and containing the QB...

tk13
04-05-2005, 03:15 PM
I remember everybody being livid, and I remember noting in that thread that Teicher was the only one who actually said there was a competition.... I don't think it got much attention though.
For the record... here you go.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=112349

That's the thread. This is what Teicher's article said:

Hall is the most intriguing of Tuesday's other visitors. Not only could he challenge Jared Allen to be a starter at right defensive end if he joined the Chiefs, but he's also a restricted free agent.

The Titans would have the right to match any offer sheet he signs. The Chiefs would give the Titans a seventh-round draft pick if they declined to match.

Hall was a starter for two of his three NFL seasons. He had eight sacks as a rookie in 2002 but fell to three the following season and 2½ last year. Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham coached for the Titans during his first two seasons.

“He's a young, enthusiastic player,” Vermeil said. “He has a tremendous motor. He would be a great addition to our roster, but that all takes time and I imagine (Tennessee) would match. We certainly have an interest, and if he's going to leave Tennessee, he might as well come here.”

As you would see in the thread everybody flipped out over this, but as I noted toward the end of the thread, Teicher was the only one who brought it up, not Vermeil.

Thig Lyfe
04-05-2005, 03:20 PM
Holy crap!

I signed Carlos Hall once in Madden 2004!

royr17
04-05-2005, 03:20 PM
Is it possible that Carlos Hall could steal Eric Hicks job this year ???

jcroft
04-05-2005, 03:21 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2030310&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

ESPN confirms that Hall will compete at RIGHT starting end...and that we gave up a FIFTH round pick for him.

Iowanian
04-05-2005, 03:28 PM
I think a challenger is a great idea........It should keep competition burning a fire under Allen's arse. Maybe a first day draft pick will do the same for Hicks.

Dave Lane
04-05-2005, 03:30 PM
The blue bus is calling us...
The blue bus is calling us..
Driver where you taking us

I was thinkng the same thing. Ahhh the Doors.

Dave

philfree
04-05-2005, 03:30 PM
Call it a competition if you want but the fact is Jared Allen can't play every single down of the season and we didn't have a back for him so now we do. I don't see the big. Allen will be the starter and Hall will be the backup unless we do something crazy like move Allen to LDE and start Hall on the right.

PhilFree :arrow:

booger
04-05-2005, 03:59 PM
Call it a competition if you want but the fact is Jared Allen can't play every single down of the season and we didn't have a back for him so now we do. I don't see the big. Allen will be the starter and Hall will be the backup unless we do something crazy like move Allen to LDE and start Hall on the right.

PhilFree :arrow:

Moving Allen to LDE isn't a crazy idea, IMO. At 6'6" and 265 he would probably need 20lbs of good solid weight gain though. Last year Wilkerson put on some weight and seemed a bit slower and sluggish. I'd hate to see that with Allen. He does have the frame to be a LE though. I don't know if we would see it this season or not. My guess is One more year with Hicks at LE with Allen at RE and Hall rotating in.

htismaqe
04-05-2005, 03:59 PM
Call it a competition if you want but the fact is Jared Allen can't play every single down of the season and we didn't have a back for him so now we do. I don't see the big. Allen will be the starter and Hall will be the backup unless we do something crazy like move Allen to LDE and start Hall on the right.

PhilFree :arrow:

Goddamn board! :cuss:

Anyway, I don't have a problem with competition. I don't have a problem with anybody on this defense being forced to compete and get better.

I do have a problem with bringing in competition for a guy who worked his ass off to go from a 4th-round pick to the BEST LINEMEN on this team, while that worthless piece of shit on the other side gets a free pass.

Of course, what do you expect from Dick Senile? He wanted Troy Vincent to compete with WILLIAM BARTEE.

:banghead:

Tuckdaddy
04-05-2005, 04:01 PM
Good move. Puits added talent on the defensive line and he's young with alot of upside. Gun must have pushed for him.

royr17
04-05-2005, 04:08 PM
Umm Allen has put on 15 lbs in the offseason and is currently up to 280 accordin 2 what my dad told me.

Iowanian
04-05-2005, 04:37 PM
Depth is a good thing. Hall has been an NFL starter for several games. Game experience is also good.

No 5th round Draft pick is a lock to contribute this year, let alone ever..the Chiefs have Multiple 5-7th picks.......This is a good trade.

Anyone who doesn't know the Chiefs are drafting a Corner in Round 1 is licking their own Prostate.

PastorMikH
04-05-2005, 04:38 PM
And Allen was excellent at stopping the bootleg and containing the QB...



I'm sure glad somebody on our D figured that out. I was getting tired of seeing them get burned on bootlegs multiple times a game.

carlos3652
04-05-2005, 04:40 PM
I posted this in the other DE Carlos Hall worth 5th rounder thread... what does everyone think about Miami Trading down because they wont get that 2nd from us...

If we did, its ok, we only have 3 5th round picks, and i am for sure that Hall will be more than just a back up in our rotation....

there is a huge difference between our 4th round pick (15) and our 5th (26) (the same difference between our 2nd and 4th)

Kansas City Chiefs - 2005 NFL DraftTracker
RD PK(OVR)
1 15(15)
2 14(46)
3 35(99)
4 15(116)
5 11(147)
5 14(150)
5 26(162)
6 13(187)
6 25(199)
7 15(229)
7 24(238)

Im pretty sure we are ok, how many 5th rounders do we need, we will proabably package other picks to trade up or to get Surtain.... In other News:

Miami might trade No. 2 pick
April 5
Miami Herald (registration required): "The Dolphins are willing to trade the second overall pick in the coming NFL draft, a fact two league sources say is getting around because Miami personnel people are saying as much in conversations with peers from other teams... Edwards' addition might be another sign the Dolphins expect to trade cornerback Patrick Surtain, likely to Kansas City."

philfree
04-05-2005, 05:00 PM
Umm Allen has put on 15 lbs in the offseason and is currently up to 280 accordin 2 what my dad told me.

And where does daddy get his info? Not that I doubt I just wanna know.


PhilFree :arrow:

eazyb81
04-05-2005, 05:07 PM
Goddamn board! :cuss:

Anyway, I don't have a problem with competition. I don't have a problem with anybody on this defense being forced to compete and get better.

I do have a problem with bringing in competition for a guy who worked his ass off to go from a 4th-round pick to the BEST LINEMEN on this team, while that worthless piece of shit on the other side gets a free pass.

Of course, what do you expect from Dick Senile? He wanted Troy Vincent to compete with WILLIAM BARTEE.

:banghead:

My thoughts exactly.

Mr. Laz
04-05-2005, 05:15 PM
I do have a problem with bringing in competition for a guy who worked his ass off to go from a 4th-round pick to the BEST LINEMEN on this team, while that worthless piece of shit on the other side gets a free pass

hall will go into the rotation behind Allen ... taking the place of Holliday


HOPEFULLY they plan on letting Browning compete for playing time against hicks.

general you want a slightly bigger power guy on the left side. Going by his stats, Halls seems to be a right end


if they give him a chance, i think Browning kicks Hicks ass and takes his starting job.

Of course, Browning with have to drag Ol' Dick kicking and screaming all the way to do it. Browning will be in there for key downs first ... and then he'll get more playing time. Then finally Hicks will be starter in name only while browning is carrying the load. Then the senile old man with have to finally admit it and, with a tear in his eye, announced that they've decided to start Browning in typically pathetic Vermeil-ese.

philfree
04-05-2005, 05:20 PM
Goddamn board! :cuss:

Anyway, I don't have a problem with competition. I don't have a problem with anybody on this defense being forced to compete and get better.

I do have a problem with bringing in competition for a guy who worked his ass off to go from a 4th-round pick to the BEST LINEMEN on this team, while that worthless piece of shit on the other side gets a free pass.

Of course, what do you expect from Dick Senile? He wanted Troy Vincent to compete with WILLIAM BARTEE.

:banghead:

Hicks hasn't played as well as we'd all have liked but I don't think he gets a free pass. I think he works as hard as any player on the team and that's alot of why he's been solidified at LDE. If players like Wilkerson would beat Hicks out it might make a difference. Who's the DE on our roster who is better then Hicks? Not that that's a good thing but I just don't see the free pass.

PhilFree:arrow:

jcroft
04-05-2005, 05:20 PM
Anyone who doesn't know the Chiefs are drafting a Corner in Round 1 is licking their own Prostate.

What's wrong with that (ENDelt wants to know)?

philfree
04-05-2005, 05:35 PM
Moving Allen to LDE isn't a crazy idea, IMO. At 6'6" and 265 he would probably need 20lbs of good solid weight gain though. Last year Wilkerson put on some weight and seemed a bit slower and sluggish. I'd hate to see that with Allen. He does have the frame to be a LE though. I don't know if we would see it this season or not. My guess is One more year with Hicks at LE with Allen at RE and Hall rotating in.

I don't think it's crazy either but to me that would be an unexpected move. I guess that's what I meant by crazy. I think that's part of Hick's subpar play. He put on weight and it slowed him down. I think Allen can handle the weight though. According to roy17 he's put on 15 pounds already which to me 280LBs is plenty big enough to play LDE.


PhilFree:arrow:

penchief
04-05-2005, 05:42 PM
Call it a competition if you want but the fact is Jared Allen can't play every single down of the season and we didn't have a back for him so now we do. I don't see the big. Allen will be the starter and Hall will be the backup unless we do something crazy like move Allen to LDE and start Hall on the right.

PhilFree :arrow:

Good post. Not only that, but if Hall comes in and does a good job who's to say that he can't challenge for the LDE job?

IMO, any attempt to correlate Vermiel's statements with Carl's moves is already proven to be an exercise in futility. LJ is a good example of this. If any of us were pressed to provide other examples, I feel fairly certain that it is possible to do so.

Hall is young and athletic. Getting a fresh start in a championship-starved environment like KC represents a good risk for the Chiefs, even at the cost of a fifth round pick. Not only do we have three picks in that round but how many fifth-rounders usually stick in this league? I know, I know, Carl usually does a better job in the late rounds but it's still a crap shoot.

How many of you think Hall could be better than Eddie Freeman?

LiL stumppy
04-05-2005, 05:43 PM
Why would you have to weigh more to play LDE then RDE?

nychief
04-05-2005, 05:44 PM
Why would you have to weigh more to play LDE then RDE?

it's all ball barrings nowadays...

philfree
04-05-2005, 05:49 PM
Why would you have to weigh more to play LDE then RDE?

Power End on the left and Speed Rusher on the blindside. That's just always been perception.


PhilFree :arrow:

LiL stumppy
04-05-2005, 05:55 PM
Power End on the left and Speed Rusher on the blindside. That's just always been perception.



PhilFree :arrow:

Ah,that makes since.

Mr. Laz
04-05-2005, 05:56 PM
Why would you have to weigh more to play LDE then RDE?
you don't HAVE to ... but in general the left side of the defense is the power side.

with the right side, being on the quarterbacks blind side, is where you want a speed guy coming around the corner where the QB can't see him.

the Talking Can
04-05-2005, 06:48 PM
Why would you have to weigh more to play LDE then RDE?

because Johhny Morton is gay

keg in kc
04-05-2005, 06:52 PM
BrowningBrowningBrowningBrowningBrowningBrowningBrowningI don't think we'll get any more out of a 31-year old mediocre slow as molasses 300 pounder than we do out of a 29-year old mediocre slow as molasses 280 pounder.

NJ Chief Fan
04-05-2005, 07:26 PM
we traded a 05 fifth rounder for hall and we also signed his fellow team mate wr darell hill

Chiefnj
04-05-2005, 07:36 PM
I'm not comforted by the fact that people are saying this is a Gunther pick. I don't think Gunther really has an eye for defensive talent. He's a good coach, but I don't think he's a good draft guy.

Gunther was head coach for two years, wherein he presumably had a lot to say about the draft. He drafted 5 defensive players over that two year stretch - Bartee (bust), Wesley (good rookie year but has regressed so much, they signed his replacement this offseason), Dennis (bust), Stills (bust as a starter, very good special teams player) and Atkins (bust).

Couple that up with the defensive plan of last year, and I am left with no option but to believe that Gunther's eye for defensive talent leaves a lot to be desired. Good coach, bad evaluator. Sometimes, I really miss Marty.

booger
04-05-2005, 07:36 PM
I don't think it's crazy either but to me that would be an unexpected move. I guess that's what I meant by crazy. I think that's part of Hick's subpar play. He put on weight and it slowed him down. I think Allen can handle the weight though. According to roy17 he's put on 15 pounds already which to me 280LBs is plenty big enough to play LDE.


PhilFree:arrow:

Yep. A solid 10-15 lbs of muscle would do it. 280 is what Hicks is.

I really don't expect it either, at least not right away. I could see Hall talking away Hicks' snaps on passing downs though. It just depends on Hall i guess. I wonder how much we paid they guy?

Woodrow Call
04-05-2005, 07:36 PM
I like the signing. If you don't look at as competition and just accept that he is basically taking Holliday's turn in the rotation I don't see how anyone can't like it.

Hall isn't taking Allen's job or Hick's job :banghead: he is just filling the hole in roster and filling it a lot better than Vonnie.

Iowanian
04-05-2005, 07:40 PM
Lil Stump....

The LDE typically is playing against both the RT and TE. Alot of times the RT is a powerful Run Blocker and the DE has to fight through/off both the RT and TE..and occasional Chip from the FB.

Frankie
04-05-2005, 07:45 PM
Ah,that makes since.

ROFL
Thank you LS for contributing the newest word to the Chiefsplanet vocabulary.

Frankie
04-05-2005, 07:46 PM
we traded a 05 fifth rounder for hall and we also signed his fellow team mate wr darell hill
WELCOME TO THE "HILL & HALL" SHOW!

stevieray
04-05-2005, 07:51 PM
Couple that up with the defensive plan of last year

I often wonder if he could've stopped Indy in the 2004 playoff game.

Mr. Laz
04-05-2005, 07:51 PM
I don't think we'll get any more out of a 31-year old mediocre slow as molasses 300 pounder than we do out of a 29-year old mediocre slow as molasses 280 pounder.

then you didn't watch much chiefs football last year because Browning was clearly more effective.

in fact, he got more attention than anyone except for Dalton until Allen came on.

i'm not saying Browning is great, just that he's a step up over Hicks.

milkman
04-05-2005, 07:54 PM
then you didn't watch much chiefs football last year because Browning was clearly more effective.

in fact, he got more attention than anyone except for Dalton until Allen came on.

i'm not saying Browning is great, just that he's a step up over Hicks.

I would agree 100%, except that step up comment.

Browning was far more effective than Hicks.

Browning, as you say, isn't great.
But he's a freaking monster compared to Hicks.

penchief
04-05-2005, 08:12 PM
then you didn't watch much chiefs football last year because Browning was clearly more effective.

in fact, he got more attention than anyone except for Dalton until Allen came on.

i'm not saying Browning is great, just that he's a step up over Hicks.

I agree completely with you. In fact, I'd go a step further.

I believe that Browning is the most consistent and reliable defensive lineman that we have. I also believe that he would be better at defensive end than he would be at defensive tackle.

I also believe that C. Hall would more likely back up Browning at LDE on passing situations than spell Allen at RDE.

Just my opinion.

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 07:16 AM
Hicks hasn't played as well as we'd all have liked but I don't think he gets a free pass. I think he works as hard as any player on the team and that's alot of why he's been solidified at LDE. If players like Wilkerson would beat Hicks out it might make a difference. Who's the DE on our roster who is better then Hicks? Not that that's a good thing but I just don't see the free pass.

PhilFree:arrow:

He doesn't get a free pass? Let's see, Duane Clemons, Vonnie Holliday, Jared Allen, and now Hall...

BULLSHIT.

Since he won the starting job we've brought in exactly ONE 7TH ROUND PICK (Wilkerson) to compete with him.

**** Eric Hicks.