View Full Version : AFC pro-bowl roster
12-14-2000, 11:37 AM
No Seahawks :(
12-14-2000, 11:39 AM
Tony G the only Chief. His stats are better than Jimmy Smith's....
Pro-Bowl snub to all Chiefs except Gonzo. I feel particularly bad for DA and Hicks. Grbac deserved consideration but was never going to beat out Manning, Gannon or Griese.
I guess if they're going to want to be in the pro-bowl, they'll have to do better than 6-8 in future. C'mon guys!!!
12-14-2000, 11:40 AM
Okay, now someone start a "Elvis still has no ProBowl" thread. :D Ken maybe?
12-14-2000, 11:41 AM
Joe - Sam Adams is on there. You should be proud....
12-14-2000, 11:43 AM
Bob Dole has little faith that Greasy will be playing and imagines Elvis will be named as an injury replacement.
I heard a couple of weeks ago that Grbac was 5th in the AFC in fan voting. I have still to figure out who sneaked in at 4th (not Kitna anyway :D). I presume Bob Dole is right though, and Grbac would be the first alternate.
[This message has been edited by Cormac (edited 12-14-2000).]
12-14-2000, 11:45 AM
Bledsoe didn't have much to work with, but jeez! That's a reach... :confused: I think I'd even have Testaverde ahead of him. Despite all of his INTs, at least he has led his team back.
12-14-2000, 11:47 AM
So Drew is doing his best Al Gore imitation and pulling the votes from the northeast? Sure as heck isn't a result of his stellar play this season.
12-14-2000, 11:50 AM
Joe - at least ESPN isn't drawing attention to the fact that Seattle doesn't have representation (besides Adams :) ). They pointed out 2 teams in each conference that didn't land a player on the squads and they failed to mention the Seahawks....
12-14-2000, 11:53 AM
I think it's the first time ever, that at least one Seahawk didn't make it..
[This message has been edited by Joe Seahawk (edited 12-14-2000).]
What a crock...
There are so many names there based on reputation alone...the voting system is screwed up...I think I demand a recount....Hicks has better stats that Kerse, -3 games....
No respect i tell ya, No respect.
12-14-2000, 12:04 PM
Griese?! Sam Adams?! Look at their numbers.
Even the lazy McGlockton's numbers blow Adam's away.
Apparently team records only matter in certain cases. Just ask Corey Dillon.
12-14-2000, 12:07 PM
Elvis has had a great season. He should have been named to the Pro Bowl. Just more inference that he has NOT won a playoff game and what impact it has had on him.
Besides, our season tanked too...<P>
12-14-2000, 12:09 PM
This year greenbay has improved to have 1 player in the probowl, which is a big step from NONE the previous season.
12-14-2000, 12:10 PM
Oh boy, I can just hear PackCan now!<BR>
12-14-2000, 12:16 PM
What a ****ing rip...it's all political...
12-14-2000, 12:16 PM
I can hear Mike Keck quacking from here.....
12-14-2000, 12:17 PM
It's not political. It's STUPID fans that don't know football. You should be required to pass a simple football knowledge test prior to your ballot being accepted, IMHO.
12-14-2000, 12:19 PM
I agree with a few of you here that the probowl is mostly popularity and how well your team does the the individual players and how well they have been doing.
Griese might be more deserving if he wasn't injured most the season. Kearse was not having a very impressive year. There are a few that the article mentions as well.
For Gannon's sake he better have his coach as the coach, otherwise he could look really bad.
12-14-2000, 12:22 PM
Another reason why direct popular vote doesn't work!
I'm all for coaches or players (peers) picking the ProBowl rosters...<BR>
12-14-2000, 12:22 PM
Kloster, that's what I'm saying...it's just like the Baseball Allstar game...the idiot fans vote for the names they recognize...that's what I mean by political...
12-14-2000, 12:22 PM
This is exactly why I place very little value in the Probowl.
It's not a true measure of a player's season. It's a popularity contest.
12-14-2000, 12:23 PM
Gruden can't be the coach of the AFC squad. It will be the coach of the Colts, Jets, or Steelers - whichever team comes closest but ultimately fails to reach the playoffs.
12-14-2000, 12:24 PM
We're all whining now but nobody was crying in 95 & 97, were we? Bono pro-bowl bound? Please....
12-14-2000, 12:32 PM
Kphob - Those are the coaches that do the Senior Bowl, are they not? I wouldn't think that they would do both the Senior and the Probowl.
12-14-2000, 12:39 PM
Well, I guess we can thank the coaching staff for blowing some wonderful opportunities for some of our talented players. This pi*#es me off!!! They deserve to be recognized for their hard work and talent.
12-14-2000, 12:42 PM
I thought the coaches that do the Senior bowl were the losers of the Conference Championship game. I might have it backwards though.
12-14-2000, 12:45 PM
The coaches of the Senior Bowl, are the coaches of the teams that finished with best records in each conference, but failed to make the playoffs.
That's why last's years Senior Bowl coaches were Cunningham and Seifert.
12-14-2000, 12:53 PM
Mike Anderson got screwed... over 1300 yds and 13 TDs, averaging about 5 ypc... as a 6th round rookie. Dillon??
12-14-2000, 12:56 PM
McCaffery should have beat out Moulds....
12-14-2000, 01:08 PM
Oh yeah. Thanks, Cannibal. I guess Chuckey still won't be coaching the pro-bowl 'cuz the Raiduhs ain't making the AFC Championship.... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
12-14-2000, 01:15 PM
Brad - isn't rookie of the year enough for Anderson? Besides, your team is the major reason Dillon made it instead of Anderson. Whine to the Defense.
McAfree didn't make it because america doesn't want to see white WR's in the pro-bowl. I thought we cleared that up the other day....
DA deserved a spot as much as anybody, so don't look for any sympathy around here for a WR who got jipped http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
12-14-2000, 01:22 PM
I agree with ya about DA... I was just venting.
12-14-2000, 01:49 PM
Alexander or Hicks should have made it. DA had More yards than anyone ahead of him except Rod Smith, more touchdowns than anyone but Harrison, and the biggest average catch by almost a full two yards. The only stat he was behind in was catches. how's he supposed to get as many as them when we've got Gonzo on the team (who put up better #s than some of these guys)?!
And Hicks, playing in THREE LESS GAMES put up THREE MORE sacks than Kearse! Armstrong and Taylor had good stats at least, but Hicks would be right up there if he hadn't missed 3 games.
12-14-2000, 01:52 PM
I also think Hasty and Grbac were deserving, but I'm not as mad about them not being selected.
12-14-2000, 03:08 PM
MHM - Dillon has to run with no passing game to even remotley help get the D off of him, your just bitter about the whole losing to the Bengals and him breaking the rushing record against you.
McCaffery is to much of a wuss and other players and coaches know it, so of course he didn't get it.
12-14-2000, 03:15 PM
This is BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hicks is a no and Kearse is a yes. **** that! How can they justify Griese with a spot after missing several games, but overlook Hick's unbelievable accomplishments at his position minus 3 games. This is equal to Donnie Edwards' snub in '99-'00.
What a bunch of crap!
12-14-2000, 03:16 PM
Glad to see the term 'Wuss' is still tied to Eddie...
Why didn't one of our RB's make it? Oh yea, never mind.
12-15-2000, 01:24 AM
I CAN'T believe that Chester didn't make it!
It wasn't that long ago that people around these parts were whining about the Chiefs not having a "bone crushing DE" like Kearse. Now, most of us believe that Hicks is just as good, if not better. Did I miss something? Anyway, the biggest BS noninvitee has to be McNabb. All the guy does is play ALL of the backfield spots by himself and win games. His exclusion really sickens me.
12-15-2000, 07:09 AM
How did Alstott make it to the Pro bowl with 456 yards @ a 3.6 per carry average. There must be no other decent FB's in the NFC.
It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!
12-15-2000, 08:08 AM
No way do I think Hicks is a better DE than Kearse. Kearse has just drawn more attention this year and has been contained. Hicks has better numbers in THREE less games and that's why everyone is whining about it.
12-15-2000, 11:24 AM
Elvis didnt make the pro bowl for the following reasons:
1. Player voting took place after the New England debacle. Players were laughing at Elvis.
2. Chiefs lost five in a row. This didnt help because Elvis is supposed to be the leader of this team.
3. Greise plays hurt. Elvis does not. Fans, players, coaches see this. Sportcenter shows high lights of the injured Greise making plays. They also show lowlights like Elvis five yard pass against NE.
4. Elvis isnt on high light films. He is a boring pocket passer who gets alot of his numbers in garbage time (against prevent defenses)
The most important part here is the fact that he is the QB on a losing team. If the Chiefs were 9-5, Elvis gets in. But that would have required him to play against San Diego with a bruised pinky, show up for the Raider game in Oakland, and take his head out of his crack against New England.
Pro bowls are ONE of the measures of an NFL player. Regardless of how flawed the system is.
12-15-2000, 11:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>1. Player voting took place after the New England debacle. Players were laughing at Elvis.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>2. Chiefs lost five in a row. This didnt help because Elvis is supposed to be the leader of this team.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Chiefs losing 5 in a row hurt his chances. The "leader" argument is nonsense.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>3. Greise plays hurt. Elvis does not. Fans, players, coaches see this. Sportcenter shows high lights of the injured Greise making plays. They also show lowlights like Elvis five yard pass against NE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>4. Elvis isnt on high light films. He is a boring pocket passer who gets alot of his numbers in garbage time (against prevent defenses)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, still more nonsense.
Half of a legitimate point out of four.
Pretty good for Packfan.
pleased to see improvement in this area.<BR>
12-15-2000, 11:34 AM
I agree with everything except #4. Grbac has tourched defenses in every situation this year. To say that he gets his numbers at "garbage time" simply is not accurate.
12-15-2000, 12:29 PM
Nonsense? You dont these factors affected the voting? Then you tell me why he didnt make the pro bowl.
12-15-2000, 12:32 PM
Grbac didnt torch the leagues worst defense, 49ers. The Chiefs were down 24-3 against Oakland before he put up numbers. They were losing 27-10 before he got the offense moving against NE.
12-15-2000, 12:48 PM
In a simple retort, here is why Grbac did not make the ProBowl roster:
No Running Game
Manning - James
Griese - Anderson, Gary, TD
Gannon - Wheatley, Gannon, Kaufman
12-15-2000, 12:49 PM
The Chiefs were never down 24-3 at Oakland. We were down 14-0, 14-7, 21-7, 28-7, 28-10, 35-10, 35-17, 35-24, 42-24, 42-31 & 49-31. Elvis had 221 yds passing in the 1st half & 283 in the second at Oakland.
It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!
12-15-2000, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Players were laughing at Elvis.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I said, nonsense. This doesn't even deserve discussion.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>This didnt help because Elvis is supposed to be the leader of this team.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
More nonsense. Grbac is the leader of this team whether you like him or not.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Sportcenter shows high lights of the injured Greise making plays. They also show lowlights like Elvis five yard pass against NE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, Packfan, the Pro Bowl is decided by what clips Sportcenter shows…[can you say more nonsense?].
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> He is a boring pocket passer who gets alot of his numbers in garbage time (against prevent defenses)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wrong and nonsense.
Grbac was not picked because the teams on which Gannon, Griese and Manning play are winning. Grbac was not picked because the Chiefs suck right now.
wasting precious time.<BR>
12-15-2000, 03:10 PM
Thats all you can say, nonsense? As far as your reasons for Grbac not making it, how do you explain Jeff Garcia? He made it on a losing team.
I expected more out of you than "nonsense".
12-15-2000, 06:20 PM
Garcia, also speaks to the stupidity of the process. Choosing Garcia over McNabb really just makes Gaz's point, as he was chosen because SF won more games than they were expected to win. The Chiefs performed worse than expected. Besides who really cares, if you put validity on the Pro Bowl Grbac is the likely replacement for Griese. Griese's numbers are excellent for the limited number of games he got them in, meanwhile Gannon makes it on teams winning record, and Manning makes it primarily on reputation and because he has had a satisfactory season (his team has not performed as expected either).
Packfan, as usual you just enjoy being the center of attention. Once again, like Denise you succeed, big deal.
12-15-2000, 07:16 PM
More selective response from Packfan. Didn't you see #51, Ken? Or were you too busy chirping about incorrect scores. It would be nice if you'd get your facts straight once in a while....
The reasons nobody want to offer more of a response than "Nonsense" are:
#1. Your contentions could easily be summed up in one word, "Nonsense".
#2. If one takes the time to research and type a legitimate point (such as the one in #51) - you skip right over it as though you never saw it.
We're on to you, bunky!
Now, go home and call your lawyer. America is tired of frivolous lawsuits and we don't wanna here about your whiney son not being able to wear his Pack jersey anyway!
12-16-2000, 10:46 AM
Logical correctly answered your question concerning Garcia. The 49ers overachieved, the Chiefs underachieved. Garcia goes to the Pro Bowl, Grbac does not.
As far as “nonsense” is concerned, I am not going to waste time discussing foolish statements like “players were laughing at Elvis.” I will simply dismiss them as what they are. When you post a legitimate point, I will discuss it with you. Unfortunately, the nonsense points predominated your post, leaving very little to discuss.
taking on the legitimate points, ignoring the rest<BR>
12-16-2000, 12:27 PM
Everybody, except for Chief fans, expected the record the Chiefs currently have. Chief fans think the team is super bowl caliber every year. They havent overachieved or underachieved. I didnt see any pre-season publication talk of anything more than third place for the Chiefs. They are right where they should be. Like I said, I thought you could do better than just replying with "nonsense".
I gave you guys reasons I thought that Grbac didnt make it, again:
The New England Game. Elvis got negative publicity for his boneheaded moves right before the pro bowl ballots went out
Greise plays hurt. Elvis doesnt. Say what you want, but people admire NFL players that play with injury, especially QBs.
Five game losing streak: You guys say that Elvis had nothing to do with it. Yea, right. Seven points against SF?? Pussing out against San Diego?? The New England debacle?? Not matching point for point versus Oakland?? That four out of the five loses right there. Maybe the players werent laughing at Elvis after New England, but Dan Fouts and the guys from Sports center were. And I am sure Chief fans were shaking their heads so I bet there was some snickering for the players.
C'mon Gaz, you can give a better reply than "nonsense".
12-16-2000, 12:33 PM
Packfan - Come back when you have your facts at least 51% correct. Griese plays hurt, Grbac has missed 1 game in 2 years, Griese how many?
12-17-2000, 09:19 AM
Your “points” in Reply #45 were and remain foolish nonsense. To your credit, you did start to back away from the “players are laughing at Elvis” nonsense, although you failed to redeem yourself by tossing out SportsCenter again.
We underachieved for the talent level on this team, losing to teams we clearly should have beaten [San Diego, San Francisco, New England]. That dismal performance is the reason Grbac did not make the Pro Bowl, despite his gaudy numbers.
Once again, when you post something that deserves discussion, I will discuss it with you. Your last post was simply the same foolish crap you put up before. When you stop spouting nonsense, I will stop calling it nonsense. You may expect better from me, but you are not giving me anything to work with.
waiting for some substance.<BR>
12-17-2000, 11:45 AM
"We underachieved for the talent we have on this team"
Not true. You think the Chiefs have more talent than they actually do. This is a team that won 9 games last year, lost its best defensive player, lost Reggie Tounge, and lost Joe Horn. Yet you think they are underachieving with six wins and two games left. I dont understand that. This team gotten worse in the off season, not better.
Yes, Grbac has improved, but everything else gotten worse. When you lose Derrick Thomas and Reggie Tounge and replace them with Greg Wesley and Lew Bush, you are not improving.
Thats part of why Chief fans are so devastated when the team doesnt make the playoffs. The fans always think the talent is better than it actually is.
Hopefully, you wont think this post is nonsense. I know you dont think that Lew Bush and Greg Wesley are better than Tounge and Thomas, so why do you think this team has underachieved? Why do you think it should be better than last year?
You are only as good as your record. Chiefs have proven that the last few years.
12-17-2000, 12:01 PM
Packfan - Isn't Tongue still riding the bench in Seattle?
12-18-2000, 09:06 AM
I disagree with your latest post, but it was not nonsense. You presented your opinion without the foolish side comments. As a result, I am pleased to discuss that post with you.
As morphius pointed out, Tongue is not even playing for the Seahawks. On the other hand, Wesley is turning into a very good Safety and is my candidate for Rookie of the Year for the Chiefs. We improved at Safety, IMO.
Joe Horn might have prospered under the new Chiefs passing game, but the Chiefs are going with big WRs. Morris had an amazing game against the Rams, but has disappeared on occasion. That is typical of a rookie. You can make the case that we did not improve, but our passing statistics put the lie to that assertion.
As far as Bush is concerned, he has been a disappointment. However, Maslowski is tearing up the field, bringing an intensity and explosive tackling that we have not seen for a while. We are getting sacks from our front 4 on the DL. Between Hicks, Clemmons and Maslowski, we have DT covered. We all miss DT, but our team is filling his presence on the field well enough. DT, bless him, disappeared on the road and was occasionally inconsistent at Arrowhead. Hicks, Clemmons and Maslowski, however, have not been inconsistent. Again, I see improvement in this area.
The problem with the Chiefs is the coaching staff, not the personnel on the field. Given the talent level on the team and the opponents we faced, we overachieved against the Rams and underachieved against the Titans, Chargers, 49ers and Patriots. A legitimate case can be made for underachieving against the Raiders, pointing out that the Spineless Stooge played soft zone against the best dinkdunk QB in the NFL. That cannot legitimately be laid at the feet of the players.
glad to get the nonsense out of the way.<BR>
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